Episode 172 - Welcome Chris Gothberg, Self Rescue, Nick from PUDs Podcast, More White Mountains History

[00:00:08] Here is the latest Higher Summits forecast brought to you by our friends at the Mount Washington Observatory.

[00:00:18] Weather above treeline in the White Mountains is often wildly different than at our trailheads.

[00:00:25] Before you hike, check the Higher Summits forecast at mountwashington.org.

[00:00:31] Weather observers working at the non-profit Mount Washington Observatory

[00:00:36] Write this elevation-based forecast every morning and afternoon.

[00:00:41] Search and Rescue teams, avalanche experts, and backcountry guides all rely on the Higher Summits forecast

[00:00:48] to anticipate weather conditions above treeline. You should too.

[00:00:53] Go to mountwashington.org or text FORECAST to 603-356-2137

[00:01:07] And here's your forecast for the weekend of October 19th.

[00:01:12] Friday!

[00:01:13] In the clear under mostly sunny skies with a high in the lower 40s.

[00:01:17] Winds north shifting northwest at 25-40 mph,

[00:01:21] decreasing to 15-30 mph,

[00:01:23] with a wind chill rising to 25-35 above.

[00:01:27] Friday night in the clear under clear skies with a low in the upper 40s.

[00:01:32] Winds will be northwest at 15-30 mph,

[00:01:35] wind chill 25-35 above.

[00:01:38] Saturday!

[00:01:39] In the clear under increasingly cloudy skies with a high in the upper 40s.

[00:01:44] Northwest at 5-20 mph,

[00:01:47] becoming west at 15-30 mph.

[00:01:52] Wind chill will be 25-35 above.

[00:01:56] And then rising.

[00:01:59] With all the recent snow up above,

[00:02:01] be sure that you have your traction with you and have a really beautiful weekend.

[00:02:05] ...casting from the Woodpecker Studio in the great state of New Hampshire.

[00:02:45] Welcome to the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast,

[00:02:48] where we discuss all things related to hiking and search and rescue in the White Mountains of New Hampshire.

[00:02:55] Here are your hosts, Mike and Stomp.

[00:03:17] Okay, welcome to episode 172, Stomp.

[00:03:21] Howdy, how you doing?

[00:03:23] Good, good.

[00:03:24] We have a crowd in the Woodpecker Studio tonight.

[00:03:27] A lot of people.

[00:03:29] Hi, Nick.

[00:03:29] Hi, Chris.

[00:03:30] Hey, how you doing?

[00:03:32] What's up?

[00:03:32] We have a couple of scragglers.

[00:03:34] Scragglers, right.

[00:03:36] Chris, you said you're allergic to cats, or you did Stomp play?

[00:03:40] I am, but it's...

[00:03:42] As long as I'm not.

[00:03:44] Yeah, they're in another room.

[00:03:45] As long as I don't pet them, I'm good.

[00:03:47] I think being allergic to cats means you're automatically good people,

[00:03:52] because your biology understands to keep those rats away from you.

[00:03:58] The rats.

[00:04:00] It's harsh.

[00:04:00] Oh my God, thankfully they're not in here to hear that.

[00:04:04] Hey, Stomp, I had a question for you.

[00:04:06] How long have we known each other for? Like 14 years?

[00:04:10] Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:13] Almost as long as my first marriage.

[00:04:14] Yeah, we can delete this if you don't want to go down here, but like, do you smoke?

[00:04:19] Did I see a picture of you smoking a cigarette?

[00:04:22] What is that?

[00:04:23] That was a nod.

[00:04:25] We were huge Leftovers fan.

[00:04:27] That was a series that was on HBO, and it's like an end of the world rapture type of psychodrama, really.

[00:04:36] And that was taken several years ago on the finale.

[00:04:41] So we dressed up as some of the characters in the show itself.

[00:04:45] But no, I don't smoke.

[00:04:47] I was gonna say.

[00:04:48] I was like, I didn't even know.

[00:04:49] Is that a cigarette you thought I was smoking?

[00:04:51] No, well...

[00:04:53] I figured it was probably Pose, but I also ended up looking up what the show was, so that was kinda cool.

[00:04:57] It's phenomenal.

[00:04:58] Yeah, it's really good.

[00:04:59] But I, just so I'm not lying here, I did smoke that cigarette when the picture was taken.

[00:05:04] Oh, you did smoke it?

[00:05:06] Did you like get a, did you get like a head brush on it?

[00:05:09] Uh, I don't remember.

[00:05:11] Yeah, who knows?

[00:05:12] But it's smoking is not a very nice thing.

[00:05:14] It's pretty gross.

[00:05:15] Cause I was like, wait a minute.

[00:05:16] I did smoke that cigarette.

[00:05:17] Cause I was like, stop one of those like, like covert smokers.

[00:05:21] And I didn't even know.

[00:05:22] Okay, that makes me feel better.

[00:05:24] Just find him alone in the woods smoking a cigarette.

[00:05:28] Okay.

[00:05:28] Burning down the woods with my cigs.

[00:05:31] Yeah, alright.

[00:05:31] So welcome to episode 172 of the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast.

[00:05:35] This week we are joined for our listener spotlight with Chris Gothberg.

[00:05:39] Hello, Chris.

[00:05:40] Hey.

[00:05:41] Alright, so Chris is a hiker, trail runner, and photographer who's gonna share some stories

[00:05:45] of his recent hikes in and around the whites.

[00:05:47] Um, I'll ask him to highlight.

[00:05:49] I'm interested in talking about Western New Hampshire.

[00:05:51] Cause we don't really cover that that much.

[00:05:53] And then Stomp is gonna give some tips on self-rescue.

[00:05:57] When should you and when should you not self-rescue?

[00:06:01] And then also sitting in with us is one half of the popular PUDS podcast, Nick Sidla.

[00:06:07] So hello, Nick.

[00:06:08] Hello.

[00:06:09] Hey, what's up?

[00:06:10] And so Nick is going to add his perspective on a variety of topics,

[00:06:14] including, we're gonna cover a lot tonight.

[00:06:16] New Hampshire trails get overrun with poorly behaving tourists,

[00:06:20] mostly from Massachusetts during leaf season.

[00:06:23] Um, and it's all Stomp's fault.

[00:06:25] Plus, snow has arrived on the higher summits this week.

[00:06:28] We've got moose safety tips.

[00:06:31] Um, we've got space and alien news.

[00:06:34] Um, safety course info on avalanches and snowmobiles.

[00:06:37] And we've got some history segments.

[00:06:39] So Stomp's gonna look back at the case of a Dartmouth student who went missing on an

[00:06:44] Oden Club hike in 2019.

[00:06:46] And then I'll share some, uh, old school AMC snowshoe trip itinerary from the February of 1908

[00:06:54] from the Appalachia Bulletin.

[00:06:56] And then we're gonna review a trip report to the site of the old man on Cannon,

[00:07:01] which is from summer of 1908.

[00:07:03] Plus Stomp hikes Lafayette.

[00:07:05] And we will cover recent search and rescue news.

[00:07:07] So I'm Mike.

[00:07:09] And I'm Stomp.

[00:07:10] Let's get started.

[00:07:30] Let's get started.

[00:07:31] I got a little froggy throat tonight, Stomp.

[00:07:33] Dude, what else is new?

[00:07:35] I'm always sick.

[00:07:36] I'm like a sickly little fella.

[00:07:39] It's very sultry though.

[00:07:40] It's not completely awful.

[00:07:42] Okay.

[00:07:43] Well, we have a professional podcaster with us, Stomp, in case I need to tap out and Nick

[00:07:47] can step in.

[00:07:48] Yeah, that's true.

[00:07:49] Right.

[00:07:50] Right.

[00:07:51] So, um, so I want to start the show off with a happy eighth anniversary to Red Line Guiding.

[00:07:56] So shout out to Mike Chairman, his crew, uh, eight years.

[00:07:59] And, uh, if you're looking for a guide service in the whites or, uh, any educational, um,

[00:08:04] opportunities that they're the place to go.

[00:08:06] So check them out.

[00:08:06] We'll throw a link in our show notes for them.

[00:08:09] And then, uh, we want to start this episode out with, uh, talking about the absolute debacle

[00:08:15] that was Artist Bluff last weekend.

