Episode 161 - Seek the Peak Live Event at Tuckerman Brewing Company

[00:00:00] I'm not hiking tomorrow, but I was going to ask you what's his preferred weather condition? I'm just going to get my equipment and I'm going to ask him. Oh, we're hiking for sunrise? The weather forecast is ridiculous for sunrise!

[00:00:17] I am over the moon! I feel like I'm losing weight! Hey! How you doing? All right, everybody. We're going to get the show rolling here. I tried to convince some of the ops forecasters to come up and do this for me, but I'm sort of stuck with it.

[00:00:51] We're going to roll this sort of like we do every week when we record. Again, I'm Stomp and this is Mike. We're from the Sounds Like A Search And Rescue Podcast. Stomp, should we ask them if they ever listen to the show?

[00:01:05] Should we ask them if they've ever listened to the show, like to raise their hand or should we just keep going? Yeah, I guess that's a good idea. Go ahead and ask them. Has anybody heard of us before? Anybody? A raise of hands?

[00:01:18] Excellent, excellent. That's a good sign. You like shiny stickers? You do? You can take more than one. Okay, I don't know. I like shiny things. So here we go. So we have a bunch of stickers here if you want to grab them. They're for free.

[00:01:34] The patches cost money, but you can talk to us about that. Now, Stomp, this is the part of the show where we usually start with the music. Here is the latest Higher Summits forecast brought to you by our friends at the Mount Washington Observatory.

[00:01:53] Weather above treeline. Before you hike, check the Higher Summits forecast at mountwashington.org. Weather observers working at the non-profit Mount Washington Observatory write this elevation-based forecast every morning and afternoon.

[00:02:20] Search and rescue teams, avalanche experts, and backcountry guides all rely on the Higher Summits forecast to anticipate weather conditions above treeline. You should too. Go to mountwashington.org or text FORECAST to 603-356-2137. All right. And here's your forecast for Friday, July 19th and Saturday, July 20th.

[00:02:50] Friday night in the clear under mostly clear skies with a low in the lower 40s. Winds will be west at 20 to 35 miles per hour. Wind chill falling to 30 to 40 above. Saturday, this is amazing. In the clear. It's a miracle.

[00:03:09] Under mostly sunny skies early and partly sunny skies later with a high around 50 degrees. Winds will be west shifting northwest at 20 to 35 miles per hour increasing to 30 to 45 miles per hour with gusts up to 55 miles per hour.

[00:03:28] And Saturday night in the clear trending towards in and out of the clouds under partly cloudy skies with a slight chance of rain. With a low in the lower 40s winds will be northwest at 30 to 45 miles per hour with gusts up to 55 miles per hour.

[00:03:47] We have Sunday as well. Mostly in the clear under partly sunny skies a slight chance of rain showers in the early morning and then the late afternoon with high again in the upper 40s.

[00:04:00] Winds will be northwest at 30 to 45 miles per hour with gusts up to 55 miles per hour decreasing to 20 to 35 miles per hour. And the wind chill will be 30 to 40 above.

[00:04:13] From the Woodpecker studio in the great state of discuss all things related to hiking and search and rescue in the white mountains of New Hampshire. All right. I survived the forecast. Hey, what's up, brother? So there's your forecast. It's it's literally a miracle.

[00:05:40] We've spent the last month in rainy, crazy weather with tornadoes and microbursts and everything else. And this weekend is shaping up to be absolutely perfect for the hike. So we're here at Seek the Peak 20, 24. And we're just going to be chatting and interviewing a bunch of people tonight.

[00:05:56] And we plan to release this in a couple of weeks for your enjoyment. We're Mike and Stomp from the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast. And we'll be here for the next few hours. We have a bunch of stickers and all kinds of cool stuff up here.

[00:06:10] If you want to come up and say hi, do so. We'd love to meet you. We have oboes here. We have a whole bunch of folks hanging and just chatting and getting ready for the big day tomorrow. So how are you, Mike? I'm doing well. How are you?

[00:06:24] I can't hear you, Mike. You can't. I'm doing well. Yeah. Just get right on there. Closer to the mic. OK, there we go. How's my volume now? Perfect. OK, very good. So Stomp, based on that weather, it looks like it's going to be a good day tomorrow.

[00:06:39] We're going to talk to some of the folks from the Weather Observatory. They're going to come here. But I'm curious, what is your preferred – I know you're not hiking tomorrow, but if you were, what would be your preferred route to go up Mount Washington?

[00:06:51] That's a really good question. I think I would choose Glen Boulder. That's always my favorite. My wife and I, Mrs. Stomp, have done Glen Boulder so many times. And that was actually the trail that got her hooked on hiking. So yeah, Glen Boulder straight up to the summit.

[00:07:09] And then where would you come down? Let's see. Probably down Lion's Head or maybe even the Great Gulf and then take old Jackson Road back to Pinkham. Make a nice big loop out of it. That's fair. Now the problem is I asked him the question first,

[00:07:28] and he gave the same answer that I would give. So I guess both Stomp and I are advocates for going up Glen Boulder, going across the – I think it's the Garden Cutoff is the trail,

[00:07:42] and then up Davis. And then personally for me, I would probably go back down Davis and then head over to Lion's Head and come down that way. So that's my opinion, Stomp. So great minds think alike. You can't go wrong.

[00:07:58] No. And mostly the reason I say that too is just mostly because of the weather. It's going to be perfect conditions up there. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's going to be great. So welcome to Episode 164 of the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast.

[00:08:12] We're excited to be recording live here at the fabulous Tuckerman Brewing Company for the Seek the Peak pre-hike party. So Seek the Peak is the annual kickoff fundraiser event that supports the Mount Washington Observatory. The observatory is a private, nonprofit, member-supported institution

[00:08:33] with a mission to advance understanding of the natural systems that create Earth's weather and climate. And I'm just making this up off the top of my head here. So I'm impressed. You got this, kid. Yeah, I got this. See, I lost my time.

[00:08:52] But you get the observatory is awesome, basically. So I'm Mike. And I'm Stomp. Let's get started. All right, let's get started. This has been Peace from Hiking Buddies. We are a 501c3 nonprofit committed to reducing avoidable tragedies through education, impactful projects, and fostering a community of support.

[00:09:37] You can find out more at hikingbuddies.org. We wanted to say thank you to those who have supported our mission and most importantly, say thanks to those who speak up, who ask questions, and who are willing to provide guidance and assistance on the trails when needed.

[00:09:51] You embody what it means to be a hiking buddy. And now, for all my newer hikers out there, here's this episode's Hiking Buddies Quick Tip. Plan the hike taking in all ability and skill levels. Pre-planning will promote a successful hike. Communicate with team members, deploy a solid plan,

[00:10:19] ask good questions, and listen and be patient with your teammates' needs. Hi, Christina with White Mountain Endurance Coaching. And I wanted to let you know that not only do I coach endurance athletes, I also coach hikers and mountaineers. I have plenty of experience in the White Mountains

[00:10:45] and would love to teach you how to start out, whether you're a beginner, if you're more advanced, give you some more skills to transition from hiking to trail running, and most of all, teach you how to move safely in the mountains.

[00:10:56] So whatever your goals are, whatever your experience is, reach out, coaching.christinapulsik.com. I'd love to help you. All right, so we're going to start off with Fawn. So Fawn is here and she's like, are you Instagram famous? You can talk on the mic.

[00:11:14] I am not Instagram famous. Okay, but you do have... I'm just a regular person. Should I share your Instagram so you can get followers? You can share my Facebook. All right, so what is the Instagram again? It's Bike Camp Hike Girl. All right, you don't swim then?

[00:11:27] No swimming. You don't swim. Okay, so it's Bike Camp Hike Girl. Correct. Okay, is that an order of what you prefer to do? Is that your favorite order? No. It's not? What would be your favorite order then? Hike. Hike, okay, that's the right answer. That's the right answer.

[00:11:46] So why do we have you here? What's so special about you that we want to talk to you first? So I'm here as one of the Mount Washington Observatory Seek the Peak stewards.

[00:11:57] There are eight of us, and I am one of the people that has hiked a lot of the trails. In fact, I've hiked the entire book. You have? I have. I finished last summer. So you've even hiked the link? The dink. And you've hiked the parapet trail?

[00:12:13] The parapet trail, correct. Wow, talk about a miserable experience. That is not the worst one. What is the worst trail in your opinion after hiking all of the trails in the White Mountain Guide? That would be the trail that shall not be named. What trail is this?

[00:12:28] I can't tell you. It's a secret? If you speak it out loud, it's evil. Really? Okay. If you're a part of hike club, the first rule is don't tell anybody about it. This is interesting. So maybe you can whisper it in my ear later.

[00:12:44] I'll whisper it later, but it's a trail in the Pemijawasit Wilderness that most people don't go on. It's hard to follow. It's super muddy. It has terrible bog bridges and a lot of mosquitoes. I'm guessing this is the Franconia Brook Trail. No. No? Okay, we'll find out later.

[00:13:02] For me personally though, I think the parapet trail is the worst trail in the Whites in my opinion. It's just like side hill, brutally. It needs a trail maintainer because you have to basically bushwhack through

[00:13:16] and you're much better off going over the top of Madison in my opinion. Correct, but that's always a good plan. So what exactly is your job duties as being a steward for Seek the Peak? It's been really fantastic.

[00:13:29] For the past few months, the eight of us have been helping to promote Seek the Peak. We've bonded together with Oboz working with their new katabatic wind shoes, which are amazing. Yes! And we're all hiking different ways tomorrow or this weekend. Look at you, you marketing queen.

[00:13:53] I'm impressed. Oh and we have the Oboz table over there. So if you have any extra shoes and you want to give them to me, like I... Yeah, yeah, I'm a size 9, thanks. So what exactly are you going to be doing tomorrow then?

[00:14:09] Are you going to have like a vest on that says I'm important or how's that going to work? No, I'm just regular. But I'm so excited because this forecast is over the top awesome.

[00:14:21] I really enjoy sunrise hiking and to have a forecast with clear skies, maybe 15% clouds, 40 degrees at the summit, 20-25 mile an hour winds. I am so happy right now. Yeah, I mean the observatory like they've dusted off their weather machine and really turned it up to like perfection.

[00:14:41] It's awesome. So we're going to hike, we're starting at 2am. 2am? Mm-hmm. So obviously you're intent by doing a 2am hike is to see the sunrise. Correct. All right. Above tree line. Above tree line. So what's the route that you've chosen for tomorrow?

[00:14:56] We're going Tuckerman Ravine Trail to Lion's Head Summer Route and we'll be well above tree line by easily by 3.30 or 4. We might be on the summit by 5 or 5.30.

[00:15:08] We might not, the three of us talk a lot so if we're yakking too much, we might not go as fast. Yeah, yeah, no, that'll be amazing. But we'll certainly see sunrise. When you're on that western slope of Mount Washington, sunrise is gorgeous looking in that direction.

[00:15:23] I've seen it from Bootspur. I've done this from Tucks before which is a little bit compressed but I've also done it from Lion's Head. It's amazing to see sunrise from this side of Mount Washington. Yeah, yeah, that's something I've never done before.

[00:15:36] I've seen sunrise from Chakora which is sort of the same angle that you're going to be looking at but I haven't been, I'm too lazy. I do hike in the morning but I'm not like, I'm too lazy to get up at 2 in the morning.

[00:15:46] You just have to think of it as a late night. Well, do you get up or do you stay up all night? No, I'm going to go home soon and go to bed for a couple of hours and then get up at midnight.

[00:15:55] Okay, and then is the plan essentially like you'll be coming down as a lot of the hikers will be coming up? Exactly. And are you going to be inspecting like backpacks and making sure that, no, you're just going to be saying hi and sharing people on? Correct.

[00:16:08] Okay, and then helping out if somebody needs help? Always, of course. So I always carry a lot of safety gear. All right, now what is your resume that you were able to qualify to be a steward like this? I don't know why they picked me.

[00:16:20] Really? You seem like you have like a really good hiking background. I have a lot of hiking experience here and I do a lot of volunteering for the Forest Service. I'm a trail adopter and also I work at the Trailheads as a trailhead steward.

