Episode 1 - So You Wanna - Mount Monadnock

[00:00:28] from the Woodpecker Studio in the great state of New Hampshire. Welcome to the Sounds Like A Search And Rescue Podcast. So You Wanna, a video series where we share post-hike reflections, challenges, lessons learned, and essential insights to prepare you for your next adventure in the White Mountains. So let's get started.

[00:00:55] Stomp, this is the pilot inaugural episode of the So You Wanna Hike series from the Sounds Like A Search And Rescue Podcast.

[00:01:49] So I'm Mike and with Stomp here and we've got our special guest. We're joined by Patrick Hummel. So you wanna hike Monadnock, let's go. Let's do it, huh? Yeah. Let's do it. So, alright. So we, for the kick to show off, we figured we would scour the earth to find the world's foremost expert on

[00:02:09] Mount Monadnock. So Patrick Hummel is here. So Patrick, why don't you just spout out your resume quickly and tell people what qualifies you to provide us with some guidance about hiking Monadnock? Sure. Hardly an expert, I guess, but I would say that I'm at least a lifelong lover of Monadnock. It's a beautiful, special mountain.

[00:02:32] I did have the privilege of working at Monadnock State Park as a seasonal employee and then also spent seven years as the park manager of Monadnock State Park before eventually landing at Mount Washington. So a lover of busy mountains, I suppose.

[00:02:54] Exactly. Exactly. So we've had you on the show a couple times and we'll put in the show notes those episodes if people wanna learn a little bit more about you. But suffice to say, you can trust that Patrick has deep knowledge of Mount Monadnock.

[00:03:07] So we are going to get into details about everything that you could possibly wanna know about hiking Monadnock. So I think we'll probably start off with a little bit of history and then we'll get into the trail system. So Patrick, if I could ask you to just provide us with a little bit of background. So Mount Monadnock is sometimes referenced as Grand Monadnock. Why don't we start there? Can you give us the origin of the difference between referencing it as Mount Monadnock and Grand Monadnock?

[00:03:37] Yeah, I mean, it's obviously the same mountain, but there are other Monadnock mountains. You have Little Monadnock Mountain in Fitzwilliam as part of Rhododendron State Park. Gap Mountain, the neighboring mountain to Mount Monadnock is often or had been sometimes known at least as Gap Monadnock. You have North and South Pack Monadnock.

[00:04:05] South Pack, including Miller State Park. So the moniker of Grand Monadnock for Mount Monadnock was set to differentiate it from the other Monadnock mountains that are located in the area. There is also a Monadnock mountain in northern Vermont as well.

[00:04:27] Okay, and Monadnock is an Abenaki word, so it's Native American loosely translated to the place of the unexcelled mountain. Can you give a little bit of background about what you know about the origin of Monadnock? Yeah, I mean, that's the general exception to the loose translation of Monadnock as far as what it would mean.

[00:04:52] There's some variances of that, but that would be sort of the traditional translation of the name, the place of the unexcelled mountain. Monadnock as a mountain located down in southwestern New Hampshire is a lone standing peak, not part of any other range. Monadnock rises close to 2,000 feet above the surrounding area.

[00:05:18] The term Monadnock is also now a general geological term for a lone standing isolated peak after Mount Monadnock. And that was established by Webster's Dictionary back in 1900. And so Mount Monadnock is a Monadnock. So what's the elevation? The elevation is 3,165 feet.

[00:05:47] That's been the traditional height measurement above sea level for many decades. LIDAR recently might have pegged it somewhere at like 3,169, something like that. But I think the state park general approach, I think, is still to embrace that 3,165 elevation. Yeah. We should talk about LIDAR on the other show, Mike. It's a riot. I was changing the perception of some of these lists.

[00:06:17] Driving hikers crazy. Yeah, exactly. Poor Mount Cumsor, right? Exactly. Yeah. Well, the Adirondacks have already gone through that, right? Yeah. Yeah, we'll do a deep dive on that one stomp, but hopefully we won't mess with too many lists here. It should be mentioned that Mount Monadnock is on the 52 with a view list. Yep. Yeah. 500 highs, too, I think.

[00:06:43] Yeah, and Patrick, to get there, can you just give the listeners a little bit of an overview on the general location of the state park and what towns in New Hampshire it's located in? Yeah, physically Mount Monadnock lies within the towns of Dublin and Jaffrey, New Hampshire. Again, southwest New Hampshire, Cheshire County, also the Monadnock region, right?

[00:07:11] So the state park, so there's three landowners on Monadnock, but the entirety of the mountain is within Monadnock State Park. And in fact, as is Gap Mountain, neighboring Gap Mountain. So the state park and our Division of Parks and Recreation in New Hampshire oversee all, almost 6,000 acres of Mount Monadnock.

[00:07:37] The other two landowners on Monadnock, the majority landowners, the Society for the Protection of New Hampshire Forests, they own about 4,500 acres of Mount Monadnock. The town of Jaffrey also owns about 500 acres,

[00:07:58] but the state of New Hampshire has lease agreements for recreational management for all of the Forest Society acreage and the town of Jaffrey acreage. The state of New Hampshire owns about 1,000 acres directly. So combined, almost 6,000 acres of Mount Monadnock, even amongst the three landowners,

[00:08:19] they are all contained within Monadnock State Park and managed and directly maintained by your New Hampshire state parks. And the main parking lots that typically you'll see people cluster at to start their hike, so you have the, obviously you have the Monadnock State Park headquarters, which is where, probably say, is it fair to say about 85% of people that are hiking probably find themselves in that spot? Probably pretty close to that.

[00:08:49] So the majority of the usage is on the south side of Monadnock. You have the park headquarters located on the southeast side of the mountain. That is the main conduit up the White Dot and White Cross trails. You also have the old toll road up the southwest side of the mountain, which is probably the second most used trailhead on the mountain, which leads to the White Arrow Trail, as well as a whole network of really cool trails. But between those two trail entrances, you're probably,

[00:09:19] between the White Dot, White Cross, White Arrow, you're looking at 80% or so of the entire foot traffic on the mountain. And my recollection, so, and this may have been a change with COVID compared to when you were there, but I'm sure you're probably up to speed on this. But previously, you could reserve your parking ahead of time. It's a nominal fee. I can't remember what the details are on the fees. I'll add those into the show notes. But I think at this point now, you can also pay as a drive-up visitor for the park headquarters.

[00:09:50] Yeah, as long as there's parking available is my understanding. So, I mean, I don't think I, the last time I worked at Manadnock, I think was somewhere in the 1880s. But it's been close to 10 years since I've been there. But, yeah, especially with COVID, the approach for the park headquarters, the old toll road,

[00:10:17] if you can reserve it ahead of time, I would certainly do so. And not necessarily risk the chance for a walk-up or drive-up same day. But if you do do that, obviously, they'll let you in if they've got a spot for you. Correct, yeah. And if you go to the New Hampshire State Park's website, there's a link in there for the Manadnock State Park.

[00:10:40] And it looks like right now the fees are $15 plus a dollar for advanced reservations for a vehicle up to six occupants. So that's a day-use reservation pass that you can access. Yeah, I mean, that's a pretty good deal in the sense that when I was there, it was a $5 per adult fee. Certainly wouldn't get you up to six people for $15. So, you know, all of it goes into a good place.

