Episode 165 - Welcome Barefoot Ken, Stuck on Mount Washington during Hurricane Carol in 1954.

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Here is the latest higher summits forecast brought to you by our friends at the Mount Washington

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Observatory.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Weather above treeline in the White Mountains is often wildly different than at our trailheads.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Before you hike, check the higher summits forecast at mountwashington.org.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Weather observers working out the non-profit Mount Washington Observatory write this

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_03]: elevation-based forecast every morning and afternoon.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Search and rescue teams, avalanche experts, and backcountry guides all rely on the higher

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_03]: summits forecast to anticipate weather conditions above treeline.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_03]: You should too go to mountwashington.org or text FORECAST to 603-356-2137

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And here is your forecast for Labor Day weekend 2024.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Friday in the clear under mostly sunny skies with a high around 50 degrees, winds southeast

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_03]: shifting southwest at 10-25 mph, increasing to 15-30 mph, with a wind chill 30-40 above

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_03]: then rising.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Friday night, mostly in the clear under partly cloudy skies becoming increasingly cloudy

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_03]: late, with a low in the upper 40s.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Winds will be southwest 15-30 mph increasing to 25-40 mph with gusts up to 50.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Again the wind chill will be falling to 30-40 above.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And Saturday, mostly in the clouds under mostly cloudy skies with a chance of rain

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_03]: early transitioning to in the clouds with rain.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I will again be around 50 degrees with winds southwest at 20-35 mph increasing to 30-45 mph

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_03]: midday with gusts up to 55 mph and 20-35 mph late.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Here are your hosts, Mike and Stomp.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_11]: Ken Posner is an ultra runner and writer based in New York, traveled extensively including

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_11]: most of the mountains in the northeast.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_11]: Ken is a minimalist barefoot runner and hiker who will share some stories of his adventures

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_11]: and also talk about his approach to outdoor adventuring.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_11]: Plus ever wonder what it might be like to be stuck on Mount Washington in the middle

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_11]: of a hurricane?

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_11]: We made contact with a listener by the name of Tyler who we've talked to a few

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_11]: times over the years and he was able to talk to his grandfather, a gentleman by the

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_11]: name of Peter Hood who was able to record a recollection of his experience of Hurricane

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_11]: Carol from 1954.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_11]: Peter as a young man was stuck near the summit of Bootspur with a friend who worked on

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_11]: the Mount Washington summit.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_11]: They got hit with torrential rain and high winds of this famous storm so the

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_11]: winds were I think clocked at about 140 miles an hour so they were stuck up on Bootspur in

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_11]: the middle of this.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_11]: So that should be an interesting little segment.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_11]: All this plus the weather is starting to change so Stomp's got some tips and reminders related

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_11]: to staying safe on trail.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_11]: On trail as it gets cooler, flags on the 48 is coming up.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to talk about ARIAI had a rough earnings forecast, Yellowstone

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_11]: tourists have gone wild, there's new OSHA rules related to searching rescue, lost

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_11]: on a mountain in Maine comes to theaters in November, Stomp's been out hiking on Eagle

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_11]: Cliff, Black Mountain and Welsh Dickey.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_11]: We've got notable hikes and then we've got like a handful of recent search and rescue

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_11]: news to cover including a fatality on Mount Washington to discuss so I'm Mike.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_11]: No Stomp let's get started.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_10]: This is Ben Pease from Hiking Buddies.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_10]: We are a 501c3 non-profit committed to reducing avoidable tragedies through education,

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_10]: impactful projects and fostering a community of support.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_10]: You can find out more at hikingbuddies.org.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_10]: We wanted to say thank you to those who have supported our mission and most

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_10]: importantly say thanks to those who speak up, who ask questions and who are willing

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_10]: to provide guidance and assistance on the trails when needed.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_10]: You embody what it means to be a hiking buddy.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_10]: And now for all my newer hikers out there, here's this episode's Hiking

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_10]: Buddies Quick Tip.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_05]: A couple of handkerchiefs or bandanas are a great addition to any first aid

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_05]: kit. It has multiple uses from protecting your neck or head from the sun, tying up

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_05]: wounds, repairing a broken bag strap or simply blowing your stuffed up or runny

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_05]: nose to improve breathing and increase oxygen levels.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Christina with White Mountain Endurance Coaching.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to let you know that not only do I coach endurance athletes,

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I also coach hikers and mountaineers.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I have plenty of experience in the White Mountains and would love to teach

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_00]: you how to start out whether you're a beginner.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're more advanced, give you some more skills to transition from hiking

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: to trail running and most of all teach you how to move safely in the mountains.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So whatever your goals are, whatever your experience is,

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_00]: reach out coaching.ChristinaFolsek.com.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to help you.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_11]: All right, very good here, Stomp.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_11]: So we've got a whole slew of new stories and topics to pull

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_11]: since we've been out for.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_11]: So, Kim, we were off last week.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_11]: We usually do the show every week.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_11]: So we get a bunch of we just basically pick like random news stories

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_11]: and things like that to start the episode off.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_11]: And we've got a big backlog because everyone's been sending us a lot of stuff

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_11]: and it's two weeks worth of topics to cover now.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, very good.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_11]: All right, Stomp.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_11]: So starting off the seasons are changing.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_11]: So I want to talk about your perspective around how weather is getting a little

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_11]: cooler and things that hikers should be thinking about when they're getting out there now.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is the first weekend that they're really changing

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_03]: in terms of the higher summits forecast with the wind chills hitting the 20s and 30s

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_03]: and you are actually 30 to 40 as well.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's definitely getting colder.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_03]: It's time to adjust your pack ASAP.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I've I've changed my pack around quite a bit.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I've started to add some colder weather gear.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I've added my thermo rest pad to the bottom of my pack.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's time to start taking inventory about what's in your pack and making the proper adjustments.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, a fishing game just put out a reminder as well as to the Hikesafe card,

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_03]: which is always a great idea.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_03]: But look at the Hikesafe website and look at the gear, the 10 essentials

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and make sure you're on track to protecting yourself as we start careening into the cold weather.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_11]: So the sit pad is back and then I typically like between, I would say,

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_11]: June and August, I usually just keep like a lighter raincoat on as my warm weather insurance.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_11]: But do you think it is now the time to get the get the puffy back in the in the backpack?

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, my yeah, mine's been in there probably for three weeks now because it's so

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_03]: it's so unusually cool this time of the year, unlike previous summers.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, definitely.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_12]: All right.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So we hit 40 down here in Thornton this morning.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: It was like 49 degrees.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I think today is one of the cooler days.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_11]: I was down in North Carolina and it was it was insanely hot.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_11]: But yeah, I think it's going to be mid 50s here in Massachusetts.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_11]: So yeah, good, good reminders.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_11]: And then at what point do we have to start thinking about micro spikes and all that fun stuff?

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_11]: October, November.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I would think so.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. We have a ways to go for that.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_03]: When is the end of summer?

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Late September?

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I think so. Yeah, September 23rd or something.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_11]: Let's not talk about that until after that.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_11]: You know the good thing about the cold weather now though is less bugs.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, it's fantastic.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_11]: All right.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_11]: And then next up, Stomp, we wanted to give a reminder that the annual flags on the 48,

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_11]: which is a September 11th Memorial hike is planned for Saturday, September 14th.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_11]: So this is an all day hike where groups will adopt one of the 4000 footers.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_11]: So there's 48 of them and then go up and hoist a flag on the summit of each of them.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_11]: And typically, you know, there'll be some helicopter flybys and things like that.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_11]: So if anyone is participating in that, just be aware that it's September 14th.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_11]: And if you're even if you're not participating in your hiking, expect to see

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_11]: some crowds on the summits and some cool flags.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's always a great time.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And if the weather is good, sometimes the Black Hawk makes a flyby, which is always exciting.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_11]: Yes. Yeah.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_11]: So that is coming up.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_11]: So we'll post a link on the show notes.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_11]: And then I think if you want to participate, there's like a chat forum

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_11]: on their website that you can go in and join a team.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_11]: I think most of the mountains are spoken for already, but you might you

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_11]: might be able to help out.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_11]: All right.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_11]: So next up here is we've got an update that the U.S.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_11]: National Park Services received a hundred million dollar gift.

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_11]: So this is the National Park Foundation.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_11]: So the way I read this is like this is like the federal version of what

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_11]: we would call the New Hampshire Outdoor Council.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_11]: So there's a philanthropic.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_11]: Right, right.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_11]: Foundation or a fund called the Lilly Endowment Fund.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_11]: So this fund is funded by the family of Eli Lilly.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_11]: Now, these endowment funds are, you know, they do philanthropic things too,

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_11]: but they also benefit these families in ways that they can shelter taxes and

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_11]: things like that.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_11]: But it's nice that they give in this gift.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_11]: The fund I think is worth 21 billion right now.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_11]: So they're giving it a hundred million dollar gift for the Park Service.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_11]: So this will impact more than 400 national park sites.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_11]: The president and CEO of the National Park Foundation hasn't indicated how they

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_11]: plan to spend the money, but they've, this article talks a little bit about

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_11]: them prioritizing restoring coral reef at the Biscayne National Park in Florida.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_11]: They're talking about restoring a trout species in Western national parks.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, maybe we can get a little bit of money here in the Hampshire

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_11]: to help out with some projects, but it's pretty impressive.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_11]: A hundred million dollar gift.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, very nice, very nice.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_11]: I want to figure out if there's a way that we can get some of that money stop.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_11]: But as podcasters.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you think we can get an endowment gift from the Eli Lilly company?

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, let's let's apply.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, let's do it.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_11]: Let's go for it.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_11]: You know who could use an endowment right now, Stomp?

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Ari-Eye.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_03]: What's going on?

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_11]: Why? What's happening with Ari-Eye?

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_11]: So I received this article from about 10 people and it is, oh, you know what I did?

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_11]: I put the, I put the wrong link in here.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_11]: But anyway, I don't even have to reference the story.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_11]: So essentially Ari-Eye had come out.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_11]: They had like their Ari-Eye as a co-op.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_11]: So they're not a public company.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_11]: They're an employee owned or basically not employee owned.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_11]: They're a co-op where I think anybody that's a member is technically an owner,

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_11]: but they're overseen by an executive board.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_11]: So they've just, they basically have called out that their earnings have dipped

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_11]: from 2022 and then the earnings forecast for them is not as positive as it

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_11]: needs to be in order for them to reach their financial goals.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_11]: So I think they said that they lost $311 million last year.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_11]: So there's some open questions around.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_11]: So they've been using savings to basically close the gap on those losses.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_11]: There's an open question of the long-term, you know, direction of the company,

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_11]: how they're going to turn it around.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_11]: Now they do issue a dividend every year.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_11]: So one of the things that they could potentially do is do away with the dividend.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_11]: That would close the gap potentially in some of the losses that they've been dealing with.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_11]: There is some struggles between the executive board and the green vests who are the workers

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_11]: at REI.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_11]: And there's been, I think, 10 stores that have unionized out of a, but I think there's like 180

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_11]: stores or something.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe I could be wrong about that, but I think that there's around 185 stores.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_11]: So there's some tension.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_11]: So this meeting wasn't exactly positive.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_11]: So REI is struggling a little bit.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_11]: They definitely were, they received a lot of positive impact from COVID, but that has since

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_11]: retracted a bit and their revenue has dipped.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_11]: And the thing I've noticed about REI, I know, Somp, I know you don't really go there that often,

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_11]: but to me it feels like their focus has been more heavily on more expensive clothing

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_11]: in that the actual gear they offer.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_11]: Like I look at the backpacks and it seems like they've got Gregory, they've got Osprey,

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_11]: they've got Duda for backpacks and then they've got their own brand.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_11]: And they're not, they used to have more selection I think for backpacks.

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_11]: So I don't know if that's one of the ways they're trying to consolidate, but I think that

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_11]: hikers like to sort of play around with different brands and there's not as much variety

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_11]: from what I can tell.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I suppose.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean their base is probably more what, I don't know,

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_03]: if you want to call them middle class I suppose, yes, no, as opposed to say like an Arcterix or

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_03]: something like that.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I mean, I feel like the good deals on gear were easier to find, but I also wonder

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_11]: there was a bubble where these things ebb and flow, like running's like that too Ken,

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_11]: like you have running booms and then you have it's a slowdown.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_11]: So like hiking, I feel like there was a big boom, I know me personally,

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_11]: like I have all my gear, like I'm really not in the market to buy anything new or expensive

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_11]: because I have more gear than I need.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_11]: So I wonder maybe less people are getting out there or the market's saturated and they're

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_11]: just not getting the benefit of the new hikers as much as they were before.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_03]: But they cover everything, climbing, kayaking, camping, I mean they cover everything.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't imagine any other reason for a drop than the money in people's wallets at this point.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean EMS is going through the same thing.

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well that's true too, the economy.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean inflation's not helping I don't think and the economy's maybe not as good as it has been.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I would think.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_11]: So I don't know if anybody's listening and you're an REI employee and you want to be a

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_11]: mole send us your opinions.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_11]: Whits blowers, we're looking for whits blowers.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_11]: I know a few people, I actually know more than a few people that work there but we'll see.

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not going to bother them but if somebody wants to be a mole reach out.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_11]: Hotline.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_11]: All right, stop.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_11]: I saw this issue posted on the New Hampshire 4000 footer page and it sounds like you got it as

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_11]: well.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_11]: That's a good one.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_11]: Good story.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_11]: And shout out to this guy for being vulnerable I guess because I certainly wouldn't,

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_11]: I would have been too afraid to post this but essentially there was a hiker who had hiked with

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_11]: his wife and they had planned a four day presidential traverse.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_11]: So not overly aggressive, you know, four days you can poke around a bit.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_11]: Matter of fact, stop a four day hike on, I'm trying to think how I would spread out a

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_11]: four day hike on the presidential traverse.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_11]: I'd probably do Valley Way Tent Site on day one then go over to like the perch

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_11]: on Adams for day two.

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_11]: Lake of the clouds, that's obvious.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_11]: Then Lake of the clouds and then maybe like the MISPA campsite or something so yeah,

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean it's not super aggressive.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_11]: But anyway, the poster he had said, you know, what he was written is he said,

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_11]: am I wrong to expect more?

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_11]: So he said him and his wife had attempted a four day presidential traverse from Appalachia

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_11]: to go into the Highland Center.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_11]: So the traditional North South presidential traverse and due to the weather delaying the

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_11]: hike to Lake of the clouds from Madison Spring Hots in the physical toll the trail put on our

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_11]: bodies.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_11]: So it sounds like they were going from, oh no wait a minute, I'm trying to understand this.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_11]: So they were going from Appalachia to AMC,

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_11]: so they left from Madison Spring Hots and they're going to Lake of the clouds,

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_11]: which is that's a long day.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_11]: But the physical toll that it put on their bodies,

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_11]: they decided to bail out down the jewel trail.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm assuming this was on the second day,

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_11]: it was Friday at 4 p.m.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_11]: This gentleman wrote that they're novice hikers and now they definitely,

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_11]: they realize that they bit off more than they can handle and he readily admits that.