[00:16:33] Okay, so you do do the trailhead steward in your other life. Do you just volunteer or do you have a full-time job as well? I'm actually a doctor. You're a doctor as well? Yeah, full-time. Oh boy, you have a very busy life. I'm tired just thinking about this.

[00:16:49] It's okay. This is my passion. I live for hiking, so I'm really happy. But guess what? We're either going to go down Boot Spur like what you were talking about, or have you been on Nelson Crag Trail?

[00:17:04] I have been on Nelson Crag Trail, but I do prefer Boot Spur. I'll give a tip. In my opinion on Boot Spur, the reason I like that is that when you come down off of Boot Spur,

[00:17:14] you have to be careful because you do not want to step on any of the mountain vegetation or the flowers, but there's like three or four spots where you can rock hop and get out to direct views of Tuckerman Ravine.

[00:17:27] In my opinion, the last time I did Boot Spur was maybe about a month or two ago, and I actually took Boot Spur Link down to Hermit Lake, which I thought was good.

[00:17:37] But before I did Boot Spur Link, I connected with a couple of the overlooks to look directly into Tuckermans and their fantastic photo opportunities. So for me, I love going down Boot Spur. It's awesome. We're going to make a command decision at the summit.

[00:17:55] The three of us decided we're not going to decide until we get there, and then we'll decide which way to go. Yeah, yeah. And in my opinion, coming down off the summit, I always recommend Davis Path versus the Tuckerman Rock Hop.

[00:18:07] I mean, I've been there, done that on the Tuckerman Rock Hop, but I prefer Davis Path. I prefer Davis Path, even though it's a little bit longer. To me, it's a little bit quicker because you're kind of looping around. Better footing. Agree.

[00:18:19] Very good. So, stop. Is there anything else? Do you have any questions? I do not. I am satisfied. Okay. All right. So anything else you want to share with us? Nope. So I will be over here for trail information.

[00:18:32] If you're hiking tomorrow and you want to talk about your route, come on over. I have maps and everything. We can talk about your route. Okay. So, Fawn, I'm going to ask you, you have to make a decision here.

[00:18:46] We have three people from the observatory that are going to step in. And we have... Hold on. Let me get the names to make sure that I don't mess this up. Uh-oh. We have Charlie, Francis, and Drew. So do you know these guys? You don't know them?

[00:19:04] Okay. Do you want to pick... So we have Francis and Drew. You've got to pick one to start off with. But they can both come up. So, you're going to pick Francis to start with? Yes. Okay. But you guys can both come up. We'll have mics here.

[00:19:22] Thank you. Thank you so much, Fawn. That was great. Let's hear it. That was awesome. Let's hear it for Fawn. Hooray! Hooray! Hooray! ...in Concord as well. And more. Check out our website for the full list of New Hampshire and New England-wide locations.

[00:20:41] Use code SLASHER on our website for 10% off an online order shipped straight to your door. That's fieldstonekombuchaco.com Okay, so we are here with people that actually work in the Mount Washington Weather Observatory. So, Francis. Yeah. We just put it up to you pretty quick.

[00:21:07] So, I'm Mike. Nice to meet you. Likewise. Yeah. Okay. Have you ever listened to the show before? Not yet. Not yet? But I definitely will after today. Of course, because now you're on it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. So, why don't you introduce yourself.

[00:21:20] What is it exactly that is in your background that you were able to land a job working at the Weather Observatory? Sure. Yeah. So, I'm Francis Terasiewicz. I'm a meteorologist, weather observer, and education specialist on the summit.

[00:21:31] And I say that quite a bit because I've got a lot of immediate appearances under my belt. But anyways, I went to – well, I'll go way back. I started with a passion of weather when I was in elementary school. I was one of those, like, weather channel kids.

[00:21:44] I don't know if that's, like, a big thing, but I got to the point where, like, my parents wanted to watch anything but the weather channel. And yeah, I got started with Nor'easters. So, we had a huge snowstorm in, like, 2000 or something like that.

[00:21:57] I was, like, three or four years old at that point. I knew I wanted to get into weather even back then. But fast forward, in high school they called me the Francast.

[00:22:05] So, we had kids would just randomly come up to me and ask if, like, we're going to have school the next day or not, if we had a lot of snow coming.

[00:22:12] And then from there I formally got my weather degree at Linden State College up in northern Vermont. And I'm wrapping up my master's at Plymouth State University. All right. That's awesome. So, let me ask you a question here, Francis.

[00:22:25] So, my kids, they've just graduated from high school, so I'm a little bit past this. But there's a little one over there. There's a couple of little ones over there. What is the best technique for the young people to manifest a snow day when it's winter?

[00:22:40] Is it the... My kids used to sleep with a spoon in their bed. They used to wear inside-out clothes. Is there any tips or tricks that you can give? So, yeah, inside-out pajamas for sure. Ice cubes under the pillow. I don't know why that works.

[00:22:53] Maybe there's some meteorological variables involved, but, yeah, definitely ice cubes under the pillow seem to work for me. All right. Well, thank God he had an answer for that. I thought he was going to just get up and walk away and say we're crazy here.

[00:23:04] So, what is your day-to-day duties at the observatory? Yeah, sure. They range from getting up in the morning at 6.15 or so during the springtime. But then during the winter we get up a little bit earlier, 5.15. We're briefed by the night observer.

[00:23:19] And then after that we get on the radio. So we do radio calls with the AMC. We do radio calls with WMWV, which is like a local radio station. And then, yeah, it's 12 hours of observations. So I split it amongst my co-worker.

[00:23:31] So we'll do the six hours each. And then I'm an education observer. So we'll do educational programs primarily with K through 12 students, which can be really fun. Sometimes you get some really crazy questions from the middle school age particularly.

[00:23:45] I've had questions like if I play Fortnite or how many push-ups I can do, things like that. You never really know what you're going to get. And then we do our daily forecast, the Higher Summits forecast. Okay. And you write those forecasts? We do, yeah.

[00:23:58] We spend about two to four hours a day depending on how complicated the weather situation is looking. And do you have—this time of the year right now, it's interesting. I feel like it's tough. We focus on search and rescue a lot.

[00:24:12] And there will be like two or three search and rescues, and then somebody will say like, oh, search and rescues are out of control and it's getting so busy. So I feel like I don't want to be that guy when it comes to the weather to say like,

[00:24:22] oh, we've had a couple of tornado situations and warnings and like, oh, there's this big change. But is there a pattern that's increasing around intense weather patterns this time of the year? Or is this pretty much normal pattern and we're just kind of in the middle of it?

[00:24:38] It's a fairly normal July. It didn't help that we had an early season hurricane come through a couple of weeks ago. That was Beryl, which probably was all over the news for at least a week or so. That was the earliest Category 5 on record.

[00:24:50] So when it came towards New England as a remnant low, it still packed quite a punch. And July, of course, as you know, is hot and humid, so plenty of fuel for thunderstorms. And so really this year was a pretty extreme year for that type of stuff,

[00:25:02] the microbursts and tornadoes and whatnot. So yeah, it's not just you feeling that. It's a bit more extreme. The last couple of years have been a bit more extreme than normal. Yeah, and another question I have for you is when you're writing the weather forecast,

[00:25:16] and Drew, you may have something to add here, there's probably like what, half a dozen times a year where the weather forecast comes out and you don't explicitly always say like, hey, don't go hiking, don't go outside.

[00:25:28] But that's the tone of it is you sort of have a very, you know, this is going to be dangerous conditions and we don't recommend anybody enter above treeline. What's the process for those situations or those weather windows when you've got extreme cold or you've got extreme conditions?

[00:25:46] Do you have the autonomy to just write that on your own, or does the whole team get together to say we really want to get the message out to say that we're at a heightened level of warning? Yeah, I'd definitely say it's a full team effort.

[00:25:59] So we're all weather geeks on the Summit. We all do this stuff day in and day out, even when we're off the mountain. We're looking at the forecast for the mountain. So what we do is there's a lot of debate involved.

[00:26:09] We each have our own favorite weather models that we look at. So we'll go back and forth with that. But when it comes to it, we're looking at, I guess, percentiles, like how unique is an event that's coming towards the Summit?

[00:26:22] And so, for example, last year in February, you could really see almost a week out that this was going to be an extreme event. You had cold coming from the Arctic part of Canada all the way down to the Summit.

[00:26:33] And so sometimes it's obvious, even a week out, but other times it takes a little bit more thought and time to put those forecasts together. There's a lot of in-between situations, right?

[00:26:45] So if we think back to February of 2023 when we had 109 below for a wind chill on the Summit, again, that was obvious a week out. But our most challenging forecast can sometimes be with thunderstorms, especially ones that are forming right on the terrain.

[00:26:59] So this can be a little bit harder to give people a more advanced warning of. Yeah, what I've noticed, especially with search and rescue situations, is some of the more dangerous times are maybe not the extreme cold because a lot of times people have enough warning.

[00:27:13] It's those thunderstorms or the cold conditions when it gets to be below freezing wind chill, but people get caught out in late May or June or even July. Those can be crazy conditions. So I'd imagine that's where you really have to get the warnings out.

[00:27:29] Yeah, definitely. And this last year was really weird. We had record heat in June, so we got up to 70 degrees on the 18th, which, shattered our old record of 67. And then literally 10 days later, we got down to 27 degrees with a wind chill of 5 above.

[00:27:42] So that was another event where we could kind of see it a week out. I feel like the cold events are the easier events to forecast in longer terms or longer durations. Great. Well, thank you so much, Francis. And stick around.

[00:27:55] I'm going to talk to Drew a little bit here. So, Drew, why don't you introduce yourself? A little closer. My name is Drew Bush, and I'm the executive director at the observatory. So are you the big boss? You're in charge of everything?

[00:28:09] Well, I, of course, have a board that I work with that I report to. All right. So you're, you know, aside from the board, you're the hiring and the overall oversight. So how big is the team up there?

[00:28:21] We have 24 people full time at the observatory. The team on the summit is actually seven people. Seven people at a time. Soon to grow to eight, actually. Soon to grow to eight. So and then is that full time?

[00:28:33] And then you I'm assuming you have some internships or some college exchange programs as well. Yeah, absolutely. We actually have two daytime observers on each shift. So they're on for eight days and then they're off for six days. There's one nighttime observer.

[00:28:47] And then actually this summer we have two interns on each shift as well. And we're actually really looking to expand the opportunities we can add for undergraduate students. So we've been looking to grow the number of interns we can host each semester.

[00:29:00] Got it. And then do you I'm assuming as well, you probably host some research people that aren't associated with the observatory, but they're doing research for PhDs or other agencies as well? Yeah, absolutely. We actually have a variety of research programs that we work with universities partners on.

[00:29:19] We also work with state and federal and private partners as well. So we have product testing we do where we're working actually to finalize a contract with the U.S. Air Force right now to test their weather instrumentation for them.

[00:29:34] We've worked obviously very closely with the National Weather Service, provide data and forecasting for their operations and for their models as well. And then we have a variety of different university partners that we work with in different capacities too.

[00:29:49] OK. And then as far as the shift management, do you get involved in the shift management or I'm assuming there's a manager that oversees everything? Yeah, he's actually around here too. But we have Jay Brocklow, who's our director of weather operations.

[00:30:03] OK. And so he actually oversees the summit team and I work a lot with him to plan and to think about what we need to do on the summit.

[00:30:10] Got it. And then in the wintertime, you've got a rotation of people that have to go out there and clear off the ice from the equipment and basically get out there.

[00:30:21] Do you just like send the youngest guy like Francis gets out there for every shift or is it a rotating? I think Francis wants to comment on it. Yeah, Francis might have something to say there.

[00:30:31] Sometimes it feels like we're picking the shortest straw to decide who to go out there. Yeah. But yeah, some events, you know, we're de-icing every hour.

[00:30:40] But some of the biggest nor'easters we get throughout the year, you know, the ones that are dropping a foot of snow in Boston, for example, those are the days where we're de-icing every 10 minutes or so.

[00:30:48] We're going up and down our tower and so, yeah, we'll try to swap out as much as we can on the summit. Now, do you guys like, do you pay attention to the hikers that are coming and going from the summit?

[00:30:58] Like if there's crazy conditions and you see a hiker walking up, are you just shaking your head being like these people are crazy and they're going to put themselves in danger or?

