Episode 154 - Kimball Rexford from TrailsNH, 1983 Mt. Washington History Segment, Grand Traverse, Boott Spur hikes

[00:00:03] Here is the latest Higher Summits Forecast brought to you by our friends at the Mount

[00:00:13] Washington Observatory.

[00:00:19] Weather above treeline in the White Mountains is often wildly different than at our trailheads.

[00:00:26] Before you hike, check the Higher Summits Forecast at mountwashington.org.

[00:00:32] Weather observers working at the non-profit Mount Washington Observatory write this elevation-based

[00:00:38] forecast every morning and afternoon.

[00:00:42] Search and Rescue teams, avalanche experts, and backcountry guides all rely on the Higher

[00:00:47] Summits Forecast to anticipate weather conditions above treeline.

[00:00:52] You should too.

[00:00:54] Go to mountwashington.org or text FORECAST to 603-356-2137.

[00:01:11] And here is your forecast through Saturday, June 1st.

[00:01:16] A windchill alert is in effect from 5pm Thursday through 10am Saturday.

[00:01:25] So Friday, in the clear under cloudy skies, trending in and out of the clouds with a high

[00:01:30] in the upper 30s.

[00:01:32] Winds will be northwest shifting north at 15-30 mph increasing to 25-40 mph.

[00:01:40] Windchill 20-30 above.

[00:01:43] Friday night, in and out of the clouds under mostly clear skies, trending out of the clouds

[00:01:49] with a slight chance of rain.

[00:01:51] Mid 30s with winds north at 25-40 decreasing to 15-30 mph.

[00:01:59] Windchill 15-25 above.

[00:02:03] And Saturday, in the clear with a high in the mid 40s.

[00:02:08] Windchill 15-25 above.

[00:02:29] Broadcasting from the Woodpecker Studio in the great state of New Hampshire, welcome to

[00:03:01] the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast where we discuss all things related to hiking

[00:03:07] and search and rescue in the White Mountains of New Hampshire.

[00:03:11] Here are your hosts, Mike and Stump.

[00:03:34] Alright Stump, episode 154, how you doing?

[00:03:38] Pretty good, how you doing?

[00:03:39] What's new?

[00:03:40] Same old same old, just working, getting ready to do a little traveling this week.

[00:03:45] Nice, nice.

[00:03:46] Where you headed?

[00:03:47] Getting on a plane tomorrow.

[00:03:48] I gotta go to North Carolina and retrieve my daughter's car from college so we're road

[00:03:53] tripping up from North Carolina after we move her into our apartment.

[00:03:58] So she's like an upperclassman now, so she's gotta get an apartment in June and then we

[00:04:02] gotta drive her car up.

[00:04:03] Gotcha, gotcha.

[00:04:04] Adult stuff.

[00:04:05] Oh that'd be fun.

[00:04:07] Sounds good, sounds good.

[00:04:11] So welcome to episode 154 of the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast.

[00:04:16] This week we are joined by Kimball Rexford of TrailsNH.com.

[00:04:20] TrailsNH has just about every hiking trip report, trail advisory and forest road closing

[00:04:26] in the Northeast.

[00:04:29] By following hiker blogs and hiker forums, Trails New Hampshire helps hikers access the

[00:04:34] most current trip planning information anywhere.

[00:04:37] It truly is a one-stop shop to aggregate information on hiking across New England.

[00:04:42] So looking forward to sitting down and talking with Kimball to learn about this.

[00:04:46] Plus we've got the story of a fatality and the ensuing rescue on Mount Washington from

[00:04:52] an event that happened in 1983 during an unusual weather period where the mountain became completely

[00:05:00] covered in ice.

[00:05:02] Plus we've got recent hikes on the Grand Traverse, Mount Washington and Pleasant Mountain.

[00:05:07] We've got a rabid fox story that I accidentally skipped over last week, sorry Stomp.

[00:05:14] More drama in Stomp's area.

[00:05:15] We've got claims of sabotage on Mount Everest.

[00:05:18] More details on the Massachusetts hiker that was attacked by a grizzly.

[00:05:23] There's a fatality that occurred in an indoor climbing gym.

[00:05:26] We've got shark news and then we've got rescues on Mount Cardigan, Edmonds Coal and the Rocky

[00:05:31] Branch Trail.

[00:05:32] So I'm Mike.

[00:05:33] And I'm Stomp.

[00:05:35] Let's get started.

[00:05:36] This is Ben Pease from Hiking Buddies.

[00:06:04] We are a 501c3 nonprofit committed to reducing avoidable tragedies through education, impactful

[00:06:10] projects and fostering a community of support.

[00:06:13] You can find out more at hikingbuddies.org.

[00:06:15] We wanted to say thank you to those who have supported our mission and most importantly

[00:06:19] say thanks to those who speak up, who ask questions and who are willing to provide guidance and

[00:06:24] assistance on the trails when needed.

[00:06:26] You embody what it means to be a Hiking Buddy.

[00:06:29] And now for all my newer hikers out there, here's this episode's Hiking Buddies Quick

[00:06:33] Tip.

[00:06:39] A $5 bug net that goes over your head might be the best $5 you ever spent.

[00:06:45] During black fly season, trails and even some summits can suddenly become unbearable.

[00:06:51] Protect yourself and hike with comfort.

[00:06:54] They weigh almost nothing, carry two and be someone's hero.

[00:06:58] Oh, and I'm dying here Stomp.

[00:07:07] Yeah man, you gotta kick this thing.

[00:07:10] You gotta get on the green tea or something.

[00:07:12] I don't know, I'm still under the weather listeners.

[00:07:15] I don't know what's going on.

[00:07:16] I think I got COVID and I was in denial the first week or two but now it's just like turned

[00:07:20] into this persistent cough that I've been powering through but it is what it is.

[00:07:25] Well I'll take care of the beer duty tonight, okay?

[00:07:28] All right, thank you.

[00:07:29] Did you just open that beer with your teeth by the way?

[00:07:31] Yes I did.

[00:07:32] That's like, yeah.

[00:07:33] As your dentist, don't ever do that.

[00:07:40] Your dentist said that?

[00:07:41] No, I'm your dentist and I'm telling you, you're gonna break your tooth.

[00:07:46] Okay.

[00:07:47] Stomp literally just put the whole can of beer in his mouth and just ripped it open

[00:07:52] with his tooth.

[00:07:53] That's the way I typically do it because I don't have any nails.

[00:07:59] I clip them really short.

[00:08:00] Can't you just push down on the end of it and it'll pop up enough and then you can...

[00:08:05] I'll see what I can do.

[00:08:07] I'm horrified.

[00:08:08] All right, so Stomp, you've got breaking news here with...

[00:08:12] Stomp like vague texted me.

[00:08:14] He's like, there's a Lupin slaughter going on and I was like, oh man, I don't know what

[00:08:18] he's talking about here but it's apparently a lupine or lupine is a flower and there's

[00:08:25] some kind of controversy going on up in New Hampshire where this is why we can't have

[00:08:30] good things.

[00:08:31] So why don't you explain what's going on with the Lupin slaughter of 2024?

[00:08:35] There are some social media posts out there about this but the Lupins pop up every spring

[00:08:41] and it's a huge tourist hotspot, particularly up in Sugar Hill in those areas.

[00:08:48] That's one of the biggest areas and some homeowners have just mowed their Lupin fields completely

[00:08:56] because of the tourists.

[00:08:59] The tourists just getting rowdy and coming into the property and making a mess and it's

[00:09:04] the same old story.

[00:09:05] So this is why we can't have good things.

[00:09:08] So yep, it's a shame.

[00:09:11] They're called Lupins?

[00:09:12] Correct.

[00:09:13] They're absolutely beautiful.

[00:09:15] If you haven't seen it, it's great.

[00:09:18] Not all the fields are mowed but several have been.

[00:09:22] So it's just your access to this springtime Lupin event is going to be a little bit more

[00:09:28] limited.

[00:09:29] The homeowners have had enough.

[00:09:32] Yeah, alright.

[00:09:34] I see these flowers.

[00:09:35] So they're like these purple and pink type flowers.

[00:09:39] We've had issues with the sunflowers in our area.

[00:09:43] I have a farm that does sunflowers and a bunch of people go there and get their pitches taken

[00:09:49] in the sunflower field but it's chaos and it's not fun.

[00:09:51] I went there one time with the kids and I'm never coming back here.

[00:09:54] Yeah, yeah.

[00:09:55] Same story.

[00:09:56] Alright, well.

[00:09:58] I'm assuming they're like turning around in people's driveways or parking on the side

[00:10:03] of the road when they're not supposed to and just causing chaos.

[00:10:06] Is that what's happening?

[00:10:07] Absolutely, yeah.

[00:10:08] In personal property damage.

[00:10:10] Yeah, okay.

[00:10:13] The locals are not having it anymore so we cannot have good things anymore.

[00:10:17] Yeah.

[00:10:18] Alright, Stomp.

[00:10:20] So breaking news out of Mount Everest.

[00:10:22] There are reports that some of the people on Mount Everest are cutting ropes on the

[00:10:30] summit and there's one particular guide company that's claiming that it was sabotaged, directed

[00:10:37] specifically at him and then there's a bunch of people that are like calm down.

[00:10:41] It's not really true.

[00:10:42] So I don't know what's going on but there seems to be a lot of drama on Mount Everest

[00:10:45] right now.

[00:10:46] So yeah, Nims died.

[00:10:48] The famed mountaineer of Sherpa that tackled all the highest peaks.

[00:10:52] Remember the, what was it, Netflix special?

[00:10:55] Yeah.

[00:10:56] Where he tackled all those.

[00:10:57] So he posted a video claiming that his ropes were cut and he went online to Instagram claiming

[00:11:06] that it was done purposely against him because he's the famous mountaineer guy that does

[00:11:13] whatever else.

[00:11:15] That pissed off a lot of people and at the moment, the Ministry of Culture, Tourism and

[00:11:20] Civil Aviation out of Nepal has posted a statement, a press statement dated the 27th stating that

[00:11:29] the ropes are fine.

[00:11:31] There was never an issue and they are actually seeking a legal investigation or starting

[00:11:37] an investigation into Nims' claims.

[00:11:41] So what a mess, huh?

[00:11:42] Strange.

[00:11:43] Yeah, yeah.

[00:11:45] For people that aren't familiar, essentially what happens is that there's a team of Sherpas

[00:11:48] that will go up early in the season to set ropes and once those ropes are set, so they

[00:11:55] all work together to get through the Khumbu Ice Field and set the ladders and all that

[00:11:59] stuff.

[00:12:00] And then there's a higher group of Sherpas that will go up to set the ropes by the Hillary

[00:12:05] Step and all those different areas there.

[00:12:07] And then everybody relies on those ropes to use, so all the different guide companies

[00:12:14] will rely on those.

[00:12:15] So the idea that somebody had cut those ropes, it's not just going after one guide company,

[00:12:22] it would be impacting basically everybody that's up there.

[00:12:26] So it sounds like the government is saying that the accusation is false, so I don't really

[00:12:32] know what's going on.

[00:12:33] Yeah, we'll find out.

[00:12:36] And I'll link a couple articles in the show notes, like Alan Arnett has an article on

[00:12:42] there.

[00:12:43] He doesn't really know what to think of it at this point, he's just reporting it at this

[00:12:50] point, but I'm sure that we'll get more details.

[00:12:52] Yeah, for sure.

[00:12:53] It's been a weird season up there.

[00:12:54] I'm sure you've seen the queues.

[00:12:56] The lines are just super phenomenal, they're so long.

[00:13:00] It's incredible.

[00:13:01] A lot of deaths.

[00:13:02] It's just a mess.

[00:13:04] Yeah, it is a mess.

[00:13:06] So moving on to a story that we covered last week about a Massachusetts resident that got

[00:13:13] attacked by a grizzly bear.

[00:13:17] So there's more information on this one.

[00:13:19] Matter of fact, we got some people reach out to us that know the victim.

[00:13:22] It sounds like he's a great guy, disabled vet.

[00:13:27] Definitely a strong outdoors person.

[00:13:30] He had actually posted a summary on his Instagram about the incident.

[00:13:36] So he took a picture, showed the attack.

[00:13:40] It's pretty scary.

[00:13:41] He's got a really significant injury in the back of his head behind his ear.

[00:13:47] And then I think he said he got bitten in the leg as well.

[00:13:50] Essentially what he was doing was, I think he was out looking to photograph a great gray

[00:13:59] owl.

[00:14:00] We walked out from the parking lot.

[00:14:02] He was supposed to be gone for about an hour on a Sunday afternoon.

[00:14:06] And unfortunately he got attacked by a mother grizzly protecting her cub.

[00:14:11] So as he was walking through the area to try to spot this owl for a photograph, he

[00:14:20] basically said to his wife, I'll be back in about an hour.

[00:14:22] He was a little bit over the timeline.

[00:14:24] So he figured she'd be getting worried.

[00:14:27] So he had to hustle it back to the car and he had bad phone service.

[00:14:32] So he was just trying to, I guess, navigate his way through and he just had a bad feeling.

[00:14:39] He was breaking some branches and making some noise in order to not have any surprise

[00:14:44] encounter.

[00:14:45] And sure enough, he walked right into a thick area where he saw a brown bear running up a

[00:14:50] hill probably about 50 yards away.

[00:14:53] And he did have beer spray and before he could even get it out, the mother had started charging.

[00:15:03] So he gave his back and laid down and basically got bit, slashed on his back, his right shoulder.

[00:15:13] And luckily he was able to use, I think the beer spray to finally get her or the grizzly

[00:15:21] off of him, but crazy story.

[00:15:23] Yeah.

[00:15:24] A little more detail on that.

[00:15:26] He had his hands around his neck to protect his jugular veins, the arteries and whatnot.

[00:15:34] And in one hand he had the beer spray and the bear bit the can inadvertently while trying

[00:15:41] to go for his neck.

[00:15:43] And that's when the bear actually got sprayed by the spray and ended up taking off.

[00:15:48] But that was a hell of a close call.

[00:15:52] Said it was the most violent thing he's ever experienced.

[00:15:57] He refers to IED explosions, mortars and being shot at during his time in the military.

[00:16:03] Unbelievable.

[00:16:04] Yeah.

[00:16:05] Yeah.

[00:16:06] I mean, so fortunate that the placement of the beer spray and the fact that he was able

[00:16:14] to sort of just be in a position where she was able to engage with it because otherwise

[00:16:18] who knows what would happen.

[00:16:21] But crazy story and scary.

[00:16:24] So thankful that he was able to survive and it just shows like it can happen at any time.

[00:16:32] And you got to be careful, but he had everything he needed.

[00:16:37] He had that beer spray and that ultimately whether he engaged it or not, that saved him.

[00:16:43] Absolutely.

[00:16:44] No doubt about it.

[00:16:45] Yep.

[00:16:46] So I'm not going to avoid grizzly territory stomp.

[00:16:50] I'll be honest with you.

[00:16:51] I know, right?

[00:16:53] Now we go on to a little smaller critter that's causing some trouble.

[00:16:58] So this is the story that we jumped over last week, but I wanted to talk about it because

[00:17:02] I find it interesting.

[00:17:04] A rabid fox has been euthanized in Hollis after biting a four-year-old.

[00:17:09] This is dated the 16th.

[00:17:13] Apparently the fox bit a four-year-old on a Sunday afternoon.

[00:17:16] It tested positive for rabies, which is a disease with nearly 100% fatality rate.

[00:17:24] I don't have the story here, but I believe there was another case 100 miles away of another

[00:17:30] rabid fox.

[00:17:33] So I don't know what's going on out there.

[00:17:35] It may be a common thing that happens occasionally, but the question I had was, is this something

[00:17:40] we need to be concerned about when we're on trail or bushwhacking?

[00:17:44] Who knows?

[00:17:45] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:17:47] I see fox more frequently down here when I'm running on trails.

[00:17:50] I had a fox run right in front of me, and then I've seen fox just walking around my

[00:17:55] neighborhood in the afternoon.

[00:17:56] Yeah, same here.

[00:17:58] I feel like it's more likely you're going to see them in a suburban environment than

[00:18:02] you are probably in the whites.

[00:18:04] I hope.

[00:18:06] But that's scary.

[00:18:07] And I love that the mother basically just held the fox down and protected the kid eventually.

[00:18:16] Something to be aware of.

[00:18:18] Yeah, those little critters.

[00:18:20] Did you ever remember any...

[00:18:21] I remember there was a whole big event when I was a kid that was like a rabid raccoon that

[00:18:26] was crawling around the O'Leary's yard, which is right across the street from me.

[00:18:30] A police officer had to come and shoot it, and we were all hanging out watching the

[00:18:35] police officer take his gun out and shoot the raccoon.

[00:18:38] We were like, whoa, that's so cool he shot the raccoon.

[00:18:42] You actually saw that, huh?

[00:18:43] Yeah, we were like 10 years old.

[00:18:45] Wow, see up here it's conservation officers.

[00:18:48] The COs will come out and do that up here, but I've never experienced that.

[00:18:51] Yeah, this was like early 80s, so I don't think they were just like, yeah, we're just

[00:18:55] going to shoot this raccoon.

[00:18:57] It was like the big talk of the neighborhood for a week.

[00:19:03] Oh, I bet.

[00:19:04] Officer so-and-so came and shot the raccoon in your front yard.

[00:19:10] Wow, what a riot.

[00:19:12] Anyway, well, growing up in the 80s it was fun.