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_11]: All that being said, he decided to use his Garmin SOS to request help because they were

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_11]: physically having trouble.

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_11]: There was some physical issues and they were trying to get down to the Cog Railway Station.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_11]: So the Garmin SOS responded and transferred them to the local sheriff's office who got

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_11]: them the fishing game.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_11]: Fishing game then called them back and assessed the situation.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_11]: They confirmed that they had gear with them to stay overnight.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_11]: They confirmed that they had food and water.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_11]: So again, they're doing a four night overnight and this is day two.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_11]: So they had all the gear they needed.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_11]: Fishing game assessed that they were about a mile and a half from the Cog Railway Station

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_11]: at eight o'clock at night and the sun was just setting.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_11]: And so we talk about this a lot is that sometimes the fishing game,

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_11]: they make a call and they say like, look, we're not coming out.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_11]: You can, you can stay out overnight because it's warm enough

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_11]: and you've got the gear and that's exactly what happened here.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_11]: Is that fishing game advised them to just stop and rest,

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_11]: get in your sleeping bags and camp out for the night?

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_11]: He does a little bit of like editorializing around like basically like fishing game told

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_11]: them to suck it up and deal with it themselves.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_11]: They again, they had gear, water, food, everything.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_11]: And what the, what the poster was asking the commenters was whether or not this was reasonable

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_11]: and what did they expect?

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_11]: I think they expected that we're going to have somebody come walk them out.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_03]: That's ridiculous. Yeah. I mean, they, they were expecting too much.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the story continues, they got out by 10.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_03]: There was two hours. I mean, they were tired, just chill for a while.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Worst case scenario, stay out. They had all the gear.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It's absolutely the right call.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah. I mean, they got out of their comfort level.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_11]: So, but it was, and then they, their car was at the Highland Center.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_11]: So they had to figure out a ride from the cog railway to the high,

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_11]: this guy's wife must have wanted to kill him by the way. Right?

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_11]: My wife, my journey.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And this story was sent to me by a listener, Jeff Keaton.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And he brought up the point that this is a really good reason to look for guides or,

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, groups like the hiking buddies, if you're a novice.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_03]: So you don't get yourself in this situation.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's a good point, Jeff.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for, you know, sending that along to us.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah. And I would say the hive mind, as far as the comments go,

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_11]: was that fishing game was not, this was not unusual that this was generally the right

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_11]: call from fishing game that the, the, the poster and his wife should have done a little

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_11]: bit more homework and they should have, if they were really in trouble,

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_11]: they should have just set up camp and, and stayed the night.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_11]: So not too many. I didn't read through everything.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_11]: There's like 200 comments, but you know,

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_11]: probably a few people that said like, this is all your fault.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_11]: But for the most part, I think that most of the commenters were pretty reasonable.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Right. Right. Because they were, an expectation was set ahead of time.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_11]: Be nice.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah. And we talk about this a lot with the metrics on search and rescue.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_11]: Like I capture all the metrics for search and rescues that hit the media,

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_11]: but this is a perfect example of one of those cases where there's no news report on it

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_11]: because fishing game determines that it's warm enough for them.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_11]: They've got gear and it's safe for them to stay out.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_11]: So they're not, then I got to log that as a, as a media report.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_11]: Right. Right.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_11]: All right. So anyway, so I was more sympathetic to them listeners, but Stomp was mean.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_11]: That's right.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_11]: Know what you're getting into people.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_11]: All right. Now here's one you better not be mean about is there's a,

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_11]: there was another dog rescue on August 17th.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_11]: Arrow is an 80 pound seven year old dog that was doing again, another Prezi traversal.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_11]: I think this is about the fourth or fifth dog rescue that we've seen from New Hampshire,

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_11]: Parr and rescue and every single one of them is between Jefferson and Monroe in that area there.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_11]: So they're all getting their paws cut up in that like Northern presidential section and tapping out

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_11]: at that point. So Arrow was with his owners. Arrow's got a pretty good resume, 35 or 48,

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_11]: 4,000 footers he did. So, you know, this is a solid dog that's probably pretty well conditioned,

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_11]: but even a dog this solid just the paws couldn't hold up. So they got to around like

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_11]: Lake of the clouds and the owners decided to build down in the new sick ravine trail.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_11]: The paws were bleeding. They were helping to, I guess they just decided to sit tight.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think they had like the gear to carry the dog out. So in the Hampshire,

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_11]: Parr rescue was notified and they made it to, I guess around 730 on Saturday,

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_11]: the 17th, the call came in to fishing game sounds like fishing game referred to New Hampshire,

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_11]: Parr rescue. They got up there at 1115 and then they were able to give Arrow's owners

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_11]: instructions for bandaging the paws and putting booties on. And fortunately Arrow was able to

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_11]: hike the rest of the way down. They got a quick litter ride across the gem pool, but

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_11]: otherwise, you know, got out okay. I'm sure that they probably took it to the vet after that. So

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_11]: experience dog. It's just like the, no matter how experienced you are those northern

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_11]: presidentials just rip these dogs up. It seems like especially the bigger dogs.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_11]: So just keep it in mind even if you think your dog solid, you know, it can happen. They can

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_03]: get injured. Yeah. Nice work by New Hampshire, Parr rescue too. It's certainly a great new

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_11]: addition to the search and rescue community. Yeah. And we'll include a link to their website here.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_11]: They did post another update that they got a donation from somebody in southern New Hampshire

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_11]: that had donated too large and too medium pack of paws, a couple of basket muzzles and two sets

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_11]: of dog booties. So I think what's going on is the Hampshire, Parr rescue is getting this

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_11]: gear out to the AMC hots. So it's available. So the AMC hot crews can distribute this out,

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_11]: especially I think leg of the clouds probably needs a whole closet full of this stuff at this

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_11]: point. So if anybody's looking to donate, you know, I always tell people donate to the

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_11]: New Hampshire outdoor council, take a look at New Hampshire, Parr rescue might be a good place

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_11]: to donate. Yep. All right, stop. I love this next story. Yellowstone Taurus goes bonkers.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_11]: Ken, do you guys in New York, so you're New York based like we've from time to time we've had like

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_11]: these crazy like we have one guy that had a mushroom trip and got naked and was screaming at

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_11]: other hikers on Galehead. Do you guys have any crazy people that get on drugs in New York

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_04]: that you are any good stories from there? No, no, people in New York are very well behaved

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_04]: and I've, you know, I've only seen the best in people on the trails, but okay, maybe

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_04]: on my next hike I'll run into somebody like this. Yeah, you can spend more time in New Hampshire.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_11]: So you'll find somebody but but anyway in Yellowstone we do frequently do stories of

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_11]: Taurus misbehaving on Yellowstone. I think it's accessible. It's really popular

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_11]: and there's a lot of things that can get you in trouble in Yellowstone. So I think that

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_11]: may be why but this story stop this might be a little different over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_11]: this Taurus was accused of stealing a Park Service tow truck and taking it for a joyride

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_11]: around Old Faithful in Yellowstone Park all well drunk. So apparently the ordeal started on

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_11]: August 10th, gentlemen by the name of Alan. Generally we don't use names but I think in

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_11]: this case I'm going to Alan Bowling come on down. He was denied the he was denied when

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_11]: he attempted to buy beer at the general store. So all these national parks have like general stores

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_11]: like I've been to Yosemite and they have like the general store near Camp Currie and you can go in

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_11]: there and buy six pack or whatever and generally everyone's pretty well behaved but in this case

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_11]: he goes into the Old Faithful general store tries to buy beer. It wasn't even that he was

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_11]: denied because he was drunk his credit card just wouldn't work. So his credit card declined

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_11]: so Bowling then left got mad decided to climb into this Yellowstone heavy wrecker which is a tow

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_11]: truck and just drove off and the suspect he's not an employee of Yellowstone Park and he has no

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_11]: authority to take the vehicle. So Bowling plowed through a large wooden fence in the truck and

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_11]: drove it along the public side of the geyser before turning around near the Old Faithful

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_11]: Lodge. The document says I just picture the dukes of hazard here. Epic. Epic. Yeah and he crashed

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_11]: the truck got out and ran across some trees before the Rangers followed him and eventually they

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_11]: arrested him. He claimed that his name was Nathan Patterson and he was an undisclosed United States

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_11]: Marshal and he needed to get the truck to the U.S. Marshal headquarters so he might have been

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_03]: having a moment. That's all right yeah it might have worked hey I don't know. And he refused the

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_11]: sobriety test so they had to get a warrant in order to search to get a blood sample in order to

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_11]: check him. So yeah yeah yeah. Faces four and a half years in jail and $45,000 in fines.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Unbelievable what a crazy story I love the U.S. Marshal aspect of it. Yeah he's probably aware

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_11]: of the Pierce Brosnan the Hollywood actor that got in trouble for walking in the

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_11]: around Old Faithful and he probably figured like he got a slap in the wrist so I'm going to go out

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_11]: and do this and get a slap on the wrist. Oh yeah sure good luck with that. Yes brother good stuff

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_11]: all right well Ken we're back to New York right now so I want you can you see the script I

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_11]: sent over yes if you scroll down to the bottom to page I think it's page five or six. What I'm

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_11]: showing Ken is a picture of a gentleman who is walking across a railroad trestle that's above

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_11]: a body of water and it looks like what happened is that his foot fell in between the railroad ties

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_11]: and he's now jammed in there so apparently park rangers in the Adirondacks were called to somehow

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_11]: rescue this guy because he was stuck his knee was jammed in between the railroad trestle so

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_11]: this is something that you have to be aware of if he had instead of having sandals on if he had

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_11]: big clunky sneakers on like I wear Ken he wouldn't have ran into this issue but have you ever

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_03]: run into this or have you been wearing snowshoes? Snowshoes exactly yeah snowshoes. Skis,

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_04]: skis would be even better yeah I haven't been on a trestle bridge I don't spend a lot of time in the

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Adirondacks we've got some beautiful trestles down where I am in Ulster County but they're they're

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_04]: solid. They're solid so you can't fall through that sounds real painful yeah yeah imagine like

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_11]: painful and embarrassing and uh you know having to wait for someone to come get you

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_11]: and pull you out of that I don't know how they got them out if they had to cut the

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_11]: trestles or what the story is but um but if you had big snowshoes would would fix that or if you

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_11]: had big clown shoes you'd be okay yeah but I'll I'll post that in the uh the social media so people

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_03]: can take a look at it looks like a lawsuit somebody that built that bridge is gonna get sued

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_11]: yeah the railroad trestles need to be only like an inch and a half wide

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_11]: right next up I got this sent to me by a few people actually shout out to my friend of the

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_11]: show Al he had sent over a couple of these articles um the occupational safety and hazard

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_11]: associate I don't know what it's called OSHA they're the ones that are in charge of making

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_11]: sure that everyone wears like helmets and um safety gear on worksites and all that stuff

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_11]: and they also have responsibility for all the regulations tied to overseeing fire departments

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_11]: emergency medical services in any other um agencies that respond to emergencies

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_11]: and there's currently a proposal working its way through the um occupational health and safety

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_11]: administration to replace existing fire fire brigade standards with a new emergency response rule

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_11]: and essentially what this would do and I guess this fire brigade brigade rule I guess I can't

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_03]: say brigade stomp it's not a word I can say it's it flows like shaming the dawn you just

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_11]: gotta say brigade brigade brigade so apparently the the fire brigade rule has not been updated

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_11]: since 1980 and one of the aims of the OSHA effort is to help reduce injuries and deaths among firefighters

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_11]: and what the what they're proposing basically is that um

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_11]: volunteer fire departments would have to comply with um

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_11]: with new rules which would essentially um cost significant amount of money and it would

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_11]: make basically volunteer fire departments and volunteer search and rescue organizations so expensive

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_11]: to to upkeep that it almost would force the state agencies to take over administration and make

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_11]: them professional instead of volunteer so um some feedback like I guess it sounds like the

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_11]: international association of firefighters backs the rule changes because they feel like it'll

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_11]: help protect firefighters and EMS workers it'll also expand payrolls for them um but there's also

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_11]: some speakers they talked to one guy in this article that says the new rule will have a

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_11]: profoundly negative impact on volunteer and career emergency responders across Montana

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_11]: in the country so a lot of the mountain west states are fighting back because they rely

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_11]: on volunteer fire departments and volunteer search and rescue um so the um a number of the

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_11]: the governors out in that area are um and senators so this is basically being spearheaded by a

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_11]: senator by the name of Steve Danes in Montana he's writing the department of labor objecting

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_11]: to the proposed administrative rule so essentially potentially if this went through this could impact

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_11]: all volunteer search and rescue it could impact um any volunteer fire departments

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_11]: and they would have to fund these rules um in a way that like would make it basically

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_11]: very difficult to to maintain as volunteer organizations that almost force the states to

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_04]: to professionalize them well Mike I'll tell you down in Ulster County New York where I live

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_04]: we've got volunteer fire in a number of areas and we've got volunteer search and rescue organizations

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_04]: which are quite good like New Jersey search and rescue and Sam's Point search and rescue so that

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_04]: would be um really counterproductive I'm not yeah I'm not an expert in any of these areas but

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_04]: that sounds really counterproductive for the state to try and do everything

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_11]: right yeah and my skeptical take on this is that um you know this could be a gift to labor to say

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_11]: like okay we're gonna basically force these agencies to professionalize so that it's it

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_11]: expands the the job market I mean you could argue that that's a good thing but I also think that

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_11]: in some of these cases like it's not broken it works well there's no need to fix it but

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_11]: um you know we'll have to oh keep an eye on it it sounds like there's a lot of resistance that's

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_11]: piling up from the mountain west state leaderships and maybe maybe this feels like one of those

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_11]: things that will cut across political lines potentially and you know maybe you'll get

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_11]: bipartisan pushback on it but it's worth keeping an eye on yeah I think you can

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_03]: just define it a little better um it's a 10th amendment issue basically so there are some

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_03]: states that have agreements with the government with OSHA OSHA plans um if a state has that plan

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_03]: then they may be obligated to go along with this like Utah so if that is the case then

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_03]: their options are either to have the legislature get rid of this agreement with OSHA

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_03]: or raise taxes you know to cover the new 700 hours of training and medical surveillance and

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_03]: everything else um as far as I know New Hampshire does not have this relationship with OSHA so it

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_03]: would not impact New Hampshire search and rescue it's a 10th amendment thing so basically

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_03]: they the government dangles the carrot and they say if you want some funding if you want us

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_03]: to pay for your rescues and everything else your EMS services then you're gonna have to do this

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_03]: it's the the three C's they the government can't coerce compel common DR state employees and in