[00:31:06] Well, I mean we really try to think about how can we get to the hiking community before they're on the summit or in the higher peaks.

[00:31:12] So we've partnered with the fire service, for example, and put up warning signs at all of the trailheads to higher peaks where you can even text us or scan a QR code to get a forecast before you step foot on the trail.

[00:31:24] And we have big plans to really begin offering our forecasting even more broadly, you know, offering content to media partners in metropolitan regions so that we can hit people even before they step out the door and drive all the way up here and get into something that might be a dangerous situation.

[00:31:40] Yeah, and it's a tricky thing. Like we talk about it all the time and I think the challenges that you have is that you've got hikers, a lot of them are very goal oriented.

[00:31:48] And then you've got people that are traveling from out of the region and they've got a small window of time.

[00:31:53] And a lot of times bad decisions are made because they've got that small window of time where they only have that one day and maybe they've got a little bit of experience but not enough to know that they're walking into a tough situation or they just roll the dice.

[00:32:07] And it's tough. I feel like the people that have a little bit of experience are the ones that get in the most danger because they've got a little bit of confidence as well.

[00:32:17] And we try to get that message out through the weather forecast and then sort of talking about the weather forecast. But it's tough because you've got to develop that voice in the back of your head that says, like, all right, today's not the day.

[00:32:30] And sometimes people, they're committed. I'm driving up from Connecticut. I'm going to hike no matter what.

[00:32:35] Oh, absolutely. I agree. And that's why we think it's so important to try to get the information out there more broadly to have it available to people before they even get in their car or arrive at a trailhead.

[00:32:45] And definitely once they're at a trailhead before they've started hiking into what could be a dangerous situation. And we have, you know, we work very closely with a number of our partners on that.

[00:32:55] So the Appalachian Mountain Club, the Forest Service, as I mentioned, we actually have a joint internship with the Mount Washington Avalanche Center so that we can really coordinate some of our operations in wintertime.

[00:33:06] We work with New Hampshire Homeland Security and others as well to try to broaden that message, make sure it's getting out to people in the right fashion.

[00:33:15] And then are you, so this is your major fundraiser for the year. As far as your pipeline of capital improvements and projects that you have, is there anything big in the pipeline at this point?

[00:33:26] Like new equipment that you're working on or any repairs inside the building that you're hoping to get done? Yeah, we have a variety of projects we're working on. In particular right now, we were really fortunate, thanks to Senator Shaheen, to receive congressionally directed spending.

[00:33:43] That's going to allow us to replace our snowcat, which ensures that folks like Francis will actually be able to get to the summit in the wintertime. Along with all of the guests that we have that come up for trips, we do overnight edgy trips.

[00:33:54] We have climbing schools that bring up guests. We even bring up teachers for professional development. We're also going to be able to purchase with that LIDAR that we can put at the base of the mountain to have even more accurate forecasting and better sensing of the atmosphere.

[00:34:10] We'll be actually tripling the size of our Mount Washington regional masonnet. And so what that is, is a series of autonomous weather stations. Right now we have 18 of them in the White Mountains, five of which are on the auto road side of the mountain.

[00:34:26] This July and August, we're actually going to be putting five more on the cog side of the mountain, so on the western side. But thanks to both the federal grant we received and then Senator Shaheen's appropriated spending that I just mentioned,

[00:34:40] we're actually going to be adding 18 new stations, modernizing 11 of the existing stations that we have to upgrade their technology. And then eventually by four years from now, adding another 15 stations.

[00:34:54] We'll be probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 of these autonomous weather stations that are just so important because they provide real time data. Data that our forecasters can use to make everything that they do even more accurate.

[00:35:07] But also used for research, used for communities and businesses to be able to plan and think about how they make investments. So that's a really exciting project that we have going on right now.

[00:35:20] Stomp has talked about these masonettes before. You understand this a little bit better than I do, right? Well, it's pretty simple and explanatory. I think it just gives a more precise picture of what's happening at specific elevations.

[00:35:34] Just like you guys said, I actually rely on those probably a little more so than the Higher Summits forecast when I'm actually going out. I would love to see those more abundantly displaced out there. That's fantastic news.

[00:35:48] Yeah, I think a lot of people rely on them. One of the things we'll be doing is making all of the data even more readily available for the public on our website at mtwashington.org.

[00:35:57] But beyond that, right now a lot of them have temperature, they have pressure, they have wind speed and direction. We'll be adding new capabilities to them to be able to measure things like precipitation as well.

[00:36:09] Think about soil temperature and soil moisture. Even solar radiation will be a part of it. So that aids a variety of partners in their research and some of the operational things that we do. Can you add a flip-flop sensor onto the masonette system? I wish we could, yeah.

[00:36:29] And I will say as well, another partner that really uses those masonettes is the National Weather Service in Gray, Maine. Our masonettes really show where the freezing level is, right?

[00:36:38] So if they're forecasting rain versus snow in say southern New Hampshire or coastal Maine or something like that, our sensors are actually able to tell them exactly where that level is where the snow is transitioning to rain.

[00:36:48] They use this as well a few times out of the year at least. Yeah, I know Stomp has sort of given me a lesson on those but I'll have to check them out again. We'll put some information about the masonettes in the show notes.

[00:36:59] I actually had some questions about sort of the downtime. Drew seems like a nice guy and he doesn't seem like he's going to make you work constantly the whole time.

[00:37:08] So you've got a little bit of downtime to play with Nimbus the cat and then I'm sure that there's some cooking that goes on as well, right?

[00:37:15] Drew, can you talk a little bit about how do you keep it fun when you've got long shifts and everybody's sort of together and you've got to have that cohesion amongst the team? Well, as you could probably guess, the summit is really the heart of our organization.

[00:37:30] So I try to be up there as much as I can too. I'm frequently bringing our guests up, bringing our members, our donors, other VIPs to visit with folks like Francis because they're just intrigued by the things that Francis does up there.

[00:37:44] I can't speak to all of the fun but I know that the observers do get out and do a fair amount of hiking. They definitely like to get over to the lakes of the clouds hut and visit over there with some of the AMC staff.

[00:37:56] I think if I heard correctly, there's a Nintendo Switch as well. I don't know. Francis can say more. There is indeed. So we do play some intense games of Mario Kart quite a bit of the time, yeah. Especially after our shift when we're winding down.

[00:38:09] Yeah, things on the screen heat up a bit. Is there somebody that's like a big photographer? Like personally, I would be the photographer up there because you get some good opportunities to get some sunrise. We do have a photographer, our night observer on my shift, Ryan.

[00:38:24] He's been up there for about 19 years actually. So he knows all the great angles to take. I think he's figured out the best shots to take up there on the summit especially when you have the northern lights visible. He's usually super popular when he publishes those. Got it.

[00:38:39] And then is there any – I know climate change is always top of mind, but do you have any – I've seen some reports around the shifting of the seasons and the snowpack I think melting a little bit earlier and then the actual snow conditions pushing out.

[00:38:57] It seems like the non-snow season is widening a little bit maybe or shifting. Can you talk a little bit about that, Drew? Is there anything that you'd want to share with our listeners about that?

[00:39:07] Yeah. We've been a part of three studies that have taken place sort of over the last decade, decade plus looking at how temperature is changing on the summit in comparison to the valley.

[00:39:18] So in particular in Pinkham Notch where there's also a record that goes back a similar length of time to ours. And what they've seen on the summit in the most recent study that was published a few years ago

[00:39:29] is that temperature has changed and that it is statistically significant. And in particular that means that the snowpack has decreased. And as you were pointing out, the start of winter has been pushed back into the season and it has also led to spring starting sooner as well.

[00:39:48] And we actually have a really active research program in this area. One of our staff is actually looking to look at how rain on snow is becoming much more frequent, one of the changes that we see with climate.

[00:40:03] And if you compare that change to the valley, the temperature difference is a little bit less than what you see at Pinkham. You know about two degrees or so of warming in the valley, maybe about a degree or a little bit more on the summit.

[00:40:17] So that's what we're really seeing with climate. We actually have a really fantastic project that we're working on this year to begin producing an annual almanac that's going to look at the changes to the climatology year over year.

[00:40:31] And we're working with the AMC and with Hubbard Brook Ecosystem Study to be able to actually couple that with biologic data too. So look at the phenological changes and have key indicator species that we can pull out

[00:40:43] and use as examples of what's happening in the high alpine zone. Yeah, and I think I've noticed it just observing over the years. I always use Memorial Day weekend as sort of my baseline. I know, I think last year was like a later opening for Tarkamans.

[00:41:00] This year was a little bit later, but you definitely see the changes where it's a little bit warmer in the spring now. Yeah, definitely. If I can add on, I'd say our winters are becoming a lot like Swiss cheese.

[00:41:11] So we're still getting similar amounts of snow overall, but snow when it does fall, it's falling more heavily. And then it's able to melt about a week later.

[00:41:18] So our winters really exist on the backside of low pressures that are pulling down cold air for a couple of days. And then as soon as that effect is gone, we're back up into the near freezing range.

[00:41:29] So our snowpack is definitely a lot less stable and consistent on the summit. Have you guys been measuring CO2? We do not measure CO2, but the New Hampshire Department of Environmental Services measures it. So that's over on the state park side.

[00:41:45] And as you guys probably know, we're really close partners with Mount Washington State Park. In fact, our weather station is located inside their building. Nice. And just shifting to the Seek the Peak fundraiser here, so this is your main fundraiser for the year.

[00:41:59] Can you talk a little bit about your own participation? Are you hiking tomorrow or what's the plan for both of you? Or are you taking the auto road out? So I will actually be sitting at the education table. Okay.

[00:42:15] So I will be racing with probably all kinds of members of the public. In our observer gear will be one of our sort of fun challenges that we're doing. And the winner gets a Nimbus plushie. So yeah, I'll be running as fast as I can for that one.

[00:42:28] Nice. And Drew, are you getting out tomorrow? So I won't be hiking tomorrow, but my family, my daughter and my wife and I, we tend to hike pretty much every week if we can.

[00:42:39] So we've done our Seek the Peak hike already this previous week, and we plan to get out pretty shortly after again. I'll probably be rushing around tomorrow and doing my best to support our staff in the various areas where the event takes place.

[00:42:53] And also doing my best to welcome all of our guests and visitors who will be joining us. Awesome. Cool. Did I miss any questions, Tom? Yeah, I have one question. He always has one question.

[00:43:04] If it was really dark, snowy, sub-zero Mars temperature, and you heard a knock on the door on the tower, and it was this guy, would you really open the door or would you keep him out? I'm going to let Francis take that one. No, it's a no.

[00:43:24] What do you guys think? Would you keep him out freezing or would you let him in the tower? Let's hear it. It would never happen because I listened to the forecast. I wouldn't be up there in those conditions.

[00:43:35] And even if the worst did happen, as long as you could de-ice man, you're welcome. Or if you're good with a shovel. I would be the low man on the totem pole. Got to start somewhere. No, I'm just kidding. That's great. Awesome. Thank you guys. All right.

[00:43:49] Well, thank you so much. Anything else you want to cover with us? No, just thank you so much for being here to celebrate with us and thank you for having us on the podcast. Yeah, no, it's been a pleasure. Thank you guys. Yeah. Thank you guys. All right.

[00:44:02] What are we doing next, Tom? Do we have a... Yeah, let's hear it. Thank you so much, Francis and Drew. CS Coffee. Our podcast is supported by CS Instant Coffee, makers of eco-friendly instant coffee. It's perfect for anyone who loves the outdoors as much as we do.

[00:44:26] Great for backpacking, day hiking, camping, and even at home. Learn more and get in touch at csinstant.coffee on the web or email us at info at csinstant.coffee. I think we have a rep from EMS. Yeah? Oh boy. What do you think? Darryl? Hi.

[00:44:56] Never forget a face. Come on up, brother. So, Darryl's joining us every time we do a live event. Stomp's already yelling at you. So, every time we do a live event, our friend Darryl from EMS joins us. So, welcome, Darryl. It's nice to be here. All is good.

[00:45:13] All right. So, I wanted to share with you my stupid hiker trick. So, I've been showing everybody this. Like everyone complains about deer flies and bugs. Gross.