[00:08:17] So safety concerns raised as peak foliage draws crowds in New Hampshire.

[00:08:22] Officials report several rescues, apparently from Artist Bluff.

[00:08:27] So if we, if you go back a couple of episodes, we talked about fall foliage hike recommendations.

[00:08:32] Stomp explicitly recommended Artist Bluff.

[00:08:34] And now the whole, the whole state of Massachusetts found out about it.

[00:08:39] Yeah, that's true.

[00:08:40] It's just a coincidence.

[00:08:42] Yeah.

[00:08:42] So this is Stomp's fault.

[00:08:43] So there's 1500 parking spaces in Cannon's tram parking lot.

[00:08:47] And, um, they were all filled up this week.

[00:08:50] And then this also, somebody took a picture.

[00:08:53] It was, um, Tamara bro took a picture of, um, everybody going up to our, I never been to

[00:08:59] this place.

[00:09:00] So I don't know what it's like, but it looks like a pretty narrow trail and there's a million

[00:09:03] people up there trying to get up and down.

[00:09:06] And one person said they actually cried going down.

[00:09:09] They were so traumatized.

[00:09:11] Because of all the people?

[00:09:12] Yeah.

[00:09:12] Yeah.

[00:09:13] Yeah.

[00:09:14] So, um, but anyway, the place got totally trashed and there was, um, some New Hampshire

[00:09:20] State Park personnel went up there with some trash bags filled up a couple of bags.

[00:09:24] And then there was a couple of other tourists that went up there and, um, picked up a couple

[00:09:30] of more trash bags.

[00:09:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:09:32] Now the legislature in New Hampshire is thinking about like putting in a permit system that

[00:09:36] it was on national news stomp.

[00:09:39] Well, it might be time.

[00:09:41] I mean, that probably is not a bad idea.

[00:09:45] I could imagine that there could be some accident that happens up there with that many

[00:09:49] people on that little cliff.

[00:09:50] It's not very wide.

[00:09:52] Yeah.

[00:09:52] It's maybe 15, 20 feet of open ledge before that couple hundred foot drop.

[00:09:58] Yeah.

[00:09:59] I mean, it is a nice view, but my view is like the, the, one of the things, and we'll talk

[00:10:03] with Chris about this a little bit more, but to me getting an awesome photo, part of the

[00:10:08] fun about that is finding an angle or a place that not a lot of people get to.

[00:10:15] So that's, that's the trick.

[00:10:17] Like this is just like everybody, everybody's taking that picture.

[00:10:20] Spread the word.

[00:10:21] Yeah.

[00:10:22] I gotta admit though.

[00:10:22] I mean, you guys have been there.

[00:10:24] Yeah.

[00:10:24] Oh yeah.

[00:10:25] It's awesome.

[00:10:26] It's a lot more fun off season.

[00:10:28] True.

[00:10:29] It's beautiful.

[00:10:30] Whatever.

[00:10:30] But yeah, it's, it's gorgeous.

[00:10:31] I've been on the bluff itself too much cause I went around the same time a couple years

[00:10:36] ago and, uh, it was a similar thing, like a continuous line of people going up, people going

[00:10:43] down, then you got out to the bluff and there were 20 people there.

[00:10:47] I was with my family.

[00:10:47] So we just took a quick look and got out of there.

[00:10:50] But on the other side of the loop on bald mountain, people must just go to the bluff and

[00:10:55] come down.

[00:10:56] If you go to the other side, for some reason it's much less busy.

[00:11:00] I was going to say, I love bald mountain.

[00:11:01] Yeah.

[00:11:01] The view is great.

[00:11:02] Not to, not to blow that one too.

[00:11:03] That's going to be the next one that gets taken over, but it's a great spot for sunset.

[00:11:07] It does have a little sort of ledge scrimp, I guess sort of just a steep ledge to

[00:11:10] the top.

[00:11:10] So maybe that deter, deter some people as post artist bluff, but it's accessible.

[00:11:14] That's the trick.

[00:11:15] Yeah.

[00:11:15] It's right there.

[00:11:16] It's so accessible.

[00:11:17] Yeah.

[00:11:17] And honestly, like I do, I don't think it's a horrible thing that like, at least if they're

[00:11:21] all flooding to one location, they're not, it's more manageable if they do want to put

[00:11:26] in a permit system or like, to me, what I would do is just charge like 10, $15 seasonally

[00:11:31] during foliage season to get into that parking lot.

[00:11:34] And then maybe I, my understanding is somebody said that there was buses that were dropping

[00:11:38] people off.

[00:11:38] So maybe that's the issue.

[00:11:41] Did that throw a wrench in?

[00:11:42] Cause that's like the overflow parking for Franconia Ridge too.

[00:11:44] Oh, sure.

[00:11:45] Yeah.

[00:11:46] Well that's Cannon Tram generally.

[00:11:48] Oh, gotcha.

[00:11:49] It's the opposite side.

[00:11:51] Right.

[00:11:51] Correct.

[00:11:51] So that's 32C is the, um, uh, Bald Mountain Artist Blodge, Echo Lake.

[00:11:59] B is the tram, which will pick people up and bring them down.

[00:12:02] Gotcha.

[00:12:02] Okay.

[00:12:02] I actually thought it was from, yeah, they may pick them up at Artist Blonde.

[00:12:05] I'm sure there were people everywhere though.

[00:12:07] If there was 1500 in that lot.

[00:12:09] Yeah.

[00:12:09] Incredible time.

[00:12:10] Yeah.

[00:12:10] It's nuts.

[00:12:11] Took me an hour getting through the notch.

[00:12:14] Jeez Louise.

[00:12:15] From 32.

[00:12:16] Yeah.

[00:12:16] 32 up to trailhead parking an hour.

[00:12:21] Yikes.

[00:12:22] All right.

[00:12:22] And then, um, the other big news is, so we got the foliage news and then this is the

[00:12:27] time of the year where we can get the, uh, the snow and the foliage mix photos.

[00:12:31] So that's something you got to keep an eye on.

[00:12:33] So 17 inches of snow on the summit of Mount Washington this week.

[00:12:37] Phew.

[00:12:38] Amazing.

[00:12:39] Great pictures out there.

[00:12:41] Yeah.

[00:12:41] I mean, it's time to make sure your pack is ready for that.

[00:12:44] Yeah.

[00:12:45] I haven't looked at the higher summer forecast yet, but I don't know if it's going to

[00:12:48] warm up enough to melt any of this.

[00:12:49] This may be like permanent snow.

[00:12:52] Uh, to a degree.

[00:12:53] I think above tree line, it won't break, um, you know, melting points.

[00:12:57] But, uh, yeah.

[00:12:59] So there'll definitely be something up there over the weekend, but it looks like it's going

[00:13:04] to be really nice and warm down below.

[00:13:06] Yeah.

[00:13:06] And this weekend is going to be killer.

[00:13:08] I think it's going to be clear most of the weekend.

[00:13:10] And tonight we have a full moon.

[00:13:12] So this is a hunter's moon stomp.

[00:13:14] What is a, what exactly defines a hunter's moon?

[00:13:18] I don't know.

[00:13:19] It is a super moon though, which is interesting because this is the third consecutive super

[00:13:24] moon that we've had this season.

[00:13:27] And, uh, it's bound to cause problems with this episode.

[00:13:30] Stomp.

[00:13:31] If you're going to put something like that on the script, you should like define it.

[00:13:35] Uh, you know, my, I was assuming it was because it's hunting season.

[00:13:39] Oh.

[00:13:40] And it's to the advantage of the hunters.

[00:13:42] It's just the October full moon basically.

[00:13:45] Right?

[00:13:45] Yeah.

[00:13:46] Yeah.

[00:13:46] But it's, it's labeled hunter's moon.

[00:13:48] Right, right, right.

[00:13:50] Like the last one was harvest moon, right?

[00:13:52] Harvest.

[00:13:53] Sounds right.

[00:13:54] All right.

[00:13:55] Well, I'll try to do some research, um, because stomp didn't bother and I'll try to get all

[00:13:59] the names of the moons seasonally for the listeners.

[00:14:02] That's a new moon chart.

[00:14:04] Okay.

[00:14:05] Um, next up we've got housekeeping stomp.