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_03]: New Hampshire search and rescue volunteers do become state agents but again they don't have as

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_03]: again as far as I understand here a plan with OSHA that would entangle us into what's happening

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_03]: in the Midwest and the west that's pretty fascinating but yeah it's going to be a disaster

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_03]: because they're trying to lump search and rescue volunteers into services that would deal typically

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_03]: with like toxic exposure decontamination active shooters you name it and that's just not the

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_03]: case with backcountry rescue so it's going to be a nightmare it's just unaffordable yeah yeah it's

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_11]: interesting so thanks for that clarification snot because yeah it wasn't wasn't 100 clear how

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_11]: that will impact specific states but we'll keep an eye on it and it sounds like it's one of those

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_11]: deals like it's you know like federal funding you have to do all these things to comply to get

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_11]: federal road money or you know it's up to the state to fix the roads but it sounds like

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_03]: not everyone does it with OSHA so and I'm guessing but I think that's generally why you see

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_03]: in the Hampshire fishing game using things like the hike safe and whatnot to make their budget

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_03]: because they're more or less self-sufficient they they're not getting that some from the feds

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_03]: that I'm aware of so it's a whole different dynamic oh west is very different you know

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_03]: the sheriffs run the show like in this case in Utah there's like 29 jurisdictions 29 different

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_03]: sheriffs all managing search and rescue and EMS it's wild very different very good stomp

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_03]: or you had some housekeeping notes here yeah just a couple things we're getting pretty overwhelmed

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_03]: with emails that come in so if you're sending us emails and we appreciate it for tips news tips

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_03]: stories like that if we don't respond don't be offended but we just can't respond to everything so

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_03]: again thank you but be aware and then on the yeah I can tell you that with me running the

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_11]: Facebook page for the slasher podcast I can guarantee you that there will be probably a 30 to

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_12]: 40 day delay and messages because I like to look like once a month I'm sorry yeah yeah yeah it's

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_03]: the same thing over here with me it's like especially with the notables like it's getting

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_03]: slammed by the notable tags and we love them it's great but again if you don't make the list

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_03]: or we don't mention it for a month or two or if we come back from vacation and we're

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_03]: trying to catch up you know we're doing the best we can but uh yeah just a little bit of

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_03]: housekeeping there setting expectations as they say we all know that hiking a mountain can be hard

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_09]: at times so here's a corny dad joke to help you get over it but um bum let me see here I gotta pick

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_11]: out this is the part of the show where I do a dad a bad dad joke so I'm just flipping through so

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_11]: shout out to my friends Camilla and Lance matter of fact we're going hiking on Sunday

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_11]: we're gonna hike to watch her so thank you for them for giving me a uh book with 365 days of dad

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_11]: jokes so stop what's the worst thing you're likely to find in the school cafeteria what's the worst

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_11]: thing you can find in the school cafeteria uh school pizza the food okay brought it out yes

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_12]: yes it's absolutely I feel like that's me I used to love the the the the school lunch pizza on

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_12]: fridays the square pizza yeah when you were so bad anyway that's bad all right now we're gonna

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_11]: talk a little bit about gear stuff here stomp so you pulled a couple of um gear updates for the

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_03]: listeners to think about so what do you got yeah so we had a question from listener coffee and vinyl

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_03]: who asks this is in reference to a recent episode where we talked about the arcterics powered pants

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_03]: they they the pants actually help you move and his question is or their question is if you're

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_03]: hiking the 48 listen you wear arcterics assisted pants does the peak still count in the eyes of

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_03]: the AMC 4000 foot of committee and that's actually a really good point earlier I was thinking like

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_03]: okay well people use poles but that's different because these these are helping you this falls

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_11]: under like bicycle rule like no it doesn't count for the lists yeah yeah wild it's a great question

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_11]: so yeah yeah it's not coming on the rules but I'm I'm I'm making the call on that one yeah good

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_03]: call because soon people are gonna be in those like avatar robots I'm not doing a thing and the

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_03]: robot's gonna be taking them out the mountain true oh boy strange days next we have this thing

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_03]: called Cresilon that I discovered um I I discovered it you invented this yes congratulations did you

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_03]: patent it yeah fortunes are changing instantaneously so this could be something that ends up in

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_03]: people's first aid kits in my opinion it's a revolutionary hemostatic gel that shows promising

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_03]: results for treatment of penetrating traumatic brain injury and it's also being applied for just

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_03]: injury and wounds in general apparently this gel just stops bleeding it's a plant-based gel

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and it it has been shown to control bleeding when applied to a wound so it's pretty neat

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean keep an eye on it so if you pierce yourself with like a tree branch when you're out in the woods

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_11]: exactly that's what I'm thinking then you could use this you could slap this gel on there and then

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_11]: hopefully you could stabilize the bleeding and then get the patient out yeah that's the idea

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean if they're talking about using it for head injuries piercing head injuries

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_03]: then I would think that there'd be application for smaller wounds but

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_03]: the article doesn't really get into that it does focus more on the more dramatic injuries

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_03]: but it seems to be according to the article it's a syringe and is designed to provide a fast,

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_03]: effective and easy solution to stop and control severe bleeding at the point of care that's wild

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_11]: very good so we'll have to put that in show notes people can check it out Ken

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_11]: I want to apologize ahead of time for this little segment here so one thing you have to

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_11]: understand about stomp is he whatever minimalist is he's like the exact opposite of it so he's

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_11]: going to talk about this like gear hack that he's put together that's going to make him go from

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_11]: ultra heavy to ultra ultra heavy so I apologize ahead of time but stomp is good well I found

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_04]: that getting older reinforces the ultra white discipline I couldn't carry um I was down I

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_04]: had I was down watching the best ranger competition and these young folks are running carrying you

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_04]: know in body plates and boots and carrying 60 pound sandbags and I would have just like fallen

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_11]: over dead yeah see so Ken you're you've learned lessons as you've gotten older the correct way

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_11]: stomp seems to like revert he's like Benjamin Buttons he's going the wrong direction on here

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_04]: so why don't you talk yeah well he may be a strong uh strong dude who can carry a lot of weight

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_11]: he is he is I'll give him that so but stop why don't you explain so stomp wrote here

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_11]: I'll just read what he said he's got rid of his rain pack and he's replaced it with

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_11]: I'll let him explain but he's replaced it with like four or five different things that make

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_12]: like ridiculously more heavy well the pack no the rain cover is useless it's so useless you put it on

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_03]: and your your pack's wet you know honestly this thing you know we joke about the the uh

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_03]: voc loose gear being three ounces the socks this thing had this pack this rain pack cover

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_03]: had to be like five plus ounces it was heavy I felt it all the time impractical I never use it

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_03]: so I use those those waterproof bags uh like cinch bags for whenever it's raining I'll just

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_03]: sell one of those plastic bags in my thing so I cut it out there goes the weight and so I have two packs

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_03]: so in my summer slash fall low pack the 60 liter I put in um a solo bivvy and a foil warming blanket

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_03]: okay because in the warmer weather you really don't need that you know harder shelter necessarily

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_03]: in the winter pack um I put in a full tarp and uh paracord just so I could build shelter for somebody

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_03]: or myself or whoever like in the summer you don't really need I don't think that you know when it's

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_03]: 90 degrees in humid you're not going to need that thermo rest pad or necessarily a shelter so

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_03]: but yeah that's what I did so I I have never been a fan of those rain covers I just think

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_03]: they're silly and they were they were heavy I love the uh the dry bag inside yeah so outside of the pack

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_04]: gets wet the the clothing on the dry bag is protected correct yeah that's what I do that's how I approach it

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_11]: um otherwise your pack's gonna get wet yeah I I use like a a lot of times I'll use a trash bag

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_11]: um I did have a I had a rain cover but I uh I had a stomach issue on trail in a place that I

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_12]: didn't but I wasn't able to dig a hole so I used my um I used my uh rain cover as a

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_12]: landing pad and then put that in the trash bag and I haven't replaced it so that's a really good use

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_12]: for a rain pack yeah that's a good application right there yeah yeah well that was not a fun day but

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_04]: anyway do you find that something I will have some different perspectives the first time I did

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_04]: the John Muir trail my max load was 35 pounds with five okay the food but that includes everything

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_04]: down to my wristwatch and by the the third time I did it I think my max weight was 25 pounds

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_11]: was 25 and what's the John Muir's like couple couple hundred couple hundred miles

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_04]: it's 211 miles 211 five days of food was the max and I was like well I've got

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_04]: three water bottles why don't I get rid of two of them yeah yeah okay and we I get to like by the

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_11]: second or third time you've got the water strategy yeah I mean you've got you've got you've been there

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_11]: so you kind of know what the water situation is the first time you probably don't know you got

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_11]: a you gotta have some insurance policy there so anyway so stomp is all over the this the

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_11]: the pack modifications so congratulations

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_09]: hey what's that sound it must be time for the pop culture segment with Mike and stop

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_11]: next up here so Mike Keene our friend had given us a heads up we talked about this before so there's

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_11]: a famous book that I think like if you were a student in Maine I think that they assigned

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_11]: this book like when I was a kid growing up you had to read Old Man in the Sea in eighth grade and it was

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_11]: like a whole thing I think that in Maine they had a lot of the kids read this story called Lost in

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_11]: in Maine on a mountain and it's the story of Don Felder who in 1939 he was a 12 year old boy

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_11]: he had been separated from his family during a storm near the summit of Mount Katahdin

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_11]: and his disappearance launched a manhunt which became front new front page news throughout the

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_11]: nation involved a huge volunteer rescue effort he was able to survive for nine days without food

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_11]: and proper clothing he was able to follow a stream to a telephone line out of the wood so

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_11]: he made it to like the eastern part of Baxter State Park and then stumbled into a hunting

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_11]: camp about 35 miles away from where he'd gone missing so um he was dehydrated lost about 16 pounds

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_11]: and you know he credited his experience as a boy scout and helping him survive and it was

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_11]: a couple of frigid nights in there so he wrote a story about it and now Sylvester Stallone

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_11]: is the producer Hollywood movies coming out in November that tells the story of

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_03]: of Don Felder so should be pretty cool yeah looks good it's produced by Rambo himself

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_11]: so that's right he knows how to make a movie that's right

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_11]: you're good so we'll uh we'll link some some details on the story of Don Felder we've covered

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_11]: it before but it's a pretty fascinating story yeah it's one of those stories where it's good

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_11]: when you think about like how um kids might behave when they're when they're lost in a mountain

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_11]: all right well i know that you know if i was cold and lost on a mountain stump i would want

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_11]: some nice hot coffee nice hot coffee from maybe cs coffee is that what you think that's right

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_03]: that's right stomp you can take a hint yeah that's it our podcast is supported by some

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_03]: great hot coffee by the cs instant coffee company so they're makers of eco-friendly

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_03]: instant coffee it's perfect for anyone who loves the outdoors as much as we do great for

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_03]: backpacking day hiking camping and even at home so learn more and get in touch at cs instant

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_03]: coffee or email them at info at csinstant coffee and i've tasted this the stuff is great it's more of a

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_03]: it's a full-bodied darker uh like a more of a dark roast i suppose for an instant like that

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_11]: it's fantastic very good stomp um now's the part of the show where we typically talk about what

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_11]: beer we are drinking and i am not drinking beer i am drinking water tonight wow what's up with that

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_11]: i got a little throat thing going on oh no well that's a bummer well i've got uh let's see i've

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_03]: got this notch brewery it's called fest beer yeah yeah okay and it's a bavarian style fest

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_03]: lager at uh 5.7 percent really tasty and uh that comes to us as a donation from

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_03]: bobby at the campton cupboard yeah sometimes i go in there and he goes hey you want to try this

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah sure and he gives me a sample like that's all right that's pretty cool

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_11]: uh and then and then ken you just flash something is either shot of vodka or you're also drinking

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_04]: water i'm drinking water i had to swear off the i used to to love the ipas but after a certain point

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_11]: i just had to swear off the stuff yeah i go back and forth like i i go on these dry spells i'm

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_11]: in fact i i stopped drinking for like 10 12 years at one point but i did get back into it but um

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_11]: yeah i do try to like hold off for like a couple of weeks at a time and then go back so

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_11]: i do like a nice ipa this time of the year so i'm sure i'll drink one this weekend

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_03]: hey listen by the before we move on i just want to cover the coffee donations we just

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_03]: bumped up i actually we had a couple this week so if anybody wants to donate to the show

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_03]: to support the podcast um you can go to the slash or buy me a coffee website which is off

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_03]: of the instagram link tree this week we had two donations uh the first was from hikes four days

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and they donated three coffees and then margaret and spence also donated three coffees so thank you

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_11]: very much it's very much appreciated thank you thank you um and then stomp this is the part

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_11]: of the show where we do recent hikes so i've been like i had to drop one kid off in north carolina

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_11]: i sent another kid off to london i still got one kid at home that's older but she's barely here

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_11]: now um so i haven't got any time to go hiking but i am getting out this weekend but you've been on black

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_11]: mountain you've been on eagle cliff and then welch sticky storm so why don't you talk about your

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_03]: hiking adventures yeah just briefly i've been trying to just do the um the welch sticky

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_03]: when i can uh august 20th it was a really crisp beautiful hike it was the first time i saw

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_03]: the colorful fall foliage leaf they're starting to pop um black black via chippewa super muddy hazy

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_03]: bog bugs i mean the bugs are in full effect on the chippewa trail and uh i've been generally

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_03]: skipping the summit on black recently i stopped at that first ledge overlook that overlooks

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah it's like why go the the extra quarter mile to that summit um that ledge section is just

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_03]: really impressive and then um just as well i'm lime kilns no no i've done that once or twice yeah

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_03]: i'm all set with that uh this is like after work stuff i get out of work and i just zip up there

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_03]: and try to get some exercise and then mr stomp for the win she uh found a a hike that she'd

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_03]: been eyeing for quite a while and it's eagle cliff and this was located in sandwich um and

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_03]: it was awesome it was only 0.6 miles up so it's basically 1.2 on you know full and you're done

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_03]: and it's a beautiful trail it starts maybe um you know the 0.3 it's all flatish relatively easy

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_03]: grade and then there's a section of cliff scrambles that you can either bypass or ascend to this

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_03]: incredible viewpoint that overlooks the entire squam traverse from double head down to cotton

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_03]: literally the entire 13 miles and it extends beyond that towards whiteface pasacana way and you

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_03]: can just barely see uh chicora at the end so and that's looking uh from the east towards the west

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_03]: towards that whole traverse so short and sweet but huge payoff what a cool little hike and it's

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_03]: over the squam lakes too so the lake is like right below you and this is a this is a trail

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_03]: hike this is not a bushwhack correct right it's called eagle cliff and this actually connects

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_03]: if you continue from eagle cliff you go another two miles or so and it connects to red hill fire

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_03]: tower which is in center harbor uh so it's it's awesome i think i'll head back at some point

