Episode 152 - Andrew Drummond From White Mountain Ski Co., Missing Hiker in the Dry River, Flume Slide Rescue

[00:00:03] Here is the latest Higher Summits Forecast brought to you by our friends at the Mount

[00:00:13] Washington Observatory.

[00:00:19] Weather above treeline in the White Mountains is often wildly different than at our trailheads.

[00:00:26] Before you hike, check the Higher Summits Forecast at mountwashington.org.

[00:00:32] Weather observers working at the non-profit Mount Washington Observatory write this elevation-based

[00:00:38] forecast every morning and afternoon.

[00:00:42] Search and Rescue teams, avalanche experts, and backcountry guides all rely on the Higher

[00:00:47] Summits Forecast to anticipate weather conditions above treeline.

[00:00:52] You should too.

[00:00:54] Go to mountwashington.org or text FORECAST to 603-356-2137.

[00:01:12] And here is your forecast for Friday, May 17th and Saturday, May 18th.

[00:01:20] Friday In the clear, trending towards in the clouds under mostly cloudy skies with

[00:01:24] a chance of rain showers.

[00:01:26] High in the upper 40s, with winds southeast at 10-25 mph increasing to 25-40 mph.

[00:01:35] Friday night In and out of the clouds under mostly cloudy skies with a slight chance

[00:01:39] of rain showers mainly early.

[00:01:41] With a low in the upper 30s, winds will be southeast at 25-40 mph increasing to 35-50

[00:01:48] mph.

[00:01:49] Still falling to 20-30 above.

[00:01:52] And then Saturday, mostly in the clouds under mostly cloudy skies with a slight chance of

[00:01:58] rain showers early, becoming a chance of rain showers in the afternoon.

[00:02:02] Highs again will be in the mid 40s with winds southeast at 35-50 mph decreasing to 10-25

[00:02:09] mph.

[00:02:11] And again, the wind chill will be 20-30 above and rising.

[00:02:15] So a little damp but starting to get a little more cozy.

[00:02:57] Broadcasting from the Woodpecker Studio in the great state of New Hampshire, welcome

[00:03:01] to the Sounds Like A Search and Rescue podcast where we discuss all things related to hiking

[00:03:07] and search and rescue in the White Mountains of New Hampshire.

[00:03:11] Here are your hosts, Mike and Stump.

[00:03:18] Alright Stump, we're doing it live.

[00:03:36] Doing it live one more time.

[00:03:38] Doing a miracle.

[00:03:39] We're going to do two hours of man and beer discussion tonight.

[00:03:43] No!

[00:03:44] Never again, never again.

[00:03:47] Oh goodness gracious.

[00:03:50] I had my daughter listen to it and give feedback.

[00:03:53] Oh yeah, how'd that go?

[00:03:55] Not terrible.

[00:03:56] Oh, I'm sure.

[00:03:58] Anyway, we'll never be spoken of again.

[00:04:05] So, okay, so welcome to episode 152 of the Sounds Like A Search and Rescue podcast.

[00:04:12] This week we are joined by Andrew Drummond of the White Mountain Ski Company.

[00:04:17] So Andrew is the man when it comes to backcountry skiing in the White Mountains.

[00:04:22] A lot of hiking experience and a lot of just sort of adventure experience.

[00:04:26] So he was kind enough to join us to talk about backcountry skiing, talked about his hiking

[00:04:31] activities in New Hampshire, a little bit about the Deretissima, all kinds of fun topics.

[00:04:35] So very excited.

[00:04:36] So he did a segment with us that takes up most of the episode, but we do have, we got

[00:04:41] an update on the missing hiker from Massachusetts that the Forest Service has been searching

[00:04:47] for.

[00:04:48] We've got some road updates.

[00:04:50] Stomp is setting speed records on Welsh Dickey.

[00:04:53] And we've got a rescue that happened on the Flume Slide Trail that has people fired up.

[00:04:59] So I'm Mike.

[00:05:00] And I'm Stomp.

[00:05:01] Let's get started.

[00:05:20] Let's get started, Stomp.

[00:05:21] So let's get into a hiking buddy tip for the listeners.

[00:05:26] Yeah, what'd you think about last week's digging poop holes and all that good stuff?

[00:05:31] Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:32] It was like very, it was kind of fun to hear Andrew say poop.

[00:05:35] Right.

[00:05:36] Yeah, and his accent.

[00:05:37] I like that.

[00:05:38] Classic.

[00:05:39] Yeah.

[00:05:40] Yes.

[00:05:41] Here we go.

[00:05:42] You should make like an EDM mix just with him saying the word poop.

[00:05:46] I can do that.

[00:05:47] Make sure you bury your poop.

[00:05:50] So, but he's right.

[00:05:51] You got to bury your poop because if you don't bury your poop, some dog that's not going

[00:05:55] to be on a leash is going to find your poop and it's going to be a bad day for them.

[00:05:58] Yeah, for sure.

[00:05:59] Absolutely.

[00:06:00] Yep.

[00:06:01] All right.

[00:06:11] This has been Pease from Hiking Buddies.

[00:06:13] We are a 501c3 nonprofit committed to reducing avoidable tragedies through education, impactful

[00:06:18] projects, and fostering a community of support.

[00:06:21] You can find out more at hikingbuddies.org.

[00:06:24] We wanted to say thank you to those who have supported our mission and most importantly,

[00:06:28] say thanks to those who speak up, who ask questions, and who are willing to provide

[00:06:32] guidance and assistance on the trails when needed.

[00:06:35] You embody what it means to be a hiking buddy.

[00:06:37] And now, for all my newer hikers out there, here's this episode's Hiking Buddies Quick

[00:06:42] Tip.

[00:06:43] If you get lost on a trail or miss a turn, it's safest to go back the way you came.

[00:06:53] Do not attempt off-trail shortcuts or bushwhacking to try to make up time and get back on a trail

[00:06:58] further up.

[00:07:00] Unexpected and dangerous terrain is a possibility, and locating you will only get more difficult

[00:07:05] should you become lost.

[00:07:07] Stay on a trail.

[00:07:16] And we're back.

[00:07:17] All right.

[00:07:18] Thank you very much, Hiking Buddies.

[00:07:20] Good stuff.

[00:07:21] Keep them coming.

[00:07:22] Yeah.

[00:07:24] All right.

[00:07:25] So now we have some updates on road openings.

[00:07:28] So Zeeland Road is open as of today.

[00:07:31] Really?

[00:07:32] So, yes.

[00:07:33] Oh, good.

[00:07:34] Good.

[00:07:35] Yeah.

[00:07:36] So now people can access Hale, Zeeland.

[00:07:39] Correct.

[00:07:40] Yes.

[00:07:41] Yep.

[00:07:42] That's great.

[00:07:43] Zeeland's open.

[00:07:44] Sugarloaf's.

[00:07:45] Yep.

[00:07:46] They can do all that fun stuff.

[00:07:47] And then there is, let me just see here, there was some other late breaking news.

[00:07:51] So Sawyer River Road I don't think is going to be open for a while according to the chatter

[00:08:00] online is that it is just, it's just washed out.

[00:08:07] So I think that that's not good.

[00:08:09] Yeah.

[00:08:10] It's like a yearly occurrence.

[00:08:13] Yeah, pretty much.

[00:08:14] And then Gale River Loop Road is opened.

[00:08:18] What else do we got here?

[00:08:20] Biernotch Road.

[00:08:21] I think we talked about that last week.

[00:08:23] So, yeah.

[00:08:24] So a lot of the big ones are open at this point.

[00:08:26] So good news.

[00:08:27] Spring is here for sure.

[00:08:28] Yeah, I love it.

[00:08:29] Loving it.

[00:08:30] It's been good.

[00:08:31] The bugs haven't been too bad.

[00:08:32] You know, temperatures are still pretty cool in the mornings.

[00:08:35] Perfect time of the year.

[00:08:36] Yep.

[00:08:37] Yeah, yeah.

[00:08:38] It's not bad at all.

[00:08:39] It's like sleeping with your window open time of the year.

[00:08:42] Oh, yeah.

[00:08:44] Yeah.

[00:08:45] All right, so we have an update on a sad story here.

[00:08:47] So there's been, there were reports of a missing hiker that came through

[00:08:51] a couple weeks ago.

[00:08:53] The hiker had been missing since April 16th and there had been

[00:09:00] some search efforts going on.

[00:09:02] So the hiker's name is William Donovan.

[00:09:06] My understanding based on, again, this is what I read online.

[00:09:11] So maybe it's incorrect.

[00:09:13] But my understanding is that this gentleman was a very prolific hiker.

[00:09:21] And I think that he was involved in the AMC doing like guided hikes

[00:09:28] and things like that based on what I read.

[00:09:30] I don't know if that's 100% true, but it sounds like he was a pretty

[00:09:33] experienced hiker.

[00:09:34] So he had been missing since April 16th.

[00:09:37] His car was parked somewhere close to the Crawford Path trailhead.

[00:09:43] And they had been, I guess there'd been searches along the Crawford

[00:09:49] Path and into a number of the different ravines and drainages.

[00:09:55] Unfortunately, the body was discovered about 400 feet upstream from where

[00:10:02] his jacket was discovered in the Dry River region.

[00:10:06] So it sounds to me, Stomp, like he was going between Eisenhower and Monroe

[00:10:12] and somehow ended up down into that Dry River region.

[00:10:16] Maybe he was heading straight across from Pierce and then looping back

[00:10:22] up to Eisenhower or something.

[00:10:23] I don't really know what his destination was, but he was down in that

[00:10:28] Dry River area and it was a pretty long carry out for the rescue teams

[00:10:33] that had to go in there and recover the body.

[00:10:36] But rugged area, very difficult to stay on trail down there.

[00:10:40] Tons of blowdowns.

[00:10:41] I haven't really hiked that area too much, Stomp.

[00:10:44] I haven't been in the Dry River before, but I know from talking to people

[00:10:49] and from seeing the chatter online that it's just a rugged area with a lot

[00:10:53] of blowdowns, doesn't get a lot of maintenance, and it's just not an area

[00:10:56] to be in the winter.

[00:10:57] You're right, it's pretty hardcore in there.

[00:11:00] What I find interesting is he was found upstream 400 feet from his jacket.

[00:11:06] That's strange.

[00:11:07] That doesn't make any sense.

[00:11:09] Yeah, I don't know if that means that his jacket went...

[00:11:18] Yeah, I don't really know.

[00:11:20] Maybe it's a hypothermia situation and some clothes were left behind

[00:11:26] or something.

[00:11:27] I'm not sure.

[00:11:28] But hats off to all the rescue teams.

[00:11:32] I think this is pretty much a mutual aid effort with all the teams involved,

[00:11:38] and they did astounding work.

[00:11:41] They do mention the boulder in the story, and I can give you a little insight

[00:11:45] on that.

[00:11:46] The boulder was probably, best guesstimate would be 35,000 pounds.

[00:11:53] Yeah.

[00:11:54] Wow.

[00:11:55] Cubic feet of granite, incredibly massive to move.

[00:11:59] Pneumatics had to be used to move the thing, pry bars, you name it.

[00:12:03] It's just monumental achievement on the end of the search and rescue teams.

[00:12:09] Yeah, yeah.

[00:12:11] And in the news article, it does indicate that he was...

[00:12:15] The theory is that he was somehow forced from the ridge,

[00:12:19] it sounds like between Eisenhower and Monroe, down into the dry river

[00:12:27] based on adverse weather conditions or high winds.

[00:12:32] So it sounds like he might have been out for a day where he was doing like a...

[00:12:36] And I've done similar hikes where you go up Crawford Path,

[00:12:39] you grab Pierce, Eisenhower, Monroe, and then you can come down

[00:12:43] a bunch of different ways from Monroe.

[00:12:44] You can come down Ammonusic and then connect back up to Mount Clinton

[00:12:48] for a loop or a million different ways you can come out of there.

[00:12:52] So tough to know exactly what his route was, but it's a sad story for sure.

[00:12:57] But he was an experienced person, so he knew what he was doing.

[00:13:00] It's just a good example that things can happen to anybody.

[00:13:04] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:13:05] Yeah, and he's back to his family.

[00:13:07] So that's the ultimate goal here.

[00:13:11] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:13:14] All right, Stomp, so we have another story here that Dave Schitt's

[00:13:17] in the Woods had sent over to us.

[00:13:18] So shout out to Dave.

[00:13:20] Again, unfortunately, this is another sad story,

[00:13:23] but this is a body recovery of a gentleman that was...

[00:13:28] He was recovered from the Colorado River, so this is in the Grand Canyon.

[00:13:33] He had vanished with his dog in a homemade raft on the Grand Canyon,

[00:13:38] which is kind of wild.

[00:13:39] Like that river can be a little crazy.

[00:13:41] You don't want to go out on a homemade raft,

[00:13:43] but this guy was, I guess, doing his thing here.

[00:13:47] So National Park Service was notified Friday about a body

[00:13:50] that was spotted in the Colorado River.

[00:13:54] It basically appears to be a body of a 56-year-old man

[00:13:59] by the name of Thomas Robinson of Santa Fe, New Mexico.

[00:14:03] Park officials say Robinson was believed to have attempted to travel down the river

[00:14:07] with his dog on a wooden raft.

[00:14:10] There had been previously a photo released of the raft

[00:14:12] that was believed to be the one that Robinson was using,

[00:14:15] showing just a few long planks assembled together along with a paddle

[00:14:19] and a life vest, and the dog is in a milk carton.

[00:14:23] Oh, come on.

[00:14:24] This gives me the whole Chris McCandless vibe.

[00:14:27] Like what was this guy doing?

[00:14:28] It totally does.

[00:14:29] Yeah, it totally does.

[00:14:30] And it's weird because it's like he's on these three slats of—

[00:14:37] they look like they're wood-burned.

[00:14:41] Yeah, it's like just three tabletops, essentially, that are wood-burned.

[00:14:45] Like you would have at a—

[00:14:46] we had these in our bars in college.

[00:14:48] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:14:49] You're right.

[00:14:50] Almost looked like little surfboards or something.

[00:14:53] Yeah, exactly.

[00:14:54] So he's got those stringed together with a couple of pieces of wood,

[00:14:57] and then he's got a paddle that's like a very heavy kind of paddle

[00:15:03] and then a life jacket.

[00:15:04] So, yeah, just not a place to be in the Colorado River

[00:15:08] where there's rapids and all kinds of calamities that can unfold.

[00:15:11] So he unfortunately didn't survive.

[00:15:13] But, yeah, I think it's right.

[00:15:14] You stomp.

[00:15:15] It's like a vision quest type of thing.

[00:15:18] I think so.

[00:15:19] Push the boundaries, see what I can do.

[00:15:21] Yes.

[00:15:23] And it didn't work out so well.

[00:15:26] Yeah, so another tragedy.

[00:15:28] So rough week, Stomp.

[00:15:30] Who pulled all these news articles?

[00:15:31] Yeah, exactly.

[00:15:32] So wait a minute, the dog died too?

[00:15:34] Apparently.

[00:15:37] Hold on, let me double-check that.

[00:15:39] Body recovered.

[00:15:40] The dog is vanished.

[00:15:42] Oh.

[00:15:43] So we don't know what happened to the dog.

[00:15:44] Interesting.

[00:15:45] Could have been drowned maybe or picked up by some critter.

[00:15:49] Who knows?

[00:15:51] Eaten by coyotes.

[00:15:52] Do you think there's a good amount of animals deep down in the Colorado?

[00:15:57] I don't know.

[00:15:58] I'm not sure.

[00:15:59] Yeah, that'd be interesting to find out.

[00:16:01] Yeah, that would be.

[00:16:03] All right, Stomp, this next one here, you had solicited the listeners.

[00:16:08] We don't want the listeners' opinions, Stomp.

[00:16:10] Why do you ask them questions?

[00:16:12] Yeah, I was just curious.

[00:16:14] So Stomp reaches out for feedback.

[00:16:18] I told him not to do this.

[00:16:20] So explain what you're doing.

[00:16:21] All right, well, we came up with some topics.

[00:16:24] Our topic list was running a little thin.

[00:16:27] So we got some feedback from a few people.

[00:16:32] We may have talked about some of these things,

[00:16:33] but Cindy Chess mentioned Coos County,

[00:16:37] covering topics such as things up north of the Notches,

[00:16:41] Lakes Region Castle in the clouds, and the Coos Trail.

[00:16:45] We have done the Coos Trail.

[00:16:46] We had Nabi in, but that might be fun to cover again sometime or another.

[00:16:51] Paul Gamell Jr. had mentioned Steve Smith.

[00:16:53] What do you know?

[00:16:54] We just talked about that recently.

[00:16:56] Coco Gorm mentions the Tour de Mont Blanc.

[00:16:59] I'm not too familiar with that.

[00:17:01] Is that a—

[00:17:02] Yeah, as a matter of fact, I got to get my friend Jonathan on.

[00:17:04] So he's been—so Jonathan, I've talked, I've mentioned him a few times.

[00:17:08] I can get him on in the next couple of weeks.

[00:17:10] He can talk about the Tour de Mont Blanc.

[00:17:12] Okay. What is it, a bicycle race?

[00:17:15] Well, no, it's—I'm assuming the listener is talking about—

[00:17:22] it's like a through hike in France, in the Alps.

[00:17:25] All right. On skis or just foot, whatever?

[00:17:28] Just foot, yeah. I think it's a hut-based hike, I believe.

[00:17:33] Okay. Let's see.

[00:17:35] James Phoenix had mentioned just to get an actual trail steward in.

[00:17:40] That might be fun.

[00:17:41] If anybody has any connections, let us know.

[00:17:44] Also, the New England 67 and some more bushwhacking tips.

[00:17:49] Yeah, so those are some of the things that people mentioned.

[00:17:53] And we will consider it for sure.