[00:14:07] So we are going to be off next week.

[00:14:09] I'm doing some traveling and then, um, we'll be back.

[00:14:13] I don't have the calendar in front of me, but, um, let me see.

[00:14:17] I can do the guest.

[00:14:17] I mean, so it's the 18th tomorrow we'll have the show out and then on the 25th, we will

[00:14:22] not have a show and then we'll have another show coming back in early November.

[00:14:27] Right.

[00:14:27] The first we'll be back.

[00:14:29] We have a couple more great guests coming up.

[00:14:30] We've got obviously the reckless things coming up on the 16th.

[00:14:33] Um, rescue me is coming up and, um, we'll finish out the year with, uh, sit down for

[00:14:39] two episodes with Ty Gagney to review his new book, which will be released the week after

[00:14:44] the 16th after the reckless, uh, event.

[00:14:48] So that's going to be a great way to finish the year.

[00:14:51] A deep dive on his latest book, which I can tell you is pretty freaking amazing.

[00:14:55] Yeah.

[00:14:55] Yeah.

[00:14:56] It's, it's sweet.

[00:14:57] So, um, all right.

[00:14:59] So a couple more things.

[00:15:00] So we had Stacy Manny on last week.

[00:15:02] She had given us an update on, um, recovery efforts for hurricane Helene.

[00:15:08] So she had provided us with an address where if you want to mail stuff, um, supplies and

[00:15:14] things like that, she's going to be grabbing a trailer and driving up there.

[00:15:17] So, um, we'll put her address in the show notes so people can check it out.

[00:15:23] But if you want to just write it down, if you're listening, it's 942 Yorktown drive in Charleston,

[00:15:28] South Carolina.

[00:15:29] And the zip code is 29412.

[00:15:34] So, um, yeah, if you want to send anything to Stacy, she gave a rundown on what's what they

[00:15:37] need, but, uh, we'll put that in our show notes and, um, stomp also put a note in here

[00:15:43] just saying that there are two tropical storms flowing down in the Caribbean and the, uh, the

[00:15:53] hurricane season.

[00:15:55] Yeah, hopefully.

[00:15:56] Yep.

[00:15:57] Yeah.

[00:15:57] They said they have like a 20% chance of developing.

[00:15:59] So hopefully it's nothing.

[00:16:01] Hmm.

[00:16:02] So, okay.

[00:16:03] And, and I, we can vouch for Stacy.

[00:16:05] Stacy's not going to run with your gear.

[00:16:07] She's legit.

[00:16:08] So yeah, don't worry about sending your gear for no purpose.

[00:16:12] Yes.

[00:16:13] Yeah.

[00:16:13] You'll, uh, she'll get it over to the right people.

[00:16:16] So Nick, um, just wanted to catch up with you quickly.

[00:16:19] So PUDS podcast, you want to run, remind the listeners, what, what is the PUDS

[00:16:23] podcast?

[00:16:24] So, uh, we're the, uh, pointless up and downs podcast.

[00:16:26] So we're a podcast about hiking and everything you talk about while hiking.

[00:16:30] Um, kind of came up with the name cause it seems like everybody knows about pointless up

[00:16:33] and downs being New Hampshire hikers.

[00:16:35] So, uh, it's kind of float in.

[00:16:37] Um, we primarily hiking, we, we talk about sort of a lot of tangential topics as sort

[00:16:41] of mentioned by our tagline, but, uh, been at it for maybe like a year and a half

[00:16:45] ish kind of coming up on two years and having a lot of fun.

[00:16:48] Yeah.

[00:16:49] Yeah, no, it's great.

[00:16:49] I've been listening lately.

[00:16:50] I listened to the whole Philip Kasha episode.

[00:16:53] So you had Philip Kasha, who's a pretty prolific hiker, um, and around in and around the white.

[00:16:57] So he was awesome.

[00:16:59] Um, and then you just had a Himalayas segment.

[00:17:02] So you want to talk a little bit about some of those recent episodes.

[00:17:05] Yeah.

[00:17:05] So the, the Philip Kasha episode was really interesting.

[00:17:08] Um, needless to say, we had plenty to talk about with some of his accomplishments and sort

[00:17:12] of his mindset and sort of combining, I guess, performance art and sort of, uh, photography,

[00:17:17] videography sort of with what he does.

[00:17:18] So that was an interesting perspective.

[00:17:20] And to hear where he, where he sort of came from, um, from central mass in Worcester and

[00:17:24] a big watch you sit hiker, which I've hiked a bunch.

[00:17:26] So I found that super interesting.

[00:17:27] And then we're super lucky that, uh, our best friends, Lori and Mike actually went to the

[00:17:31] Himalayas a few years back.

[00:17:32] So we kind of took advantage of having them on and heard about their experience, um, checking

[00:17:36] up to ever space camp, um, or their attempt, I should say, to trek up to ever space camp.

[00:17:40] So doesn't, uh, doesn't he have like a record on what you sit, like the most descents or 24

[00:17:46] hours?

[00:17:47] Yeah.

[00:17:47] So one thing that, uh, Philip Karsh has been working on for, uh, for, I think it's for

[00:17:51] summits for solidarity, but he actually did, I believe it was 29 summits of watch use in

[00:17:55] a calendar day.

[00:17:56] So midnight to midnight, um, which was pretty like incredible.

[00:18:01] I'm like, I don't know.

[00:18:02] Also, it's, it's one of those things too, where it's like to, to want to do that also

[00:18:06] is a lot, like, especially up like a one mile trail with like probably a thousand,

[00:18:10] 1500 feet of elevation gain.

[00:18:11] He was saying the stats that he ended up tolling too, but I think it was like 60,000 feet or

[00:18:15] something ridiculous.

[00:18:16] I'm speaking off the cuff on that one.

[00:18:17] I don't know what the exact stat was, but it's, it's a whole lot of elevation gain and

[00:18:21] racking that up.

[00:18:22] Um, he's quite the athlete.

[00:18:24] Yeah.

[00:18:24] And, um, his other sort of thing that we dove a bunch into, which I found, um, interesting

[00:18:28] was the consecutive single year grid.

[00:18:30] So basically gridding through all the New Hampshire 48, 576 summits throughout the course

[00:18:36] of the year and sort of talked a little bit about the strategy behind that.

[00:18:38] Um, it was, it was pretty interesting to say the least.

[00:18:43] Excellent.

[00:18:43] And now you're 54 episodes in Nick, what is your philosophy about like pod?

[00:18:47] So now you've got enough perspective.

[00:18:49] Like, do you have like a, um, a view on podcasting?

[00:18:53] Do you feel like you've hit your stride or, um, do you think you still have more to learn?

[00:18:58] Um, I think we still get a lot more to learn, especially looking at you guys doing what are

[00:19:02] you guys?

[00:19:02] 170 something episodes deep now.

[00:19:04] So I find that pretty impressive where we're, we're, we're starting to get up to more of

[00:19:07] a regular cadence where we're probably dropping about four episodes, um, a month, somewhere

[00:19:11] like that.

[00:19:11] And we're starting to kind of reach out to some people for guests and stuff.

[00:19:14] I think I've gotten a little bit less, more timid about, um, maybe messaging people

[00:19:17] and being like, Hey, would you want to come on?

[00:19:19] Cause to me it's like the worst they can do is just say no to us.

[00:19:21] We don't want to be on your stupid podcast.

[00:19:23] So it's kind of getting a little bit more comfortable.

[00:19:25] Uh, and again, we're, you guys are definitely on the list for us to have on at some point

[00:19:28] as well.

[00:19:29] And, uh, you know, but it's, it's been interesting to me.

[00:19:31] It's, it's still just fun.

[00:19:32] So that's why we do it.

[00:19:33] Uh, as long as it's fun, we'll continue to do it.

[00:19:35] And if there's some side perks and benefits of like just getting to know people better and

[00:19:39] stuff, then it's yeah, it's just part of the gig.

[00:19:42] The community.

[00:19:43] Yep.

[00:19:44] Exactly.

[00:19:44] Yeah.

[00:19:46] Yeah.

[00:19:46] Yeah.

[00:19:46] And the guest thing is, it is tricky.