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_03]: try to do a traverse from eagle all the way over to red hill fire tower then down the cabin trail

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_03]: which would be maybe two four five miles like total but that's beautiful area really nice

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_11]: well good for you stomp and i will hopefully start um stepping it up a little bit i apologize

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_11]: for being lazy oh dude you've been busy super busy all right um so now's the part of the show

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_11]: where we we had a backlog of reckless hikes so our um reckless we have a backlog of slasher

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_11]: notable hikes of the week that's right yeah well some of these might be reckless so

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_03]: we have uh brady girl one who did um let's see she gridded out kinsmen's for 500 out of 576 for the

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_03]: grid that's just 3663 did wall cadet and cardidone for 25 and 26 out of the nyamshah 48

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_03]: birches at deer park hiked middle sugarloaf sporting a very sharp slasher t and then had

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_03]: a post hike druid reckless speaking of reckless jennifer that's why i said that i saw that on the

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_03]: that's probably it jennifer callan's 5678 uh finished 67 out of the 67 shout out jennifer

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah that's huge so she camped and hiked north brother saddleback the horn bigelow avry bigelow

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_11]: west that's a big that's a big accomplishment so ken i was looking at some of your blogs like you

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_11]: you've clustered together a bunch of these these main summits as well right yeah i've done i've done the

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_04]: i guess it's 111 uh the 4 000 footers in the northeast so i was in main last year last summer

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_11]: when you when you go out you do like five or six summits at a time or you spread them out a

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_04]: little bit more well i mean it's usually my vacation time so i drove up to main and did all

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_04]: all of them in main over two weeks oh wow and then on the way when i was at the last one i met a

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_04]: young ultra runner and he was going to do all of them over the weekend oh well there's always

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_12]: somebody there's always a bigger fish right yeah maybe feel old yeah well that's still impressive

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_11]: to get those done in two weeks so anyway continue stomp all right ec banks hikes 356 out of the

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_03]: 576 for caps ridge uh to jefferson and then just today which would be Thursday for listeners

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_03]: liz fey and davis shits in the woods did mount huntington and huntington south today and um

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah i i've yet to chat with dav but we were chatting about some of the different approaches

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_03]: those are those are challenging um yeah but congrats marley suit to z-bonds traverse very cool

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_03]: uh at end dexter 4888 finished the 48 and 48 peaks on musulak kinesthetically a werewolf

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_03]: finished 48 as well on mount carragane so it's always a so stomp i have a question for you how

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_11]: did you i was trying to like understand how you would pronounce that so it's kinesthetically

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_03]: a werewolf a werewolf what does that mean uh apparently it's a werewolf that's kinesthetically

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_11]: aware but what is kinesthetically what does that mean what's it's a definition in a static

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_03]: kinesthetic is just you know when you move your joints your your brain registers how your

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_03]: body's moving the the joints send information to your brain that's kinesthetic awareness

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_11]: oh so kin if you were ever gonna rebrand from barefoot ken kinesthetic would be a good

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_11]: that would be a good branding until um thank you yeah just peep that one in your back pocket

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_03]: just in case kinesthetic a werewolf oh boy so we have uh ronda's hiking again congrats ronda

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_03]: for hiking again uh did crow hill and edinburgh scotland uh mountain ginger hiked mount rogers

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_03]: which is the highest point in virginia and also the maccafee knob p gam jr paul gammel our buddy

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_03]: he hiked 12 miles in the ospies for faraday shaw roberts blacks now turtleback and bald knob

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: abomb gram tried to outdo stomp and knobby by doing great golf trail spanks washington six husbands

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_03]: jefferson adams madison and then down madison gulf that's pretty epic uh folk star hiked crocker

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and herd path to reddington for 64 out of the new england 67 highest and that friggin hiker did

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_03]: linwoods oh man that's that's the winner right there we talk about linwoods occasionally it's

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_03]: such a magical gem no dudes i will take you on a tour in there it's gonna blow your mind

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_03]: get mugged we're gonna get mugged uh and then last two more here so margaret and spence margaret

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_03]: completed the 48 with an overnight at guillo finishing on west bond for sunset that's epic

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_03]: and uh as you remember margaret's our little listener who's uh just crushing peaks with her

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_03]: dad okay margaret ruby and pup nisa finished 48 on carragane after 41 miles to complete the last

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_03]: six peaks so i guess they were they were out crushing the six peaks to finish over like a

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_11]: weekend or something to that effect so wow how am i supposed to uh no kidding how am i supposed

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_11]: to pick a notable hike of the week dude it's so hard so can usually we pick like one hike and we

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_11]: give it like okay yeah that's the notable hike of the week congratulations there's like six people

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_11]: that have finished their 4000 dude all right here we go this is why i do stomp i'm giving every one

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_11]: of these people a shout out so margaret ruby and nisa so you got a dog so you get oh then

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_11]: there's a little kid there's my how old is a little margaret uh margaret gee whiz that's a good

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: question she's gotta be younger than a kid she's probably younger than our other little wonder

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_11]: out there i gotta pick a little kid over a dog i don't know what to do here all right i'm gonna

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_11]: pick the little kid so margaret and spence uh notable hike of the week margaret ruby and nisa

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_11]: are tied from notable hike of the week then i've got jennifer callans because she did the 67

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_11]: she's tied for notable hike of the week and then i've got um and dexter 48 don't put numbers in your

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_11]: instagram please and then costetically wolf so congratulations for everybody it's a five-way

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_12]: tie there you go everybody gets surprised the little kids and dogs do it for me every time so

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_03]: nicely done i wouldn't have been able to divide that one up yeah yeah right about now ken is like

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_03]: what did i sign up for right on to all the people man they're they're out there crushing it that's so

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_04]: cool we had in the catskills uh a young woman by the name of luna became the youngest person to

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_04]: do the cat skill 35 oh wow he was four or five at the time oh yeah so that's what's happening here

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_11]: and the whites too is that we're seeing like younger and younger kids that are um going out

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_11]: there and i think that there's a you know it's it's a it's a it takes a while i think to get

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_11]: in the groove with the younger kids but like it shows that like certain kids you can build them up

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_11]: and they they seem engaged and they they can do it her dad said the secret uh was gummy bears yes yeah

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_11]: that's always i always found like you have food and um making sure you have like a full list of

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_11]: topics to always talk about to keep the kids occupied when they're hiking so yeah games songs

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_11]: things like that that's great and keep them cool make sure that they don't sweat right stomp

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: that's right and if they do sweat you gotta give them one of those voc loose gears so does your

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_03]: backpack not provide enough ventilation does your back sweat too much when backpacking as you know

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_03]: sweat can be extremely uncomfortable on the trails plus sweat is a serious risk factor in both hot and

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_03]: cold climates as your clothes get wet your core temperature can dramatically fluctuate

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_03]: and this can result in hypothermia heat exhaustion dehydration let's not forget it's just very

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_03]: uncomfortable for your kid today's your lucky day because we have good news for you there's a piece

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_03]: of gear that solves the sweat and ventilation problem making your backpack more comfortable

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_03]: it's voc loose gears ultralight backpack ventilation frame it's an ultralight

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_03]: backpack accessory that easily installs in your favorite pack sizes 15 liters to 45 liters

[01:05:16] [SPEAKER_03]: and creates a ventilating airflow gap between you and your pack it's also ultra light weighing

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_03]: around three ounces or equivalent to a pair of wool socks so whether hiking in hudder cold temps

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_03]: the ultralight backpack ventilation frame from voc loose gear is a real game changer regarding

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_03]: airflow and ventilation so visit them at voc loose gear dot com to order an ultralight ventilation

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_03]: frame today and use promo code slasher that's s l a s r to enjoy a five dollar discount

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_09]: and let them know that mike and stomp sent you it's time for slasher's guest of the week

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_11]: very cool very cool very good all right ken so this is your moment this is your big segment

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_11]: we're going to ask you a bunch of questions are you ready to go um sir thank you for having me

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_11]: yeah no it's it's um we appreciate you um joining us i've always had a curiosity so ken

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_11]: ken's here so he his website he goes by barefoot ken and he's known for um ultra running barefoot

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_11]: barefoot hiking and i've always said every once in a while i've run into and i'm a runner ken

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_11]: just to give you a little bit of let me show my resin hold on look at that see i'm showing ken

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_11]: my medals oh back oh cool cool yeah yeah behind me see so i had my medals they they're in a

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_11]: box in the garage yeah see i'm a little bit more like i get a brag i get a brag so um but i am a

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_04]: runner and um and a hiker but i i i'm not barefoot i'm inspired to take them out and hang them up

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_11]: they they matter right yeah yeah it's it's uh it's an accomplishment but but you know we we're

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_11]: excited to have you on to talk about sort of your journey on barefoot running barefoot hiking

[01:07:27] [SPEAKER_11]: and then you're a writer and then you're an adventurer like i actually want to talk a little

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_11]: bit about the john mere trail that you talked about um but stomp why don't we start off can

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_11]: you just give a little background on how we got connected with ken yeah a lot of the listeners

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_03]: have just sent us some of the best ideas for guests and uh ken came to us through listener bar one

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_03]: and uh the instagram handle here is gs bar one and it's uh he looks like a camera a photographer

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_03]: hiker biker skier jeeper and uh i guess there he's out in the Hudson Valley gongs cat skill

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_03]: metro new york area so gs bar one thank you very much excellent so um ken i guess maybe to start

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_11]: off with um if you could just give us a little intro about yourself or your background to talk

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_11]: a little bit about your early life and then how you got into running up to before you got into

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_04]: barefoot running and then we'll get into that well i was you know nothing remarkable about

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_04]: my early life although when i was 12 we went to new hampshire on vacation and my parents took

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_04]: us up on the hike up mount jefferson and i'm sure we would have been the the unprepared hikers

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_04]: all in jeans and having little sense of what we were doing but we just walked up it and

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_04]: survived and came down and i think that maybe that stayed with me when i was in uh college i did out

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_04]: we're bound um in in colorado and um and then after college i was hungering for something

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_04]: that was not sitting behind a desk so i i joined the ended up joining the army spent four years

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_04]: a peacetime veteran um but in light infantry and ranger units that were you know out in the

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_04]: field and that was really important to me so i i didn't really become a serious runner until

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_04]: you know my late 30s um early 40s and you know i was working the corporate job and seeing people

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_04]: drop left and right from you know medical issues and stress related issues and i was like you know

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_04]: i better get back into shape or i'm not gonna be around for the long haul yeah i had a similar

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_11]: like you know i i was a little bit younger but i remember i work i've been working corporate jobs

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_11]: for a lot of years but i remember my car was parked on the third level of a parking garage

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_11]: in maramagna hampshire i was working at fidelity and i i walked up to to my car my wife called me

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_11]: when i was almost up to the third floor and i was talking to her on my cell phone and i couldn't

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_11]: catch my breath and i said i gotta i gotta call you back and that was my moment was right

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_11]: before we started having kids i was probably and i was a runner early but that's when i just

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_11]: said this is enough i gotta get back into shape so did you have like was it one moment like that or

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_04]: was it just just general well it was sort of a memory that came back to haunt me when i was a

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_04]: kid i did karate and we went off to a special training and and uh once somebody was like

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_04]: see that guy over there he just turned 40 and for his 40th birthday he ran 40 miles

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and we had never heard of anything like that so we were just stunned and of course i forgot that

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_04]: totally until i was like 39 and a half years old and then i woke up and i was like crap

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_04]: i gotta run 40 miles too and i actually yeah until i was like 42 i kept putting it off

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_04]: but that's it just came bubbling back up i knew i had to do something

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_11]: yeah yeah do you have any advice or so like i mean i'm i find that running and hiking sort of

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_11]: keeps me level with the corporate job but i am like you know it's eight hours a day you're sitting down

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_11]: you're on video working from home like do you have like a rule of thumb or advice for people that

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_11]: that are in that situation in that lifestyle where um you know they can they can do things to

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_04]: improve their mental and physical health uh no no um i mean i you know i mean that's been a huge

[01:11:39] [SPEAKER_04]: issue in my life and by the way i love my job and the people i work with and i'm very proud to make

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_04]: um the contribution but i think in in my 40s and my 50s i began to feel myself getting

[01:11:55] [SPEAKER_04]: sort of stale um and so as i got so i began to tire of the you know just the and it's just

[01:12:05] [SPEAKER_04]: the pure right is it right brain or left brain it's a pure analytical approach to most corporate tasks

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_04]: i just had this huge hunger for um what i call the full mind body engagement of being outdoors

[01:12:18] [SPEAKER_04]: so it wasn't like it was a conscious choice for me i just had to start peeling off more time to get

[01:12:25] [SPEAKER_04]: outside whether it was running or hiking or whatever um it just there was just no question about it

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_04]: i you know it starts with you know the feeling like in the matrix something is not quite right

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and instead of you know creating some fantasy world you know you got to take responsibility

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_04]: and figure out what's not right and fix it and so for me it was just sort of getting back in connection

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_11]: with uh with nature yeah no makes sense and then so you you start on this journey you're running

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_11]: and i'm assuming like you're like everybody else that gets into running especially if you're

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_11]: even somewhat competitive from an age group perspective if you're doing races and things

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_11]: like that like you're dealing with injuries and you're dealing with um trying to figure out

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_11]: like okay what shoes work for me do i do insole and all this stuff so can you talk a little bit about

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_11]: how you transition from you know running sneakers to to barefoot running uh sure and and by the way

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_04]: the you know i used to do a lot of ultras and what a great way to package in a weekend that

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_04]: you know intensity right which i think a lot of us are craving that full like i said that full

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_04]: mind body engagement and intensity but you know as you get older the um you get better at pushing

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_04]: yourself right but you start to lose some of the strength and resilience in your muscles and tendons

[01:13:54] [SPEAKER_04]: and so you can set if you're not careful you can set yourself up for a cycle of injuries

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_04]: and that was me i love going fast and i loved you know the ultra running the breaking the

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_04]: barriers and going beyond what i had ever imagined uh that i could do um but as i was dealing with

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_04]: injuries i read the you know the book Born to Run which apparently is the best selling

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_04]: running book of all time uh at least according to amazon and chris mcdougal just makes this point

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_04]: this this this theory says hey look shoes are like a lot of other technologies they make us productive

[01:14:32] [SPEAKER_04]: they make us faster they protect us but there's always a cost to technology in the case of shoe

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_04]: his theory is that they alter your biomechanics and um by doing so they predispose people to

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_04]: injury and you look around runners are constantly injured so something's going on so i was just

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_04]: totally pragmatic i thought you know i'll give this a try and see if it helps with

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_04]: you know restoring some of my natural form and as i tried it the huge surprise

[01:15:04] [SPEAKER_04]: was how much fun it was and so i almost immediately lost interest in shoes i just went off the

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_04]: cliff i just i just went totally off the cliff like wiley coyote and you know the the feeder