[00:17:55] Yeah, yeah. If you have any ideas, send them to Instagram

[00:17:58] because Mike sucks at monitoring the Facebook.

[00:18:01] So do I recently. I'm missing a whole bunch of stuff.

[00:18:05] Well, you'll get there. You'll get there.

[00:18:07] But I do have some history topics that I'm going to be bringing up.

[00:18:09] We just happen to have like a long list of guests

[00:18:11] that we're plowing through at this point.

[00:18:13] But I've got some history topics.

[00:18:15] I'm going to do a deep dive on Louise Chaput as well.

[00:18:17] I think I'm going to do a full episode on that.

[00:18:19] Okay.

[00:18:20] I'm working through some feedback.

[00:18:22] I had to reach out to our friend Al too for that, but I will work on that.

[00:18:26] So there's some good stuff coming up.

[00:18:27] Yeah. I'm really excited about it.

[00:18:30] Yep. Speaking of coming up, we've got 48 peaks.

[00:18:33] The longest day is coming up soon, Stomp.

[00:18:35] So why don't we do our advertisement for the 48 peaks?

[00:18:39] Use your passion for hiking to help end Alzheimer's.

[00:18:42] In one collective effort, 400 plus hikers will climb

[00:18:45] New Hampshire's 4,000 footers or create their own challenge

[00:18:48] to support the mission of the Alzheimer's Association.

[00:18:51] The annual hiker celebration will take place Saturday, June 8th

[00:18:55] at Reckless Brewing Company with raffles, food, and an amazing community.

[00:18:59] Hike that weekend or any day you want.

[00:19:01] No fundraising minimums required,

[00:19:04] but those who raise $100 will receive this year's

[00:19:07] performance grade purple t-shirt.

[00:19:09] Let's turn the White Mountains purple to end Alzheimer's.

[00:19:12] Visit alts.org write slash 48 peaks to learn more.

[00:19:17] Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that.

[00:19:19] So we'll be situated.

[00:19:20] We'll have the tent up.

[00:19:21] We have the brand new slasher tent that we grabbed last year

[00:19:25] and we'll be set up and blasting some music

[00:19:28] and yeah, all that fun stuff.

[00:19:32] Let's go.

[00:19:33] Yeah, it's going to be great.

[00:19:35] And now the usual stuff.

[00:19:37] You can get your stickers at Ski Fanatics and Spinners

[00:19:40] down in Andover and you can also advertise with slasher.

[00:19:45] Lately, the advertisers have been giving us a lot of great positive feedback.

[00:19:50] So that's super cool.

[00:19:51] And we really thank everybody for choosing us to sell their product.

[00:19:57] Let's see.

[00:19:58] We have another here.

[00:20:00] CS Coffee.

[00:20:01] CS Coffee is, let's see, our new sponsor.

[00:20:08] The podcast is supported by them

[00:20:10] and they are makers of premium compostable coffee

[00:20:14] and with backpacking season coming up here.

[00:20:17] This is definitely the go-to.

[00:20:19] It's straightforward and eco-friendly,

[00:20:21] perfect for anyone who loves the outdoors as much as we do.

[00:20:24] It's great for backpacking, day hiking and camping.

[00:20:27] And here's a little bonus for the listeners.

[00:20:29] If you want a free sticker from CS, just shoot them an email at info

[00:20:33] at csinstant.coffee.

[00:20:36] And their website is www.csinstant.coffee.

[00:20:41] Hey, hold my beer.

[00:20:51] It's time to find out what Mike and Stomp are drinking

[00:20:54] on this week's beer talk.

[00:20:56] Very good, Stomp.

[00:21:05] And speaking of switching from coffee to beer,

[00:21:09] this is the part of the show where we talk about what beer we're drinking.

[00:21:11] Are you getting anything fun you're drinking?

[00:21:13] Yeah, I picked up something from Schilling and it's,

[00:21:17] can you see this?

[00:21:18] Let me see this.

[00:21:19] I can see it.

[00:21:20] Is it reversed?

[00:21:21] It looks good.

[00:21:22] Yeah, something different.

[00:21:23] So I love them in general, but this is called Nordertor.

[00:21:28] Nordertor.

[00:21:29] I don't know what that means,

[00:21:30] but it's a Northern German style pilsner coming in at 5%,

[00:21:35] real light and pretty tasty.

[00:21:38] So good job Schilling.

[00:21:39] Look at you going back to your German roots.

[00:21:42] Yes, yes.

[00:21:43] Da.

[00:21:47] Nice.

[00:21:48] And I'm still recovering from, I think I had the flu.

[00:21:50] I think that's what ended up happening because I'm just dragging still.

[00:21:53] Yeah, I bet.

[00:21:54] So no beer for me tonight, but I think I'm going to run tomorrow.

[00:21:58] I'm going to get back into it.

[00:21:59] So I'm hoping that like I'm through the end of it.

[00:22:02] But yeah, it was rough going last week.

[00:22:04] Hey, listen, we're going to be hiking this Sunday.

[00:22:06] Me and Dave Schitt's are going to hit Action Ridge.

[00:22:08] If you're feeling that well, we're not going to do all of it.

[00:22:12] We're going to hit Ball Peak, Action, and then Satchin probably,

[00:22:15] then come back.

[00:22:16] So if you're feeling good, let us know.

[00:22:18] Yeah, I'm getting out on Saturday.

[00:22:20] Instead, I'm going to get out with my daughter's home for school,

[00:22:23] and she wants to grab a 44,000 footer.

[00:22:26] So I think we're going to go grab Garfield or something that she is on her list.

[00:22:30] Okay.

[00:22:32] But Sunday I have to go to a memorial mass and family thing.

[00:22:36] Okay, gotcha.

[00:22:37] So can't make it, so have fun with Dave.

[00:22:39] Good luck.

[00:22:40] Hopefully you return alive.

[00:22:41] I don't know.

[00:22:42] That guy, I don't know about him.

[00:22:44] Yeah, have you noticed he hasn't tagged anything on the Notable Hikers?

[00:22:48] He has.

[00:22:49] You must be satisfied.

[00:22:50] He's probably been sharpening his knife now that he's got you to go out hiking with him.

[00:22:55] Oh, yeah.

[00:22:57] We'll see.

[00:22:58] I don't know.

[00:22:59] A little nervous.

[00:23:00] I knew we should have gone left back there.

[00:23:02] Stomp, don't worry.

[00:23:04] I know it's this way.

[00:23:05] I've got a feeling in my gut.

[00:23:07] Are you sure you're not about to have a bowel emergency?

[00:23:10] Totally.

[00:23:12] We got this.

[00:23:13] But I just blew out my hip.

[00:23:15] Fell down that gully with my 40-year-old micro spikes.

[00:23:18] Suck it up, Stomp.

[00:23:19] It's 4 p.m.

[00:23:20] We're at 3,500 feet.

[00:23:21] We got nine miles back to the parking lot.

[00:23:24] Your leg may be broken.

[00:23:26] We got no cell connection, and we can't feel our fingers.

[00:23:29] But we're finishing all of my list tonight.

[00:23:31] By the way, I need some water.

[00:23:33] I'm empty.

[00:23:34] I would if I could see what I'm doing, but my headlamp batteries are dead.

[00:23:37] You gotta be kidding me.

[00:23:39] What a chump.

[00:23:40] This is the last time I hike with you.

[00:23:42] Whatever, Mr. Do-You-Know-Me.

[00:23:44] I have a podcast.

[00:23:46] Whatever.

[00:23:50] Let's find out what Mike and Stomp have been hiking.

[00:23:55] What about your recent hike, Stomp?

[00:23:58] Have you gone out?

[00:24:00] You've got Welch-Dickey here.

[00:24:01] You did a best-of time?

[00:24:03] Yeah, I just came in this afternoon.

[00:24:05] Well, I want to say it may be probably my fastest, but it's—

[00:24:08] I'm not trying to break any fastest known time or anything like that,

[00:24:11] but I hit it this afternoon before we started recording.

[00:24:15] I started at 2.50 p.m., and I cranked up to Welch in 56 minutes,

[00:24:22] which is pretty cool.

[00:24:23] I think it's 2.2 miles.

[00:24:26] And then from there, I went over to Dickey from about 3.46 to 4.01,

[00:24:35] not too shabby, 15 minutes.

[00:24:37] And then from Dickey, I got out at 4.41.

[00:24:40] So basically, I came in for the entire loop at 1 hour and 51 minutes,

[00:24:47] which is pretty cool.

[00:24:48] I got to tell you, though, dude, I had a chip on my shoulder.

[00:24:51] I was trying to get up to the summit of Welch so fast

[00:24:54] that I was walking with my hands on my thighs,

[00:24:58] and sucking in flies the whole time.

[00:25:01] Oh.

[00:25:03] Yeah.

[00:25:04] So what I'm doing is just using it as a metric for fitness.

[00:25:07] I'm just trying to get in better shape, that's all.

[00:25:11] Yeah, yeah.

[00:25:12] Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[00:25:14] What else?

[00:25:16] Anywhere else you've been poking around, Snop?

[00:25:18] You're on a tier with the hiking stuff.

[00:25:20] Well, I mean, I got to experience for the first time that Dry River area.

[00:25:25] Oh, you did get out there?

[00:25:26] Oh yeah, I did, yeah.

[00:25:27] So I went in 2.5 miles in.

[00:25:30] And do you want to talk about it just briefly a little more here?

[00:25:33] I have a couple stats that are cool.

[00:25:35] Yeah, I'm curious because I've never been in that area.

[00:25:40] Based on what I hear, there's been a couple of incidents out there.

[00:25:43] Oh yeah.

[00:25:44] I think that there was another situation where somebody had gotten killed

[00:25:49] due to a flash flood or something a couple of years ago.

[00:25:52] And my understanding is that area frequently gets flooding

[00:25:58] and there's not a lot of trail maintenance.

[00:26:00] It's a wilderness area.

[00:26:01] There's a ton of blowdowns, tough to keep on trail

[00:26:04] and a lot of old shelters and just a dangerous area in general, right?

[00:26:09] For sure.

[00:26:10] Yeah, so you grab it from Route 302 in Crawford Notch

[00:26:14] at the Dry River campground.

[00:26:16] First mile or so is pretty flat with sporadic blowdowns.

[00:26:22] The entire trail is 9.6 miles from the start

[00:26:25] until you get to Lake of the Clouds Hut.

[00:26:29] But basically, it's a 50-yard wide washout.

[00:26:35] It's a floodplain in there.

[00:26:37] And back in 2011, we had the big hurricane.

[00:26:42] So a lot of the trail got wiped out.

[00:26:45] Back in 2014, the U.S. Forest Service tried to reroute

[00:26:48] and repair certain sections.

[00:26:49] But I can tell you, there are so many landslides in there.

[00:26:52] It was wild.

[00:26:54] I've never seen such a bloody – it looked like King Kong came through there

[00:26:57] and just destroyed everything.

[00:26:59] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:27:00] So it was really impressive.

[00:27:02] So you had 9.6 miles and, like I said,

[00:27:06] it's lightly trodden for the first mile or so.

[00:27:09] You get one view of Mount Washington and Monroe at about one mile in

[00:27:14] and that's pretty much the only view you get.

[00:27:18] Until you get to the headwall and start ascending there,

[00:27:21] then you can turn back and see the whole expanse behind you.

[00:27:26] So yeah, let's see.

[00:27:27] There's one bridge just after that viewpoint

[00:27:30] and it's the one and only bridge.

[00:27:31] And boy, is that thing beautiful.

[00:27:33] It's one of those truss bridges there that sort of bounce under your feet

[00:27:36] when you're walking, which is a little hairy.

[00:27:41] Yeah.

[00:27:42] Yeah, and let's see.

[00:27:43] So there are a couple trail junctions that you might have touched on

[00:27:47] just a moment ago, but the Isolation Trail is about 4.0 miles in

[00:27:52] and somebody's going to have to fill me in on this.

[00:27:54] I'm assuming it goes to Isolation.

[00:27:56] I'm not 100% sure.

[00:27:58] At that same proximate area, you have the Dry River Cutoff,

[00:28:03] which heads up to Mitzpah Hut,

[00:28:05] and then also another spur that goes up to Eisenhower called the Eisenhower Trail.

[00:28:10] So there's a lot going on in there.

[00:28:12] There is one shelter that's about 6 miles in called the Dry River Shelter,

[00:28:16] and it's the only remaining shelter in there because the others got destroyed

[00:28:20] and I guess it's in pretty good shape.

[00:28:22] And it's right next to the river.

[00:28:25] So yeah, at the very end, the headwall's called Oaks Gulf Headwall

[00:28:30] and it's about a thousand foot climb to Lake of the Clouds.

[00:28:33] So a very interesting place.

[00:28:37] Yeah, and I know the Isolation Trail basically branches off to the northeast

[00:28:42] and then connects with North Isolation,

[00:28:44] and then you actually have to go back down south to get to the main Mount Isolation.

[00:28:49] So it's weird that the Isolation Trail doesn't necessarily directly hit Mount Isolation.

[00:28:54] It hits North Isolation and the Davis Path goes right to it.

[00:28:58] But yeah, that Eisenhower,

[00:29:02] I would assume the Mount Clinton Trail and the Mount Eisenhower Trail,

[00:29:06] probably very rarely do they even get much traffic at all.

[00:29:11] And then it looks like there's a campsite at around 3,200 feet

[00:29:18] below Lakes of the Cloud.

[00:29:21] And the climb up the headwall must be interesting.

[00:29:25] But yeah, this is an area I think I'm going to have to go check this out.

[00:29:28] Well, you know what I was thinking?

[00:29:29] You can loop it.

[00:29:30] You'd have to car spot back to Crawford, the AMC Highland Center,

[00:29:34] but you could go in Dry River and then do a southern prezzy.

[00:29:38] That'd be really cool.

[00:29:40] Yeah, I mean, you could basically park at the Highland House

[00:29:47] or the Highland Center and then make your way down.

[00:29:53] I mean, you could even just take a bike down.

[00:29:55] It's like four miles.

[00:29:56] And spot the bike.

[00:29:57] Yeah, it's not close.

[00:29:58] It's not bad.

[00:29:59] Oh, yeah.

[00:30:00] I was thinking it was bad.

[00:30:02] Well, if you parked at the Highland Center and then took a bike

[00:30:06] Yeah, that would work.

[00:30:07] And then just went down the hill, it's not bad.

[00:30:10] That's a good call.

[00:30:11] Yeah, just strap a bike to the side rail there and you're good to go.

[00:30:15] See, Stomp?

[00:30:16] I'm not as dumb as you look.

[00:30:18] If I don't bump.

[00:30:22] Right?

[00:30:23] That was good.

[00:30:25] So that was a good one.

[00:30:28] Speaking of jokes, where the heck is the dad joke thing?

[00:30:32] I'm getting the dad joke right now, Stomp.

[00:30:35] Look at that.

[00:30:37] I've got my book and I've got it picked out.

[00:30:43] Why should you never fart in an Apple store?

[00:30:51] I think Apple the computer.

[00:30:53] What? Say again?

[00:30:56] Why should you never fart in an Apple store?

[00:30:59] Oh, like the computer you said.

[00:31:01] Yeah.

[00:31:03] I have no idea.

[00:31:05] Because they don't have any windows.

[00:31:09] Oh, boy.

[00:31:10] There's no windows in an Apple store.

[00:31:12] Oh, that was good.

[00:31:14] Bill Gates joke.

[00:31:16] And I apologize to Feelstone Kombucha that you have to follow that act.

[00:31:23] That's tough.

[00:31:24] That's right.

[00:31:25] And we are so glad to have Feelstone back with us again.

[00:31:29] They're really promoting themselves out here in the northeast.

[00:31:33] So it's great to see.

[00:31:34] Feelstone is New England's premier craft kombucha company.

[00:31:38] If you're in the heart of New England, you need to drink a New England style kombucha.

[00:31:42] Softer, less acidic and truly enjoyable.

[00:31:45] Our kombucha is naturally effervescent and boasts full-bodied flavor.

[00:31:49] Feelstone crafts the best seasonal flavors.

[00:31:52] When we tell you there's strawberries in our garden blush flavor,

[00:31:55] it's like biting into a sun-ripened strawberry.

[00:31:59] By the way, up on Welch Dickey, the blueberry bushes are starting to change a little bit.

[00:32:06] So I'm keeping an eye on that.

[00:32:07] Really?

[00:32:08] Yeah, pay attention for the blueberry report and slasher.

[00:32:13] We need some happy beers.

[00:32:16] Oh, absolutely.

[00:32:18] Women-owned and operated, we brew in Rhode Island using locally sourced ingredients.

[00:32:23] Feelstone Kombucha is the perfect replenishing drink after a day on the slopes or a trek in the woods.

[00:32:28] It's chock full of probiotics and healthy acids to keep you in top form.

[00:32:33] Find us at Sunflower Natural Foods in Laconia,

[00:32:36] La Tasse Cafe in Waterville Valley,

[00:32:40] the Concord Food Co-op and Granite State Food Co-op in Concord, and more.

[00:32:46] So check out the website for the full list of New Hampshire and New England-wide locations.

[00:32:51] Use code SLASR on our website for 10% off.

[00:32:57] And they ship straight through the door, which is fantastic as well.

[00:33:00] So that's feelstonekombuchaco.com

[00:33:03] and let's see their numbers, 508-642-5214.

[00:33:08] It's time for Slasher's Notable Hike of the Week.

[00:33:11] If you want to be considered for the hike of the week,

[00:33:14] simply tag Slasher on your social media post.

[00:33:21] Oh boy, we have some notable hikers coming up here.

[00:33:25] Yes, Stomp, you've got your notable hikers. Let's go.

[00:33:28] Yeah, let's do it.

[00:33:29] So if you want to tag Slasher on your adventure to be considered for the hike of the week,

[00:33:34] you can do so.