[00:19:48] It's like the first couple of times you have a guest, like it's, it's the timing is always

[00:19:51] a little bit weird and like the, making sure that the questions flow and getting to the

[00:19:55] point where you don't just a hundred percent rely on your script and you just go off script

[00:19:59] and it sounds more natural.

[00:20:00] It takes some time.

[00:20:01] You know, I don't think we're experts at all, but, um, you get better over time.

[00:20:06] I feel like.

[00:20:07] Yeah.

[00:20:07] We're working on it.

[00:20:08] One big thing that has changed.

[00:20:09] And I think I'd probably took that after talking to you, Mike, even to, or both and talking

[00:20:13] to both you guys, but we actually kind of do more outlines of like what we're going to

[00:20:16] talk about now, episode to episode.

[00:20:17] Um, so that's definitely helped flow things a little bit.

[00:20:20] And I, even like with the Philip Karsh episode, I kind of just made notes ahead of time to

[00:20:23] be like, Hey, like if we run into not like we didn't end up running into a sort of dead

[00:20:27] end of a conversation with him, I feel like that would have been kind of impossible.

[00:20:30] But if we did, I kind of had something to be like, Hey, we can keep the conversation

[00:20:33] going and here's like a list of questions and things that I thought interesting.

[00:20:35] So I do think it's funny, like on the spot, like your, your mind tends to go blank when

[00:20:39] you're like, Oh, what do I ask somebody now?

[00:20:40] It's like, Oh crap.

[00:20:41] Like what, what do we, what do we say to keep this thing kind of flowing?

[00:20:44] Yeah.

[00:20:45] I'll tell you guys a funny story.

[00:20:47] Stop.

[00:20:47] I don't even think I told you this, but like, I don't know if you go on Reddit or not.

[00:20:50] I go on occasionally, but, um, there was a, there was a thread about the podcast on

[00:20:54] Reddit and it was like, it turned into a hate fest, but wait, wait, wait for us.

[00:20:58] Yeah.

[00:20:59] Don't look just do yourself.

[00:21:02] I've never even looked at us.

[00:21:04] Yeah.

[00:21:05] I don't want to give two.

[00:21:06] I could give two.

[00:21:07] I really can.

[00:21:08] I know you could, but I mean, they all like me.

[00:21:10] They don't like you, but, um, I don't, but a couple of people, they go on and they were

[00:21:14] like, I prefer the puds podcast.

[00:21:15] And I was like, Oh my God, I got to tell Nick, he's going to be so proud.

[00:21:19] So, so we got, it's funny.

[00:21:21] Cause we, we, we have like a little fan mail link in, uh, um, the one comment that stood

[00:21:25] out to me, not that we, we got a lot, but there was one, I think it was on the episode.

[00:21:28] We did actually after the, uh, the 48 peaks hiker celebration with like Gale head and stuff,

[00:21:32] where I joined you guys and we sort of chatted about that a little bit.

[00:21:34] Um, and someone was basically like, they're like, Oh, this was a good episode.

[00:21:38] Enjoyed listening.

[00:21:39] But like, I guess Josh doesn't talk that much.

[00:21:41] Maybe he talks more on other episodes.

[00:21:42] I'd like to hear more Josh.

[00:21:44] And I'm like, dude, so you don't like to listen to me talking for what?

[00:21:47] Did I talk too much on that episode?

[00:21:48] Like what was, what was the deal?

[00:21:49] It was like sort of passive aggressive and the way it was worded of like, I don't really

[00:21:52] like that.

[00:21:53] I think Nick talks too much.

[00:21:54] And I think it's funny cause in real life, Josh is much more talkative than I am usually.

[00:21:58] So I'm like, I'm usually trying to get an ad, like trying to edge myself in.

[00:22:01] Yeah.

[00:22:03] Well, congratulations.

[00:22:04] It's, you know, getting over 50 episodes is a great accomplishment and then I've been

[00:22:07] enjoying it.

[00:22:08] So, uh, it's on my regular rotation.

[00:22:10] Um, thanks for listening.

[00:22:11] No problem.

[00:22:12] I'll give you, I do need to give you a five star review.

[00:22:14] So I'll get that.

[00:22:15] I'll get that going soon.

[00:22:16] Appreciate it.

[00:22:17] Appreciate it.

[00:22:18] All right.

[00:22:19] Now, um, speaking of, of Josh, um, we've got a story about a moose here.

[00:22:24] So, um, I don't know why I connected that, but anyway, um, Stomp, why don't you do this

[00:22:31] one?

[00:22:31] I don't know the backstory.

[00:22:33] Yeah.

[00:22:34] We got a nice video here that was posted by fit to hike 603.

[00:22:37] And it's a, it's a giant bull moose walking down trail towards, uh, this hiking group.

[00:22:42] And, uh, the video is amazing.

[00:22:44] And, um, just to tap into that, um, I dug up some tips on what to happen, what to do

[00:22:52] if that situation happens to you, because this moose was like probably within 20 feet

[00:22:56] and it was coming right at them calmly, but something like that could be pretty dangerous

[00:23:00] very quickly.

[00:23:01] So the AMC does have a couple of tips here.

[00:23:04] They have a warning sign such as, um, let's see, they lay back their ears.

[00:23:10] This can happen really quick too, by the way.

[00:23:12] So the ears can lay back.

[00:23:13] The hair in the back of their neck may stand up.

[00:23:16] Uh, they could smack their lips, show the whites of their eyes, toss their head upward

[00:23:20] like a horse or even urinate on their back legs.

[00:23:23] So if you see any of those warning signs, it's, it's a good indication that you better

[00:23:27] get behind a tree or definitely get out of the way period.

[00:23:32] Um, if a moose does charge you, if you have a confrontational moose, the best thing you

[00:23:37] can do is to run, do not stand your ground.

[00:23:41] Uh, unlike, uh, say a bear confrontation.

[00:23:44] So get as much space between you and the moose and you will, uh, fear much better, uh, than

[00:23:52] standing your ground.

[00:23:53] So a couple of points there and just be on guard in general.

[00:23:57] I think when you watch that video, you'd be shocked.

[00:23:59] That moose is maybe 20 feet away from them.

[00:24:01] Um, they're walking right up to it and all of a sudden it comes on trail and starts coming

[00:24:05] to them, which is pretty unusual for a moose.

[00:24:08] Yeah.

[00:24:09] And I will say like kudos to them for like, they definitely kept like enough space between

[00:24:13] them and the, uh, the moose, but there's nowhere for them to go.

[00:24:16] It looks like it was on, it's an Edmonds path and it looks like it's in that side hill.

[00:24:20] So you've got like one side of the trail that's like super steep.

[00:24:24] And then the other side that drops into a drainage.

[00:24:26] So there's really nowhere for you to just go right off the trail in that situation.

[00:24:30] So, um, you gotta keep your distance.

[00:24:34] Right.

[00:24:35] And you can't blow them up.

[00:24:36] That's, that's unfortunate.

[00:24:39] So apparently there is a moratorium on blowing up horses in Wyoming.

[00:24:44] Do you guys know about this?

[00:24:45] No.

[00:24:46] Yeah, no, this is like, it sounds like it's right out of Monty.

[00:24:49] I'm like, what?

[00:24:50] It's like right out of Monty Python.

[00:24:52] It sounds like, but if, if there's a dead horse in Wyoming, they will blow it up so that

[00:24:59] it doesn't attract grizzly bears.

[00:25:01] But right now, because of the wildfires, there's a moratorium on blowing up dead horses.

[00:25:07] This is such a weird scenario.

[00:25:08] It really is strange.

[00:25:11] Yeah, it's a whole different way of life out there.

[00:25:14] Do the horses like, when they die, do they like, does gas expand their stomach or something?

[00:25:19] Is that what happens?

[00:25:21] I'm not sure, but there's plenty of meat there for grizzlies to chew on.

[00:25:26] Yeah, that's true.

[00:25:26] That's the whole reasoning behind it, I suppose.

[00:25:30] All right.

[00:25:31] It's an interesting idea.

[00:25:33] Moving right along here, Stomp, we've got an Australian hiker fatally crushed by a tree

[00:25:38] on a grueling Yosemite hike.

[00:25:41] So an Australian hiker was killed by a fallen tree on a strenuous trail on Yosemite National

[00:25:47] Park last week.