[01:15:16] [SPEAKER_04]: spinning and it takes a second for him to realize that he's he's no longer uh standing on anything

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_11]: yeah as a writer do you have uh born to run's an interesting book like there's certain books

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_11]: that will they'll enter the sort of zeitgeist and and they'll they'll capture it's not often

[01:15:36] [SPEAKER_11]: that that happens like there's only a handful of books that i can think of but born to run

[01:15:40] [SPEAKER_11]: is one of those books where it just got to everybody i don't know if it was an opera

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_11]: book or what the story is there but like what can you what is it about that book that just

[01:15:49] [SPEAKER_11]: grabs people because i so many people just got impacted by that book so i think it's it's two

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_04]: things so one you know chris mcdougal positions barefoot running as almost like the holy grail of

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_04]: eternal youth you can fix your injuries you can run painfree and um so everybody wants to escape

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_04]: the the cycle of injuries but then the second thing i think there's a peeling about the book

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_04]: is it it fulfills this this this this hunger for primal experiences so barefoot running

[01:16:26] [SPEAKER_04]: barefoot hiking is incredibly primal it's what our ancestors did you know way before people

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_04]: invented moccasins and sandals now the funny thing is the book i guess it fulfilled that

[01:16:38] [SPEAKER_04]: hunger for the primal experience but people tried it it was hard and they and they stopped

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah i guess and that was my point of the few people who didn't get the memo hey it's just an idea

[01:16:47] [SPEAKER_11]: it's just a metaphor you're not actually yeah yeah yeah exactly i think i um when i read the book i

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_11]: you know i run whatever 25 30 miles a week and i think at one point i just went over the

[01:17:00] [SPEAKER_11]: high school track and i was like i'm gonna go see i'll do a couple laps barefoot to see what

[01:17:05] [SPEAKER_11]: it's like and it was fine but it was not comfortable to start with i probably ran

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_11]: at the pace that i normally was running at at that point and i was like yeah this is cool but like i

[01:17:16] [SPEAKER_11]: don't know my feet hurt so how do you get past that so what i did actually when i read born to run

[01:17:24] [SPEAKER_04]: is i did an experiment i went out to a it was a trail it was a trail with some rocks

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_04]: and i took off my shoes and with great trepidation i ran like 100 yards and a light bulb went off

[01:17:36] [SPEAKER_04]: and i was like okay i get it this is totally different because you're aiming your feet and

[01:17:42] [SPEAKER_04]: it's a different geometry it's not pounding you can't pound and so the core muscles are much more

[01:17:48] [SPEAKER_04]: engaged and you're flexing the knees and and so i sort of got it and then i put my shoes on

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_04]: and ran back home and the light bulb went off again because i was like whoa what happened to

[01:17:59] [SPEAKER_04]: the ground i can't feel the ground anymore but i didn't start barefoot running at that point

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_04]: what i decided to do at that point is transition from the conventional shoes to the minimalist shoes

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_04]: and i spent five years uh doing that and after five years i did another experiment

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_04]: and i went for a run barefoot run and i was embarrassed because people could see me and

[01:18:21] [SPEAKER_04]: and it was like totally meh and i got a scratch and my feet were dirty and it was like you know

[01:18:28] [SPEAKER_04]: okay whatever this was no big deal but the funny thing is the next morning when i woke up my feet

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_04]: were sort of tingling and it was really clear they wanted more they wanted the sensation they wanted

[01:18:41] [SPEAKER_04]: the information they wanted the textures and experience and and i think that's like i said

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_04]: where i really fell off the cliff because it that totally surprised me what was the reaction

[01:18:55] [SPEAKER_11]: from your friends and family because um i mean i just speak my own personal experience like i

[01:19:01] [SPEAKER_11]: you know they probably make fun of me and then i would be like you know leave me alone stop pecking

[01:19:05] [SPEAKER_04]: on me but like did you get any of that well i was very careful not to tell anybody good good thinking

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_04]: but eventually i went further and further off the deep end and so then and so actually today i

[01:19:17] [SPEAKER_04]: i the only place i wear shoes really is at work so now all my friends know and if they see me in

[01:19:23] [SPEAKER_04]: shoes they'd be surprised and they would tease me so so somewhere along the way the word got out

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_04]: but initially no i didn't tell anybody because i thought they would think i had lost my mind

[01:19:35] [SPEAKER_04]: what was the first race you did barefoot the first race i did was the the the

[01:19:41] [SPEAKER_04]: wall kill scramble it's a saint petty's day race and that was in i think 2018 it's up in ulster

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_04]: county and it's a 5k and that's what you do it's like anything you start with short

[01:19:53] [SPEAKER_04]: and then once you can do a 5k you're like well maybe i'll try half marathon

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_04]: but that it went reasonably well if you're on the right surfaces you can get used to

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_04]: smooth pavement pretty quickly the wrong services you'll never be able to deal with or at least i

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_04]: can't like you would be considered the wrong surfaces to start with gravel gravel so i'll

[01:20:16] [SPEAKER_04]: i'll tell you from a runner's perspective my um nobody's gonna care about my time is

[01:20:21] [SPEAKER_04]: the ratio between my best barefoot 5k and my worst is 5x no no i'm sorry

[01:20:30] [SPEAKER_04]: okay why still it's still you know if you put me on a gravel path i'm not going to be able to move

[01:20:35] [SPEAKER_11]: i'm gonna barely be able to walk if it's really bad gravel okay wow and then um

[01:20:42] [SPEAKER_11]: at what point did you start taking this to to hiking was it all at the same time or did

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_04]: that come later i think it was it was a it was a i mean i started barefoot running but i was

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_04]: still dealing with injuries and so we were on vacation um and there was a ski slope and i had

[01:21:03] [SPEAKER_04]: this idea okay look i'm gonna try some barefoot but i'm gonna make it real easy i don't want

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_04]: to barefoot run that's hard i'm just gonna hike up this ski slope and by the way what i would

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_04]: tell your listeners is you know the christ mcdougall idea of going straight to barefoot running

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_04]: that's the hard way to do it i would say start with barefoot walking then hiking and then if

[01:21:24] [SPEAKER_04]: if you feel it then then the running so i hiked up this ski slope and um you know it was no big

[01:21:31] [SPEAKER_04]: deal the grass was comfortable the mud was slippery there was some gravel which was annoying and

[01:21:36] [SPEAKER_04]: nothing surprising at all except the cows the cows were just like staring at me like dude

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_04]: where excuse what are you doing yeah um but i when i came back to new york i'm like i'm all right

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_04]: i'm gonna try that in the cat skills so i went up picomouse and picomouse is four miles and it's

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_04]: about 2000 feet and the big surprise there is like most cat skill trails covered in sandstone

[01:21:59] [SPEAKER_04]: fragments so that was immediately a more challenging uh exercise and i was sort of tiptoeing

[01:22:05] [SPEAKER_04]: you know around and through the rocks and i got up into the boreal zone uh where it's like like new

[01:22:12] [SPEAKER_04]: hampshire it's black dirt black mud some some smooth rocks and that was a different experience

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_04]: because you know nothing about barefoot is surprising like a rock would hurt or moss would feel really

[01:22:25] [SPEAKER_04]: good but the it's information it's another layer of experience and you know i could say hey come

[01:22:33] [SPEAKER_04]: out on a hike and you're really going to be amazed by the blue sky and the green trees nothing

[01:22:38] [SPEAKER_04]: surprising but you got to experience it you got to be there and so from that hike i came away

[01:22:44] [SPEAKER_04]: with a very strong sense uh that this was different and i really felt like instead of just

[01:22:50] [SPEAKER_04]: pounding through the environment i was more like a part of it so i was a little bit more a part

[01:22:56] [SPEAKER_04]: of the forest and it's to me it's like it's like skinny dipping it's like you throw yourself

[01:23:02] [SPEAKER_04]: into the environment with no protection and it's that much more direct connection

[01:23:08] [SPEAKER_04]: and and after that hike i was like i got to do all 35 cat skills this way

[01:23:14] [SPEAKER_04]: and and then after that it was just further downhill do you or so we talked a little bit

[01:23:19] [SPEAKER_11]: about the dog injury earlier in the show and there's this you know the the conventional

[01:23:24] [SPEAKER_11]: wisdom with the dogs is that you can condition their feet to be stronger and stronger to

[01:23:30] [SPEAKER_11]: to deal with more adverse environment do you find that with barefoot running barefoot hiking

[01:23:37] [SPEAKER_11]: that over time your feet do condition to uh to to be less sensitive to to sharp objects and

[01:23:43] [SPEAKER_04]: things like that yeah yes and no and by the way i was very sympathetic to the dog i i did the

[01:23:49] [SPEAKER_04]: presidential traverse and i remember going up to washington some of those blocks it's all

[01:23:53] [SPEAKER_04]: stepping on as you guys know right rock some of the granite there has like wavy ridges

[01:24:00] [SPEAKER_04]: that's really uncomfortable uh if you're barefoot i mean i would say every year my feet get a little

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_04]: tougher and my form gets a little bit better because a lot of it is form it's learning to step lightly

[01:24:14] [SPEAKER_04]: and to keep your balance um but feet are never going to get as as strong as as sharp rocks

[01:24:19] [SPEAKER_04]: that's just never going to happen so you always are facing the reality

[01:24:23] [SPEAKER_04]: that it's going to be a difficult potentially difficult environment and

[01:24:29] [SPEAKER_04]: the uh what you what you tell by just going slowly in barefoot is going to be more

[01:24:35] [SPEAKER_04]: quickly on rocky mountainous trails this is going to be slow and then carefully it's fine

[01:24:44] [SPEAKER_11]: and i would imagine you're the way you think of like for me when i'm in sneakers like i have no

[01:24:50] [SPEAKER_11]: problem stepping on a route at a at a perpendicular angle or squaring away on top of a rock whereas you

[01:24:58] [SPEAKER_11]: might be more prone to say like i'm going to just go right in the mud i would guess right so your

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_11]: route picking is probably different than sneakers right well you can go in the mud and you don't

[01:25:08] [SPEAKER_04]: have to worry about you know your socks like in the adirondacks right uh the adirondacks are

[01:25:14] [SPEAKER_04]: mud central uh as we all know and but you got to be careful because if you sink into the mud and

[01:25:21] [SPEAKER_04]: there's like a sharp rock or a stick underneath that's not good in bare feet so you can go in

[01:25:26] [SPEAKER_04]: the mud but you got to be uh you got to be careful you got to be mindful with every step

[01:25:33] [SPEAKER_11]: is there a um there's got to be like a little secret club of like dedicated barefoot like

[01:25:38] [SPEAKER_11]: ultra runners and hikers like how big of a community is it it's vanishingly small

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_04]: i was actually i was just out west and i to my complete astonishment i met another

[01:25:49] [SPEAKER_04]: barefoot hiker on matt elbert in colorado um so there's at least one barefoot hiker in colorado

[01:25:56] [SPEAKER_04]: i i then went and it was in sue falls and was running a race and there was a barefoot runner

[01:26:00] [SPEAKER_04]: there so but that's you know i've met one barefoot hiker in uh new hampshire i think

[01:26:07] [SPEAKER_04]: his name was aviar i think it was on kinsman okay that's it um so out of 48 uh out of 48 peaks in

[01:26:16] [SPEAKER_04]: new hampshire i went in the adirondacks i saw two barefoot hikers one day and another the

[01:26:20] [SPEAKER_04]: third on the second day i was astonished but that's it for the 46th peak in the adirondacks so

[01:26:27] [SPEAKER_04]: it's pretty it's still pretty rare but i'll tell you i think more people i think a lot of

[01:26:32] [SPEAKER_04]: people would really enjoy it if they felt um you know empowered and safe doing it and not

[01:26:42] [SPEAKER_04]: standing out and being different from other people the key thing is just you accept you're

[01:26:47] [SPEAKER_04]: going to go slowly and then it's right and that's the surprise that's my surprise because i i started

[01:26:54] [SPEAKER_04]: this for pragmatic reasons uh and i'm not a hit i'm not a happy a flower child i never went

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_04]: around barefoot as a kid i would have been horrified to do so and um the huge surprise for me was how

[01:27:07] [SPEAKER_11]: much fun it is do your feet like i know in the book born to run they talk about like your feet size

[01:27:13] [SPEAKER_11]: will will change and the structure of your feet will change is that true uh i don't it's it's

[01:27:19] [SPEAKER_04]: hard to say i think what was happening though as i was doing you know a lot of ultra running i

[01:27:26] [SPEAKER_04]: was starting to have some problems with one of the tendons the posterior tibialis tendon behind the

[01:27:31] [SPEAKER_04]: ankle and i think my feet i when feet are in shoes i just never paid attention to them so i

[01:27:38] [SPEAKER_04]: never paid attention to the alignment i never paid attention to engaging the big toe which activates

[01:27:43] [SPEAKER_04]: the arch so i think i was starting to really collapse in and i would say now um i don't

[01:27:50] [SPEAKER_04]: think my feet look dramatically different but i think my alignment is much better and my foot

[01:27:55] [SPEAKER_04]: strength is much better and i'm i just really feel like i know how to to activate the arch and how to

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_04]: press the foot down and you know that's the foundation for everything else in your body

[01:28:08] [SPEAKER_04]: so i i feel really good walking and running and uh and hiking barefoot it's just it's a really

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_04]: joyful pleasurable experience unless you run into you know too many sharp rocks and it's

[01:28:22] [SPEAKER_04]: unless you're hurt because it's not that's really going to work if you're in a hurry yeah what's your

[01:28:27] [SPEAKER_11]: take on so i would imagine like okay this so you did the cat scales maybe those aren't as

[01:28:32] [SPEAKER_11]: rocky he's like we've had our friend stosh on who does a podcast about the cat skills

[01:28:36] [SPEAKER_11]: and then you get to the adirondacks it's muddy but it's also you know a lot of rocks

[01:28:41] [SPEAKER_11]: then you get to the whites and it's even more difficult so could you it was that

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_11]: did that progression from the cat skills to the adirondacks to the the new hampshire and

[01:28:52] [SPEAKER_11]: mean was that difficult or was it pretty natural for you you know i would say over the last 10

[01:28:57] [SPEAKER_04]: years every year i feel a little bit better and every year i have challenges that aren't expected

[01:29:03] [SPEAKER_04]: but i would say the i think the daks are the best for barefooting because the north of the site

[01:29:09] [SPEAKER_04]: is i think it's a very strong rock and it doesn't seem to work shatter into into gravel

[01:29:14] [SPEAKER_04]: quite the way the granite does so the daks are nice the cat skills are sort of annoying with the

[01:29:24] [SPEAKER_04]: the sandstone fragments but it's not you know a serious problem i'll tell you what's bad i was just

[01:29:30] [SPEAKER_04]: in arizona in limestone is the worst because limestone shatters into real sharp edged fragments