[00:19:15] Yeah, right.

[00:19:17] All right, so Eric Hansen, our friend Eric who was on the show a couple of weeks ago,

[00:19:21] sent us an article about how dangerous is Mount Washington compared to the other peaks

[00:19:26] in the US.

[00:19:27] Interesting.

[00:19:28] And this is like a data-driven summary of accidents and fatalities.

[00:19:34] So they've got Denali, Mount Rainier, Mount Hood, and then Mount Washington is in the

[00:19:40] top four.

[00:19:41] Yeah, top four.

[00:19:42] Fourth deadliest and eighth for accidents causing injuries.

[00:19:47] Yeah.

[00:19:48] So let me toggle that over to accidents.

[00:19:51] Is that toggle?

[00:19:52] No, I guess you can't do that.

[00:19:53] Yeah, he sent an archived article so it doesn't have that.

[00:19:56] Oh, yeah, yeah, got it.

[00:19:58] Okay, yeah, but thanks Eric.

[00:19:59] That's very interesting.

[00:20:00] It's a good article.

[00:20:01] So yeah, we're ranking.

[00:20:04] So by far the most dangerous summit in this region.

[00:20:07] Yeah, oh no doubt about it.

[00:20:09] Yeah, because if I look at this like almost every single other summit is in the West Coast

[00:20:15] or in Canada.

[00:20:16] Oh no, no, no, not Canada but like Alaska.

[00:20:23] So Mount Shasta, Longs Peak, Mount Baker, St. Helens.

[00:20:28] So yeah, basically Mount Washington is the only East Coast summit on this list.

[00:20:32] So we'll share this in the show notes.

[00:20:35] Excellent.

[00:20:36] Very good.

[00:20:37] All right, so just next article here is there has been a fatality stomp.

[00:20:42] So 46-year-old man has died following a deadly climbing accident that happened on Tuesday,

[00:20:48] May 21st.

[00:20:51] According to reports, Lee Hanch, a resident of Pembroke, New Hampshire, passed away from

[00:20:56] injuries sustained in the accident.

[00:20:58] So apparently he was setting roots at a climbing gym and had a slip and unfortunately was pronounced

[00:21:06] dead from his injuries.

[00:21:08] Not a lot of details at this point but he was a pretty accomplished climber and worked there.

[00:21:20] So he was setting the roots.

[00:21:21] So we talked about this I think with Rusty before around, you know, every once in a while

[00:21:25] you got to reconfigure the roots and you know, it's pretty standard for indoor climbing gyms.

[00:21:30] So unfortunately, with this accident, he passed away.

[00:21:34] Yeah, it's a shock.

[00:21:36] A lot of people reached out to me and they were just, you know, saying how well-known

[00:21:42] he was and just a great climber, a guy that apparently and another great loss for the

[00:21:50] community here.

[00:21:51] So yeah, rest in peace.

[00:21:53] That's a shocker.

[00:21:54] So strange.

[00:21:55] No details.

[00:21:56] Yeah, we'll keep an eye on it and if there's any additional details, we'll share it.

[00:22:00] But yeah, definitely thoughts going out to his friends and family.

[00:22:03] All right, Stomp.

[00:22:06] Next up, we've got a, it looks like a young man here is going to be running.

[00:22:11] I don't know if he's young.

[00:22:13] Yeah, young, 29.

[00:22:14] He's going to be running, circumnavigating the Lake Winnipesaukee.

[00:22:18] Yeah, that's cool.

[00:22:20] So yeah, which is, that's a pretty good idea.

[00:22:25] Nathan Lamar is taking on this challenge to run 62 miles.

[00:22:32] And they're indicating there's more than 4,000 feet of vertical gain.

[00:22:37] I got to, guess what, Nathan?

[00:22:39] It's going to be a lot more than 4,000 feet of vertical gain, I think.

[00:22:43] Do you think?

[00:22:44] I think so.

[00:22:45] The perimeter, the tightest perimeter around the lake.

[00:22:48] Yeah, well, maybe.

[00:22:49] Yeah, I guess.

[00:22:50] I don't know.

[00:22:51] I feel like there's a lot of up and down in that area.

[00:22:54] So maybe if he sticks to the perimeter, but.

[00:22:57] Interesting.

[00:22:59] Yeah, we'll have to see what the data is.

[00:23:01] But I guess the most recent person to do it was in 2010.

[00:23:05] And then there was another person, Bruce Kunar, who is Nathan Lamar's father-in-law,

[00:23:13] did it in 1989.

[00:23:14] So he's basically carrying on the family tradition.

[00:23:18] He is a, so Nathan's a 29-year-old licensed nursing assistant

[00:23:24] and a graduate of Moultonboro Academy.

[00:23:28] And hated running when he was a teenager, but he found the love of running while in

[00:23:35] college and has been into it ever since, I guess.

[00:23:40] So we'll see how he does.

[00:23:43] Well, he's apparently he's an alumnus of the White Lake Ultra.

[00:23:47] Okay, so he's well-prepared.

[00:23:48] By White Mountain Endurance.

[00:23:49] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, apparently.

[00:23:52] Yeah, so we'll see.

[00:23:53] But I will say like the reach the beach running that I've done around Winnipesaukee in that area.

[00:23:58] And I've done a couple of triathlons too in the area.

[00:24:01] A lot of ups and downs are in the lakes region.

[00:24:05] Yeah, I'm sure it'd be a piece of cake for this kid.

[00:24:08] It is the PUD capital of New Hampshire.

[00:24:12] Purposeless ups and downs for those that don't know.

[00:24:16] Yeah, good luck.

[00:24:18] And then next up, just not hiking related, but we wanted to warn everybody that the sharks are back on Cape Cod.

[00:24:25] So there's seal sightings and there's been like a sighting of a minky wheel, I think that had like shark bites taken out of it.

[00:24:33] So there's a lot going on right now in the ocean.

[00:24:37] And if I were you, I wouldn't go up past your knees, especially if you're down the Cape.

[00:24:42] It seems like it's going to be a crazy great white shark type of year.

[00:24:46] Mm hmm.

[00:24:48] Really early.

[00:24:50] It's hot.

[00:24:51] Yeah, the water's getting warmer and the thing I'm worried about is I think that like the seals are going to start moving a little bit farther north

[00:24:57] and we're going to see more activity of great white sharks like up in my area by the New Hampshire seacoast.

[00:25:03] Mm hmm.

[00:25:04] Well, that's usually the pattern.

[00:25:07] I think they make it somewhat north and then they start heading back.

[00:25:10] Yeah, we don't often see any sharks.

[00:25:12] It's usually like they're down south of the Cape.

[00:25:15] So I'll just be curious to see if they show up in our area.

[00:25:19] Yeah.

[00:25:20] But I'm not an ocean guy.

[00:25:22] Like I know you used to surf and everything.

[00:25:23] Like I don't really go in the ocean unless I'm in like the Caribbean or something.

[00:25:27] Oh yeah?

[00:25:28] Where I can see the water.

[00:25:29] Yeah, a little paranoid.

[00:25:30] Yeah, I don't like it.

[00:25:32] It gives me the creeps.

[00:25:33] I do miss the ocean.

[00:25:35] Yeah, yeah.

[00:25:36] I like going to the beach.

[00:25:37] I'm not going in the water.

[00:25:38] I'm a little scared.

[00:25:40] Some.

[00:25:42] We all know that hiking a mountain can be hard at times.

[00:25:45] So here's a corny dad joke to help you get over it.

[00:25:50] Ba-dum-bum.

[00:25:52] This is the part of the show, Stomp, where I do a dad joke and I did not prepare.

[00:25:58] So I'm just going to randomly pick one.

[00:26:02] Thanks to my friends Camilla and Lance for getting me my book.

[00:26:05] Oh, here's one.

[00:26:09] Dogs can't operate MRI scans, but cats can.

[00:26:19] That's awesome.

[00:26:21] I love it.

[00:26:23] That's horrendous.

[00:26:24] All right.

[00:26:25] How did the basketball get wet?

[00:26:27] How did the basketball get wet?

[00:26:30] I'm not sure.

[00:26:32] The players were dribbling with it.

[00:26:34] God.

[00:26:36] Horrendous.

[00:26:38] Horrendous dad jokes.

[00:26:40] That's great.

[00:26:42] Oh, boy.

[00:26:48] Are you ready for Slashers Ear Review?

[00:26:59] Gear Talk Stomp.

[00:27:01] Yeah, this is a neat one.

[00:27:03] So what do you have?

[00:27:05] All right.

[00:27:06] Well, there's a company out there called Stoko.

[00:27:07] I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that correctly, but it's supportive apparel that's lined with

[00:27:14] basically high tension metal cables that reinforce your body's muscles and ligaments.

[00:27:20] So it's sort of like a robotic enhancement.

[00:27:24] There's adjustable dials so you can dial in the tension and it just helps.

[00:27:29] Kinesthetically, it helps your movement.

[00:27:32] So it's interesting.

[00:27:34] I don't know if it would serve a purpose for healthy populations, but for somebody maybe

[00:27:39] hiking with an injury that's trying to get back on trail, this may be a really good solution.

[00:27:45] There's some compression as well.

[00:27:47] All right, Stomp.

[00:27:49] You gonna try it?

[00:27:51] Oh, yeah.

[00:27:52] See if we can get them on.

[00:27:54] We'll get a couple freebies.

[00:27:56] Yeah, you get your tights.

[00:27:58] Yeah, I am curious about it though.

[00:28:00] Who knows?

[00:28:01] 90 feet of high strength cables hidden inside the fabric.

[00:28:04] What?

[00:28:06] Yeah, that's amazing.

[00:28:08] You can tighten that stuff down.

[00:28:10] Yeah, good stuff.

[00:28:12] All right, Stomp.

[00:28:14] So this is the part of the show where we are going to do a couple of sponsors.

[00:28:16] So we got CS Coffee and then we got 48 Peaks.

[00:28:18] Yeah, let's talk about CS Coffee.

[00:28:20] So the podcast is supported by CS Instant Coffee, makers of eco-friendly instant coffee.

[00:28:26] It's perfect for anyone who loves the outdoors as much as we do.

[00:28:29] Great for backpacking, day hiking, camping and even at home.

[00:28:32] Learn more and get in touch at CSInstant.Coffee or email us at info at CSInstant.Coffee.

[00:28:42] And time is ticking.

[00:28:44] We are moving on to the 48 Peaks Alzheimer's event very soon.

[00:28:48] It's coming up.

[00:28:50] Yeah, very soon.

[00:28:52] I've been working on my music, getting my sets ready.

[00:28:54] Very excited about that.

[00:28:56] Yeah, so use your passion for hiking to help end Alzheimer's.

[00:28:59] In one collective effort, 400 plus hikers will climb New Hampshire's 4,000 footers

[00:29:04] or create their own challenge to support the mission of the Alzheimer's Association.

[00:29:08] The annual hiker celebration will take place Saturday, June 8th at Reckless Brewing Company

[00:29:13] with raffles, food and an amazing community.

[00:29:16] Hike that weekend or any day you want.

[00:29:19] No fundraising minimums required, but those who raise $100 will receive this year's performance grade purple t-shirt.

[00:29:26] Let's turn the White Mountains purple to end Alzheimer's.

[00:29:30] Visit alz.org.

[00:29:33] Right slash 48 Peaks.

[00:29:35] That's alz.org.

[00:29:37] Right slash the number 48 Peaks.

[00:29:39] Very cool.

[00:29:41] Very cool, Stomp.

[00:29:43] So this is the part of the show where we talk about what beer we're drinking

[00:29:45] and I'm just doing sticking with water because I'm still feeling a little under the weather.

[00:29:48] Yeah, I'm having a blue comment.

[00:29:51] I just grabbed this a little while ago.

[00:29:53] So it's a brewery out of Massachusetts.

[00:29:54] Let me see if I can get some light on this.

[00:29:56] I can't see.

[00:29:58] So it's made by the Widowmaker Brewing Company.

[00:30:01] That's a good name for a hiking podcast.

[00:30:04] Yes.

[00:30:06] Right?

[00:30:08] And this is, let's see, Blue Comet.

[00:30:10] It's a hazy India pale ale.

[00:30:12] 7.1% alcohol by volume and it's a pint of course.

[00:30:15] And it's actually pretty tasty.

[00:30:17] I like it.

[00:30:19] Nice graphics too.

[00:30:21] Another fine Massachusetts brewery.

[00:30:23] Yeah, that's cool.

[00:30:25] So speaking of Blue Comet, Stomp, did you see the videos that were going around out of Portugal

[00:30:28] about the kids that were like videotaping comets?

[00:30:32] Oh, not comets, meteors that were coming through?

[00:30:34] No.

[00:30:36] Did you see any of those?

[00:30:38] Yeah, I'll send you a video.

[00:30:40] Okay, sure.

[00:30:42] This one girl, she was just basically like taping herself and a meteor just came flying right over

[00:30:44] and just lit the whole sky up.

[00:30:46] And it was, it's amazing video.

[00:30:48] Dramatic.

[00:30:50] Wow.

[00:30:51] Was that like just an annual meteor shower or?

[00:30:53] No, it was just randomly.

[00:30:55] She just happened to be like taking a selfie of herself like kids do nowadays.

[00:30:59] And all of a sudden like a meteor just flew right over.

[00:31:02] She was like, did that just happen?

[00:31:04] Wow, interesting.

[00:31:06] Yeah, I had not seen those.

[00:31:08] I knew we should have gone left back there.

[00:31:10] Stomp, don't worry.

[00:31:12] I know it's this way.

[00:31:14] I've got a feeling in my gut.

[00:31:16] Are you sure you're not about to have a bowel emergency?

[00:31:18] Totally.

[00:31:19] We got this.

[00:31:21] But I just blew out my hip, fell down that gully with my 40 year old micro spikes.

[00:31:25] Suck it up, Stomp.

[00:31:27] It's 4 p.m., we're at 3,500 feet.

[00:31:29] We got nine miles back to the parking lot.

[00:31:31] Your leg may be broken.

[00:31:33] We got no cell connection and we can't feel our fingers.

[00:31:35] But we're finishing all of my list tonight.

[00:31:37] By the way, I need some water.

[00:31:39] I'm empty.

[00:31:41] I would if I could see what I'm doing, but my headlamp batteries are dead.

[00:31:44] You gotta be kidding me.

[00:31:46] What a chump.

[00:31:48] This is the last time I hike with you.

[00:31:50] Whatever, mister.

[00:31:52] Do you know me?

[00:31:54] I have a podcast.

[00:31:56] Whatever.

[00:32:00] Let's find out what Mike and Stomp have been hiking.

[00:32:03] All right, Stomp, this is the part of the show where we do recent hikes.

[00:32:06] So we both get out this weekend and you and Mr. Stomp got out and did a pretty cool hike

[00:32:12] that you would promise you're going to share all the details with the listeners last week.

[00:32:16] So spill the beans.

[00:32:18] Yeah, top secret.

[00:32:20] The secret is revealed.

[00:32:22] We did the Grand Traverse.

[00:32:24] Mrs. Stomp had been chomping at the bit to do this one.

[00:32:28] And, you know, I've done it several times.

[00:32:30] But she was super, super anxious about it.

[00:32:33] And the night before she actually was joking like, I'm already sore from tomorrow.

[00:32:39] So she got amped up and she was just, you know, it's like that fear of the unknown

[00:32:44] when you're doing something big.

[00:32:46] And I can, I tried to calm her down about it because it is actually a really gentle thing.

[00:32:50] It's a gentle traverse.

[00:32:52] So we started nice and early after some coffee and ascended Tecumseh,

[00:32:57] you know, the brutal two miles up to the Sauceman Trail

[00:33:01] and then made our way gradually over to Mount Green and then Foss Peak.

[00:33:07] And man, we just had a great day of it.

[00:33:10] We took our time.

[00:33:12] We spent at least an hour up on top of Foss, which is the peak that's just north of Welch Dickey

[00:33:17] by about a mile and a half as you're traversing over.

[00:33:20] And she did great.

[00:33:23] You know, it's like that last two miles down Dickey were sort of fatiguing, but not bad.

[00:33:28] So props to Mrs. Stomp for a really, really great day.

[00:33:31] And she crushed it for sure.

[00:33:33] And then on Sunday we did Scour.

[00:33:36] She was sore, a little bit sore from the hike and she just sucked it up and said, yeah, let's do it.

[00:33:41] So we went out and hit Scour, which is, you know, it's like a two mile hike

[00:33:45] into a nice view in Waterville Valley.

[00:33:46] But it was nice just to get that lactic acid out of the blood from the hike before.

[00:33:51] Yeah, she posted some nice pictures of Scour.

[00:33:54] It looks like a beautiful area there.

[00:33:56] And then with the Grand Traverse, no problem staying on track and all that?

[00:34:00] There's two or three places that were a little weird.

[00:34:05] But for the most part, there was no snow, no need for spikes or anything like that.

[00:34:10] I spent a lot of time rebuilding cairns that for whatever reason people are knocking over.

[00:34:16] Come on, give me a break.

[00:34:18] It's like these are the authentic 1800s cairns.

[00:34:21] Yeah.

[00:34:23] So people are weird, whatever.

[00:34:25] But yeah, it's a solid herd path after Foss headed to Dickey.

[00:34:29] And like I'd mentioned before in previous episodes from Saucerman Trail down to Green,

[00:34:35] somebody went in there with a chainsaw and really laid out the trail.