[00:25:48] So this was in October.

[00:25:50] So yeah, it was early October.

[00:25:53] 22 year old man.

[00:25:54] His name is Harry Partington.

[00:25:56] That's a very Australian name.

[00:25:58] I feel like.

[00:25:59] Yeah, it sure is.

[00:26:00] Was crushed by a tree on October 8th on four mile trail.

[00:26:04] I don't know where that is.

[00:26:05] I wasn't, I didn't go on that when I was in Yosemite, but he was walking around 2.30

[00:26:11] PM when the tree fell.

[00:26:12] And I guess another person was injured and received medical treatment.

[00:26:17] Uh, this was a woman from Germany who was not associated with Partington and she was hoisted by a helicopter.

[00:26:24] Um, they're not releasing any additional details, but yeah, there was definitely a lot of like trees and blow downs and stuff like that when I was in Yosemite.

[00:26:31] So I'm not shocked, but, um, you know, that's like getting hit by lightning.

[00:26:36] Oh, it's so strange.

[00:26:37] Yes.

[00:26:38] It's definitely an unusual story.

[00:26:40] It happens up here, but yeah.

[00:26:42] Yeah.

[00:26:42] Don't not go to Yosemite because you're afraid.

[00:26:45] Oh no.

[00:26:45] Is it yellow?

[00:26:46] No, it's so on the script stomp, you have a yellow stone, but it's really Yosemite.

[00:26:54] Oh, oopsie.

[00:26:56] Yeah.

[00:26:56] Well, speaking of the script, there's another thing that you do that I don't like.

[00:27:00] Um, you know how that we have the hyperlinks on the, um, the script.

[00:27:04] Yeah.

[00:27:05] I typically, I've been doing better with that.

[00:27:07] Haven't I?

[00:27:08] You've been, uh, no.

[00:27:10] So on the hyperlinks, I liked the bullet point, the hyperlink to be at the very beginning of the bullet point.

[00:27:17] And then any notes or information after that, you put the notes and information before the bullet point and then the hyperlink at the end.

[00:27:25] I don't like that.

[00:27:26] Got it.

[00:27:26] Got it.

[00:27:27] All right.

[00:27:28] And I, I do this while I'm driving generally too, which is very dangerous.

[00:27:32] So maybe that's the reason.

[00:27:33] Maybe I should pull over and focus a little more on my effort.

[00:27:36] Do better.

[00:27:39] Chris, I have a question for you.

[00:27:40] Do you believe in aliens?

[00:27:44] I would say no.

[00:27:45] You would say no.

[00:27:46] Is there evidence otherwise?

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:48] Um, Nick, what about you?

[00:27:50] Do you believe in aliens?

[00:27:52] Um, I probably have a, and more of an open mind.

[00:27:55] I do believe that if aliens exist, it's probably not worthy of us even worrying about them because they're probably far advanced.

[00:28:00] Um, it's anything that we understand.

[00:28:03] So it's not like something I worry about on the regular, I would say.

[00:28:06] Okay.

[00:28:06] All right.

[00:28:06] Well, um, we've got a couple of space in, uh, alien stories here.

[00:28:11] So we'll talk about the alien story afterwards, but first we want to congratulate Elon Musk, um, who had successfully landed a, what is it called?

[00:28:21] A Titan rocket or something like that.

[00:28:22] He basically landed this rocket back into this, like, um, crane thing that catches the rocket.

[00:28:30] So, uh, it was pretty impressive.

[00:28:31] So we'll include it in the show notes, the video, but it looks like something you'd see CGI out of a movie.

[00:28:37] But, uh, it looks like essentially this was the final test so that now they feel confident enough that they can utilize this to, to, um, to shoot people to Mars when the, when the orbital window opens for it.

[00:28:50] Hmm. You guys see that video? Unbelievable.

[00:28:52] I did. Yeah.

[00:28:53] It brought a tear to my eye. It looks so incredible.

[00:28:56] Yeah. Look.

[00:28:56] But this thing is just to put it in perspective, it's 23 stories high, 250 feet of base.

[00:29:03] Basically it's like the statue of Liberty coming down and it was just the secondary booster section that came back.

[00:29:08] So in the past they would just fall into the ocean, get destroyed or whatever.

[00:29:12] But now it actually comes back, comes back home.

[00:29:16] It's amazing. Absolutely stunning engineering feat.

[00:29:20] So just need to find some volunteers now.

[00:29:22] Yeah.

[00:29:24] If they decided to like, they needed astronauts, but they were like, well, chances are that anyone we sent to Mars, like you're going to live there the rest of your life and you're going to die there.

[00:29:34] And we want to bring people that are like in their fifties.

[00:29:38] Would you volunteer to go and die on Mars?

[00:29:42] No, hell no.

[00:29:44] It's, it's too early.

[00:29:46] Maybe 30 years out from now when it's a little more stable, but I mean, geez, we just had people stuck up there.

[00:29:51] They're, they're still stuck up there.

[00:29:53] Aren't they? Those two astronauts.

[00:29:55] I mean, it's just too fragile right now.

[00:29:57] All this stuff.

[00:29:58] I would never.

[00:29:59] How about you?

[00:29:59] No, I got kids.

[00:30:01] Yeah.

[00:30:02] Same here.

[00:30:02] I'd stick around.

[00:30:03] I'm going to be a burden to my family.

[00:30:07] You're going to be getting old and they're going to be like, we can send them to Mars.

[00:30:09] Like dad, Mars sounds like a great idea.

[00:30:11] Right.

[00:30:12] I think what you want to say is more of a burden to your family.

[00:30:15] More of a burden.

[00:30:15] That's true.

[00:30:16] That's true.

[00:30:17] All right.

[00:30:18] So now onto the alien story here.

[00:30:20] So there is this project, you know how Mark Zuckerberg has that like, um, compound in Hawaii.

[00:30:27] Yeah.

[00:30:28] Yeah.

[00:30:28] So supposedly like he has like the survivalist compound in Hawaii and I have a theory I'm

[00:30:34] going to talk about in a minute, but right now Zuckerberg funds this nonprofit organization,

[00:30:41] which is called the breakthrough listening project.

[00:30:44] Okay.

[00:30:45] And the purpose of breakthrough listening is that they are, um, an organization that seeks

[00:30:52] to find evidence of civilizations beyond earth.

[00:30:56] The scope and power of their search is on an unprecedented scale.

[00:31:01] The program includes a survey of the million closest stars to earth, and it will scan the

[00:31:08] center of our galaxy in the entire galactic plane beyond the Milky Way.

[00:31:12] It listens for messages from the hundred closest galaxies to ours.

[00:31:16] The instruments use are among the world's most powerful.

[00:31:20] They are 50 times more sensitive than existing telescopes dedicated to the search for intelligence.

[00:31:26] The radio surveys that they're doing covered 10 times more of the sky than previous programs.

[00:31:31] And they also cover at least five times more of the radio spectrum and do it a hundred times

[00:31:36] faster.

[00:31:37] They are sensitive enough to hear a common aircraft radar transmitted to us from any of the thousand

[00:31:43] near its stars.

[00:31:45] So basically what they're saying is that if there's a radio signal out there, they will pick

[00:31:50] it up.

[00:31:50] All right.

[00:31:51] So in 2019, so in April and May of 2019, um, there was a radio signal that was detected

[00:32:01] and observed in Australia.

[00:32:03] So this radio signal was from a planet that there was referenced BLC one, which is short for,

[00:32:11] um, breakthrough listening planet one.

[00:32:17] Right.

[00:32:18] And the radio signal was observed in Australia and it was, it was in 2019.

[00:32:25] It was first reported at the end of 2020.

[00:32:28] And by late 2021 researchers had indicated that they had enough evidence to determine that

[00:32:34] the signal was actually some kind of earth related interference.

[00:32:39] So basically what came out is that there was people anxiously awaiting the signal and it came

[00:32:45] out that they felt like it was, it was basically like interference from earth.

[00:32:49] Now everyone sort of forgot about it.

[00:32:51] It faded into memory and the project has continued.

[00:32:55] Now, recently a whistleblower has come out and, um, this guy's resume, he is a former filmmaker

[00:33:03] who has worked with NASA and the BBC.