[00:11:05] There's always been this sort of back and forth with some of the populace about why do we pay to hike a mountain and people looking to avoid day-use fees. But within New Hampshire and the New Hampshire State Park System, we're a self-funded agency. All of the money that you pay to enter these parks go to and directly support the park system,

[00:11:29] helping to pay for trail maintenance amenities, the mountain patrol staff that you might need to tap into if something goes wrong. So, you know, consider the money going to a very good place and a very good cause that you're paying to come in and enjoy a really beautiful day at a gorgeous location. Yes, yeah. And the park website, it does indicate that you should assume that particularly on weekend days, April to November,

[00:11:58] it's not unusual to sell out on parking. So they do recommend that reservations are made ahead of time. So just keep that in mind and we'll include that in the show notes. Yeah, always a good idea. Right. And then as far as the hiking goes, Patrick, just getting specific in there. So the trail names, they're unusual where you've got like a lot of dots and crosses and colors and things like that.

[00:12:28] Can you give a little bit of background on the history on why you'll see like white cross and white dot and red dot? A little confusing. Those interesting trail names. Yeah. A lot of the trail names on Monadnock are probably falling into one of two categories, either a trail named after a person or a landmark, or you have something like the white arrow, the white dot, white cross, red spot. And all of those would correspond to the trail blazing and the trail markings you're going to see on those trails.

[00:12:58] And what would you say are the most popular trails for people? Popular, you're looking at the three white trails, the white dot, white cross, which is often combined in the loop with the white dot used for ascent and the white cross. I would traditionally refer to as the least worst for descent. It is a steep and rugged mountain. Yeah, I was surprised. There's also the white arrow trail. It is.

[00:13:26] I think Monadnock suffers a little bit from its elevation in the sense that people see 3165. It's not even on the 4,000 footer list. How bad can it be? It's a tough mountain. It's a tough little mountain. And especially with its geographical isolation, Monadnock really does at times act and feel like a much bigger mountain than it is.

[00:13:56] And I have been certainly on that mountain at all times of the year. I think probably most times of a 24-hour day when you're dealing with search and rescue and other things. And, you know, that sense of scale hasn't changed in the sense that I now work at the summit of Mount Washington with some of the most extreme conditions that you can be in. And I've been in some really rough stuff on Monadnock.

[00:14:25] It is a mountain that I think is unfortunately sometimes underestimated. And I think that allows some people to sometimes make mistakes there. Yeah, and I think my experience with Monadnock, especially coming in from the park headquarters when you make your way up the, you know, the white dot trail and then, you know, the various options, is it does have a sense of lulling you into a feeling that, you know, probably the first half a mile or so is pretty gradual.

[00:14:55] So, I think what ends up happening is that it starts to get spicy as you get along. But you've already invested, you know, hikers who have invested time and energy to get to a place where all of a sudden it becomes a little bit more difficult. So, I think that's where people, they have sort of a, what is that, a sunk cost situation where, you know, it's kind of easy the first half mile or so, three quarters of a mile, and then it gets pretty spicy. So, can you describe if you're going to come in from the park headquarters,

[00:15:23] what's the typical experience on that lower elevation? And then at what point does it start to get spicy? If you're heading up the main highway, the white dot trail, you are looking at, you know, a little less than a mile of, you know, you got some climbing, but nothing overly significant. Once you start hitting the area of Falcon Spring, where the white dot trail junctions with Cascade Link, that's sort of, you start running into your first wall there.

[00:15:53] And it is unforgiving, really, for the most part, from there right up until the junction with White Cross Trail, where those two trails sort of intersect. The white dot continues from that junction up to the summit. You have a short break in an area known as Paradise Valley, and then after that, it is above treeline, Monadnock treeline, scrambling to the very top.

[00:16:21] So, the white dot trail, you know, you're looking at 3,165. You're looking at two miles hiking up. You kind of do the math, and if you're just doing that and not looking at the top of the lines and, you know, not taking it, you know, overly seriously, Monadnock packs a little bit more of a punch and can surprise people than one might realize. Yeah, and you're starting off around 1,400 feet of elevation and then finishing up at 3,165.

[00:16:50] So, you're talking, you know, 1,700, 1,800 feet of gain, which is on par with many of the 4,000 footers and certainly probably on the higher end of 52 with a view. So, like I said, it lulls you into a state of sort of like it's a gradual climb, and then it really starts, it punches you in the nose in the last half, for sure. It does, and you do have an above tree line climb as well, which in certain conditions,

[00:17:15] any time of the year can add that extra variability in regards to, you know, what can make a hike tougher than you want it to be. Yeah, and the two personalities of the mountain, the sort of below tree line and the, it's sort of, I would say that they're not, the trail isn't a carriage road per se, but they're wider than what you, the trail is wider than what you would see in a typical white mountain trail. Yeah.

[00:17:44] But then once you get above tree line, then I feel like it's very similar to some open, open ledges. Can you talk a little bit about the sort of the two personalities of these trail systems? Well, the more populated trails, especially ones that get larger groups that hike through on occasion, namely the white dot trail, the park staff has worked for decades to try to prevent it from growing any wider than it already is. And it can be a challenge.

[00:18:14] But, you know, beyond that, you get up into more of the forest and the middle parts of the mountain and Adnock trails are, you know, they're rugged, they're generally well marked and well signed, but they are, they are tough. But, but yeah, they are a little wider at the bottom, but that mostly has to do with the fact that,

[00:18:39] you know, if, you know, you got three school buses from, you know, I won't name names, some school that you got a bunch of middle or high schoolers, they're not exactly hiking single file up the trail. You also have that natural tendency that not just young hikers, some seasoned hikers are also guilty of that.

[00:19:03] You have sections of trail that you have lifts of your feet a little bit more beyond what you're comfortable with. You have some muddy sections. People look to avoid that. So they step to the sides of the trails to, to avoid these things thinking, well, I mean, you know, what's the big deal if I do it? And when you multiply that by a few thousand, then, then it starts impacting the edges of the trails in a negative way. Right.

[00:19:30] And then when you do get up above tree line, what we might as well talk about this. So we'll talk about the trail systems a little bit more detail, but you do get it to gets very slabby. And there's some, they do have a lot of rescue issues because what ends up happening is that, you know, especially if the rock, if the rock in the slab is getting wet, then you have a tendency to see people slipping and things like that. But the generally the, the summit area and, and pretty far below it, I don't know elevation wise how far down it goes, but you do tend to have pretty open, an open summit area.

[00:20:00] Can you talk a little bit about the history behind how that summit came to be? Um, and maybe we can even get into some of the flow of the folklore around it. Yeah. So Manadnock does have an unnatural tree line. Uh, and it's, um, you know, there, there's local lore, uh, regarding about how that happened.

[00:20:24] Uh, the most common story that is told, uh, throughout Manadnock's more recent history is that, uh, the summit was purposefully set on fire, uh, for, by the local farmers to drive out wolves that were, uh, praying in the, uh, 1800s on, uh, livestock and sheep. So, uh, we do know there's a couple of things going on with Manadnock's recorded history.

[00:20:52] The last major fire at the summit was in 1820. Um, that is sometimes the one that's circled as the, the one that, you know, farmers set, uh, couple issues with that is that for one, the last wolf in the entire Manadnock region, the last wolf was killed in the winter of 1820. Uh, so the, the population had already been decimated by that point.

[00:21:20] And, and the last, uh, wolf, um, being killed, uh, back then by the farmers is, is also documented. It was a, a nine day search, uh, for this last wolf. And at one point, I think three days in, uh, the, the, uh, uh, hunting party had gone to sleep at a farmer's house in Fitzwilliam. And the wolf had come down and killed some of the livestock, but didn't, um, end up even eating them.