[00:45:22] And we always tell people that you can buy these little things on maybe, I don't know, maybe EMS will start selling them, but you can buy them online. And the deer flies stick to them and it doesn't bother you when you go hiking. Have you ever seen these?

[00:45:35] I have not seen them, but I'll tell you it's not a stupid trick if it works. It is. It is, yeah. It's actually not a stupid trick. It's a tricky trick. A sticky trick. A sticky trick. That's how we should market it. The sticky trick. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:45:50] Now, so we can edit this out if you say anything that you're not supposed to say here. Fair? Yes. So, we're a little bit on the hot seat here, but Eastern Mountain Sports has been making the news lately. We're a very popular organization to talk about.

[00:46:03] So, I was just talking about you guys the other day because the store in North Conway, if you're looking for winter snowshoes or traction, I heard that the Cthulhu Micro Spikes are like 60% off. 60% off. It comes to like $30. It's crazy. $30 for Micro Spikes. Yeah, it's a crazy deal.

[00:46:20] Yeah, so there's deals to be had. So, in bad times, there's opportunity. Yeah, no, just trust me. I picked up two pairs of those spikes myself. You did? Oh, yeah. At that price? Come on. Perfect.

[00:46:35] Now, are you at liberty to sort of say what's the latest that's going on or do we not have to? I wouldn't be at liberty, but I can say that I personally plan to be working for EMS for the foreseeable future.

[00:46:46] And I personally see the company moving forward after this is done. Excellent. Yeah. That's good news. And what have you been up to personally yourself? Have you been getting out there hiking and going crazy?

[00:46:58] I wouldn't call myself going crazy, but I was able to get up to the Adirondacks a few times. Oh, nice. I did Whiteface and Esther, ran up the back face of Hurricane, which was a lot of fun. Been running up Kirosage South a couple of times through Lincoln.

[00:47:14] So it's like nine miles, a little over 2,000 feet. Really nice trail run. That's awesome. And then are you still traveling around? So you're getting out to New York, of course. Yes. So do you have any plans to do anything crazy in the Whites at this point?

[00:47:29] I always have plans. In fact, I was just talking to someone and we're looking maybe to do Goyard on the Twins and maybe even Owl's Head. Okay. That's good. Now, do you always stick to the trails or do you do the bushwhacking stuff that Stomp does?

[00:47:43] When I hike with other people, I tend to stick to the trails. When I'm out by myself, especially in the Adirondacks where it's very easy to bushwhack up stuff, I tend to like to go a little off trail. Okay.

[00:47:55] And now we're here for Seek the Peak, which is Mount Washington. If you were going to give advice to people that are hiking Mount Washington, what route would you take to go up there? There's two.

[00:48:05] I think my favorite that I've ever done was up Lion's Head, down Boot Spur. I absolutely love Boot Spur and I think it's a highly underrated way to go down. Yeah. And we just talked about that. I recommend going down Boot Spur every time.

[00:48:19] I was talking about how you have to watch the vegetation, but you can rock hop out to the different viewpoints to take photos right out into Tarkaman, which is gorgeous. Yeah.

[00:48:29] I don't think a lot of people go down Boot Spur because they either go up Lion's Head down Tops or up Ammo down Valley Way. And Boot Spur kind of gets left off.

[00:48:37] It's like a mile more maybe, but the views are spectacular and it's just a really slept on trail in my opinion for people who don't know about it. Yeah, I agree. Is there anybody that's hiking Boot Spur tomorrow?

[00:48:49] Can you raise your hand if you go on up or down Boot Spur? Okay, we've got some smart people. Did you just decide that listening to us or did you already have that planned? All right, so you guys are smart. Oh, Jeff, I didn't even notice you there.

[00:49:02] All right, now this guy is an expert here. There we go. Full strength coffee in the house. So question for you about gear. What is the go to gear that you're looking at or you have any recommendations that you would give to the listeners?

[00:49:23] Oh man, go to gear right now. Are you looking at new backpacks or are you looking at shoes? I just got a light AF pack and I absolutely love it.

[00:49:35] So if you haven't heard of light AF, they're based out of Jersey and they do like custom packs, you know, like Z packs and that kind of stuff. Very lightweight. It's Dyneema fabric? Dyneema backpack. It's literally a Miami Vice style pack.

[00:49:49] It's got the neon and all that stuff going on. Absolutely love it. Awesome. Well, I'll check those out. I'll put those in the show notes. I've heard of it before but I've never shopped around.

[00:49:59] They make really good stuff and not to be an ad for light AF but you call them up and whatever you want to do, they're like yeah, we can do that. We'll make that work. You want that a little shorter or that a little longer?

[00:50:09] Yeah, we'll figure that out. Okay, yeah. That's good to know. So light AF. Stomp, what do you think AF stands for? Don't get me in trouble. This is a family show. As a feather. Yes, as a feather. Very good. So Stomp, did I miss any questions for Darrell?

[00:50:24] So Darrell, I think you're our most frequent guest. Oh God, at this point I might be. Do I get like a punch card where I get like a free something if I go on five times? You can have a free patch. Oh, there you go. That works.

[00:50:34] Oh yes, of course. Please take one. All right. Yeah, we always appreciate you joining us for a convo. Any tips on safe hiking in hot weather? Take more water than you think but not too much water.

[00:50:48] I know people that will do a five-mile hike and doing four liters because they're like this is what I need. Look at water sources. Bring something like a Sawyer squeeze or a BeFree or something that will help you take less water.

[00:51:04] But if you need it, you'll have it. A really good tip is take your bladder the night before. Fill it about a third of the way. Lay it down so the nozzle's up in the freezer. Freeze that bad boy. Put it in your back.

[00:51:23] Fill it up the next morning. Put it in your backpack and you have a nice thing of ice right on your back the whole day. That's a good tip. That is a good tip. And I also have my three-liter bladder.

[00:51:36] My tip for a bladder is fill the three-liter bladder up with ice and then put a beer. You get a can of beer and then you put the beer inside the bladder and then you fill the bladder up with water.

[00:51:51] And then you've got a beer that's cold the whole time you're hiking. You're drinking your water through the bladder and then when you get to the summit, you can crack open the beer. It's like a built-in summit beer. It is, yeah. Perfect. It's perfect. That's my system.

[00:52:05] But I think if you're hiking Tuckerman tomorrow, a couple of water sources. Obviously, when you get to Hermit Lake, there's the pump and then you've got Lakes of the Clouds. You've got the summit observatory. I feel like ammoniac, you get to that waterfall at the bottom.

[00:52:22] Yeah, you'll have that there. There are water sources so you don't have to go too crazy. But I'd say maybe two liters. And always camel up. Camel up before. Drink a ton of water before when you get to the summit.

[00:52:33] Camel up at the summit and that will take you a long way. Do you have any powder or tablets or anything that you recommend for electrolytes? I like the Noon. The Noons work really good for me. I like the flavors. They dissolve really good.

[00:52:49] So I use the Noon powder and tablets. I love those. They're almost like a supplement for me now at this point, like daily. They're so good. Stomp loves those. There's a lot to love with the Noon. There is. All right, Darrell.

[00:53:04] Well, thank you so much for joining us. It's always a pleasure to see you. One of my favorite things. I appreciate you sitting down too because you always make me feel short. Let's hear it for Darrell from EMS. All right, thank you.

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[00:54:37] And let them know that Mike and Stomp sent you. All right, next we have Peter from Oboz. Come on over, we'd love to chat with you about what you guys have. Right next to us. You can use that microphone, right? Yeah, perfect. Thank you, Peter. All right, Peter.

[00:54:59] I didn't bring sneakers. If you notice, I don't have sneakers. We can set you up. That's a problem, right? I want to use your insoles, but I got a problem. I don't have sneakers. Well, we can set you up. We have some demo shoes right over there.

[00:55:15] I didn't do this on purpose, I swear. So Peter, why don't you introduce yourself and talk a little bit about Oboz. Hi there, I'm Peter from Oboz Footwear, and my job is education and outreach for the company.

[00:55:27] I travel all around North America in our big green Oboz van, and I visit stores and do events like this, and it's fantastic. It's a great gig. What is your background that you became an ambassador for Oboz? Actually, I was a middle school teacher for 33 years. Really? Wow.

[00:55:45] I worked for EMS, and that was my start in the outdoor industry. When I moved to Montana, my manager, who was all of 24 years old, gave me a call to the REI in Bozeman, and got me a job, and I was working there,

[00:56:05] and that's where I met John Connolly, who was the gentleman who started Oboz. How did you end up from Montana coming out to New Hampshire? Like I said, I travel all over the country, so I'm in that big green van that's out in the parking lot.

[00:56:20] So New Hampshire is not your home base. No, no, no. All over North America. Oh, wow. Now, do you get to go out and hike when you travel around? You test out the new shoes?

[00:56:29] Absolutely. I try to do at least one or two hikes on every trip that I do. Yesterday, I found this great little swim hole off of Route 2. I was hiking along the river there, and there was this wonderful spot that I'd never seen before,

[00:56:44] so it was pretty cool. Yeah, there's a lot of good secret spots. Nobody there was incorrect. There was not a single person there but me. It was fantastic. Awesome. So you have sneakers and then you also have the insoles. I've used different insole products before,

[00:56:59] but can you explain the... So they're Trail Runners, I'm assuming, is the main product? Actually, no. We're a hiking shoe company. Hiking shoes. So you don't call yourself Trail Runners. Yeah. These that I'm wearing and the ones that are over there for demo

[00:57:11] are not Trail Runners. They are actually hiking shoes. How do you differentiate between the hiking shoes and Trail Runners? Good question. So a hiking shoe is meant for the hiking stride, which is generally a heel strike. You're landing on your heel, you're rolling over, and you're towing off.

[00:57:30] If you're Trail Running, you're more running on your forefoot as opposed to your heel. And so the shoes are built to land on your heel. Got it. But yours are... So I think of the traditional hiking shoes as the Keens and things like that

[00:57:45] that are a little bit... They're a wider toe, but they're a heavier material. But I feel like I looked at your hiking shoes and they look like they're a lighter material. Well, some of them are. Some of them are like the Keens.

[00:57:58] We do the Bridger, which is a fantastic shoe. It's leather. We also do the Sawtooth X, which is a leather and synthetic shoe as well. So we have a lot of your old-school kind of hikers. And then we have some more lighter, faster things like this.

[00:58:15] This is the Katabatic Wind that I'm wearing. And we do shoes like this as well. Excellent. And then as far as the insoles go, what's the benefit? So for many years I was a runner, and I had problems with Achilles tendonitis

[00:58:33] and IT band, and I did use insoles previously to get lift. And I found some of the hiking shoes and the trail shoes that we see, they have that zero drop. And I do hear people, they're like, oh, I tried these new shoes, other brands,

[00:58:47] and I got Achilles tendonitis or I've got IT band issues and things like that. Can you talk a little bit about, like, if I have those issues, which are usually repetitive injuries, does Lobos, is that a product where you feel like you can help with that?

[00:59:01] So yes. First I'm going to say I'm not a doctor. Yeah, of course. But I am a shoe specialist, and fit is the most important thing. And most people, we've been measuring folks here all day,

[00:59:17] and more than 80% of them that have come in here are wearing the wrong size shoe. And most people don't understand that it's really critical to measure your arch length, not just your foot length. And that makes a difference because any of these hiking shoes, running shoes,

[00:59:36] they're all built to flex in a certain place. And if your foot is not matching the place that it flexes, you could be causing all kinds of damage, plantar fasciitis, bunions, all sorts of things. So measuring arch length is critical, and that's what we do.

[00:59:55] And having an insole, and all of our shoes come with an insole. They're standard inside the shoe. And we have a variety of insole types for the kind of shoe that it is.

[01:00:06] Like this is a fast trail shoe, so we have a lighter, more flexible insole in it. Some of our more old-school hikers have a more stout insole that's a little bit more motion controlling. So we believe that you need to be in a neutral position,

[01:00:27] and that you have a nice good heel cup, and a sculpted midfoot so that your foot is closer in the middle. And then a nice wide toe box so your foot can spread and flex. So all of those things go into it.