[00:33:06] So little sketchy.

[00:33:08] And he's talked to the British paper, the mirror.

[00:33:11] So again, a little sketchy, but I want to believe, um, he's basically said that an insider

[00:33:17] within the breakthrough listening project indicated that an announcement of alien life is imminent

[00:33:22] within the next month or so.

[00:33:24] And the reason why this is happening is that this radio signal that was picked up in Australia

[00:33:30] in 2019 was originally dismissed as interference, but that was a cover story because that was

[00:33:36] the real deal.

[00:33:37] It was the aliens.

[00:33:39] All right.

[00:33:40] And well, the breakthrough listening program was catching this.

[00:33:44] Also the Chinese government picked up this signal as well.

[00:33:48] And they're doing their own research.

[00:33:49] China is set to announce that they've discovered alien life.

[00:33:53] So this has now prompted the breakthrough listening project to also make a joint announcement

[00:33:57] supposed to happen within the next month or so.

[00:34:00] They're going to basically come out and say that they've identified this alien radio signal

[00:34:05] from a planet far, far away.

[00:34:09] So what do you think?

[00:34:11] Interesting.

[00:34:12] Well, I mean, beyond the fact that Zuckerberg is most likely an alien, I don't know.

[00:34:18] Well, it's probably going to be much of much to do about nothing.

[00:34:21] Well, this is the thing is like, so Zuckerberg, if you notice, like he became like, he became

[00:34:26] bro Zuckerberg.

[00:34:27] He's changed his hair.

[00:34:28] He's got gold chains.

[00:34:29] He's built this like basically like impenetrable fortress in an island in Hawaii.

[00:34:34] I think he knows that they're coming and he's preparing.

[00:34:37] He's going to be the lone survivor, him and his friends.

[00:34:42] Yeah.

[00:34:42] I don't know.

[00:34:43] I've heard different things.

[00:34:44] I've heard the natives of Hawaii aren't very fond of Zuckerberg.

[00:34:47] So no matter what he does, if he does bug out into that thing, that's not going to help.

[00:34:53] Okay.

[00:34:53] Well, anyway, that's not going to help.

[00:34:56] That is the Breakthrough Listening Project.

[00:34:58] So we will, we'll keep an eye on it.

[00:35:00] There's another alien story, but I'll hold that one for next episode.

[00:35:04] Oh, teaser, teaser.

[00:35:06] Stay tuned.

[00:35:08] Interesting.

[00:35:09] Okay.

[00:35:09] Chris, aren't you glad you came on this hiking podcast?

[00:35:13] We'll get there.

[00:35:14] Yes.

[00:35:14] We will.

[00:35:15] We will.

[00:35:16] All right.

[00:35:16] So stop putting in a wind chill calculator.

[00:35:19] This is a helpful tool.

[00:35:21] So we want to, we'll share this link in the show notes.

[00:35:23] This is the National Weather Service.

[00:35:25] How does this work, stop?

[00:35:27] Yeah, it's simple.

[00:35:28] It's right on the NWS page and you plug in your Fahrenheit and the wind and it gives you

[00:35:35] the temperature, basically the wind chill, what it feels like on your body.

[00:35:39] So it's a very cool tool to check out before you hit the trails.

[00:35:45] Very good.

[00:35:46] Yep.

[00:35:46] We're going to have to worry about the wind chill soon enough.

[00:35:49] Oh, for sure.

[00:35:51] All right, Stomp.

[00:35:51] And then you put in these, so why don't you cover these?

[00:35:53] You've got two safety workshop classes that are coming up in case people are interested.

[00:35:59] Yep.

[00:36:00] We have the Eastern Snow and Avalanche Workshop, which is coming to Freiburg, Maine again.

[00:36:06] This is a yearly course that comes along and it is December 14th.

[00:36:12] Tickets are available and it's basically snow and avalanche education.

[00:36:16] They have speakers from around the world essentially talking about avalanche risk and danger and

[00:36:23] mitigation and it's always a great, great time.

[00:36:26] So be sure to check that out.

[00:36:28] And now is definitely the time for snowmobiling.

[00:36:32] It's going to be a great season, hopefully, knock on wood.

[00:36:35] So Fishing Game is reminding people that you can do your OHRV course for snowmobiles safe operation.

[00:36:43] And that's either online or in person.

[00:36:46] It's a snowmobile, you either need a valid license or one of these passes through this course.

[00:36:53] So check it out.

[00:36:54] It's super handy and it's pretty affordable too.

[00:36:59] Yeah.

[00:37:00] Very good.

[00:37:00] It's going to be a good season.

[00:37:01] Yeah.

[00:37:01] Well, I don't know, Stomp.

[00:37:02] I saw news reports today saying El Nino was coming and it was going to be warm.

[00:37:07] Who knows?

[00:37:09] Who knows?

[00:37:09] I hope not, but it's off to a good start.

[00:37:12] Okay.

[00:37:14] Chris, how would you describe your hiking style?

[00:37:16] Are you the type of hiker that likes to take a lot of breaks or are you somebody that like

[00:37:22] keep gets moving and keeps moving?

[00:37:25] I most I run.

[00:37:27] You run.

[00:37:27] So I run, I take pictures.

[00:37:30] I mostly go out in the morning.

[00:37:32] I try to get home for breakfast.

[00:37:34] Okay.

[00:37:35] But you're mostly continuous?

[00:37:38] Continuous.

[00:37:38] Yeah.

[00:37:39] Okay.

[00:37:39] All right.

[00:37:39] Well, you may want to rethink that technique because we found, Stomp found a new research

[00:37:47] that says walking in short bursts and then you should probably apply this to running as

[00:37:51] well.

[00:37:52] Walking in short bursts found to consume 20 to 60% more energy than walking continuously

[00:37:58] in the same distance.

[00:38:00] So what's the theory behind this stomp?

[00:38:03] Well, two implications.

[00:38:04] I mean, if you're looking to manage a long distance run, then you don't want to be doing

[00:38:11] those quick stops and starts again because the energy expended during the startup, the startup

[00:38:18] process of getting back into your pace is burning all that extra energy.

[00:38:22] If you're looking for energy expenditure, calorie burning, weight loss, then actually stopping,

[00:38:29] starting, going at perhaps a little quicker pace might be right for you.

[00:38:33] But if you're looking to conserve, then you want to find that sweet spot and then carry

[00:38:37] it along.

[00:38:38] You know, whether it's a mile, half a mile an hour.

[00:38:41] If you can carry that continuous, then you're going to be burning less energy in the long run,

[00:38:45] according to the study.

[00:38:47] And you know, you're a PT.

[00:38:48] I'm sure you have thoughts about this.

[00:38:51] Let's take all these studies with a grain of salt, let's just say.

[00:38:54] Yeah.

[00:38:54] How much of a time in between the starts and stops?

[00:38:58] Exactly.

[00:38:59] Yeah.

[00:39:00] But it makes sense theoretically anyway.

[00:39:03] You know, it's one of those, we've spent money for this.

[00:39:08] I think most hikers that like to stop a lot, like they're not, they're not starting back

[00:39:12] up with a short burst, which gets you that 20 to 60%.

[00:39:15] They're just like moseying back into it.

[00:39:17] So I guess I'm more of a conserve energy guy.

[00:39:24] Let's dive into some White Mountains history, shall we?

[00:39:33] For some of the newer listeners, I'm not sure if people are aware of the 2019, there were

[00:39:39] two major searches and we can't cover them in depth here tonight because it would take

[00:39:45] forever, but there was a law student, a Dartmouth student in May.

[00:39:51] It was basically Mother's Day weekend who went up with an outdoor adventure club from Dartmouth.

[00:39:58] They were going to do something smaller, but they ended up going up Gorge Brook at about

[00:40:02] 2,300 feet.

[00:40:04] The instructor turned this guy around because he just wasn't doing well hiking.

[00:40:08] He had shorts, sneakers.

[00:40:12] He went down, he was sent down trail by himself and got lost.

[00:40:16] So from Saturday until Monday, there was this extensive search with 70 plus people, New Hampshire

[00:40:24] Army National Guard, DART, three New England canine teams.

[00:40:28] There was like three to four feet of rotten snow all over the place.