[00:34:41] So you can't go wrong for the first two miles or so.

[00:34:43] It gets a little weird coming down Foss because it's ledgy

[00:34:47] and there's multiple routes down Foss.

[00:34:50] So you have to really pay attention to where you're going.

[00:34:53] But it's a beauty.

[00:34:55] I gotta get you out there, Mike.

[00:34:57] Yeah, we gotta do that at some point.

[00:34:59] She was floored.

[00:35:01] Yeah, we'll get there.

[00:35:03] I got out.

[00:35:05] I went on Saturday.

[00:35:07] Traditionally, Memorial Day, I typically will run the auto road.

[00:35:11] So I check with my regular crew of people

[00:35:15] and everybody was going off and doing their own thing.

[00:35:17] But Jakester had reached out to me as I was driving up

[00:35:22] and was like, hey, what do you got going on?

[00:35:24] And he was like, well, I'm right on the way if you want to pick me up.

[00:35:29] He had a car issue.

[00:35:31] So I was like, yeah, that's perfect.

[00:35:33] So we ended up doing, I like to go up on Alton Weagle Day

[00:35:37] so you can kind of see what's going on.

[00:35:39] I forgot that was this weekend.

[00:35:41] We did Pinkham Notch and then we hiked up Old Jackson

[00:35:44] and then picked up the auto road for mile two.

[00:35:48] And we were a little bit behind on time.

[00:35:53] So we did pass a couple of people that were doing Alton Weagle,

[00:35:56] two ladies that were dressed in more traditional dresses.

[00:35:59] And then there was a bunch of single wheel people

[00:36:04] and then some other people that were on those electric one wheels

[00:36:07] that were coming up and coming down.

[00:36:08] But yeah, we made it up onto the summit by like, I don't know.

[00:36:13] It was right around the time that the cars opened up.

[00:36:16] So we got right to the flat section when the car started coming up

[00:36:19] at like mile seven and then.

[00:36:21] And you were just hiking?

[00:36:23] We just, yeah, we just walked it.

[00:36:25] Yeah, yeah.

[00:36:27] And it was cool to see it through Jake's eyes because he was like,

[00:36:30] yeah, the angles of these views,

[00:36:32] like the way that you approach the Great Gulf,

[00:36:33] the angle that you see Wildcat from the road

[00:36:36] and then coming up on the side of the Great Gulf as you come through.

[00:36:40] He's like, this is very unique and I haven't seen these views.

[00:36:43] So I was kind of enjoying seeing it through his eyes.

[00:36:46] Did you guys talk about how brutal it is for the Mount Washington Road Race?

[00:36:51] I did. Yeah, I picked out like some of the spots

[00:36:54] and I was like, you know, because there's that spot

[00:36:56] like two and a half, three miles.

[00:36:58] That's like a grind before you get to the water stop.

[00:37:00] And then there's that section where you're like,

[00:37:03] you know, that section right when you break above tree line

[00:37:05] and then there's the section at like mile six and a half

[00:37:07] or whatever right before you get to that flat section.

[00:37:09] So I was giving up like every little section of the road,

[00:37:14] but it was good.

[00:37:16] And then we went up, we spent like maybe a half hour

[00:37:18] in the observatory.

[00:37:20] We had food, we were talking, ran into Megan up there

[00:37:22] who had been on the show before, I think.

[00:37:24] Oh yeah, of course.

[00:37:26] She said hi and then, yeah.

[00:37:28] And then we went and got our summit photo.

[00:37:32] The staff was up there getting the tip top house sign

[00:37:36] put together.

[00:37:38] Cog railroad was showing up.

[00:37:40] So yeah, it was a lot of activity.

[00:37:42] And then we headed down to Lakes of the Clouds hut

[00:37:46] and hung out down there for a little while.

[00:37:48] They were still getting ready.

[00:37:50] Everything was unpacked and all the supplies

[00:37:52] were sitting on the table.

[00:37:54] So it wasn't open for business, but there was a lot

[00:37:56] of people outside just hanging out.

[00:37:59] And then, you know, neither one of us had any interest

[00:38:00] in going up to Monroe.

[00:38:02] So we went over to Bootspur via the Camel Trail.

[00:38:04] Yeah, we were like, we could have gone up, I guess.

[00:38:06] But we were like, eh, we're just,

[00:38:08] we're gonna head over to Bootspur.

[00:38:10] Monroe's awesome.

[00:38:12] I love Monroe.

[00:38:14] It is great, but we were just like,

[00:38:16] you know, we had a lot of miles on us.

[00:38:18] But yeah, the trip over to Camel,

[00:38:20] the Camel Trail to Bootspur was easy.

[00:38:22] And, you know, there's still some patches of snow,

[00:38:24] but nothing that we had to hike into.

[00:38:26] It's just like, you know, left and right

[00:38:27] there was a little bit of snow.

[00:38:29] But we got up to Bootspur

[00:38:31] and then headed down

[00:38:33] to a couple of different viewpoints.

[00:38:35] So off of the Bootspur,

[00:38:37] when you come down,

[00:38:39] there's a couple of different outlooks

[00:38:41] that you can rock hop.

[00:38:43] You have to be careful because there's a lot of vegetation,

[00:38:45] but you can rock hop to the ledges

[00:38:47] to look into Tuckerman.

[00:38:49] So we were watching the people ski

[00:38:51] in the left gully.

[00:38:53] There was a whole group of people skiing

[00:38:55] left gully still.

[00:38:57] And it's fully snowed in.

[00:38:59] So you could do it.

[00:39:01] Wow, that's cool.

[00:39:03] Yeah.

[00:39:05] And then we decided to just switch it up

[00:39:07] at the last minute on a whim.

[00:39:09] We were like, let's take Bootspur link

[00:39:11] to Hermit Lake

[00:39:13] and then we'll go down Tuckerman.

[00:39:15] So we did that.

[00:39:17] I don't know why that's not an elective

[00:39:19] on the Terrifying 25.

[00:39:21] That's a crazy steep trail.

[00:39:23] I can't recall if I've done that or not.

[00:39:25] Yeah, it's basically so you come down

[00:39:27] Bootspur summit, maybe

[00:39:29] I don't know, three quarters of a mile or so.

[00:39:31] And then it connects directly to Hermit Lake.

[00:39:33] It's very much like Chemin des Dames.

[00:39:35] It's the same vibe of a trail.

[00:39:37] Yeah.

[00:39:39] I have to correct you before

[00:39:41] listeners murder you.

[00:39:43] Chemin des Dames.

[00:39:45] Yeah, Chemin des Dames.

[00:39:47] But it was and it was cool.

[00:39:49] Then we went to Hermit Lake.

[00:39:51] We hung out there.

[00:39:53] It was a lot of sitting around,

[00:39:55] which was it was a long hike.

[00:39:56] It was a lot of elevation,

[00:39:58] but we spent a lot of breaks.

[00:40:00] So it was good.

[00:40:02] Yeah, it's nice, though.

[00:40:04] I'm sort of tapping into that

[00:40:06] instead of hustling through it,

[00:40:08] just sitting down and chilling.

[00:40:10] And I think that gives you longevity

[00:40:12] for your legs if you just do that

[00:40:14] and you chill, replenish, eat.

[00:40:16] Yeah, it's great.

[00:40:18] Yeah.

[00:40:19] Yeah.

[00:40:21] And Jake, he's a great guy, easy to talk to.

[00:40:23] So we had a good time.

[00:40:24] His girlfriend's son came up.

[00:40:26] So he wanted to go hiking.

[00:40:28] So I took him off the Pleasant Mountain on Monday.

[00:40:30] But it was like kind of a bust.

[00:40:32] It was like kind of rainy and dreary.

[00:40:34] So we just we just ran up there

[00:40:36] and then ran back down pretty quick.

[00:40:38] OK.

[00:40:40] All right.

[00:40:42] Getting out there, though.

[00:40:44] Yeah.

[00:40:46] No doubt.

[00:40:48] Feeling stronger.

[00:40:50] Getting the cardio up.

[00:40:52] Feeling stronger for sure.

[00:40:54] So I'm going to go into

[00:40:56] Vaucluse and then

[00:40:58] we'll talk with Kimball.

[00:41:00] All right.

[00:41:02] So does your backpack not provide

[00:41:04] enough ventilation?

[00:41:06] Does your back sweat too much when backpacking?

[00:41:08] As you know, sweat can be extremely

[00:41:10] uncomfortable on the trails.

[00:41:12] Plus, sweat is a serious risk factor

[00:41:14] in both hot and cold climates.

[00:41:16] As your clothes get wet,

[00:41:18] your core temperature can dramatically

[00:41:20] fluctuate, and this can result in

[00:41:22] hypothermia, heat exhaustion and dehydration.

[00:41:24] So you want to make sure that your

[00:41:26] backpack is comfortable.

[00:41:28] Today's your lucky day because

[00:41:30] we have good news for you.

[00:41:32] There's a piece of gear that solves

[00:41:34] the sweat and ventilation problem

[00:41:36] making your backpack more comfortable.

[00:41:38] It's Vaucluse Gear's Ultralight

[00:41:40] Backpack Ventilation Frame.

[00:41:42] It's a frame that is an accessory

[00:41:44] that easily installs in your favorite

[00:41:46] pack for sizes 15 liters up to 45

[00:41:48] liters and creates a ventilating

[00:41:50] airflow gap between you and your

[00:41:52] pack.

[00:41:53] It's a lightweight frame around

[00:41:55] 3 ounces, basically equivalent

[00:41:57] to a pair of wool socks.

[00:41:59] So whether hiking in hot or cold

[00:42:01] temps, the Ultralight Backpack

[00:42:03] Ventilation Frame from Vaucluse Gear

[00:42:05] is a real game changer regarding

[00:42:07] airflow and ventilation.

[00:42:09] So visit VaucluseGear.com to order

[00:42:11] an Ultralight Ventilation Frame today.

[00:42:13] Use promo code SLASHER to enjoy

[00:42:15] a $5 discount and let them know

[00:42:17] that Mike and Stomp sent you.

[00:42:21] Very good.

[00:42:23] All right, Stomp, so we are going

[00:42:25] to go ahead and wrap up this

[00:42:27] segment.

[00:42:29] So Kimball Rexford from TrailsNH

[00:42:31] was nice enough to join us to talk

[00:42:33] about his website.

[00:42:35] We geeked out a little bit about

[00:42:37] hiking.

[00:42:38] We talked a little bit about

[00:42:40] technology, and we just think that

[00:42:42] this is a cool website to utilize

[00:42:44] for information.

[00:42:46] So let's move into that and then

[00:42:48] we'll catch on the other side and

[00:42:50] we've got another segment and then

[00:42:52] recent search and rescue news to do.

[00:42:54] It's time for Slashers guest of

[00:42:56] the week.

[00:43:13] Very cool.

[00:43:15] Very cool.

[00:43:17] All right.

[00:43:29] So we are live here with Kimball

[00:43:31] Rexford.

[00:43:33] TrailsNH.com.

[00:43:34] Welcome, Kimball.

[00:43:36] Thanks.

[00:43:38] Glad to be here.

[00:43:40] First time in a podcast and you

[00:43:42] get to deal with us two scary guys,

[00:43:44] right?

[00:43:46] We're in the same age group, maybe.

[00:43:47] Yeah, that's true.

[00:43:49] Which is good.

[00:43:51] So Kimball, we wanted to have you

[00:43:53] join.

[00:43:54] I guess, maybe you could start off.

[00:43:56] Could you just refresh the listeners?

[00:43:58] How did we get connected with Kimball?

[00:44:00] I believe I just reached out to you

[00:44:02] randomly, Kimball.

[00:44:04] I saw your website and we've been

[00:44:06] using your site for some time now

[00:44:08] for just basic data, some

[00:44:10] information, and then I discovered

[00:44:12] some of your tools on your site and

[00:44:14] I thought, oh, this would be really

[00:44:16] useful for a chat.

[00:44:18] So it's very straightforward.

[00:44:20] Yeah, I thought it was used.

[00:44:22] I popped in on a podcast a little

[00:44:24] while ago and I thought somehow I

[00:44:27] stumbled onto you on Instagram

[00:44:29] after that.

[00:44:31] So I started following you on

[00:44:33] Instagram and then long after that.

[00:44:35] Oh, that's great.

[00:44:37] Wow.

[00:44:39] So yeah.

[00:44:41] And so Kimball, again, he's the

[00:44:43] creator of TrailsNH.com, which is

[00:44:44] a website for all kinds of

[00:44:46] information around hiking in the

[00:44:48] Northeast.

[00:44:49] So, Kimball, why don't you start

[00:44:51] off and introduce yourself and then

[00:44:53] talk a little bit about TrailsNH

[00:44:55] and then we'll dive into sort of

[00:44:57] your earlier life in a few minutes.

[00:44:59] But just give us a quick intro.

[00:45:01] Yeah.

[00:45:02] So I'm Kimball Rexford.

[00:45:04] I built TrailsNH from scratch.

[00:45:06] It's been running around.

[00:45:08] It's been on the Internet for, I

[00:45:10] don't know, 10 plus years now.

[00:45:12] My background or my employment

[00:45:14] is I'm a freelance website

[00:45:16] developer.

[00:45:18] I build websites for work.

[00:45:20] I work for myself and then in my

[00:45:22] free time, I steal time and I work

[00:45:24] on TrailsNH instead of working for

[00:45:26] a client.

[00:45:28] Awesome.

[00:45:30] And then what's the interest in

[00:45:32] hiking? Have you always been like

[00:45:34] interested in outdoor activities and

[00:45:36] hiking or is it something you picked

[00:45:38] up later in life?

[00:45:39] Yeah, that's it.

[00:45:41] No, as a kid, I spent every summer

[00:45:42] hiking and then, you know, when my

[00:45:44] aunts brought me up Mount

[00:45:46] Manadnock and I was like, wow, this

[00:45:48] is great.

[00:45:50] And, you know, young little kid,

[00:45:52] tons of energy.

[00:45:54] It's like the mountain was nothing.

[00:45:56] And then just finding friends that

[00:45:58] love to hike, you know, so that was

[00:46:00] it.

[00:46:02] As a kid, I spent a lot of time in

[00:46:04] the woods and as an adult, I get to

[00:46:08] still do it.

[00:46:10] When you started building the

[00:46:12] websites or getting information, so

[00:46:13] you were a hiker that was doing it

[00:46:15] when it was guidebooks and, you

[00:46:17] know, no Internet.

[00:46:19] And now it's, you know, you basically

[00:46:21] enabled like a lot of information on

[00:46:23] the Internet.

[00:46:25] Could you talk a little bit about

[00:46:27] from your perspective, like how that

[00:46:29] transition has played out and some

[00:46:31] of the good things, some of the bad

[00:46:33] things that you've seen through, you

[00:46:35] know, shuffling into the information

[00:46:37] age?

[00:46:38] So it's kind of a mixed bag.

[00:46:40] So there's it's great that you can

[00:46:42] just on a keyboard type in anything

[00:46:44] you need to know and it's there.

[00:46:46] But not 100 percent of the people

[00:46:48] who are writing it are accurate or

[00:46:50] even have done it.

[00:46:52] There's, you know, blog posts that

[00:46:54] are fake.

[00:46:56] So you just kind of have to be

[00:46:58] careful with information today.

[00:47:00] Is it is it really accurate?

[00:47:02] When I started doing the 4000

[00:47:04] footers or shortly after, the

[00:47:06] original views from the top came

[00:47:08] out, which was a lot of people

[00:47:09] were saying, well, you know, you

[00:47:11] know, you can't just go through

[00:47:13] this list and find what you need.

[00:47:15] I need a map.

[00:47:17] So that's kind of where it came

[00:47:19] from.

[00:47:21] Yeah.

[00:47:23] And as far as hiking goes, did you

[00:47:25] do any hiking?

[00:47:27] I mean, I think you mentioned

[00:47:29] hiking.

[00:47:31] I mean, I think you mentioned

[00:47:33] hiking.

[00:47:35] I mean, I think you mentioned

[00:47:37] hiking.

[00:47:38] Did you keep up with hiking

[00:47:40] all throughout your career or was

[00:47:42] it something that you sort of

[00:47:44] walked away from for a while and

[00:47:46] then pick back up and then, you

[00:47:48] know, it coincided with your

[00:47:50] interest in the technology?

[00:47:52] No, I've always been hiking.

[00:47:54] I love hiking and I love the

[00:47:56] phase when it was just guidebooks

[00:47:58] and maps and I'd still plow over

[00:48:00] a map, a map laying there, you

[00:48:02] know, on the bed.

[00:48:04] It's like there's nothing better

[00:48:06] than like sitting there with your

[00:48:08] head down, studying the map and

[00:48:10] where do I want to go next?

[00:48:12] Yeah, that's cool.

[00:48:14] And, you know, kind of reading

[00:48:16] the topo lines is like which

[00:48:18] route is going to be the one I

[00:48:20] want to do and figure it out for

[00:48:22] yourself, you know, just

[00:48:24] learning how to read that stuff.

[00:48:26] Do you have certain areas like

[00:48:28] I always ask people this, like,

[00:48:30] you know, what are your hidden

[00:48:32] gems as far as hiking goes or

[00:48:34] different areas of the whites

[00:48:36] that you like to go to avoid the

[00:48:38] sort of, you know, that are not

[00:48:40] as, you know, sort of typical

[00:48:42] that a lot of hikers that are

[00:48:44] pursuing like the 4,000 footers

[00:48:46] might have?