[01:00:46] And then shoe tying is really critical as well. A lot of people don't understand how to tie their shoes, or that there's more than one way to tie a shoe. You would be horrified by me because I keep my shoes tied the whole time,

[01:00:58] and I just slide them right in. I never untie my shoes. So it's pretty amazing. Just changing the laces just a little bit can make a tremendous difference in how you feel in the shoe and how you can mitigate certain issues.

[01:01:13] So of those 80% of the people that have wrong size, is it like the shoes are too small or too big? Both. But mostly too small. Really? Mostly too small. A lot of people have an arch length that's longer than their foot length.

[01:01:29] An example is you might have a size 9 foot, but your arch length might be a size 11. What that means, oh look I have the bones here. Oh here we go, we've got a foot here. Can you get me the... Somebody literally just dropped off somebody's bony foot.

[01:01:48] This is getting interesting. Yeah, I've got a skeleton foot in my hand here. And I might need somebody to hold the mic for me so I can do the demonstration. Anyway, I need that. You may have to hold the mic for him. Hold on a second.

[01:02:04] Keep it close to him. All right, so here's a foot, and most of your hiking and running shoes are going to have structures and things in the shoe that cause it to flex at a certain place.

[01:02:20] And what you want to do is you want to make sure that your foot bends in the same place that the shoe bends. So here's a case where the person is a size 9 foot. They'll fit physically in the size 9 shoe,

[01:02:36] but their arch length, which is the distance from your heel to the metatarsal head right here, and that arch length might be an 11. They might have short toes or a flatter foot or something like that.

[01:02:49] And so what's happening is their foot's way forward in the shoe like this, and so as they try to walk, the shoe is forced to bend. And you can see what's happening with this skeleton foot. It's forcing to bend up here on the bridge of the foot

[01:03:06] rather than at the flex point where their metatarsals end. And then you've got all kinds of issues that can develop. Yeah, you can see. You can see what happens, right? So that heel is going to kick up.

[01:03:15] If people have a hole in the back of their shoe in the heel pocket there, guarantee they're wearing the wrong size shoe because what's happening is their heel is kicking up. Uh-oh. I may be in trouble.

[01:03:26] How many people in the room here have a hole in the back of their shoe? There's no shoe on the wall that should ever do that. Uh-oh. I think I'm in trouble. And the other thing that's really wild about that is people, that heel slip that they're getting,

[01:03:42] people often think when they try a pair of shoes on in the store if their heel is slipping out of the shoe, they think that it's too big because their foot's popping out. But what really is the issue is that it's usually too small

[01:03:58] and their foot is being levered out of the shoe because it's being forced to bend in a different place than it's meant to bend. Okay. So that's what's happening. All right. Now, what would you say to like, okay,

[01:04:10] I have some of these backpacking thru-hiker guys that I know that are like, okay, this is like the lightest shoe. I want the lightest, most flexible shoe I can possibly get. Now your shoes, I think, are probably a little bit sturdier.

[01:04:22] What is your argument for saying take a look? Well, so, you know, it's all about the individual person. You know, we do have lighter and flexible shoes. Yeah, I mean, the shoes you're wearing right now, like I look at those on the surface, I say,

[01:04:36] those look like any trail runners I would see. Yeah, they are lighter. You know, we have more stout shoes as well. It's really about what the person needs and what they're comfortable in. Studies show that you can have, you know, you could be in the right size shoe,

[01:04:56] but it doesn't feel comfortable to you, and you could hurt yourself in it, you know. So if you're comfortable with soft and flexible and all of that, that's good for you. Some people, though, need more support than they might want to admit.

[01:05:13] You know, if you have issues like plantar fasciitis or you're rolling in, you're pronating an awful lot, you probably should have a more stout shoe that holds you and keeps you from fatiguing and, you know, things like that.

[01:05:29] Okay, so if anybody's listening, they can go over to your table. You'll give them the measurement. You're going to have a bunch of people there that says, oh, I'm a size 9, and you're going to tell them, no, you're a size 8 or you're a size 10.

[01:05:40] He might be in the room. I had a gentleman here before who was telling me he was a size 10 1⁄2, maybe an 11, and when I measured him, he was a size 13. Really? Yeah. Wow. And we put him in a size 13 shoe, and he was blown away and like, wow.

[01:05:56] All right, well, I may come over afterwards, and we'll have to test me out and see what's going on with my feet. Stomp has like a – his second toe is longer than his big toe, and his feet are disgusting. What does that mean?

[01:06:10] Does that just mean he's just like deficient? No, it's just there's different regions of the world your heritage comes from. Okay, all right. But you want to make sure that when you measure your foot, you're measuring that longest toe, not the shortest one.

[01:06:25] Yeah, I noticed Stomp has a huge space between his two toes. His feet are disgusting, so I won't send him over. But he wrote me a note here. I'm supposed to like be smooth, but it's something Riley, the local Oboes Hero plus seek the people.

[01:06:40] What am I supposed to do? That is the next guest. Oh, that's the next guest. Correct. Who is this? So can you help me out here? Yeah. I'm dying over here, Stomp. No. Yeah, if you guys are good, we'll get the next guest up. This is fantastic.

[01:06:54] And I'm going to come over and get my foot measured, and then how can people buy your product if they want to buy shoes? We have some local stores here in town. They can go to EMS, they can go to REI, they can go to Synergy,

[01:07:10] Ragged Mountain up a little bit. That's another great place to go. And then if we see you driving around in the group, so we can also look for the green van. You can't buy them from me, but you can also buy them directly from our website as well.

[01:07:22] But we can chase you down and say, hey, I know a nice swimming hole. Let's go jump in. Absolutely. All right. All right. Cheers, guys. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Awesome. Let's hear it. All right. Thank you, Oboz.

[01:07:38] And let's have a special round of applause for the Slasher Dancers up front here. Woo! They're doing a great job keeping everybody entertained. Where'd you learn how to dance like that? That's amazing. All right. So next up we have Riley, the local Oboz hero,

[01:07:58] and also Seek the Peak steward. Thank you so much for joining us. We're going to have a great conversation. All right, Riley. I met you earlier. So you're friends with Mel, right? I am very good friends with Mel. Very fortunate for that friendship. All right.

[01:08:12] Have you hiked with her? Many a times. Many times. With and without Floki. Oh, boy. Have you ever got to carry Floki? Yes. In person. Not usually on the hiking trail. Oh, but not on the hiking trail? No.

[01:08:24] Does she let anybody carry Floki except for her on the hiking trail? I haven't had to carry Floki, but I'm sure if push came to shove, Floki wouldn't mind riding on anybody's back. Okay. All right. That's cool. So what makes you the local Oboz hero?

[01:08:39] So I got nominated by Mel and my mother through this opportunity at Oboz where I basically get free gear for the year. Okay. So I'm a New Hampshire local. I live in southern New Hampshire, but I spend more often than not

[01:08:58] the majority of the week up here in the White Mountains. I'm a runner, skier, hiker, backpacker, all of that all into one little bundle of a human. All right. So nothing comes for free. No, yes. What do you have to do in order to maintain your hero status?

[01:09:15] So throughout the year, I was just interviewed and it just got published recently kind of about my story and what got me into the mountains and who I am and what I do for work. So what did get you in the mountains?

[01:09:27] Have you been doing this a long time or is this relatively new? This winter will mark four or five years. Four or five years. I'm 26, so fairly fresh in my life. Like I haven't never hiked when I was a young child. I was always skiing.

[01:09:40] What was the switch that all of a sudden you said, I'm going to start doing this? So I work in a psychiatric inpatient unit as a mental health counselor and I was walking about 10 miles a day with a really sick patient who was a runner.

[01:09:54] And I eventually took to road running and then learned about the Alps and all different mountain running and it brought me to the White Mountains. Yeah, and then when you go into the mountains, are you still running or do you just more,

[01:10:11] do you slow down and do the hikes? A lot of power hiking and running. I run a lot of the races that White Mountain Endurance Races puts on. I've ran every single one of their races. So yeah. That's great. And then do you get out running?

[01:10:26] Like how many miles a week do you typically do? Anywhere from 30 to 80 miles a week. All right, so you're legit. Are you doing a lot of road races still? No, I ran Chicago last year. I did the Jigger Johnson, which is occurring right now.

[01:10:41] What are you doing here? I'm pacing a friend tomorrow night through the night over the Osceolas. And is the friend doing the 100 miles? She's doing the 50. It's her first 50 miler, but it actually ends up being like 57 miles. It's pretty brutal.

[01:10:55] I have a couple of friends that are doing the 100 mile today. All right, and when you're pacing somebody, what's the difference between that and are you carrying more gear for them? So that's called mulling. We're not allowed to mull. Oh, you can't.

[01:11:08] No, so I'm required to carry the same amount of gear that they're carrying, but I'll have fresh legs. So my friend Anna, who's running it, she's a local. She'll be at mile 40-something at that point or 30-something. Okay. So she's going to be tired.

[01:11:23] It's going to be dark. It's going to be cold. So my main purpose is to keep her moving and get the ball rolling and provide some positive motivation. So I've paced people before, and I think I'm the worst pacer because I just started yapping all about me.

[01:11:41] And I'm like, oh, let's talk about me. And I feel like the person I was pacing didn't want to talk and I didn't pick up on their cues because that's just the way it is. So do you have a whole list of topics that you're going to cover?

[01:11:53] Or do you know to shut up when she's doing like she's not in the mood? So we have a- And Mel's shaking her head, by the way, because apparently she's not a good pacer either. So we have a playlist going that I'll add to before I leave tomorrow.

[01:12:08] But I'm going to meet Anna at the hairpin turn after she climbs Hancock Notch. So I'm going to meet her where she's at, wherever she's feeling. I'm going to bring whatever vibe she needs, whether it's just keep me moving

[01:12:23] or I want to talk about what I've gone through because you've already done this before. So I'm there to provide whatever experience she needs. And you're going up, you're starting, your pacing is going to start up East Osceola. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, that's a tough climb.

[01:12:37] Oh, boy. Good luck. Yeah. She's going to be in a mood. Yeah. I was in a dark spot when I was in that point of the race last year. But kept moving and I finished. When you do these long races, do you stay disciplined on your fueling?

[01:12:51] Like that's my biggest problem is like I wouldn't- I just get in the zone and I stop eating. Yeah, my watch is good enough. I have a reminder like every 30 minutes. I make sure I get something to snack on and usually candy or one of those fancy gels.

[01:13:05] Awesome. And then do you tend to get out over the weekends or you do midweek hikes? Because I work in health care, I'm very fortunate that I have, you know, like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays off or Thursday, Fridays. And I have every other weekend off. So it depends.

[01:13:18] Like this is my weekend off. So I'm getting paid to do this today because I took a personal day. Oh, nice. Yeah. Awesome. Do you have a particular brand of oboes that you recommend? So I'm wearing the Kabatic Winds, which are their new hiker shoe.

[01:13:33] I have ran in them a little bit. I like them. They're comfortable. They're not- I like a wide toe box. They're not very wide, but they do what they're supposed to do. They're supposed to be a light hiker that get you up and down the mountain safely.

[01:13:46] The grip is nice. I went up self mode a couple weeks ago in them and they felt great and I'm still wearing them. So- Now you look like you- Like just looking at you, he looks fast.

[01:13:59] So like I would say like a lot of people might be like, well, I don't want to feel like I'm bringing- I'm slowing you down. Do you run into that a lot or are you pretty good about just telling people

[01:14:08] like it's no big deal and I'll just hike your pace? A lot of the training I do is like time on feet so it doesn't matter what pace I'm going at. Okay. That's good. And then do you feel like you have grand aspirations

[01:14:20] to do any large crazy hikes outside of the whites? Like there's the Northeast Ultra 8, which is interesting, but to get to the Adirondacks, that's a hike to get there than to do the Great Range Traverse. It's on my bucket list,

[01:14:37] but in October I'm planning on running my first 100 miler. Your first what? 100 miler. Okay. Yeah, down in West Virginia. All right. So when do you really start ramping up the training? 1-0-0 Mike. Yeah, 100. That's crazy. When do you start ramping up the training for that?

[01:14:52] Training started last month. Last month? Yeah, the middle of the month or yeah, the beginning of this month actually. I have a race, the Ragged 50K, which ends off of Ragged Mountain. That'll be a training run, just go for 30 miles and see how I feel.

