Episode 157 - Nick from the PUDs Podcast, White Mountains History - The Trail Masters, MWRR Recap, Trail Maintenance

[00:00:02] Here is the latest Higher Summits forecast brought to you by our friends at the Mount Washington Observatory. Weather above treeline and the White Mountains is often wildly different than at our trailheads. Before you hike, check the Higher Summits forecast at mountwashington.org.

[00:00:32] Weather observers working at the non-profit Mount Washington Observatory write this elevation-based forecast every morning and afternoon. Search and Rescue teams, avalanche experts, and backcountry guides all rely on the Higher Summits forecast to anticipate weather conditions above treeline. You should too.

[00:00:54] Go to mountwashington.org or text FORECAST to 603-356-2137. And here is your forecast for Friday, June 21st and Saturday, June 22nd. Friday, in and out of the clouds, trending towards in the clouds, chances showers and afternoon thunderstorms.

[00:01:23] High in the mid 50s, winds will be 10-25 mph with gusts up to 35 mph. Higher gusts possible with thunderstorms. Friday night, in the clouds with a chance of showers and thunderstorms mainly early. Low in the lower 50s, winds will be 20-35 mph with gusts up to 45 mph.

[00:01:47] And then Saturday, in the clouds with a chance of showers and thunderstorms. With a high in the lower to mid 50s. Winds will be 20-35 mph with gusts up to 45 mph.

[00:02:40] Broadcasting from the Woodpecker Studio in the great state of New Hampshire, welcome to the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast, where we discuss all things related to hiking and search and rescue in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. Here are your hosts, Mike and Stump.

[00:03:15] Alright, all set. Okay, we're live. We're doing it live, Stump. Yeah, we're trying. We're trying. Are you okay? I don't know. We're getting hammered. We're getting hammered by Mother Nature over here and forces bring out all the gremlins. It's Noah's Ark. Right. Yeah, it is.

[00:03:34] But yeah, let's do this. I see you're in a... Do you have your air conditioning going, Stump? I don't have air conditioning here. We just have the old school fans. Oh my God. Yeah, we live the rugged life up here in New Hampshire. Wait, I'm so weak.

[00:03:53] I can't deal with... I'm in the basement, so it's cool. But if I go upstairs, I got air conditioning. Yeah, you guys look fresh. I'm all sweaty. I'm a hot mess over here. We have our friend Nick here. This is the Nick who hikes and plays guitar. Hello.

[00:04:08] So welcome, Nick. Hello. Good to be here, guys. Glad to join. Is it weird being on another podcast? It is a little bit intimidating. I'm not going to lie. I was telling myself, me and Josh have been doing this for a bit, but it's interesting

[00:04:19] being invited to a podcast. But it'll be fun. I'm not doing as much work as normal to prepare for it, so that's cool. True, true. You just need to not screw up. Exactly. No pressure.

[00:04:31] Your name is funny because you never hike and play guitar at the same time. I've never seen that. Not yet. Not yet. That's true. That's a very fair point. It sounds dangerous. Sounds dangerous in the whites. Maybe on like a mellow flat trail.

[00:04:46] You need to start off with a pool noodle. Practice with a noodle first and then move up to a guitar. It's much more forgiving than hitting someone with a guitar, I think. If you whack someone with a pool noodle. All right.

[00:04:59] Well, anyway, I want to start the show off with a fact check. We got reprimanded by a listener. Uh-oh. Let's do it. What is this? I always love these because I didn't pull this article, so I blame it on you.

[00:05:11] Maybe you did that article about how the Forest Service is carrying Narcan just in case one of the officers gets exposed to fentanyl. Right, right. So we had a listener reach out and they just wanted to correct us and just say that the

[00:05:26] whole exposure to fentanyl, like the idea that you can pick it up on your skin or breathe it in and be impacted is mostly a myth. So they just wanted to correct that and say that you don't have to worry about that. But it's interesting.

[00:05:45] I was on a rabbit hole after this and I was looking and there's definitely cases of little kids that have gotten fentanyl on them and had overdosed and died in different situations where they crawled on a floor where fentanyl had been stored.

[00:05:58] So I don't know what to believe, but I just figured I'd throw that out there just because I think it's funny whenever anybody fact checks you. Right, right. So it's mostly a myth, I guess. Mostly a myth until you overdose and you need Narcan.

[00:06:12] I feel like I still wouldn't want to get fentanyl on me though. It just seems like a bad thing. Yeah, yeah. I'm not interested. Either way. It's like the Hot Wings show. You know, if you rub your eyes, you're going to suffer. You only do that one time.

[00:06:28] Yeah, you only do that one time. Right. All right. Well, anyway, we will fact check. So welcome to episode 157 of the Sounds Like a Surgeon Rescue podcast. This week we are joined by our friend Nick Sidla.

[00:06:41] So Nick is a co-host of the PUDS podcast, the Pointless Up and Downs podcast, a podcast about hiking and everything you talk about while hiking. So I guess he's a competitor of ours, Stump. What are we doing here? I don't know. This is stupid.

[00:06:56] We should be keeping this guy a secret. But anyway, Nick's going to share some stories about his travels out west. We're going to discuss trail adoption and maintenance for those of you that are interested in getting into volunteering for trails.

[00:07:09] All this plus we have a history segment where we dive into a period of the White Mountains Trail Building back in like the 1910s, 1920s that focused on how a small group of friends worked to connect all the major trail systems of the White Mountains.

[00:07:24] And then Stump's going to give us an update on the Mount Washington Road Race. We've got Father's Day review that includes Stump dragging Mrs. Stump up the Holt Trail. We're going to see how that went. And then we go do some hikes on... Yeah. I don't know.

[00:07:40] I think you're going to be in trouble for that one. And then we've got recent hikes on Adams Madison. We got Well Sticky. We got The Watcher. We got earthquakes. We got Mount Everest. We got notable hikes. We got a bad dad joke. So I'm Mike.

[00:07:51] And I'm Stump. Let's get started. Hmm? Okay, Stump. Let's get started. So this is the part of the show where we go into... Our friend Andrew Barlow is going to give us a hiking buddy tip of the week. Do you know what the topic is this week?

[00:08:24] I just edited it and it's fun because you get to listen to Andy try to talk about some complicated website. So I'll leave it at that. Okay. This has been Peace from Hiking Buddies. We are a 501c3 nonprofit committed to reducing avoidable tragedies through education, impactful

[00:08:50] projects, and fostering a community of support. You can find out more at hikingbuddies.org. We wanted to say thank you to those who have supported our mission. And most importantly, say thanks to those who speak up, who ask questions, and who are

[00:09:03] willing to provide guidance and assistance on the trails when needed. You embody what it means to be a hiking buddy. And now for all my newer hikers out there, here's this episode's Hiking Buddies quick tip.

[00:09:22] Before embarking on a hike, be sure to check the water levels at dashboard.waterdata.usgs.gov. Practice safe water crossing techniques and assess each crossing as you go for safety. All right. So thank you, Andrew. Yes. Thank you, Hiking Buddies. We love it. Always good info. Excellent.

[00:10:00] All right. Now we have a new sponsor here, Stomp. Yeah. Let's hear from Christina Fulcic from White Mountain Endurance Coaching. Hi, Christina with White Mountain Endurance Coaching. And I wanted to let you know that not only do I coach endurance athletes, I also coach hikers and mountaineers.

[00:10:21] I have plenty of experience in the White Mountains and would love to teach you how to start out whether you're a beginner. If you're more advanced, give you some more skills to transition from hiking to trail running.

[00:10:32] And most of all, teach you how to move safely in the mountains. So whatever your goals are, whatever your experiences, reach out coaching.christinapulcic.com. I'd love to help you. And we're back. And we're back. So, so Nick, just just inside secret for you.

[00:10:52] Whenever we do like a, we're putting in an audio thing, me and Stomp always just go, that's the doodly doo thing. Okay. Yeah. And that way Stomp knows that that's where he needs to insert the audio. That's cool. I've grown fond of the noises.

[00:11:06] So I just leave them. That's what I was going to say. Cause it's like you guys leave them in anyway. So I think it's super funny that it's like, it's the checkpoint, but it's just entertaining. I'm used to hearing it now too. So that's cool. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:18] I don't know. I think, I think I did it originally, right Stomp? Oh yeah, totally. And Stomp was like, what the hell is that? And I didn't know. He doesn't ask about it. So anyway, but I wanted to start the show off.

[00:11:30] I talked, we talked about the, the 48 peaks hike and I gave a rundown of some of the people and I even said, I even gave Nick a shout out, I think last week, but I'd never thanked Lynn.

[00:11:40] So once again, we have to thank our captain Lynn for organizing the group hike and all that she does across like hiking buddies and 48 peaks and education and all that stuff.

[00:11:51] So I just felt bad after I was listening to it one more time and it was like, I didn't give Lynn a shout out. So shout out Lynn. I realized. So that's funny that you said that because I was editing our episode and I guess I could

[00:12:02] have cut it in later, but I realized I forgot to shout out Dave. Dave who shits in the woods, who is a lovely part of the group. So I'm sorry, Dave, I'm going to say it now.

[00:12:11] If you do happen to listen to that podcast, I think I forgot to mention you. So it was great hiking with you buddy and I'm sorry. Yes. And he holds grudges. He does hold grudges and he also does actually shit in the woods, which was great. All right.

[00:12:28] So it's summer solstice. So we're recording this on June 20th. So we just entered the summer about two hours ago. So this is the part of the year where we start losing more and more daylight slowly. That's right. This is the longest day of the year.

[00:12:45] Longest day of the year. It feels like it too. Cheers to that. Indeed. Excellent. All right. So just starting off now, Stomp pulled a story just because it's been so hot out. We've been thinking about like dehydrating.

[00:12:59] Stomp pulled a story about California hikers that were rescued after running out of water during a blistering heat wave. And video of the rescue shows the man using his body to shield his girlfriend from the blistering heat.

[00:13:18] So this is payrolled, so I can't read the whole article, but I did see the video briefly and it was pretty impressive. I mean, I think if this was Mrs. Mike and me, she would be shielding me. I would need her to shield me.

[00:13:33] That was a wild photo. Like I saw that clip and I'm like, holy crap. He's just like laying on top of her to like protecting her. But man, that looked pretty brutal. This took place in Painted Canyon, which is part of Joshua Tree in California.

[00:13:48] And they had triple digit heat wave. Yeah. So I was actually checking that really quick because I was curious because I hadn't heard of that. So it's northeast of Palm Springs a little bit, so it's a little bit outside Joshua Tree,

[00:13:59] but looked like a super popular hiking area. But regardless. So a little bit of fake news there. Yeah, either way. All right. So yeah, these people ran out of water and they had, let's see, the pair were hoisted into a helicopter and flown to a nearby landing zone.

[00:14:16] I know this sounds like the end of the show, but thought this would be interesting for you Nick since you had been out there recently. But yeah, severe dehydration. And of course you see that partner there of this woman doing his best to protect her from the heat.

[00:14:30] That's really, really noble and smart actually. It's wild to me that people were even out hiking in that frankly because I mean when we were in Joshua Tree, it was in like the 70s, 80s and dry and we were drinking a ton of water just in that.

[00:14:41] So I can't imagine what it's like out there hiking in like 110 degrees or even hotter than that. It must be just like being literally in a convection oven. Yeah. It looks like he found a little bit of like shade.

[00:14:55] There's like a little, I don't know if it's a cactus or something, whatever these Joshua Tree, but he found a little bit of shade. So she's lying down and then he's like on top of her.

[00:15:03] And I wonder like, I don't know about the body, maybe the body heat like might be annoying, but I guess it worked for them. But I'm guessing that the reason he probably did that is because it was his dumb idea to

[00:15:13] go out there and then she's basically like, you better figure something out and this is the best he could come up with. Hmm. What was the date? Was it Father's Day? I mean, I've noticed a trend.

[00:15:26] It was June 16th is the article I'm reading, but I don't know if that's the actual date. It was Father's Day weekend. Yeah. See, I have a theory and this ties into the next thing here.

[00:15:38] Father's Day when I was up on top of Cardigan, I noticed that there were a lot of potential Father Day hikes going on, if you know what I mean. Guys hiking up with a bunch of unhappy family members in tow. You think that's a thing?

[00:15:54] I think that's a thing, yeah. That's a thing. Well, I saw it live and in the flesh at Cardigan. I think I did that to my daughter last weekend. She was hurt by the end of the hike. I was like, you sure you want to go up Madison?

[00:16:07] And she's like, I don't know. And I was like, we're here, we're going. That's right. We have to get there. It's only another 300 or 400 feet. Oh, that's funny. We actually just got up to Wachusett and kind of did a local hike.

[00:16:20] I had Ryland in my pack, who's definitely getting heavier. I think she's 25 plus pounds now. So I was feeling that a little bit, but Ash enjoyed it. And we got out with Jake and Julie too. So it was pretty chill up there.

[00:16:29] Other than there was a church, it looked like some sort of church group up there. There must've been maybe like, I don't know, 70 people on the summit all split up in different groups. So that was a little interesting, but it was a good time. That's awesome.

[00:16:41] I've never been up there, but I see a lot of people. I think there's a lot of people that live in that area that it's a great option to just fly up there quickly and get a little bit of a mountain vibe. So it looked nice.

[00:16:54] The pictures look great. Yeah, for sure. It's got some White Mountain-esque trails here and there if you know where to go. I mean, we used to be a little bit closer when we lived in Ryland, but it's maybe like an hour and 20 from us.

[00:17:03] But yeah, it's kind of off the pike. So if you live in Boston or kind of central Mass, it's an easy location to get to. Yeah. Speaking of Father's Day hikes that people drag their kids out to, Stomp, I feel like

[00:17:16] you dragged Mrs. Stomp up the whole trail or did she love it? I'm curious what the reaction was. Oh, do you want to talk about that now? Yeah, she loved it. She loved it. She did. That's good.

[00:17:28] I mean, I can get into details, but we just talked about the hike recently. But it was one of those things, absolute misery and somewhat overwhelming. And then once you get to the top, it's like, hell yeah, I'm going to do it again. I cannot wait.

[00:17:41] Does she do, I can't remember, like I remember we did that Chakora hike where she was with us and she didn't seem to have any concerns about exposure or anything like that. But the whole trail is off-putting for sure in some sections.

[00:17:57] But did she manage it no problem? A little bit of a problem. A little bit out of the comfort zone. Partly to blame for, maybe her shoes, her boots were a little bit less grippy than what she probably would have liked.

[00:18:12] I had my hokas on again and it was so dry, I literally just zipped up those sketchy slab sections but she was a little more tentative. But beyond that, we made it up no problem. Hot as hell. Very few people. She absolutely adored coming down the Manning Trail.

[00:18:31] So you go across the Mowgli Cutoff and then down Manning. That's one I would bucket list to do really soon again. It's just such a beautiful trail. So you looped over to Fire Screw and then came back down that way? Yes. Absolutely beautiful.