[00:21:49] It was almost as if, uh, the wolf was, uh, you know, engaged in, you know, a little bit of payback with these farmers. But, um, the farmers did actually catch up to him in the, um, in a, in a field, uh, at the south side of the mountain. And, uh, you know, sadly the, the wolf was killed. You understand what was going on paraded through town.

[00:22:12] And, but that's, you know, we're talking about 1820 at that point, there's another well-documented fire at the summit around 1800, uh, as well. Um, so you have a couple of fires going on, but, uh, one of the things, uh, to note with that, a couple of things with the history.

[00:22:31] First, uh, you go back to 1725, uh, that is the first recorded ascent of Manadnock on July 31st by a guy named, uh, Captain Samuel Willard and 14 of his, uh, Rangers. They were a couple of weeks into, uh, a hunt, let's say, or search for, uh, Native Americans when they had camped on the top of the mountain.

[00:23:00] It's noted in Willard's journals in 1725 that while they were at the summit, uh, he noted that he saw 26 ponds and, uh, Lake Winnipesaukee and a few other mountain peaks. Uh, you have to wonder, uh, with that kind of, uh, list of, uh, and count from, from Willard in 1725 was the summit totally forested at that point. I would say pretty unlikely.

[00:23:26] Uh, but one of the other stories that really punches a hole in that was actually in 1780. So in that year, uh, a fella named John, uh, not John, excuse me, James Winthrop, uh, in 1780, he took the first height measurement of Manadnock, uh, with a barometer. Uh, his recording, uh, was at 3,254 feet. So, uh, that's, that's the first summit elevation recording.

[00:23:53] But, uh, at that visit in 1780, Winthrop had noted bare rock at the summit. Uh, and he not only noted bare rock, but he went to the length of recording the elevation of what he called the upper edge of the wood, which I would translate that to being what was treeline, uh, and mentioning evidence of fires back then in 1780.

[00:24:16] Uh, and then in 1792, Jeremy Belknap, uh, who is the kind of the first historian in New Hampshire, uh, in 1792, he wrote about Manadnock, uh, and wrote quote, quote, its summit is a bald rock, uh, on some parts of it are large piles of broken rocks. And on the sides are some appearances of the explosion of subterraneous fires.

[00:24:39] So you have record of, of Manadnock likely also having a bald summit, uh, throughout the 1700s as well before those first couple fires. That wolf story, um, by the way, we can thank Henry David Thoreau for, uh, Thoreau mentioned it in his journals, uh, that he'd heard from a gentleman, I think in Peterborough, as he was passing through that town, uh, that this was, uh, a story about the wolves and the farmers set in fire.

[00:25:07] And, um, Thoreau just mentioned it as a, yeah, this is what this guy told me, uh, that he had heard from, you know, uh, his uncle's cousin's girlfriend, you know, whatever it might be. But, um, I think because it ended up in Thoreau's journals and Thoreau wrote it, I think that story ended up carrying a little bit more weight, uh, over time and sort of got accepted by a lot of locals and other people familiar with Manadnock.

[00:25:35] It's sort of an assumption as to what happened, but I would have to think that, uh, in, in the, um, 1800s, if, if farmers were still struggling with wolves and the threat to the population of their livestock, uh, rather than setting fire to the mountain, uh, where they were holed up, uh, which wouldn't solve the problem, but would simply disperse those wolves. Um, they would hunt or trap them and, and, you know, that's exactly what they did. So, yeah, yeah.

[00:26:05] It sounds like it's just as likely that, you know, it's, it's a, it's a Manadnock that probably got hit by, you know, lightning strikes and it's just as likely that fires could have occurred because of that. Yep. Yeah. And the local farmers did set fires to some of the slopes when they were trying to clear them. That was how they cleared land back then.

[00:26:21] So it's not as if fires and, and Manadnock or anything in the region wasn't occurring, but, you know, the whole story about this wolves, uh, you know, hold up on the mountain and, and all of the brush and, and the farmers setting fire to them to drive them out. It seems, I don't know. It just seems unlikely. It seems like a history with fire with this mountain. Can you talk about the halfway house hotel and that history with fire? Yeah.

[00:26:49] Well, it's like, what's the story with Manadnock and fire? Well, it's not just Manadnock. I mean, look at fires at, at any of the grand hotels that sprung up in New Hampshire and the white mountains, certainly. And, uh, the summit of Mount Washington where I am now certainly has had its own history with fires.

[00:27:07] So I think it's just more part of, you know, what happens over time, but the halfway house, uh, uh, is a, um, hotel originally was called the mountain house, uh, and eventually became the halfway house as a hotel. There wasn't, uh, people seeking that as some kind of rehab center, but, um, the, uh, the halfway house hotel had a few iterations. Over time, uh, had a history of fires.

[00:27:35] The, the halfway house hotel last, last burned down in, uh, 1954. Uh, it was located on the Southwest side of the mountain and, um, you can find it at the top or the site anyway, at the top of the old toll road at the base of the, uh, white arrow trail. Um, there is still, uh, um, there's a, uh, an open kind of space there. It's got a kind of a nice view both of the summit and off to the West.

[00:28:03] Uh, but there is, uh, some, um, chiseling in the rocks, uh, on the site, uh, on a slab, um, just to the edge of the woods on the site that notates the, the history of the hotel there. Uh, and, um, yeah. So the, the 1954, it was in April, but it burned down for the last time. Uh, and, um, just unfortunate, a lot of history was, was also lost with that fire.

[00:28:29] The, the hotel had been visited by, um, many notable people, including, uh, some former presidents and Ralph Waldo Emerson. They had a guest log in there, uh, and all of that was lost in the fire. Can you talk about the impact of the halfway house on the trail system from the old toll road? So it's really, it, it, it, it's, uh, just looking at a map, it's a bit chaotic. Talk a little bit about that. Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up.

[00:28:59] Um, I'm glad you noticed that if you look at a trail map of Mount Manadnock, uh, you will see the Southwest side of the mountain has a spider web of trails. Uh, and, uh, that doesn't really exist on a lot of other corners. And yes, all of that is a result of, of the hotel being there. And the fact that, uh, the people who stayed at that hotel, especially through the late 1800s and into the early 1900s, a favorite pastime was blazing new trails.

[00:29:27] And, uh, there's even more trails that existed than what is still present today. Um, giving them fun names, romantic names. Uh, so there is a cool, uh, network of trails that is still over there and, and the Southwest side of Manadnock, um, like a lot of other corners. There's some really cool parts of that mountain that I find a lot of people kind of miss. Uh, you know, the white dot, the white cross trail, great introductions to, to Manadnock.

[00:29:57] The white arrow trail, also a fine introduction to the mountain. Also the oldest trail on the mountain, uh, the white arrow. But, um, there's a lot of other cool corners and places on Manadnock. I think a lot of people miss, uh, just not, um, being part of the main trail system necessarily. And, and maybe not even, you know, people kind of might get overwhelmed. You get, I think almost 40 miles of hiking trails around 6,000 acres.

[00:30:25] And it can be a little overwhelming trying to decide to what, what trails to do. So the people stick with the main ones and there's nothing wrong with that. But if people want to get out and explore a little bit more of the quiet corners of Manadnock, the mountain has a lot to offer. Yeah. And I guess we're making our way around, um, clockwise here. So, uh, the next up would be the, the Dublin trailhead, which is on the, the northern side of the mountain, correct? It is. Yeah.