[00:33:35] And we have a couple this week.

[00:33:36] So hiking feeds my soul, hiked Mount Parker,

[00:33:40] and that was 31 out of the 52 with a view hiking list for Miles the dog.

[00:33:46] Hey, good job, Miles.

[00:33:48] Tom Downs did the Franconia Loop counterclockwise

[00:33:52] and makes note that the Greenleaf Hut is now open.

[00:33:56] Another sign of spring.

[00:33:59] Duchess3663 hiked Blueberry Mountain.

[00:34:02] That's 18 out of 52 with a view for Duchess,

[00:34:06] and that's on me and Mrs. Stomp's proximate list for sure.

[00:34:12] Liz Faye tagged us. Good old Liz.

[00:34:15] She hiked for the New England Healing Sports Association

[00:34:21] in the morning at the Blueberry Mountain.

[00:34:24] She hiked for the New England Healing Sports Association

[00:34:27] in the morning at Knights Hill Nature Park

[00:34:31] and then tackled Prospect Hill,

[00:34:33] which is one of the 500 highest peaks on the 500 highest list.

[00:34:38] Cindy just did a post of Gunstock.

[00:34:42] Good job, Cindy.

[00:34:43] And then finally, JakeSki603 and Full Strength Coffee

[00:34:48] hiked Pierce, Jackson, and Webster.

[00:34:51] They want to let us know that the post holes are alive and well.

[00:34:56] Yeah, I bet you between Pierce and Jackson

[00:35:00] and then the stretch between Jackson and Webster,

[00:35:02] I'm sure that there was some deep snow still sitting there.

[00:35:05] Yeah, totally.

[00:35:07] Amazing.

[00:35:09] I'm going to go with Hiking Feeds My Soul and Mount Parker

[00:35:11] because I got a special spot in my heart for the 52 with a view list

[00:35:16] and I'm rooting for Miles the dog.

[00:35:18] Yeah, yeah.

[00:35:19] And wasn't that where you got lost with your family?

[00:35:25] I didn't get lost.

[00:35:27] I did a bushwhack with them.

[00:35:29] Oh, yes, yes.

[00:35:30] But yeah, it was Cave Mountain,

[00:35:32] Cave Mountain at the lower part of Mount Parker, Langdon Trail.

[00:35:36] A special place in your heart.

[00:35:39] Yeah, I'm kind of annoyed that you remember that.

[00:35:43] No, I knew you were going to pick that.

[00:35:45] Not my finest moment.

[00:35:46] Yeah, I had a gut.

[00:35:47] That was a good call.

[00:35:49] All right, well, this is so most of this episode

[00:35:53] was us just sitting down and talking with Andrew Drumm

[00:35:55] and so we were excited about this.

[00:35:56] Andrew is a big well-known person in the White Mountains

[00:36:01] and especially in the backcountry skiing world.

[00:36:03] So this was a great opportunity for us to sit down

[00:36:06] and learn a lot from him about backcountry skiing and hiking

[00:36:09] and a lot about his history.

[00:36:10] And it was really interesting discussion.

[00:36:12] So what did you say?

[00:36:13] We move into this segment

[00:36:15] and then we'll come out the other side

[00:36:16] and wrap it up with some search and rescue news.

[00:36:18] Yeah, let's go.

[00:36:21] Beep-loop.

[00:36:22] Tiddly-loop.

[00:36:23] It's time for Slashers Guest of the Week.

[00:36:43] Very cool, very cool.

[00:36:55] All right, Stomp, we're here with Andrew.

[00:36:57] Are you ready for this?

[00:36:58] All right.

[00:36:59] Oh, yeah, let's go.

[00:37:01] Thanks for coming out, Andrew.

[00:37:02] All right, thanks, guys.

[00:37:04] Awesome.

[00:37:05] All right, Stomp, why don't you kick it off

[00:37:06] and give your introduction about how, I mean,

[00:37:09] I know of Andrew, I've heard his name multiple times

[00:37:12] over the years, but like, why don't you just give

[00:37:14] some background about how you connected with him?

[00:37:19] Oh, geez, it's another one of those listener referrals,

[00:37:23] actually.

[00:37:24] Andrew, I hate to say it,

[00:37:26] but you're well-known around these parts.

[00:37:29] I hope in a good way.

[00:37:30] So pretty much, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, definitely.

[00:37:32] So all my ski buddies know about you,

[00:37:37] and I heard about you through actually a bunch of skiers

[00:37:39] and snowboarders, so that's how I became aware

[00:37:41] of your name, and then from there,

[00:37:43] I started following your antics on Instagram and whatnot

[00:37:46] and all your backcountry skiing.

[00:37:48] Then there was a spat of some backcountry rescues

[00:37:52] several years ago, so I really started honing in

[00:37:55] on what it means to do a lot of the backcountry skiing

[00:37:59] and just safety and things like that.

[00:38:01] So I've been keeping an eye on you,

[00:38:02] and really appreciate you coming on

[00:38:05] and talking with us about some of these topics.

[00:38:10] And of course, I just realized that you have the store out

[00:38:13] in, is it Jackson where the store is?

[00:38:16] Yeah, right on the corner of Jackson

[00:38:19] across from Shenandoah Pub.

[00:38:22] Oh, that's awesome.

[00:38:23] That's so cool.

[00:38:24] Andrew, the problem with Stomp

[00:38:25] is he's on the wrong side of New Hampshire,

[00:38:27] so we're on the right side of New Hampshire.

[00:38:30] So I get excited whenever anybody's

[00:38:32] on the correct side of New Hampshire.

[00:38:34] So I guess to start off with,

[00:38:38] so you're in Jackson and Conway and that area.

[00:38:41] Do you have any, even for non-hikers

[00:38:44] or just people that are listening,

[00:38:46] what's your go-to food places?

[00:38:48] And then are there any secret spots

[00:38:50] that you recommend close to the village?

[00:38:53] Yeah, these days, I guess whatever's open.

[00:38:57] I think that's the hard part is sometimes

[00:39:00] it's a Monday, Tuesday.

[00:39:01] Those are my days off and finding a restaurant

[00:39:04] that's open those nights can be challenging,

[00:39:06] but there's a few good ones.

[00:39:07] I would say right down the road for me is the Red Fox.

[00:39:11] Oh yeah.

[00:39:12] And that's open every night of the week

[00:39:14] and they have a pretty diverse menu.

[00:39:17] I get takeout from there, that's easy.

[00:39:19] And then Shenandoah Pub right across the way here,

[00:39:22] they've got some bar pizza.

[00:39:25] I've always liked Mote for, again, another diverse menu,

[00:39:29] easy to get a spot at the bar.

[00:39:31] If you want to get fancy, next door to where I am

[00:39:34] is the Thompson House Eatery.

[00:39:36] Oh yeah.

[00:39:38] Expensive but very good food.

[00:39:40] And then, man, I eat a lot of Kringles.

[00:39:43] Kringles is right down the road too.

[00:39:46] They support a lot of our events.

[00:39:48] So we always get pizza from them as well.

[00:39:51] What's the, on 16, maybe it is Kringles,

[00:39:54] I'm thinking about, but there's that little store for Kringles,

[00:39:58] I think it's like they sell subs and it's a convenience store,

[00:40:02] a little bit up on the hill on 16 after you go past.

[00:40:05] There's the Glen Corner, Glenledge, yeah, that McSheffreys.

[00:40:11] So that's another good spot.

[00:40:13] And of course I got to give a shout out to J-Town Deli

[00:40:16] right down the road.

[00:40:17] That's a good spot for sandwiches.

[00:40:19] But yeah, there's a lot of good areas right around here

[00:40:21] and that's a common question I get where to go out to eat.

[00:40:25] And you get tired of the same stuff,

[00:40:28] but I used to really like Salt Pub and Gorm.

[00:40:30] That was my spot.

[00:40:32] But now I guess Big Day Brewing has good food.

[00:40:34] That's another good spot for a brewery if you're north of the notch.

[00:40:39] Yeah, no, that's all good stuff.

[00:40:40] So I'll pull some of those and try to link them in the show notes.

[00:40:43] But yeah, I get excited.

[00:40:45] Honestly, I'm on, my family's over in like Brownfield,

[00:40:48] so I've been tending to go over to Cornish a little bit,

[00:40:50] but we did spend a lot of time going over to Jackson and Conway for food.

[00:40:55] But I got to get back over there.

[00:40:57] So, but I guess Andrew, why don't we start off?

[00:41:02] So you gave some good tips here, but why don't you introduce yourself?

[00:41:05] So your background, you're the owner of White Mountain Ski Company

[00:41:12] and you're very involved in backcountry skiing,

[00:41:16] I think climbing and then trail running, cycling, whatnot.

[00:41:20] So why don't you give a little bit of background about your early life

[00:41:23] and tell the listeners sort of about your story

[00:41:26] in the early days when you got involved in outdoor activities?

[00:41:31] Absolutely. Well, I guess my going way, way back,

[00:41:34] I am from here.

[00:41:36] I'm from Conway, New Hampshire.

[00:41:39] Grew up in the school system here.

[00:41:42] And I guess my love for the outdoors just stemmed from my parents

[00:41:46] taking me hiking and sending me to camp.

[00:41:49] I mean, camp, I went to summer camp at King Pine Ski Area.

[00:41:52] It's called Camp Takami Pog.

[00:41:54] Spent, you know, from age six to 16.

[00:41:58] Went there for a couple of months every summer.

[00:42:00] And yeah, we would go in every week, hiking trips, hiking trips, hiking trips.

[00:42:05] And then in the fall, my parents would take me out

[00:42:08] and then it went straight into ski season

[00:42:11] and ski season was just in the race circuit, alpine racing.

[00:42:16] Some of the skiers around here, so Aditash and Cranmore

[00:42:19] through middle school.

[00:42:20] And then I went to high school in Maine at Gould Academy

[00:42:24] and then I fell out of love with ski racing.

[00:42:28] I wasn't doing so well.

[00:42:29] And I don't know, when I was 17, maybe just turned 18,

[00:42:33] I got my wilderness EMT

[00:42:36] and then became a ski patroller through college.

[00:42:40] I was volunteered at Sunday River and then also Aditash.

[00:42:44] Yeah, so my life like, I mean, I did all the sports too.

[00:42:48] So, I mean, I played football, I played lacrosse, baseball,

[00:42:53] mountain biked, dryland training.

[00:42:55] So I was always active doing things.

[00:43:00] But I attribute a lot of my associations to the mountains

[00:43:04] and endurance sports.

[00:43:05] And what I do now was a lot of that stuff in summer camp.

[00:43:08] I mean, kind of get exposure to a bunch of different activities.

[00:43:14] I did everything there from swimming, referee, archery,

[00:43:18] but lots of time in the mountains

[00:43:21] and these really incredible three-day trips,

[00:43:24] whether it's like the Cardamari Wildcats

[00:43:26] or the presidentials or doing a pemi loop.

[00:43:31] As a kid, that leaves an impression, no doubt.

[00:43:35] But anyway, yeah, so I went through this whole ski phase

[00:43:41] and then fell out of love with it in college.

[00:43:45] I did a summer down in West Virginia.

[00:43:48] I picked up a kayak.

[00:43:51] And when I came back up to Maine,

[00:43:53] my friend took me out with his dad

[00:43:55] and we were out surfing in a kayak,

[00:43:57] in a whitewater kayak trying to surf in Maine.

[00:43:59] It was like a pretty eyeopening experience.

[00:44:02] But all of a sudden, to my left and right, I saw surfers.

[00:44:06] And then that was the next thing.

[00:44:09] So I sold my kayak, got a surfboard, learned how to surf.

[00:44:13] I did a spring break to Costa Rica, studied abroad in Australia.

[00:44:18] And then just that kind of shaped my life after college.

[00:44:24] I used my environmental studies degree or my biology degree

[00:44:28] to become an environmental consultant in San Diego.

[00:44:30] So found the best place for that profession,

[00:44:34] but also the best place I thought for surf.

[00:44:37] And chased waves through Baja, Southern California

[00:44:41] and all over the world through surfing, that mechanism.

[00:44:45] And skiing was something I still did

[00:44:49] a couple weeks out of the year.

[00:44:52] And my brother's in Alaska.

[00:44:55] And so I visited him and was introduced to alpine touring

[00:44:58] on one trip in 2011.

[00:45:02] And that was it.

[00:45:04] Once I discovered that you could travel through the mountains

[00:45:07] on skis and access fresh snow and get all that fun fitness,

[00:45:13] the endurance, long days on your feet,

[00:45:17] and then combine that with some excellent world-class skiing.

[00:45:21] That was what I wanted to be doing every winter.

[00:45:25] So I went from surfing back into,

[00:45:27] all right, well maybe skiing's back where I want to be.

[00:45:31] The reality was in San Diego, it's just really congested.

[00:45:34] And growing up here in New Hampshire,

[00:45:36] once you get that perspective,

[00:45:38] you appreciate a little bit of solitude and some space.

[00:45:42] And so I was like, I got to move back here.

[00:45:45] And so my longtime partner, Hillary and I moved back in 2014.

[00:45:49] And I'm glossing over some stuff,

[00:45:53] but move back here and it's, man,

[00:45:56] these are the mountains I grew up in.

[00:45:58] But to have a completely fresh perspective

[00:46:00] and how do you want to rediscover them?

[00:46:02] And so that was on foot and by ski.

[00:46:05] So I spent the next, oh yeah, the next, it's crazy.

[00:46:09] We're coming up on 10 years now,

[00:46:11] just spending as much time as possible in the White Mountains.

[00:46:15] Wow. So I want to go back because I'm curious about this

[00:46:18] because we've got listeners that have younger kids.

[00:46:20] And there's a lot of people that are into skiing.

[00:46:23] And I'm fascinated by this.

[00:46:25] I was never on the ski team when I was a kid.

[00:46:27] But what I've observed from talking with friends

[00:46:30] and just seeing people progress is like the kids all sort of,

[00:46:33] it's about inclusivity when they get to 12, 13, 14,

[00:46:37] they're all having a good time.

[00:46:39] But there comes a period with like ski racing for kids

[00:46:41] where the way my buddy describes it,

[00:46:44] he's like kind of the kids that have a little bit of a screw loose.

[00:46:46] And they're the ones that have like no fear of injury.

[00:46:51] They're the ones that tend to progress a little bit better.

[00:46:54] And then the first time a kid gets a little rattled,

[00:46:57] it makes a big difference.

[00:46:59] So do you have a thought about that?

[00:47:01] Like for parents that are, that get their kids in ski racing

[00:47:03] and what to expect if they're 12 or 13 now

[00:47:06] and what's going to happen in the next three or four years for them?

[00:47:08] I never looked at it like that.

[00:47:11] That was my bubble.

[00:47:13] That's what my siblings were doing, my family,

[00:47:14] my extended family.

[00:47:16] So everywhere I looked, it was just normalized.

[00:47:19] Now with a little bit of time and perspective,

[00:47:22] I'm pretty blown away that that was our life.

[00:47:25] And you need money obviously because it's expensive.

[00:47:28] It's a damn expensive sport to have multiple,

[00:47:31] not just one pair of skis, but multiple pairs of skis

[00:47:34] and all the other gear that goes along with it

[00:47:36] and then access to the mountains

[00:47:38] and then buying lift tickets and race entries.

[00:47:40] And it's a little crazy.

[00:47:41] I mean, now I'm like, man, if I had kids,

[00:47:44] I would want them to do the school programs

[00:47:47] and get technically proficient in the sport

[00:47:50] because there's no denying that having a background

[00:47:53] in alpine racing gives you a good technique

[00:47:58] and technique results in safety, safe skiing,

[00:48:01] and good form, and it allows you to have more fun.

[00:48:04] So that like, you don't need to go all in on the sport,

[00:48:07] but if you have kids in a program

[00:48:08] and they're doing a little bit of alpine racing,

[00:48:11] they're going to do all the drills

[00:48:13] and they're going to get better and more proficient in the sport.

[00:48:16] And then they can apply that however they want.

[00:48:18] Like the highlight of my ski racing

[00:48:20] was skiing with my dad.

[00:48:22] Afterwards we go travel to say Hunter Mountain or Killington

[00:48:25] or some other resort, Cinder River,

[00:48:27] and we just go free ski all afternoon.

[00:48:29] As soon as our race was done,

[00:48:31] we were skiing until those lifts shut down.

[00:48:33] Got it. So you really didn't experience

[00:48:35] the hyper-competitive piece of it?

[00:48:36] Well, I did. I mean, I traveled,

[00:48:39] I raced internationally

[00:48:41] and I did some of the FIS races on the next level.

[00:48:44] But my partner, Hillary, she was on the US ski team.

[00:48:47] And so she did it.

[00:48:49] She was a phenom,

[00:48:51] probably one of the best skiers around the valley here for sure.

[00:48:55] But she had a, she dipped into that lifestyle

[00:48:58] and I have friends that race World Cups

[00:49:00] and we still follow it, but it's, yeah, everything's relative.

[00:49:03] So what I, I felt like I was in it.

[00:49:05] I was in the mix in my, my little region,

[00:49:08] but in the big picture, I wasn't,

[00:49:10] I wasn't nationally ranked.

[00:49:12] My brother raced collegiately.

[00:49:14] He was an all American at Middlebury.

[00:49:16] And I don't know, I've seen it.

[00:49:18] I've seen it from all angles.

[00:49:20] I just know now that I'm out of it,

[00:49:22] I'm just so thankful that I did get

[00:49:24] a little bit of that skill set

[00:49:26] where I can apply that to the back country.

[00:49:28] Yeah. And then like, so you,

[00:49:30] and then you go the total opposite,

[00:49:31] you're, you're surfing.

[00:49:33] So what was the surfing culture like when you got to California?