[00:18:49] That's like the eastern side of Cardigan, right? It is. Gotcha. I've only been up that western side. I gotta get out there at some point. It's Alexandria, so it's the southern tip of Newfound Lake and that area is beautiful too.

[00:19:03] We went by something we should talk about soon is the Wellington Beach State Park there. Oh yeah, it's super beautiful. Super beautiful. I grew up staying up there a lot. It's such a great resource. So we're excited to check that out.

[00:19:16] She's been there before, I've not, but I guess I hear it's like a beach away from home. Has that beach vibe from the coasts. Yeah, she did great. Hats off to Mrs. Staunt for a really good hike. Very challenging but yeah, pulled it off. Good for her.

[00:19:31] I know. I wrote down a couple of notes here. I found what I think is a hidden gem that I wanted to give people a heads up on but just on Father's Day, like I had hiked the day before.

[00:19:43] We'll talk about Madison and Adams in a little while but we did like a walk around Freiburg, Maine. So there's like the Mountain Division Trail. It's like a real trail you can walk on.

[00:19:53] So we start there and then we go into Freiburg Center and then we walked over to the Freiburg Fairgrounds and on Sundays they have flea markets. So there's like probably like 50 or 100 tables set up and they sell all kinds of cool stuff.

[00:20:08] So I'm always on the lookout for old books related to the White Mountains. So I found a covered bridge book from 1948 and then I found an old brochure about hiking in the White Mountains that has a bunch of pictures and stuff on it.

[00:20:23] So I grabbed that for, I don't know, five, $10. That's awesome. Yeah, so it's good stuff. And I talked to the guy that I got some of the books from and I was like, do you have any old White Mountain guides? You have any old Appalachia?

[00:20:34] Do you have any other books? And he's like, he's going to look and see. But I think that if you're interested in trying to pick up some cool stuff, like these flea markets seem like they could be a good place to find stuff. That's a good call. Yeah.

[00:20:48] So, but that was fun. But the hidden gem that I wanted to give people a heads up on is in Freiburg Center, so this is basically like 302 where 302 meets like 113 and Route 5. You take a right down there, you head down to Brownfield.

[00:21:03] In Freiburg Center, there's a new coffee shop. Well, it's not new, but they've moved to a new location. It's called Fairgrounds Coffee and Smoothies and it's in Freiburg Center. And the place is really cool because it's in an old bank and they actually have the vault opened up.

[00:21:20] They have this like super thick bank vault that you can go into and sort of check out what the vault looked like. It looks like it's right out of the 1800s. And then the smoothies and the coffees and the pastries and the donuts, it's awesome.

[00:21:35] You can just chill there. So it's a nice, if you go into Evans Notch and you want to like stop off and grab a coffee on the way, or if you're going even farther up into like Grafton Notch and it's on the

[00:21:45] way, you can stop here, grab coffee, grab a donut, grab a pastry, whatever you want. It's called Fairgrounds Coffee in Freiburg. Cool. Yeah, sounds great. I like the bank vault thing. That's like that restaurant there in Portsmouth.

[00:22:00] There's a restaurant with a bank vault that you can go in. Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about. Yeah, you definitely get your hipster on in here too. They got Wi-Fi and you can sit there and be hipster for hours. Hipster it up. Hipster it up.

[00:22:12] It's really good. There's a place in New Bedford that was an old bank that's like that too as well. It reminded me of. That's really cool. Yeah, I'm glad that these old buildings are getting some use. For sure.

[00:22:23] All right, Stomp, so you, in addition to, we talked about Father's Day, but the day before you were the man spinning the tunes at Mount Washington. So do you want to give a recap of the road race and everything that happened? Yeah, what a super honor.

[00:22:40] That was great. So it was an early day. I started at like 2.30 in the morning and got to the main tent at the Glen House area, set up all my stuff and Andy Satchett was there. He's the voice behind the Mount Washington road race.

[00:22:55] He's done the race for like the last 19 years and I set up adjacent to him, right next to him. So he and I were working together and just coordinating and it was a really, it was a nice honor.

[00:23:06] It was a big rush for me and he was hilarious. It was like 6.30, 6.15 in the morning and I'm like, can I start? He's like, we have no neighbors. Of course you can. It was so great. He was a lot of fun.

[00:23:19] Now is he just an announcer or does he work at the auto road? He, you know, I honestly don't know, but it was his PA system. So he had five speakers that surround that big tent and you'll find this interesting, Nick, in particular.

[00:23:34] So his system powers the sound under the tent and then there's a second system over by the starting line. At 8.30, they ship him up in a van to the top where there's a third system and then

[00:23:47] the tent shuts down and they shift over to the starting line where the second system is. So it's really a fascinating setup. It was great. It worked out really well. You know, my folks were there, Mrs. Stump were there.

[00:24:00] We went over to the starting line and the same woman that sang the national anthem last year sang again. And it was just absolutely amazing. So it was a great time. Apparently everybody was happy. Maybe you'll see me again. I don't know. We'll see.

[00:24:15] But so the stats for this year, Joseph Gray came in again as a winner, first place for the men, eighth time winning the race and his time was 1.02, 21 seconds. For the females, Kayla Lamp or Lampay took first in the female division coming in at

[00:24:33] an hour and 15 minutes and nine seconds. Oh, holy moly. The top, it was super. Yo, yeah, these guys are cruising. That's insane. Nobody broke Jonathan Wyatt's record of 56 minutes. That still stands, which still blows my mind. And the wind chills at the top were near freezing.

[00:24:51] It was 50 mile an hour winds up top but clear. And some listeners stopped by and we got an update from Judy Hikes the Whites and Sue Marley. Marley finished in two hours and eight minutes and then Judy came in at 3.03 and they were

[00:25:08] just glad to get it over with. So actually a lot of listeners came by. It was pretty cool. Yeah, that's great to hear. That's cool. Yeah, I counted at least probably a dozen people that came by and it was just all complimentary. Just really nice.

[00:25:20] Yeah, that's amazing stuff. It's crazy to think back to how we met just over an old ancient message board just coordinating rides on Mount Washington as runners and now you were able to be a little bit of the entertainment for the runners. It's awesome. Oh, it's super cool.

[00:25:36] It's really a huge honor. So that's all I got. I actually saw one person trying to get up the race with crutches. She was the last person in the queue. What?

[00:25:46] Two crutches and she had a knee brace on and she was not putting weight into one of her legs. And we sort of followed her to the start of the ascent and she just kept on going. So I really would love to know what happened with that one.

[00:26:00] Yeah, that's interesting. That's like, she's tougher than me. I was like, I stubbed my toe and I was like, I'm done. Good for her. Holy crap. Oh yeah, amazing. Anyway. The wind was something else that day too because it was just like relentless. Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:16] So I mean, I could see when I was up on Adams and I could see the auto road a bit so I could see like people coming down a little bit. But the wind was just like, it just did not slow down at all for one second.

[00:26:32] Because I've never really been in that steady perpetual wind like that. And I can only imagine in Mount Washington it was like probably a little bit, maybe 10 miles an hour faster than when I was dealing with. I would think.

[00:26:44] And I hear you bumped into Nobby, but I guess we can talk about that a little later. Yeah, yeah. We'll get into that. I did have one question. So like the wind direction, was that affecting the runners at all going up there?

[00:26:55] Like would it have been in their face? Because I know it looks like the auto road like sort of weaves around like quite a bit, right? So you might be downwind or upwind. I think based upon the flattish section, the cow pasture, the winds were heading southeast,

[00:27:09] I think. So they were probably getting hit with the winds as they were heading up the last two miles from what I heard. Yeah, I think that's right. On Adams it was kind of coming up from like Lowe's Path and then down across to Star Lake.

[00:27:26] It was a little bit, it wasn't as up and down as it normally is. But I would assume then if you're in the Mount Washington Auto Road, once you get above tree line you might get hit a little bit in the beginning.

[00:27:37] But then I think as you go up towards the hairpin turn and then turn back around, you might be a little bit more protected. But then once you get across for mile like four and a half to maybe mile five to six,

[00:27:52] you're getting blasted from the Great Gulf. So I think that that would probably be a little bit difficult. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I run more locally at home and I'm like if it's super windy, like I'll get frustrated with that.

[00:28:06] Especially when you're running up Mount Washington and getting hit with 50 mile per hour winds at that wind chill. That's some determination right there to go up. Yeah, it was an improvement over last year.

[00:28:16] I mean, last year was more or less low visibility and it was like a freezing rain at the top and the whole thing. It was a shit show for sure. Didn't the road get like washed out a couple of weeks previously or something too? It did.

[00:28:31] In the rain? That's wild. They were able to fix it before the race. Gotcha. Crazy. Yeah, and then next up for you Stomp, so you have Race the Cog this Sunday. Yeah. Another wet weekend coming up. Yeah, yeah.

[00:28:47] And then the spectator seats on the cog are sold out and we'll have to see what the weather looks like. Yeah, we'll keep you posted. It'll be an interesting time. Yeah, and then in other events, Mike and Stomp, so me and Stomp are going to be participating

[00:29:00] in this year's Seek the Peak event, so we'll have a little bit more detail to follow on that. But it's going to have something to do with I think us working a table somewhere, right? Yeah, I think it's shaping up to be that Friday night, the pre-hike celebration.

[00:29:15] Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah. And we'll see. Yeah, I'm not sure what the details are, but we'll be there. Hang out and support everybody. All right, and then we wanted to just give a reminder, we had talked about this two episodes

[00:29:29] ago, but listener Eric had asked us to give a shout out to his fundraiser. So he is doing a fundraiser called Summits for Cindy and it's to raise funds for the CCF Foundation.

[00:29:49] And Stomp, again, I'm going to have to ask you to pronounce the name of this, but it's a horrible disease that his mom passed away from and he's trying to raise some money. Yeah, yeah. He's moving right along towards his goal of 5,280. He's at about 900 now.

[00:30:09] And the foundation is the Colangio Carcinoma Foundation. So we will keep you posted on that, but it's a super, super nice cause. Yep, yeah. So you can just Google Summits for Cindy and you'll get some info on it and we'll put it in our show notes as well.

[00:30:29] All right, Stomp. Actually, Nick, I'll ask you this. Do you get along with the neighbors? Yes, I do now, but I will say we live in Rehoboth now and kind of have some space, but we lived in a condo in North Providence for like three or four years.

[00:30:41] And one of them actually, I think, wrote our HOA about us having a cat, which kind of led to the whole path of us looking for a house rather than living in a condo. So I have had issues with neighbors in the past, for sure. Interesting.

[00:30:55] The reason I ask is that, and I generally get along with all my neighbors really well with the exception of the a-holes that live next to me that think that they can blast music at 11 o'clock at night.

[00:31:04] And for some reason they felt like it was rude of me to tell them to go shove their speaker up there. But anyway, I won't get into it, but I generally get along with my neighbors other than those idiots.

[00:31:16] But the reason I ask this is that there is a couple in Maine that is basically the wife that's getting charged, I think. But there's a couple in Camden, Maine, which is up in the mid-coast region of Maine, kind of close to Bar Harbor and that area.

[00:31:31] And they're a very wealthy couple from Missouri. They have a $3.5 million home that is next to another very expensive home that is owned by the widow of the former president of L.L. Bean. And apparently this couple from Missouri had a problem stomp. Okay.

[00:31:52] What do you think the problem may be if you're a rich couple living on the ocean of Maine? Neighbors. Well, not so much neighbors, but like you need to see a hundred, you have to have a completely clear view of the ocean, correct? Yes, by default.

[00:32:09] Yes, but unfortunately there's these things called trees that sometimes get in the way. Oh yes, that's right. Stupid trees. So these people decided that instead of, you know, and they didn't own these trees, the neighbors owned these trees.

[00:32:22] So what they decided to do was surreptitiously, which means sneaky stomp. I know you don't like big words, you can pronounce them, but you don't understand them. Break out my dictionary real quick. Yes.

[00:32:37] They poisoned these two big oak trees along with like a bunch of other maples and all this stuff. They had this poison that was apparently used in another case where an Alabama football fan poisoned an oak tree on the Auburn University campus in revenge because SEC football is

[00:32:58] crazy. But anyway, she used the same poison. Now this poison does not break down in the soil. It basically stays in the soil for a long, long time. The only way for you to get rid of it is to completely rip the soil out and haul it out

[00:33:16] of there. So the trees start looking bad, they start dying, and L.L. Bean lady is like, hey, what do you think's going on here? So the nice Missouri lady says to her, oh geez, we don't know. The trees look like they're bad.

[00:33:29] But I'll tell you what, if you want, I really would like my view to be better, but I'll go halvesies with you and cut these trees down if you're worried about them dying. So the L.L. Bean lady, she's no idiot.

[00:33:42] So she immediately is like, something's going on here. So she gets the soil tested. They find out that it's poison and the Missouri lady who had poisoned the trees fessed up to it and had to pay a $4,500 fine. Meanwhile she's wrecked multiple trees, beautiful old oak trees.

[00:34:03] And then she had to pay like $180,000 environmental fine to the town of Camden. And then she paid like 1.5 million in a settlement to the L.L. Bean lady. But now that that's all settled, what's happened is that the poison that she put by the trees

[00:34:23] is now leaking into local parks and it is also leaking into the beach itself and killing all this stuff. So now it was kind of quiet, but now all of a sudden it started to get in the news and

[00:34:39] all the locals are like, they got the pitchforks out and they want this lady to go to jail. That's super irresponsible doing that near the coast. I mean, my brain was going to that too.

[00:34:48] It's like to do that right near the coast like that with, that just seems like a really bad idea. Yeah. Yeah. So you've got like vacation home people that don't live in the area. There's already tension there.

[00:35:01] You've got like wealthy people that think they can just do what they want. You've got a wealthy person that thinks she can just pay her way out of the situation. So it's messy. Incredible.

[00:35:13] She should have just offered to buy the L.L. Bean lady's house and knock it down. Unbelievable. It sounds like a little bit of the old, what was that syndrome we used to say? To say more money, more problems? No, no, no.

[00:35:30] That actor that caught walking, trumping over the fragile fauna at Yellowstone. Remember that? Oh yeah, yeah. Pierce Brosnan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know who I am? Yeah, you know who I am. Special. Anyway, but I thought that that was an interesting story.

[00:35:50] Well, we'll keep an eye on it. Wow. At least they weren't stumped. You know? Did they get to the root of the problem? They're not stumped. All right, well, speaking of poison and getting sick, Stomp, I cut the story.

[00:36:09] Dozens of hikers got very sick after visiting this famous waterfall in the Grand Canyon. So this is Havasupa Reservation. So this is owned by Native Americans. They need a reservation to get in here.

[00:36:26] And apparently the Associated Press put out a report saying that a number of people were severely ill. They cite a 32-year-old veterinarian from Kingman, Arizona, said she was vomiting severely Monday evening and had a fever that endured for days after camping at Havasupa Reservation.