[00:40:32] Monday morning, he comes walking out down trail without shoes on.

[00:40:37] The shoes had taken his sneakers.

[00:40:40] Sorry, the snow, the post-holing had taken his sneakers and I was mildly hypothermic, dehydrated.

[00:40:45] It's an incredible story.

[00:40:47] But if you plug in the search for Arun, A-R-U-N, Anand, A-N-A-N-D, a whole bunch of stories

[00:40:54] will come up about this search.

[00:40:56] And on the heels of that, in June, that's when we had the Chris Staff search, which was

[00:41:01] he was a 70-year-old man who tried to do a clockwise Pemi loop and it was a heavy heat

[00:41:08] day.

[00:41:09] He got extremely dehydrated when he got near Boncliffe.

[00:41:12] He got a lot of people, people spotted him, but he disappeared too.

[00:41:15] He went off trail and disappeared.

[00:41:16] And that was a week-long search.

[00:41:18] They called off the search Friday.

[00:41:20] So his Pemi loop started on Saturday or Sunday.

[00:41:24] Friday night, they called it off.

[00:41:25] They ended up finding him.

[00:41:26] But that is an incredible story.

[00:41:28] And both of those searches are covered on the Northwoods Law.

[00:41:31] I forget what season's, maybe season 10, if I remember correctly.

[00:41:34] But if you haven't heard about these, do some reading about them because they're fascinating.

[00:41:39] Yeah.

[00:41:39] And I wonder, Stomp, I was thinking about this when I was looking at the script.

[00:41:45] I went hiking up Beaver Brook last winter.

[00:41:51] And we ended up cutting, by Blue Mountain, we ended up cutting over to this abandoned trail

[00:41:59] that essentially runs at about 4,000 feet.

[00:42:03] It runs across the top of Joe Bill Dunk Ravine and then cuts over to Gorge Brook.

[00:42:10] It's an abandoned trail that...

[00:42:13] Are you talking Asquam Ridge?

[00:42:14] Something like that, yeah.

[00:42:16] The backside of Weedamoo?

[00:42:18] No.

[00:42:19] Maybe?

[00:42:19] No, no, no.

[00:42:20] It's on Musilaki.

[00:42:23] It goes over Joe Bill Dunk Ravine at about 4,000 feet.

[00:42:30] So you go by Mount Blue and then instead of taking the hard right up Mount Blue, you follow

[00:42:35] the contour line between 4,200 and 4,000 feet.

[00:42:40] And we ended up bushwhacking back up to Beaver Brook.

[00:42:45] But I'm wondering if that kid ended up from Gorge Brook over onto the other side of that abandoned

[00:42:51] trail somehow and was just poking around.

[00:42:54] Well, from what I understand, Jim Neeland is quoted as saying that he...

[00:43:00] It sounds like he was between Beaver Brook Trail and...

[00:43:05] That's what I'm talking about.

[00:43:06] ...the northern brook.

[00:43:08] I think he was between there because Neeland said that he was huddled under some rock near

[00:43:14] the brook and that may be why rescuers couldn't be heard because we were out there yelling and

[00:43:21] screaming and you...

[00:43:22] You know, another team could be 100 yards out and you just couldn't hear them because of

[00:43:26] the water.

[00:43:27] I mean, it's very possible, but yeah, you're definitely right.

[00:43:30] It's in that...

[00:43:32] Yeah.

[00:43:32] I guess it's northeast.

[00:43:33] Yeah.

[00:43:34] Asquam Ridge is down at like 3,000 feet.

[00:43:36] Yeah.

[00:43:37] I'm talking about the higher abandoned...

[00:43:40] It's an old abandoned trail that is at like 4,000, 4,200 feet.

[00:43:43] So, if maybe he wasn't that high up, he might have been that low.

[00:43:46] Well, that's the thing.

[00:43:47] He started turning around at 2,300 feet and generally with searches to set up a perimeter

[00:43:54] that like you're thinking containment, like nobody's going to go hike up...

[00:43:58] True.

[00:44:00] ...another 2,000 feet.

[00:44:01] They're going to come down generally.

[00:44:02] So, that's part of this...

[00:44:05] I've got this book here, again, from Jack Daly.

[00:44:07] It's Lost Person Behavior.

[00:44:08] It's like the Bible of how searches work and just behavior.

[00:44:12] So, containment would be...

[00:44:13] Yeah, he's probably not going to go that way.

[00:44:15] So, let's focus our efforts down here where he may be.

[00:44:19] He might have gone down these trails.

[00:44:21] He might have walked down the Baker River.

[00:44:23] So, that's sort of how they think.

[00:44:26] But yeah, it was in the right direction though because he came out from somewhere in that

[00:44:30] area, ended up on Gorge Brook Trail or Beaver Brook.

[00:44:33] I always screw those two up.

[00:44:35] Yeah.

[00:44:36] Like...

[00:44:37] So, he would have been on Gorge Brook.

[00:44:38] Beaver Brook is the one that comes over from 112.

[00:44:42] That's the steep one.

[00:44:43] I was talking about Ravine Lodge.

[00:44:45] Yeah.

[00:44:45] So, you're talking about Gorge Brook.

[00:44:46] Yeah.

[00:44:47] Gorge Brook.

[00:44:48] Gorge Brook.

[00:44:49] Yeah.

[00:44:50] That was the primary focus for the searches.

[00:44:52] Okay.

[00:44:53] But he came walking down just like, how did we miss you?

[00:44:56] Where were you?

[00:44:56] Yeah.

[00:44:57] Yeah.

[00:44:57] So, I'll link the Northwoods Law episodes.

[00:45:01] It's a two-part episode and yeah, it's pretty interesting to watch that and then we'll include

[00:45:05] the article in the show notes.

[00:45:07] This caused a big issue with the Dartmouth Outing Club.

[00:45:10] They had to rethink how they approach trips and completely change the protocols on how they...

[00:45:16] You know, you can't leave somebody.

[00:45:18] If you're in a group like that, you can't turn somebody around and tell them to go back

[00:45:22] by themselves.

[00:45:23] Right.

[00:45:23] I feel like the Dartmouth Outing Club has such a legacy too in the whites that it looks

[00:45:27] especially bad, the fact that he was from Dartmouth as well.

[00:45:30] Yeah.

[00:45:31] That guy ended up resigning but Dartmouth ended up paying $17,000 for the search.

[00:45:35] Wow.

[00:45:35] I tried to find out if they paid for the $40,000 that was accrued because of the helicopters

[00:45:41] but I couldn't find whether that was paid or not.

[00:45:44] But who knows?

[00:45:45] That's a lot of money.

[00:45:46] Yeah.

[00:45:46] A lot of time and money.

[00:45:47] Yeah, it is.

[00:45:49] All right.

[00:45:50] So, yeah, we'll link all that in there.

[00:45:52] I'll link all that in the info in the show notes if anyone wants to do a deep dive on

[00:45:55] that Dartmouth issue.

[00:45:56] And then I got a couple of more history segments here.

[00:45:58] So, I have been...

[00:46:00] In my free time, I do a lot of reading.

[00:46:02] And the nice thing about history and the White Mounds is there's a lot of free resources

[00:46:07] out there.

[00:46:08] So, anything that's from 1876 all the way up to I think 1926 is public domain now for the

[00:46:17] AMC Appalachia journals and then the Appalachia bulletin.

[00:46:20] So, there's two types of documents for the AMC.

[00:46:24] There is the Appalachia bulletins which started in 1876 and those were monthly, essentially

[00:46:31] minutes of the meetings that they would...

[00:46:33] So, they would meet in Huntington Hall at MIT monthly.

[00:46:38] And they would go through their...

[00:46:41] The AMC meeting.

[00:46:42] Typically, they'd have 50 to 100 people.

[00:46:44] It was all in Boston.

[00:46:46] And they would go through the process of like you had to get nominated to become a member.

[00:46:51] So, you'd see a lot of people from Boston and Cambridge and Malden.

[00:46:55] And they'd get nominated and then you'd have a sponsor as well.

[00:46:58] And then they would vote people in.

[00:46:59] So, typically, there was like between 10 and 12 members that would get nominated every month.

[00:47:03] And then they would go through like the minutes.

[00:47:06] There would be the President's Report.