[00:48:48] Right. Well, the floor of the

[00:48:50] Pemijawasit Wilderness is truly

[00:48:52] amazing if you're looking to get

[00:48:54] away.

[00:48:56] Like the area around, well,

[00:48:58] maybe I won't say because, you

[00:49:00] know, then people are going to go

[00:49:02] there.

[00:49:04] That's true. Don't give away all

[00:49:06] the secrets. But, well, I can tell

[00:49:07] you a little bit, like, so coming

[00:49:09] down the Lincoln Slide to go to

[00:49:11] Owl's Head, like without giving a

[00:49:13] lot of detail, like you can follow

[00:49:15] that drainage. And then if you go

[00:49:17] left or you go right, there's all

[00:49:19] kinds of fun, you know, open

[00:49:21] forest that you can traverse and

[00:49:22] check out.

[00:49:24] You know, wasn't too long ago I

[00:49:26] went up Cedar Brook Trail.

[00:49:28] So up by the Hancocks and then out

[00:49:30] the backside and then connected

[00:49:32] with the floor of the Pemijawasit.

[00:49:34] And it was just absolutely

[00:49:35] amazing and totally worth being

[00:49:37] there.

[00:49:39] You know, you don't have to hit

[00:49:41] the peaks to find something

[00:49:43] amazing, but you're going to want

[00:49:45] to know how to read a map because

[00:49:47] you're going to get lost if you're

[00:49:49] not paying attention.

[00:49:51] Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:49:53] So with Trails NH, you know, you

[00:49:55] have it aggregated so that, you

[00:49:57] know, you can you can log in and

[00:49:59] do search for basically any peak

[00:50:01] in the Northeast.

[00:50:03] Can you talk through, like,

[00:50:05] through, you know, the early days

[00:50:07] of building the site and how it's

[00:50:09] progressed?

[00:50:11] And, you know, can you sort of

[00:50:13] highlight exactly some of the

[00:50:15] information that's on there?

[00:50:17] Yeah. So it started with me typing

[00:50:19] in the names of the peaks like

[00:50:21] Washington, Adams, Madison, and

[00:50:23] then building a web crawler and

[00:50:25] trying to match them up.

[00:50:27] So the web crawler found a trippy

[00:50:29] port for Adams, and then I want to

[00:50:31] tag it to the mountain of Adams and

[00:50:33] then put it on a map.

[00:50:35] And so it generated the original

[00:50:37] list and lat and long, the GPS

[00:50:39] location for all that stuff.

[00:50:41] It was really just the 48 and

[00:50:43] everything else just went into a

[00:50:45] bucket of other.

[00:50:47] But today I have a web crawler

[00:50:49] just following OpenStreetMaps and

[00:50:51] pulling in new places.

[00:50:53] So it's I get the location, the

[00:50:55] name of the location, and it's

[00:50:57] actual GPS location from

[00:50:59] OpenStreetMap.

[00:51:01] And that list keeps growing every

[00:51:03] day.

[00:51:05] Like there's a red collar every

[00:51:07] 15 minutes, I think, that goes

[00:51:09] and checks for something new.

[00:51:11] And so I compare the trip reports

[00:51:14] that the web crawlers find with

[00:51:16] the master list I got out of

[00:51:18] OpenStreetMap.

[00:51:20] Yeah.

[00:51:23] And I think the interesting thing

[00:51:25] is you're able to automate a lot

[00:51:27] of this.

[00:51:29] So like my progression, like I

[00:51:31] always, you know, I'm a

[00:51:33] researcher for sure.

[00:51:34] I can go to mountain forecast and

[00:51:36] I can go to different mapping

[00:51:38] software and, you know, other

[00:51:40] areas to get information.

[00:51:42] But the nice thing about TrailsNH

[00:51:44] is you basically aggregate all

[00:51:46] that information if you're

[00:51:48] targeting a particular hike or a

[00:51:50] particular area like you can just

[00:51:52] go on and it has it's like a

[00:51:54] one-stop shop there where it has

[00:51:56] like the weather info, the trail

[00:51:58] info, trail reports.

[00:52:00] It also has information about

[00:52:01] like here's some other summits and

[00:52:03] like trails closer to the mountain

[00:52:05] that you could consider like

[00:52:07] connecting your hike to.

[00:52:09] Yeah.

[00:52:11] You didn't have TrailsNH like

[00:52:13] fully baked so it's evolved over

[00:52:15] time, right?

[00:52:17] Oh yeah.

[00:52:18] Right.

[00:52:20] It was very simple in the

[00:52:22] beginning, just a big map with all

[00:52:24] the pins on it and you would load

[00:52:26] either Google Maps or Google

[00:52:28] Earth.

[00:52:30] I don't know if you ever used that.

[00:52:31] But it was just generated every

[00:52:33] day and so you would just see a

[00:52:35] map.

[00:52:36] But today, a lot of it got

[00:52:38] morphed into these pages like you

[00:52:40] were just describing a summit

[00:52:42] page like you can pull up any

[00:52:44] summit and I try to tell you

[00:52:46] everything I know about that

[00:52:48] summit.

[00:52:49] Is the road nearby open?

[00:52:51] You know, what were the latest

[00:52:53] trip reports?

[00:52:55] And then other aggregated stuff

[00:52:57] like how many hikes were there

[00:52:59] last year?

[00:53:01] Or what were the trip reports for

[00:53:03] last year or 10 years ago?

[00:53:05] You know, it's all in a nice

[00:53:07] database and I try to chop it up

[00:53:09] into useful information so when

[00:53:11] you're searching for your next

[00:53:13] destination, you can find

[00:53:15] everything you want to know on

[00:53:17] it.

[00:53:18] Sounds powerful.

[00:53:20] Like you saw the map today.

[00:53:22] It's been on there a few years.

[00:53:24] I designed that out of what's

[00:53:26] called Mapbox.

[00:53:28] So it's not Google Maps.

[00:53:29] It's not OpenStreetMaps.

[00:53:31] But it's similar to the data

[00:53:33] that's in OpenStreetMaps.

[00:53:35] But I didn't like the maps that

[00:53:37] I could get out there for free

[00:53:39] because when you zoom out,

[00:53:41] trails disappear.

[00:53:43] And it's like if I'm in

[00:53:45] overview mode and I plan my

[00:53:47] hike out, I need to zoom out

[00:53:49] five to ten miles to see, you

[00:53:51] know, the breadth of the mountain

[00:53:53] and where I might start and what

[00:53:55] my options are.

[00:53:56] And a lot of the maps, the

[00:53:57] trails just fall off when they

[00:53:59] get small.

[00:54:01] I've noticed that.

[00:54:02] That's annoying as heck.

[00:54:04] So yeah.

[00:54:06] And the thing I like about your

[00:54:08] you have, I don't know how many

[00:54:10] lists is on here probably about

[00:54:12] 20 or so.

[00:54:14] And the nice thing is when you

[00:54:16] view those lists, you can get a

[00:54:18] full map because that's one of

[00:54:20] the hard things to find online

[00:54:22] is you can get a lot of static

[00:54:24] pictures, but your map, you can

[00:54:26] get a lot of static pictures.

[00:54:28] And I love that these lists are

[00:54:30] when you look at the 4,000

[00:54:32] footers versus the 52 with a

[00:54:34] view versus the New Hampshire

[00:54:36] Fire Tower quest map.

[00:54:37] So it is nice.

[00:54:39] Yeah.

[00:54:41] A mistake beginners often make

[00:54:43] or they think they plan to do

[00:54:45] the 4,000 footers, but they

[00:54:47] don't look at a map to

[00:54:49] summarize where they are and

[00:54:51] they might hike one peak and

[00:54:53] miss the neighboring one and

[00:54:54] like the 4,000 footers all

[00:54:56] pinned on one map.

[00:54:58] So it's like, okay, here's my

[00:55:00] project. What two can I pick

[00:55:02] off together or three or

[00:55:04] depending who you are, eight,

[00:55:06] nine, ten, whatever.

[00:55:09] And just kind of a change of

[00:55:11] subjects here, but I'm curious

[00:55:13] like so we're around the ice

[00:55:15] were probably around the same

[00:55:17] age, but like I've grown up in

[00:55:19] the tech industry for like the

[00:55:21] last 20 plus years.

[00:55:23] I'm not hands on tech, but I

[00:55:25] am curious.

[00:55:27] So you broke in and like the

[00:55:29] nineties and into the 2000s

[00:55:31] or maybe even sooner.

[00:55:33] But the evolution of

[00:55:35] technology, do you feel like

[00:55:37] I feel like a very grateful

[00:55:39] that I grew up in the time

[00:55:41] that I did where the tech

[00:55:43] bubble was just blowing up.

[00:55:45] And obviously there's been some

[00:55:47] downturns over the years.

[00:55:49] But generally it's been a good

[00:55:51] career.

[00:55:52] I'm curious from your

[00:55:53] perspective and going from a

[00:55:55] world where you maybe wouldn't

[00:55:57] start developing on the Internet.

[00:55:59] Now you've started working more

[00:56:01] and more on the Internet.

[00:56:03] Can you talk about that

[00:56:05] experience from your

[00:56:07] perspective? And then if forward

[00:56:09] looking, what are you thinking

[00:56:11] about when you look at A.I.

[00:56:13] and the capabilities there and

[00:56:15] how that may impact a site like

[00:56:17] yours?

[00:56:18] Yeah. So Trails and H is a lot

[00:56:20] of technology.

[00:56:21] So there's a lot of crawlers.

[00:56:23] And plus, there's a massive

[00:56:25] database with every peak in New

[00:56:27] England and every park and, you

[00:56:29] know, all that stuff.

[00:56:31] And then there's just tons of

[00:56:33] code to make it user friendly.

[00:56:35] So when you go on there, you

[00:56:37] can find what you're looking

[00:56:39] for. So there's a ton of code

[00:56:41] in there.

[00:56:43] I originally wrote it in ASP

[00:56:45] because I was I had just left

[00:56:47] Hewlett Packard and everything

[00:56:49] in the house was Microsoft.

[00:56:51] So I had to learn a lot of

[00:56:53] code related.

[00:56:55] And then everything outside the

[00:56:57] real world runs on open source.

[00:56:59] So it's like I had to learn

[00:57:01] PHP.

[00:57:03] But PHP is amazing and it's

[00:57:05] fast.

[00:57:06] And there's lots of companies

[00:57:08] that are dumping resources into

[00:57:10] making it better.

[00:57:12] Facebook contributed a lot of

[00:57:14] code to PHP to make it faster

[00:57:16] and better and stronger.

[00:57:18] So, yeah, today writing the

[00:57:20] code is a lot simpler than it

[00:57:22] was 15 years ago or more.

[00:57:24] The evolution in that is just

[00:57:26] amazing.

[00:57:28] And your thoughts, have you

[00:57:30] looked at the AI large language

[00:57:32] models and how that may impact

[00:57:34] where you go in the future?

[00:57:36] So, like I mentioned, I'm a

[00:57:38] freelance website developer.

[00:57:40] So I use AI for work a couple

[00:57:44] of times a week, almost every

[00:57:46] day.

[00:57:48] Everything from like someone

[00:57:49] sends me a big schema of data

[00:57:51] and I want to store it in a

[00:57:53] database, make a database to

[00:57:55] hold it.

[00:57:56] And it's like something that

[00:57:58] would take you two hours to

[00:58:00] generate took two minutes with

[00:58:02] AI.

[00:58:04] It's like, hey, make me a

[00:58:06] database schema for this data.

[00:58:08] And boom, there it is.

[00:58:10] So that end, AI is great.

[00:58:12] But it needs a person to review

[00:58:14] it.

[00:58:15] Like I had to go through and

[00:58:17] tweak the data types, getting a

[00:58:19] number, is this stored as a

[00:58:21] number or a word or something

[00:58:23] else?

[00:58:24] So just had to fine tune it.

[00:58:26] So AI is an excellent assistant,

[00:58:28] but it's not your boss and it's

[00:58:30] not a pro.

[00:58:32] It does an excellent job at

[00:58:34] summaries.

[00:58:36] I use it for hiking related

[00:58:38] stuff like what is the hardest

[00:58:40] trail up or what is the easiest

[00:58:42] trail up?

[00:58:44] And it will give you an OK

[00:58:46] summary.

[00:58:47] But you have to double check it.

[00:58:49] It could be wrong.

[00:58:51] Got it.

[00:58:55] And you've built your own set of

[00:58:57] tools that I want to get into

[00:58:59] here.

[00:59:01] So you've got a hiking

[00:59:03] difficulty calculator, you've got

[00:59:05] a hiking time calculator and then

[00:59:07] the summit forecast.

[00:59:09] So starting with the hiking

[00:59:11] difficulty calculator, as a

[00:59:13] matter of fact, I was talking

[00:59:15] about this earlier, but I did.

[00:59:17] You always have these decisions

[00:59:18] when you're hiking like me and

[00:59:20] my friend Jake, we were like

[00:59:22] looking down on the boot spur

[00:59:24] link and we were like, do we do

[00:59:26] it? Do we don't do it?

[00:59:28] And I was like, oh, that looks

[00:59:30] damn steep.

[00:59:31] So sure enough, like we did go

[00:59:33] down it.

[00:59:35] And then today I went on to

[00:59:37] Trails NH and I was looking at

[00:59:39] the difficulty.

[00:59:40] So it's like I think it's like

[00:59:42] point six tenths of a mile and

[00:59:44] it's maybe 600 feet of elevation

[00:59:46] gain.

[00:59:47] And so the difficulty calculator

[00:59:49] is to put in the distance and

[00:59:51] the elevation gain.

[00:59:53] And then you have a like a

[00:59:55] hiking profile that defines

[00:59:57] terrifying, steep, moderately

[00:59:59] steep, gentle, flat, etc.

[01:00:01] And then it also equates

[01:00:03] essentially like, OK, that's six

[01:00:05] tenths of a mile.

[01:00:07] If we were going uphill, that

[01:00:09] would be the equivalent of

[01:00:11] walking 1.8 miles on a flat

[01:00:13] surface.

[01:00:14] So can you talk a little bit

[01:00:16] about that?

[01:00:17] Yeah, sure.

[01:00:18] So the goal is to try to

[01:00:20] express to somebody how hard

[01:00:22] is it going to be?

[01:00:24] And that's not easy.

[01:00:26] So a lot of people might

[01:00:28] know flat like, you know, so

[01:00:30] they can go for a walk in

[01:00:31] their town.

[01:00:32] So that's why the flat

[01:00:34] equivalent is in there.

[01:00:36] It's like because everybody

[01:00:38] should know what five miles

[01:00:40] flat would feel like.

[01:00:42] But so then then the

[01:00:44] calculator tries to show you,

[01:00:45] what did you say?

[01:00:47] A couple hundred.

[01:00:49] Yeah, it was like 600 feet in

[01:00:51] six tenths of a mile.

[01:00:52] Oh my God, that's steep.

[01:00:54] That's really steep.

[01:00:55] Yes.

[01:00:56] Did it come up as terrifying?

[01:00:58] Oh yeah.

[01:00:59] Right.

[01:01:01] And you're looking at the

[01:01:03] little graph there.

[01:01:05] It shows you, you know, the

[01:01:07] angle and it's going to be

[01:01:09] terrifying.

[01:01:10] So a little related story is

[01:01:12] my brother asked me, is like,

[01:01:14] I'm thinking of doing

[01:01:16] Washington.

[01:01:17] How hard?

[01:01:18] What's the easiest route and

[01:01:20] how hard is it?

[01:01:21] And I was like, he's from

[01:01:23] Florida.

[01:01:24] You know, it's like, how do

[01:01:26] you express to someone from

[01:01:28] Florida that hikes on vacation

[01:01:30] every year but doesn't hike as

[01:01:32] a hobby?

[01:01:33] How do you explain to them how

[01:01:35] hard it will be?

[01:01:37] So flatland equivalent was

[01:01:39] kind of that's where that

[01:01:41] thought came on.

[01:01:42] It was like, well, he might

[01:01:43] hike 10, 15, whatever

[01:01:45] miles.

[01:01:47] And that's a longstanding

[01:01:49] formula that's been out there.

[01:01:51] The original president for

[01:01:53] Knowles, I think, came up with

[01:01:55] that formula.

[01:01:56] They called energy miles.

[01:01:57] It's reasonable.

[01:01:58] Yeah, no, I like it.

[01:02:00] I put it, I actually put in

[01:02:02] like the profile for like the

[01:02:04] Mount Washington Auto Road,

[01:02:06] which I think is around 4000

[01:02:08] feet of elevation gain.

[01:02:10] So that's like the yeah.

[01:02:11] The flat miles are like 16

[01:02:13] flat miles equivalent.

[01:02:15] So 4000, what is it?

[01:02:17] Just shy of eight miles or

[01:02:19] 7.6 miles.

[01:02:21] Yeah.

[01:02:23] So it comes up as steep.

[01:02:24] Right.

[01:02:26] Yeah.

[01:02:27] 16.4 flat miles.

[01:02:29] So the goal here and I think,

[01:02:31] you know, there's going to be

[01:02:33] more ways to express how hard

[01:02:35] something is.

[01:02:36] But this is what I've come up

[01:02:37] with so far.

[01:02:39] It's a good visual tool.

[01:02:41] And it's fun.

[01:02:43] People can definitely go on

[01:02:45] here and play with it.