[00:30:55] So the Dublin trail is, um, you know, I, when talking about hiking, I often do this at Mount Washington. I had it a little bit at Manadnock. I don't like using the E word, uh, being easy. Um, that's all subjective. And, uh, as people ask, what's the easiest trail? Um, well, maybe the least worst, least difficult, whatever it might be, but you want to just tell people what their, what the trails characteristics are and let them decide, uh, cause what's easy

[00:31:24] and what's not as different and, and, uh, changes depending on who you are. The Dublin trail, though, I would say a lot of people, you know, uh, refer to that as probably one of the least challenging trails on the mountain. Uh, and that's not to say that it's easy necessarily. Uh, but that trail that climbs up the north side, uh, is found off of old Troy road, which is, um, a back country dirt road that leads to that trail entrance.

[00:31:51] I also, um, wouldn't dare drive down there in spring mud season, which is going to be coming up. Um, in fact, the road is usually closed. Uh, so I would wait for, for that road to either open or just wait to get into firmer conditions. I kid you not. Um, I've dealt with situations back there where, uh, a person tried to drive back on old Troy road, got stuck, tow truck came out, tow truck got stuck.

[00:32:18] And now you got a tow truck pulling a tow truck out before you can get the car out. So it can get pretty sloppy. Uh, but during the summer season and, uh, definitely, uh, the Dublin trail is, is a great trail and, um, leads you right up and down. It is also an older trail on, um, Manadnock as well. Uh, the Dublin trail, um, dates back to gosh.

[00:32:48] Oh, it's like 1840. That is. Yeah, that is right. 1840. Is that what I wrote in my notes? Yeah. That's what you got in the notes there. I'm glad I shared those with you guy. Yeah. Right. So the Dublin trail dates back to 1840. So it's still one of the oldest trails on the mountain. Uh, it was originally known as the darling trail, uh, because, uh, it was blazed by a gentleman

[00:33:15] named Luther darling who, who lived at the base of the trail. Um, it eventually became the farmer trail, which, uh, some people mistakenly thought it was some sort of nod to some Yankee farmer. Um, no, the, the farmer family bought it. So at that point, William Farmer took over the house at the base there in 1878. And then eventually the trail became the Dublin trail, but, uh, it's a really nice trail.

[00:33:41] It, uh, junctions and joins below the summit, um, with the Marlboro trail. Uh, I do have, I do have a fun story. Uh, I don't know how fun it is. I guess I have a story about that side. Okay. Uh, that I'll just share with you here. Um, we had, uh, rescued a couple of young men who had gotten to the, the bottom of the

[00:34:05] Dublin trail, uh, at one point they had started though on the Southwest side on the old toll road. So they ended up on the North side of the mountain after climbing the, uh, Southwest side of the mountain, uh, at found themselves at the trailhead with not being where they needed to be and not knowing how to get around the mountain. So, uh, I eventually, uh, got that call, responded, uh, picked these two young men up and we got

[00:34:34] to conversing and I just sort of wanted to find out how their hike went, what happened to lead them to being on the wrong trail. Uh, weather certainly wasn't a factor in this. They left the summit and where the Dublin and Marlboro trails merge, uh, there are markings, uh, at the summit and down some of the beginnings on the rocks.

[00:34:58] Uh, there's a, the letter D, a slash and a letter M notating Dublin and Marlboro before the two trails, uh, diverge from one another at Jim Jim's junction, uh, named for, uh, our law staff member, Jim Johnson, a long time volunteer. Um, these two young men told me that they thought the D and the M stood for down mountain. Wow.

[00:35:28] Uh, I really, I had to really try assumption hard not to laugh. I do think I, I, uh, was not able to resist asking them if they saw UM markings while they ascended for the up mountain trail. But yeah, I mean, this is what happens when you don't have a trail map and you're not really thinking things through, but Hey, all three of us were young teenage boys and I don't think any of us were geniuses back then.

[00:35:58] Uh, arguably now, right. Right. And they learned, they learned, um, they learned about trail trail signs from that. So they did. And also, yeah, have a map, uh, a paper map, please. Um, yeah. Yeah. Especially with Monadnock. I mean, it is a spider web. Um, and then as you make your way around, uh, so if we leave the Dublin trailhead and we make our way, um, a little bit, you know, continuing in the North side, there's Pompeli,

[00:36:23] Pompeli trailhead, um, which would close out, I think the, the, the more popular trail areas, right? Yeah. I mean, Pompeli is a great trail. It's the longest trail on the mountain. It dates back to 1884. He got a lot of really cool old trails on, on the mountain still in use and existence. Um, the Pompeli trail straight shot, uh, up and down. Uh, it does begin in, uh, on private land. And also there's no formal parking area for the Pompeli trail.

[00:36:50] There's some, uh, very limited, uh, sort of trail side road parking. Um, but, uh, you know, my advice to people hiking the Pompeli trail or aspiring to the Pompeli trail is, uh, just have a plan B hike. Um, if you get to the Pompeli trail and very clearly there's not any parking available to you, uh, and I wouldn't push your luck or your limits parking on the roadside down there. Um, just, just have a backup plan.

[00:37:19] Say, I have, if, if, if Pompeli parking's an issue, let's, you know, head to the Dublin trail, let's head down to the park headquarters or Gilson pond. Just, just, just have a plan B, um, with Pompeli. Cause it, cause the parking is, um, there's, there's not a lot of it there. And as far as the, um, the conditions of those trails, is it a similar, um, assumption to,

[00:37:43] um, coming from the, the park headquarters, you're going to, um, experience sort of a typical sort of gradual climb. And then eventually you'll, you'll get above tree line and then things tend to get a little bit steeper. Yeah. You got a four and a half miles. Uh, Pompeli is, which from an ad hoc length, I mean, you're talking about a trail that's twice as long as most of the other main trails, uh, that head straight up to the summit. So it has a lot of diversity in it. You have some ups and downs.

[00:38:13] You have, uh, a lot of woods to hike through. Uh, it really, for me, the, I love the Pompeli trail, uh, but the most interesting parts of the Pompeli trail to me really start around the Cascade Link junction. Um, and, uh, there's certainly some great parts of the trail and, uh, some things to see below that junction. But if you wanted to like nail the best parts of the Pompeli trail, uh, without having to

[00:38:41] do the entire length, the white dot Cascade Link Pompeli, uh, connection to go up to the summit, um, as not direct as it is, it is, uh, one of my favorite routes on the mountain. Yeah. And I think the benefit of the Pompeli side of the mountain from my perspective is that, you know, certainly you want to make your way to the summit, but I feel like, um, there's,

[00:39:07] there's many different options as you approach, you know, you get to around 2,800 feet to 3,000 feet. There's so many ledges and options for you to just sort of park down, have lunch. You're not going to deal, even though, you know, the summit will tend to get really crowded from my perspective. I think the views out to the, uh, the East where you can look out and, you know, on a clear day, you can see a lot of the summits, um, in, in Southern New Hampshire.

[00:39:34] I think that that view and the fact that you can avoid the crowds pretty easily from the Pompeli side to me, I think that's sort of my pick of, um, of where I like to hang out. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well put the, uh, climb up the North Ridge, uh, you really get some benefits on, on Monadnock on, on along that ridgeline that you don't get in a lot of places on the mountain in the sense that, um, those areas, uh, that offer views are, are pretty sweeping both to

[00:40:03] the North, South, the East, um, the approach and then the view of the summit, as you work your way along the North Ridge is, is pretty spectacular as well. And as you mentioned the, the summit of course, being where everyone wants to be, uh, you know, I've, I've done hikes up the Pompeli trail where I sort of probably like you treated some of those upper ledges before you start getting into the, uh, busyness of the summit as being sort of my summit in the sense that this is where I'm going to hang out.