[00:49:35] Cause like I envisioned when you,

[00:49:37] when some kid from New Hampshire goes to California,

[00:49:39] like I'm thinking of all those 80s movies

[00:49:41] where the kid moves from Chicago

[00:49:43] and then he has to get into the surf gang

[00:49:45] and they don't, they don't accept him.

[00:49:47] So was it, was it tough to break in

[00:49:49] or did you, were you able to sort of figure out

[00:49:51] the rules and the protocol on how to drop

[00:49:53] into waves and all that stuff?

[00:49:55] Oh yeah, there was some of that.

[00:49:57] I, I clicked with more East Coast people

[00:49:59] that transplanted over.

[00:50:01] So I, so California, I felt like I had a,

[00:50:03] I had a hard time connecting with locals.

[00:50:05] I made some good, I made a few good friends

[00:50:07] and they were kind enough to take me around,

[00:50:11] show me some good waves, but a lot of it's fun.

[00:50:13] Being, starting at zero on a new sport

[00:50:16] was refreshing and I had a lot of fun

[00:50:18] and everything felt so earned in that sport

[00:50:21] where it's very difficult to begin with

[00:50:23] and picking it up later in life,

[00:50:26] just being proficient enough that you can just,

[00:50:29] it's very similar to the back country

[00:50:31] to be able to read a, read a wave

[00:50:33] and know where to go, look at the forecast,

[00:50:36] do everything safely because you can get in

[00:50:38] over your head, especially when you're

[00:50:40] traveling internationally and you're trying

[00:50:42] to be efficient and make the best use of your time.

[00:50:45] So it's, it's really fascinating

[00:50:47] to open up a surf guidebook

[00:50:49] and look at all these beautiful pictures

[00:50:51] and then you go there and it's, it's flat

[00:50:53] and then you're like, all right,

[00:50:55] or maybe it's, it's too, there's too much surf

[00:50:57] and, and then yeah, you're trying to read

[00:50:59] the coastline and try to figure out

[00:51:01] where to go to, to get waves.

[00:51:03] And I thought when I came back here,

[00:51:05] I was like, well, maybe I'll move to the coastline.

[00:51:07] I could see myself living in Portland

[00:51:09] or somewhere on the seacoast and it's just

[00:51:11] the mountains overweighed,

[00:51:13] the frustrations you encounter with surfing

[00:51:16] when you get through these, get into these lulls.

[00:51:19] When are you going to do?

[00:51:21] It's hit or miss over here.

[00:51:23] Stand up paddle. I don't know.

[00:51:25] Right. Before you had your epiphany

[00:51:27] in Alaska with the back country skiing,

[00:51:29] did you, did you get out into the backwoods

[00:51:31] as a kid? I thought I read that you had done

[00:51:33] some stuff on, on talks, but can you talk

[00:51:35] a little bit about your exposure

[00:51:37] before that period in Alaska?

[00:51:39] For, oh, for backcountry skiing.

[00:51:41] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't, yeah,

[00:51:43] it's not really, you know, my mind, it was,

[00:51:45] it wasn't backcountry skiing if you just

[00:51:47] hike with your Alpine gear, but yeah,

[00:51:49] age nine, I have a vivid memory

[00:51:51] going out with my parents and our dog

[00:51:53] and going up straight up the headwall

[00:51:55] and digging, my dad digging us a platform,

[00:51:57] clicking in my skis and skiing down.

[00:51:59] And I thought that was the,

[00:52:01] that was amazing. That was such a cool experience,

[00:52:03] but it was just what you did in the springtime.

[00:52:05] It was part of the culture.

[00:52:07] Then maybe age 12, first time skiing

[00:52:10] down the headwall proper and,

[00:52:12] and that like maybe two turns in

[00:52:14] tomahawking getting a little too far forward.

[00:52:16] This, my, my outside foot just digging

[00:52:19] in and just going ass over tea kettle

[00:52:22] and coming to a stop halfway down

[00:52:25] the wall and seeing my ski or my pole up

[00:52:27] and having to hike back up and pretty

[00:52:29] like, like embarrassed. I'm like,

[00:52:31] coming from a ski background,

[00:52:33] you think you're like, I can do this.

[00:52:35] And then you're like, well, maybe I'm not ready yet.

[00:52:37] But, you know, in hindsight, I was only 12.

[00:52:39] And then I came back every so often,

[00:52:43] every spring. I don't know.

[00:52:45] It's when it's in your backyard, it's,

[00:52:47] it's something you might take for granted

[00:52:49] or just know that you can always come back to it.

[00:52:51] So there's no, never felt rushed

[00:52:53] to spend a ton of time up there,

[00:52:55] but it's also it's who's in your circle

[00:52:56] and who's into it as a kid.

[00:52:58] It's who's driving you there.

[00:53:00] And I, I, I didn't have many friends

[00:53:02] that were into it.

[00:53:04] And my parents were kind of fair weather

[00:53:07] about going up to Tuckerman Ravine.

[00:53:09] They've been doing it for many, many years.

[00:53:11] I mean, I have photos of them up there

[00:53:13] in the six, like in the sixties.

[00:53:15] Crazy, the ski culture.

[00:53:18] So that was just, again, part of their life

[00:53:20] go up when, when it, the conditions look,

[00:53:23] looked good. And that was that.

[00:53:24] And my brother, remember went out

[00:53:26] with him in 2003, maybe so old,

[00:53:30] like in college.

[00:53:32] And he was on telemark skis.

[00:53:34] And, you know, after ski racing,

[00:53:36] he was like looking for another,

[00:53:38] another fun, I guess, category

[00:53:41] in the ski world. And, and telemark

[00:53:43] was dynamic and something that he could

[00:53:46] learn, you know, a new skill

[00:53:48] and a new style of skiing.

[00:53:50] So he, he was skinning up

[00:53:52] and that was the first time I'd seen

[00:53:54] him up on, on skins.

[00:53:56] And for those listeners that aren't

[00:53:58] familiar with Alpine touring or,

[00:54:00] or backcountry skiing, you can either

[00:54:02] do it telemark because your heels

[00:54:04] free so you can apply these,

[00:54:06] this material with a sticky side

[00:54:09] sticks to your bases and then

[00:54:11] a fur like material that only

[00:54:13] slides one way grips the other way

[00:54:15] way more efficient than snowshoeing.

[00:54:18] Or you can Alpine tour,

[00:54:21] which is basically Nordic ski on the

[00:54:22] way up or lock and then lock your

[00:54:24] heel in for the way down. Or you

[00:54:26] could split board, which is, you

[00:54:28] know, like touring on the way

[00:54:30] Nordic on the way up, put your

[00:54:32] board together to a solid board

[00:54:34] and then ride back down. So those

[00:54:36] are the three main ways to, I

[00:54:38] guess, travel in the backcountry.

[00:54:40] Yeah. It's interesting that you

[00:54:42] say it's way more efficient than

[00:54:44] snowshoeing. I was in Slovakia a

[00:54:46] couple of weeks ago and my, I hired

[00:54:48] a guy to take me up there just to,

[00:54:50] I didn't know the area, but yeah,

[00:54:52] he was a professional ski race,

[00:54:54] like a mountain ski. And I asked

[00:54:56] him about snowshoes, like, oh, do

[00:54:58] you ever do? And he's like, no,

[00:55:00] we just skis. That's all they

[00:55:02] ever do. So when they're breaking

[00:55:04] trail, he's like, nobody uses

[00:55:06] snowshoes out there.

[00:55:08] I don't. It's I have, I have done

[00:55:10] a little bit of snowshoeing and it

[00:55:12] is tough.

[00:55:14] Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[00:55:16] It's a good workout.

[00:55:17] And then so if you so I'll give you

[00:55:19] a little bit of background on my.

[00:55:20] I have backcountry skis, but I

[00:55:23] wasn't sure if I was going to be

[00:55:25] committed and I actually probably

[00:55:27] did the smart thing because I

[00:55:29] haven't done a lot of it just

[00:55:31] because I'm been focused more on

[00:55:33] hiking. But I had gone with the

[00:55:35] backcountry skis where it's a full

[00:55:37] frame, but it releases. So it's a

[00:55:39] heavier setup and it's basically

[00:55:41] like I can use that inbounds and

[00:55:43] out of bounds and I could skin up

[00:55:45] in resorts earlier. And, you know,

[00:55:47] it's a little bit heavier, but

[00:55:48] it's a little bit heavier setup

[00:55:50] right now. But then the other

[00:55:52] setup is really more of the real

[00:55:54] lightweight where you're it's it

[00:55:56] basically releases at the boot

[00:55:58] instead of the frame. Right.

[00:56:00] Right. The the frame binding is

[00:56:02] the best of worst, best of both

[00:56:04] worlds, worse of both worlds,

[00:56:06] where it's it's the gateway

[00:56:08] into it. It's, you know, anyone

[00:56:10] can anyone can hop in that system

[00:56:12] with an Alpine boot.

[00:56:14] They can do the mechanics of it,

[00:56:16] do a transition, ski back down.

[00:56:18] It's super important in the I

[00:56:20] guess the kind of the

[00:56:23] the path that anyone takes from

[00:56:25] becoming an Alpine skier into

[00:56:27] backcountry skiers. Like, how do

[00:56:28] you get into it? How do you get

[00:56:30] introduced? And when you remove

[00:56:32] that barrier of entry by needing

[00:56:34] a whole different boot system,

[00:56:36] that's perfect. So there's

[00:56:38] certainly a time and place for

[00:56:40] it. And I found that I skipped

[00:56:42] that stage. I was lucky. I went

[00:56:44] right into some borrowed gear

[00:56:46] where it's pin. It's his little

[00:56:47] thing where your toe pivots on

[00:56:49] and then a little pin system on

[00:56:51] the heel that your heel clicks

[00:56:53] into. And it's really

[00:56:56] it can be intimidating looking

[00:56:58] at to think that that's going to

[00:57:00] save your ass when you're going

[00:57:02] down a headwall or in some steep

[00:57:04] technical skiing. But the

[00:57:06] tradeoff is, you know, you're

[00:57:08] only going to ski as well as

[00:57:10] you've got the energy reserves

[00:57:12] for. And if you're lugging up

[00:57:13] heavy gear, you're not going to

[00:57:15] be able to one have the have the

[00:57:17] energy to ski multiple laps.

[00:57:19] So it's everything's a

[00:57:21] tradeoff. It's what you know,

[00:57:23] what you're familiar with, what

[00:57:25] you don't know, you don't know.

[00:57:27] But once you get on a tech,

[00:57:29] what they call a tech binding

[00:57:31] and you realize, all right, this

[00:57:33] binding is fine. Like most of

[00:57:35] the time it's fine. And yeah,

[00:57:37] you just kind of forget about it.

[00:57:39] And then you can really just

[00:57:41] focus on the skiing.

[00:57:43] Oh, and then just going back to

[00:57:45] your early days. So you had a

[00:57:46] job in a construction company

[00:57:48] and you were doing a lot of

[00:57:49] construction and doing all this

[00:57:50] stuff. So you're working

[00:57:52] basically full time and then

[00:57:53] spending your

[00:57:56] free hours doing some

[00:57:57] activities. But can you talk a

[00:57:58] little bit about your early

[00:57:59] career before you got into

[00:58:01] owning the shop?

[00:58:03] Yeah, I wasn't the retail

[00:58:05] path was never my trajectory,

[00:58:07] but it's where I ended up.

[00:58:09] So I I put my degree, my

[00:58:11] college degree to use, you know,

[00:58:12] environmental consulting was

[00:58:14] a major thing. And then you

[00:58:15] got into field surveying, you

[00:58:16] know, there's wildland

[00:58:18] areas where you're doing plant

[00:58:20] surveys, wildlife surveys.

[00:58:22] Then you're writing this

[00:58:23] technical report that gets

[00:58:25] submitted to whichever

[00:58:28] yeah, whichever I guess

[00:58:30] municipality you're in, whether

[00:58:31] you're in. I was in San Diego.

[00:58:33] So you've got the county of San

[00:58:34] Diego, but then you have all

[00:58:35] these in these different

[00:58:37] little municipalities that have

[00:58:38] their own own rules and

[00:58:40] regulations. But then you have

[00:58:42] the state regulations for

[00:58:43] the state and then you have

[00:58:44] the federal regulations.

[00:58:46] And it's amazing how much

[00:58:48] overlap there is with

[00:58:50] the these biological technical

[00:58:52] reports that we were preparing

[00:58:54] with some of these fire

[00:58:55] protection plans because where

[00:58:57] they're developing is right up

[00:58:58] on these wildland areas.

[00:59:01] And then you would also

[00:59:03] need a biologist that

[00:59:05] had maybe a certification for

[00:59:07] protected species surveys.

[00:59:08] So there's birds, butterflies,

[00:59:11] frogs.

[00:59:12] And then what else

[00:59:14] did we do? There was there was

[00:59:15] a couple other reports that we

[00:59:17] would prepare like wetland

[00:59:19] reports or say maybe a

[00:59:21] revegetation plan.

[00:59:22] But it was really like

[00:59:24] a job that you got to

[00:59:26] work all angles of everything

[00:59:27] that you've picked up

[00:59:29] in college.

[00:59:30] And the

[00:59:32] environment out there is so

[00:59:34] different than here. An oak tree

[00:59:35] here does not look like an oak

[00:59:37] tree out there. So relearning

[00:59:38] all the plants and wildlife.

[00:59:40] And it was very engaging.

[00:59:41] And I was on this, you know,

[00:59:42] it was a cool, cool path.

[00:59:43] But at the end of it,

[00:59:44] every year I'd have like

[00:59:46] three weeks of vacation that

[00:59:47] had to be split up.

[00:59:48] And in my 20s, I really

[00:59:50] wanted to travel.

[00:59:52] And when that third year rolled

[00:59:53] around, the honeymoon period was

[00:59:54] over and my friend

[00:59:56] had this job working

[00:59:58] on boats.

[00:59:59] And he came out and visited me

[01:00:00] once. He's he

[01:00:02] told me all about the job as a

[01:00:03] marine mammal observer.

[01:00:04] So he was looking for whales,

[01:00:06] dolphins, sea turtles, sea

[01:00:07] turtles on these

[01:00:09] these giant boats.

[01:00:11] That were towing air guns

[01:00:13] and microphones and creating

[01:00:14] these 3D maps of oil

[01:00:16] reserves.

[01:00:17] And so he's basically working.

[01:00:19] He's working on these boats,

[01:00:20] you know, Chevron,

[01:00:22] Mobil, X,

[01:00:24] yeah, all the all

[01:00:25] the oil companies.

[01:00:27] And he was there

[01:00:29] as a government requirement to

[01:00:31] monitor what their

[01:00:33] efforts.

[01:00:34] And so there are certain

[01:00:35] protocols if you see a

[01:00:37] whaler dolphin in this zone

[01:00:39] of exclusion or

[01:00:41] you hear them because there's

[01:00:42] also passive acoustic

[01:00:43] monitoring that I later

[01:00:44] got into.

[01:00:45] But, yeah,

[01:00:47] it was a

[01:00:49] year on the year on this boat

[01:00:50] with who knows what

[01:00:52] crew, you know, usually a lot of

[01:00:53] the works in the Gulf of Mexico,

[01:00:54] but anywhere there's ocean,

[01:00:55] they they need these

[01:00:58] they're searching for oil and

[01:00:59] then they need these

[01:01:01] environmental monitors to be out

[01:01:02] there.

[01:01:03] So he did that.

[01:01:05] I wasn't that interested.

[01:01:06] But then once I fell out of love

[01:01:08] with my job and realized that it

[01:01:09] was kind of taking over my life,

[01:01:11] that he

[01:01:13] was in Africa and

[01:01:15] in Mozambique and traveling and

[01:01:17] living the life that I was ready.

[01:01:19] I was ready to live.

[01:01:20] So, yeah, my mid-20s

[01:01:22] what's better than

[01:01:24] traveling the world on someone

[01:01:25] else's dime?

[01:01:26] Right. And that's like where

[01:01:28] man, I tried to get out of

[01:01:30] that job for several years, but I

[01:01:31] could not find another

[01:01:33] job that gave me the

[01:01:34] flexibility that that one did

[01:01:36] because you could work five weeks

[01:01:38] or four weeks on this boat and

[01:01:39] then not have to work for

[01:01:41] another two months and

[01:01:43] then go back and forth,

[01:01:45] back and forth. And yeah, I'd

[01:01:46] maybe work four months out of the

[01:01:47] year and then I'd have a lot of

[01:01:49] the other time off.

[01:01:51] But those those times where you're

[01:01:53] on the ship, I would assume

[01:01:54] that's going to be a rough

[01:01:55] environment like you get a mix of

[01:01:56] people and the conditions

[01:01:58] must be

[01:02:00] not right.

[01:02:01] Well, think of the Gulf of Mexico

[01:02:02] is like hurricane season was

[01:02:04] just out of control.

[01:02:05] We would be stuck in we'd be stuck

[01:02:07] in port sometimes and

[01:02:09] with nothing to do and just

[01:02:11] hunkering down. And I would try

[01:02:12] to get off the boats and go for

[01:02:13] runs.

[01:02:14] And, you know, I went to Africa

[01:02:15] four times.

[01:02:17] I went to Vietnam.

[01:02:18] I went to Suriname

[01:02:20] in South America.

[01:02:22] I worked in Hawaii on long line

[01:02:23] fishing boats.

[01:02:24] And that was crazy on these

[01:02:25] little.

[01:02:26] Oh, wow.

[01:02:27] It's a little sort of like tuna

[01:02:28] boats. And

[01:02:30] I don't know. It was a great,

[01:02:31] great time of my life.

[01:02:33] I was super appreciative

[01:02:35] to be able to go travel.

[01:02:36] And but at

[01:02:37] some point I was like, this is

[01:02:38] not it.

[01:02:39] Yeah. I could never do that.

[01:02:40] Like, I would annoy the crap out

[01:02:42] of everybody.