[01:02:46] And I'll put this in the show

[01:02:48] notes for people.

[01:02:49] Yeah.

[01:02:50] So and if someone has a

[01:02:52] suggestion or knows of other

[01:02:54] formulas, I'm Mike.

[01:02:56] Since I write this code from

[01:02:58] scratch, I can easily, you

[01:03:00] know, add to it like we'll get

[01:03:02] into my other calculator, which

[01:03:04] is a composite of many

[01:03:06] calculators.

[01:03:07] So this this code I write from

[01:03:09] scratch so I can expand it to

[01:03:11] other people's expectations of

[01:03:13] how hard something is going to

[01:03:15] be.

[01:03:16] Right.

[01:03:17] Yeah.

[01:03:18] Yeah.

[01:03:19] And this other so the other

[01:03:21] calculator you have is the

[01:03:23] hiking time calculator, which I

[01:03:25] think is great.

[01:03:26] I think like people that are

[01:03:28] doing, you know, especially

[01:03:30] like if you're hosting a buddy

[01:03:31] hike or doing something like

[01:03:33] that, like this is a great tool

[01:03:35] that you can utilize to, you

[01:03:37] know, to put in the distance,

[01:03:38] put in the elevation gain and

[01:03:39] trail surface and then pack

[01:03:41] right.

[01:03:42] And it calculates basically

[01:03:44] what the estimated hiking

[01:03:46] time calculator is.

[01:03:47] Is this pretty much like if you

[01:03:49] do normal inputs,

[01:03:51] does this match the book time?

[01:03:53] Nope.

[01:03:54] Book time is in there as one of

[01:03:56] the estimates. I run book time.

[01:03:58] If you look in the estimate

[01:03:59] section.

[01:04:00] Right.

[01:04:01] It comes with a bunch of different

[01:04:02] metrics.

[01:04:03] Which is a common rule.

[01:04:05] And then I run book time.

[01:04:07] So book time seems to work OK.

[01:04:09] And the whites.

[01:04:11] Nazmus rule works for easy,

[01:04:13] well-marked trails when the

[01:04:15] conditions are really quite

[01:04:17] simple and you're in a light

[01:04:19] pack.

[01:04:20] So.

[01:04:22] My buddies and I through

[01:04:24] hiking the 4000 footers, we

[01:04:26] always like knew we could take a

[01:04:28] percentage off what the book

[01:04:29] time says.

[01:04:30] You know, so we'd look up what

[01:04:32] the book time is and it's like

[01:04:34] we'll beat that by, I don't

[01:04:36] know, 20 percent or something.

[01:04:37] We always knew like that's going

[01:04:38] to be a good thing to have a

[01:04:40] backpack on.

[01:04:41] And so that's kind of how I

[01:04:43] ended up including pack weight.

[01:04:45] And also in the whites, some

[01:04:47] of the older trails are

[01:04:49] extremely, extremely rugged.

[01:04:51] The dirt is all gone.

[01:04:53] The tread way is just roots

[01:04:55] and rocks that slows you down.

[01:04:57] If it was smooth dirt, you're

[01:04:59] going to be walking across there

[01:05:01] much faster.

[01:05:03] So just from years of hiking in

[01:05:05] the whites, I've been able to

[01:05:07] experience these different

[01:05:09] things like hiking with weight,

[01:05:11] hiking very light, hiking on

[01:05:13] really rough trails, hiking on

[01:05:15] nice smooth trails.

[01:05:17] And so my attempt to put it

[01:05:19] into calculators came up with

[01:05:21] this hiking time calculator.

[01:05:23] There are a bunch of them out

[01:05:25] there on the Web that just use

[01:05:27] the standard and just use the

[01:05:29] book time and the NASMH rule.

[01:05:31] But I wanted to make it so you

[01:05:33] could dial it in to your

[01:05:34] expected experience.

[01:05:36] And I think it's pretty good.

[01:05:38] I get a lot of good feedback.

[01:05:40] Google tells me it's number one

[01:05:42] on the Internet.

[01:05:44] It gets a lot of traffic.

[01:05:46] That's cool.

[01:05:47] Yeah.

[01:05:48] And as a matter of fact, I did

[01:05:50] it.

[01:05:51] I did a couple of test runs on

[01:05:53] like my last three or four

[01:05:55] longer hikes and I just put in

[01:05:57] the info and I put in my pace

[01:05:59] as fast.

[01:06:00] Matter of fact, the hike that I

[01:06:02] did this weekend was a

[01:06:03] 15 miles, 5200 feet of vertical.

[01:06:06] And the hiking time calculator

[01:06:08] was off by six minutes.

[01:06:10] Yeah.

[01:06:11] It's pretty good.

[01:06:12] Yeah.

[01:06:13] That's tight.

[01:06:14] So I hiked every day last week.

[01:06:16] We were in Acadia, my girlfriend

[01:06:18] and I.

[01:06:19] We hiked every day and I just

[01:06:21] went I took and I'm using Strava

[01:06:24] on a Garmin watch.

[01:06:25] So I just took the stats off

[01:06:27] Strava and put them in here.

[01:06:29] It's like they were all within

[01:06:31] three minutes or five minutes.

[01:06:33] So that's cool.

[01:06:35] That's good.

[01:06:37] But you know, read your book.

[01:06:39] Do you know?

[01:06:41] Is it going to be a rough trail

[01:06:43] or is it going to be smooth?

[01:06:45] Because that's going to impact

[01:06:47] your time.

[01:06:48] And yeah.

[01:06:49] And the other the other factors.

[01:06:51] Yeah, for sure.

[01:06:53] And then the third tool you see,

[01:06:55] you have an aggregate on weather

[01:06:57] as well, which is nice because

[01:06:59] I always I tend to use like

[01:07:00] three or four different sites

[01:07:02] and look through them all.

[01:07:04] But like it's it's nice to go

[01:07:06] here and you're getting

[01:07:08] pretty accurate weather here.

[01:07:10] Maybe not.

[01:07:12] You know, obviously we always

[01:07:14] want to point people to the

[01:07:15] Higher Summit forecast.

[01:07:17] But overall, I think that the

[01:07:19] weather info that you have,

[01:07:20] you're getting it from Noah

[01:07:22] Pointcast, right?

[01:07:23] That's correct.

[01:07:24] Yeah.

[01:07:25] So Noah, I don't know if you

[01:07:27] know what the Pointcast is or

[01:07:28] not, but they take they've

[01:07:30] divided the entire U.S.

[01:07:32] into a grid.

[01:07:34] Each little square is only

[01:07:36] 1.5 miles wide or 1.55

[01:07:38] something miles wide.

[01:07:40] And they have a forecast

[01:07:42] for every little square like

[01:07:44] that across the entire U.S.

[01:07:46] So when they give you a summit

[01:07:48] forecast for Mount Moosilauk,

[01:07:50] it's really only a quarter

[01:07:52] mile, excuse me, a mile and a

[01:07:54] half square near the summit of

[01:07:56] Moosilauk.

[01:07:58] And it's dialed in at that

[01:08:00] elevation at that specific

[01:08:02] location.

[01:08:03] So I think Pointcast is about

[01:08:05] as accurate as you can get for

[01:08:07] any specific location.

[01:08:09] And so what TrailsNH does is

[01:08:11] you can just go to the summit

[01:08:13] forecast page for any summit,

[01:08:15] basically just like search for

[01:08:17] Mount Moosilauk and then there

[01:08:19] will be a button to click

[01:08:21] Mount Moosilauk summit forecast.

[01:08:23] And then I make it visuals.

[01:08:25] Noah data is excellent for

[01:08:26] it.

[01:08:27] And you can look at the Noah

[01:08:29] graphs.

[01:08:30] A lot of hikers do, but it's

[01:08:32] it's clumsy.

[01:08:34] It's hard to get a good

[01:08:36] assessment of your day, what

[01:08:38] it's going to what the weather

[01:08:40] is going to be like.

[01:08:41] So I have these really cool

[01:08:43] weather graphs that you can

[01:08:45] visually read like a map and

[01:08:47] see your day or the

[01:08:49] temperatures going to rise if

[01:08:51] the rain's coming in late or

[01:08:53] coming in early.

[01:08:55] When do the clouds come in?

[01:08:57] When do the clouds leave?

[01:08:59] You can visually see your day,

[01:09:01] the weather of your day.

[01:09:03] And a lot of people like it.

[01:09:05] I think it's it came out really

[01:09:07] good.

[01:09:08] I'm happy with it.

[01:09:10] Yeah, no, it looks great.

[01:09:12] And the other thing we didn't

[01:09:14] put this in the notes here, but

[01:09:16] I was playing around with this

[01:09:18] as well.

[01:09:20] I'm an Excel list person, so I

[01:09:22] like to check off my list.

[01:09:23] And you can, on each site, as

[01:09:25] a hiker, if you're tracking a

[01:09:27] particular list, you can you

[01:09:29] can you can mark a particular

[01:09:31] summit or fire tower or

[01:09:33] whatever completed and it will

[01:09:35] it'll mark it off on the map.

[01:09:37] It takes a little bit of time to

[01:09:39] to show up, but it is another

[01:09:41] way for you to track your

[01:09:43] progress against.

[01:09:45] Right.

[01:09:46] Yeah, it's kind of a fun way to

[01:09:48] like if you look at the 4000

[01:09:50] Putter page, there's a check

[01:09:51] out little cards and you can

[01:09:53] just go down the 4000 footer

[01:09:55] page and check off the summits

[01:09:57] you've done.

[01:09:58] And right.

[01:09:59] It'll put it on a map for you.

[01:10:01] It'll there's a Excel

[01:10:03] spreadsheet export for you.

[01:10:05] So it kind of an easy way to

[01:10:07] check off what you've done and

[01:10:09] kind of keep track.

[01:10:11] And there's a map you can share

[01:10:13] with your friends.

[01:10:15] You can send them a link to

[01:10:17] your I call it the My Hikes

[01:10:21] map.

[01:10:22] Did you hear that?

[01:10:24] Did you hear that list junkies

[01:10:26] list junkies are going to go

[01:10:28] nuts.

[01:10:29] I got four hundred and eighty

[01:10:31] two peaks checked off on my

[01:10:33] hikes map.

[01:10:35] Oh, wow.

[01:10:36] Have you done all of the

[01:10:38] Northeast 150?

[01:10:39] Have you done all the lists?

[01:10:41] Yeah.

[01:10:42] The Adirondacks, the New

[01:10:44] England 100 highest 4000

[01:10:46] footers multiple times.

[01:10:48] Yeah.

[01:10:49] Have you tackled any of the

[01:10:51] cat skills?

[01:10:52] I'm a little I'm just slowly

[01:10:54] getting to do the cat skills.

[01:10:57] Well, Stomp wants to know if

[01:10:59] you're a Bush, if you're doing

[01:11:01] the bushwhacks to the five.

[01:11:02] No, five hundred highest.

[01:11:04] No, not yet.

[01:11:05] No, no, that's a good one.

[01:11:07] That was kind of our project

[01:11:09] during COVID.

[01:11:11] We wanted to keep hiking but

[01:11:13] avoid people.

[01:11:14] So I grabbed the local map and

[01:11:16] we just pick every name summit

[01:11:18] locally and they're all

[01:11:19] Bushwhacks.

[01:11:20] So we just go hit every little

[01:11:22] named summit near us.

[01:11:24] Love it.

[01:11:25] Nice.

[01:11:26] And do you how do you pick what

[01:11:28] you're going to hike?

[01:11:30] Are you working on anything at

[01:11:32] this point or you just just

[01:11:34] decide like the couple of days

[01:11:36] before you get home?

[01:11:37] All of the above.

[01:11:39] So like last week, we're in

[01:11:41] Acadia and we hit every name

[01:11:43] summit in there.

[01:11:45] So now we're trying to redline

[01:11:46] redline the park.

[01:11:47] And so it was fun at night.

[01:11:48] We could have done these trails,

[01:11:50] but we could make kind of a

[01:11:52] convoluted hike out of these

[01:11:54] random missing segments that we

[01:11:56] haven't done.

[01:11:58] So there's a little that going

[01:12:00] on, just redlining different

[01:12:02] places.

[01:12:04] My friend's trying to finish the

[01:12:06] main 4000 footers.

[01:12:08] So we take a trip up there and do

[01:12:10] those actually kind of more than

[01:12:12] half of mine are just going with

[01:12:14] a friend to finish their list.

[01:12:16] Yeah.

[01:12:18] And it's like, you know, too,

[01:12:20] it's like, OK, like I'm jumping

[01:12:22] in with my daughter or some other

[01:12:23] friends.

[01:12:24] You get to share your experience

[01:12:26] and help them.

[01:12:28] Help them.

[01:12:30] That's great.

[01:12:31] Exactly.

[01:12:32] And I think that the you know,

[01:12:33] with all this technology, it's

[01:12:35] great. And I think Kimball, we

[01:12:37] didn't talk about this ahead of

[01:12:38] time, but I think I just I

[01:12:40] picked up on a couple of

[01:12:42] comments you made already.

[01:12:43] Like, we do want to remind people

[01:12:45] that, you know, the guidebooks in

[01:12:46] the in the paper maps themselves

[01:12:47] are great for research and make

[01:12:49] sure that you're prepared to get

[01:12:51] out there.

[01:12:53] But obviously the enhancements that

[01:12:55] you have on a website like

[01:12:57] Trails NH is light years

[01:12:59] ahead of where I think even,

[01:13:01] you know, 10 years ago when I

[01:13:03] started, like I, you know, most of

[01:13:05] the time it was just word of mouth.

[01:13:07] Yeah. So you'll notice if you

[01:13:09] were talking about the peak pages

[01:13:11] earlier, a page that summarizes

[01:13:13] everything you need to know or

[01:13:14] everything Trails NH knows about a

[01:13:15] guidebook.

[01:13:16] It's like so you look up, I'll

[01:13:18] go to Moosilauk again.

[01:13:20] You look up Moosilauk and it's

[01:13:22] going to say, you know, you

[01:13:24] should grab your White Mountain

[01:13:26] Guide or, you know, you pick a

[01:13:28] 52 with a view peak and it'll

[01:13:30] show you the book and a link to

[01:13:32] buy it.

[01:13:34] And people do buy books and maps

[01:13:36] off the site.

[01:13:38] It's pretty common.

[01:13:40] Yeah.

[01:13:42] And the aggregate on the trail

[01:13:44] conditions is great, too.

[01:13:46] So, you know, you can you can go

[01:13:48] right to the trail reports via

[01:13:50] the Trails NH section on

[01:13:53] right on the mountain page when

[01:13:55] you when you click on it.

[01:13:57] So it's just a convenient

[01:13:59] one-stop shop so you don't have

[01:14:01] to click around to 17 different

[01:14:03] websites.

[01:14:04] Right. That's that's its goal

[01:14:06] basically to become a dashboard

[01:14:08] to put what you need to know

[01:14:10] under your fingertips.

[01:14:12] Yeah, no, it's a great idea.

[01:14:13] Can you take can you take all

[01:14:15] the transcripts and show notes

[01:14:17] for our like our podcast and

[01:14:19] make something cool out of it?

[01:14:21] I've been thinking about that at

[01:14:23] some point. Like, do you need an

[01:14:25] internship or something?

[01:14:27] Oh, God.

[01:14:29] Yeah, I thought that was supposed

[01:14:31] to be one of your daughters last

[01:14:33] summer.

[01:14:35] I know, I know.

[01:14:36] They're not as smart as you.

[01:14:38] Are you going to get a map from

[01:14:40] your podcast?

[01:14:41] We have transcripts.

[01:14:43] We haven't ever actually done

[01:14:45] that. And then we have show notes.

[01:14:47] So we have like detailed show

[01:14:49] notes of every hour, you know,

[01:14:51] every guest and articles and all

[01:14:53] this stuff. So I've had this

[01:14:55] vision that at some point I got

[01:14:57] to pull all this stuff together

[01:14:59] and make some kind of a cool

[01:15:01] knowledge base. But, you know,

[01:15:03] it sounds like you're too busy

[01:15:05] Kimball. So, you know, maybe

[01:15:07] when we really blow up and we

[01:15:09] get a bucket of money, we'll pay

[01:15:11] you.

[01:15:13] That's what it knows, you know.

[01:15:15] So it's like, well, he talked

[01:15:17] about Mount Adams, you know, like

[01:15:19] 10 minutes in over here and they

[01:15:21] talked about whatever else over

[01:15:23] there. So I don't know where you

[01:15:25] talked about it, but.

[01:15:27] Yeah, that would be cool.

[01:15:29] That's funny.

[01:15:31] Someday we can barely keep up

[01:15:33] with what we have right now.

[01:15:35] But like, I'm impressed though,

[01:15:37] Kimball, like this is a great

[01:15:39] work. And then do you have any

[01:15:40] other questions?

[01:15:42] We talked about the calculator,

[01:15:44] the difficulty calculator. I

[01:15:46] would like to find ways to help

[01:15:48] express how hard something is

[01:15:50] going to be. That's on the back

[01:15:52] burner. And I would also like to

[01:15:54] add, how do you decide which

[01:15:56] route for the mountain? Pick a

[01:15:58] mountain. Like I said, Moosilauk

[01:16:00] before. So you can basically go

[01:16:02] all four compass headings on

[01:16:04] Moosilauk. So which one's best

[01:16:06] for you?