[00:36:48] She hiked out to a car in a weakened state through stifling hot weather and was thankful a mule transported her pack several miles up a winding trail. She said she drank from a spring that's tested and listed as potable, as well as other sources

[00:37:05] using a gravity-fed filter that screens out bacteria and protozoa, but not viruses. So the tribe says that they tested the water last week from a local spring that visitors rely on and found that it was safe for consumption. So it's a mystery.

[00:37:24] Let me send Dave a text to see if he was out there recently. Yeah. I hope not. Dave Schitt's in the water? Sounds like what, E. coli, norovirus? Something like that, yeah. Something either an animal or a human got something in there.

[00:37:43] Oh man, that's a lot of people. That's unfortunate. Thanks so much for your filter protecting you though, right? That's true. Yep. All right, moving on. Stop. We had an earthquake in Grafton County. Yeah, I guess so. A 2.6 hit us just the other day.

[00:38:00] It was a Tuesday afternoon and people were sending me texts. Did you feel that? Did you feel that? Did you feel that? Hey, did you feel that? Hey, did you feel that? Nope, I didn't feel a damn thing.

[00:38:10] But apparently it hit over by the Haverhill side, so the western part of the state. So yeah, that's a bigger one than usual. I think we've been getting ones and twos, like low twos over the last several months, but that's a little bit bigger, a little more notable.

[00:38:30] Yeah, the magic number for earthquake magnitude is like a 6.0. That's when stuff starts getting real. Oh yeah? Like structural damage, things like that? Yeah, yeah. Although I think in New England maybe it'd be a little bit lower just because I don't

[00:38:44] think that our buildings are really built to withstand anything significant. But yeah, 5.5 to 6.0 is like slight damage to buildings and other structures, but anything above six starts getting ugly. So I mean, this is an indicator that there is no threshold or ceiling to this.

[00:39:01] I mean, it's possible that we could get a big one, I would think. We should get somebody on that knows what they're talking about with this, because it is an interesting topic. Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:10] I don't want to get fact checked again, but I do know that like I did read somewhere that like every 500 years or something we do get a big one. Huh. Yeah, well, we had that one.

[00:39:20] They had that decent one in New York, New Jersey, like earlier in the spring, I think, right? That felt pretty, I think we felt it up here a little bit. I didn't notice anything in our house, but I was getting the same thing where people

[00:39:30] were like, did you feel that? Did you feel that? I'm like, not really. Maybe I'm just really not paying attention. The only one I ever felt was when I was working in Cambridge, like in the 2010s there was an earthquake. It's disconcerting.

[00:39:45] I feel like especially if you were in a skyscraper or something, I think I'd be pretty freaked out. I could feel the building shaking. That was a little scary. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Please just stick to blizzards around here. We don't need earthquakes. Exactly.

[00:39:57] All right, so Stomp found a cool video of a guy named Ryan Mitchell. How did you find this video, Stomp? It's actually a really well done video of a young man who was hiking Mount Everest on summit day.

[00:40:12] He basically wakes up on camp four and then he ascends the salt summit and then over the Hillary step to the summit and then back down again and then back down to base camp. It's really well done. He captures the whole thing.

[00:40:28] It's so immersive because it's captured with a GoPro on his helmet and then he's filming other stuff along the way. It really goes into deep detail about the carabiner function and how the Sherpas are and how you manage traffic jams.

[00:40:42] It goes into a lot of stuff that you don't typically see. I really enjoyed it. I think he's the young man that we had talked about a couple episodes ago that was planning on doing this. Could be one of them. Oh, he's the Minecraft kid?

[00:40:53] A 19 year old perhaps? Maybe not? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's from Hudson or something. I think so. He raised money on Minecraft on YouTube or something. Okay. Yeah, but it's definitely worth a watch. It's an amazing video.

[00:41:06] He just posted the full four hour long documentary video of his entire journey, but the last summit day one is fantastic. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. His Sherpa is basically not messing around to get him down. He's like, all right, we're hauling ass.

[00:41:24] The Sherpa was taking care of his carabiner and clipping and unclipping him. The kid said that the hike down was a lot harder than the hike up. I thought that was interesting that that guy was cruising so fast because clearly the kid

[00:41:36] was tired and you would think that that would increase his risk for an injury or something, but it was a little unusual to me. Yeah, yeah. And definitely after watching that I was like, I could totally do this. That's really funny.

[00:41:52] I watched it and said, nope, only because of those sheer drops on either side of say the Hillary step and all that. My God, these guys are so exposed up there. It's incredible. Yeah.

[00:42:04] What happens if you're on those, they have these snow shelves and I'm assuming at some point those things could just sheer right off. Yes, up the cornices. I guess you're on a rope so you're okay, but it just looks freaky and then you're going thousands of feet down.

[00:42:19] That whole mix of the bare exposed rock and then ice too with full crampons on seems also terrifying for footing because it seems like they go interchangeably between that through a lot of different parts of the trail. Yeah, yeah.

[00:42:34] And he talked about that, about how he wasn't getting the bite because he was getting on exposed rock. Oh my God. Right, right. It's interesting. And then there's one scene where somebody loses a down mitten. It's rolling down the slope. What do you do?

[00:42:51] I'm assuming they have redundant gear, you would hope, but then I was thinking like, What if you drop one of your crampons, but then again, they usually have leashes, right? So much to think about. Yeah, but it's a cool video.

[00:43:05] We'll link it in the show notes and on our social so people can check it out and then start moving on. We're going to Yellowstone National Park. A photographer spotted a rare and unusual white bison calf.

[00:43:20] The mother looks like a regular shaggy old brown bison, but the baby has white fur. They're saying it's a rare occasion and they called it a blessing and a warning. That's right. So what was the thing that Abraham sacrificed? A heifer? Yeah, yeah.

[00:43:42] Like a white heifer or something like that. I think it's a red heifer and there's been a lot of talk about that lately too. But yeah, that's a whole other topic. And because it was Yellowstone and because it was a bison, a tourist immediately went

[00:43:54] up and tried to pet it right in front of the mother and got mauled. Have you guys seen some of the, I think it's the National Park Service does, it's just all funny memes about people getting attacked by animals and stuff.

[00:44:10] Like some of them are pretty hysterical that they post on Instagram and whatnot. Yeah, we follow the Torons of Yellowstone. Instead of morons, I call them tourist on. But yeah, it's fun. So there you go. It's a blessing and a curse. All right.

[00:44:26] So a blessing and a curse. We'll stop. That was a long set of news stories here. So you have a gear review that you want to do. So you want to do the... Now it's time for a Slasher Gear Review. Are you ready for Slashers Gear Review?

[00:44:50] That's right. This is a quick one. So this is Sucker Punch. Can you guys see that? I can't see what I'm showing you, but it's a small little bottle. You guys may have heard of this or not, but this came in really handy when we hiked the

[00:45:06] Holt Trail. Mrs. Stomp was feeling a little tired at one point. I just saw this randomly and it's two fluid ounces and it's hydration pickle juice with electrolytes. How hilarious is that? It's just basically pickle juice. So it's about four calories.

[00:45:23] It has magnesium 9%, potassium 4% daily supply and calcium 1%. It's basically sea salt and vinegar. Ew. Can I... They will do anything to make a buck. I remember a couple of years ago, I bushwhacked up to Scar with a big crew and some people

[00:45:45] were drinking pickle juice at the time. Like it was going out of style, but now they're just branding it and selling it in these little bottles. Isn't that hilarious? A pack of these things, like 12 of them is like 30 bucks.

[00:45:58] So we should just save our pickle juice from all those pickle jars I go through and I can just monetize it at some point? Absolutely. Or just drink it and not have to buy these things. Does it taste like pickles? It does. It tastes like pickle juice.

[00:46:12] That was a problem for Mrs. Stomp. And I said, just pretend you're pregnant. I don't like pickles. That went over really well, halfway up the whole trail. Do you know that... I don't like pickles, but I found out that I do like Chick-fil-A chicken sandwiches and

[00:46:33] I found out that one of the things they do to make the chicken sandwiches, they marinate it in pickle juice. So I guess I must. I usually say no pickles. Yeah. I could see that because it's vinegar and stuff. So yeah, I could see that being a thing.

[00:46:53] All right, well Stomp, I'll take your word for it because I'm not drinking that. All right, Stomp, I have a question for you. Why should you never tell a taco a secret? Why? I give up. Because a taco tends to spill the beans.

[00:47:15] This was the part of the show where we did the jab joke. Oh, you caught me by surprise on that. You have to remember to put the drop in ahead of time though. Walked right into that. Yes. I had no warning whatsoever. Yes. I had no warning whatsoever.

[00:47:32] Oh my gosh. All right, Stomp, so we have our first sponsor, our second sponsor here, CS Coffee. Yeah, let's go. So the podcast is supported by CS Instant Coffee, makers of eco-friendly instant coffee. It's perfect for anyone who loves the outdoors as much as we do.

[00:47:48] Great for backpacking, day hiking, camping and even at home. Learn more and get in touch at www.csinstant.coffee or email them at info at csinstant.coffee. I tried a couple the other day and super easy to make. It was really delicious.

[00:48:06] It's actually a very tasty, strong coffee, which is phenomenal. So nice work, CS. Let's see, we have a bunch of stickers you can get at Ski Fanatics or at Spinner's in Andover off Dascom Road in Massachusetts, Route 93.

[00:48:23] If anybody's interested in advertising with Slasher, just get ahold of us through one of the socials and we'll reach out to you. And the swag is flying off the shelves at our virtual bonfire shop. I saw some people wearing those things at the Mount Washington Road Race too.

[00:48:38] That was very cool. And this week we have a coffee donation actually from Chris Arson Photography, who donated five coffees literally just 20 minutes ago and he just wrote, love you guys. So thank you very much, Chris. That's super cool. We love you too. Thanks for listening.

[00:48:57] I don't know if I'm ready to commit to loving you yet, Chris, but I do appreciate the coffee. I have a strong affection towards you, but I'm not ready to take our relationship to the next level yet. I'm not ready to make the jump quite yet.

[00:49:11] Maybe if you buy another five coffees, I might change my mind. Stomp's easy. Stomp's an easy date. I was going to say, is there like a coffee limit that could get your affection for that? 10 coffees, 15, 20, 25? Yeah, it's probably 10. Just one red eye will do it.

[00:49:29] Give me a red eye and I'll be all set to go. So or get me a four pack of kombucha. Ah, yes. That will win my heart, especially if it's Fieldstone. I was just about to talk about them, Mike. This is wild.

[00:49:46] Jeez, we must be reading each other's mind or reading each other's script. So Fieldstone Kombucha is New England's premier craft kombucha company, Mike. If you're in the heart of New England, you need to drink a New England style kombucha. Softer, less acidic and truly enjoyable.

[00:50:02] Our kombucha is naturally effervescent and boasts full bodied flavor. Fieldstone crafts the best seasonal flavors. When we tell you there's strawberries in our garden blush flavor, it's like biting into a sun-ripened strawberry. Woman owned and operated, we brew in Rhode Island using locally sourced ingredients.

[00:50:21] Fieldstone Kombucha is the perfect replenishing drink after a day on the slopes or a trek in the woods. It's chock full of probiotics and healthy acids to keep you in top form. Find us at Sunflower Natural Foods in Laconia, Lataz Cafe in Waterville Valley, the Concord

[00:50:36] Food Co-op and Granite State Food Co-op in Concord and many more. Check out the website for the full list of New Hampshire and New England wide locations and use the code SLASR on the website for 10% off an online order which can be shipped straight to your door.

[00:50:54] So that's FieldstoneKombuchaco.com Awesome. Hey, hold my beer. It's time to find out what Mike and Stomp are drinking on this week's Beer Talk. Very good Stomp. So I think this is the part of the show where we talk about what beer we are drinking. Yeah.

[00:51:27] So, you had some kind of wine glass or something Stomp? Yeah, sort of taking a breather from the beer. It's just a nice cold glass of Pinot Grigio. I'm going back to my early Slasher roots. You're an aristocrat over there. Good for you. Look at that.

[00:51:44] The glass is sweaty. It's like sweating. Yummy. Yeah, yeah. Do you drink that ice cold or is it like room temperature? I don't know what you do with wine. It's ice cold and Pinot Grigio is generally really tart. So it's just refreshing in this hot weather.

[00:51:58] Look at you Stomp. Very nice. Yeah, yeah. Aristocrat roots. So cosmopolitan. Nick, you got anything good tonight? Yeah, I'm a heathen so I just have a beer here. But I've got a Tweed Irish Red Ale by Shovel Town Brewing Co. So they're pretty local.

[00:52:15] They're down in Northeastern Mass. So probably like 20-30 minutes from us. So you can get a lot of their stuff around here. Excellent. And then I am drinking a Fiddlehead IPA. That's good. Does it taste like fiddleheads? Yeah, it tastes not bad.

[00:52:30] I think my wife, I think she goes to Trader Joe's all the time and they do have some like decent beer. But I tell them, don't go to Trader Joe's. You got to go to some hole in the wall place and get some obscure beer for me.

[00:52:44] Yeah, it's tricky. After 150 episodes, that's a tough task. Yeah, it's true. We got to look under some rocks here. But now as part of the show, we talk about recent hike stops. So I will start. I went to Mount Adams and Mount Madison.

[00:53:04] So my daughter Caroline is working on a 4,000-footer list. And we took a look and I was like, well, the weather looks good. I didn't factor in the wind. I figured like, okay, it's going to be 50-mile-an-hour winds on Washington.

[00:53:15] That means it'll be like 10-mile-an-hour winds on Adams and Madison. Unfortunately, it didn't turn out that way. But it was a fun day. So we got a little bit of a late start because I wanted to let the clouds clear a little bit,

[00:53:28] which worked out well because it was cloudy when we got above tree line and then it cleared. So the timing worked out. But the problem was when we got there, we had to road walk about a mile from where we parked to get to Appalachia.

[00:53:41] So that wasn't fun. Just because it was that crowded? Yeah, it was crowded. Holy crap. Very crowded. So we walked a bit and then we met Steve from the Cape. He was hiking with us and then I had been exchanging messages with Nobby Hikes.

[00:53:59] I wasn't sure if he was going to go in from the Great Gulf or what his plans were, but he decided to do the Great Gully and then down Castle Trail because he's working on his Terrifying 25.

[00:54:08] So he was in the parking lot when I pulled in and I didn't see any parking spots. So I said, Steve's right there. Wait for us and we'll figure out what to do. Caroline, myself, Steve and Nobby all headed out onto Airline and then Nobby broke away

[00:54:27] from us. He was thinking about coming up Airline and then going down Chemin des Dames. I know, I know, I know. It's going to be long. Oui, oui. But he changed his mind.

[00:54:37] Hikes is kind of like, dude, you don't want to go all the way up and then go back down. You have a long day ahead of you. So he took Short Line and then broke away. We hiked with him for the first mile.

[00:54:47] I was wondering what he did because his video was interesting. He could have parked a little closer to get into King Ravine a lot easier. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean, right? Oh yeah, exactly. It was for the listeners.