[01:15:08] Do you feel like one of the issues I used to have, and I had injury issues when I would do big miles, but also my wife would just get sick of it. She'd just be like, it's consuming your time and you're just letting other things slip.

[01:15:23] So how do you balance that focus of like, I got to commit to doing 50, 60 miles a week. And then I also have to maintain my personal life so that the people in it don't hate me. Yeah, so it's really difficult.

[01:15:36] I work 3 to 1130, like 3 p.m. to 1130 p.m. So often a lot of my runs, especially this hot weather, I run after work. So I run at midnight to 1 a.m. Sometimes it really varies. But when I start school back up in September

[01:15:50] because I'm going to be a nurse, that balance is definitely a lot trickier. Well, we wish you good luck in all your endeavors. And then it's, what's her name? Ann that you're pacing? Anna. Anna, pacing. So we all appreciate you stepping in and helping out.

[01:16:06] That is going to be a tough area, like just going up to East Osceola after she's been doing all those miles. Yeah, for sure. That's like the last big climb and then they climb over Tecumseh and finish in Waterville Valley. It's a beautiful course. Awesome.

[01:16:19] Do I recommend it? Maybe. Yeah, yeah, it will test you. Now, are you a social media person? Do you have a big presence on social media? Not big. Maybe some people will say it's big. How do we find you on Instagram? It's my first name and last name.

[01:16:33] So Riley McGurn, M-C-G-U-R-N. Oh, okay, I know the name. Yeah. I know the name. So, okay. So we'll put your Instagram in our show notes and you're probably going to get at least like two new followers out of it. I'll take whatever I can get. Awesome.

[01:16:48] All right, Riley, the Oboes Hero. Yes, and Seek the Peak Steward. Thank you, Riley. Oh yeah, that's right. You're the Seek the Peak. So are you like, I talked to Fawn earlier. Like she's like doing her own thing. She's going ahead.

[01:16:59] Are you going to be like around like primetime? So because I'm pacing Anna, I'm on call all day tomorrow basically. So I was hoping to make the event, but I don't think I'm going to make the after event. But yeah, I was thinking of doing

[01:17:13] maybe run up tucks a little bit tomorrow morning just to get the legs warm. Okay, you'll see some people coming up and down. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, for Seek the Peak as a steward, I kind of share the awareness of what the observatory does

[01:17:26] and also share my story and who I am and what the mountains mean for me. Awesome. Yeah. Awesome. Look at this guy. He's like, I'm just going to run up tucks and then I'm going to go do East Osceola all the way over there. No biggie.

[01:17:38] It's nice to be like young and fit. I love being able to, you know, show my patients what you can actually do when life's okay. Right, yeah, because I think like for me, I know personally like the running, that time in the morning,

[01:17:52] I only do like 45 minutes or an hour in the morning. But like I feel like that just puts me in a zone where all right, I've hit the reset button and I'm ready to like deal with a stressful day. Yeah, be a human. It's hard to human sometimes.

[01:18:04] So taking a little bit of time for yourself is definitely worth it. Awesome. Well, thanks for all the support and the volunteering and it was great to meet you. Yeah, absolutely. I've seen you on social media. I just, I didn't put the last name together. Yeah, no worries.

[01:18:16] Yeah. I think you might've seen him on Top Gun Maverick too. You were in Top Gun Maverick? Maybe a little too young. Yeah, he was definitely in that movie. Oh wow. Were you an extra or were you like on the cast? Thank you guys. All right, thank you.

[01:18:34] All right, so just a little- I'm never getting out of here. Stomp's got a list of like 50 guests. So just to refresh here, we are Mike and Stomp from the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast. We're a hiking podcast that essentially strives

[01:18:53] to have people learn the safety required to get out there and recreate safely in the mountains. And it's really been a pleasure to be here tonight. We have a few more interviews, I think, tonight. And I just honestly can't believe this weather.

[01:19:11] This is such a perfect, perfect moment just to ingrain into your memory. Look at this, the sun's out, kids are running around, having a great time. It's just absolutely beautiful. So we're glad to be here. So yeah, let's bring up Mel. Is Mel in the house?

[01:19:29] Mel is another favorite of ours, the listener's lover when she joins us. You may know her from Mel and Floki fame, the beautiful cat that loves to hike the 4,000 footers and crush peaks. So Mel will join us. Hello again, Mel. Hello.

[01:19:51] We do have stickers up here if anybody's interested and little postcards if you want to try to find the podcast. We are weekly, we're out every Friday morning. And we try to interview a whole bunch of different random people and celebrities

[01:20:06] and just regular folks and all kinds of people that are just working behind the scenes to make this such a thriving, vibrant community for hiking. And we talk about the search and rescue community too at times and it's just great. It's great. Welcome, Mel.

[01:20:24] Hi, how are you guys? We're doing well, we're doing well. So for the listeners that aren't familiar with Mel, Mel is famous in the area. She hikes with her cat Floki. My cat is famous. Yes, your cat is famous. Yes, your cat is famous.

[01:20:37] And you've hiked the 4,000 footers with Floki and now you have a new dog. I'm disappointed you didn't bring the dog. What's the dog's name? His name is Willard. Willard, yeah. You didn't bring him tonight? He's not allowed. Oh, he's not allowed. All right, well.

[01:20:50] We're the one brewery in the world that doesn't let dogs in. That's okay, I get it. That's okay. So all right, so Mel, the last time we talked to you was I think at Reckless and I think you were sort of

[01:21:00] right in the prime time of all the Mel Floki media stuff and all that. Yes, and we had the suedo of Floki. Yes, yeah, exactly. But since then you've had a little injury, so I see that your ankle is wrapped up. I did. It's doing better.

[01:21:15] I traversed the Franconia Ridge and happened to be standing on top of Haystack and was taking a step off of the summit and there was a loose boulder and I wound up breaking my ankle. Were you coming up falling waters and heading across or did you already?

[01:21:34] I already did the traverse, so I had to go down falling waters. And I knew it wasn't in good shape, so that's why we wanted to kind of go down instead of up and I knew it would be easier than trying to maneuver with Willard.

[01:21:48] It was his first big mountain. Oh, so Willard was with you too? He was and he pulled us up and across and he was so good on the way down. And then, yeah, so it just unfortunately happened

[01:21:59] and I got down and then I wound up getting it checked out and well, here we are. Yeah, yeah, and then are you getting back out there now? I am. So just small stuff for now. Tomorrow, instead of climbing Washington like I normally do,

[01:22:12] I'm just going to do Black Cap, which is a local mountain here in town. Oh, yeah, that's perfect. So Floki and I will be going up that with a couple friends and then I'll be heading on up to the Expo after.

[01:22:21] All right, so Hurricane Mountain Road and then you just... Yes. Awesome. That's great. Yep, right up there. It's gorgeous. I mean, it gives you an incredible view for not much effort. Yeah, it's about a mile. We've talked about Black Cap before. Matter of fact, that whole area,

[01:22:34] the Green Hills behind Tranmore is a good location. What I've been doing a lot is hiking behind the Walmart into the Redstone Quarry as well. Oh, it's really cool. Awesome, yeah. Yeah, there's all kinds of abandoned buildings and you can get up to like some cliffs and stuff

[01:22:48] if you bushwhack a little bit and it's just gorgeous out there. Yeah, yeah, so Redstone Quarry is behind the Walmart in North Conway if you haven't been there. And it has like that little pond there looks like

[01:22:59] it looks like a set of a movie, like Goonies or something. Yes, and that, yeah, essentially was the actual quarry and then you can still see like some of the old equipment and stuff around. Yeah, yeah, it's very good there. So, all right. It's really cool.

[01:23:12] So, you're basically easing your way back. Now, how is Floki... The thing that most people are going to want to know is how is Floki managing the little brother? Well, it depends on the day. Some days she likes to sit on the table

[01:23:26] and swat him as he walks by and other days she shows him who's boss. Yeah, I mean... So, it really depends on... Yeah, and I mean, I don't know Willard but like I've seen pictures of him and my vibe is that Willard thinks that him and Floki

[01:23:37] are like best friends immediately. I think he hopes that eventually that's going to happen and he just keeps trying. Yeah, but he doesn't realize that Floki's a cat and does cat things. No, he doesn't. He doesn't know. Yeah. I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful she'll warm up.

[01:23:50] I know when we did go for the one hike that we did together over the winter they were great in the car together and they were great on the trail together. But if you put them in their own safe space at home

[01:24:01] I think that might be the thing that keeps... I'm not sure. We'll see. Yeah, now logistically are you... So, you've got Floki in the backpack and then you've got Willard on a leash? Yes. Or are you bringing extra people to help out with Willard?

[01:24:14] So, Willard, I have a training caller for that has like... If he gets too far for me I can call him back with that if he can't hear me. Yeah. I think on the more populated trails I will absolutely have him on a leash.

[01:24:27] Not because I don't trust him but because I don't know what the other people's dogs are going to do. And especially Floki. So, we'll see. We'll see. The stuff that I do close to home he'll probably be off leash. That's what he's been all this time.

[01:24:41] We kind of just trained him off leash but he doesn't mind the leash when he is on it. What's the advice for people that have younger dogs? I know there's rules about you can't have them hiking at a certain age until their bone plates connect in the training.

[01:24:58] How does that all work? Willard is not a large breed dog. So, it doesn't really matter as much. It matters to a point. I wouldn't take my 8-year-old up Mount Washington for her first hike. It's that kind of mentality.

[01:25:11] So, when we went in for one of his shot visits I questioned, like, hey, he's been hiking with me all this time. Do you think that he could sustain this? And they were like, oh yeah, no, that's fine.

[01:25:25] As long as you don't take him up Washington as his first hike. It's more the large breed dogs from my understanding and from what our vet told us. Obviously, every dog as an 8-week-old puppy you're not going to take out on the mountains.

[01:25:38] You have to build them up especially with their padding and yes, the bones and the growth plates and everything. But if you are consistently out with them and working with them on the trail supposedly that is supposed to be okay.

[01:25:50] This is all new for me because 15 years ago was the last time I had a puppy and there were no studies done and nobody knew any about that. Obviously, I didn't take her out when she was 8 weeks old but she was with me from, you know.

[01:26:03] And then you're keeping them on a leash and then letting Willard basically just run forward a little bit and then practicing recalls? So, we're practicing recall a lot. We're practicing healing. Instead of saying heal, we say stay with me and so he'll stay next to us.

[01:26:21] So, he's learning that and obviously he's very treat motivated so he's making our job a little bit easy as long as we have the treats but he's still learning. He's probably about 7 months now. So, when you're going by another dog or another human

[01:26:35] you basically got the treat right there and you're trying to get his attention? I do and we have him on a leash. We just try really hard to redirect his attention to us. Obviously, he doesn't want that. He wants to go play with the other dog.

[01:26:47] So, we're just trying to learn his triggers and making sure that we're working with him correctly to hopefully help us have a good day out there. Nice. So, you're relearning a new skill? I am. Yes, it's been a long time.

[01:27:01] Cool. And then how long do you think it'll be before you're fully healed? Up to a year, unfortunately. Oh, jeez. You really did it this time, huh? I did. Fortunately, I did not break my tibia. But the break itself caused a joint injury.

[01:27:20] So, I had to have a separate implant other than the plate and screws called a tight rope to bring all my ligaments and tendons back in with the joint. So, it's like a Cindy Osmotic injury is what they call it. So, unfortunately, I have that going for me.

[01:27:36] Now, we always talk about like, oh, if we get injured, there's no way I'm calling search and rescue. I did not call. So, you're sitting up there on Haystack and you're like, this is a bad one.

[01:27:45] Yes. Well, I don't… I mean, I think in my gut, I knew that it was really bad. But you could keep… Did you stop at all? I always tell people, like, if you think you've really hurt yourself…

[01:27:55] No, I had to stop because I fell. The outside of my foot touched the outside of my leg. Like, I literally folded it in half. Oh, jeez. Oh, wow. I have all these autoimmune stuff. So, a lot of my ligaments and tendons are pretty stretchy anyway.

[01:28:09] So, for me to roll something is not that abnormal, obviously, as we all know. I'm not the gracefulest person in the world. But I knew, but I wanted to try to get down. I've done search and rescue. I did it for a very long time.