[01:29:36] [SPEAKER_04]: right high bob limestone that's not that wasn't i did that i found out on bare mountain

[01:29:40] [SPEAKER_04]: outside sudona and that wasn't much fun oh yeah but the um but the surprise actually is vermont

[01:29:48] [SPEAKER_04]: you have the green schist that's very smooth in northern vermont so that was a nice surprise

[01:29:54] [SPEAKER_04]: in new hampshire the granite a lot of the um it can it can break apart into fragments and so

[01:30:00] [SPEAKER_04]: like the pemy loop i found some of those sections to be a little bit trying with a lot of gravel

[01:30:07] [SPEAKER_11]: off the block with fuel on yeah do you ever get sliced up any any uh like any issues with getting

[01:30:14] [SPEAKER_11]: like deep cuts where you're you're bleeding or anything or is it just come with experience and

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_11]: you go slow and you know not to step in things that are going to cut you zero zero by the way

[01:30:24] [SPEAKER_04]: the the feeder mission critical equipment if you think about our ancestors if they lost the

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_04]: ability to walk uh they were in trouble so the feet will in my experience they will say hey

[01:30:34] [SPEAKER_04]: this is no fun anymore stop and they will slow you down yeah before you so i've never gotten i mean

[01:30:40] [SPEAKER_04]: you can get you know from a stick or something a little scratch on the top of your foot but no i mean

[01:30:46] [SPEAKER_04]: i think the um the the only real injury i've had was i did a trail race in texas and i stepped on

[01:30:55] [SPEAKER_04]: a thorn and so my foot hurt for a couple days and then i got some tweezers and got the thorn

[01:31:01] [SPEAKER_04]: out and it was fine but no no no injuries no injuries yeah you sent some notes over

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_11]: to you like i've been doing this for 10 years 12 000 plus miles yeah almost 400 peaks on you

[01:31:13] [SPEAKER_11]: should add the comma to say zero cuts on my feet yeah for that so that's impressive um so you're

[01:31:20] [SPEAKER_11]: also you're also a writer and you do pretty detailed like race reports i was checking out some of your

[01:31:26] [SPEAKER_11]: um your race reports and um you're pretty involved can you talk a little bit about the

[01:31:31] [SPEAKER_11]: sort of ultra running race scene like i think ultra running was really peaking a few years ago

[01:31:37] [SPEAKER_11]: i haven't been paying as much attention i think that you know it's it's much more popular than it

[01:31:43] [SPEAKER_11]: it was you know even 10 years ago but what's what's the current sort of situation with

[01:31:48] [SPEAKER_11]: ultra running at this point of there the race is continuing to grow or is it is it

[01:31:53] [SPEAKER_11]: plateaued a bit

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_04]: um when i last looked at the statistics it was one of the fastest growing out segments of outdoor

[01:32:01] [SPEAKER_04]: recreation and i think what you're seeing is the professionalization of it so you have some real

[01:32:08] [SPEAKER_04]: big races obviously like you know utt utt mb i was just in colorado and i drove through ledville

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_04]: and it was coincidentally the day after that race which i'd run like 13 years ago so

[01:32:20] [SPEAKER_04]: um so i think it's great we see i mean i i'm part of a group that organizes i some races in the

[01:32:29] [SPEAKER_04]: hudson valley i direct one race and i think there's a lot of competition and there's some

[01:32:33] [SPEAKER_04]: really well-run um professional races besides just the local clubs putting on events so i

[01:32:40] [SPEAKER_04]: don't know if it's still growing at the rate it was but it's it's it's a great sport it's

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_04]: it's um it's really life-affirming and transformational because it's about breaking through

[01:32:53] [SPEAKER_04]: you know these perceived limits and discovering that you can do more than what conventional

[01:32:58] [SPEAKER_04]: wisdom says you can do and so i see people and whether it's ultra running or hiking

[01:33:03] [SPEAKER_04]: or peep bagging or whatever i see people and they get stronger and they get more confident

[01:33:10] [SPEAKER_04]: and you can just see the excitement and the passion and the energy so um i i think i think

[01:33:18] [SPEAKER_04]: the the running sports doing well uh overall and there's a lot of great races in new york

[01:33:24] [SPEAKER_04]: that are more familiar with um so i i think it's still a really really good scene and by the

[01:33:30] [SPEAKER_04]: way i love doing 5ks too i don't do as many ultra marathons as i used to um so to me it's

[01:33:37] [SPEAKER_04]: just so much fun to be outdoors with other folks and making an effort yeah do you find being one

[01:33:44] [SPEAKER_11]: of the only barefoot um runners typically i'm assuming you probably get it's a nice social

[01:33:51] [SPEAKER_11]: opener for you i'm sure people will have questions or they want to talk to you or

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_11]: um you know get a picture with your feet or something who knows uh what's going on there

[01:34:00] [SPEAKER_11]: but that's probably a pretty good social opener for you yeah i mean i think most

[01:34:05] [SPEAKER_04]: people think barefoot is cool because it's natural and so i i i get some compliments people call me

[01:34:12] [SPEAKER_04]: you know warrior or badass or they say respect or next level um so i think people like seeing

[01:34:19] [SPEAKER_04]: i think people like seeing other people being natural and doing what is you know our birthright

[01:34:26] [SPEAKER_04]: running and whatever way you do it and and other forms of being outdoors and so there's also a

[01:34:32] [SPEAKER_04]: lot of awareness um about you know foot strength and foot health and injuries and how barefoot can be

[01:34:39] [SPEAKER_04]: i think a lot of people know that barefoot can be really physically helpful for you relatively

[01:34:45] [SPEAKER_04]: few of those people again they don't i think most people hesitate to do something that's so

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_04]: visibly different also people recognize that there are mental benefits uh to barefooting i

[01:34:58] [SPEAKER_04]: was going up um let's see if i can pronounce it right doxol seed which is um the navajo name for

[01:35:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Humphries Peak in the san francisco mountains and this woman passed me and she's like oh

[01:35:11] [SPEAKER_04]: she did a little yoga about and she's like you're earthing or people will say you're grounding

[01:35:17] [SPEAKER_04]: and there are these sort of crazy theories that you benefit from you know electrostatic

[01:35:23] [SPEAKER_04]: or ion flow or something like that i think it's it's much simpler than that when you're

[01:35:30] [SPEAKER_04]: when you're walking barefoot you are engaged in what you're doing and you know there's

[01:35:36] [SPEAKER_04]: i think large parts of the brain that are there to you know you know foot eye coordination and

[01:35:42] [SPEAKER_04]: making sure that you walk in balance properly on rough terrain and when you do that it's the

[01:35:48] [SPEAKER_04]: joyful calm centered feeling of just doing what is deeply natural for us when you put on shoes those

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_04]: parts of the brain they're like well we don't have to pay attention now so let's trump biden camila

[01:36:04] [SPEAKER_04]: your boss your spouse your partners your friends that were being mean to you and you know you

[01:36:09] [SPEAKER_04]: let all that clutter come back into your mind and i think that's really what grounding and earthing

[01:36:14] [SPEAKER_04]: are about it's just i call it the the original human mindfulness just paying attention to what

[01:36:20] [SPEAKER_04]: you're doing right now and it's extremely restorative at least in my yeah yeah and i want to talk about

[01:36:26] [SPEAKER_11]: your writing so you've written a couple of books and you've got some good articles and and i actually

[01:36:30] [SPEAKER_11]: read some of your blog post and i think that we'll get into the books and things like that first

[01:36:33] [SPEAKER_11]: but like just the overall themes of your writing like the way that i'm i i'm and you just sort of

[01:36:40] [SPEAKER_11]: covered it here is the outdoor activities give you an opportunity to be immersed real time in

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_11]: the environment that you're in and it sounds like what you're saying is that the barefoot

[01:36:54] [SPEAKER_11]: aspect of it is like just another switch to get you deeper into that because you've really

[01:36:59] [SPEAKER_11]: got to focus intently on each step and you know as a hiker you still have to do that with

[01:37:05] [SPEAKER_11]: sneakers but it's a different level but the so some of the themes you talk about is sort of the

[01:37:11] [SPEAKER_11]: the mindfulness and focusing on that piece of it i i'm catching a theme of also and maybe this

[01:37:18] [SPEAKER_11]: is because we're all getting a little older but like there's an awareness of mortality in your

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_11]: writing as well that you seem to bring up and then um the goal focused activities like you're

[01:37:28] [SPEAKER_11]: this guy like i am and then you also talk a bit about like the the technology is sort of like the

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_11]: enemy of that engagement when you're out in the running or on the trails so can you and i know

[01:37:41] [SPEAKER_11]: i threw a lot out there but like can you talk a little bit about like can you put a bow on all

[01:37:45] [SPEAKER_04]: that and and talk about weird that weird all came from yeah i mean um there's there's a couple

[01:37:54] [SPEAKER_04]: of themes that are important to me and i think being outdoors is is a chance to rediscover

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_04]: what for me is the authentic subjective self who i really am whereas in you know my corporate job

[01:38:12] [SPEAKER_04]: or my day job or just the modern world there's this huge amount of noise it's information overload

[01:38:20] [SPEAKER_04]: it's everybody else's rules about who i am so for example in in the modern world who am i

[01:38:27] [SPEAKER_04]: here my driver's license that's who i am that defines me that's my number and and that license

[01:38:33] [SPEAKER_04]: gives me certain rights and certain obligations and ties me into this whole web of of how we behave

[01:38:39] [SPEAKER_04]: um but i that's that's not all of who i am and so going out into the mountains there's

[01:38:50] [SPEAKER_04]: a very different sense of self i think it's a much more primitive sense of self where you feel

[01:38:55] [SPEAKER_04]: that connection with the environment and there's the beauty and the joy and and i think driving

[01:39:03] [SPEAKER_04]: a car and going barefoot from the mountains is the the best you know contrast of our lives because

[01:39:10] [SPEAKER_04]: you want to go fast you need to be somewhere you should be going in a car right but it's boring

[01:39:16] [SPEAKER_04]: it's monotonous there's no joy to it you know maybe unless you have a maserati or something

[01:39:22] [SPEAKER_04]: but then you got to worry about you know the cops and the speed yeah even that gets old very

[01:39:27] [SPEAKER_04]: quick right so there's an authentic experience which is who we are and where we come from but

[01:39:34] [SPEAKER_04]: there's also a flip side to that so so ultimately my goal is to integrate because and i heard a couple

[01:39:42] [SPEAKER_04]: of your of your hikers are doing the grid and i i did the catsilver's grid the grid was a great

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_04]: experience because it gets you out in all the seasons and some people like the winner i don't

[01:39:52] [SPEAKER_04]: like the winner i like the summer but you got to go out in all the environments and now you

[01:39:57] [SPEAKER_04]: remember hey the mountains in the winter they're not necessarily your friends it's not an easy

[01:40:04] [SPEAKER_04]: environment it's not um it may not be it could be a quite a dangerous environment and it can be

[01:40:10] [SPEAKER_04]: very difficult and painful and so that hopefully allows you to level set and come back to your

[01:40:17] [SPEAKER_04]: day job and say okay i accept this day job it's not the full mind body engagement but also it

[01:40:25] [SPEAKER_04]: it gets me what i need to sustain myself and so it's the the balance between the two which i think

[01:40:30] [SPEAKER_11]: is the goal we're all you know striving for yeah yeah this is all just avoiding so instead of us

[01:40:37] [SPEAKER_11]: paying therapists we're getting out there in the woods well that's what edward abbey said

[01:40:41] [SPEAKER_04]: he said you know we have to preserve wilderness as our refuge otherwise it's crime drugs and

[01:40:47] [SPEAKER_11]: psychotherapy yeah yes i mean stomp would be in a white room right now without without hiking i think

[01:40:54] [SPEAKER_11]: so i'd be in there with you stomp probably probably hey i have an idea ken and stomp this is

[01:41:00] [SPEAKER_11]: we have an so there's a thing in the white mountains is there's a thing for um it's like

[01:41:05] [SPEAKER_11]: labored no memorial day weekend it's called alton weagle day and it's a it's an opportunity for

[01:41:12] [SPEAKER_11]: unique ascents of the mont washington auto road and i feel like you should ascend the

[01:41:18] [SPEAKER_11]: mont washington auto road barefoot and me and stomp will go barefoot too with you

[01:41:23] [SPEAKER_04]: okay well my hearing the race up there but i'll tell you a funny story the first time i

[01:41:27] [SPEAKER_04]: climbed mount washington uh i showed up with a friend in march into our astonishment everything

[01:41:32] [SPEAKER_04]: was covered in snow right right can you imagine i just finished this outward bound course and that

[01:41:39] [SPEAKER_04]: they had taught us about avalanche risk and there was something about digging out a square with a

[01:41:43] [SPEAKER_04]: shovel yeah i didn't remember what that was and we didn't have a shovel so i just said hey look to

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_04]: avoid avalanches let's take you know the the the most moderate grade and so that would be the

[01:41:55] [SPEAKER_04]: auto road oh nice so we walked up the auto road to the top of mount washington in march

[01:42:00] [SPEAKER_11]: 1983 or whatever it was oh wow yeah so we can recreate that but in warmer weather with the pavement

[01:42:08] [SPEAKER_11]: would be would be glad to do that right right so um so you've written a couple of books and

[01:42:14] [SPEAKER_11]: you've written some articles is there anything you want you want to plug a book at all well the

[01:42:18] [SPEAKER_04]: the one book i have that uh it's called running the long path um a journey of discovery in new york

[01:42:25] [SPEAKER_04]: hudson valley and that was when i threw ran the long path by the way is not the long trail that's in

[01:42:31] [SPEAKER_04]: vermont yes the long path is in new york is 350 miles from the city basically to the outskirts of

[01:42:37] [SPEAKER_04]: albany and it takes you through all the cool sections of the hudson valley you know the the

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_04]: cat skills the capital district the uh the schwann gunks the herriman um and so i set out i was

[01:42:50] [SPEAKER_04]: just turning 50 and i had done some ultra marathons but i'd never done a multi-day event

[01:42:54] [SPEAKER_04]: and i thought maybe i could break the record for the long path and it was just a huge uh

[01:43:01] [SPEAKER_04]: adventure and you know full of mishaps rain and running out of food and unfriendly parkubines um

[01:43:08] [SPEAKER_04]: but at the same time i i got little snippets of the history along the way and so after i

[01:43:17] [SPEAKER_04]: ran it i just became curious you know who was john boroughs right and why was he

[01:43:24] [SPEAKER_04]: so in love with the hermit rush and then he told to walt wittman about it and walt wittman

[01:43:29] [SPEAKER_04]: incorporated the hermit rush into his elegy for lincoln after lincoln was assassinated so there was

[01:43:35] [SPEAKER_04]: just so much fascinating history and one of the things as a writer that i'm very interested in