[00:55:00] So if you need to get into King Ravine and you want to do a loop, matter of fact, there was a guy on the 4,000 footer page today that asked this exact same question.

[00:55:07] If you want to do like a Jefferson, Adams or Madison whatever, there's a bunch of different options for you, but in my opinion, one of the good options to consider is to park at the Castle Trailhead and just do that short road walk to Lowe's Path.

[00:55:25] And then from Lowe's Path, you can hit Adams, Madison and then back over to Jefferson and down the Castle Trail in any combination. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. And I always get Castle Trail confused with the one on the other side of Madison. What is that, Parapet?

[00:55:43] Castle Trail is off of what, Jefferson? Castle Trail is off of the Castle Ravine. Exactly. It's like the left side of the Castle Ravine and then on the other side is Israel Ridge and then Castle Ravine kind of goes up the middle I think. Okay.

[00:56:00] That's an area that doesn't get as much traffic in general I don't think. Oh yeah, Israel Ridge is a good way to go up Adams. You won't see a soul. Is it pretty mellow compared to Randolph Path?

[00:56:12] I've been down Randolph Path a few times, which I really did not enjoy going down Randolph Path, but I haven't really checked out that southeastern, well I guess the northwestern side. It should be Caps Ridge. Castle Trail does. It does? Oh yeah. Castle Trail absolutely does.

[00:56:31] But no, Israel Ridge, Lowe's Path, all those are like, they're steep, they're nice trails, but there's some views off of Israel Ridge I think, but overall I would go down Castle Trail. That's the best way to go. Gotcha. That's super cool. Yeah.

[00:56:50] But anyway, so Steve, Caroline and I, we went straight from Airline up to the summit of Adams, and then because we were getting whacked by wind, we had to put on hats, gloves. I was wearing shorts, but it was okay, but I had my shell on.

[00:57:07] We were like, okay, well maybe if we go down Star Lake, we'll be out of the wind a little bit, we'll be protected, but it wasn't. For whatever reason, it was just coming right over Adams and then dipping down, so we really

[00:57:20] didn't get out of the wind on Star Lake until we got down to the lower section pass where I always reference it as the winter, but essentially like the snow fields in the winter, we went past that section and then got, so you're pretty low.

[00:57:34] Then we went by Star Lake, went to the hut, and just went up Madison and then came back down Valley Way. So it was a nice day, there was a good amount of people out there.

[00:57:45] We saw Ryan who we had met at Gilhead Hut last week, he was doing a Yo-Yo presidential, so an out and back. I saw him on Adams and said hi and shout out to him, he was able to complete it.

[00:57:59] But overall, it was just a windy day, but beautiful views. One cool thing, we found that little diving board that's off of the trail on Airline. Do you know what I'm talking about, Nick? No, diving board? Oh, the stone formation? Yeah, it's like a stone formation.

[00:58:13] I call it a diving board, it's like you basically can go out and then you stand there and you can get a good photo of you basically immersed in King Ravine. So it's a pretty cool shot. Is that past the Airline Cut-Off Junction?

[00:58:27] I literally just went up there too, trying to picture where, or is it lower, more near the knife edge sort of section? Yeah, it's right as you break above Treeline and it's maybe a quarter mile up from there. That's such a cool spot. But yeah, anyway, that's it.

[00:58:46] Airline did number 30 and 31 for her 4,000 footers, so she's on her way. Stomp, you got out to the Holt Trail, which we talked about a little bit, and then anywhere else? No, that's all, just trying to hit the old Welsh Dickey Loop when I can just for fitness.

[00:59:01] But yeah, Holt was the big one last week. Excellent. That's also my end. And then Nick, you got out the last couple of days it looks like. Yeah. So talk about where you went.

[00:59:16] Yeah, literally I've been saying I've been taking a lot of side quests to my trail maintenance this season, so I hadn't made it up for the spring yet. But I have that .2 mile section of Airline Cut-Off, my itty bitty section of trail that

[00:59:26] you got to hike all the way up to get to. Went up there and originally I was thinking of doing it on Wednesday because I had the day off of Juneteenth fortunately.

[00:59:35] But when I looked at the heat, I was kind of talking to a hiking buddy and he's like, oh, why don't you just try to go up and do it at night because you got so much daylight. And I was like, that sounds like a good idea.

[00:59:45] So I was kind of done with work around four. So started up from Valley Way around then, made pretty good time and hustled it up. Probably spent about two or three hours on maintenance and then got up to Adams before for sunset. So that was pretty sweet.

[00:59:57] I hadn't been up there for a sunset before, so that was pretty sick. It just was like it was hot as hell up there. I think I drank like six or seven liters of water while I was out there for about seven hours.

[01:00:08] So it was toasty, roasty toasty. So that was super fun. Came down in the dark. I don't think I had to use a headlamp. I think it was like 915 maybe finally dropping down Valley Way. I finally needed my headlamp.

[01:00:21] And another thing that was interesting, I thought I was seeing things at first going down, making my way back down Valley Way. But there was like hundreds of toads like everywhere just going down and they just kept getting more up.

[01:00:35] There was more of them as I got lower, like good size, like four or five inch across toads. So that was kind of interesting. I think it was a totally awesome journey hiking down, but got down maybe like 1045, 11 o'clock

[01:00:50] and it was still like, I think it was like 93 when I started and it was like, I don't know, 73, 74 degrees when I got back to the trailhead at night. So it's like you just couldn't dodge the heat.

[01:00:59] It wasn't bad above treeline, but it was just really nasty and sticky. And on Wednesday before I left, I was kind of looking at the weather and wanted to get out early, but this kind of came up when we were actually at the 48 Peaks event.

[01:01:13] I kind of heard Eric talking that he had just been up to the watcher. So I actually hit him up and was kind of like, hey, are you free to do that?

[01:01:19] And I guess he kind of dirty kind of was doing something else or had other hiking plans, but he wasn't nice enough to give me literally like an audio message through like Facebook message of directions of how to find the watcher.

[01:01:30] So that was the thing I will say I did not expect it to be as gnarly as it was. Got up there, but left slide or the right slide at the top.

[01:01:40] I went up the left slide, but there was no way I was going back down that left side. I kind of poked around. So you went up the left side and you got that last section you climbed up? Yeah, that was very, very sketchy though.

[01:01:55] I would say I probably wouldn't do it again. Like I'd be flat out. Like, I don't know if I wouldn't be in a rush to do it again, but it was it didn't look that bad until that final push up to it.

[01:02:05] And I was like, oh my God, this is like pretty. It's very deceiving. Crazy, crazy. Yeah. And that so for listeners, just my advice on so that left side slide has gotten worn down over the years really bad.

[01:02:16] Go up the right side because the right side slide basically brings you up a much more reasonable approach and then you just bushwhack over much safer. Yeah, I poked up that right side a little bit.

[01:02:26] The thing that I mean, it seemed like they're both really loose, but the right side was almost sketch me out more and maybe it was just because I'd started going up it and like good size.

[01:02:35] Like I think you guys were talking about an episode a while back, but like literally like a foot wide rock like rolled down like right behind me as I was going up. I was like, this feels worse. So I'm like, I'll try this side.

[01:02:45] But yeah, it was, um, yeah, got the adrenaline going to say the least. Um, and like I said, I don't think I'd go up that left side again, even if someone was like, oh, do you want to try? I'm like, nah, I'm good. I did that.

[01:02:56] Did that once that was, that was enough. Um, it was funny talking to Eric too, cause he's like, you can go down either side. And I'm like, I wouldn't go down that side. I don't think that's something, that's something I wanted, wanted to talk about actually on

[01:03:08] the, um, on the whole trail with Mrs. Stomp. I made note that she did a ton of commitment growls as we were going up. I all of a sudden here, like you, you just like breathe out and commit and go, were you doing commitment growls?

[01:03:23] I mean, that's like the type of the left side of the watchers, a commitment growl type of place. Like you got to commit baby. I'm sure it probably was. I don't think I definitely wasn't conscious of the noises I was making as I was going up there.

[01:03:36] I actually had, um, I had a couple of headphones inside, had some smashing pumpkins going and was like, all right, I'm gonna kind of go up this. And I mean, I wasn't trying to, and again, like I was definitely trying to be very conscious

[01:03:48] of being up there by yourself to not be like reckless and do stupid things. But I, I didn't feel that bad there. I interestingly enough, so on that, yeah, yeah, probably. I'm like, I'll, I'll see if, um, I'm sure Ash will want to go up there eventually and

[01:04:01] I'll see how she feels about that. I'm sure she'll have probably a differing opinion. I did get turned around a little bit in a lower area, like where you break out into that Boulder fields.

[01:04:11] I kind of went up to the left and got turned around like at sort of a, sort of a, just a straight up ledge. And I'm like this, I wasn't sure it looks like I'm assuming climbers probably can get up there that way to the Eagle it.

[01:04:24] But I was like going there and I, I was saying my stupid bell was going off in my head. I'm like, this is just a bad idea. So I actually was ready to kind of pull the plug right there and backtracked and sort

[01:04:32] of found my way up where it kind of breaks off more to the right. And then finally I saw that like place where you can kind of see the profile of it. I'm like, okay, like we're going to go.

[01:04:40] And even there I kind of was still like, am I going to go for this or like what are, what are we doing? And there was actually someone coming down when I was up there and he kind of pointed it out to me and stuff.

[01:04:49] And he actually came down the left side, which I was like, maybe that made it look better to me too in the moment, but it did not look better when I was standing up there. But yeah, I mean for me, I think, yeah, you on the right side.

[01:05:00] So what we're talking about listeners just so your awareness is you get like right below the watcher and you basically have to take a, either you go up a left slide or you go up a right side.

[01:05:09] The left slide is like this beer sort of worn down slide. The right side is a scree field with a bunch of loose rocks and Nick's right. And when you get up those loose rocks, it's kind of off putting and you're like, you know,

[01:05:23] I'd rather have solid ground. But honestly, like that last section where you have to climb up to basically top out is difficult on the left slide. So it's a lot easier once you get past that scree field, you deal with a few rocks

[01:05:36] letting loose and you just make your way up and you can kind of get to the side on the right hand side to get out of those rocks pretty quickly. But it's just, it's a choice you got to make. It is.

[01:05:48] And just to refresh people's memories, I think it was probably three summers ago, a hiker, a female hiker did the left slide, made it up to within say five feet of the top of that

[01:05:59] and froze on, she was just tippy toe frozen on a little teeny piece of ledge and had a call for rescue and she was sitting there for hours waiting for rescue to show up. So it's not a joke. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:06:14] I mean, again, I haven't done Huntington Ravine or something. I haven't really made my way through the T25. So I'd be curious how that stacks up. But that was like that right there was like, I have no desire to do much more than that.

[01:06:25] Frankly, frankly, that was enough. Yeah, that pushes the envelopes. So that's the borderline in my mind where it's like that. That's the pinnacle of where you would probably have to rope off if it got any harder. Yeah. And that's like, that's the threshold for me.

[01:06:40] Like, nope, that's it. As far as you can push it. Yeah, I'm in that same boat. I mean, I know some folks who rock climb and stuff too. And I'm like, I have no desire to do anything where I got to rope up to get up something.

[01:06:51] I'm good. I'm good being on like three points of contact kind of deal. And like I said, that ledge I found lower down where I sort of got turned around was like I was going up and you just had that feeling.

[01:07:01] I'm like, I don't like your shoes aren't gripping. The other thing too is that I underestimated too a little bit just being super sweaty too like sucks when you're trying to get a grip on some of that stuff.

[01:07:09] I mean, even with how rough the rocks are, but I'm kind of like sliced one of my fingers open and cause it's just everything's so sweaty. So that, that kind of stunk, but it was, it was really, really rewarding to get up there and see it though.

[01:07:21] It was, I'm like, I felt like kind of one of those things, like as a New Hampshire hiker, you got to try to check it out like once and see it and went up to the top and viewed it and everything.

[01:07:30] And yeah, I went down the right side and that was definitely, I'd say easier. It's almost like it reminded me of kind of, you have that choice on the Osceola's with the chimney where it's like the chimney is kind of like a thing, but then the bypass

[01:07:41] is also still in its own right, a difficult sort of thing to go down or up. It's not like a cakewalk at all. So definitely was very slow going down.

[01:07:51] I was trying to really take my time and again, drank a ton of water, but it was, it was memorable. It was memorable for sure. I'm hoping that Asher won't kill me if she goes up there and is with me and is like,

[01:08:01] Oh, like you did this by yourself. And I was like, yeah, it probably wasn't. If it ever works out, let me know. Because what's really nice is you can head over to Eagle Cliff following a herd path and then bushwhack down a climbers trail back to Greenleaf.

[01:08:14] And it's actually a really nice trip. Oh, it's great trail. Yeah, it's phenomenal. Cool. I was poking around a little bit. Yeah, definitely. Looked like a lot of herd paths up there too.

[01:08:23] Like I just didn't have the time to explore, but and also again, just not familiar with the area. Yeah, there's a lot going on up there. So, but yeah, we'll, and it's a perfect hike if you just have a couple of hours and you

[01:08:34] want to get up and really experience some adrenaline. It's, it fits, it checks all the boxes. So it's good times. That's right. So, but speaking of good times, Stomp, 48 Peaks is also good times. That's right. So use your passion for hiking to help end Alzheimer's.

[01:08:49] In one collective effort, 400 plus hikers will climb New Hampshire's 4,000 footers or create their own hiking challenge to advance the care, support and research efforts of the Alzheimer's Association. Hike anytime this summer and help turn the White Mountains purple to end Alzheimer's.

[01:09:05] No fundraising minimums required, but you can unlock fun prizes as you fundraise. So visit alt.org right slash 48 peaks to learn more. All right. It looks like we're at the notables. It's your favorite part of the show, Stomp.

[01:09:23] You get to give you shout outs to all your friends, all your Instagram friends. Hey, should we let Nick pick this one? No, that's what I do. Okay. Let's see how it is. Don't get too comfortable, Nick. And again, I have to give shout outs to the listeners.

[01:09:41] They're like digging deep here and getting out and doing some really fresh, unique things. So tag us on your post and let's get started. So Tim Trotter 58 did Tom Dick and Harry Loop with views of Mount Hood. So that's out west.

[01:09:59] Caden sometimes wanders out and back sunrise hike on Bond Cliff. That's an adventure. Liz Faye hiked Green Mountain from Hubbard Brook Experimental Forest. That's an area that we haven't talked about, Mike. That's something we should put in the script in the future.

[01:10:18] And can I just say Liz is like the ever, what is it? The ever ready bunny? Like she just keeps going and go every week. She's banging out some unique place that we've never heard of. Absolutely. Yeah, no doubt. Prolific is the word. That's awesome. Yep.

[01:10:33] Paul G Jr. hiked Moose to Mount Cube via the Green Tunnel, 23 miles. Pretty epic. And then Gingerbeard Keene hiked up Dry River, backpacked overnight, went up the Isolation Trail, and then hit Bootsbur, Monroe, Pierce, and Eisenhower. And thanks, Gingerbeard, for stealing my idea. I appreciate it. Let's see.