[00:40:32] This is where I'm going to take the mountain in. Uh, this is where I'm going to have my, my lunch or my snack. And then, uh, if I do have aspirations or plans to hit the summit or my hiking route takes me over the summit, um, I'm sort of getting up there and, and not, and kind of passing through in a, in a way. Um, so it does allow you to have that flexibility if, uh, any crowding or, or, uh, population at

[00:40:57] the summit itself is some kind of deterrent, uh, or taking away from, uh, what you're looking for in your day on the mountain. Right. And then, um, from your perspective, aside from what we just talked about for Pompeli, any other big, um, I guess, lower elevation viewpoints, outlooks, outcrop? I mean, I know there's a ton of them, but what stands out to you? I used to keep a lot of this close to the vest. Uh, yeah, you don't have to give away your, your really top secrets, but I'm at the top

[00:41:27] of Mount Washington now, so I don't mind spoiling stuff for people. No, no, some of them, I mean, I tell you, you can, you can have a full amazing day on Manadoc without ever touching that summit. And that is one of the really great things about that mountain. Uh, the whole Pompeli, uh, Pompeli Ridge, Pompeli Trail, it's the North Ridge, uh, for the record, uh, that, uh, section offers so many pockets and places.

[00:41:53] Um, some other really great spots for people to consider checking out, uh, Bald Rock. Is a favorite of mine, uh, on the south face of the mountain. Uh, the Cliff Walk Trail, um, leads up and over that. Uh, you can get there through the park headquarters by connecting through the Parker Trail, the Lost Farm Trail. Um, and then, uh, the Smith Connecting Trail that leaves from there is also pretty spectacular.

[00:42:18] But, uh, Bald Rock is, is really, uh, beautiful, special spot on the mountain. Monta Rosa is also, uh, a really nice spot, uh, that's on the southwest side at the top of the Ferry Spring Trail. Uh, Monta Rosa, uh, has a weather vane on it. Still there. Um, not the original, of course, but the weather vane was placed on Monta Rosa, which connects

[00:42:45] back to the halfway house, uh, so that, um, at the hotels, uh, you could look up to Monta Rosa and see which direction the wind was, was blowing. And the hotel obviously gone since 1954 and wasn't in use before that. But, um, the weather vane still persists and it's a nice little quiet pocket and some really cool trails between Ferry Spring, the Monta Rosa Trail, uh, the Smith Summit Trail that leaves from there is one of my favorites.

[00:43:14] Uh, a lot of cool, cool corners of the mountain. Um, Marlboro Trail also offers, uh, a couple of really cool, uh, ledges that you can get some viewpoints and kind of take in things without having, uh, the circus of the summit around you. Got it. And then the, um, as far as the, uh, kind of offbeat trails for me, I, I mean, my, what

[00:43:42] I will tell you is I typically, when I've hiked Montmanadnock, I prefer to, I'll start at the state park, uh, parking lot and then, uh, go up to the, you know, the main trail and then cut over to, uh, let me make sure I get the name right here. This is Cascade Link that you had talked about. And then from Cascade Link, I think my advice to people that if you're sort of, if you like the scrambles and you like the challenging hikes that you'll get on, uh, uh, some of

[00:44:10] the, the higher peaks in Mount Washington, the Spelman Trail, well, it's not a long section. It's probably, and maybe there's some other sections that I'm not familiar with, but for me, for rock scrambles, if you like that feel, then I think the Spelman Trail probably offers the best option on the mountain for that. It does. Yeah. The Spelman sometimes is mistakenly called the steepest trail on the mountain, which end to end it isn't. Um, I think the Marlboro Trail would be, but, but the Spelman has the steepest section of trail on Montanac.

[00:44:39] Uh, I would not recommend, uh, any, uh, people descend on Spelman. Um, you can do it. It's just, it's not, you're, you're more prone to, uh, probably falling, slipping, and it's just not a good time anyway. Um, but the Spelman on the way up steepest section of trail, it's a cool trail.

[00:45:02] Uh, and the red spot trail also is pretty tough, uh, which runs parallel off of Cascade Link, uh, parallel to the, um, Spelman Trail junctions with the Pumpelli Trail a little bit below the summit, uh, the red spot trail. Um, that can be, uh, that, that can be a tough little scramble as well going up there. Yeah. And I like those because it gives you the option. You don't have to stress out about the parking situation of Pumpelli.

[00:45:30] You can reserve your parking at the headquarters and then, um, you sort of avoid the crowd as you cut over to Cascade Link. Um, and then it also gives you the benefit of exploring though, that, uh, that North Ridge where you can sort of take your time and avoid the, uh, the, so for me, it's like, if you're looking to avoid the crowd, it is a little bit more work on Spelman or red spot. But for me, I, I, I like that route. Yeah. I mean, they're great trails. They're just, you know, they're work. Monaddox work. It's not an easy day.

[00:45:59] Uh, headquarters though, man, you have, yeah, some people think, you know, that's, it's too busy over there. Uh, yeah, that's where a lot of people are parking, but a lot of people are just heading up the dot and the cross. Uh, you have an outlet at the park headquarters, uh, to the complete, uh, east and, and, and northeastern side of the mountain with the Pumpelli trail, plus a Spelman red spot and other trails up the east side of the mountain, uh, via the connection with Cascade Link.

[00:46:29] You have an outlet through the Parker trail, lost farm trail, cliff walk, which is, uh, absolutely one of my favorite trails to the complete, um, south side of the mountain. So parking at park headquarters, um, especially if you're able to reserve ahead of time, uh, has the benefits of peace of mind, uh, in advance that you got your spot when you roll in there. And then, uh, it gives you so many different options to build out a really fulfilling, uh, awesome day on the mountain.

[00:46:57] Uh, it has a lot of benefits to it. Yeah. And there is a culture of, um, you know, there's, there's frequent people that frequently hike it. Uh, I think there's been gentlemen that have like done like, you know, I've hiked it 300 days in a row and there's the option for you to red line or trace all the trails as well. So, uh, there's, there's certainly some challenges there's you can make up your own list to pursue Monadnard, but there's miles and miles of trails there. There is. Yeah. Almost 40 miles of hiking trails.

[00:47:23] It also is a really cool, really great, uh, Nordic ski network, uh, that a lot of people don't really know about or utilize that they're ungroomed trails of course, but, uh, there is a great network, uh, nestled in the woods between the park headquarters area and Gilson pond, um, to expand your ability to explore Monadnard woods and, uh, spend some time on a really special mountain. So it offers a lot of variety.

[00:47:49] Uh, Monadnard also offers year round camping, uh, which is great. So you can't camp on the mountain. Uh, that is certainly not permissible. Uh, but the, there is a campground, a really great campground at Gilson pond, uh, that includes some remote sites. And then in the off season in the winter months, uh, there's camping availability. Also at the park headquarters area, the summertime it's more used for, uh, group camping, uh,

[00:48:16] where the family camping is centered at Gilson pond on, on the East side. Uh, but in the winter months, you can also camp at the base of the mountain at the park headquarters area. And it offers some variety. It's one of the only places in the state park system that offers that. Yeah. And there is an option for, uh, there is a through, through hiking trail that, uh, begins, uh, on the Northern side, uh, which is the Monadnard Sunapee Greenway that I think starts

[00:48:43] north of the Dublin trailhead and then makes its way over Monadnard. And I would assume that maybe some of the through hikers take advantage of the camping, um, on their, you know, first day or so after they start their hike, if they're going that way. Sure. Yeah, actually Monadnard's at the junction of two long distance trails. It's at the Southern terminus of the Monadnard Sunapee Greenway trail, which you just mentioned, uh, which, you know, is really the Southern terminus is actually the summit, but, uh, incorporates the Dublin trail as part of the Monadnard Sunapee Greenway trail.