[01:02:43] Somebody would disappear me over

[01:02:44] this over the side of the ship

[01:02:45] within like a week or two.

[01:02:46] I would go crazy.

[01:02:48] So

[01:02:50] traveling gave me a huge

[01:02:51] appreciation for New England and

[01:02:52] New Hampshire in particular,

[01:02:54] you know, traveling through

[01:02:55] Austria, all these places

[01:02:57] you come back like, wow, you know,

[01:02:58] we have a lot here

[01:03:01] to be appreciative of and thankful

[01:03:02] for.

[01:03:03] Absolutely. And every time I still

[01:03:05] feel that way, every time I go

[01:03:06] back here, it's we have

[01:03:08] it really, really good.

[01:03:09] And I'm always excited to come

[01:03:11] back. But I think I

[01:03:13] love getting these little shots of

[01:03:14] travel like every

[01:03:16] winter and summer.

[01:03:17] I try to go somewhere and

[01:03:19] and it stems from like that's

[01:03:21] just that love of exploration.

[01:03:23] Yeah. And then so you guys,

[01:03:25] you finally settled down.

[01:03:26] You've you probably earned some

[01:03:27] money. You've seen some things.

[01:03:28] You're ready to settle down a

[01:03:29] little bit and come back to the

[01:03:30] East Coast.

[01:03:32] Did you have a period of time

[01:03:33] where you were trying to figure

[01:03:34] out what you wanted to do?

[01:03:36] What you were going to do?

[01:03:37] Or did you have this retail

[01:03:41] plan ready to go when you got back?

[01:03:44] I wish I had it all figured out.

[01:03:45] Yeah.

[01:03:46] No, I mean, this was like

[01:03:48] like a real struggle

[01:03:50] and something that was incredibly

[01:03:52] hard for me was coming

[01:03:54] back here starting from scratch.

[01:03:56] It was exciting, but it's

[01:03:58] being unemployed and not knowing

[01:03:59] what your next move is,

[01:04:01] is it's

[01:04:03] not easy. And I don't I think

[01:04:04] there's a lot of listeners that can

[01:04:05] probably relate to be you're in

[01:04:07] between jobs where people will ask

[01:04:08] you, it must be nice.

[01:04:10] But then you're just stressed about

[01:04:11] the next job.

[01:04:12] So you don't really get to enjoy

[01:04:14] that that downtime.

[01:04:15] And so in 2014,

[01:04:18] I gave myself a year, you know, to

[01:04:19] kind of figure things out.

[01:04:20] And I

[01:04:22] had a friend that

[01:04:25] his dad has a trawling company

[01:04:27] and he's an engineer.

[01:04:29] And at some point,

[01:04:31] yeah, it must have been in

[01:04:32] that year we decided

[01:04:34] or he kind of invited me to jump on

[01:04:36] this project, creating fertilizer

[01:04:39] out of bycatch from the trawling

[01:04:41] industry. And so they would catch

[01:04:43] all the spiny dogfish,

[01:04:45] which is a shark that,

[01:04:47] you know, there's not not much

[01:04:49] of a market for it.

[01:04:50] So we were cutting it up in a grinder

[01:04:52] and we got a fermenter,

[01:04:55] a beer fermenter with a grant that I

[01:04:57] think Rising Tide Brewery now has.

[01:04:59] But we used to catch those things off

[01:05:01] of the Iowa shoal all the time.

[01:05:03] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:05:05] Pretty kind of a nuisance

[01:05:07] fish because they

[01:05:09] pee effectively pee out of their skin

[01:05:11] and as soon as they die,

[01:05:13] it kind of like goes bad.

[01:05:15] So I don't know how it works.

[01:05:16] The uric acid.

[01:05:17] But that's long.

[01:05:18] That's those days are long beyond

[01:05:19] like behind me.

[01:05:20] But we create this little craft

[01:05:22] fertilizer and it was super cool that

[01:05:24] we could get into the market

[01:05:26] and basically starting a business.

[01:05:28] So there were aspects of that that

[01:05:30] I carried forward as

[01:05:32] I started to get into the path of

[01:05:34] starting my own business.

[01:05:36] But ultimately it failed.

[01:05:38] We kind of ran out

[01:05:40] of a few things.

[01:05:41] One was no one wanted to bring in

[01:05:43] this fish, the shark, because

[01:05:45] it was just taking up space.

[01:05:47] It was kind of seasonal like it would

[01:05:49] chase around some of the

[01:05:51] market fish, but it wasn't always

[01:05:52] reliable to get.

[01:05:54] And then the third was like my friend.

[01:05:55] He didn't have a boat, so

[01:05:57] he didn't he wasn't in control.

[01:06:00] And we

[01:06:02] did one batch of this fertilizer

[01:06:04] that just went completely bad.

[01:06:06] And so things really stalled out.

[01:06:07] But at that

[01:06:09] time, that was the same time that

[01:06:10] this was so 2015.

[01:06:12] That's when Scott Jurek was doing

[01:06:14] his Appalachian speed

[01:06:16] effort.

[01:06:18] And it just happened that he was

[01:06:19] coming through and

[01:06:21] I had spent like a lot of

[01:06:23] the previous year just spending

[01:06:25] all my free time hiking because

[01:06:26] that's all I wanted to be doing.

[01:06:27] I want to be hiking in the

[01:06:28] mountains.

[01:06:30] I'd gotten into some trail

[01:06:32] running and a little bit of

[01:06:33] racing, but

[01:06:35] I still like people knew me as

[01:06:37] like, oh, Andrew's posting a lot

[01:06:38] of photos and videos from

[01:06:40] hiking because

[01:06:42] you know, he must be he

[01:06:44] must be knowledgeable. He must have

[01:06:45] time because he's not working full

[01:06:47] time. But I've been doing this side

[01:06:49] project. So when that

[01:06:51] stalled out, it just was convenient

[01:06:53] that Scott Jurek was coming

[01:06:54] through. And that was

[01:06:56] like a pivotal moment in my

[01:06:58] life where

[01:07:00] I got this feeling of this guy

[01:07:02] is doing something big.

[01:07:03] What am I doing with my life?

[01:07:05] And and so that really was

[01:07:07] a catalyst for me to push

[01:07:09] things with what

[01:07:11] what I was doing in the White

[01:07:12] Mountains. And I when I was

[01:07:14] trying to figure out a job, too, I

[01:07:16] want to do a lot of this adventure

[01:07:18] storytelling and photography.

[01:07:19] Turns out that's a really hard

[01:07:21] hard way to make a living.

[01:07:23] And it's just a really hard

[01:07:24] profession. You've got to you have

[01:07:26] to have a lot of a lot of charisma

[01:07:28] and talent and skill

[01:07:30] and really want to be out there

[01:07:31] doing it because no one no one's

[01:07:33] going to be paying you those early

[01:07:35] early years when you're out there

[01:07:37] doing it. But I still

[01:07:39] found joy in sharing

[01:07:42] imagery and working

[01:07:44] with brands and trying to

[01:07:46] I don't know, I don't know.

[01:07:47] Sort out what I was going to do with

[01:07:48] my life through the mountains.

[01:07:51] Yeah. And back at that time period.

[01:07:53] So you you have an FKT for the

[01:07:55] Deretissima, which

[01:07:57] I think is the supported

[01:07:59] Deretissima. Is that correct?

[01:08:00] Yeah. There's kind of a big

[01:08:02] asterisk on that.

[01:08:03] If I don't

[01:08:05] you know, when I went out to do that,

[01:08:07] I wanted to do it in my own style.

[01:08:09] It wasn't to submit an FKT

[01:08:11] or anything. It was to do

[01:08:13] it in a way that

[01:08:15] I thought

[01:08:18] really involved, got the community

[01:08:20] involved. It showcased the mountains.

[01:08:22] It was real

[01:08:24] time, something fun to follow.

[01:08:27] I guess I can get my friends involved

[01:08:29] and then see what happened and do it

[01:08:31] in a style that no one had done it

[01:08:32] before. No one had really gone

[01:08:34] for like a real speed

[01:08:36] effort.

[01:08:37] So what was unique about it?

[01:08:41] I think the previous people that did

[01:08:42] it did it in eight days

[01:08:44] which really in my mind wasn't

[01:08:46] as fast as you could do it if you really

[01:08:48] strip things down.

[01:08:50] If you've kind of raced it,

[01:08:52] they were like setting their alarm

[01:08:54] to sleeping in to get up and stuff.

[01:08:56] I'm like, well, how much sleep do you

[01:08:57] really need?

[01:08:59] Can you do this with

[01:09:02] I don't know, just trying

[01:09:04] to figure out what I was going to do

[01:09:05] for nutrition and stuff.

[01:09:06] But at the same time,

[01:09:09] what I got

[01:09:11] qualified for supported was

[01:09:13] having people with me because it was

[01:09:15] just like a call to the community.

[01:09:16] Anyone want to come out and hike with

[01:09:17] me? Awesome.

[01:09:19] The reality was I probably hiked

[01:09:21] 70 percent alone.

[01:09:25] I'm trying to think it's been so long

[01:09:26] now, but I also

[01:09:28] cashed some rechargeable

[01:09:30] battery banks for

[01:09:32] so I could keep my

[01:09:35] camera charged.

[01:09:37] So it's weird because technology

[01:09:38] changes and now you have super

[01:09:40] efficient headlamps and

[01:09:43] everything else and everything's

[01:09:45] more high powered or you can get

[01:09:47] away with like my watch

[01:09:49] like I wanted to I bought a soon to

[01:09:51] watch for this.

[01:09:52] I wanted the most accurate vertical

[01:09:54] barometric pressure at the

[01:09:56] time

[01:09:58] way to log everything.

[01:09:59] And I had to keep charging

[01:10:01] that. And I don't remember.

[01:10:03] But like for some reason, I'm like,

[01:10:04] I'm going to have to trade off some

[01:10:05] batteries just so I don't get caught

[01:10:07] not being able to capture what I'm

[01:10:09] doing at the same time.

[01:10:10] So that was the other part that was

[01:10:11] important to me was to make sure that

[01:10:12] I could document everything and not

[01:10:14] be stressed out about running out of

[01:10:16] battery.

[01:10:17] Did you have a like,

[01:10:19] did you have a checkpoint in mind?

[01:10:21] Were you looking to say like, all right,

[01:10:22] at 12 hours, I need to be

[01:10:24] here 24 or

[01:10:26] you know, every day I need to be at a

[01:10:27] certain point or you just you just

[01:10:29] sort of felt

[01:10:31] I had nothing to chase, you know,

[01:10:32] other than what I was

[01:10:34] what I felt like the right move

[01:10:36] at the right time.

[01:10:37] And I would my goal was seven

[01:10:39] days.

[01:10:40] So if I could do this in a week, it

[01:10:42] just sounded nice.

[01:10:43] And I didn't really break it down

[01:10:45] other than

[01:10:48] that first day of thinking of where I

[01:10:49] could go.

[01:10:50] But I made all sorts of mistakes.

[01:10:52] I was super fit and strong, but I

[01:10:54] had no experience

[01:10:56] in doing anything in that style

[01:10:58] before. So I I didn't have enough

[01:11:00] warm clothes. So at night I tried to

[01:11:02] bivvy up on Franconia Ridge and was

[01:11:04] like freezing cold.

[01:11:05] Woke up four a.m.

[01:11:06] You know, went to bed at 10, woke up

[01:11:08] at four and or woke

[01:11:10] up well before that freezing cold

[01:11:12] and just like this

[01:11:14] day after day of just getting beat

[01:11:16] down at night.

[01:11:18] Super exhausted, but also

[01:11:21] really fun because you're going to

[01:11:23] then known and you have no idea

[01:11:25] how this is going to work and how

[01:11:26] your body's going to hold up.

[01:11:27] And so you're doing a lot of

[01:11:29] troubleshooting along the way.

[01:11:32] What time of the year was this?

[01:11:33] Oh, this was like mid summer in

[01:11:34] July, late July.

[01:11:36] OK.

[01:11:37] But you know, you're depleted and

[01:11:38] you're above, you know, you're kind

[01:11:40] of almost above tree line on a ridge

[01:11:41] line, not the best place to stop for

[01:11:43] the night.

[01:11:44] Yeah.

[01:11:45] Yeah, true.

[01:11:46] But it is fun doing that.

[01:11:47] Like me and Stomp have supported

[01:11:48] like some people doing different

[01:11:50] events and stuff like in the middle

[01:11:51] of the night. And it's so much fun.

[01:11:52] Like we got to run out.

[01:11:54] We're going to run up the trail and

[01:11:55] one person's dropping out.

[01:11:56] So we'll hike them back and then we

[01:11:57] got to drive to the next place to

[01:11:59] meet them.

[01:12:00] Make sure they got food.

[01:12:01] It's fun.

[01:12:03] Oh, yeah.

[01:12:04] If you have a sense of purpose and

[01:12:05] why you're doing it, it's there is

[01:12:07] no doubt I wasn't, you know, I was

[01:12:09] going to keep going no matter what.

[01:12:11] And in my mind, I was going to do it

[01:12:13] in hindsight.

[01:12:14] Wow.

[01:12:15] It's super hard.

[01:12:16] And there's so many opportunities

[01:12:18] to jump off trail.

[01:12:21] But I don't know, in my mind, I never

[01:12:23] I never saw it that way.

[01:12:24] And I was I struggled a lot with

[01:12:26] sleep and that caught up with me

[01:12:28] over time.

[01:12:29] And but man, I was just

[01:12:31] but man, what a cool experience.

[01:12:33] And it that that project

[01:12:37] for just shaped the completely

[01:12:39] reshaped the way I look at the

[01:12:40] White Mountains and got me more

[01:12:41] excited than ever to

[01:12:43] to spend my my years here

[01:12:46] in the dirt to some.

[01:12:47] But I haven't looked at this in a lot

[01:12:49] of detail. Like it looks very

[01:12:50] confusing. Every time I look at this,

[01:12:51] I'm like, I'm very confused about

[01:12:53] like what's going on, like what's

[01:12:54] an outback.

[01:12:55] But is the route is basically

[01:12:57] the same. Like it doesn't change.

[01:12:59] Or did you did you mess up your route

[01:13:00] and like how do you do

[01:13:02] Owl's Head? Like I get confused about

[01:13:04] this thing.

[01:13:05] No, my route was my route was good.

[01:13:06] It was traditional.

[01:13:08] I think I look at,

[01:13:10] you know, this is

[01:13:12] where it gets confusing is how you

[01:13:13] interpret the

[01:13:15] the term dirt isama.

[01:13:16] And can

[01:13:18] you drop a pack?

[01:13:19] Can you what

[01:13:21] is the most efficient route?

[01:13:22] Can you go off trail?

[01:13:24] And I think that the whole concept

[01:13:26] of it is really just unsupported

[01:13:28] 48. So everyone

[01:13:30] has now come to an agreement

[01:13:32] that it's like, yeah, you just have to

[01:13:34] connect everything on foot.

[01:13:37] And so, yeah, Owl's Head, that's

[01:13:39] you can tackle that a bunch of

[01:13:41] different ways. But the one I did it,

[01:13:43] I took Lincoln Slide down,

[01:13:45] which I'd never done before.

[01:13:46] So that was really that was exciting

[01:13:48] to wake up the next morning and go do

[01:13:50] that. But you could go easily just go

[01:13:52] over Lafayette like Will Peterson

[01:13:54] did and over Garfield then

[01:13:56] drop down 13 Falls or something, some

[01:13:58] way down there and then Bushwack

[01:14:00] up and back.

[01:14:02] I don't know. It seems like there's

[01:14:04] there. Yeah, I think it's all the same.

[01:14:06] It's just which way do you want to do it?

[01:14:08] Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, that's impressive.

[01:14:10] I don't think I'll ever do that. But maybe we'll

[01:14:12] have to stop. We'll have to recruit him to do

[01:14:14] your lodge to dodge. Are you

[01:14:16] down for any? Are you done with

[01:14:18] that? Done with the crazy stuff?

[01:14:20] Oh, no, I'm all about

[01:14:22] finding what's next

[01:14:24] and every year it's

[01:14:26] really what's going to excite you

[01:14:28] and what's going to keep you motivated

[01:14:30] to go do stuff. Yeah.

[01:14:32] Up on the fastest known time

[01:14:34] site, if you look for the word

[01:14:36] lodge, the number two and then

[01:14:38] dodge, it's 77

[01:14:40] miles from Ravine Lodge at

[01:14:42] Moose Lock to Joe Dodge Lodge,

[01:14:44] but it tacks on the Wildcats

[01:14:46] and there's two runners that

[01:14:48] have done it so far. I'm familiar.

[01:14:50] Yeah, one more

[01:14:52] coming up this spring.

[01:14:54] It's going to give it a try. So it's pretty cool.

[01:14:56] All right. Well, you know, we're planting that

[01:14:58] seed. Planting that seed, Andrew.

[01:15:00] Yeah, I think

[01:15:02] like the hut traverse

[01:15:04] is hard enough.

[01:15:06] Oh yeah. And the

[01:15:08] hut traverse is something that gets

[01:15:10] everyone like just getting the half, getting through

[01:15:12] the halfway point because it's such an easy

[01:15:14] easy bailout. But

[01:15:16] yeah, tackling on, tackling on

[01:15:18] the bonus,

[01:15:20] the extra credit seems like

[01:15:22] torture.

[01:15:24] It's one, yeah, it's

[01:15:26] that much more. I don't know, but it's all,

[01:15:28] like I said, it's all relative and it's

[01:15:30] what's fun is like that

[01:15:32] just training for something like that

[01:15:34] is going to be worth

[01:15:36] all the pain and suffering

[01:15:38] for when you actually go out and do it.

[01:15:40] Yep. Well,

[01:15:42] we'll see. I'm interested. Snop hasn't told

[01:15:44] me any details about this mystery person

[01:15:46] that's going to be doing it. So keep an eye on that.