[01:10:57] All these listeners are taking my ideas and running with them. Like, damn it! You can't be everywhere, Stomp. Yeah, I guess. Snooze you lose. Yes. All right. Now we have Abom Graham hiked Caps Ridge Trail and Castle Trail, and that's 12 and 13 for his T25.

[01:11:18] Then also did Washington and Jefferson for 81 and 82 out of the grid. Lauren Samson hiked Mount Martha for 11 out of 52 of the view, and then also did North and South Kinsmen for 13 and 14 out of the New Hampshire 48 4,000-footers. Next we go back to Bond Cliff.

[01:11:37] So Mr. Connolly Hikes finished the New Hampshire 48 4,000-footers on Bond Cliff. Congratulations, Mr. Connolly. Sounds like my junior high school gym teacher, right? Yes. Let's see. In the Woods, 29, hiked Old Speck. Epic, epic area.

[01:11:56] Mark Swayze hiked Mount Lowell with bushwhacking master Bill Boulderdash Wemmage for the New Hampshire highest 100. That's a hell of a trip, man. Lowell's no joke. That is a serious mountain. That's your favorite mountain. Yeah, it depends on the route up, though, but it's so thick up there.

[01:12:16] It's crazy. Where is that guy again? Is that like the Pemme Wilderness? It's off of Sawyer. No, it's... It's just off the flank of Carrigan Notch. Carrigan Notch, basically. It's the right-hand side. Yeah, across the street from Vaux Spur. Okay, gotcha. So a couple more here.

[01:12:40] We have Patrick Smart 603, hiked Chacora via Champney Falls for nine out of the 52 with a view, and that was with Jake Skis 603. Hiking Feeds My Soul did a Zealand-Bonds Traverse with Miles the Dog and an overnight at Guilleau. Cindy Chess hiked Whiteface for 31 out of the 48. Nice, Cindy.

[01:13:02] Yeah, nice work. Yeah, it's awesome, Cindy. And then finally Cameron KC3 did Icy Gulch and Devil's Hop Yard, which is a very cool area, and it's a lot cooler, actually, in the summer because there's just a natural cooling effect in that area.

[01:13:19] So it's a nice place to hike on hot days. Yeah, yeah, and Nick, the reason I didn't want you to do it, I've already picked out who was going to be the winner, so I just didn't want you to screw that up. No faith.

[01:13:30] I was protecting you, but I'm going to give this to Mr. Conley Hikes because, first of all, he finished his 48. He finished it on a good mountain. He picked Bond Cliff, and then there was a cool story that I caught.

[01:13:40] I think it might have been on the Instagram stomp, but one or two of his friends, they knew that he was going to be finishing up, so they went and put some trail magic in a cold mountain stream. They left a beer or two for him.

[01:13:51] Oh, is that when I saw that too? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fantastic. So I wanted to give him the notable hike because I think that's a cool story. That is really cool. That's a nice thought. Yep, yep. Well done. And you know what else is cool, Stomp? Congrats.

[01:14:04] Your back? My back when I'm wearing Volkluse's backpack frame. Smooth. Wow, that's really interesting. Our segues are unbelievable tonight, Stomp. Man, they're getting really tight, right? Yes, yep. I couldn't even sense it was coming. Too fast, too fast. So does your backpack not provide enough ventilation?

[01:14:25] Does your back sweat too much when backpacking? As you know, sweat can be extremely uncomfortable on the trails. Plus, sweat is a serious risk factor in both hot and cold climates. As your clothes get wet, your core temperature can dramatically fluctuate.

[01:14:38] And this can result in hypothermia, heat exhaustion, and dehydration. Let's not forget, just very uncomfortable. So today's your lucky day because we have good news for you. There's a piece of gear that solves the sweat and ventilation problem making your backpack more comfortable.

[01:14:53] Volkluse Gear's Ultralight Backpack Ventilation Frame. It's an Ultralight frame backpack accessory that easily installs in your favorite pack sizes 15 liters to 45 liters and creates a ventilating airflow gap between you and your pack. It's also ultralight, weighing around 3 ounces.

[01:15:11] That's equivalent to a pair of wool socks or a pool noodle. Whether hiking in hot or cold temps, the Ultralight Backpack Ventilation Frame from Volkluse Gear is a real game changer regarding airflow and ventilation. So visit volklusegear.com to order an Ultralight Ventilation Frame today.

[01:15:27] Use promo code SLASHER to enjoy a $5 discount and let them know that Mike and Stomp sent you. Alright. Let's dive into some White Mountains history, shall we? I wanted to just share this with the listeners. This is based on a chapter out of Laura and Guy Waterman's

[01:15:54] Forest and Crag book. So this is part 4, chapter 36, Uniting the White Mountains. So a lot of what I'm taking is based on their research and I did a little bit of my own digging on things as well. But I wanted to discuss how it came to be

[01:16:08] that all of the trails that we hike in the White Mountains got connected because that wasn't always the case. Going back to the late 1800s, the White Mountains were really a bunch of just disconnected areas of hiking trails that you couldn't get from one to the other.

[01:16:27] So Stomp, why don't we go back in time to the 1800s? Okay. Do you have any like musical drop that you can like a harp or something that can take us backwards in time? I can do be-loop, be-loop, be-loop. Okay. Alright. So that's good.

[01:16:47] So in the early history of the White Mountains, so you have to remember there's like three key stakeholders. You've got the big logging tree barons, then you've got the tourism interest, and then you've got the local residents who are mostly working across those areas.

[01:17:07] A lot of farmers, a lot of clergy, a lot of guides, innkeepers, and then you've got some locals that are also working with the logging barons to make money. So this caused a lot of tension and caused a lot of back and forth

[01:17:25] on early conservation efforts because the clear-cutting of the forest really woke people up, and there was a lot of efforts to put in some conservation efforts around preserving the trails and the mountains that were in place because there was this sort of tourism

[01:17:47] opportunity that a lot of locals relied on. So that went back and forth, and we've done a couple of segments on those that I can pull, and I'll put those in the show notes where you can check it out.

[01:17:57] But essentially by the time the early 1900s rolled around, the preservationists had mostly won out, and by like the early 1910s, the Weeks Act was passed, which established the National Parks, National Forest System, and then slowly after that there was funding approvals

[01:18:19] that were granted in order to do land acquisition. So as this is all being settled, when you step back and you look at the way the White Mountains were structured, essentially you had these various trail systems that are all built independently around a few tourist hubs.

[01:18:40] So you've got like Randolph, you've got Waterville Valley, you've got Wanta-Lancet, and none of these areas are, they're not connected to each other by trails. So essentially tourists go, they're staying at these ends, and then the trail systems are essentially just looping around

[01:18:57] so that they can get back into the main hubs. So there was not a lot of connectivity, but what happened was that because this was essentially like a challenge with transportation, you had horses, you'd go to one place and hang out and then tour that particular area.

[01:19:17] But when automobiles came around, that changed people's perspective. Instead of them looking and saying like, all right, I'm going to go to Waterville and spend my time there, or I'm going to go to Wanta-Lancet, or I'm going to go to Randolph

[01:19:30] and just explore that particular area, the automobile sort of opened it up to people to realize like, oh, this is all a continuous series and systems of trails and mountains that you can visit. So the automobile really started pushing the idea that, all right,

[01:19:48] we've got to figure out a way to connect these trails. Mr. Greeley, I would like to do a car spot today. Yeah, exactly. You're in your tweed suit and you want to go hiking. Right. Yeah, it's pretty good.

[01:20:06] And essentially the other thing about the trail system is primarily the trails were set up north to south with these tourist hubs. So the idea was that you would either land north of a trail system

[01:20:20] or south of a trail system, and then it would be nothing but looping back and forth. So there wasn't a lot of east to west connection. But now prior to this, the prevalence of automobiles, there was some early efforts to connect Waterville Valley

[01:20:36] with the rest of the White Mountains. In 1903, two men, Louis Cutter and James Sturgis Prae. By the way, I'm getting some lightning here. So just in case I lose power, I'll give you a heads up.

[01:20:53] They had – Cutter came up with this idea and then this guy Prae was the worker. And Cutter basically wanted to be able to find a route that connected Waterville Valley to the trail system of the Pemme Wilderness.

[01:21:09] So these are the two guys that worked out the idea to connect Greeley Pond out of Waterville Valley to the Pemme Wilderness. So one of the men that Prae worked with at that time was a gentleman

[01:21:26] by the name of Benton McKay who started to do this work and basically realized, like, oh wow, they're connecting Waterville Valley to the Pemme Wilderness. That's a really good idea. Benton McKay actually went on in the future to work on the Long Trail.

[01:21:43] So his experience between Greeley Pond connecting the Pemme Wilderness and then his work on the Long Trail is what inspired him to write the proposal for the Appalachian Trail. All right. So there was a little bit of this connectivity idea going on in the early 1900s.

[01:22:02] But by 1912, three men came together, Stomp, that changed the history of the White Mountains forever. And do you know where they met? Let me guess. Some smoky club in Cambridge. No, no, no. They were all like summer home guys in Waterville Valley. Oh, okay.

[01:22:26] So it'd be like if me, you and Nick had like homes next to each other and we were all into like hiking. Let's create a trail. Yeah, exactly. We're going to go cut trails. All right. Yeah. So they were in Waterville Valley.

[01:22:40] So the names of these gentlemen were Paul Jenks, who was a Latin teacher at Flushing High School in New York, Charles Blood, who was a Boston lawyer, very detailed, oriented guy. Charles. Yeah. And then Nathaniel Goodrich, who was a librarian at Dartmouth. Oh.

[01:23:02] So all three of these guys were known as sort of very stoic and rugged guys. And eventually, like they got to know each other through Waterville Valley. Jenks, who was a Latin teacher at Flushing New York High School, he later moved his summer home north to Whitefield.

[01:23:20] And that caused him to start exploring the southern presidentials. So the first thing he realized when he started hiking the southern presidentials is that he got frustrated because he would climb Jackson, and then he had to come down and then climb Webster again.

[01:23:37] And he's like looking at the connection on how close they are, but there was no way for them to get across from Webster to Jackson back then. It's so funny to think that. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Bushwhacking hadn't been invented yet?

[01:23:51] Well, there was a little bit of bushwhacking. I'm going to talk about that in a minute. I'll talk about a guy that tried to bushwhack Garfield Ridge and had a really hard time. But Jenks essentially, like he's looking at Jackson and Webster

[01:24:03] and he's like, look, I got to connect these somehow. Like this is ridiculous. I should be able to do a loop. So he very quickly was able to connect Jackson and Webster, and I think the trail is still in use today.

[01:24:17] And from that effort, he kind of learned like, okay, I'm getting to know what I can do. But this first effort by Jenks was, this basically sparked a 19-year run that would eventually see the entirety of the White Mountains connected because of the work of these three men.

[01:24:35] So by 1913, Jenks had recruited Charles Blood, and he was like, look, I've got this idea that I connected Webster and Jackson together, but I want to figure out a way to connect this series of trails over to Mount Clinton, which is now known as Mount Pierce.

[01:24:53] Right? So there was no connection there. So he was able to work with Charles Blood to connect that southern presidential trail over to Mount Clinton. And then from there, you now have all of the southern presidentials, Webster, Jackson connected to the Crawford Path,

[01:25:14] which goes directly up to Mount Washington. So now you've got like Webster connected. And then not really done with this area. So that was 1913. They started planning over the winter and into 1914, they grabbed Nathaniel Goodrich, a librarian at Dartmouth,

[01:25:34] and they were like, look, we've been doing some work up here. We've had some success the last two summers. They cast their gaze southward from Webster. And in 1914, the three men cut what is now known as Webster Cliffs Trail

[01:25:51] into Crawford Notch to connect it with Mount Willie and into the Pemiglacet Wilderness. So now they basically, they've taken what was done in 1903 by Lewis Cutter and James Pray, and they connected Waterville to the Pemiglacet Wilderness from the south.

[01:26:12] They've now connected the presidentials to the Pemiglacet Wilderness from the north. Stomp, want to guess how many days it took them to cut the trail from Webster down to Webster Cliff? How many? It took them a grand total of four days

[01:26:30] to finish the entirety of the Webster Cliffs Trail. These guys are beasts. Yeah, I'm like that. I was going to ask. That's nuts. Did they have a crew with them to do all this work? Yeah, I mean, over time, they recruited more and more people.

[01:26:45] And then eventually, because these three guys got involved in the administration of the AMC, eventually, I think that they started recruiting more and more people to build trails with them. But in the early days, this period from 1912 to 1914, where they broke open the southern presidentials,

[01:27:04] was just those three guys, essentially. Interesting. So another question I had about this, just briefly, I mean, the Weeks Act was what? Later, correct? 1913, I think. Okay. So did these guys just have the right to just go in there and rip apart the woods? Yeah, I don't know.

[01:27:24] They were involved with the AMC. They were involved with the AMC, so I don't know. There was an improvement committee with the AMC, so I'm assuming that they had run the plans by the AMC and that they had authorization to cut these trails.

[01:27:41] Or they were just at the Smokey Bar in Cambridge and just decided they were going to do it. Yeah, yeah. Or they just decided they're going to go nuts. But anyway, four full days to finish that Webster Cliff Trail.

[01:27:53] So inspired by all the success of the last few years, they returned to Waterville Valley and then they immediately started thinking about what they wanted to do next. So they set their eyes on Mount Garfield.

[01:28:06] So at the time, Garfield, you'd come in from the Garfield Trail from the north, and then Garfield wasn't out and back. There was no Appalachian Trail. There was no idea of a pemilupe back then. It was simply climbing up to Garfield and then coming back,

[01:28:23] and that's the only alternative you had. So we take for granted the pemilupe and all this stuff, but there was no connectivity between Garfield and Lafayette. There was no way to reach the Twins from Garfield.

[01:28:36] So the team set up to change that with a scouting mission at the end of 1914. So they finished the Webster Cliff Trail, did a scouting mission in 1914. They did talk about the—the Watermen's talked a little bit about

[01:28:51] there's very little recorded history about bushwhacks off trail in the area, but the Watermen's did reference Moses Sweetser, who was a Newburyport early. He was the first guy to write a guidebook about the White Mountains,

[01:29:05] and they talked a little bit about him talking about the horrors of Garfield Ridge as surpassingly difficult. So he did poke around a little bit in there, but he didn't have much success. But that was in the, like, 1870s.

[01:29:19] So fast forward up to 1914, and the crew of Paul Jencks, Charles Blood, and Nathaniel Goodrich, they set up camp in the now abandoned trail that goes to Hawthorne Falls. So Nick, remember when I talked about how on Gill River there's like a waterfall that's off the trail?

[01:29:43] I don't know if I was with you or if I was talking to Dave. Yes, yes. But basically at like the 3,000-foot mark, there's a bootleg trail that you can get over to these Hawthorne Falls.