[01:16:07] What's the difference? So

[01:16:09] there's nobody really out there

[01:16:11] talking about what's the

[01:16:13] difference, what are the routes,

[01:16:15] how do you compare those routes?

[01:16:17] And so I'd like to start playing

[01:16:19] around with something in that

[01:16:21] avenue.

[01:16:23] Wow.

[01:16:24] Yeah, I think that that would be

[01:16:26] fascinating to, you know, is

[01:16:28] basically just pick out like the

[01:16:30] top two, three routes of each

[01:16:32] summit and then yeah, put all

[01:16:34] the routes together.

[01:16:36] Put it into your difficulty

[01:16:38] calculator and then give people

[01:16:40] some guidance. It's an

[01:16:42] interesting idea for sure because

[01:16:44] I think a lot of times the people

[01:16:47] I see on social media will come

[01:16:49] up and they ask that specific

[01:16:51] question and people just give

[01:16:53] their subjective, you know, their

[01:16:55] opinions. But, you know, there's

[01:16:57] no real data behind it a lot of

[01:16:59] the time.

[01:17:01] To talk about that a little more

[01:17:03] like on social media is like

[01:17:04] the person commenting, have they

[01:17:06] done them all?

[01:17:08] All routes of that or did they

[01:17:10] only done the one and suggesting

[01:17:12] well I did it this way and it was

[01:17:14] great you should do it the way I

[01:17:16] did. Versus, you know, I've done

[01:17:18] all four, this is the one you

[01:17:20] might like.

[01:17:23] Yeah, and even like the question

[01:17:25] we get all the time, it's an

[01:17:27] interesting one, is okay what's

[01:17:29] the easiest 4,000 footer to start

[01:17:31] with? And I always am like well

[01:17:33] okay, there's Pierce Crawford

[01:17:34] there's Osceola from Livermore

[01:17:36] there's Hill from the Fire

[01:17:38] Wardens Trail if you're talking

[01:17:40] about in the summer and then, you

[01:17:42] know, there's Womback and, you

[01:17:44] know, maybe there's one that I'm

[01:17:46] not thinking of but like, you

[01:17:48] know, taking a look and saying

[01:17:50] like okay let's look at all those

[01:17:52] routes and then factor in the

[01:17:54] difficulty. You know, I don't

[01:17:56] know if there's anybody that's

[01:17:58] ever done anything like data

[01:18:00] driven around those use cases.

[01:18:02] Right, yeah, so you could combine

[01:18:04] those two and then you could

[01:18:06] compare the three routes.

[01:18:08] And I think that's a really

[01:18:10] interesting way to compare

[01:18:12] routes, because I think that

[01:18:14] there's a lot of people that

[01:18:16] would like to say well it

[01:18:18] would take you this long and

[01:18:20] it's going to be this hard and

[01:18:22] here's how you compare the three

[01:18:24] routes. The difference in time,

[01:18:26] the difference in effort but

[01:18:28] that doesn't give you the

[01:18:30] difference in quality like the

[01:18:32] view is way more amazing from

[01:18:33] the view of the person who

[01:18:35] gave them that view to the

[01:18:37] Presidentials because that's

[01:18:39] going to give them the hook even

[01:18:41] if it's a little bit more

[01:18:43] difficult than like the fire

[01:18:45] warden's trail.

[01:18:47] Well, I know Eisenhower Edmonds

[01:18:49] path, it's consistent, it's

[01:18:51] forgiving, it's a little

[01:18:53] farther but the view is, you

[01:18:55] know.

[01:18:57] Oh, but that final push up to

[01:18:59] the summit is rough. You're

[01:19:01] gonna make him quit, Kimball.

[01:19:03] Totally different but like just

[01:19:05] that sort of side angle hill

[01:19:07] in winter as you come up the

[01:19:09] backside is like it's a pain in

[01:19:11] the neck but in the summer, it's

[01:19:13] fine.

[01:19:15] Right, and see, human memory is

[01:19:17] tainted by that, you know, the

[01:19:19] experience you had. It should

[01:19:21] have been that bad and you tell

[01:19:23] people it was bad. It's like I

[01:19:25] tell people I hate Pasa Conway

[01:19:27] because it rained the entire

[01:19:29] time, I was with people I didn't

[01:19:31] end up liking and then this was

[01:19:33] the next one, multiple, you know,

[01:19:35] so it's like, yeah, Pasa Conway,

[01:19:37] I'll never go there again.

[01:19:39] That's funny. Yeah, Mrs. Stomp

[01:19:41] is like that too. She hates it.

[01:19:43] Oh, I do too. I think it's like,

[01:19:45] I think it's, for me, I just got

[01:19:47] bad vibes. I just think that

[01:19:49] there's bad spirits up there.

[01:19:51] It's something like I just got a

[01:19:53] weird, but it was the same thing

[01:19:55] Kimball. I was on, I hiked it on

[01:19:57] a rainy day on my own and I just

[01:19:59] got spooked and I was like, I

[01:20:01] don't like it up there. I have

[01:20:02] never been on their list, but

[01:20:04] every time I go, I just get a

[01:20:06] weird vibe.

[01:20:07] I've been back, but it's my

[01:20:09] least favorite.

[01:20:11] Yeah, yeah, I agree on that.

[01:20:13] So, so this is what about, what

[01:20:15] kind of gear do you typically

[01:20:17] take? Are you like a person that

[01:20:19] tries to travel pretty light or

[01:20:21] do you tend to take like a lot of

[01:20:23] gear? What's your philosophy on

[01:20:25] that?

[01:20:27] Yeah, so somewhere in the middle,

[01:20:29] I'm always, I will always have my

[01:20:30] gear. I mean, that's, that's just,

[01:20:32] it's just always going to be there.

[01:20:34] I'm always going to have water.

[01:20:36] I'm always going to have light.

[01:20:38] The rest, I don't know if I'll

[01:20:40] have. Well, so last weekend I was

[01:20:42] hiking, it was probably 70 degrees

[01:20:44] every day. I still had gloves and a

[01:20:46] hat in my pack.

[01:20:48] Yeah, tis the season though.

[01:20:50] Huh?

[01:20:51] Tis the season though. I mean, it's

[01:20:53] still a little wild out there.

[01:20:55] Right. You never know. It could be

[01:20:57] a hard win and you're going to feel

[01:20:59] like you're going to be in a

[01:21:01] little bit of trouble.

[01:21:03] Yeah, so I'm, I guess I'm somewhat

[01:21:05] on the heavy side of going light.

[01:21:07] I don't bring a lot of stuff.

[01:21:09] I don't want anything hanging on

[01:21:11] me. You know, like you'll see

[01:21:13] hikers and they got different

[01:21:15] devices hanging on them and

[01:21:17] swinging and it's like, I don't

[01:21:19] want anything outside of my pack

[01:21:21] unless, you know, unless it's

[01:21:23] really something I need to grab.

[01:21:25] But everything should be put away

[01:21:27] inside my backpack.

[01:21:29] But I will always have first aid

[01:21:31] kit, GORE-TEX jacket, light

[01:21:33] snacks or food.

[01:21:35] Pretty much always.

[01:21:38] And then you year round, you

[01:21:40] hike in the winter as well?

[01:21:42] I do. Although less and less.

[01:21:44] Yeah.

[01:21:46] Well, I think this has been

[01:21:48] interesting. So I'll make sure I

[01:21:50] put everything in the show notes

[01:21:52] here. So there's a couple of ways

[01:21:54] that you can also support the

[01:21:55] site. I think you have a donation

[01:21:57] page, but you also sell some really

[01:21:59] great stuff.

[01:22:01] We can include those in the show

[01:22:03] notes.

[01:22:04] Yeah. And for coming on the show

[01:22:06] tonight, I thought, well, maybe

[01:22:08] I'll put something together. So I

[01:22:10] just created a mixed pack, you

[01:22:12] know, like we buy beer and a mix

[01:22:14] pack now because I love Lord

[01:22:16] Hobo Mix Pack.

[01:22:18] So I put together a mix pack

[01:22:20] and get all five stickers, you

[01:22:22] know, at a promo price.

[01:22:24] Who does your design for those?

[01:22:26] They're fantastic looking.

[01:22:27] They're very attractive.

[01:22:29] They catch your eye.

[01:22:31] Yeah. Well, so the two that are

[01:22:33] about beer up a mountain down a

[01:22:35] beer, I also had the assistant

[01:22:37] of AI.

[01:22:39] OK.

[01:22:40] So I some of that is AI

[01:22:42] generated and some of that is me.

[01:22:44] Yeah.

[01:22:46] I like that saying up a mountain

[01:22:48] down a beer. And then you've got

[01:22:50] a couple of different versions of

[01:22:52] like you've got the Trail New

[01:22:54] Hampshire logo and then you get a

[01:22:55] little bit of the Austin

[01:22:57] Footers. So these are cool

[01:22:59] stickers. So we'll make sure that

[01:23:01] we include these in the show notes

[01:23:03] and then you've got a donation

[01:23:05] page. I think, you know,

[01:23:07] probably just all the storage and

[01:23:09] everything that it costs to run

[01:23:11] the site's probably not cheap.

[01:23:13] So if anybody wants to help him

[01:23:15] out, then we'll include that in

[01:23:17] our link as well.

[01:23:19] It's probably more than most

[01:23:21] people spend on gear.

[01:23:23] I bet.

[01:23:24] A lot of processing.

[01:23:26] A lot of robots that are running

[01:23:28] around doing stuff.

[01:23:30] So you've got friendly bots

[01:23:32] that are crawling.

[01:23:34] Do you ever get anyone that says

[01:23:36] like, hey, I don't want you

[01:23:38] crawling on my.

[01:23:39] Not anymore.

[01:23:41] It used to be that way.

[01:23:43] Well, I used to show when I put

[01:23:45] it on a map just as Google would

[01:23:47] they would show you a snippet like

[01:23:49] the first two sentences of the

[01:23:51] post. And I used to do that and

[01:23:53] I'd say, why are you including my

[01:23:55] text? It's like it's the exact

[01:23:57] same text Google has.

[01:23:59] Yeah.

[01:24:01] So I don't do that anymore.

[01:24:03] I just link to the title and I

[01:24:05] use the title of the post and

[01:24:07] you're on your own to go read it,

[01:24:09] I guess.

[01:24:11] Yeah.

[01:24:12] Yeah.

[01:24:13] But no, people don't complain

[01:24:15] anymore.

[01:24:16] The goal of a website now is to

[01:24:18] like get more traffic.

[01:24:20] So they hope Trails and H picks

[01:24:21] up.

[01:24:23] Yeah.

[01:24:24] Yeah, it makes sense.

[01:24:26] And then like you say, you're

[01:24:28] aggregating a lot of important

[01:24:30] information and I highly

[01:24:32] recommend this to the listeners

[01:24:34] to check out.

[01:24:36] It's especially the calculators

[01:24:38] that really will give you an

[01:24:40] honest assessment of how long

[01:24:42] and how difficult it's going to

[01:24:44] be to get out there.

[01:24:46] Yeah.

[01:24:48] The one other thing we didn't

[01:24:49] talk about is the date.

[01:24:51] And so Trails and H has been

[01:24:53] harvesting what the Forest

[01:24:55] Service has said for years.

[01:24:57] And then I decided like, well,

[01:24:59] I have the dates of when it

[01:25:01] opened in 2009.

[01:25:03] Yeah.

[01:25:04] And 2010 and 11 and so on.

[01:25:06] So it's like, why don't I

[01:25:08] estimate based on all the years

[01:25:10] of the past when it opened?

[01:25:12] So that's what it does.

[01:25:14] It now estimates when it's going

[01:25:16] to be opened or closed.

[01:25:18] Some years are muddier than

[01:25:20] others, more snow than others,

[01:25:22] but it's pretty close.

[01:25:24] And it's better than no

[01:25:26] estimate at all.

[01:25:28] It's like sometime in May.

[01:25:30] Right.

[01:25:31] And do you obviously get human

[01:25:33] intelligence too because like

[01:25:35] word gets out over social media.

[01:25:37] Do you track that at all or is

[01:25:39] it just based on estimates on

[01:25:41] prior years?

[01:25:43] Just based on estimates on

[01:25:45] prior years.

[01:25:46] Yeah.

[01:25:47] I mean, I'm like someone will

[01:25:49] go on there the day that the

[01:25:51] road opens and say, oh, I saw

[01:25:53] this morning it would open or

[01:25:55] I drove by at four o'clock.

[01:25:57] It was it was open or closed

[01:25:59] depending on the season.

[01:26:01] Yeah.

[01:26:02] There's a lot of active hikers

[01:26:04] that will come and then post

[01:26:06] the common, very popular

[01:26:08] routes.

[01:26:09] And then the others I noticed

[01:26:11] the Forest Service posts on

[01:26:13] their Facebook page.

[01:26:14] So I have every every year,

[01:26:16] every gate going back in

[01:26:18] time.

[01:26:20] And do you have is there a

[01:26:22] particular road that's like

[01:26:24] less reliable than others that

[01:26:26] stands out to you?

[01:26:27] Sawyer?

[01:26:29] Less reliable.

[01:26:31] Well, yeah, like it varies a

[01:26:33] lot like we, you know, it

[01:26:35] opens one, you know, and oh

[01:26:37] yeah, two weeks ago last year

[01:26:39] and now it's like two weeks

[01:26:41] earlier.

[01:26:42] Yeah.

[01:26:43] And I was like, well, it was

[01:26:45] going to open, it should open

[01:26:47] on this date plus or minus X

[01:26:49] number of days.

[01:26:50] And it was like 20 days.

[01:26:52] I don't remember what road

[01:26:54] that was.

[01:26:55] It's like that statistics not

[01:26:57] helpful.

[01:26:58] Right.

[01:26:59] I feel like Nash Stream Road

[01:27:01] is one of those roads that

[01:27:03] like it's it's one of the last

[01:27:04] ones to open.

[01:27:05] But I haven't seen much

[01:27:07] weird this year.

[01:27:08] Like the forecast said it would

[01:27:10] come in early May and it didn't

[01:27:12] come in late.

[01:27:13] That's weird.

[01:27:14] I don't know why.

[01:27:15] Was it muddier than normal or

[01:27:17] are they working on it?

[01:27:19] I would assume maintenance plays

[01:27:21] a big role in that.

[01:27:23] Or winter storms this year like

[01:27:25] Wild River got beat up.

[01:27:27] Yeah.

[01:27:28] Or Evans Notch got beat up.

[01:27:30] We had the heavy rainstorms too.

[01:27:32] Yeah, heavy rain or late late

[01:27:34] winter storms beat up some of

[01:27:36] the roads and then Sawyer is

[01:27:38] like probably not going to open

[01:27:40] at all.

[01:27:41] And then you talked about the

[01:27:43] website traffic like does your

[01:27:45] traffic spike in May and June

[01:27:47] when people are starting to

[01:27:49] plan for hikes or is it pretty

[01:27:51] pretty level throughout the year?

[01:27:53] No, it definitely spikes in May.

[01:27:55] Actually, people start looking in

[01:27:57] April wishing the road would be

[01:27:59] open.

[01:28:00] Yeah.

[01:28:01] But it almost never happens.

[01:28:03] Definitely a lot of traffic for

[01:28:05] the roads.

[01:28:06] And then like

[01:28:07] the first few days of winter,

[01:28:09] like the winter hikers spike

[01:28:11] the peak baggers trying to get

[01:28:13] 4000 footers in December.

[01:28:15] Oh, yeah.

[01:28:17] That's a pretty impressive spike.

[01:28:19] Do you see analytics about like

[01:28:21] outside of New England?

[01:28:23] Do you have like certain states

[01:28:25] that you get more traffic from

[01:28:27] than others?

[01:28:28] Oh, yeah.

[01:28:30] Yeah, I get a lot of traffic

[01:28:32] from Massachusetts because they

[01:28:34] like to drive to New Hampshire to

[01:28:36] get to the top of the mountain.

[01:28:38] And I don't know if it's because

[01:28:40] they're a tourist crowd, but we

[01:28:42] love it.

[01:28:43] At least they're looking.

[01:28:45] Yeah.

[01:28:47] Well, I was born in Boston.

[01:28:49] So yeah.

[01:28:51] Yeah.

[01:28:53] And yeah.

[01:28:55] So most of the information that

[01:28:57] the robots find are pretty much

[01:28:59] centered in the whites.

[01:29:01] Like and you can look at the

[01:29:03] information tab.

[01:29:04] And it's like, this is a hot

[01:29:06] spot, like tons of information.

[01:29:08] And then as it spreads out

[01:29:10] through New England, it gets

[01:29:12] less and less and less.

[01:29:14] People love to talk about hiking

[01:29:16] in the whites.

[01:29:18] Yeah, they sure do.

[01:29:20] But no, Kimball, this has been

[01:29:22] great.

[01:29:24] We appreciate you joining us.

[01:29:26] And then I think if we have any

[01:29:28] really advanced technical

[01:29:30] questions, we know.

[01:29:32] I mean, I know some pretty solid

[01:29:33] questions.

[01:29:35] But I'm not going to be knocking

[01:29:37] on your door.

[01:29:38] So, yeah.

[01:29:40] Yeah, this has been fantastic.

[01:29:42] So, hey, Mike, our future

[01:29:44] project should be actually

[01:29:46] tracking where accidents happen.

[01:29:48] Yes, I have all the data.

[01:29:50] We just need to visualize it so

[01:29:52] I can.