[01:28:25] I know how long it's going to take them to get to me. I literally was on the top of Haystack. So, they had 4,000 feet. That's like three miles. Three miles, literally, up the trail that's in a really horrible condition.

[01:28:37] And so, you know, I looked at my significant other, Brent. He used to be a mountaineer. So, I was just like, you know… He's like, what do you want to do, Mel? I'm like, get down. You're going to get down, yeah.

[01:28:50] And he's like, and how are you going to do that? I said, well, we're not calling. So, it's going to take too long. It's already 2.30 in the afternoon. By the time they get to me, it's going to be getting cold. I'm going to be hypothermic.

[01:29:00] Yes, we have everything we need, but we don't need to do that. So, and I imagine shock probably took over at that point. And I did. I literally just sat on my butt and scooted on the monorail the whole way down.

[01:29:14] And then when we had to walk, he made me walking poles, trekking poles, because up until recently, I did not use them. But now I'm starting to like them. Right. There's a safety factor. It is. I've used them before, and I had just generic ones that weren't great.

[01:29:31] And as I was coming down Lion's Head, they broke, and I fell face first into a bunch of boulders, and I swore I'd never use them again. Now they've gotten better. I mean, this was a long time ago.

[01:29:44] So, they're more stable, and they have saved me since I've been using them. Wow. So, you basically did the nightmare scenario. I did. But I always felt like if you injure yourself, you're better off continuing. If you can. If you can, you should, because you'll need them.

[01:29:59] Just keep moving, because the adrenaline is going to kick in, and you'll make some distance. It did. I just knew. I'm like, we can't sit here. It's going to be too long before anybody can get to us. So, 2.30, and then what time did you get down?

[01:30:12] I think it was almost 8 o'clock. 8 o'clock. Wow. Any tears? Were you freaking out? No. So, I had no idea. So, it felt like three hours for me. Brent, thank God. I feel so bad for him. Oh, yeah. He must have been stressing.

[01:30:27] I had to watch the whole thing. But we got to the car, and I remember looking at the clock, and I'm like, baby, it's 7.30? But thank God you weren't by yourself, because then that's a different situation. I know, and I'm always by myself.

[01:30:39] So, yeah, and that's what he said too. Again, I've got that training, and it's different when you're in the moment. I can't explain it unless you've been there. You don't really know. You just go into this autopilot thing, and you're like, okay,

[01:30:51] this is what I have to do. This is what happened. You don't really – I felt the pain, but it was more like the reaction my body had to the pain. Like I felt really lightheaded. I was lethargic. I had to drink a bunch of water.

[01:31:05] The, like, ridge line was spinning. I'm like, I haven't drank anything. I don't understand why I have the spins. But then once, you know, your body takes over, you just go. You just know you have to go, and that's it. Yeah, the adrenaline definitely helps.

[01:31:19] Now, for the hikers that are doing Mount Washington tomorrow, if you were going to be hiking Mount Washington, what would be your preferred route based on – is it going to be a beautiful day? Do you have, like, a preference on how you feel?

[01:31:30] If I felt like I was strong enough, I would go up Jewell. It's a great, easy-going, lovely trail, and then you get above, like, into the Alpine, and fairly quickly, I feel like, after a couple miles, but the view you have is incredible. Okay. And it's gentle.

[01:31:45] It's not super fast. It's a little bit longer, but it's beautiful, and you just – you get this different view that you don't get, like, when you go up Ammo or one of those. Okay. And then would you go down Ammo, or would you go back down Jewell?

[01:31:57] I would – if I was healthy, I would go down the Cog. Okay. So it's just a straight shot. I'm all about whatever is easiest, within reason, obviously, but – and I would take my time going down the Cog, but that's how I would go. Awesome.

[01:32:15] So Mel's opinion is Jewell and then Cog. So that's a different – we've been telling people to go down Bootspur, but – Oh, yeah, no, you don't want to do that. So you're coming from the other side, which – Yes.

[01:32:26] That side I typically will – I go up and down that in the winter, but then I tend to do the other side in the summer. And you go down Bootspur? I don't know why. Well, Bootspur's not that bad to go down.

[01:32:34] I'm thinking the little side trail that I took down to the Hermit. Oh, the Bootspur Link? Yes. Yeah, yeah, that's – It was fun, but I don't recommend it if you don't like Steve. That's Steve. Awesome. So, Stomp, any questions?

[01:32:50] Mel's had like a – she's had a whole thing going on here for a while. Yeah, it's been a little crazy. I missed the whole thing because I was trying to rustle up a Tuckermans representative to come up and talk about their beer.

[01:33:00] Oh, are they going to come up? Oh, boy. But I guess it's going to be you and I talking about it. Okay. Well, that works. Now, do you drink or you don't drink? No, I do drink. You do? Do you have a preferred beer? I love IPAs.

[01:33:14] I've been drinking their Dawn Patrol. I like that. It's much different than the Rockpile. Yeah, I have the Rockpile, I think. Yeah. Or I better have the Rockpile. I don't know. That might be a 12% right there. No, I'm just kidding.

[01:33:31] I may be getting an Uber back to Brownfield. Does that even exist over here? I don't think so. No. Okay, so here's the contrast. I'll give you a ride. Mike spends a lot of his time over on this side of the White on the eastern side.

[01:33:46] I'm a Route 16 guy, for sure. And I spend my time over on the western side, so it's a little bit of a culture shock coming over here. It's different. It really is. We have definitely grown.

[01:33:56] I live right here in town and it has just been crazy how much growth the town has seen. Yeah, I always tell people that when you come up from the Route 16 side, like, Wantons is the gateway to the White Mountains. Oh, in Wakefield, yes.

[01:34:10] That's the gateway to the White Mountains. Oh, my goodness, yes. Stomp doesn't understand, though, because he's over on the— Oh, it's beautiful. You can see all of them for just like a split second and then they're gone.

[01:34:19] I can tell whether it's going to be a good weekend once I hit Wantons. The haze. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, all right, I can see the White Mountains. You can see Melchee. Like, it's not going to be that bad. It's going to be good.

[01:34:29] All right, well, thank you very much, Mel. You're so welcome. We'll see you again soon. Yeah, it was good to see you. So hopefully you'll be out and about. Yes. I'm aiming for Washington with Floki the end of August for a hike for mental health. Awesome.

[01:34:44] So her and Hai will be out there for that, and then we are going to do the Alzheimer's hike that we had to reschedule. Awesome. We'll give Floki a bunch of hugs. I will, I will. And give Willard plenty of treats. I will. Yeah, awesome. I definitely will.

[01:34:59] All right, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I can put that down. Well, this has been fun. I'm tired. I'm doing all the work here. He does nothing. I'm just doing all the EQing. It's tough battling against a jam band, you know what I'm saying? They're pretty good though.

[01:35:16] Yeah, they're not bad. How are you going to get the background noise out of the audio for this? Oh, it's just, I mean, these are unidirectional, so we're going to sound perfect. Okay. Yeah. All right. Are we done? I don't know.

[01:35:32] Does anybody else want to come up and chat with these two guys from somewhere? Does anybody have any questions? Wow. It looks like we burnt everybody out. All right. All right. Jeff, anybody full strength coffee? Oh, here we go. Here we go. Audience Q&A time, everybody.

[01:35:52] All right, young man, have a seat. Just keep it close. All right, we have a random person that just walked up. We have no idea who this guy is. Do you want to introduce yourself? I am Dwayne Niskern from Pine Bush, New York in the Catskill Mountains. Catskill.

[01:36:10] So you hike these little small hills then? Yes. Oh, geez. Small hills. I'm already starting. I do enjoy the White Mountains. It's a great mountains and great event this weekend. Yeah, we have a friend Stosh that does a podcast about the Catskills. He's up here this weekend actually.

[01:36:31] Yeah. He's up here. Okay, cool. Yeah. Well, what brings you here? Are you doing Seek the Peak? I am doing Seek the Peak. Excellent. It's my fourth time, and I think it's a great event. What trails are you taking tomorrow? I'm taking Lionhead Trail up to the summit.

[01:36:48] All right. And then when you get to Lionhead, there's a point where you have to make a decision whether you cut up to Tuckerman or you can continue on and go up Davis Path. Do you have a plan or are you just going to wing it from there?

[01:37:02] I have been up. Last year, I went up the Tuckerman's Ravine Trail with my son and my friend Rose. And this year, we're going to go up the Lion's Head. And I think it's going to be a good trail for us. Awesome.

[01:37:16] And then what attracted you to hike Mount Washington? Do you just come once a year for this? No, not necessarily. I come a couple times a year. I love the area. And I think it's just a great event. And I like to help out, and I'm a hiker.

[01:37:34] So what the hell, you know? All right. Is this your daughter? This is my friend Rose here. Come here, Rose. Rose. I already met. You're the one moving to Portsmouth, right? She's in our team tomorrow. All right. So they're going to move to my neck of the woods.

[01:37:47] I think so. How do you feel about that? That's okay. I got a place to stay when I come up here. That's a good point. I can go hike Mount Washington. So you're hiking with your son. Who else are you hiking with?

[01:37:59] My friend Rose, her husband Kyle, and Matt. Yes, yes. The whole crew of us. And you've hiked with all these guys before? I never hiked with Matt before. You haven't? No. You know when you hike with a group, there's certain rules that you have to follow, right?

[01:38:15] Everybody stays together. Of course. You're as fast as the slowest hiker. Okay. Right? Right? And then is somebody carrying your gear for you? No. Nobody's carrying my gear. You see, he's an old guy here. Maybe Rose's gear or somebody else's, but not mine. All right. All right.

[01:38:34] Well, and then what time are you going to get on the trail? 6.15. 6.15? 6.15, Rose. I'm sure. Is this your fine family over here? Yes. All right. We should get them over here to talk about you for a few minutes too. Okay. Let's get Rose over here. Rose?

[01:38:53] Rose, you're up next. All right. Come on over, Rose. I talked to Rose. Oh, no, we have another microphone. Oh, that's true too. You can stick around. Okay. I talked to Rose earlier. Hello. So you wrote, stop. Rose is moving up near my area.

[01:39:05] She's going to be moving to southern New Hampshire and the, up in the like seacoast area. I feel bad for you. Why do you feel bad for me? No, my mentality is just go as far north as possible. I blame my husband.

[01:39:23] Is that a valid excuse to blame my husband as to why we're not moving further north? Listen, they've got the- That's good. It works. That's where you're moving to has the best seafood in their area. Okay. Amazing lobster rolls.

[01:39:36] And then you've got the beach, you've got the mountains, it's only an hour and a half. Like you're in a perfect situation. I live like in Amesbury, so I'm right near where you're going to be. So it's a no brainer.

[01:39:46] So we're basically going to be best friends now is what you're saying? We will. Awesome. I will see. Mike's not a really good neighbor. He pisses off all his neighbors. I have a neighbor issue. I could see that. Now are you hiking with them tomorrow? I am, yes.

[01:40:00] Now which one of you decided the route? Did you pick it or did everyone? I mean, it was kind of a unanimous decision. Yeah, I think so. Last year we went up Tuckerman's. I have gone up Lion's Head before. It was awesome. Good amount of scrambling.

[01:40:14] You get a bit of forestry, you get scrambling, you get Tuckerman's. I like it. You get a good view. And then have you hiked in other mountains in the White Mountains so far? No, but I intend to now that we're going to be living up here full time.

[01:40:30] So yeah. I have. I have been over a few of the mountains in the White Mountains. All the local and scenic lookouts and things. Awesome. Visiting. And how long do you think it's going to take tomorrow? Last year we left at like 6 or 6.30.

[01:40:48] The time is still up for debate. It is. Dwayne here told me 6 and was late. Okay. Well, the most critical thing is, so I'm going to tell you guys, the trick to successfully hiking Mount Washington is when you get up to the summit, the observatory's there.

[01:41:05] The Coke that they sell at the observatory, I don't know what's in it, but it's like a special Coca-Cola. Is it actually Coke or Coca-Cola? I don't know. It's actually Coke, but it's like a different kind of Coke. You're describing it like it might actually be cocaine.

[01:41:19] No, no, no. It's soda, but it hits different because when you hike that high, I don't know what the formula is, but it's unbelievable. So you get yourself a nice soda and then you get some hot dogs

[01:41:31] and then you can hike the rest of the day no problem. How many hot dogs is it? I usually get two or I'll get a slice of pizza. I think last year we got a hot dog. We got some snacks up there.