[01:29:54] So that's where they set up their—and it's still a pretty popular bushwhack, I guess. So they set up their camp there in between the drainage for the Gill River and the Garfield Trail, and they did manage to cut a trail connecting Garfield to South Twin.

[01:30:11] So in 1915, they were able to finish that section, which these guys cared nothing about switchbacks. They were all about just going up the steepest part they could find. What kind of blows my mind with so much of this stuff, too,

[01:30:26] is it really wasn't that long ago that a lot of this was cut, at least in my mind. I think sometimes you walk down these trails and you think they're all ancient sort of things and passed through the woods, but that's—I mean,

[01:30:37] it's within someone's—I mean, barely within someone's lifetime, I guess, theoretically. Yeah, 110 years. I wonder, too, like when they're out there and they're scouting these trails, are they finding herd paths from moose and beer or whatever and just running with them?

[01:30:51] And at this time, too, was this—how long after the logging, but when a lot of that area was logged, I'm assuming it was a lot of new growth or— The logging was like the 1880s.

[01:31:04] I think it mostly slowed down in the 1900s, but I don't know if they went up that far. Or if they were just in the bowl of the Pemy.

[01:31:13] It was just too treacherous or wasn't worth it at that point to go up to that elevation and harvest it. Yeah, exactly. But anyway, so they opened up Garfield to South Twin,

[01:31:25] and then by 1916, the most difficult project they were working on is basically going from Garfield over to Lafayette. And they tried like multiple different routes, and they were scouting, and they had more people involved in this one, and they couldn't break it open.

[01:31:46] They just couldn't break it open. They couldn't find the path. But eventually, one of them was able to find an opening on the lower end of a cliff between Garfield and Lafayette.

[01:31:58] I think that there was a number of different challenges for them, but they did finally complete it. And then that's where the entirety of the Franconia Ridge was connected all the way from Franconia over to Garfield

[01:32:13] and then down into the Twins, and then the Bonds was already connected to that section. So that Appalachian Trail section that's so iconic, that Pemy Loop section that's so iconic, that was the final linchpin where they were able to break it open.

[01:32:29] When did like 13 Falls come into the picture? Much later? I would think probably later on. But then again, I think that that was probably maybe more accessible because that might have been an old logging camp that was down in the bowl.

[01:32:43] So I don't really know enough about that. But anyway, by this time, these three had secured a reputation and they had obtained leadership roles within the AMC as counselors of improvement. So Blood was the first one that took a turn at leadership,

[01:33:03] and then he was followed by Paul Jenks and then Nathaniel Goodridge. So essentially, these three rotated through this council of improvements for the AMC with eventually a fourth member taking on some of the responsibility and he became part of the crew too.

[01:33:21] His name was Carl Harrington. He was a Latin teacher at Wesleyan University. He was a little bit different than these three. He was more of like a nutty professor type that liked to wear tweed suits and stuff sandwiches in his pocket out there in the wilderness.

[01:33:36] He was a little less stoic than the other three. And that's why there's nothing named after Mr. Harrington in the lights. I guess not. Yeah, I guess not. So essentially, these four absolutely broke open the entirety of the key sections of the White Mountains

[01:33:55] to connect all of these independent hubs that were previously just sort of standalone. And I just give you the rundown of some of the work that they did. So they got the Notch Trail and the Mahoosic plus the entirety of the Mahoosic Notch Trail

[01:34:10] from Mount Hayes all the way up to Old Speck into Grafton Notch. So they broke out that entire trail there. Kinsman Ridge Trail, they linked Moosilake to Cannon and then later to Franconia. So they connected because Moosilake was all by itself until they cut that trail. Copy.

[01:34:36] They broke open Wildcat Ridge Trail linking the Carters and the Wildcats to Pinkham Notch. So previously you would have had to, I think, hike up a different section. So they weren't previously connected. In 1922, Blood laid out the trail from Zeeland Notch up to Zee Cliff and to Guyote.

[01:34:59] So now you could come in from the back direction of Willie Tom Field in that particular area over to Zee Cliff. Harrington in 1924 restored the route from the Southern Bonds to the Bond Cliff Trail. So that had been, I guess, lost over time.

[01:35:21] So he was able to reestablish that. So now when you hike down the Bond Cliff Trail, Harrington was the one that established that route. In addition to that, they also extended Madison Gulf from the Great Gulf over to the Auto Road

[01:35:34] and linked it up from Old Jackson so you could connect from Madison over to Pinkham Notch via Old Jackson in Madison Gulf. And then finally, Jenks and Blood opened up Fishing Jimmy Trail.

[01:35:50] And they also did the final work to restore Old Bridle and establish a consistent path on Old Bridle up to Lafayette via the now permanent route that we travel today. Incredible. Yeah, they connected everything. Three guys. Great work, guys. They were busy over, what, like a decade? Really?

[01:36:10] Yeah, like 19 years. They organized everything. So now that you've got all these trails connected, the next step is you've got Joe Dodge coming into Pinkham. He's establishing, you already had Madison Hut, Madison Spring Huts up there and you had Lakes of the Cloud already.

[01:36:27] He's establishing the hut down in Pinkham Notch. Now he's basically, Joe Dodge is coming in and he's expanding the hut system on all these trails that have now been connected. So the huts get into place and then you've got your sort of modern White Mountains configuration where now,

[01:36:46] previously you would go north to south everywhere. Now you're going east to west because of the hut system. Trailblazers. Yeah, so that's it. And history, I really haven't heard a lot about Paul Jenks or Charles Blood or Nathaniel Goodrich.

[01:37:02] These three men that met at Waterville Valley and they're described as hard men, men with a strong sense of right and wrong. And they also styled themselves sort of masters of building trails.

[01:37:15] I think that we all owe them a debt of gratitude and thank you for the tireless work that they've done over the years to build these trails that we all love.

[01:37:29] These are some really rugged sections of trail too, which I mean, that's probably why it hadn't been done up to that point. Crazy, right? Man, yeah. You wouldn't happen to have their lifespans available, would you? I think they all lived into old age. I don't know how old.

[01:37:47] I'd love to know how long these people lived and if they had any arthritis. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't know, but they definitely could swing an axe, I'm sure. Oh yeah.

[01:37:58] It is interesting though, I am fascinated about whether or not they were able to just find some herd paths and follow those and establish the trail that way.

[01:38:09] Or if they really had to just clear cut paths and then how they went about knowing like, alright, this is the way that I'm going to cut. Oh, they had to orienteer too. They had to navigate, get bearings and do it right. Yeah, absolutely.

[01:38:25] It's crazy, but what an awesome way to spend your summers, huh? I guess. That's the other thing is these guys didn't live up there, they would come in the summer and then do their work. Which is even more impressive because that sort of tightens down the time.

[01:38:40] I mean, you couldn't do anything in the winter. Yeah, it's incredible. Yeah, it really is. So that's the story about how the White Mountain Trails came to be connected. Very impressive. Awesome, thanks Mike for sharing that. I'm trying to figure it out. That was super fascinating.

[01:39:00] Yeah, and shout out to the Watermans for the research that they do. And like I said, if you want to read more about it, I don't do it nearly as much justice, but chapter 36 of part 4 of The Forest in Crag book is where it's covered.

[01:39:32] It's time for Slasher's Guest of the Week. Very cool, very cool. All right, so that is, so shout out to those early trail builders. And now we're on to our segment where we're going to interview our friend Nick here.

[01:39:56] So Nick, why don't you start off and just introduce yourself, talk about your early life and background in the outdoors. Sure. My name is Nick Sidla. Grew up being outside a lot. Grew up ice fishing, fishing, doing some local hiking where I grew up in Rhode Island.

[01:40:11] And always went to New Hampshire as a kid, usually like a week out of the summer. A couple weekends here and there. My parents kind of would always bring me up and show me around.

[01:40:21] We'd go up to Lincoln a lot of times and do like the flume and like the base and a lot of the touristy stuff and see the old man. Also stayed in, was fortunate enough, I should say, to stay on Newfound Lake. A bunch of grown ups.

[01:40:31] So that whole area is kind of near and dear to my heart with like, Cardigan's kind of one of the first mountains that me and Ash kind of hiked because we were staying near there. I love that area up there.

[01:40:39] So I would say to my parents, both weren't really hikers. My dad kind of would do smaller hikes and kind of got more into it as I got older and me and Ash kind of started hiking the 48 together.

[01:40:52] But yeah, just grew up outside a bunch, but not really particularly hiking a whole lot, I guess. Excellent. And then you've got a competing podcast, similar themes with us with a little bit of a, you know, a little bit of a,

[01:41:09] hiking, but you also cover some other stuff. So can you tell us a little bit about the PUDS podcast? Did you get bored like we did during COVID and decided to start a podcast? Not a far cry from what happened.

[01:41:23] My buddy Josh that is the co-host and producer, topic getter and all that good stuff of the PUDS podcast. We kind of joke around from time to time because it seems like everybody has a podcast. Like we joke about celebrities and stuff.

[01:41:36] It seemed like during COVID, literally they were popping up like mushrooms. Like everybody was kind of just trying to cash in on the podcast sort of thing. So finally he's like, we should just start a podcast.

[01:41:46] And we probably joked about it for like, I don't know, a couple of years we'd be hanging out together and be like, when are we going to do that podcast? And finally Josh kind of pinned me down. Sound familiar? Yeah, we'd be out golfing or whatever.

[01:41:57] And Josh is a pretty funny dude in general. So he kind of has that comedic brain and stuff. So I generally think he's entertaining to listen to. So I'm like, oh, maybe some other people would like that.

[01:42:07] And finally he pinned me down and I had mics and stuff in the house from recording music previously. And we kind of finally rolled with it. I think maybe like March of last year, finally kind of got rolling in like April, May.

[01:42:21] We're not on like a strict weekly cadence. I give you guys tons of credit. I've mentioned this kind of to both of you in person before too, but the weekly cadence you guys have is really impressive.

[01:42:32] I will say coming from, because I mean the behind the scenes work and everything like it takes discipline. It takes preparation and mixing it and getting it out there takes time. So it's awesome. Well that's the magic of Mike and I.

[01:42:45] We don't have discipline or any of that. We just rush around at the last minute and get it done. I love your co-host Josh. You know what he reminds me of Stomp is, you know, do you remember that viral video with the guy with the bald head?

[01:43:02] And he had that Boston accent where he was like, it's a baby wheel. It's a baby wheel. And he got on like Jimmy Kimmel or whatever. Like he kind of talks like that. It cracks me up.

[01:43:14] He's a very Boston guy and Nick's a little bit more prim and proper. So it's a good mix. That's pretty accurate. I joke that I'm also the filter. I mean, I also literally am the filter because I mix all the episodes and throw them up.

[01:43:27] But if Josh gets a little too rambunctious, sometimes I do reel him in and take stuff out that he says. Occasionally there's been a few things, but he does.

[01:43:36] I've had friends like work friends or whatever that have listened to our podcast be like, is that his real accent? I'm like, that's 110% a genuine New Bedford accent for people that live down there. So yeah, he's a super cool guy.

[01:43:50] Nothing hits like a South Shore accent, the Boston accent. So it's good. That's what you could say, I suppose. Yeah, for sure. So you've got a musical background and you've been collaborating a little bit with Stomp. Are you guys going to release any music at this point?

[01:44:05] Oh yeah. We're working on it. It's just on the table in the background and we sort of pick away at it when there's time, which is always hard to find. Yeah, it's there. It's fresh.

[01:44:18] I know Stomp has a giant musical background more so than I do, especially with producing and stuff. But I was in a band from my teens through the typical mid-twenties kind of thing and played around Providence a lot.

[01:44:29] Had some songs on WBRU for the younger listeners that probably didn't listen to the radio. They were radio stations sort of out of Rhode Island and kind of the New England area. So we actually got on there and I had a few songs on there.

[01:44:41] So that was pretty cool when that happened. And most of all, we just had a lot of fun playing out in clubs and stuff together and write music and sharing that with people. It was a good time.

[01:44:52] I know you showed your Instagram if people want to check it out, but you still perform a little bit. You'll throw some stuff out on your Instagram, right? Yeah, I'm kind of just lurking up here in our office and throw up videos and covers usually.

[01:45:05] And I write some original stuff now, but haven't done a little bit in a while. It's just a fun hobby. So it was cool to kind of chat with Stomp a little bit.

[01:45:14] I felt like I had a sort of purpose to actually learn to sing something or kind of work on something a little bit again. So that's been cool to feel that feeling again and kind of get back into it a bit. Right, right, right. Yeah, same for me.

[01:45:28] All right, when you guys are ready to release some tunes, like maybe we can, like, although I kind of am attached to our theme song, so I don't know if I'd want to get rid of it.

[01:45:36] But if you want to preview some tunes, maybe next time you do a surprise mix or something, you can put some of Nick's vocals on. Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, maybe he and I can sing a song at one of the events or something. Yeah, yeah.

[01:45:51] I got you, babe. That'd be fun. What's that song you always request, Mike? Oh, Cool in the Game. Celebration? Yeah, Celebration. I like that. We'll make notes.

[01:46:08] So Nick, you've been involved in hiking obviously for a while now, and I think we're sort of with the same mind, pretty passionate about it. But you picked up trail maintenance. Can you talk a little bit about your journey?

[01:46:20] And we've had Rebecca on in the past that's talked about like sort of the process of, you know, adopting a trail and going in and learn about like what the rules are for maintenance and things like that.

[01:46:29] Can you walk us through like your journey on how you were able to adopt a trail and what that entails? Sure.

[01:46:36] So the first off to is, I mean, you guys mentioned earlier kind of a little bit of the preface of the different organizations that were cutting cutting those trails like Wanda Lancet and Waterville Valley.

[01:46:46] I forget the Waterville Valley is an interesting acronym for some of the people that maintain the trails. I forget. I have a friend that does that too.

[01:46:53] But there's all in you got Randolph Mountain Club and the AMC does a bunch in the whites, obviously Appalachian Mountain Club, Appalachian Trail and stuff. So they do a lot of the links.

[01:47:02] So if you are interested in adopting a trail and kind of what I did to start out is just like Google, adopt a trail or whatever, and it'll usually lead you these organizations.

[01:47:12] I want to say that actually your your episode with Rebecca, I think you guys might have even linked. Yeah, we did. Usually, usually the AMC posts like orphaned trails every year.

[01:47:23] I forget what time they might even do it multiple times a year, but they'll kind of throw out a list of like, hey, these trails need somebody to maintain them. I'll speak from the AMC perspective.

[01:47:31] I know it's a little bit different depending if you're working with the US Forest Service or other other groups or organizations. But as far as the AMC, how it worked is I went on and saw the abandoned trail sections that they had.

[01:47:43] And I think and this is funny, and I was super naive at the time, especially with just not realizing how much time it takes.

[01:47:49] But I actually applied for I think it was like a mile section or so of airline, a mile or so of valleyway section and then airline cut off. They had you pick three and sort of your desired ranking of like which one you wanted the most.