[00:49:12] It's also the Metacomet Monadnard trail, which comes up through Massachusetts and Monad, Mount Monadnard, the Northern terminus of the Metacomet Monadnard trail, uh, comes up and over Gap Mountain, um, really, uh, again, I love Gap. Um, it's, uh, uh, another great little network of trails and a great viewpoint, um, and, uh, crosses over Gap Mountain up the Royce trail and, uh, up to the summit of Mount Monadnard.

[00:49:38] So you have two long distance hiking trails sort of converging, um, with Monadnard being either the Southern or Northern terminus, depending on the trail. Okay. And then, um, you're going to have to, we, we do have Patrick, um, a lot of, uh, animal lovers. We have dog lovers that love to go hiking with their dogs. So I'm going to ask you to do the difficult, um, act of explaining why our, our, even though we know that most of everybody's dogs

[00:50:05] are perfect and well-behaved, there is a prohibition from, uh, from dogs being allowed to hike on Monadnard. Is that correct? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, um, you know, I, And this was put in before you had taken responsibility for management of the park. So I don't want anybody blaming you exactly. Yeah, no, I, I, so I've been working with New Hampshire state parks for over 20 years and getting yelled at by people is something that doesn't faze me so much anymore. But what helped

[00:50:34] with that are people rolling up to Mount Monadnard with dogs and, uh, dressing me down that they just drove two and a half hours, not doing any research. Um, and I had to turn them around and, but we always explored alternatives with them in the region. So the, the trip wasn't wasted. Uh, so yes, it's correct. Uh, pets are not allowed on Mount Monadnard. This has been the case since the Reagan administration, not that they were at fault, but just in regards to a timeline,

[00:51:02] it's been since 1986. Uh, I've been waiting for my Mets to win a world series since then. It's a long time. And, uh, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a dog guy. Uh, I grew up with dogs. A lot of people who've worked at Monadnard over the years are, or, or, you know, have dogs at home. Um, it's not that anyone has a fault with a dog. Um, we know your dog, your dog is amazing. And, uh, we all love your dog,

[00:51:30] but your dog's not special. And, uh, there's rules and, and there's rules in place to protect the mountain. Um, that's why it's there. It's not to take away from people's experience or deprive them of a hike with their dog. Uh, in fact, you have almost the entire rest of the state to hike with your dog, but that dog's one place that it's not allowed. Hasn't been permitted since 1986. And there's a few reasons for that. Um, so the last year they were allowed, I think there was,

[00:51:57] I don't know, 6,000, 7,000 dogs, something like that on, on Monadnard. Uh, and there's issues that come with that. There's sanitation issues that, that were cropping up. Um, the prohibition, uh, is also there for some wildlife protection. Um, back when dogs were allowed, they were often chasing wildlife, uh, occasionally, um, to death. And, and even the presence of dogs had a disruptive effect on wildlife. Um, since a lot of wild animals would avoid areas that are frequented

[00:52:26] by dogs. Uh, we were seeing damages to the alpine bogs. Um, there's a lot of rare vegetation on Monadnard as well. People may not realize, and, um, you know, dogs were often negatively impacting, um, some of the, the natural, uh, rare plant life on the mountain. Um, there was noise issues with, you know, a dozen dogs on the summit at one day. Uh, still, yeah, of course. So a couple hundred

[00:52:54] people may, you may say that's the same thing, but yeah, there's one factor there with some of the dogs, uh, safety factors, dogs, biting people, including children, um, leashes, especially on trails like Monadnard that are steep, rocky and rugged, uh, dogs pulling owners and causing, um, accidents, rescues, uh, believe me. So Monadnard staff probably engages in more backcountry

[00:53:18] search and rescue than any other mountain. Uh, I would say probably in New England, a lot of rescues and other responses happen that are not in the news. Um, a lot more of it occurs than you think. Uh, dogs were sometimes, uh, causing some of those as well. Um, you know, dogs negatively interacting with one another. It was just a lot. The, the number one complaint from people on the

[00:53:45] mountain, uh, word was dog related. So in 19, well, 85 and enacting, uh, enforced the 1986, the, the state parks, um, decided that they would prohibit dogs on the mountain. Uh, it's been that way continues to be that way. Um, and believe me, like I said, I'm a dog lover. Uh, I've grew up with dogs and, um, I get it, but for the mountain, the mountain experience and, you know, for the

[00:54:12] staff that are there and, and certainly for the mountains protection, um, we just ask if you're coming, just, just leave the dog at home, leave the dog with somebody else, uh, and, and come and enjoy the mountain. Um, yeah, there's literally hundreds of mountains that you're, you're free to take your dog on. This is sort of one and it's unique. Like it sounds to me like, you know, it's a unique situation because it's the second most frequently hiked mountain in the world. And the, the, the crowd, I added that to the script actually, you want to touch upon that

[00:54:41] Patrick while we're here? As far as the, the mountain most climbed. Well, I don't want to take away first from the dog thing. So, um, yeah, we again, plead with you guys. We, you know, your dogs are awesome. I, I have the benefit of saying hello to a lot of dogs on Mount Washington, uh, who come up to the summit, can't come in the building, but I love seeing the dogs outside. Um, it has nothing to, it's, it's not personal. It's just, we're trying to protect a very special mountain. That's very fragile. And, and we struggle with balancing the, the human use on

[00:55:11] Manadnock, let alone adding the dogs in. So, um, beyond that. So yeah, Manadnock's moniker of being one of the most hiked mountains in the world. Um, there's one thing I can, I can promise you. I, I, you can mark my words. You can quote me on this. Mount Manadnock is, it is the most hiked

[00:55:34] mountain in Jaffray, New Hampshire. Okay. Perhaps in all of Cheshire County, I might even say, uh, beyond that, who, who knows? Manadnock is, is, uh, often compared with Mount Fuji. It has been, uh, over time in regards to how either busy it is, uh, or even its draw. The first recorded comparison, get this, the first recorded comparison between Mount Manadnock and Mount Fuji,

[00:56:04] of course, uh, in Japan was made in 1880, uh, when a correspondent had called Manadnock, the Mecca of Southern New Hampshire, and to its inhabitants, uh, what Mount Fuji is to the Japanese. Um, so these two mountains have been kind of locked together since 1880 in regards to, uh,

[00:56:25] comparisons in, in, in one form or another. Um, what, what, what was uncovered as decades of, uh, debate about the most hiked mountain in the world? Is it Manadnock? Is it Fuji? Uh, all of it was put not, is it Mount Major? Well, it could be at this point. Mount Major is certainly got its fair share

[00:56:51] of visitation, but all of, all of it can be tabled in the sense that at least we know Mount Tai, uh, T-A-I, Mount Tai in China, uh, it blows Manadnock and Fuji out of the water. So, uh, we can put all that to rest. It's also, you know, kind of subjective. There were some complaints, I'm going to say complaints, but there were people who, you know, Fuji was ahead of Manadnock and then Fuji put, I think a tram or something in. And then there was people who saying, oh, well that doesn't count.