[01:15:48] Yeah, yeah. Per their request.

[01:15:50] They're just keeping it low key at the moment.

[01:15:52] So Andrew, so now you

[01:15:54] decide to open up this ski shop. Can you

[01:15:56] walk us through like how does that happen?

[01:15:58] Well, yeah. So after

[01:16:00] 2016, I didn't

[01:16:02] I was back at square one running out

[01:16:04] of money, a little stressed

[01:16:06] out about that. And I just had

[01:16:08] a friend that worked for a ski company,

[01:16:10] Fisher Skis. And he said,

[01:16:12] hey, why don't you open up an account with us?

[01:16:14] And I was thinking, oh, maybe

[01:16:16] I could be a ski rep and

[01:16:18] work for him. But it was, you know,

[01:16:20] this is my introduction to

[01:16:22] retail. It's like you open up a dealer

[01:16:24] account and now

[01:16:26] you order the product. You have it in your

[01:16:28] possession and you don't pay for

[01:16:30] whatever your terms are.

[01:16:32] So for Fisher

[01:16:34] it was, I don't know, 90 days or

[01:16:36] something. But that was

[01:16:38] step one is

[01:16:40] all right, now I have a brand

[01:16:42] and I added on a few others after Fisher.

[01:16:44] I added on like Jewelbow.

[01:16:46] They're just eyewear distributed out of Vermont.

[01:16:48] Darn tough. And

[01:16:50] maybe Untapped, also out of

[01:16:52] Vermont. But it turns out there's a lot of ski companies

[01:16:54] based out of the East Coast because that's where

[01:16:56] the closest port to Europe is.

[01:16:58] And

[01:17:00] I was

[01:17:02] all right, so I've got these accounts.

[01:17:04] Now what? And so I

[01:17:06] had no brand and

[01:17:08] I had been logging all my stuff

[01:17:10] on all the

[01:17:12] outdoor activities because I'm more interested in

[01:17:14] backcountry skiing but living

[01:17:16] where we live, I spend more time

[01:17:18] hiking and trail running.

[01:17:20] But I had this, I started a

[01:17:22] blog called Ski the Whites and

[01:17:24] I just rolled that into my

[01:17:26] business. I was like all right, Ski the Whites.

[01:17:28] I can't think of anything that

[01:17:30] sounds like a good business name. And that

[01:17:32] first season,

[01:17:34] 2016, 2017,

[01:17:36] I don't know that I sold anything. I just

[01:17:38] skied a lot. But I had this account

[01:17:40] and this premise of

[01:17:42] all right, this is the gear I'm using. No one

[01:17:44] in the valley is carrying it

[01:17:46] and I want to become

[01:17:48] an expert in what,

[01:17:50] I want to become an expert in this category.

[01:17:52] So I'm going to go ski everything possible.

[01:17:54] And that was, it felt like the

[01:17:56] Wild West because in

[01:17:58] the White Mountains, backcountry skiing

[01:18:00] had been, no one had really shared it

[01:18:02] in the style that I thought

[01:18:04] it could be shared. So just through a bunch

[01:18:06] of YouTube videos, photography,

[01:18:08] people have been backcountry skiing

[01:18:10] here forever and everything

[01:18:12] has been skied. You might think you're

[01:18:14] the first to ski something, but there's

[01:18:16] a very good chance someone else has skied it.

[01:18:18] Sort of like when you're out hiking

[01:18:20] in the forest. You're like someone's probably surveyed

[01:18:22] this. But you feel like you're the first person

[01:18:24] to step foot in some of these areas.

[01:18:26] So anyways,

[01:18:28] that winter fast forward,

[01:18:30] I just skied a lot. The next winter

[01:18:32] I believe

[01:18:34] that 17-18,

[01:18:36] I was trying to think if that was the season

[01:18:38] I moved into Black Mountains.

[01:18:40] Doesn't really matter,

[01:18:42] but it went from this

[01:18:44] idea to

[01:18:46] working out of my truck and my

[01:18:48] storing gear in my basement and I would

[01:18:50] mount up some skis and I would have them

[01:18:52] with demo bindings and I could just

[01:18:54] loan them to you. But no one was really

[01:18:56] buying anything. Then that next season

[01:18:58] I opened up my space, I think at Black

[01:19:00] Mountain ski area in this

[01:19:02] little cube, this little like 10x10

[01:19:04] nursery.

[01:19:06] I didn't know what I was doing there

[01:19:08] either. In hindsight it looks like I was

[01:19:10] making all these decisions and

[01:19:12] figuring things out or I had a plan,

[01:19:14] but I really had no plan. I was just reacting.

[01:19:16] So I had this space and I would rent

[01:19:18] gear out and get people to go

[01:19:20] try out backcountry gear on the

[01:19:22] front side at the resort because

[01:19:24] Black Mountain was allowing people

[01:19:26] to uphill. Then I also saw the mountain

[01:19:28] as an incredible venue to host events.

[01:19:30] So we started this Friday Night

[01:19:32] Light Series there and

[01:19:34] kind of the rest is history where

[01:19:36] it just took off. So I was

[01:19:38] getting in to

[01:19:40] the category that's growing. I

[01:19:42] jumped on board with Granite

[01:19:44] Backcountry Alliance, which is a non-profit

[01:19:46] here in North Conway

[01:19:48] that's main goal is to increase

[01:19:50] the skiable terrain in

[01:19:52] New Hampshire and Maine by

[01:19:54] glading and maintaining

[01:19:56] some of these old ski trails.

[01:19:58] It's like

[01:20:00] you're increasing the lanes of the highway

[01:20:02] and you're adding more cars

[01:20:04] at the same time. It's like the perfect

[01:20:06] relationship.

[01:20:08] So yeah,

[01:20:10] right time, right place, things are growing.

[01:20:12] I'm doing events and then

[01:20:14] building a community.

[01:20:16] Once you have a community that supports you

[01:20:18] and you support them,

[01:20:20] you have this relationship again that

[01:20:22] allows you to grow and

[01:20:24] get to a point where you're just... I just wanted

[01:20:26] to be a resource. So I wanted to spend

[01:20:28] my free time in the mountains, but I also

[01:20:30] wanted to be a resource, provide the gear,

[01:20:32] provide the knowledge, provide the media

[01:20:34] to create this full circle

[01:20:36] effect where now I just

[01:20:38] have a bunch of friends.

[01:20:40] We all know each other and we can go out

[01:20:42] and do fun stuff in the mountains

[01:20:44] and to have a job

[01:20:46] and to have a purpose to be

[01:20:48] here up in

[01:20:50] White Mountains where I'm spending all my free time anyway.

[01:20:52] So that's

[01:20:54] kind of the quick story.

[01:20:56] But I eventually moved into the building

[01:20:58] I'm in now in 2020

[01:21:00] because I was, again,

[01:21:02] another pivotal moment where I'm

[01:21:04] about to turn 40 years old looking around

[01:21:06] and thinking, is this it? Is this my life?

[01:21:08] I don't even know if this is

[01:21:10] sustainable.

[01:21:12] I had to take that next jump

[01:21:14] because there's

[01:21:16] really no other path other than

[01:21:18] alright, you need to get a real

[01:21:20] space and give it a shot

[01:21:22] because you'll just never know. You're not going to

[01:21:24] live under the thumb of Black Mountain

[01:21:26] for the rest of your life. You need to go do something

[01:21:28] for yourself. And it's scary too

[01:21:30] because you're not the only ski shop

[01:21:32] in the valley.

[01:21:34] Although you could argue

[01:21:36] you've got the most unique niche

[01:21:38] but it's competitive.

[01:21:40] Well, you also just think

[01:21:42] you wouldn't do it if you think you're going to fail.

[01:21:44] I think that's how we all approach

[01:21:46] hiking, trail running, whatever.

[01:21:48] It's like you start a project because you think you can do it.

[01:21:50] You're not certain and that's what's

[01:21:52] exciting about it. The uncertainty is exciting

[01:21:54] because you're going to have to deal with all of these

[01:21:56] variables but eventually

[01:21:58] your mindset has to be

[01:22:00] right and that you think you can do it.

[01:22:02] And here we are

[01:22:04] several years later

[01:22:06] and everything's fine.

[01:22:08] I'm going to be okay.

[01:22:10] It's not like every day is easy

[01:22:12] but I'm going to figure it out.

[01:22:14] The hard part's over.

[01:22:16] The hard part was

[01:22:18] being in that limbo of

[01:22:20] is this going to work out?

[01:22:22] Now I know it's going to work out.

[01:22:24] Now where do you want to go?

[01:22:26] And then you've diversified

[01:22:28] so obviously

[01:22:30] the skiing is core but between

[01:22:32] trail running

[01:22:34] and cycling

[01:22:36] I think you get into as well.

[01:22:38] Right.

[01:22:40] We became the cliche ski and bike shop

[01:22:42] as soon as we had this space.

[01:22:44] But no, it was like what are you going to do

[01:22:46] to stay busy in the summertime?

[01:22:48] And man, when I was up at Black Mountain

[01:22:50] I was begging for shoe accounts

[01:22:52] like Dinafit,

[01:22:54] Hoka

[01:22:56] I don't remember who else.

[01:22:58] I would take anything just to get an account

[01:23:00] but they just kept looking at me

[01:23:02] like you're not a traditional brick and mortar

[01:23:04] shop with regular hours

[01:23:06] so why would we open

[01:23:08] an account with you? It's a high risk.

[01:23:10] In my mind I'm like

[01:23:12] what are you talking about?

[01:23:14] Ski stuff is such

[01:23:16] a higher risk and such a higher volume

[01:23:18] of money than buying shoes.

[01:23:20] Buying shoes is pennies

[01:23:22] on the dollar compared to

[01:23:24] what I'm doing every winter and how much

[01:23:26] money I'm burying myself

[01:23:28] to hopefully sell it all

[01:23:30] at the end of the season to come back.

[01:23:32] I was super frustrated with companies

[01:23:34] like Hoka because they were built on

[01:23:36] stepping outside of the norm

[01:23:38] and here I am

[01:23:40] a small shop outside of the norm and they want

[01:23:42] nothing to do with me.

[01:23:44] I was relentless and so

[01:23:46] I just kept

[01:23:48] at it and eventually got an

[01:23:50] account with them and that's been

[01:23:52] nice.

[01:23:54] We could probably now float through without

[01:23:56] summer stuff but

[01:23:58] the bike has been a really core aspect too

[01:24:00] because there also wasn't a high end

[01:24:02] bike shop too and we

[01:24:04] do a little bit of everything but now

[01:24:06] we're into custom high end mountain bikes

[01:24:08] and the mountain bike culture here in the valleys

[01:24:10] just grows.

[01:24:12] Are you keeping an eye

[01:24:14] on the trail system coming in from Portland

[01:24:16] up to Conway?

[01:24:18] Is that going to happen?

[01:24:20] The rec path, yeah, it's moving

[01:24:22] forward.

[01:24:24] That's a rec path.

[01:24:26] It's not like this. We're talking

[01:24:28] like the, I don't know, twelve

[01:24:30] hundred thousand foot mountain bike

[01:24:32] runs off of Cranmore

[01:24:34] where that's bringing

[01:24:36] in a lot of people that want

[01:24:38] to recreate on our trails

[01:24:40] and man, you need the right bike to ride

[01:24:42] those trails.

[01:24:44] We've been doing

[01:24:46] custom builds and work with a bunch of different

[01:24:48] bike brands and getting into

[01:24:50] bikes during COVID was pretty crazy

[01:24:52] but we made it happen

[01:24:54] and now

[01:24:56] it's really easy to

[01:24:58] I guess roll over our customer

[01:25:00] base of skiers. A lot of skiers bike

[01:25:02] not a lot of skiers run.

[01:25:04] Biking, everyone seems to

[01:25:06] bike in some form or fashion whether it's

[01:25:08] gravel, road or mountain bike

[01:25:10] and then you add e-bikes to the equation

[01:25:12] and now it's completely overwhelming

[01:25:14] and starting from scratch

[01:25:16] again and opening up 30 new accounts

[01:25:18] with brands and we're just like

[01:25:20] a few people here in the shop.

[01:25:22] But yeah, to your point

[01:25:24] the rec path is an incredible

[01:25:26] opportunity too to get people out.

[01:25:28] They've connected

[01:25:30] a small segment here

[01:25:32] in North Conway and

[01:25:34] they've got plans to keep that

[01:25:36] going. It's awesome. You can go over

[01:25:38] from Redstone, you can poke

[01:25:40] around over there and then take the rec path

[01:25:42] down to Cranmore and then make

[01:25:44] your way over all the way

[01:25:46] through up to Hurricane. It's awesome over there now.

[01:25:50] Yeah, I mean it's the direction. They're doing stuff here

[01:25:52] in Waterville too. It's crazy.

[01:25:54] It's the direction I want to see the town

[01:25:56] going. We have enough hotels and

[01:25:58] outlets like how about investing a little

[01:26:00] bit more money into recreation?

[01:26:02] Yeah, agreed.

[01:26:04] I want to talk a little bit about

[01:26:06] safety or your advice. So I think

[01:26:08] Stomp and I, we go through sort of

[01:26:10] the record of rescues

[01:26:12] every week and my

[01:26:14] impression as far as the backcountry

[01:26:16] skiing accidents go is that it's

[01:26:18] like a lot of stuff

[01:26:20] in Tarkov and

[01:26:22] sometimes it's just unfortunate. Maybe

[01:26:24] there's an equipment issue.

[01:26:26] I think experience a fair

[01:26:28] amount of time may play into it. Every

[01:26:30] once in a while you'll get an experienced skier that

[01:26:32] does get

[01:26:34] into a situation. But can you talk through

[01:26:36] your perspective or your advice for people that are

[01:26:38] getting into backcountry skiing around

[01:26:40] how to keep it safe and what

[01:26:42] your general philosophy is around that?

[01:26:44] Yeah, I

[01:26:47] think experience

[01:26:49] and education are kind of the

[01:26:51] two cups you're trying to fill

[01:26:53] and you start out

[01:26:55] you got to pick one and a lot of

[01:26:57] people pick the experiential part

[01:26:59] first and sometimes you learn

[01:27:01] things the hard way. But

[01:27:03] I think that the backcountry

[01:27:05] culture has definitely

[01:27:07] is getting

[01:27:09] a little more safety savvy than in

[01:27:11] the past where I'll have

[01:27:13] people come in the shop and they say

[01:27:15] hey I can't go up there, I don't have my

[01:27:17] whatever, my avalanche level one training

[01:27:19] and that's amazing

[01:27:21] I mean to hear that is

[01:27:23] incredible but at the same time you

[01:27:25] have a bunch of people going up there that have

[01:27:27] the blinders on and

[01:27:29] this is their day to go out

[01:27:31] and ski, you know, of the whole year

[01:27:33] maybe they've planned this trip and they're not

[01:27:35] really willing to

[01:27:37] shift their schedule around or don't have the flexibility

[01:27:39] and they're just

[01:27:41] dead set on skiing something and that's

[01:27:43] the trap you can get into.

[01:27:47] I think with the increase in

[01:27:49] just general users

[01:27:51] out there you're going to get an increase in incidents

[01:27:53] part of that is just a numbers game

[01:27:55] and so how do you intercept

[01:27:57] all these people coming in and I think

[01:27:59] there just has to be a lot of outreach

[01:28:01] a lot of public outreach because

[01:28:03] we've had some incidents where

[01:28:05] we live in

[01:28:07] this echo chamber of

[01:28:09] preaching, look at

[01:28:11] the forecast, look at the AVI

[01:28:13] reports

[01:28:15] observations

[01:28:17] get a feel for the

[01:28:19] snowpack, do your

[01:28:21] area one avalanche course

[01:28:23] get your first aid

[01:28:25] do all this stuff, have all the safety

[01:28:27] gear be prepared and

[01:28:29] there's a huge

[01:28:31] I think there's probably a huge demographic

[01:28:33] of people that just bypass that

[01:28:35] and when you're talking about

[01:28:37] being prepared and all the safety the listeners

[01:28:39] on this are probably more people

[01:28:41] that are

[01:28:43] that are going to make

[01:28:45] most of the right choices so

[01:28:47] having people up in

[01:28:49] the ravine in the popular areas to educate

[01:28:51] people has been like I think some of the

[01:28:53] best

[01:28:55] preventative measures possible so a lot of

[01:28:57] the volunteer ski patrol up there and the snow

[01:28:59] rangers do an excellent job

[01:29:01] educating everyone on the day

[01:29:03] because it's so dynamic up there

[01:29:05] of what you might encounter and what you might

[01:29:07] want to consider or not consider

[01:29:09] and have with you so

[01:29:11] I don't know, since I've gotten into

[01:29:13] it back here I've made a ton

[01:29:15] of mistakes, I've gotten away with some

[01:29:17] haven't gotten away with others, I mean I'm

[01:29:19] lucky to be healthy and

[01:29:21] ski another day

[01:29:23] the biggest thing I've taken away

[01:29:25] from anything is just perspective

[01:29:27] and that just comes with time and it's

[01:29:29] hard to tell someone like no this run

[01:29:31] you can ski this another day, another year

[01:29:33] another ten years, like you don't have to go

[01:29:35] do this today and get all

[01:29:37] powder hungry and think that this is

[01:29:39] this is it, I gotta do it today

[01:29:41] and that's something that

[01:29:43] I almost feel like

[01:29:45] you just have to be around

[01:29:47] the environment for long enough

[01:29:49] to really grasp or to be around

[01:29:51] some incidents that kind of shake you to your core

[01:29:53] that forever change you

[01:29:55] yeah, right

[01:29:57] have you experienced any of those types

[01:29:59] of incidents that have shaken you deeply?