[01:48:04] I always just love that area around Madison Springs and those two mountains. So I figured it'd be a really great place to have an excuse, so to speak, to get up there and kind of maintain trail. And it's just such a beautiful area.

[01:48:17] So that's kind of what weighed into my decision of picking those trails. And they all were they needed an adopter. After that, I actually went to a training that the AMC typically does one at Joe Dodge Lodge. It's usually like early to mid-May.

[01:48:32] I want to say that when I did it, I believe it was the weekend before Memorial Day weekend that you I went up and worked with a mix of AMC workers and US Forest Service workers.

[01:48:42] And they took us out actually on trail to I think we built like a water bar on Tuckerman Ravine Trail on one of the lower sections. So we went out and did that. You also go over like sort of using different tools.

[01:48:54] And I mean, this is a subset to I should say of a bunch of trainings that they offer the entire weekend.

[01:49:00] They do everything from like X training to like this was a basic sort of trail maintenance 101 kind of level class that you just have to take before you actually can go out there and maintain your trail.

[01:49:11] They I mean, trying to think that they have a lot of just more like in informational topics on like say like climate change and the whites and things like that that you can check out. So it's a whole array of things.

[01:49:22] But I took my basic trail maintenance training, went through that. And then after it was like maybe about I don't know, like a half a day, like five or six hours sort of training.

[01:49:30] You go back and then they divvy out sort of what your your adopted trail is going to be. So I got airline cut off from there. And yeah, that's pretty much the process of how you can go and do it. And I know it differs quite a bit.

[01:49:44] Like I have a friend who actually adopts or adopted, I should say, part of Drake's book trail. So in Waterville Valley, and it's a little bit different depending which organization you go through. But that's sort of like basic trail maintenance course followed by maybe different different courses.

[01:49:58] Like I also had to do like an Alpine zone training or I was going to ask you that as well. What what are the key differences between the, you know, below Alpine zone and then when you get above Alpine? I'm assuming obviously like there's Cairn discussions.

[01:50:13] But what else is there? So yeah, the Alpine zone one and it's too is interesting to me because like airline cut off, I wouldn't have thought necessarily was Alpine zone. Because in my brain, Alpine zone is kind of like you're completely above tree line, you're exposed.

[01:50:26] But it is it is an Alpine zone. It's got crumbles and all that kind of good type of Alpine vegetation and flowers and stuff growing on it.

[01:50:34] But yeah, in addition to doing the basic trail maintenance, I want to say to that year we had a previous plans for the only date that they actually were offering Alpine trail training. So I ended up meeting the region manager for the northern presidential section.

[01:50:51] And he was kind enough to sort of meet me in the fall after I adopted up there. And yeah, we went through like really interesting things you don't think about, like harvesting rocks, for instance, around like Alpine zone.

[01:51:02] Like you're not it sort of common sense if you think about sort of the sensitivity of a lot of the vegetation up there. But like don't pull out a rock that has flowers growing on or things like that.

[01:51:11] But even down to harvesting rocks is like a very specific like thing to do. I thought it was funny, too. He called out like straight out like don't steal rocks from other people's trails because my brain went to like there's not enough rocks.

[01:51:23] And the northern presidential is that you can't just take them from wherever because there's literally there's just rocks everywhere. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, we went into sort of there's no carnes on my trail.

[01:51:35] We did go over a little bit about building carnes and sort of what you would do if you had to build a car. And I'd probably have to take a class on that if I was specifically going to go into that.

[01:51:44] But like you were mentioning, like there's definitely different sort of stipulations if you're maintaining an Alpine zone as opposed to lower down on the trail.

[01:51:51] Even into like he had kind of told me and I know it probably differs maybe a little bit in the literature, but his sort of mentality, his being the region manager up there was that really Alpine zone for like airline cutoff.

[01:52:05] He's like just try to keep it basically shoulder width trail like you don't have to make it like you don't want to cut the crumbles back super hard because that stuff is really slow growing, which slow is a relative term.

[01:52:16] It's not going to grow like a white pine tree at like a thousand feet or something like that. But it does grow a decent amount.

[01:52:24] I mean, even when I was up there this week, some of the areas that get brushed in like I mean they grew in a bit more than I would have expected.

[01:52:31] It's kind of interesting to see based on where like on that trail, for instance, like the side and air airline definitely doesn't grow as quickly as the side towards Madison Springs. I take it probably because it's just a bit more sheltered.

[01:52:43] It doesn't get blasted by the wind and such. Yeah, and I noticed on that trail that it was two things I noticed because I was up there and I remember you were telling me you adopted that trail. So I was like, I'll do some scouting for Nick.

[01:52:54] Then I never texted you. So I apologize. But so what good am I?

[01:52:59] But I did notice that like it looks like there's a winter route that people were traversing on that kind of opened up that you had to like kind of put like some diversion away from to tell people like, you know, don't walk this direction.

[01:53:10] And it's like it's literally like 30 feet before the actual trail junction. Yeah, exactly. They call that braiding, which another part of trail maintenance that I never thought of until and again, it's a very common sense thing.

[01:53:24] If you think about like human beings, we take the path of least resistance typically when you're walking on trail.

[01:53:29] This is why people walk around mud and trample vegetation or they they end up doing exactly what the case of that section towards the valley way side of airline cutoff as they see the opening.

[01:53:40] And they'll just punch right through it because it's they're kind of like they're probably not thinking about trampling. There's like that's a really nice little field, Alpine flowers over there right now. That was really cool growing, but you can kind of see it.

[01:53:50] People just will go from A to B and sort of take the path of least resistance. So sometimes it's just stuff like I've just been filling in all all the trimmings and stuff I've been doing or if there's down branches, I've just been chucking them over there.

[01:54:00] And it's cool because I can tell people have not been walking over there as much even after like two years, because it's definitely grown in a little bit more. And you can tell that it's just enough of a deterrent to people.

[01:54:11] And the other thing, too, is building a scree wall over there, which has been quite a thing to try to lug rock from the easiest place to get rock up there that the region manager pointed out to me. And again, there's rock everywhere.

[01:54:23] So to me, it's just funny to say, like, the easiest place to find rock. But the base of Madison is probably the closest place for me to get rock for that scree wall. So I've kind of distance, though, considering like a quarter mile to carry rocks from.

[01:54:39] Yeah, it was funny hearing the region manager explain to that to me like very casually. I'm like, that's like not really that close. I've been fortunate enough to have friends come up and help me lug a couple bags.

[01:54:50] But even like this time, I just went up there and if I can get like three or four rocks and build it a little bit. I was pretty happy with that for now because it's fairly exhausting trying to carry rock in a canvas.

[01:55:00] I actually have like a giant IKEA bag that my buddy gave me, and it's already getting shredded at the bottom because those rocks are just everybody knows they're like super sharp and very angular and they tend to poke holes through bags pretty easily.

[01:55:11] So even with a pretty heavy duty bag, it's pretty shredded. But yeah, that's my everybody, including my co-host Josh likes to joke about my scree wall up there. But I'm proud of that little that little wall that's coming into existence on that side of the trail.

[01:55:24] You know, it looks good. It looks good. And I can tell like that section there, it probably still gets trampled in winter. But like I can see that there's like a lot of like vegetation growing up between the rocks now.

[01:55:34] So it doesn't look as obvious like a trail that you probably used to. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And there's a few drainages that I think I hit it a little bit later in the season than last year.

[01:55:45] They were really clogged up last year in the first year I went up there, but sort of that middle section that dips again, it's only point two miles of trail. So it's not that impressive, I guess, compared to some some sections people adopt.

[01:55:56] But those would those can clog up pretty good. Like when I went up in last fall, they were probably like knee deep. So it's kind of fun. It's like pulling a drain out of a bathtub. Like it's very satisfying.

[01:56:07] Like you find the clog where it is kind of draining downhill and pull out and then the whole thing just drains down to like ankle deep or whatever again. So it's kind of kind of fun. Very good.

[01:56:16] And then just in general hiking, Nick, can you talk a little bit about like what is your your pursuit? Are you doing list hiking? Are you doing like any particular goals that you have? I know you get out to like the Adirondacks now.

[01:56:32] Like talk a little bit about like what your what your thoughts are on hiking. Sure. So definitely a list centric hiker.

[01:56:39] I will say my buddy Mike Cordero actually got me and Ash into sort of the 48 accidentally, I guess, because he actually was like, oh, you guys should check out North Kinsman.

[01:56:50] Like we were going up, I think, for a week at Newfound Lake and wanted to do some more hiking. We had been up to Lonesome Lake and done a couple other things like artist bluff.

[01:56:57] So we were just starting to sort of get our feet wet and going down this slippery slope to a hiking addiction, I guess, at that point. And we got up to North Kinsman and we were pretty much hooked at that point. Finished our 48 together back around 2019.

[01:57:11] And since then, it's been Ash is definitely very much into the New England 67, my wife Ash. So she's kind of up to that. My sort of tentative long term goal, I really want to try to do the Northeast 111 or Northeast 115.

[01:57:26] So that kind of came into fruition more actually kind of during COVID. There was like that time where I think Mass and New York were sort of cool with each other, like when they were trying to not let people travel across state lines to different places.

[01:57:39] And New Hampshire still was kind of like, don't come up here if you're from further down south. But for whatever reason, the logistics of that worked out and started looking at a map and I was like, oh, like the Adirondacks have 4000 footers.

[01:57:50] And it was like from that point, it was kind of like, OK, like we definitely need to go out there and check that out then. So have banged out, I think I'm like 18 out of 46 for the Adirondacks. Much different vibe than the Whites, but also really similar.

[01:58:04] But as far as lists, that's sort of the tentative goals like that Northeast 111, which is actually 115 peaks because you got two in the CAT skills and a couple extra here and there. I forget exactly how the math works out.

[01:58:17] And then I'm almost through the 52 of the view list, which the 52 of the view list, I think I wouldn't say I enjoyed it. More than hiking the 48. It's just different, but I think I've liked the vibes more of the 52 of the view.

[01:58:30] Like it takes you really around lesser traveled areas of New Hampshire. I've had like Rogers ledge to myself in peak foliage, which was just kind of crazy compared to some other areas of New Hampshire. But just really interesting vibes getting out to a lot of those hikes.

[01:58:44] So so yeah. Yeah. And I always say the 52 with the view like the White Mountains is sort of like a love story. The 48s are like a love story for the White Mountains. 52 with a view is the love story of New Hampshire as a whole.

[01:58:57] Like you really get to go to every corner of the state and learn to love like the entirety of the mountains, not just the Whites.

[01:59:06] Yeah. I mean, I haven't gotten up to the bald faces because I'm saving that with Eagle Crag and Eastman kind of I don't know if I'll do Eastman separately or not for sort of my finish.

[01:59:15] But a lot of those hikes to are really as rugged as a lot of the 48. Like you're not getting like the Alpine zone or above tree line as much on many of them, like say on like Adams or Madison or something like that.

[01:59:26] But a lot of them take you through some really interesting and different areas. And and like you said, I mean, you got my Galway like all the way up to the north that is really way up there.

[01:59:36] Like I even I mean, I remember standing Gorham and looking at my GPS time. I'm like, it's still like two hours to get up there from there. I'm like, man. And then, yeah, you got that whole like Stinson.

[01:59:46] I like love Mount Stinson and sort of that area like the more western side of, I guess, the White Mountains and really the state kind of leading into the Connecticut River Valley is really pretty like Black Mountain and Stinson and some of those peaks over there.

[02:00:00] So it's it's really cool. Like I almost kind of again have been in the bow. And I think you guys have said it to where I'm like, if you want to check out like some of your first likes like Pierce or there's other good 48s.

[02:00:09] But like check out some of the 52s because I think you're going to have a little bit more peace and quiet. It's been if you're into that, like I am, especially during certain times a year.

[02:00:19] And it'll give you appreciation, I think, for how rugged and how beautiful and how much different terrain the state of New Hampshire really has.

[02:00:28] Yeah. And it will also in some cases like it'll get you home a little earlier, which is a good transition because absolutely for the listeners. Nick is a little bit younger than the rest of us.

[02:00:42] So he's been hanging out with us quite a bit and he fits in perfectly. Like I feel like you're maybe a little bit of an old soul fitting in with us.

[02:00:48] But like all of us old timers are we're getting to be like empty nesters, but you're in a different point in your life where you've got like a little toddler that you're dealing with.

[02:00:57] So you're sort of facing whereas I'm looking at like, oh, wow, I suddenly get all this free time on my hands. You're looking at a scenario where, you know, you've got commitments and balances.

[02:01:07] Now, it sounds like your ace in the hole is that your wife is as into hiking as you are. But it's still with it with a young kid, you're going to have less time available.

[02:01:15] So have you processed that or thought about that a little bit and how you're going to proceed in the near future? Absolutely. I mean, it's an interesting balance.

[02:01:25] And I totally agree where I think if Ash wasn't as into hiking as she is, I think it's harder to explain things.

[02:01:32] And I'll be flat out honest to like being a new dad, like there's definitely times where I've realistically felt guilty that I'm getting up and doing those things.

[02:01:38] But it is one of my things I'm probably most passionate about, at least right now in life and getting up there and getting out there. And really how it helps you just emotionally process things. I think sometimes I mean, I lost my dad a couple of years ago.

[02:01:51] So hiking really, I truly believe is very therapeutic and still is because it just allows you a ton of time to get out there and just be with your own thoughts. And then also be with other people and kind of just live and kind of process things.

[02:02:03] I think there's something very beautiful about the simple thing of going in the woods and like just watching your own two feet and paying attention to that. I think it has a ton of benefits that probably we don't really necessarily understand as human beings yet.

[02:02:16] That sort of trance like sort of thing of just focusing on one thing. But it's been a big balance and definitely a life change. I mean, our daughter's almost two. Fortunately, I mean, right now it's easy.

[02:02:26] I can throw in a pack so that we've done quite a few hikes like I've done Willard and we've gotten up at Bocciussi a few times together.

[02:02:33] But it's like you said, with the time stuff and kind of linked from the 52 with the view, I started checking out a lot of those because a lot of them are easier.

[02:02:42] And I mean, I live in southeastern Mass, so it's still a heck of a ride to get up to a lot of these.

[02:02:47] But shorter hike so I could kind of go up during the day and kind of bang it out and also come home at night, which is kind of a nice. So I rolled through a lot of those over the past year or so.

[02:02:56] And then just trying to balance where there might have been times where I'd be like, oh, I'll do like an overnight or two, for instance, like winter hiking and do that because it's easier than driving up at, say, like three in the morning or something.

[02:03:10] And definitely I've I've gotten better at going to sleep, I guess earlier, like, say, on a Friday night or something like try to get to bed for like seven, seven thirty and maybe eight o'clock and like waking up at two thirty in the morning or three o'clock.

[02:03:20] I'm getting out the door and kind of going hiking. And then a lot of times hiking and then driving back in the same day, which is a long day.

[02:03:28] But I try to do that because it's to me, it's like if I can hit bedtime and like leave and stuff and I'm for the bedtime story, I'm kind of in I'm feeling good.