[00:57:21] Manadnock has more climbers. Uh, there's any kind of way to quantify it, but, uh, yeah. So I don't know. Uh, we know Mount Major's got a ton of hikers. We have, uh, a lot of mountains that they got a lot of people on it. Mount Washington's got, uh, certainly it's fair share. And, and, in the upper echelon of numbers, uh, comparable, not up to, but in the sphere of even Manadnock. So,

[00:57:48] um, yeah, yeah. Who, who knows? But we can say that Manadnock is, you know, one of the most hiked mountains in the world. One of the most hiked mountains in the world could be the most hiked mountain in the U S or even the Western hemisphere. But, um, you know, a lot of this came, uh, we can blame one of my predecessors, uh, inadvertently Charlie Royce, uh, who I, um, Charlie managed

[00:58:17] Manadnock from 1955, I think to 1965. Wonderful man. He has since passed. Um, but I got to spend some time with Charlie and his lovely wife, Anne at their home at the base of Manadnock and, um, talking a lot about the mountain. Charlie, at some point, you know, he was thinking about how busy the mountain was on a Columbus day weekend, which is, uh, uh, a rough weekend if you're, uh,

[00:58:42] employed there. And, um, you know, he, he called around to some other places in the U S, uh, some other mountains. And he was finding that some of their annual visitation estimates were what Manadnock was experiencing on a Columbus day weekend. And, um, he just said, you know, I think Manadnock might be one of the most climbed mountains in the U S or even the world. Uh, but it wasn't anything that he,

[00:59:12] you know, stated with any fact. Uh, but Charlie was right, you know, Manadnock's well traversed, um, the Manadnock chamber of commerce sort of took that and ran with it and, you know, started referring to Manadnock as the most hiked mountain in the U S and, and then the debate between Manadnock and Fuji got kicked up again. So, uh, we, we just know. Once the marketing pipeline gets a hold of something, then it just, it can, it can get around the world before you can get your pants on.

[00:59:42] Exactly. So took on a life of its own. Um, I don't know. I can tell you from both being a, a staff member there, uh, and also being responsible for that park as the park manager. Um, there are days where Manadnock sure as heck feels like the most hiked mountain in the world, uh, just being so inundated, uh, at that park. But, um, yeah, so another common thing, Manadnock most hiked mountain

[01:00:11] in the U S most hiked in the world, second most in the world, uh, who the hell knows? Um, but, uh, it's well loved. I can assure you that. And Manadnock's not short on visitations. So. Yeah. And I, and I would guess it's a very common story. Like you'll have people that probably, you know, maybe they'll go in that school group or they'll go on a hike with, uh, you know, the boy Scouts or some other group and they get exposed to the mountain as a

[01:00:40] young person and that memory sticks with them. And maybe they go out hiking again. They go, Oh, you know what? I remember going hiking when I was a kid in Manadnock. And then sure enough, like, you know, that may be that memory may just push somebody to say like, let's go out and, and try some other hikes. And I think that it's probably responsible for, um, peaking the, the curiosity and the interest of a lot of young people that eventually go on to sort of embrace

[01:01:05] their love of the outdoors. That's, I mean, you're speaking to me. That's exactly it. You know, I grew up not with the upbringing in the outdoors. I grew up in Jaffrey in the shadow of Manadnock. It drew my eye, uh, from the time I was a young child and, you know, I, I didn't have anyone to show me the ropes. I just went out and started hiking it and made a lot of mistakes. Manadnock's

[01:01:31] a forgiving mountain. Um, not that people shouldn't be well-prepared, but it's a good training ground, you know, for, you know, especially, uh, a young, not so bright teenager like myself to sort of kind of get into hiking without really having anyone to tell you what you should be doing. And, uh, I came home often from Manadnock going, ah, you know, this maybe Doc Martens aren't the

[01:01:57] footwear. Uh, you know, maybe I should have more water. Maybe I need to be more aware of the daylight, you know? Uh, so it allowed me, Manadnock really did allow me to make enough rookie mistakes. And I was aware enough to recognize them and learn from them. When I started working at Manadnock, uh, I was observant to the people who I worked with, uh, especially some of the old timers,

[01:02:25] uh, whether they were people who worked at the park or, or hikers, regular hikers who had been on Manadnock for a long time, observing, listening. Um, the other benefit I had that most others don't is, uh, as I mentioned, that search and rescue component, I learned a lot from other people's mistakes, uh, found out, you know, through some of these rescues, some of these responses, what went

[01:02:47] wrong, um, and went, Oh, good to know. Ah, okay. Uh, something I need to be aware of here. Uh, the mountain's a really great teacher. And, uh, it it's, it's been one of my greatest teachers. It, it, I can't even begin to tell you how much that mountain means to me and how impactful it's been. It's really shaped my life and I wouldn't be where I'm at today. I would not be

[01:03:12] working and managing the summit of Mount Washington if it wasn't, uh, for the lessons and the time I spent on, on Manadnock. I have everything to thank for that mountain. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's a lovely mountain. And the nice thing about it too, is that there's plenty of, um, post hike options for food and drink and things like that. We won't get into the details on that, but I'll include those in the show notes for people. So it is, I, I, my approach to Manadnock

[01:03:40] has always been that it's my Friday afternoon hike. So if I can get out of work early at two, three o'clock in the, in the summertime, when I have a lot of daylight left, um, if I can get on trail by three o'clock, take my time and get down, you know, just before sunset and then go out with, you know, whoever I'm hiking with and go grab dinner somewhere or grab a drink. It's, it's really, uh, to me, it's, it's a great, uh, great way to, uh, to cap off a, a work week.

[01:04:07] It's one of Manadnock's appeals. You know, that mountain is within a day's drive of so many people and, uh, a lot of people, um, like you just mentioned, you can go hike Manadnock and still be home in time for dinner, you know, with getting a full day on a mountain, getting a full hiking day. And, and, um, that's always been one of the appeals to the mountain. In addition to the mountain itself, it's 360 degree panoramic views. And of course, all of the things that have drawn

[01:04:35] people to the mountain, um, whether it's through hiking through the arts, uh, it just, I don't know that that mountain has something that pulls you in. I will say, you know, a lot of people, you know, if you're, if you're looking, if you're looking for isolation, if you're looking for, uh, you know, immersion in nature, you can certainly find pockets on Manadnock to get that experience. Just not necessarily on the summit, but, um, if that's, that's what you're into,

[01:05:02] or if Manadnock isn't appealing to you because it's sometimes busy and, and because there are a lot of people on there, that's, that's okay. Uh, you know, Manadnock I've really heard to refer to as like a, it's a, it's a people's mountain. The mountains there is, you know, to be there a lot as a community, there's a great hiking community there. You're going to strike up conversations there. There's, there's a lot of good interactions there, but it's, it's a people's mountain. So if

[01:05:33] isolation, you know, is what you seek, unless you kind of know where and when to go on certain pockets, Manadnock maybe isn't the mountain for you and there's nothing wrong with that. But, um, for the people that are drawn to that mountain and the community that builds there and, and, um, the, the, the general draw and the connection for people there is that's, that, that's sort of the type of mountain it is, um, which, which sets it apart from some other mountain peaks around New

[01:06:02] Hampshire. One of the things that I used to do, um, you know, when you're, when you're running a park, whether it's Mount Washington, whether it's Manadnock or somewhere else, um, you get sort of lost in the shuffle a little bit. You can get overwhelmed, burdened. It's a lot of stuff that, you know, can really just, just wear you down, wear you down. Um, one thing that I did, uh,

[01:06:28] and I do this sometimes on Mount Washington, but certainly this was the benefit of Manadnock and having my office at the start of the white dot trail, also the end of the white dot trail. I would sometimes just quietly step outside and I'd hang around the trailhead and watch and, and listen to people coming off of Manadnock. Um, and I can tell you there were,

[01:06:56] you know, two types of people usually coming down, you know, one people who are so relieved that they were getting to the end of the trail and that the end was in sight because they were wiped. But, uh, the other populace that I was able to listen to were people who were coming down off the mountain, coming off of the trailhead and talking about their day, talking about their experience on

[01:07:22] the mountain, just sort of recapping things. Um, people leaving the mountain, leaving the trail with smiles, uh, building memories. Um, you know, and we have generations of people that hike Manadnock. We've had, you know, grandparents hiking with their grandkids because they hiked with their grandparents. Uh, it's, it's a tradition that's passed down, but it was really important to me and

[01:07:46] really kind of reset me a little bit to refocus on what was important. And that was, um, that was, that was the mission people coming off the mountain under their own power, getting back to the trailhead, smiling, uh, sharing, you know, uh, funny stories or just talking about how great of a day they had as they were, you know, getting ready to transition back to their car and back to their normal lives.