[01:43:40] [SPEAKER_04]: is the values that that matter and so there were these voices from the past talking about

[01:43:46] [SPEAKER_04]: values that matter and uh so i tried to i tried to tell that story as well as just my own

[01:43:52] [SPEAKER_11]: personal account on the trail yeah yeah we do that a lot too like you look at a map or you

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_11]: you know you you think about a mountain and you start doing research and it's like oh who was

[01:44:04] [SPEAKER_11]: what was this trail named after and oh this person did five different other things so

[01:44:08] [SPEAKER_11]: you pull on these threads on these on these regions of mountains and you find all kinds

[01:44:13] [SPEAKER_11]: of amazing history so i can imagine that you probably found a lot yeah and that that's

[01:44:18] [SPEAKER_04]: i have a book i'm working on um on the my experience from the john mir trail and there are so many

[01:44:24] [SPEAKER_04]: fascinating stories from the heist here like clarence king or one of my favorites is sarah

[01:44:30] [SPEAKER_04]: when amokka who was the first native american woman to publish her memoirs and she wrote about

[01:44:35] [SPEAKER_04]: the trials and tribulations of the northern payut tribe um just amazing stories uh and i you

[01:44:44] [SPEAKER_04]: know to me is exciting to tell those stories to those who haven't heard them and in just to

[01:44:49] [SPEAKER_04]: highlight you know the values that matter you know whether it's determination or connection with

[01:44:54] [SPEAKER_04]: nature or sympathy just i feel as we get old those of us who are privileged to be getting older

[01:45:00] [SPEAKER_04]: you know is a chance to take a deep breath and and look around and say hey you know this really

[01:45:06] [SPEAKER_04]: matters right um yeah and so sharing those stories when when they're incredible people who

[01:45:14] [SPEAKER_04]: have had just lived adventurous lives it's a lot of fun to me anyhow yeah and we talked about the

[01:45:20] [SPEAKER_11]: john mir trail earlier so you did you did did you do it three times because you liked it three

[01:45:25] [SPEAKER_11]: times or were you attempting to complete it or what's the story with the the three trips out

[01:45:31] [SPEAKER_04]: so i was flying in this airplane and i'm a big john mir fan as i'm sure you guys are

[01:45:36] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah and i was flying in the airplane from san francisco to la and i looked out

[01:45:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and i saw the seara in the in the uh in the alpin club in the sunset uh and i was like oh my

[01:45:49] [SPEAKER_04]: i have to go out there and see what why john mir called this the range of light and so on a

[01:45:54] [SPEAKER_04]: whim i went out in 2020 which was obviously a difficult time and i said i'm going to do it

[01:45:59] [SPEAKER_04]: barefoot with no idea what the terrain was like um and i actually made it about 70 of the way barefoot

[01:46:06] [SPEAKER_04]: but um i don't know if you guys are any of your listeners know the descent past sing singer creek

[01:46:12] [SPEAKER_04]: down into the the san wakene river valley where the mir the mir trail ranch is that kicked my

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_04]: ass because it was uh steep rocky and of course i show up at noon so the sun is just beating down

[01:46:26] [SPEAKER_04]: this trail and i had to put on shoes so i ended up doing about 70 of the trail barefoot

[01:46:31] [SPEAKER_04]: and 30 in shoes and i was like that's not good enough so i came back next year and did 80 barefoot

[01:46:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and it finally took in 2022 i was able to do the whole thing with a little bit better resupply plan

[01:46:46] [SPEAKER_11]: etc um but it's assuming that magic going out there like you get to lay the land much better

[01:46:54] [SPEAKER_04]: so it's a little easier the third time around right that was not easy that's not easy anytime easy um

[01:47:02] [SPEAKER_04]: when i got down finally from uh whitney and i put on my shoes to get down whitney i would not be able

[01:47:08] [SPEAKER_04]: to survive the hundred switchbacks etc yeah and i was the next morning i got up in lone pine and had

[01:47:15] [SPEAKER_04]: some breakfast and the world had just be just the world became totally still and time stopped

[01:47:25] [SPEAKER_04]: for a day and then it came rushing back but that that was you know and that's why we all

[01:47:31] [SPEAKER_04]: do these things you have these special experiences and you push the limits in some direction and by

[01:47:37] [SPEAKER_04]: doing that you learned something that you know we would not by just doing our job behind our

[01:47:42] [SPEAKER_11]: desk yeah well i can only speak to the last 10 miles or so like i did the little yosemite camp

[01:47:49] [SPEAKER_11]: ground and half dome and all that and the john mirth at the last section there but um definitely on

[01:47:55] [SPEAKER_11]: my list to get out there and explore deeper into the into that yosemite region yeah it's

[01:48:01] [SPEAKER_04]: beautiful out there but you know new ham sure it's all beautiful and sometimes people have

[01:48:06] [SPEAKER_04]: arguments about what's the best mountain and my answer is the best mountain is the one you

[01:48:11] [SPEAKER_04]: can get out to so for me it's the cat skulls as soon as i get back home i'm i'm gonna make a b line

[01:48:18] [SPEAKER_04]: and i gotta get another five peaks i just got to get more of it while i can't it's just huge hunger

[01:48:24] [SPEAKER_04]: and out there looking through the uh through the mountains yeah and you're doing a project here

[01:48:29] [SPEAKER_11]: you're looking to get a thousand mountain summits so you're at looks like 400 or so so is that

[01:48:36] [SPEAKER_11]: mostly going to be in the cat skills or do you have a plan to do do more rounds in the ham

[01:48:41] [SPEAKER_04]: sure and in the adirondacks well um so i'm at 405 out of out of a thousand it's a thousand barefoot

[01:48:49] [SPEAKER_04]: mountain peaks and so far most of it is the cat skills that's where i did the grid and a lot

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_04]: of that was barefoot at least in the summer i mean there's so many gorgeous places in the world

[01:49:00] [SPEAKER_04]: and you just have to um you have to pick and choose and there's this and it's interesting being out in

[01:49:07] [SPEAKER_04]: the um in arizona and learning a little bit about the navajo culture just a little bit but they had

[01:49:14] [SPEAKER_04]: four cardinal points four sacred mountains hasperas blanca taylor and humphrey or or doxos

[01:49:21] [SPEAKER_04]: sleep that was their land and it was so important to them and you know as as modern people

[01:49:28] [SPEAKER_04]: we have the benefit of being able to go anywhere but we also are sort of at sea in a sense but for

[01:49:36] [SPEAKER_04]: me you know i've spent a lot of time in the cat skills so those will always be um a focus for me

[01:49:43] [SPEAKER_04]: but i also you know like like the rest of us i you know have this this eagerness to go out and

[01:49:48] [SPEAKER_04]: explore i'm i'm working on the i'm not working on the colorado 14ers but i i've done two of them

[01:49:55] [SPEAKER_04]: now barefoot i'm not going to do all of them because some of them are too dangerous for i think for

[01:50:00] [SPEAKER_04]: barefoot but but you know you you feel this attraction and it's just a question which

[01:50:06] [SPEAKER_11]: which song are you going to listen to yeah well i'm impressed i might get back out and try the

[01:50:13] [SPEAKER_11]: barefoot thing well actually let me ask you this because i got the treadmill here do you

[01:50:17] [SPEAKER_11]: recommend that people try going on the treadmill or is that not a good surface to start with

[01:50:21] [SPEAKER_04]: what i would do is i would find a trail with a little bit of rocks don't find something that's

[01:50:27] [SPEAKER_04]: possible and the you know particularly for running um the real guru of barefoot running is uh ken bob

[01:50:36] [SPEAKER_04]: sackston and he's written a book called barefoot running step by step and that's a great resource

[01:50:40] [SPEAKER_04]: for anybody wants to give it a try and he makes a point that if you just run or walk on a really

[01:50:46] [SPEAKER_04]: smooth surface like the track or grass or the beach you're not necessarily going to learn

[01:50:52] [SPEAKER_04]: you're not really going to change you're going to continue to walk or run like you have shoes on

[01:50:57] [SPEAKER_04]: because you can the real way to learn the barefoot technique is on

[01:51:02] [SPEAKER_04]: rougher terrain and that forces you to develop the balance the agility the lightness of step

[01:51:10] [SPEAKER_04]: the coordination so a trail with some rocks it doesn't have to be a killer but go out and do

[01:51:17] [SPEAKER_04]: you know it could be a quarter mile and then just see what your feet think if they're like wow i want

[01:51:23] [SPEAKER_04]: to do more of this or they might be like stop put our shoes back on we don't want to do this

[01:51:30] [SPEAKER_11]: all right the best stop i think i think what i'm hearing is me and you got to go barefoot

[01:51:35] [SPEAKER_04]: out on the Lincoln woods oh yeah by the way i love it wombeck tom oh what's the one that

[01:51:43] [SPEAKER_04]: starts with c those are beautiful cabit cabit yeah those are beautiful dirt trails those were so nice

[01:51:51] [SPEAKER_04]: whereas i wouldn't start with you know the presidential traverse necessarily for isolation

[01:51:55] [SPEAKER_04]: isolation is it that's just a stream bed yes yeah and of course i was there and it was pouring

[01:52:05] [SPEAKER_11]: oh yeah well that seems to be the way with isolation it's always really wet there so

[01:52:09] [SPEAKER_04]: but i think a lot of folks if they said hey we're not going to do 10 miles today we're

[01:52:14] [SPEAKER_04]: going to go out and do you know a mile and we're going to carry our shoes with us so that

[01:52:19] [SPEAKER_04]: if we have enough um go out and do a mile on tom or something and it's just so much it's like being

[01:52:27] [SPEAKER_04]: a kid again it's just you feel that connection i do go around if i'm up in new hamptraw look you guys

[01:52:34] [SPEAKER_04]: up because i do go and take people out on you know one hour 90 minute easy introductory barefoot

[01:52:42] [SPEAKER_04]: hikes but you don't need me really it's no magic yeah no i definitely connect with you

[01:52:47] [SPEAKER_11]: keep in touch for sure i think though the concern i'd have if we brought stomp is that like my feet are

[01:52:52] [SPEAKER_11]: good looking i have good looking feet stomp's feet of like it's got here it's it's not good

[01:52:57] [SPEAKER_11]: so that's the one thing i would be concerned about that's all right we we want to be inclusive

[01:53:04] [SPEAKER_04]: and welcoming well we'll get out we'll get a muddy but no 90 pound pack uh stop that's

[01:53:11] [SPEAKER_12]: yeah yeah right that's not gonna happen so but uh any extent did i miss anything any questions you

[01:53:18] [SPEAKER_03]: have oh man this is like one of my favorite topics i went after that book i went through a spell where

[01:53:23] [SPEAKER_03]: i was running um minimalist i guess and that's that's the question i had for you ken is

[01:53:28] [SPEAKER_03]: is there a distinction between minimalism versus the true like dictionary definition of barefoot

[01:53:35] [SPEAKER_03]: because you could have somebody running without anything on their shoe or on their foot i'm sorry

[01:53:40] [SPEAKER_03]: like on a beach for instance versus you know running in the mountains with something on your

[01:53:45] [SPEAKER_03]: feet is there a click of people that are running truly barefoot yeah so as i mentioned i spent

[01:53:53] [SPEAKER_04]: about five years transitioning from conventional big heel clunky you know shoes to the thinnest

[01:54:01] [SPEAKER_04]: minimalist shoes like the five fingers and sandals and super lightweight shoes and for me it was like

[01:54:08] [SPEAKER_04]: a transition from pounding to tapping but when you go from any protection on your feet to true

[01:54:15] [SPEAKER_04]: barefoot it's another transition and it's no longer tapping now it's just the sensation

[01:54:22] [SPEAKER_04]: so it's a it's a beautiful thing but it is very different and that little pebble is gonna drive you

[01:54:28] [SPEAKER_03]: nuts um oh yeah but i'm talking i'm talking like no protection whatsoever just like no protect

[01:54:33] [SPEAKER_03]: that's barefoot barefoot is no protection okay so there is a distinction gotcha got it got it

[01:54:40] [SPEAKER_04]: okay yeah that's fantastic um but the but the naked foot is it's like it's like being a kid again

[01:54:48] [SPEAKER_04]: it's like being a huck finn he was the first boy to take off his shoes in the spring and the

[01:54:53] [SPEAKER_04]: last to put on the leather in the fall and he was it's um he was a free spirit so barefoot is

[01:55:00] [SPEAKER_04]: turning your back on conventional wisdom and saying i can go back to being um having this more

[01:55:08] [SPEAKER_04]: natural connection and since we are where we are we didn't grow up most of us barefoot

[01:55:13] [SPEAKER_04]: it's going to be shorter it's going to be slower and it's going to be more about the

[01:55:19] [SPEAKER_04]: experience and less about the speed but it seems just a wonderful to me it totally

[01:55:25] [SPEAKER_04]: totally lost interest but here's the the thing you got to be a little bit of a free spirit

[01:55:31] [SPEAKER_04]: a conformist will not do and sometimes barefoot will trigger people so sometimes i'll go to a

[01:55:38] [SPEAKER_04]: coffee shop or grocery store or whatever and i'll be confronted by the shugist apo and thrown out

[01:55:45] [SPEAKER_04]: or whatever and so you know it is it is a very different direction from you know the conventional

[01:55:53] [SPEAKER_04]: mindset i just want to mention that by the way that's the whole spirit of minimalism is hey

[01:56:03] [SPEAKER_04]: i'm not sure we're going the right way anymore let's backtrack to the last trail junction and

[01:56:08] [SPEAKER_04]: reassess that's what the really disparate meant it's hey yeah people are too far over their

[01:56:16] [SPEAKER_04]: skis in terms of the next gadget or technology or rule or whatever i'm i'm i'm stepping back i don't

[01:56:24] [SPEAKER_03]: think this is right right yeah i took a chris re review of some of the studies out there earlier

[01:56:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and uh clearly it does help flat feet builds up the arch and mike you had mentioned does your

[01:56:36] [SPEAKER_03]: foot shrink and i think it does two points statistically because your archer is getting higher

[01:56:42] [SPEAKER_03]: but you know having issues myself there are the studies point to like benefits for knee pain for

[01:56:48] [SPEAKER_03]: sure less so for the hip but i think if you're somebody would say rheumatoid arthritis or somebody

[01:56:54] [SPEAKER_03]: like myself with i had undiagnosed hip dysplasia if you have those conditions you have to take

[01:57:00] [SPEAKER_03]: this a little bit differently and more cautiously but it got me thinking like oh my god you know

[01:57:06] [SPEAKER_03]: if the elderly or people that are looking to get moving want to get into this it's so perfect

[01:57:12] [SPEAKER_03]: starting more barefoot and i realized that yeah most of the people that i treat at some of the

[01:57:16] [SPEAKER_03]: clinics i work at have those grippy socks on they're actually barefoot all day long so that was