[01:29:54] The database is yours.

[01:29:56] You know, wouldn't that be

[01:29:58] helpful to a hiker to know, you

[01:30:00] know, four people were rescued

[01:30:01] and that separately.

[01:30:03] I feel like we've been having

[01:30:05] an exchange briefly like a couple

[01:30:07] of years ago.

[01:30:08] But yeah, I would be happy to

[01:30:10] share that with you to see if

[01:30:12] you want to run with it.

[01:30:14] Yeah, yeah.

[01:30:16] It'd be another kind of like

[01:30:18] road status.

[01:30:20] You have people contribute.

[01:30:22] Well, there's a rescue over

[01:30:24] here.

[01:30:26] There was a rescue over here.

[01:30:28] And just see if there's a

[01:30:30] listener standby.

[01:30:32] Maybe we'll have an update.

[01:30:34] So that's cool.

[01:30:36] Yeah.

[01:30:37] Awesome.

[01:30:39] Well, thank you so much, Kimball.

[01:30:41] And we'll look forward to maybe

[01:30:43] reconnecting with you in the

[01:30:45] future.

[01:30:47] But for listeners, definitely

[01:30:49] check out and trails NH.com.

[01:30:51] And we'll make sure we include

[01:30:53] everything in the show.

[01:30:55] Kimball, let us know if you have

[01:30:57] any updates on the site to we

[01:30:58] love to talk about it.

[01:31:00] Sounds good.

[01:31:01] Thank you.

[01:31:03] You're welcome.

[01:31:05] And it's great to talk to you guys.

[01:31:09] This was fun.

[01:31:11] Good, good.

[01:31:13] Awesome.

[01:31:15] Thank you.

[01:31:17] Thank you.

[01:31:19] We'll see you.

[01:31:21] And we're back.

[01:31:23] We are back.

[01:31:25] So pretty good stuff.

[01:31:27] I think I'm going to pick up

[01:31:28] on that.

[01:31:30] You know, I think if we had

[01:31:32] a half of Kimball's brain and

[01:31:33] your brain, we would have like

[01:31:35] half a Kimball's brain.

[01:31:37] I bet.

[01:31:39] Yeah, totally.

[01:31:41] It's really impressive.

[01:31:43] And to be honest with you, I

[01:31:45] didn't know that the site had

[01:31:47] that summit forecast feature as

[01:31:49] well.

[01:31:50] So I'm going to go check that

[01:31:52] out.

[01:31:53] Very cool.

[01:31:55] Yeah.

[01:31:56] And it's a nice visual.

[01:31:57] Those are those are really,

[01:31:59] really impressive tools.

[01:32:01] Awesome stuff.

[01:32:05] Let's dive into some White

[01:32:07] Mountains history, shall we?

[01:32:15] All right.

[01:32:16] Stop.

[01:32:18] So I spent a little bit of time

[01:32:20] in the hammock reading a book

[01:32:22] over the weekend.

[01:32:24] So I figured I would share a

[01:32:26] cool like a not a cool story,

[01:32:28] but an interesting story from

[01:32:30] 1983 going back into the, I

[01:32:32] guess, late winter into spring

[01:32:33] of time where and we get

[01:32:35] these every once in a while in

[01:32:37] the winter like we had this

[01:32:39] like recently where you get

[01:32:41] this like melting period and

[01:32:43] then there's a ton of rain and

[01:32:45] then a quick freeze and you'll

[01:32:47] find like the I don't spend a

[01:32:49] lot of time on the the pink

[01:32:51] notch side of Mount Washington

[01:32:53] are mostly in the winter stick

[01:32:55] to the ammonious oxide.

[01:32:57] But even even even the

[01:32:59] ammonious oxide, I've

[01:33:01] experienced these conditions

[01:33:02] and March of end of March

[01:33:04] in 1983, there was a

[01:33:06] period where basically

[01:33:08] Mount Washington turned into

[01:33:10] a sheet of ice and there was

[01:33:12] two people that died in two

[01:33:14] different incidents and slip

[01:33:16] and fall situations.

[01:33:18] So I wanted to just share

[01:33:20] this story.

[01:33:22] It was first covered in

[01:33:24] Appalachia summer 1984 edition.

[01:33:26] So I'm going to recap it and

[01:33:28] there's a lot of moving parts

[01:33:30] here.

[01:33:32] So I'm going to tell the

[01:33:34] story and stop you can just

[01:33:36] jump in if you have any

[01:33:38] questions.

[01:33:39] Sure.

[01:33:40] All right.

[01:33:42] So this is the story of two

[01:33:44] friends, Ken Hawkinson, 23

[01:33:46] years old, and his friend Ali

[01:33:48] Kashkuli.

[01:33:50] So Ali was new to the United

[01:33:52] States.

[01:33:54] I think he moved to the U.S.

[01:33:56] sometime in the early 80s.

[01:33:58] He emigrated from Iran to

[01:34:00] attend the University of Maine.

[01:34:02] He always loved

[01:34:04] mountaineering and mountain

[01:34:06] climbing.

[01:34:07] So Ali, when he moved to the

[01:34:09] United States, he had gotten

[01:34:11] involved in some of the outdoor

[01:34:13] clubs in Maine.

[01:34:15] So he had met Ken through

[01:34:17] their attending University of

[01:34:19] Maine and they quickly became

[01:34:21] friends through their love of

[01:34:23] the outdoors.

[01:34:25] The highlight of their new

[01:34:27] friendship was a week-long trip

[01:34:29] to Baxter State Park where they

[01:34:30] and Ali experienced some amazing

[01:34:32] views and some serene weather on

[01:34:34] their trip to Katahdin.

[01:34:36] So given their success at

[01:34:38] Baxter, the pair planned a

[01:34:40] spring trip to Mount

[01:34:42] Washington.

[01:34:43] Unfortunately, this trip did not

[01:34:45] they did not fare as well as

[01:34:47] they did when they were in

[01:34:49] Baxter.

[01:34:50] So their trip on Mount

[01:34:52] Washington started on March 21st

[01:34:54] 1983.

[01:34:55] In the days prior to the trip on

[01:34:57] Mount Washington, the weather

[01:34:58] had been significant rain that

[01:35:00] had fallen and then there was a

[01:35:02] fast drop in temperatures.

[01:35:04] The result was that the pair

[01:35:06] was forced to travel on solid

[01:35:08] ice for most of the trip.

[01:35:10] They did have all the required

[01:35:12] equipment with crampons and ice

[01:35:14] axes.

[01:35:16] But even that was it was

[01:35:18] challenging due to the amount of

[01:35:20] ice.

[01:35:21] So they spent Monday night at

[01:35:23] Hermit Lake Shelter and then on

[01:35:25] Tuesday, Wednesday, they were

[01:35:27] going to stay at Lakes of the

[01:35:29] Cloud.

[01:35:30] So I think back then, like

[01:35:32] Lakes of the Clouds must have

[01:35:34] been open or available for

[01:35:36] self-service.

[01:35:37] Obviously, they didn't shut it

[01:35:39] down or either that or they

[01:35:41] stayed in the dungeon.

[01:35:42] I don't know.

[01:35:43] Yeah, I'm not sure.

[01:35:45] I mean, that's always an

[01:35:47] option.

[01:35:48] Yeah.

[01:35:49] Yeah.

[01:35:50] So but basically the weather I

[01:35:52] think they had planned a longer

[01:35:54] trip, but unfortunately, the

[01:35:55] weather was so bad that that

[01:35:57] Thursday that they were going to

[01:35:59] bail on the rest of the trip and

[01:36:01] head back down to Pinkham Notch.

[01:36:03] So they decided that they were on

[01:36:05] their way out, they were going to

[01:36:07] ascend to the summit and then

[01:36:09] they would head down to Pinkham.

[01:36:11] I'm assuming it was to be the

[01:36:13] Lion's Head Trail.

[01:36:14] So they did make their way up to

[01:36:16] the summit.

[01:36:18] The wind conditions picked up,

[01:36:20] but luckily they experienced a

[01:36:22] little bit of clearing when they

[01:36:23] got to the top.

[01:36:24] So Ken, Ali recalls that Ken was

[01:36:26] feeling really good about like,

[01:36:28] hey, you know, at least we got a

[01:36:30] little bit of a view here and,

[01:36:32] you know, it was worth it.

[01:36:34] So we kind of took this risk to

[01:36:36] climb up and now we're getting

[01:36:38] the payoff.

[01:36:39] And Ken was a big guy.

[01:36:41] He was 23 years old, loved the

[01:36:43] mountains.

[01:36:44] And, you know, Ali and Ken spent

[01:36:46] some time up there.

[01:36:48] The wind was picking up, but they

[01:36:50] felt like, OK, we got visibility

[01:36:51] down.

[01:36:53] They headed down towards the

[01:36:54] top of the Tuckerman Ravine Trail.

[01:36:56] And at that moment, Ali remembers

[01:36:58] that, you know, he really

[01:37:00] remembered the details that well.

[01:37:02] All he remembers is they were

[01:37:04] coming down the summit cone.

[01:37:06] They didn't travel that far yet.

[01:37:08] They were suddenly hit by 80 mile

[01:37:10] an hour winds, which caused the

[01:37:12] pier to slide from the summit cone

[01:37:14] approximately 800 feet.

[01:37:16] And they were...

[01:37:18] Wow.

[01:37:20] The details on specific locations,

[01:37:22] but 800 feet down.

[01:37:24] It sounds to me like what they

[01:37:26] were doing was coming close to

[01:37:28] Tuckerman.

[01:37:30] Somehow they had gotten off of

[01:37:32] the trail itself.

[01:37:34] They've gotten windblown and they

[01:37:36] ended up settling close to the

[01:37:38] Alpine Garden Trail.

[01:37:40] Right.

[01:37:42] In the vicinity of Raymond

[01:37:44] Cataract, which is kind of where

[01:37:46] Huntington Ravine Trail would

[01:37:48] connect with Alpine Garden.

[01:37:50] That particular area there.

[01:37:52] Right.

[01:37:54] Ali doesn't remember a lot of

[01:37:56] details.

[01:37:58] He stayed conscious during the

[01:38:00] fall and he settled, like I

[01:38:02] said, around 800 to 1000 feet

[01:38:04] down below the summit when he...

[01:38:06] Incredible.

[01:38:08] Yeah.

[01:38:10] When he came to, he was covered

[01:38:12] in blood.

[01:38:14] He had lost a glove.

[01:38:16] Conditions again, it's still very

[01:38:18] windy, very icy.

[01:38:20] Hypothermic.

[01:38:22] So he did eventually regain full

[01:38:24] consciousness, got up, looked,

[01:38:26] was able to find Ken.

[01:38:28] Unfortunately, when he did

[01:38:30] locate Ken, there was no sign of

[01:38:32] life and no movement.

[01:38:34] So Ali started immediately

[01:38:36] attempting CPR.

[01:38:38] And, you know, after some time

[01:38:40] he decided to at least make the

[01:38:42] effort to put Ken, who's a

[01:38:44] pretty big guy, to the hospital

[01:38:46] and he was able to get him

[01:38:48] out of there.

[01:38:50] Into his sleeping bag.

[01:38:52] So you can just imagine the

[01:38:54] feeling here is, you know, it's

[01:38:56] windy, icy conditions.

[01:38:58] He's just fallen 800 to 1000

[01:39:00] feet.

[01:39:01] He's injured.

[01:39:03] He's frostbitten on his hand and

[01:39:05] he's trying to save his friend.

[01:39:07] Yeah.

[01:39:09] And there's no sign of anybody.

[01:39:11] Oh, yeah.

[01:39:13] Absolutely horrifying.

[01:39:15] Yeah.

[01:39:17] Yeah.

[01:39:18] So he's, his clothes are badly

[01:39:20] shredded.

[01:39:22] He's covered in blood, icy

[01:39:24] conditions.

[01:39:26] He's fearful again of

[01:39:28] continuing to slide.

[01:39:30] So as he's doing this, they're

[01:39:32] starting to slide again.

[01:39:34] So he's fearful that he's going

[01:39:36] to be sliding.

[01:39:38] He lost his crampons.

[01:39:40] Ice axe, everything.

[01:39:42] Yeah.

[01:39:43] So his pants are all shredded up.

[01:39:45] So he's got skin exposed.

[01:39:46] And he made the decision that he

[01:39:48] was going to take the time to put

[01:39:50] Ken into a sleeping bag.

[01:39:52] So he was able to get Ken into a

[01:39:54] sleeping bag.

[01:39:56] And then he made the decision

[01:39:58] that he was going to cut across

[01:40:00] the Alpine Garden towards Lion's

[01:40:02] Head so that he could hopefully

[01:40:04] try to alert other hikers if he

[01:40:10] could find them for help.

[01:40:12] So as he starts making his way,

[01:40:14] he starts making his way over to

[01:40:16] Lion's Head.

[01:40:18] At the same time, there's two

[01:40:20] other hikers that are coming up

[01:40:22] to that area.

[01:40:24] Doug Teschner was climbing

[01:40:26] Huntington Ravine's central gully

[01:40:28] that day on a solo climb.

[01:40:30] And ultimately, he made it up.

[01:40:32] It's a risky climb as a solo

[01:40:34] hiker, but Doug was a pretty

[01:40:36] experienced hiker and had been

[01:40:38] involved in some rescues.

[01:40:40] So he decided when he got up on

[01:40:42] top of the headwall that he was

[01:40:44] going to bail out on the summit

[01:40:46] and loop back over to Lion's

[01:40:48] Head.

[01:40:49] And then after ascending the

[01:40:51] headwall, he's initially in

[01:40:53] shock at discovering, you know,

[01:40:55] at the discovery.

[01:40:57] But then ultimately, Doug

[01:40:59] decides that he's going to try

[01:41:01] to fix the sleeping bag and,

[01:41:03] you know, try to at least have

[01:41:05] him covered up a little bit

[01:41:07] better than Ali was able to do.

[01:41:09] As he's doing this, he spots

[01:41:11] Ali making his way to Lion's

[01:41:13] Head.

[01:41:15] So he decides he's going to leave

[01:41:17] Ken there.

[01:41:18] Ken is making his way to this

[01:41:20] body, to this human that's

[01:41:22] walking towards Lion's Head.

[01:41:24] So while Doug is making his way

[01:41:26] to Ali and Lion's Head, there's

[01:41:28] two other hikers that are

[01:41:30] making their way up the winter

[01:41:32] route.

[01:41:34] These two hikers are Tom Murry

[01:41:36] and Chris Hardeman.

[01:41:38] So basically, you've got Ken on

[01:41:40] Alpine Garden, likely deceased.

[01:41:42] Ali is in severe hypothermia

[01:41:44] injury situation.

[01:41:46] You've got Doug coming up from

[01:41:48] the bottom, and then you've got

[01:41:50] Tom Murry and Chris Hardeman

[01:41:52] coming up Lion's Head.

[01:41:54] So Doug makes it to Ali a little

[01:41:56] bit before Tom and Chris end up

[01:41:58] popping up.

[01:42:00] So initially, Doug's by himself

[01:42:02] with Ali.

[01:42:04] He's assessing the situation.

[01:42:06] He's like, this guy's in really

[01:42:08] bad shape.

[01:42:09] So he's trying to give him

[01:42:11] gloves.

[01:42:13] He's trying to work with him to

[01:42:15] try to get him a little bit more

[01:42:16] to the side to talk to Tom and

[01:42:18] Chris.

[01:42:19] He's like, look, this is a bad

[01:42:21] situation we're in here.

[01:42:23] So Ali's a bloody mess.

[01:42:25] He's clearly in shock.

[01:42:27] He's in danger of exposure and

[01:42:29] frostbite.

[01:42:31] Doug's working his best to get

[01:42:33] him gloves and assessing his

[01:42:35] injuries.

[01:42:37] Doug finally takes the two men

[01:42:39] aside and explains what

[01:42:41] happened.

[01:42:43] Chris quickly volunteers to say

[01:42:45] that he's going to go to the

[01:42:47] shelter.

[01:42:48] Doug is like, yeah, go.

[01:42:50] But he's like, I want to write a

[01:42:52] message.

[01:42:54] So I think Tom and Chris, they

[01:42:56] had a Bible with them and some

[01:42:58] writing material.

[01:43:00] So Doug writes a message on this

[01:43:02] page of the Bible to give to the

[01:43:04] people at Hermit Lake because

[01:43:06] he's apparently friends with

[01:43:08] some of the people that work at

[01:43:10] Hermit Lake in the rescue area.

[01:43:12] So he writes a quick note and

[01:43:13] he eventually arrives at Hermit

[01:43:15] Lake to explain that Doug and

[01:43:17] Tom are working to bring Ali

[01:43:19] down, that there's another body

[01:43:21] up there.

[01:43:23] They knew the rescue team of the

[01:43:25] people working at Hermit Lake

[01:43:27] knew Doug previously.

[01:43:29] He's a pretty experienced hiker

[01:43:31] and he'd been involved in some

[01:43:33] rescues before.

[01:43:35] So they knew it was pretty

[01:43:37] serious.

[01:43:38] Yeah.

[01:43:40] And they knew that they had some

[01:43:41] people that were going to be

[01:43:43] rescued.

[01:43:44] But they had like a three-person

[01:43:46] rescue team that immediately made

[01:43:48] their way up to Lion's Head to

[01:43:50] hopefully take over for Doug.