[01:30:01] you know I've been

[01:30:03] pretty clean in my

[01:30:05] career I think up there, I have

[01:30:07] been caught in the slide and

[01:30:09] just early season

[01:30:11] trying to get after

[01:30:13] and keep like, you know, see the

[01:30:15] snowpack as it fills in, my friend and I were up

[01:30:17] there and I kind of lost like

[01:30:19] communication with him and made all these mistakes

[01:30:21] in hindsight but it just doesn't

[01:30:23] take much for something to happen where he got

[01:30:25] ahead of me and he took

[01:30:27] he started going up, he went up, we miscommunicated

[01:30:29] he went up further into kind of an

[01:30:31] avalanche like red flag

[01:30:33] where snow was building up and triggered

[01:30:35] a whole release by the time I got up

[01:30:37] close to him he was, he had

[01:30:39] triggered an avalanche and

[01:30:41] that debris like knocked me off my feet

[01:30:43] enough to like isolate

[01:30:45] 100 feet or so and

[01:30:47] that's scary, you know?

[01:30:49] it's like, it wasn't

[01:30:51] a consequential avalanche but it was

[01:30:53] enough to be like yeah this isn't

[01:30:55] you know, there's

[01:30:57] you gotta be serious when you're up here and you

[01:30:59] can't just get complacent because

[01:31:01] this is where you ski most days

[01:31:03] it's like every day is different

[01:31:05] and

[01:31:07] yeah and so kind of like sharing

[01:31:09] your stories too through

[01:31:11] the avalanche center, they've got a really good website

[01:31:13] where you can see incidents

[01:31:15] and observations

[01:31:17] and across the country you can

[01:31:19] go to all these different avalanche websites

[01:31:21] to see what's happening in the snowpack

[01:31:23] so I don't know

[01:31:25] one of the big problems we have is

[01:31:27] that with the user group

[01:31:29] the more educated you get

[01:31:31] the more you're going to go out there

[01:31:33] and kind of truth out

[01:31:35] the conditions for yourself, so now

[01:31:37] you are in avalanche terrain

[01:31:39] and increasing the risk of

[01:31:41] something happening

[01:31:43] yeah and that's where you see every once in a while

[01:31:45] you'll see somebody experienced or a group

[01:31:47] that gets in trouble, that doesn't happen often

[01:31:49] what about actually, that's another good

[01:31:51] question, so you talk about skiing with your buddy like

[01:31:53] solo skiing

[01:31:55] my experience like, I see a lot of

[01:31:57] backcountry skiers when I'm on the presidentials

[01:31:59] in the winter and it's always like a group of

[01:32:01] like, which is cool, it's always like a group

[01:32:03] of six or eight people and you know

[01:32:05] I'm a weekend hiker mostly so maybe that's

[01:32:07] just because of the weekend but do you tend to

[01:32:09] see people going out

[01:32:11] in larger groups or do you recommend that people

[01:32:13] stick in groups

[01:32:15] or do you not? Yeah, I don't know

[01:32:17] I'm a bit of a hypocrite

[01:32:19] in the sense that I

[01:32:21] I chase the conditions

[01:32:23] so if there's a window for me to get out

[01:32:25] it might not, there's a chance

[01:32:27] it's not going to line up

[01:32:29] with someone else's schedule and risk tolerance

[01:32:31] and that can be really

[01:32:33] challenging and

[01:32:35] I go through this mental gymnastics

[01:32:37] of, is this safe?

[01:32:39] Should I be doing this?

[01:32:41] We're always trying to make the

[01:32:43] best decisions possible but

[01:32:45] number one, going out alone you

[01:32:47] immediately eliminate that chance

[01:32:49] for a quick rescue

[01:32:51] and that could be anything from

[01:32:53] a sliding fall

[01:32:55] a burial

[01:32:57] just something small that could

[01:32:59] turn into something bigger

[01:33:01] and so

[01:33:03] I struggle with that

[01:33:05] but I have such a comfort zone

[01:33:07] in traveling alone that it's

[01:33:09] I don't know, it's been so normalized

[01:33:11] in my mind that

[01:33:13] I never go out thinking

[01:33:15] I have my avalanche

[01:33:17] gear, my safety gear, my beacon

[01:33:19] my GPS

[01:33:21] and all this stuff that

[01:33:23] I'm fine, I don't have to think about

[01:33:25] anything about safety anymore

[01:33:27] but it's something where

[01:33:29] I've been skiing my whole life

[01:33:31] so a lot of it feels very commonplace

[01:33:35] I try to get out with ski partners

[01:33:37] when I can but I'm not the best

[01:33:39] I guess I'm not the best example of that

[01:33:41] I'll go out at night

[01:33:43] or on these super long tours and it's like

[01:33:45] who else wants to do that?

[01:33:47] Not as many people want to do it and do I just

[01:33:49] not go because I don't have a ski partner

[01:33:51] and that's

[01:33:53] so up to the individual

[01:33:55] to make those choices

[01:33:57] Yeah, I agree

[01:33:59] I know you said

[01:34:01] everybody's skied everywhere

[01:34:03] and even if you think they haven't

[01:34:05] do you have a white whale, like a target

[01:34:07] that you haven't got to?

[01:34:09] Stomp would probably say

[01:34:11] his was the Mount Lowell Chute

[01:34:13] which he climbed in a bicycle helmet

[01:34:15] but do you have anything like that

[01:34:17] that you've been looking at skiing but you never got to?

[01:34:19] That's hilarious you say that because

[01:34:21] I look at that, I don't look at

[01:34:23] Mount Lowell Chute but I look at the face next to it

[01:34:25] with the cliff band

[01:34:27] and I wanted to ski that and rappel off the cliff

[01:34:29] and I went out there twice on skis

[01:34:31] to look at it and it was just like never good

[01:34:33] but aesthetically beautiful

[01:34:35] so I

[01:34:37] look at some stuff as what I would like to call

[01:34:39] fine art skiing

[01:34:41] it's not about the skiing, it's about putting yourself

[01:34:43] in this spot in the White Mountains

[01:34:45] that if you photographed

[01:34:47] it would look just incredible

[01:34:51] I think

[01:34:53] I chase those days, I have so many matches

[01:34:55] per winter to go

[01:34:57] do dumb stuff and get these experiences

[01:34:59] that it's refreshing

[01:35:01] to go somewhere new

[01:35:03] you might suffer a lot along the way

[01:35:05] just to get there but

[01:35:07] it's like you get this something

[01:35:09] another data point to add

[01:35:11] to your system of places you've been

[01:35:15] so that said

[01:35:17] there aren't many places that

[01:35:19] I'm dying to go, I think I checked

[01:35:21] a lot of that stuff off early on

[01:35:23] I mean we just haven't had

[01:35:25] the winters to really give you the full freedom

[01:35:27] to go everywhere

[01:35:29] I think in 2017 was

[01:35:31] a remarkable winter where we had

[01:35:33] a cold stretch where

[01:35:35] we got snow and then it just stayed cold

[01:35:37] and we don't get that very often anymore

[01:35:39] so to ski a lot of the slides and riverbeds

[01:35:41] you really want a super cold winter

[01:35:43] where it just stays cold, you don't need

[01:35:45] that much snow, it just needs to stay cold

[01:35:47] and so skiing

[01:35:49] stuff in every

[01:35:51] range, every wilderness zone

[01:35:53] there's skiing everywhere

[01:35:55] it's hard to

[01:35:57] I live 10 minutes

[01:35:59] from the trailhead to some of the best skiing

[01:36:01] I think in the world and it's like

[01:36:03] what's going to draw you out of there

[01:36:05] to go ski something else and I think that's

[01:36:07] something where I struggle with that now

[01:36:09] because Tuckerman Ravine

[01:36:11] is the spot, it gets the most

[01:36:13] snow, it's the most reliable

[01:36:15] and in my free time as it

[01:36:17] gets less and less now that I work more

[01:36:19] it's like I want to ski

[01:36:21] I don't necessarily want to go out

[01:36:23] on this 8 hour adventure to maybe

[01:36:25] ski something in the Pemi that doesn't go

[01:36:29] so I don't know

[01:36:31] I say that but

[01:36:33] I'm down for an adventure

[01:36:35] once or twice a year

[01:36:37] there's nothing like top of mind

[01:36:39] that I'm like wow if I skied that, that would be it

[01:36:41] I think that there's

[01:36:43] incredible lines

[01:36:45] in say Webster Cliffs

[01:36:47] I think of like

[01:36:49] the geographical features of these tight

[01:36:51] bars and just really beautiful

[01:36:53] skiing to be had but you just need the right conditions

[01:36:55] to make it worth it so just

[01:36:57] going to ski something and say you skied it is one

[01:36:59] thing and I just want to ski

[01:37:01] the best conditions possible and that's

[01:37:03] kind of where my mind's shifted

[01:37:05] the early years were

[01:37:07] let's go explore, let's go find

[01:37:09] this

[01:37:11] photo where someone skied or

[01:37:13] something you saw in the summer time and

[01:37:15] think about is this

[01:37:17] worth going to and then

[01:37:19] now it's like yeah let's

[01:37:21] still have some of those adventures but let's go find

[01:37:23] the best skiing possible

[01:37:25] I liken that to

[01:37:27] Webster Cliff, holy moly

[01:37:29] you woke Stomp up here

[01:37:31] he's been eyeing that

[01:37:33] I don't think I've ever seen snow on that

[01:37:35] he's been trying to get me to climb that with him

[01:37:37] for the last couple of years

[01:37:39] well the perfect

[01:37:41] example is last winter

[01:37:43] last March I skied

[01:37:45] I did a presidential

[01:37:47] traverse on skis

[01:37:49] and that for the longest time was something

[01:37:51] that I would never do

[01:37:53] I would never consider because it's so contrived

[01:37:55] just to say you did it on skis

[01:37:57] big deal

[01:37:59] what fun is that

[01:38:01] but then the more I thought about it

[01:38:03] it's a bit of a puzzle

[01:38:05] in efficiency

[01:38:07] do you have your skis on, do you hike this

[01:38:09] how do you get from Madison

[01:38:11] do you have to go out and back on Madison on foot

[01:38:13] and eventually I found

[01:38:15] out there's ski runs

[01:38:17] off every mountain

[01:38:19] and that part made it incredibly

[01:38:21] fun and exciting

[01:38:23] can you do the whole presidential traverse

[01:38:25] can you ski off every peak

[01:38:27] I ended up doing it

[01:38:29] and I found a new

[01:38:31] I was able to ski off the east side of Madison

[01:38:33] I was able to ski off Eisenhower

[01:38:35] a line down into one of the

[01:38:37] drainages, I was able to ski

[01:38:39] all the way down the Crawford Path

[01:38:41] which was incredibly fun

[01:38:43] everything else in between

[01:38:45] and I had some of the best skiing I had all winter

[01:38:47] and it was over like

[01:38:49] a 14, I think a

[01:38:51] 14 hour day and I did

[01:38:53] maybe an extra 7000 feet

[01:38:55] but it was

[01:38:57] it didn't feel like it

[01:38:59] it was just the whole time I was having a blast

[01:39:01] and that was a

[01:39:03] shift in mindset of

[01:39:05] some of these things you kind of write off and you say

[01:39:07] no, not for me

[01:39:09] it all goes back to what makes you excited

[01:39:11] you can find

[01:39:13] an angle or a slant

[01:39:15] in any of these goals or activities

[01:39:17] then

[01:39:19] yeah, I'm not

[01:39:21] I'm not quick to judge

[01:39:23] anyone on what makes them happy

[01:39:25] because I've done a lot of stupid stuff

[01:39:27] and a lot of things that I'm sure

[01:39:29] many other people think

[01:39:31] wow, that guy

[01:39:33] I would never do that

[01:39:35] I'm curious

[01:39:37] and I've always wondered this

[01:39:39] if you're going down the regular

[01:39:41] hiking trails, so if you're skiing down

[01:39:43] crosswood path, like you don't have

[01:39:45] a lot of room to

[01:39:47] go back and forth, are you just going

[01:39:49] straight down or how do you

[01:39:51] I mean, I'm a pretty experienced skier

[01:39:53] but like I need some room to operate

[01:39:55] and those trails don't give me that room

[01:39:57] so I'm just curious, how do you do that?

[01:39:59] It's

[01:40:01] a bit of a bobsled run

[01:40:03] you go in and out of the track so you speed control

[01:40:05] by jumping in the fresh snow

[01:40:07] so conditions matter

[01:40:09] luckily most of the

[01:40:11] below tree lines

[01:40:13] conditions are going to be softer and once you get in that

[01:40:15] fresh snow it's easy to speed check

[01:40:17] and then pick your speed back up by getting in the trail

[01:40:19] and that trail

[01:40:21] on the Valley Way Trail

[01:40:23] or if you're exiting King Ravine

[01:40:25] on any of those trails

[01:40:27] on the short line

[01:40:29] it's super fast and efficient

[01:40:31] you can get out of there in no time

[01:40:33] and obviously you're looking out for hikers

[01:40:35] it's the hours we're out there

[01:40:37] it's generally pretty quiet still and it's easy

[01:40:39] to see in front of you. Got it, so you're looking

[01:40:41] for openings off the side of the trail to get into

[01:40:43] to slow your speed down.

[01:40:45] Wow, well

[01:40:47] Stomp, this guy is an animal

[01:40:51] So Andrew, very impressive

[01:40:53] let's plug some of your stuff

[01:40:55] so the name of the store is White Mountain Ski Company

[01:40:57] are you still

[01:40:59] doing a podcast?

[01:41:01] When I need to, yeah

[01:41:03] it's just another tool to get the word out

[01:41:05] we do, they're mostly event podcasts

[01:41:07] we do Backyard Ultra

[01:41:09] we have a Backyard Ultra in the fall and we do

[01:41:11] a Last Gear Standing

[01:41:13] in February and we usually

[01:41:15] do a preview podcast with that

[01:41:17] but if someone does something in the Whites and it

[01:41:19] lines up and I have time

[01:41:21] it's always fun to chat with people

[01:41:23] it's such a good way

[01:41:25] I mean I love podcasts so it's such a good way

[01:41:27] to communicate and get information out

[01:41:29] I used to do a podcast

[01:41:31] with the Snow Rangers

[01:41:33] as another way to do some public outreach

[01:41:35] and with skiers

[01:41:37] or wintertime and some trail running

[01:41:39] but

[01:41:41] I don't know, it's just one more thing

[01:41:43] yeah, plugging the shop

[01:41:45] White Mountain Ski Co. we're here in Jackson

[01:41:47] a ski bike run

[01:41:49] and coffee so we roast our own coffee as well

[01:41:51] I got into it

[01:41:53] as soon as I got this building

[01:41:55] I got a coffee roaster and my friend Pierre and I

[01:41:57] just went for it

[01:41:59] and here we are four years later

[01:42:01] and we have a solid coffee following

[01:42:03] and it's a really

[01:42:05] cool part of the business

[01:42:07] is flexing a different

[01:42:09] muscle in your brain

[01:42:11] that it's

[01:42:13] not just, I don't know

[01:42:15] it's not just more ski talk

[01:42:17] it's coffee and experimenting with

[01:42:19] different varieties so that's been

[01:42:21] a lot of fun and then

[01:42:25] yeah, I don't know

[01:42:27] I like your Instagram, you got some awesome

[01:42:29] videos and pictures on there

[01:42:31] yeah, events are

[01:42:33] the coolest thing so retail

[01:42:35] I don't, I mean it's, I like the stuff

[01:42:37] we sell, it's good gear

[01:42:39] but the events

[01:42:41] are where it's at, it's fun to be around people

[01:42:43] I work on the weekends so I usually

[01:42:45] don't get out to socialize

[01:42:47] on the weekends

[01:42:49] but hopefully now that

[01:42:51] things get a little older here

[01:42:53] at the shop and I've got

[01:42:55] a really great staff that can

[01:42:57] cover me but we have

[01:42:59] a trail series starting

[01:43:01] up at the end of the month called Friday Night Vertical

[01:43:03] at Cranmore so every Friday night

[01:43:05] from 6pm to 8pm you can run

[01:43:07] or hike up Cranmore

[01:43:09] have pizza after, meet up with

[01:43:11] other friends, I know we've got

[01:43:13] it's really great to

[01:43:15] watch people create this

[01:43:17] create friendships and find

[01:43:19] hiking partners, ski partners

[01:43:21] at these events because all of a sudden

[01:43:23] you're going up and someone's your same speed

[01:43:25] and you get chatting and well

[01:43:27] what are you going to do tomorrow and people start

[01:43:29] talking about their objectives and

[01:43:31] link up and

[01:43:33] that's been really fun, we host

[01:43:35] let's see other events, we host

[01:43:37] 10k road race so if you're a roadrunner

[01:43:39] in Jackson

[01:43:41] it's got to be, it's like 40th year, it was a

[01:43:43] historic 10k, one of the hardest

[01:43:45] 10ks here with one big

[01:43:47] climb and one big descent

[01:43:49] so that's in

[01:43:51] that's August 9th I

[01:43:53] believe and we

[01:43:55] brought in a turkey trot, we have a

[01:43:57] nighttime trail race, we have a bunch of stuff, they're all events

[01:43:59] are going to be on our website but

[01:44:01] if I can emphasize anything

[01:44:03] it's yeah, it's

[01:44:05] meet people in the community

[01:44:07] and the best way to do that is to show up

[01:44:09] to events. Yeah, that sounds

[01:44:11] great, I've done the Cranmore races

[01:44:13] before, I think I ran the one where they had

[01:44:15] the National Mountain

[01:44:17] Race Championship, that was crazy

[01:44:19] That's a hard one, that's a very

[01:44:21] hard one. Oh yeah, for sure. Can I put in a special

[01:44:23] request for you for events?