[01:41:43] We were hungry, we were starving by the time we made it to the top. The observatory is very bougie hiking Mount Washington. A lot of the other mountains, they don't have these vended restaurants on top. It was a nice event.

[01:41:57] We went through the weather observatory and seen all the instruments and everything else. We went to the top of the tower. We went to the top, the lookout, and up into the turret. I was up there before when Rose went up there last year.

[01:42:14] It was very—and really when you summit the mountain, I felt like it was a warming event. You felt proud in your body that you made it to the top of the mountain. Yeah, it's an accomplishment for anybody. It was an accomplishment, and I felt proud.

[01:42:34] And you feel it when you reach the summit. Awesome. I hope you guys have an awesome day tomorrow. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Good luck with moving to the area, and definitely take our info. If you have any questions, just email us on our website.

[01:42:46] Thank you so much. He looks like he's fun to hang out with. Are you bringing some beers for the summit? 48 Peaks Alzheimer's. Use your passion for hiking to help end Alzheimer's. In one collective effort, 400-plus hikers will climb New Hampshire's 4,000 footers

[01:43:08] or create their own hiking challenge to advance the care, support, and research efforts of the Alzheimer's Association. Hike anytime this summer and help turn the White Mountains purple to end Alzheimer's. No fundraising minimum is required, but you can unlock fun prizes as you fundraise. So visit alts.org.

[01:43:30] Right slash 48 Peaks to learn more. Hey, Mike. Think about it. Mike, we have some breaking news. Okay, we got breaking news? We have some insider information here on... Remember Fawn earlier? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know Fawn.

[01:43:49] Do you remember when she proclaimed that there was the worst trail that nobody can talk about? Yes. We have insider information. We're about to find out what that might be. So if Steve Summits could come up here, please, and take the chair with the...

[01:44:02] Oh, this is Steve Summits? Steve Summits is approaching the plastic bench table here. And we are at Tuckerman's Brewery, and he's picking up the microphone as he makes his way to the table. And people are taking pictures of him because he's famous. What's up, guys?

[01:44:22] Hey, what's up, brother? How you doing? Oh, it's so good to see you. It's so good to hear your voice actually for the first time on the podcast. So is this one of the guys that does the notable hikes all the time?

[01:44:33] Yeah, you always deny him the notable hike, I think. Okay, well, that's the problem is once I know you, I get a kick out of denying stuff. I know this guy here. So you hike with him?

[01:44:43] Yeah, Full Strength Coffee is my father-in-law, so I hike with him and my wife. All right, I think I met you before. Maybe briefly, yeah, reckless or something, yeah. Okay, that's good. Now, did you start hiking because of his influence?

[01:44:56] No, I was kind of into it from a young age, but I would say once he started hitting the 4,000 footers is when I kind of got into the lists. Okay, so who we're talking about here is Jeff Lyne. So he goes by, on Instagram, Full Strength Coffee.

[01:45:09] Full Strength Coffee, yep. You know, you're involved with veterans on the 48, right? That's fair enough to say. Okay, so what's the worst trail in the lights then? Drum roll, please. Now, is this really what Fawn said or is this your opinion?

[01:45:24] This is what Fawn said to me. Do you think it's okay to share? Well, you're the least trustworthy friend ever, but I want you to share it. All right, so I've never actually done this trail myself, but after hearing her, I want to.

[01:45:38] And she said it is Shoal Pond Trail. Oh, Shoal Pond. Okay. Is that by Carrigane? It's kind of to the east of Thorough Falls. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Matter of fact, Stomp just sent me a video today of like Thorough Falls and that whole area there

[01:45:56] because there's a plane crash. Oh, yeah, correct. Like the 1940s and 50s, so there's a plane crash site. Have you been there? Yeah, that was by Eric Hansen. Eric Hansen sent us a message saying you've got to talk about this,

[01:46:08] which we maybe touched upon it in the past, but it's in that region. Well, that makes sense because like that whole Thorough Falls and like East Side Trail and all that area, like nobody goes near there that's sane. Yeah, I've never been over there. I want to now.

[01:46:22] Yeah, I would check it out too. I think it's a good like backpacking camping area. I would think remote. So you go in through Ethan Pond and then connect to it. So basically like it's you can get there two ways.

[01:46:34] You can do the East Side Trail, which is parallel to Lincoln Woods. Yep. And then cut over and then eventually you can cross the Pemy farther up to get to Thorough whatever that is. Correct. The heart of darkness. It's deep.

[01:46:49] That's probably the deepest into the wilderness you can get. I think so. All right. Well, yeah. So there it is. There it is. We should just spill the beans there. Now are you hiking? Are you hiking Mount Washington tomorrow?

[01:47:00] I am. The three of us are going up Huntington. I actually have some unfinished business there. All right. What happened? Why is it unfinished? A year ago today I decided to try it solo because it's been on my list for a while. Nice.

[01:47:13] I slipped on a rock right at the base and I dislocated my shoulder. Mark the shame drop there. I will. Okay. Do you remember you did Huntington's and you did it with like one hand holding a phone the whole way up? I did, yeah. That was pretty shabby.

[01:47:26] Where did you slip on a rock though? It was before it started seriously going up. So this is a good point. So if anybody is hiking Huntington, I will say like I've hiked it a bunch of times

[01:47:39] but that area like the Boulder Field before you get to the climb is like the Bermuda Triangle. I've fallen in that area too and I pulled my tricep muscle one time. So it is tricky.

[01:47:51] So I actually don't feel too bad because it's happened to the best of us. Not saying I'm the best, but it's tough down there. Right. Yeah. No, I felt great with one arm underneath me and the other arm behind me and I struggled to pick myself back up.

[01:48:07] I was in a really weird position. Well, you're going to have to rely on this guy to make sure you can navigate that lower section. That's right. You know what he's going to have to rely on him for? For being a whistleblower on the shoal trail.

[01:48:19] He's going to need him to keep him safe. Yeah. So you guys are going hard core tomorrow. And then are you going to just go straight up like you're going to connect with Tuckerman or are you going to go around the Davis Path?

[01:48:33] I think we're going to head straight up. I kind of want to cut through the Alpine Garden because I've never seen that before. Yeah, yeah. And then we're going to head down Bootspur afterwards. Honestly, like that upper part of Tuckerman, I hate it. Like the rock hopping.

[01:48:46] I'm a short guy too. They're a little taller than I am, but there's too much rock hopping. So I'm a big fan of going around and just going up Davis Path. But you look young and in shape. Yeah. This guy's an animal. He can do it.

[01:48:58] Throw down a few hot dogs and I'll be all set. That's true. And the soda, the Coke at the top. That's right. It hits different. All right. What's that? Three hot dogs. Three hot dogs, by the way. Yeah, that's right. You better watch it. Awesome.

[01:49:11] Well, thanks for joining us and thanks for spilling the beans. Thank you, Steve. Thanks, guys. Good seeing all three of you. Thank you. And I think we're getting close to wrapping up, but I'm curious.

[01:49:20] Ellen, Ellen Estabrook, do you want to come up and say hi for a moment, please? She is the reason we are here. And I just want to say thank you so much for considering us. It's very much appreciated. Hi, Ellen. Ellen Estabrook is part of the OBS crew.

[01:49:38] Hello. Oh, this is on. There you go. That's good. Guys, I'm starstruck. Oh, get out of here. I'm so excited. Thank you. Are you exhausted? Like, this is like the beginning. You're like halfway through the first day, but like you organized all this, right? The whole team did.

[01:49:53] The whole observatory team. You can take all the credit. But reaching out to you guys was the best decision I made. Oh, come on. Yes. Don't get us going. Our egos are already through the roof, so. But thank you so much. Seriously. Awesome.

[01:50:05] And then are you, so you're going to be running around doing all the logistics tomorrow? Yeah. Tomorrow we're going to be at Pinkham Notch at 6 a.m., where all the hikers will be meeting and convening before their hikes, before the day. Awesome.

[01:50:10] And then will you eventually do the hike on Mount Washington at some point? I've done it a few times. I don't think tomorrow I'm going to be able to do it. We're going to be setting up tomorrow at Great Glens Trail.

[01:50:14] We're going to be setting up the tent, the tent, the tent. We're going to be setting up the tent. We're going to be setting up the tent. We're going to be setting up the tent.

[01:50:18] The Apre Hike Expo is at Great Glens Trail from 4 to 7, so that's where I'll be, yeah. Awesome. Yeah. And what's the, there's a lot of vendors there, a lot of food? There is going to be a turkey dinner for the hikers by Hart's Turkey Farm.

[01:50:48] That was backed by popular demand. The hikers from years ago wanted that to return, so that's what's happening. They do that for the Mount Washington race too. Oh, they do? Oh, they sure do. Oh, nice. It's amazing. So it's like a big community sit-down. Oh, yeah. That's awesome.

[01:50:58] Yeah. That's amazing. That's awesome. So that's what it'll be tomorrow, and we're looking forward to it. Awesome. Do you have an announcer? Is Andy part of that or no? Who? Andy Sachs. Andy Sachs. Andy Sachs. Andy Sachs. Andy Sachs. Andy Sachs. Andy Sachs.

[01:51:14] I think we're going to be sharing the mic tomorrow. Oh, excellent. That'll be fun. Yeah, I think in the past maybe that was the case, but we're going to have a huge raffle

[01:51:18] at the end of the night, and that's what people really look forward to, to win some awesome gear from the vendors, and yeah, it'll be awesome. Awesome. That's so exciting. Well, this is amazing.

[01:51:23] People listening to this won't be able to see, but there's got to be like 500 people here. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy.

[01:51:42] It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. I hope you guys had fun. Well, we had a blast. I'm hoping that you picked up a bunch of like additional hikers tonight, and then you'll pick up some more tomorrow.

[01:51:52] I did meet someone in the bathroom who was curious about Seek The Peak, so maybe we will. Awesome. Well, I wish I could go tomorrow, but unfortunately, I've got to entertain guests. But I know that it's going to be an amazing crowd, and you've got some great people.

[01:52:05] So thanks again for having us. Taking a shot. You never know what you're gonna get with us. So I mean you talked to a lot of people tonight So that was pretty cool. I'm exhausted. He made me do all the work

[01:52:15] You guys must be tired, but I see you have beers in hand. So that's good We do I was the agent tonight setting up all your interview

[01:52:21] You were stomps around the acting like we didn't really have a script or anything stomps running around just getting random people over here So it's been great. This is great. You guys do an awesome job. I just want to say well

[01:52:32] Yeah, you beat me to it because I really want to say thank you because you've been Interacting with us for the last two years through different channels and you're a professional. I really appreciate your

[01:52:44] Communication and you're just really top tier likewise back at you guys. I listen to you guys during my commute to work. It's the best Excellent Everyone's gonna hike Mount Washington tomorrow stomp and I both recommend it going down boots for but you like your own hike

[01:53:02] Yeah, that's right, so this is the sounds like a search-and-rescue podcast saying good night and have a great safe hike tomorrow and Thank you for having us let's drink thank you Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed the show you can subscribe on Apple podcasts

[01:53:37] Spotify pod beam YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts If you want to learn more about the topics covered in today's show, please check out the show notes and safety information at slasher podcast That's SLA SR Podcast calm you can also follow the show on Facebook and Instagram

[01:54:01] We hope you'll join us next week for another great show until then on behalf of Mike and stomp get out there and crush some Mega beats Now covered in scratches blisters and bug bites Chris staff wanted to complete his most challenging day hike ever

[01:54:22] Fishing game officers say the hiker from Florida activated an emergency beacon yesterday morning He was hiking along the Appalachian Trail when the weather started to get worse

[01:54:33] Officials say the snow was piled up to three feet in some spots and there was a wind chill of minus one degree This right Lieutenant James Neal and New Hampshire fishing game presented. Thanks for being with us today

[01:54:53] What are some of the most common mistakes you see people make when they're heading out on the trails to hike here in New Hampshire seems to me the most common is being unprepared I think if they just simply visited

[01:55:01] Hike safe calm and got a list of the 10 essential items and had those in their packs They probably would have no need to ever call us