[02:03:36] I know I'm like there at least seen her at night and stuff and spending time with her. So, yeah, I don't know if that was kind of an open ended answer to the question. Yeah, no, I think you're right.

[02:03:46] It's like you're you've got to you've got to carve out time for your own activities. And in some ways, like you can't be 100 percent consumed by the kids.

[02:03:55] And in some ways it makes you a better father when you've got, you know, your your reset button, whatever it is, and you come back and you know, so but it is I will say that I will be laughing like, you know, three, four years from now when you're like, I got to go to the dance recital.

[02:04:08] I can't go. I can't go do this overnight, guys. So just just prepare yourself. Yeah. As you were saying, you're you're empty nesting.

[02:04:15] My nest is filling up. So I'm sure like like right now, I think I've even talked to Mike before where it's like right now, the like the big thing was like swim class on Sundays. That's kind of that's kind of the only yes, the only commitment.

[02:04:25] So I was like Sundays were kind of the taken up day. And I know that it's going to be dwindling with time and trying to get out there as I can.

[02:04:34] And I mean, on the flip side is I really hope that our daughter gets as into hiking and gets as passionate about, I mean, anything really.

[02:04:44] But if she's passionate about hiking and nature and stuff like that, I'm going to be super stoked to be like like seeing you with your daughter, Mike hiking, like seems like super awesome.

[02:04:52] Like, yeah, that's kind of my dream is I hope even if she goes away for a while, like she'll come back and we'll do a ton of hiking together. Like, that's super cool. I'm pretty excited about that. Yeah, it's definitely a great feeling.

[02:05:04] And, you know, I can't tell you stop like I feel like the last like four or five guests that we've had on. Like I always ask, like, tell us about your early life.

[02:05:11] And they all were talking about how they're like, oh, yeah, my dad and my mom were really in the hiking. We were outside when we were little. So it sticks with some people for sure.

[02:05:20] But I feel like like we've been on a run of like everyone that's been on in the last like month or two. They all have the same story about their parents influencing their love of the outdoors.

[02:05:28] Yeah, I mean, like I said, I mean, I grew up ice fishing, but it's funny the things you think about. And Ash grew up skiing a bunch, but both of us were pretty accustomed to dressing for being warm in the winter, which is kind of proven.

[02:05:42] I mean, it's different skiing and sitting on a chairlift, but the whole concept of just like layering also not getting wet. Like my dad literally would be like if I got my gloves wet ice fishing, that was like a game over kind of deal.

[02:05:52] And like as a kid, it's very it's very difficult as a six or seven year old ice fishing to not want to like touch fish and like end up getting your gloves wet. So just like little things like that stuck in my head.

[02:06:05] And I'm sure Ash has similar things with growing up skiing where those kind of things you learn earlier in nature and life in a totally different hobby have kind of come back again in our sort of hiking careers to really be useful. Yeah, no, that's great.

[02:06:20] And one of the things I did want to cover with you and Stomp, I don't know if you remember this or not, but Nick was the guy that got like those amazing photos of the undercast when we were on the presidentials over the winter.

[02:06:32] Right. So he called a shot. Yeah. Yeah. And he hauled like a thirty five millimeter camera up, which was heavy, but perfect timing because it was the day to do it.

[02:06:41] But can you talk a little bit about Nick, your photography and what days you decide to bring the big camera versus just using an iPhone? Sure. So the camera originally came out of I'd started doing some videos like hiking videos.

[02:06:57] And at first I was showing sort of friends and family. A lot of my aunts and uncles found it interesting and it was cool to be able to show them visually where I was going or I was doing.

[02:07:04] Not that I was recording everything, but ended up getting a mirrorless camera probably a little over a year ago at this point. And with that, it was a very video centric camera, which is kind of what it's made for.

[02:07:18] But it also kind of got me into actually shooting photos with that as opposed to like an iPhone or something. But yeah, for instance, that that's a perfect example of that today where I was like, I knew there was a chance for that to happen.

[02:07:29] So it's like it would have been a bummer to lug up that. And sometimes I'm lugging up extra lenses or different things like that, too. Not not a professional by any means, but I do have a couple of different lenses and stuff.

[02:07:40] So if I think it's going to be a good day and also that day to like I'm kind of judging the pace of the group.

[02:07:45] Like I knew we weren't like trying to beat a deadline time and we're like, OK, we need to call us up to Madison and Adams and get back down. Like I knew it was going to just be a good vibe day, like a chance for that undercaster break.

[02:07:55] So or even like, for instance, when I was up doing trail maintenance on Tuesday night, I knew I had a chance to kind of hit sunset up there. So I'm like, I'm definitely going to definitely going to take up the camera because I think it's pretty incredible.

[02:08:08] Like, for instance, like you talked about that shot of you, like I can't even really count, like how many people messaged like or I guess commented rather on Facebook thinking that shot that I took of you in the shot was like Mike is coming up like the backside.

[02:08:21] I guess the southern side of Adams were coming up Star Lake and you kind of broke off almost a little bit off trail.

[02:08:26] It's like you're like in front of it and you can see, I think, Washington behind you and with the undercast and it just looked it looked epic. But that was actually just with my phone.

[02:08:34] So a lot of times I'm taking pictures with my phone and the camera interchangeably all the time. Your iPhone two, you can shoot in raw format now, which is a bit better for editing and whatnot and in pretty high resolution.

[02:08:45] So, so yeah, I would have just said I would have been like, yeah, that was a 35 millimeter icon. Xp3976. Yeah, just to impress everybody.

[02:08:55] Yeah. I mean, a lot of the shots I got that day I did do with a nice camera, but that one in particular was just like and just said like a lot of a lot of it, I think, too, with hikers and it helps having a person and getting that perspective.

[02:09:08] Right. And I think that was one of those shots that just lined up really well and was almost kind of just as lucky.

[02:09:11] Like that was one of those like I knew I knew it looked cool when we were there that day, but then I was looking at later that night and really didn't edit it that much because it didn't need anything and was like that was a really sick shot.

[02:09:23] Like it was just one of those right place, right times kind of deal. So wait a minute. Are you are you looking up film or are you talking like a DLSR? It's just a mirrorless. So yeah, like like similar.

[02:09:33] It's like a micro four thirds, which is lighter than DSLR camera by a little bit. Yeah. But yeah, it's still pretty. It's not light. I would say it probably weighs a couple pounds and sometimes extra lenses, too.

[02:09:45] So it's an extra thing. It makes it more of a bummer if you bring it up and it's like a crappy day and you're like, OK, I'm just lugging an extra four or five pounds in my pack or whatever, or maybe two or three without lenses.

[02:09:55] And you don't get you don't have any reason to use it, because I've definitely done that a few times where I'm like, it's just going to sit in my pack all day and it's just going to be a rock basically.

[02:10:03] Yeah. Yeah. And then you so you travel outside of New England to Nick. So you did a recent trip out to Joshua Tree, which we talked about a little bit. But can you talk a little bit about your experience out there?

[02:10:16] Have you traveled outside of New England a lot to do hiking? Not really at all. I've been out. So I've been out west for work. I'm kind of in the more of a tech field insurance company, but I was more on the tech side.

[02:10:27] So I've done out to like San Francisco and Las Vegas and in San Diego for different conferences, but never really got to hike out there. The only other hiking we've really done outside New England is probably was on our honeymoon.

[02:10:41] We actually went to Ireland and Scotland and we actually got out hiking in Scotland, which was really, really neat. But that was really the only place we've traveled to and also traveled in mind, like specifically like we want to go hiking.

[02:10:53] We want to we want to get get some peaks in and stuff. So not not really a huge traveler. We definitely would like to get out more. But that was our first big trip we had done in a while.

[02:11:04] Yeah. And can you talk did you cover Joshua Tree in one of the episodes of your podcast? Yep. Yeah. If you want to get more in depth.

[02:11:12] I think we did. It was it ended up being like something like a two hour episode where I literally broke down like every day, kind of what we did. Also, like where we stayed and and what we ate and things like that.

[02:11:23] And kind of just an overview, a little bit of Joshua Tree. But but yeah, we we went out. We'd planned this trip a while back, but had always wanted to go back to San Diego after I'd been there for work.

[02:11:34] Had told Ash about the weather and she was like, yeah, we need to go and check that out. So we kind of knew once we were going to do like a week and a half or whatever, a long trip that that was on the list.

[02:11:43] And my part and my part of the agreement for vacation was Ash was like, we need to relax and go to some beaches and do stuff like that.

[02:11:49] And then I'm like looking on a map within like a couple of days of like what's the nearest national park we can try to get to. And Joshua Tree is maybe a little over a three hour ride from where San Diego is in southeastern California.

[02:12:02] So it's very doable for a drive. I guess technically, if you want to do a day trip from San Diego, you could, too. But yeah, so we spent the first part of our trip in San Diego and then went out to Joshua Tree for like probably four days.

[02:12:20] Nice. Yeah, that sounds like an amazing trip. And what was your impression of just the thing that was always interesting to me when I went out west? I didn't go to Joshua Tree, but I did.

[02:12:31] I've been to Grand Canyon and Arizona and it's just like there's no tree line. It's just like open, which is so interesting to me. It just brings up like a different vibe for whatever reason. Like you can sort of see where you're going.

[02:12:46] And we get that out here above tree line, but it's not as common. So it's just a weird vibe.

[02:12:51] Yeah, I mean, that definitely was like a super odd thing because I think it's such a big thing in the whites to be like, oh, OK, we're going to break tree line and finally get above the trees. And have these awesome views.

[02:13:01] But you get out there and I didn't realize too until we got closer to traveling there and doing sort of research that Joshua Tree is basically part of it is a sort of high altitude desert. The western sort of northwestern edge of it is the Mojave Desert.

[02:13:18] And then the sort of southern eastern end, it drops and turns into the Colorado Desert. So you have this whole range of climate and fauna.

[02:13:26] But yeah, it's not like you're looking out and like seeing like pine trees or anything like it's very open land, super different than New England. It struck us how green everything is here.

[02:13:37] When we got back, it's I feel like just things you kind of take for granted and you don't notice as much where everything out there is just brown and dusty. The vegetation you've got like giant yuccas and cactus and sort of these scrub pines and scrub oaks.

[02:13:51] Joshua Tree is the namesake of the park, which are actually a type of yucca that can grow up to like 30 or 40 feet tall. Really impressive thing with those trees is they only grow like an inch or two a year.

[02:14:03] So if you're seeing sort of a 30 or 40 foot Joshua Tree, you can kind of do the math of how long that thing actually took to get as big as it did, which is pretty wild. Pretty wild. I didn't know they were that tall.

[02:14:18] Yeah, and that's according to the literature I was reading while we were there, they can get up to 40 feet. We definitely saw some that were in the 20 to 30 foot range, sort of different groves. And they tend to grow, I believe, around 3,500 to 4,000 feet.

[02:14:35] So they grow at like a very specific altitude, a very specific climate. And that's kind of why the park, I guess, is called Joshua Tree, because that's really one. I think it's one of the only places.

[02:14:46] Granted, I know it and Stomp told that story to me actually about how the Joshua Tree U2 album, the cover of that, that Joshua Tree isn't actually in Joshua Tree. It's in like Yucca Valley, which is outside the park, which nobody mentions.

[02:14:58] But they kind of are all confined, I believe, to that area. And I believe there's one area of Arizona where they might grow. And that's really the only place you can find those Joshua Trees.

[02:15:08] And I like to joke, I was joking with Ash that they're kind of like snowflakes because no Joshua Tree is the same. They all sort of look a little bit different and kind of grow in different sort of strangly ways.

[02:15:19] The trail system, is it tough to get to the trailheads you needed to get to? Was parking a pain in the neck or was it pretty easy? It was generally pretty easy to get to. Plenty of parking.

[02:15:30] Granted, we were there like on a Tuesday really through a Friday. And very easy to find. Everything was very well marked in the park. It's a little bit of choose your own adventure because there was definitely exhibits that were very well advertised,

[02:15:45] very popular, like things like Skull Rock or like the Arch. I'm trying to think of the name. But there's basically a rock arch that's sort of a thing that people do.

[02:15:55] Ryan Peak, which we did for sunset on the last night we were out there, was a very popular sort of mountain hike. But we also did Eureka Peak one day, which is more of sort of a desert hike you're hiking in sort of a wash out there.

[02:16:05] But parking was very easy to find. Very well marked maps. There's a little visitor center right there outside the park on the northern end of the entrance sort of where we were. So super easy to find stuff.

[02:16:19] And I think too, I'm sure it gets crowded like any national park does, but it's big enough.

[02:16:23] Like it's literally a little bit bigger than the state of Rhode Island that you can definitely get away from the people and find your own adventure away from the crowds if you wanted to for sure. Well, it looks beautiful.

[02:16:32] And Stomp, I feel like we got to get out there someday. It's on the list. Yeah, I miss the desert. It would be great. Yeah, it would be. But Nick, it's been great to get to know you. I'm glad that however we connected, I can't even remember.

[02:16:49] But I'm glad that you listened and that we ended up meeting each other because it's been great hiking with you. We're definitely tighter than you and Stomp, even though you're doing the music stuff. He hasn't hiked with you yet. We'll get out at some point, I'm sure.

[02:17:03] Yeah, at some point. But so I'll link those shows that cover Joshua Tree and Jacinto so that the listeners can check that out. And then I'll include the link to the podcast so they can check that out. I'll include a link to your Instagram.

[02:17:21] And maybe someday like me or Stomp can come on the PUDS podcast as well. And I can meet this Josh character. Absolutely. We'd love to have you guys. I'm going to make him say baby wheel. I'm sure he'll indulge you. I have no doubt that he will. Awesome.

[02:17:41] All right, Nick. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks, guys. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podbean, YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[02:18:04] If you want to learn more about the topics covered in today's show, please check out the show notes and safety information at SlasherPodcast.com. That's S-L-A-S-R podcast dot com. You can also follow the show on Facebook and Instagram.

[02:18:21] We hope you'll join us next week for another great show. Until then, on behalf of Mike and Stomp, get out there and crush some mega heat. Now covered in scratches, blisters and bug bites, Chris Staff wanted to complete his most challenging day hike ever.

[02:18:41] Fish and Game officers say the hiker from Florida activated an emergency beacon yesterday morning. He was hiking along the Appalachian Trail when the weather started to get worse.

[02:18:52] Officials say the snow was piled up to three feet in some spots and there was a wind chill of minus one degree. There's three words to describe this race. Do we all know what they are? All you want is help!

[02:19:05] This is Lieutenant James Neelan, New Hampshire Fish and Game. Thanks for being with us today. Thanks for having me. What are some of the most common mistakes you see people make when they're heading out on the trails to hike here in New Hampshire?

[02:19:17] It seems to me the most common is being unprepared. I think if they just simply visited Hikesafe.com and got a list of the ten essential items and had those in their packs, they probably would have no need to ever call us at all.