[01:44:25] I don't know if you've heard of this but like

[01:44:27] you should bring back the Wildman Biathlon

[01:44:29] Oh yeah, I did that once

[01:44:31] Yeah, I've done that a couple times but I don't think

[01:44:33] they do it anymore but that'd be a good one to bring back

[01:44:35] so think about it

[01:44:37] Yeah, I do

[01:44:39] I know you get a lot on your plate but

[01:44:41] I know, I just want to give all the race directors so much

[01:44:43] credit for what they do because

[01:44:45] it's

[01:44:47] it's a crazy

[01:44:49] market to be in

[01:44:51] because you're

[01:44:53] butting up against people's summer schedules

[01:44:55] and weekend schedules

[01:44:57] and yeah, the work, the planning and making

[01:44:59] sure that the stress to make sure everyone

[01:45:01] has a good time, everyone's safe

[01:45:03] there's some great ideas out there

[01:45:05] and yeah, the Wildman was

[01:45:07] really cool. Oh yeah

[01:45:09] Because there was that

[01:45:11] one and then it

[01:45:13] I don't know if the top notch try was the week before

[01:45:15] or after but

[01:45:17] another similar event

[01:45:19] and you say the

[01:45:21] Wildman is kind of the catalyst of

[01:45:23] my

[01:45:25] one of the things that pushed me into all this

[01:45:27] endurance stuff was watching

[01:45:29] some of the

[01:45:31] top guys and girls compete

[01:45:33] there and

[01:45:35] I just had my hands in my pockets being like

[01:45:37] what am I doing?

[01:45:39] I should do this and I came back and I

[01:45:41] started training for all this stuff and

[01:45:43] I think that some of

[01:45:45] that phase is like I'm good

[01:45:47] I think I did a lot of that

[01:45:49] those competitive races

[01:45:51] but they're a blast

[01:45:53] to be at. Yeah, the Wildman

[01:45:55] was what got me into road cycling

[01:45:57] because I was a runner, I am a

[01:45:59] runner and through the 10k

[01:46:01] I think I was in like fifth place or something

[01:46:03] and I had like a huffy mountain bike

[01:46:05] and I was like ah just ride it up, it'll be fine

[01:46:07] and by the time I got to Wildcat

[01:46:09] I think I was in last place so

[01:46:11] I just got passed by everyone, I'm like what do these people

[01:46:13] what are these arrow bars and all this stuff

[01:46:15] so like next week I bought a

[01:46:17] road bike, I was like I'll never let this happen again

[01:46:19] and I think I did the Wildman

[01:46:21] two more times after that which was fun

[01:46:23] Yeah, such

[01:46:25] a hard, hard event

[01:46:27] Yeah, it's brutal but

[01:46:29] Stomp, did I miss anything? Did we cover

[01:46:31] all the topics that you wanted me

[01:46:33] to cover with Andrew?

[01:46:35] Yeah, I think so. I was going to ask you about

[01:46:37] the coffee. I'm glad you brought that up Andrew

[01:46:39] but yeah, this has been fantastic

[01:46:41] and thank you for coming on

[01:46:43] and keep us posted, you know

[01:46:45] we're happy to plug anything

[01:46:47] that comes along, we can throw it up on the Instagram

[01:46:49] for you and whatever else so

[01:46:51] No, thank you guys and yeah

[01:46:53] especially thanks to your listeners

[01:46:55] whoever threw my

[01:46:57] name in the hat so it's cool to

[01:46:59] chat with you guys and your listeners

[01:47:01] we live in a

[01:47:03] really cool area

[01:47:05] so it doesn't matter if you're

[01:47:07] a hiker, trail runner, skier

[01:47:09] we all have this common bond

[01:47:11] and kind of running

[01:47:13] the circles don't fully overlap

[01:47:15] you know, the hikers and skiers as much as

[01:47:17] you'd think they would but maybe I can

[01:47:19] recruit some of your hikers over to my side

[01:47:21] Yes, yeah

[01:47:23] I'll try to make the commitment to get out and do a little bit more

[01:47:25] and get off the resorts

[01:47:27] and get into the backcountry

[01:47:29] Awesome, well thanks again

[01:47:31] Thank you Andrew

[01:47:33] Alright Stomp, that was pretty cool

[01:47:40] Andrew is a good dude

[01:47:42] And a surfer, who knew?

[01:47:44] A surfer, yep

[01:47:46] That's so exciting

[01:47:48] That was the first place I surfed

[01:47:50] was out in Huntington Beach

[01:47:52] one of the first times I surfed

[01:47:54] and all I had was just memories of

[01:47:56] renting a waterlogged surfboard

[01:47:58] that just would not catch a wave

[01:48:00] what a nightmare

[01:48:02] but he's a super impressive dude

[01:48:04] I love the fact that he's an entrepreneur

[01:48:06] and pulled it off

[01:48:08] it's not easy, but he made a niche

[01:48:10] for himself and there you go

[01:48:12] so that was great

[01:48:14] Yeah, no, it was fantastic

[01:48:16] and thanks again Andrew

[01:48:18] and yeah, we'll include all of

[01:48:20] his info in our

[01:48:22] show notes so you can check it out

[01:48:24] and now Stomp

[01:48:26] we are going to go into one more

[01:48:28] sponsor before we get into the recent

[01:48:30] search and rescue news

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[01:50:02] Very good Stomp

[01:50:04] so moving into

[01:50:06] recent search and rescue news

[01:50:08] we've got two national stories

[01:50:10] both of which

[01:50:12] are good

[01:50:14] and we're going to talk about

[01:50:16] the search and rescue

[01:50:18] and rescue news

[01:50:20] and the search and rescue

[01:50:28] and rescue news

[01:50:30] and the search and rescue

[01:50:32] and rescue news

[01:50:34] and the search and rescue

[01:50:36] both of which are good

[01:50:38] this first

[01:50:40] one is a story about a

[01:50:42] hiker that was killed by a falling rock

[01:50:44] named Mount Whitney

[01:50:46] so deputies

[01:50:48] had reported this is the third fatality

[01:50:50] on Mount Whitney

[01:50:52] in the Mount Whitney region in a week

[01:50:54] so this hiker died on Sunday

[01:50:56] marking the

[01:50:58] third fatality

[01:51:00] the hiker was hit by a falling rock Sunday morning

[01:51:02] in the area of the North Fork

[01:51:04] of Lone Pine Creek

[01:51:06] the Sheriff's Office said

[01:51:08] search and rescue teams scrambled to begin the

[01:51:10] rescue efforts but officials determined

[01:51:12] that the hiker's injuries were fatal

[01:51:14] California Highway

[01:51:16] Patrol helicopter assisted

[01:51:18] hoisting the body of the hiker from the mountain

[01:51:20] and taking the hiker to Lone Pine before they were

[01:51:22] turned over to the

[01:51:24] Inyo County Coroner's Office

[01:51:26] so they haven't

[01:51:28] identified the

[01:51:30] hiker publicly but this was

[01:51:32] the third recovery this week

[01:51:34] earlier in the week

[01:51:36] two climbers died on California's

[01:51:38] highest peak

[01:51:40] they were identified as

[01:51:42] a 28 year old and a 29

[01:51:44] year old

[01:51:46] looks like it was a boyfriend girlfriend

[01:51:48] situation and

[01:51:50] the 29 year old girlfriend

[01:51:52] had just completed her doctoral

[01:51:54] studies in physics at UC

[01:51:56] Davis. They were

[01:51:58] apparently dating, they were outdoor enthusiasts

[01:52:00] and they had taken a long term hiking trip around

[01:52:02] the state. County

[01:52:04] Sheriff's Office warns that early spring

[01:52:06] conditions are still prevalent on the

[01:52:08] mountain with treacherous deep snow

[01:52:10] and loose rock and variable weather

[01:52:12] stay together

[01:52:14] if you're venturing into Mount Whitney

[01:52:16] and turn around before conditions

[01:52:18] deteriorate and become unmanageable

[01:52:20] make responsible decisions

[01:52:22] and be prepared and fit

[01:52:24] so that's a rough area

[01:52:26] out there in California's highest summit

[01:52:28] that's terrible

[01:52:30] that's not uncommon out here either

[01:52:32] I mean it happens

[01:52:34] there's been reports over the last few years

[01:52:36] people getting hit with falling rock

[01:52:38] yeah you don't think about

[01:52:40] falling rock a lot matter of fact

[01:52:42] the first time that I really started realizing

[01:52:44] it and this is a stupid thing for us to be

[01:52:46] doing but the first time I went down

[01:52:48] the Lincoln slide I was just hanging out

[01:52:50] at the bottom of Lincoln slide

[01:52:52] and it didn't even occur to me

[01:52:54] the first time as I'm standing there

[01:52:56] talking and laughing and taking pictures

[01:52:58] I'm like you know there's these

[01:53:00] 40 ton boulders that are

[01:53:02] just being held up by sand

[01:53:04] and pebbles

[01:53:06] that could let loose at any point in time

[01:53:08] and you're sort of like in the bottom of that

[01:53:10] slide just hanging out having a grand old

[01:53:12] time so you do need to be

[01:53:14] aware sometimes like you can trigger

[01:53:16] a big giant boulder

[01:53:18] to come on top of you in some of these

[01:53:20] areas yeah especially these places like

[01:53:22] what is it below Mount Willard or

[01:53:24] Frankenstein Cliff

[01:53:26] I mean there are several other places

[01:53:28] but it's always something to be aware of

[01:53:30] and to look into when you're going on your

[01:53:32] hike yeah coming up

[01:53:34] the Watcher that's another one that's got a bunch

[01:53:36] of like loose rock there's a ton

[01:53:38] of dangerous areas that you just

[01:53:40] you don't think about

[01:53:42] it but until you've gone

[01:53:44] there a couple times and you realize it

[01:53:46] but you need to pay attention

[01:53:48] for sure

[01:53:50] yep alright

[01:53:52] this next one is just a short

[01:53:54] story so this is a 17 year old

[01:53:56] kid that I guess he

[01:53:58] had gone for an afternoon walk

[01:54:00] they're reporting him

[01:54:02] as a juvenile so him

[01:54:04] and his companions became walking from his residence

[01:54:06] around noon and they weren't equipped with hiking

[01:54:08] gear food or water one of the

[01:54:10] companions sent a text to the

[01:54:12] juvenile's mother at 340

[01:54:14] saying that the group had reached the other side of a wooded

[01:54:16] area and that

[01:54:18] the son had re-entered the woods

[01:54:20] to return home via the walking trails

[01:54:22] the kid didn't return

[01:54:24] by 630 so the mother was

[01:54:26] like oh boy I gotta call the police

[01:54:28] so

[01:54:30] by 7 o'clock

[01:54:32] the kid had emerged safely from the

[01:54:34] woods without assistance so he had a

[01:54:36] little vision quest himself

[01:54:38] good outcome absolutely

[01:54:40] cool

[01:54:42] it's not the worst thing in the world to get lost

[01:54:44] in the woods when you're a 17 year old for

[01:54:46] a day it's better than playing

[01:54:50] video games right? well not for the parents

[01:54:52] anyway but well yeah true

[01:54:54] don't scare your mom don't scare mom

[01:54:56] so speaking of

[01:54:58] scared moms this is another one that involved a

[01:55:00] bunch of kids so

[01:55:02] this is crazy so around 9pm

[01:55:04] on May 11th the fishing

[01:55:06] game was notified of a group of hikers

[01:55:08] on the flumeslide trail

[01:55:10] who called for help

[01:55:12] the group was approximately 3 miles from

[01:55:14] the liberty springs trailhead at

[01:55:16] the Franconia notch

[01:55:18] state park bike path

[01:55:20] they were coming down the flume slide

[01:55:22] but could no longer continue because they had no

[01:55:24] lights and didn't have the equipment to

[01:55:26] overnight on the mountains

[01:55:28] so a rescue was initiated

[01:55:30] because of the risk from cold temperatures

[01:55:32] in the unprepared state of the group

[01:55:34] conservation officers

[01:55:36] reached the 26 year old

[01:55:38] hike leader who had a

[01:55:40] group of 3

[01:55:42] young teenagers

[01:55:44] ages 13 and 14 all from

[01:55:46] the Boston area so

[01:55:48] call comes in at 9 o'clock

[01:55:50] conservation officers reached them

[01:55:52] at 1135

[01:55:54] and the hikers were provided with lights

[01:55:56] and some food so that they can continue

[01:55:58] carefully descending the trail

[01:56:00] they eventually reached

[01:56:02] the bike path at

[01:56:04] 1.50am without

[01:56:06] further incident and then they were

[01:56:08] transported to their vehicle at liberty springs

[01:56:10] parking lot so apparently they

[01:56:12] started in liberty springs so that's the right

[01:56:14] thing to do. Went to mount liberty

[01:56:16] and then over to mount flume

[01:56:18] and then the dangerous decision

[01:56:20] was made to descend the flume

[01:56:22] slide trail in order to loop back

[01:56:24] I think people do this all the time because they look

[01:56:26] at the distance on the map without looking

[01:56:28] at the contour lines and they go oh well

[01:56:30] that's not that bad it's only 3

[01:56:32] 4 miles but it's like straight

[01:56:34] uphill or straight downhill so

[01:56:36] strongly recommended not

[01:56:38] to descend the flume

[01:56:40] slide trail if you don't

[01:56:42] know what you're doing especially if you don't have a headlamp

[01:56:44] well especially at this time of the year

[01:56:46] because there are patches of ice and it's

[01:56:48] wet and you need traction sometimes

[01:56:50] but so they measured

[01:56:52] that distance what 3 miles you said

[01:56:54] from the flume gorge?

[01:56:56] They said 3 miles I don't know about that

[01:56:58] that would take them below the actual

[01:57:00] ascent so that would be on the flat

[01:57:02] before you get to the slabs

[01:57:04] which would be a good thing

[01:57:06] but it just reminds me

[01:57:08] there was a rescue several years ago

[01:57:10] with two teenagers that got stuck

[01:57:12] way high up on the slabs

[01:57:14] probably at about

[01:57:16] like 3000 feet or so and they didn't

[01:57:18] have traction and all that stuff

[01:57:20] had to be taken down

[01:57:22] so it's not the place to be goofing around

[01:57:24] if you don't have the right gear

[01:57:26] no doubt I mean it was a long

[01:57:28] haul for them I mean if the conservation officers

[01:57:30] made it to them at 1130 and they didn't

[01:57:32] get back down until close to 2

[01:57:34] so then it took them 2 1 half hours to

[01:57:36] get down so they were probably pretty high up

[01:57:38] yeah for sure makes sense

[01:57:40] I don't know what the deal is

[01:57:42] with the kids and the age difference

[01:57:44] but I don't know if it was like a

[01:57:46] camp situation or

[01:57:48] what the deal is but

[01:57:50] I'm sure the kids were nervous but I'm glad

[01:57:52] that everything

[01:57:54] it's pretty impressive that the conservation officers were able to get up

[01:57:56] there that quickly you know

[01:57:58] 2 1 half hours from the phone call to get up

[01:58:00] the flume slide is pretty good

[01:58:02] not bad at all yeah

[01:58:04] I'm sure they weren't too happy

[01:58:06] I'm like driving around my shift's almost

[01:58:08] done and then you get that call and you're like

[01:58:10] alright well I guess I'm hiking tonight

[01:58:12] yeah who knows I mean those officers

[01:58:14] are like salt of the earth

[01:58:16] a lot of them just love getting out there

[01:58:18] so

[01:58:20] it's an interesting week

[01:58:22] interesting episode

[01:58:24] it is an interesting week Stomp

[01:58:26] and thanks again to Andrew

[01:58:28] for joining us and

[01:58:30] we're going to get out and we're going to hike and then we'll

[01:58:32] see you next week we got another cool guest

[01:58:34] coming up on episode

[01:58:36] 153 so thank you for listening

[01:58:38] and we will be back

[01:58:40] alright later

[01:58:44] Thank you for listening

[01:58:46] If you enjoyed the show you can subscribe

[01:58:48] on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

[01:58:50] Podbean, YouTube

[01:58:52] or wherever

[01:58:54] you listen to podcasts

[01:58:56] If you want to learn more about the topics

[01:58:58] covered in today's show please check out

[01:59:00] the show notes and safety information

[01:59:02] at slasherpodcast.com

[01:59:04] that's

[01:59:06] S-L-A-S-R

[01:59:08] podcast.com

[01:59:10] You can also follow the show on

[01:59:12] Facebook and Instagram

[01:59:14] We hope you'll join us next week for another

[01:59:16] great show. Until then

[01:59:18] on behalf of Mike and Stomp

[01:59:20] Get out there and crush

[01:59:22] some mega

[01:59:24] peaks

[01:59:26] Now covered in scratches, blisters

[01:59:28] and bug bites, Chris Staff wanted

[01:59:30] to complete his most challenging day hike

[01:59:32] ever. Fish and Game officers

[01:59:34] say the hiker from Florida

[01:59:36] activated an emergency beacon yesterday

[01:59:38] morning. He was

[01:59:40] hiking along the Appalachian Trail when

[01:59:42] the weather started to get worse

[01:59:44] Officials say the snow was piled up to

[01:59:46] 3 feet in some spots and there was a

[01:59:48] wind chill of minus 1 degree

[01:59:50] There's three words

[01:59:52] to describe this race. Do we all know

[01:59:54] what they are? Only one

[01:59:56] hill!

[01:59:58] I'm Lieutenant James Neelan, New Hampshire Fish and Game

[02:00:00] Thanks for being with us today

[02:00:02] Thanks for having me

[02:00:04] What are some of the most common mistakes you see people

[02:00:06] make when they're heading out on the trails to hike here in New Hampshire?

[02:00:08] It seems to me the most common is being unprepared

[02:00:10] I think if they just simply visited

[02:00:12] Hikesafe.com and got a list

[02:00:14] of the 10 essential items and had those in their

[02:00:16] packs, they probably would have no need

[02:00:18] to ever call us at all