[01:43:52] So that team got Ali to Hermit

[01:43:54] Lake for treatment and they took

[01:43:56] him into Hermit Lake shelter,

[01:43:58] warmed him up, started treating

[01:44:00] him for hypothermia and then

[01:44:02] getting a larger team up there

[01:44:04] with a litter that can carry him

[01:44:06] down.

[01:44:08] As they handed Ali off to the

[01:44:09] rescue team, Doug then had to

[01:44:11] kind of pretty much volunteer to

[01:44:13] say like, look, I'll take the

[01:44:15] other rescue team members to

[01:44:17] hike back up to the Alpine

[01:44:19] Garden to locate Ken and we can

[01:44:21] work to get a rescue.

[01:44:23] At the same time that that's

[01:44:25] going on, notice gets out to the

[01:44:27] summit to say like, look,

[01:44:29] there's a body on Alpine

[01:44:31] Garden.

[01:44:32] Some of the people from the

[01:44:34] observatory and the summit team,

[01:44:36] they start making their way down

[01:44:38] and then they're making their way

[01:44:40] back up.

[01:44:41] You've got people from the summit

[01:44:43] coming down.

[01:44:45] They don't even know they're like

[01:44:47] maybe he's still alive.

[01:44:49] It's not the signs aren't good.

[01:44:51] But eventually, you know, Doug

[01:44:53] makes his way to the Alpine

[01:44:55] Garden with a couple of rescue

[01:44:57] members, rescue team members.

[01:44:59] And then they also link up with

[01:45:01] the people from the summit.

[01:45:03] And, you know, they determine

[01:45:05] that, you know, when Ken's

[01:45:06] going to be in the Alpine Garden

[01:45:08] and he's going to be in the

[01:45:10] Alpine Garden, he's going to be

[01:45:12] in the Alpine Garden.

[01:45:14] But three members of the team

[01:45:16] decided they were going to stay

[01:45:18] with the body while they

[01:45:20] activated Mountain Rescue

[01:45:22] Service.

[01:45:24] And the process that they used

[01:45:26] to get up to the Alpine Garden

[01:45:28] area is that they engaged with

[01:45:30] the television channel eight snow

[01:45:32] machine.

[01:45:34] And then the observatory had a

[01:45:36] five or six.

[01:45:38] And then the rescue team was able

[01:45:40] to basically get the body in a

[01:45:42] sled, bring it back up to the

[01:45:44] seven mile mark and then head

[01:45:46] back down in the snow cats.

[01:45:48] Jeez.

[01:45:50] So crazy rescue, right?

[01:45:52] Yeah.

[01:45:54] Amazing.

[01:45:56] I can picture that kind of

[01:45:58] terrain with just flat ice

[01:46:00] covering the whole thing.

[01:46:02] And I can see that happening

[01:46:04] without question.

[01:46:05] It's interesting.

[01:46:07] I only know like the

[01:46:09] Crawford Path side.

[01:46:11] I haven't climbed down

[01:46:13] Tuckerman in winter to get

[01:46:15] a sense.

[01:46:16] I mean, my impression is that

[01:46:18] like it's a bunch of rocks and

[01:46:20] that you I always assume that

[01:46:22] like you wouldn't be able to

[01:46:24] slide like that because you

[01:46:26] would just get stuck in crevices

[01:46:28] because there's so many big

[01:46:30] rocks.

[01:46:32] But I just haven't looked on

[01:46:34] the snow because I have been

[01:46:36] like, oh, my God, that's

[01:46:38] really scary.

[01:46:40] I mean, I'm not a snow

[01:46:41] man.

[01:46:43] I mean, I'm not a snow

[01:46:45] man.

[01:46:47] I have to say, I've been

[01:46:49] riding snow all my life.

[01:46:51] I've been riding snow since

[01:46:53] I was a kid.

[01:46:55] And I'm still riding snow

[01:46:57] every day.

[01:46:59] I'm still riding snow.

[01:47:01] I've also been riding snow

[01:47:02] There was some reference in the story where Doug mentioned that he was assured during

[01:47:09] the rescue that any medical bills that he had would be covered during the rescue because

[01:47:17] there was a new law that was passed in like 1982 that said essentially anybody who is

[01:47:25] involved in a rescue will get their medical bills covered for them.

[01:47:31] Doug recalls that he had previously been on a rescue 15 years prior, so this would

[01:47:37] have been 1968.

[01:47:41] He had been involved in a rescue on Huntington where he had always regretted his actions on

[01:47:48] that rescue because he had let a litter loose right above the fan while they were trying

[01:47:55] to do a rescue and the litter had dropped and it almost hit other rescuers.

[01:48:01] And he always felt like he was inches away from killing somebody.

[01:48:05] Sure, sure.

[01:48:07] Wow.

[01:48:08] Which is crazy.

[01:48:09] And then another side note to this is that three days after the March 24th fatality where

[01:48:19] Ken Hokanson passed away, there was another fatality of a gentleman by the name of Mark

[01:48:25] Brockman who was a 19-year-old student climbing Tuckerman Ravine with the Boston University

[01:48:32] Outing Club.

[01:48:33] So he died in a slip and fall accident as well.

[01:48:37] I've got conflicting reports on this one.

[01:48:39] I got to pick up the Appalachia, maybe the fall 84 one to get more details on this one,

[01:48:46] but there's conflicting details on it whether he fell in Tuckerman Ravine or he fell up above

[01:48:51] on the summit cone.

[01:48:53] It's not clear, but yeah, there was basically a lot of rescues.

[01:48:58] And then there was another fatality that went on that same week on the 19-mile trail of

[01:49:07] a gentleman from Wilmington that had a heart attack and passed away.

[01:49:11] So there's a lot of fatalities around that period of time.

[01:49:16] Right, right.

[01:49:17] Interesting.

[01:49:18] Can't mess around up there.

[01:49:20] Can't mess around and you can go from having a great time on the summit to death within

[01:49:28] seconds in the winter.

[01:49:30] It's just crazy.

[01:49:31] Yeah, it sounds like they had the right gear, but I mean, back in the 80s, maybe that information

[01:49:37] regarding the actual state of the terrain wasn't as accessible as it is today.

[01:49:44] No, absolutely.

[01:49:46] You know, we get the word out on the websites like, hey, it's really icy, not worth going

[01:49:53] to.

[01:49:54] I don't know, maybe they didn't have that luxury.

[01:49:56] I don't think so.

[01:49:57] Yeah.

[01:49:58] I'm sure locally the avalanche reports are there and things like that, but wow.

[01:50:03] Well, anyway, thought I'd share that story.

[01:50:06] I thought it was kind of interesting.

[01:50:08] Yeah, it is great.

[01:50:10] Moving on, stop.

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[01:52:15] So this is the part of the show where we are going to do recent search and rescue news.

[01:52:19] So we've got like four local stories here.

[01:52:22] I think the theme for these rescues is everybody was pretty well prepared and a lot of them

[01:52:27] had hike safeguards.

[01:52:30] That's right.

[01:52:31] And I think a lot of them were older individuals if I recall correctly.

[01:52:35] We shall see.

[01:52:36] Yeah, there's an 81 year old that needed a rescue which is impressive.

[01:52:43] He was out doing some like crazy hiking.

[01:52:46] But yeah, we go through these.

[01:52:48] So let me see.

[01:52:52] First one is on Mount Cardigan.

[01:52:54] So 1240 p.m. on Friday, so somebody's getting a head start on Memorial Day weekend.

[01:53:01] 66 year old female hiker and a friend had summited Mount Cardigan.

[01:53:06] They were descending the Clark Trail when she started feeling ill.

[01:53:10] I think the Clark Trail is the alternative trail to avoid the Holt Trail.

[01:53:14] You just got a little bit smoother.

[01:53:18] Her illness and pain quickly worsened incapacitating her.

[01:53:22] So she's a local, oh, she's a hiker from Arlington, Mass.

[01:53:27] So they had started around 9 a.m. and they had eaten lunch around noontime after they

[01:53:35] summited and then as they're coming down, this hiker started just feeling some pain.

[01:53:42] So they called the 1240, they were able to get a rescue crew to reach their location

[01:53:46] at 145 where they were able to stabilize her conditions.

[01:53:50] She was able to walk herself to an awaiting rescue UTV.

[01:53:53] She rode the UTV back reaching the trailhead around 350 and she was transported to Dartmouth

[01:54:04] Health for further evaluation.

[01:54:06] They were well prepared for their hike.

[01:54:08] So yeah, I wonder if it's like appendix or kidney stones or something.

[01:54:16] Seems like that.

[01:54:17] Could be.

[01:54:18] Yep.

[01:54:19] Yeah, could be.

[01:54:20] It happens.

[01:54:21] It happens.

[01:54:22] So this next one, so injured hiker airlifted from Edmonds Coal Cutoff Trail.

[01:54:28] So this is over by like, Edmonds Coal is not on Eisenhower.

[01:54:34] This is like Thunderstorm Junction.

[01:54:37] Oh, that's a little more.

[01:54:39] The gulf side trail.

[01:54:40] It's like Adams 5 in that area, right?

[01:54:42] Yeah, I believe so.

[01:54:44] Yeah, it's a little more remote, a little more buried into the northern prezzies.

[01:54:50] Yeah, yeah.

[01:54:51] So this came from a spot device.

[01:54:53] So there was an SOS signal from Edmonds Coal Cutoff Trail.

[01:54:57] So this is between Mount Adams and Mount Jefferson.

[01:55:00] So the company monitoring the device had no additional information to determine the type

[01:55:06] of cause of the emergency.

[01:55:09] Shortly thereafter, a 911 call was received in the same location.

[01:55:13] The call was brief and was dropped after only a report of a serious injury.

[01:55:22] So this area is about four and a half miles from the nearest road on the exposed ridgeline

[01:55:26] between Jefferson and Adams.

[01:55:29] There was no option to confirm the status of the event or the likelihood that it was

[01:55:33] a possible life-threatening situation.

[01:55:36] So a call was placed to the New Hampshire Army National Guard with a request for helicopter

[01:55:40] support.

[01:55:43] The National Guard was able to scramble a crew over and then at the same time, two Randolph

[01:55:49] Mountain Club caretakers from Grayknob were contacted.

[01:55:53] They volunteered to hike up to the ridge to locate the source of the emergency.

[01:55:59] So this has happened at 1130.

[01:56:01] The Guard helicopter left Concord just after three.

[01:56:07] Shortly thereafter, the two caretakers were able to come upon the hiker with a severely

[01:56:10] broken leg.

[01:56:12] So 27-year-old hiker from West Hartford, Connecticut had crawled about a quarter mile from where

[01:56:18] he initially suffered the injury to the junction of Edmonds Coal, Gulfside and Randolph Path,

[01:56:23] which is a good call because that's probably a more traveled area.

[01:56:26] Right.

[01:56:27] I have to imagine like this.

[01:56:30] Sunday, I mean, I'm assuming there was people doing Prezzy traverses and all kinds of activity

[01:56:35] going on there.

[01:56:36] So.

[01:56:37] Hmm.

[01:56:38] Interesting story.

[01:56:39] Yeah.

[01:56:40] Thanks again.

[01:56:41] Blackhawk arrived and they were able to land the helicopter.

[01:56:42] Medic and crew chief were able to put the hiker in a litter and load him up.

[01:56:48] And yeah, this saved a lot of time.

[01:56:50] That is not an area where you want to get a rescue crew carrying somebody.

[01:56:53] That would be insane.

[01:56:54] Yeah.

[01:56:55] That'd be a long walkout.

[01:56:58] Yeah.

[01:56:59] And the hiker's experience, he's an avid hiker.

[01:57:03] He completed the Appalachian Trail through hike and has done multiple hikes in the White

[01:57:07] Mountains and he possesses a hike safe card, all the proper gear for a prolonged stay.

[01:57:12] So he was going to be okay.

[01:57:13] Yeah.

[01:57:14] That's excellent.

[01:57:15] Good outcome.

[01:57:16] Yep.

[01:57:17] Yep.

[01:57:18] Next one is on the Rocky Branch Trail.

[01:57:21] So this is a trail that takes you up to Mount Isolation.

[01:57:25] This is typically like walking in a river this time of the year.

[01:57:30] That's true.

[01:57:32] Yeah.

[01:57:33] 7.20 PM on May 25th, which I think would be Saturday, right?

[01:57:40] 51-year-old hiker from Middleton was reported an injury to her leg.

[01:57:46] Battery died on the cell phone while talking to the 911 operator.

[01:57:52] But they were able, I guess, get her location.

[01:57:54] So about 9.38, conservation officers arrived at the trailhead and they began hiking towards

[01:58:00] the coordinates received from 911.

[01:58:03] They got to her around 11.08 and they determined that the hikers could walk out with assistance.

[01:58:13] So the hikers and the conservation officers reached the trailhead parking lot around 12.40.

[01:58:19] Both of the hikers had hike safe cards and yeah, they were able to eventually walk themselves

[01:58:26] out.

[01:58:27] Good.

[01:58:28] Good.

[01:58:29] Yeah.

[01:58:30] And then this last one, this is an interesting story.

[01:58:34] So on Tuesday, so this one just happened around 9.45 in the morning, a 911 call was received.

[01:58:50] It was a lost hiker near the High Water Trail in Beans Purchase.

[01:58:54] So this is by the Wild River over by Evans Notch.

[01:58:58] So the hiker is an 81-year-old hiker from Florida, reported having difficulty locating

[01:59:06] the trail.

[01:59:07] He had done hours of bushwhacking while attempting to follow the trail.

[01:59:13] He also basically had like fatigue at this point.

[01:59:17] So there was nighttime rains that had swollen the Wild River making crossings difficult.

[01:59:23] So there's all kinds of issues going on here.

[01:59:25] So they had to get a rescue started.

[01:59:28] So they utilized an ATV.

[01:59:30] They were able to take about five miles of washed out road to reach the area adjacent

[01:59:35] to the hiker's location.

[01:59:38] Then they were able to forward the Wild River and they located him near a river bank.

[01:59:44] He was tired, but in good spirit.

[01:59:46] So this guy's 81 years old.

[01:59:48] Right.

[01:59:49] That's hardcore.

[01:59:50] 81 years old, he's out in the Wild River on his own.

[01:59:53] Which is not an easy area.

[01:59:55] Yeah, he's on a four-day trip.

[01:59:58] He's an experienced hiker who was prepared with good gear, good physical condition.

[02:00:03] He'd been out in the woods for four days at the time of the incident, exploring trails

[02:00:07] on the east side of Mount Moriah.

[02:00:10] At the time of the call, he got turned around and expended a lot of energy following trails

[02:00:15] that had been obscured by washouts and severe events.

[02:00:20] He knew he reached his personal limit and called for rescue.

[02:00:24] We talk about this with the Dry River, but the Wild River is the same deal.

[02:00:28] Those trails are not easy to follow out there.

[02:00:31] They're not.

[02:00:32] Just looking at it, it rests in between the Bald Faces and Moriah.

[02:00:38] How long is this trail?

[02:00:40] Holy moly!

[02:00:42] This goes all the way up to the Androscoggin and starts way the heck down closer to Black

[02:00:52] Mountain.

[02:00:54] Where exactly does it start on the southern end?

[02:00:58] Is that near?

[02:00:59] I don't know, but the thing is, you look at the Carters and then you can see the Bald

[02:01:07] Faces behind them.

[02:01:08] That distance between the Carter Wildcat Range and Evans Notch is no man's land out there.

[02:01:16] It is!

[02:01:17] Absolutely!

[02:01:18] Yeah, that's a hell of a commitment.

[02:01:23] So anyway, lucky that he knew his limits and got out of there.

[02:01:29] Busy week and I expect Stomp that we'll be consistently getting rescue calls for the

[02:01:33] next probably three months, so you'll be busy.

[02:01:36] I think so!

[02:01:38] Yeah, I mean the good news is that most of the gnarly snow and ice is gone, so knock

[02:01:43] on wood, that's a good thing.

[02:01:45] But we're back into the slip and falls and just the orthopedic stuff that happens and

[02:01:49] some medicals.

[02:01:50] Yep!

[02:01:51] Alright Stomp, so remember, if you're ever climbing with me and there's ropes involved,

[02:01:57] please do not cut them.

[02:01:59] Yeah, it depends who goes first I guess.

[02:02:03] Who's in the lead.

[02:02:05] Alright, until next week!

[02:02:07] Alrighty, later!

[02:02:37] Now covered in scratches, blisters and bug bites, Chris Staff wanted to complete his

[02:02:58] most challenging day hike ever.

[02:03:00] Fish and Game officers say the hiker from Florida activated an emergency beacon yesterday

[02:03:06] morning.

[02:03:07] He was hiking along the Appalachian Trail when the weather started to get worse.

[02:03:12] Officials say the snow was piled up to three feet in some spots and there was a wind chill

[02:03:16] of minus one degree.

[02:03:17] There's three words that describe this race, do you know what they are?

[02:03:18] Only one hill!

[02:03:19] This is Lieutenant James Neelan, New Hampshire Fish and Game.

[02:03:20] Lizenda, thanks for being with us today.

[02:03:21] Thanks for having me.

[02:03:22] What are some of the most common mistakes you see people make when they're heading out

[02:03:23] on the trails to hike here in New Hampshire?

[02:03:24] It seems to me the most common is being unprepared and I think if they just simply visited Hikesafe.com

[02:03:41] and got a list of the ten essential items and had those in their packs, they probably

[02:03:45] would have no need to ever call us at all.