[01:08:11] Um, Manadnock is a really good place for that. I, I can't tell you how many times I did that and I wasn't being nosy. I just, you know, wanted to listen to people coming off the trail and, you know, saying, Hey, we had a really special day on this really special mountain. And, and, um, that's, that's what we're here for. That's our, that's a large part of our mission. Well, I hope that the listeners that, uh, that get a chance to hear you, um, on this episode will be

[01:08:40] the ones that are leaving with a, with a smile as they get in their car. So, and I know that when they get home from driving in their car, they won't have a smile on their face. They'll have an ache in their legs as they get out, but, but the smile going into the parking lot, hopefully they'll achieve that. Some electrolytes and some Advil, uh, and then maybe you can lift your legs out of your car without too much pain when you pull into the driveway. Exactly. So stop before we let, uh, let Patrick go. Is there anything else that we've missed? Well, what I'll suggest

[01:09:10] is for listeners to tap into the show notes. Mike, you've got, uh, a big burden to lift here for the show notes. We have 10 pages of links and information that you can follow up with after this show. And, um, it will include everything from breweries to restaurants, to the fauna on the mountain, to you name it, maps, you, everything. So 10 pages of footnotes, great information.

[01:09:37] And, uh, Patrick, thank you very much for joining us. And, uh, yeah, let us know listeners what you think of the show and if, uh, there's anything we can tweak or add or adjust. Can I give one plug before we go? Sure. Certainly. Yeah. Uh, so, you know, Manadnock's got a great history. Uh, uh, it's a literary mountain, um, pulling in giants like Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson,

[01:10:05] Nathaniel Hawthorne, Willa Cather, even Mark Twain, um, talked about Manadnock, uh, painters, uh, uh, William Preston Phelps was my favorite Manadnock painter, Abbott Thayer, an amazing individual, uh, the McDowell colony out in Peterborough. You've had musicians, dancers, um, Manadnock has a very special lore to it. Um, and it, in, in this plug, you don't have to necessarily know anything about

[01:10:33] Manadnock. If you do, you may already know about this. If you don't, and you want to learn a little bit more about what makes Mount Manadnock so special. Um, it's history of conservation, preservation. Um, the fact that actually the mountain now is like, uh, very largely similar to the same as Henry David Thoreau experienced 150 years ago, or more 150 now. Um, there's a film,

[01:11:01] um, that was put out by a small company, Rabbit Ear Films, my buddy, Dan White, um, Steve Hooper, and some others, uh, that is now streaming on PBS. Uh, it came out last fall. It's called, um, Manadnock, The Mountain That Stands Alone. You can stream it on your PBS app or through the websites, about an hour long. Uh, but I, I implore you, uh, run, do not walk, uh, to this film, uh, view it,

[01:11:30] see it. And that film within 60 minutes, I think, uh, really encapsulates, uh, how special Manadnock is, uh, the battles that have been fought and won over time to keep that mountain, uh, the way it is. And hopefully it will continue in perpetuity. Uh, my pal Dave Anderson did a great job being interviewed in that as well as some others. So I would just really, you don't have to know much about Manadnock, I think, to get some takeaways of that film. I really strongly encourage people

[01:12:00] to check that out. And, and for mountains and other natural places that are special to you, I'm sure you'll at least take some pair parallels and comparisons away to go. Oh yeah, this is how I feel about, you know, this place that I think is special, but, um, that's not going to set you up to hike Manadnock, but it will really set you up well to experience and appreciate, um, how, how really wonderful this mountain is. Excellent. And we will make sure that we include all of this

[01:12:29] in the show notes. And then there's also some books that you had recommended. Um, some of those are, I think one of those books, at least the annals of the Grand Manadnock, I think is in, um, available online. I don't think it's in print anymore, but then there's some good, good, um, available print books that you can buy as well. There are, I mean, Manadnock's history is amazing and so deep and rich. Uh, and, um, there's been some good books written over time. Um, the annals that you mentioned, uh, as well as Manadnock across three centuries,

[01:12:58] the Manadnock guide by Henry Baldwin, uh, Craig Brandon's Manadnock more than a mountain. Um, you know, if you can't find these books, uh, easily reach out to Patrick. I only have one copy of, I think of each Patrick's library. However, your local library, don't forget that exists and is a wonderful resource in your town. And, um, some of these books may either be found there or linked through there. But, um, once you start getting into Manadnock's

[01:13:28] history, it's, uh, it's so interesting to me and it had, it, you know, I don't know. Uh, like I said, I grew up, I grew up in the shadow of the mountain. Uh, I grew up, it's just my eye being constantly pulled to Manadnock, just driving around from the backseat of my parents' car, uh, coming back from visits out of the area, uh, and trips out of the area, looking for Manadnock on the horizon,

[01:13:56] as you know, that location of home. Um, it's, uh, it's just a great mountain and it's got a really great history. And Manadnock has been fought for, um, for over a hundred years to protect it from various forms of development and exploitation. Uh, and you know, there's a reason for that. There's other mountains, including the one I work at now that maybe didn't benefit from that for

[01:14:23] different reasons, not because those mountains aren't special or aren't deserving, but, um, victories were not won. Manadnock had victories won over and over and over again. And I think there's a reason for it. And, um, once you start delving more into its history and why, you know, guys like Henry David Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson and, and beyond, uh, were so drawn to that mountain, they still are today. And to me, it's sort of, I wouldn't say justifies,

[01:14:51] but it validates a little bit of like, I'm one of countless people that have a sense of, of place and, um, just recognize a really sacred special mountain. And thankfully those victories have been won over time and hopefully we'll, any, any threat in the future will continue to, but Manadnock is a true survivor. Excellent. I think with that, we will, uh, we'll wrap this up.

[01:15:17] And I think you put a real nice bow on, uh, on this and, um, um, I'm excited to get out there. I got my, I'm looking at my calendar for trying to figure out the next time I can get out to Manadnock now. Hmm. Yep. Uh, you know, as, as my pal Dave Anderson had noted in the Manadnock documentary, you know, which I've shared the same thoughts and conversations with him. Um, I've, I've never, I've never left Manadnock in a worse mood than when I got there. Yeah, exactly. All right. Well,

[01:15:47] thank you very much, Patrick. Yeah. Thank you guys. Thank you.

[01:16:17] On Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you want to learn more about the topics covered on today's show, please check out the show notes and safety information on slasser podcast.com. That's S L A S R podcast.com. You can also follow the show on Facebook and Instagram. We hope you'll join us next week for another great show until next time on behalf of Mike and Tom,

[01:16:46] get out there and crush the peace.