[01:57:23] [SPEAKER_03]: actually so cool i was like oh wow so yeah so just a couple points there but uh yeah that's great

[01:57:31] [SPEAKER_04]: i love it i wish i could do it yeah i'm sorry and you know we're all at different points and so

[01:57:37] [SPEAKER_04]: whatever experiments we do have to be appropriate for ourselves but but i'll just add you know

[01:57:41] [SPEAKER_04]: and i think we all know this the number one or at least this is what i've been told the number one

[01:57:45] [SPEAKER_04]: cause of emergency room visits for those of us past 50 is slipping and falling and actually

[01:57:52] [SPEAKER_04]: listening to your guys your your pie gets i really appreciate you know you catalog the people

[01:57:57] [SPEAKER_04]: who get hurt or in trouble and i listen to that stuff because that could be that could be me but a

[01:58:03] [SPEAKER_04]: lot of it is slipping and falling so it might be that a little bit of barefoot is helpful for balance

[01:58:09] [SPEAKER_04]: and agility and you know just the care with which you move and maybe that would be helpful

[01:58:15] [SPEAKER_03]: to some people well i think that's the bigger takeaway it's just i think the book itself that

[01:58:20] [SPEAKER_03]: book born to run it's not even about barefoot even i think it's that book is um a testimony to form how

[01:58:28] [SPEAKER_03]: important form is no matter what's on your foot like if you get your form down boom you're good to go

[01:58:34] [SPEAKER_11]: yeah that's a good i think that's a good way to uh to wrap the segment up ken and i appreciate

[01:58:39] [SPEAKER_11]: you sitting in with us and putting up with our wacky opening stuff here and we'll make sure

[01:58:44] [SPEAKER_11]: that we include all the info on our show notes so people can check out your blog

[01:58:48] [SPEAKER_11]: i love your writing i think that you write it really well we'll include the book

[01:58:52] [SPEAKER_11]: and um all of your social so people can follow you and again let's stay in touch i'd love to try a

[01:58:59] [SPEAKER_11]: barefoot hike um i think that would be the only way you'd get me back up mount tom again i would

[01:59:04] [SPEAKER_11]: i would do it on that one yeah very well i would do it no no doubt yeah you have to shave

[01:59:10] [SPEAKER_04]: the hair off your toes though but mike and stout thank you so much for having me on your

[01:59:17] [SPEAKER_04]: show i really love what you guys are doing and appreciate the information and and uh so a new

[01:59:22] [SPEAKER_04]: hampshire pike will well not in the winter oh yeah you will not find me a new hampshire in the

[01:59:28] [SPEAKER_04]: winter but next summer yeah i'll try and make something right on yeah for sure stay in touch and

[01:59:34] [SPEAKER_11]: thanks again and um stomp i think and you can hang out for a second here ken where we go into

[01:59:40] [SPEAKER_11]: our next segment but um stomp so this next segment that we are going into it's about a

[01:59:45] [SPEAKER_11]: 10 minute clip here um our friend tyler tyler had interviewed his grandfather um about the

[01:59:54] [SPEAKER_11]: hurricane carol from 1954 that had struck mount washington stomp this is a different time so you

[02:00:01] [SPEAKER_11]: didn't have the mount washington forecast which we start every show off with and you didn't have

[02:00:07] [SPEAKER_11]: all these fancy apps so basically 19 year old um peter hood who is tyler's grandfather who

[02:00:15] [SPEAKER_11]: was going to tell the story of this he's unsuspecting he basically i think he hitchhiked or took a

[02:00:21] [SPEAKER_11]: bus up from conquer to meet his friend who worked on the mount washington summit and you know they

[02:00:27] [SPEAKER_11]: got together stayed up on the summit for the first night checked the weather report everything

[02:00:33] [SPEAKER_11]: seemed fine unbeknownst to them there they head down the day they they connect with the davis path

[02:00:40] [SPEAKER_11]: they eventually make their way down to the resolution shelter which i think is no longer exists um he

[02:00:47] [SPEAKER_11]: talked about trying to find a unh cabin i don't even know that maybe i got to look at that piece

[02:00:52] [SPEAKER_11]: of the story because i don't know if there's even a cabin that's down in that dry river wilderness

[02:00:56] [SPEAKER_11]: he might have just been thinking of the lean to that he ended up on but essentially

[02:01:00] [SPEAKER_11]: they did the next day they came back up got up on davis path again found themself on boots for

[02:01:07] [SPEAKER_11]: just as this hurricane made its way up and hit mount washington with 130 mile an hour wind

[02:01:14] [SPEAKER_11]: and about three and a half inches of rain so um they were driven back down to the shelter

[02:01:20] [SPEAKER_11]: and then the next day they made it back up to the um they made it to lake of the clouds

[02:01:25] [SPEAKER_11]: and then back up to the summit and then i think he took the cog down but it's an

[02:01:28] [SPEAKER_11]: interesting story to hear him describe what it was like yeah it's great it's awesome

[02:01:36] [SPEAKER_11]: so let's check it out we'll go into that and then yeah

[02:01:47] [SPEAKER_08]: hello my name is peter hood and this is the story of my adventure hiking on mount washington

[02:01:55] [SPEAKER_08]: during hurricane carol which hit the state on august 31st 1954 i was 19 years old at the time

[02:02:08] [SPEAKER_08]: and my companion was alexand acons who worked at the summit house on top of the mountain

[02:02:17] [SPEAKER_08]: this was before hurricane forecasting existed in the united states and 20 years before

[02:02:25] [SPEAKER_08]: quote the 10 essentials unquote in hiking i want to thank peter crane at the mount washington

[02:02:34] [SPEAKER_08]: observatory for researching the weather data for the storm the winds on the summit that day

[02:02:43] [SPEAKER_08]: frequently sustained at 130 miles per hour with a maximum gusts of 142 miles per hour

[02:02:53] [SPEAKER_08]: it also rained a total of 3.49 inches i called it quote the plan it was august of 1954 and i went

[02:03:18] [SPEAKER_08]: from conquered new hampshire up to mount washington to meet my friend alexand acons

[02:03:25] [SPEAKER_08]: who worked at the summer house on the mountaintop we were going to hike

[02:03:32] [SPEAKER_08]: from the top of the mountain down to jackson to the university of new hampshire outing club cabin

[02:03:41] [SPEAKER_08]: and then into jackson to get some food in town and bring it back then the next day we would

[02:03:50] [SPEAKER_08]: climb back up to the top of the mountain i either hitchhiked all the way from conquered

[02:03:56] [SPEAKER_08]: or i took the bus to plimoth or maybe to jackson if it went that way either way i know i hitchhiked

[02:04:04] [SPEAKER_08]: the rest of the way up to the base of mount washington where the car grillway was located

[02:04:12] [SPEAKER_08]: i met my friend alexand and we went up the car grillway to the top of the mountain

[02:04:18] [SPEAKER_08]: that night we stayed in the bunkhouse where all the other college kids slept and the next morning

[02:04:27] [SPEAKER_08]: we started out very early to hike down the mountain we checked the weather and it all seemed

[02:04:35] [SPEAKER_08]: to be okay little did we know that hurricane carol was bearing down on this area so we set

[02:04:43] [SPEAKER_08]: out to hike down the davis path it got to be three in the afternoon maybe three thirty

[02:04:52] [SPEAKER_08]: and it was getting dark and we hadn't reached the outing club cabin the way to reach the

[02:04:59] [SPEAKER_08]: university of new hampshire outing club cabin was from the main trail there was a dotted line

[02:05:08] [SPEAKER_08]: which was a c shaped that hitched on to a logging trail that's where we would go down to the cabin

[02:05:19] [SPEAKER_08]: however it really started raining hard at that point and luckily in taking this little dotted

[02:05:27] [SPEAKER_08]: line off the main trail to the logging road we went in a circle and came back to the main

[02:05:35] [SPEAKER_08]: trail we never found the logging road we hiked a little bit further down the main trail

[02:05:45] [SPEAKER_08]: it was getting dark and was raining hard so we stopped at an amc which is appellation mountain

[02:05:55] [SPEAKER_08]: club lean to to spend the night and figured that we wouldn't get into jackson at all

[02:06:01] [SPEAKER_08]: in the lean to was a quarter of a box of cold cereal that was our dinner for the night for equipment

[02:06:08] [SPEAKER_08]: we had a backpack two sleeping bags jackets and no food because we plan to walk into jackson

[02:06:18] [SPEAKER_08]: however we didn't get into jackson and it rained hard all night long on the morning of august

[02:06:28] [SPEAKER_08]: 31st we got up and it was still raining we went back up the davis path headed toward the mountain

[02:06:38] [SPEAKER_08]: because the allison had to go to work the next day on the summer there was a stream coming down

[02:06:45] [SPEAKER_08]: the trail but as we ascended it got bigger and bigger we hiked until we got to the bootspur

[02:06:57] [SPEAKER_08]: above timbaline it was raining and blowing so hard that we thought it was hail against the sides of our

[02:07:06] [SPEAKER_08]: faces and we had to put up a hand to stop it from stinging our cheeks we went along a bit further

[02:07:16] [SPEAKER_08]: on bootspur occasionally august of wind would make it so that you couldn't stand up so we

[02:07:30] [SPEAKER_08]: crouched down on all fours and after doing that a few times we decided that we wouldn't be able to

[02:07:37] [SPEAKER_08]: make it to the summit and turned around then the scarier part was when we got to timbaline

[02:07:46] [SPEAKER_08]: the trees were being blown across the trail you had to go over or under or around the trees

[02:07:56] [SPEAKER_08]: we hiked back to another amc lean too which i believe was camp isolation on the main trail

[02:08:07] [SPEAKER_08]: at least we were sheltered out of the rain the only food in this lean too

[02:08:14] [SPEAKER_08]: was a bit of cold cereal also of course we were hungry we were wet on our hair and face the whole

[02:08:25] [SPEAKER_08]: time we spent another night in this lean too and we were certainly hungry at this point

[02:08:34] [SPEAKER_08]: and decided the next day that we had to get somewhere we got up in the morning

[02:08:42] [SPEAKER_08]: there was a puddle outside the lean too about three feet deep and 10 feet around it was still

[02:08:49] [SPEAKER_08]: raining but the wind was not as strong we started to hike up we made it to the lake of the clouds

[02:08:57] [SPEAKER_08]: hut where the college kids maintained it for the summer what a welcome relief they welcomed us

[02:09:06] [SPEAKER_08]: fed us and it was so nice to be dry and have food and warmth

[02:09:14] [SPEAKER_08]: then we learned about the tragedy of the hurricane on mount washington

[02:09:19] [SPEAKER_08]: during the latter part of the hurricane the hut crew decided they had to check something

[02:09:27] [SPEAKER_08]: they tied a rope around one of the guys and let him out the door

[02:09:32] [SPEAKER_08]: they let the rope out further and further and further to where there was a small stream

[02:09:43] [SPEAKER_08]: lo and behold the tragedy was that when the rain came and the wind came

[02:09:51] [SPEAKER_08]: much hotter all their beer and wine that they had put in the stream to cool had washed down

[02:09:58] [SPEAKER_08]: the mountain they reeled him back in and bemoaned the fact that all their liquid

[02:10:04] [SPEAKER_08]: would refreshment was gone we felt very lucky because we did get somewhere we did get food

[02:10:10] [SPEAKER_08]: and we were warm we still had to get up to the mountaintop the next day of course my parents

[02:10:16] [SPEAKER_08]: in clonk in new hamps were worried about what had happened to me after we settled in at the

[02:10:25] [SPEAKER_08]: lake of the clouds the call went out that we were okay the phone at the lake of the clouds only

[02:10:35] [SPEAKER_08]: went to the base it didn't go from the base out they used a ham radio they broadcast that we were

[02:10:45] [SPEAKER_08]: okay my parents were in the front hall of their house by the phone just ready to start out from

[02:10:53] [SPEAKER_08]: conquered to come up to see what had happened to me the phone rang and this person from portland

[02:11:01] [SPEAKER_08]: main who had a ham radio and picked up the call told them that we were safe so they didn't have

[02:11:10] [SPEAKER_08]: to come to the mountain the crew at the lake of the clouds told us to get up very early the

[02:11:15] [SPEAKER_08]: next morning which we did to watch the sunrise it was gorgeous we could see all the way to the

[02:11:24] [SPEAKER_08]: ocean it was so clear and finally we hiked to the top of the mountain that's about the whole

[02:11:32] [SPEAKER_08]: story i went up to the summit allison went to work and i took the carg vair way down

[02:11:42] [SPEAKER_08]: and hitchhiked all the way home all right stomp what do you think think you could have survived a

[02:11:59] [SPEAKER_03]: hurricane on um about washington hmm only if dav shits had put some rocks in my pack and

[02:12:08] [SPEAKER_03]: kept me on on the earth wait me down right right so um so i think we've run out of time

[02:12:17] [SPEAKER_11]: stomp so i think we're gonna have to skip to search and rescue segment and we'll do that next

[02:12:21] [SPEAKER_03]: show yeah that sounds good so it's all right good to be back and uh hey summer's coming to a close

[02:12:28] [SPEAKER_03]: be safe out there everybody it's uh it's gonna be a cool weekend up above uh tree line i'll be up

[02:12:33] [SPEAKER_03]: above tree line stomp so i'll dress warm excellent all right thank you for listening if you enjoyed

[02:12:42] [SPEAKER_09]: the show you can subscribe on apple podcasts spotify pod beans youtube or wherever you listen

[02:12:51] [SPEAKER_09]: podcasts if you want to learn more about the topics covered in today's show please check out

[02:12:56] [SPEAKER_09]: the show notes and safety information at slasherpodcast.com that's s l a s r podcast.com you can also

[02:13:07] [SPEAKER_09]: follow the show on facebook and instagram we hope you'll join us next week for another great show

[02:13:13] [SPEAKER_09]: until then on behalf of mike and stomp get out there and crush some mega

[02:13:20] [SPEAKER_09]: piece now covered in scratches blisters and bug bites christav wanted to complete his most

[02:13:27] [SPEAKER_06]: challenging day height ever fishing game officers say the hiker from florida activated an emergency

[02:13:33] [SPEAKER_06]: beacon yesterday morning he was hiking along the appellation trail when officials say the snow

[02:13:41] [SPEAKER_06]: was piled up to three feet in some spots and there was a wind shell of minus one degree

[02:13:50] [SPEAKER_07]: new hamster fishing game who's ended thanks for being with us today thanks for having me

[02:13:59] [SPEAKER_07]: what are some of the most common mistakes you see people make when they're heading out on the

[02:14:03] [SPEAKER_01]: trails to hike here in new hampshire seems to me the most common as being unprepared i think if

[02:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: they just simply visited uh hikesafe.com and got a list of the ten essential items and had those

[02:14:12] [SPEAKER_01]: in their packs they probably would have no need to ever call us at all