[00:47:08] Then there would be the five different departments.

[00:47:11] There was like the Art and Natural Department.

[00:47:15] There was the Geography Department.

[00:47:17] There was the...

[00:47:18] Or the Committee.

[00:47:18] There was the Improvements Committee.

[00:47:20] There was the Exploration Committee.

[00:47:22] So, they would all report on what their plans were.

[00:47:25] And then they...

[00:47:26] The big thing was is that they would have essentially like...

[00:47:30] Not monthly, but like every six weeks, they would have outings.

[00:47:34] And they would go...

[00:47:35] A lot of them were in the White Mountains.

[00:47:36] Some of them would be in like California, North Carolina, Adirondacks, whatever.

[00:47:40] They had a list of trips that you could sign up for.

[00:47:43] And they would have a trip organizer.

[00:47:45] And those were like maybe every four to six weeks.

[00:47:47] And then they would also have weekly walks.

[00:47:52] So, they would do like the different arboretums around.

[00:47:56] They would go to Lynn Woods.

[00:47:57] They would go to, you know, places in Wakefield.

[00:48:00] They would go around Blue Hills, whatever, every week.

[00:48:04] So, it was a whole social thing.

[00:48:07] But what piqued my interest was the monthly trips that they would do.

[00:48:14] And they would usually do like six or seven trips to the White Mountains every year.

[00:48:19] And they would usually have between 50 to 100 people that would show up.

[00:48:23] I think the cost at the time was like $30, $40.

[00:48:26] And they would do like...

[00:48:27] They would stay at the different lodges around the White.

[00:48:30] So, they...

[00:48:31] Like one of the stores I'm going to tell you was at the Profile House,

[00:48:33] which is in the Cannon Tram parking lot.

[00:48:36] It's now...

[00:48:37] It's since burned down.

[00:48:38] And then another one was at Iron Mountain had a grand hotel.

[00:48:42] So, they'd stay at Iron Mountain.

[00:48:43] So, I read...

[00:48:47] And then afterwards, like in the bulletins, they'll do a summary of the report.

[00:48:52] So, or the trip.

[00:48:53] They'll do a trip report.

[00:48:54] So, I grabbed...

[00:48:56] This one is from February of 1908.

[00:48:59] And it describes this.

[00:49:01] This itinerary blows my mind.

[00:49:03] So, this was the Snowshoe Committee.

[00:49:05] They do two snowshoe trips to the Whites every year.

[00:49:08] So, they describe this.

[00:49:10] So, they're all leaving from Boston.

[00:49:12] So, this is the February snowshoe trip.

[00:49:15] As in the past few years was pleasantly spent at the Iron Mountain House in Jackson, New Hampshire.

[00:49:22] The main party of about 50 people were going...

[00:49:26] They got...

[00:49:27] They went in special cars the morning of February 15th.

[00:49:30] And then many others joined during the week.

[00:49:32] So, they didn't take trains.

[00:49:33] They were taking cars as early as 1908.

[00:49:37] So, the total attendance was 82 people.

[00:49:40] The number was less than last year, but filled the house comfortably.

[00:49:44] And there was no overcrowding, which has sometimes been objectionable, is what they said.

[00:49:49] The arrival at Glen Station was in the midst of a driving rain with the roads deep and almost impassable with slush.

[00:49:58] Fortunately, cooler weather and moderate snowfalls remedied this difficulty.

[00:50:02] The balance of the week saw superb shoeing on from 15 to 18 inches of solid snow.

[00:50:11] So, this is the program of the week.

[00:50:13] So, they went...

[00:50:14] On Sunday, they did Thorn Mountain and Morrison Cottage.

[00:50:19] Monday, they did Doublehead, which is close by.

[00:50:22] So, they did the Doubleheads with exciting slides down the South Peak.

[00:50:25] So, they basically slid down South Peak.

[00:50:28] On Tuesday, they took a drive up 16 to Glen Ellis Falls and then they climbed the Glen Boulder.

[00:50:36] Alright.

[00:50:37] Wednesday, they did Iron Mountain from Hayes Farm returning via the ridge.

[00:50:43] Tuesday, they took a train to Bemis and did the ascent of Mount Crawford, which at the time, they said, was a comparatively new but interesting peak for winter parties.

[00:50:54] Then Friday, they did Wildcat from the South returning via Carter Notch.

[00:50:59] Like, can you believe...

[00:51:00] Like, they're out there doing all that...

[00:51:01] I would be exhausted and this is 1908 and they're doing this.

[00:51:05] They're probably doing it in tweed suits.

[00:51:08] Exactly.

[00:51:08] Like, breaking a trail too.

[00:51:10] Yeah.

[00:51:10] Throughout all that, I would have to think.

[00:51:11] Crazy.

[00:51:12] It's crazy.

[00:51:13] And then, there was a camp party to Prospect Farm in Hall's Ledge, which I don't know where that is.

[00:51:21] And then they took a special train through the notch to Crawford on...

[00:51:26] The Crawfords on Saturday and they climbed Mount Clinton and Avalon and Willard.

[00:51:33] So, Clinton at the time, that was Mount Pierce.

[00:51:34] And then they did Avalon and Willard.

[00:51:36] Oh, yeah.

[00:51:37] Yeah.

[00:51:37] Yeah.

[00:51:38] And then on Sunday, to top it off, it was 15 below, they hiked up to Tuckerman Ravine.

[00:51:45] and then there was two parties that actually

[00:51:48] ascended Mount Washington during the week

[00:51:51] one was by the carriage road and the other was Tuckerman Ravine

[00:51:56] and the evening of Washington's birthday

[00:51:59] was given over to the annual banquet tendered to the club

[00:52:02] by the hotel management followed by dancing

[00:52:05] and music of the Interville Symphony Orchestra

[00:52:09] so what a party huh?

[00:52:11] well there wasn't much to do back then so you might as well

[00:52:14] crush it during the day and then listen to classical at night

[00:52:18] sounds pretty perfect to me

[00:52:19] yeah crazy

[00:52:22] lots simpler times I guess

[00:52:25] and the wood the snowshoes must have been those big wooden snowshoes too

[00:52:29] yeah the giant ones

[00:52:32] so things are beautiful they work so well too

[00:52:35] yeah and then I just like I just I'll look I'll look up

[00:52:39] and three hours have gone by and I've been reading through these trip reports

[00:52:42] they also did another trip report in June of 1908

[00:52:47] this one they stayed at the profile house which is right in Cannon parking lot now

[00:52:52] it's since been burned down

[00:52:54] so on Friday they took a train up to Bethlehem and ascended Mount Agassiz

[00:53:02] returning by path to Maplewood

[00:53:05] then that afternoon they ascended Mount Cannon

[00:53:12] and there was five people that went up Mount Cannon

[00:53:17] and as they came down they reached the ledges of the old man

[00:53:21] and they notified they inspected the ledges

[00:53:24] and they they wrote down that on the ledge forming the forehead

[00:53:28] was found to be separated from the parent ledge

[00:53:30] by a fissure that was at least two feet wide

[00:53:33] and resting half unsupported

[00:53:35] half overhanging

[00:53:36] while about 15 feet back

[00:53:38] the entire ledge forming the head

[00:53:40] was found to have separated from its backing

[00:53:44] showing a crack some six inches wide

[00:53:46] these fissures are almost certain to widen

[00:53:49] under the action of ice and snow

[00:53:51] and it would seem as if some device might be conceived

[00:53:54] which would render more secure

[00:53:56] what many consider the foremost of New Hampshire's wonders

[00:53:59] the club members are urged to agitate this matter to the end

[00:54:03] that the remedy may be forthcoming

[00:54:05] basically meaning like they got to raise this to the AMC

[00:54:09] to try to figure out a way to fix it

[00:54:11] they said Harlan Perkins was in charge of the party

[00:54:14] having the most efficient assistant Frank Madison with him

[00:54:17] so even back in 1908 they were looking at this thing

[00:54:21] and they were like it's gonna let loose

[00:54:23] there's a lot of gold

[00:54:24] so I'll link these in the show notes

[00:54:25] if people want to start reading these bulletins

[00:54:27] it's fascinating stuff to me

[00:54:30] were you finding them again?

[00:54:32] they're not online are they?

[00:54:33] they're in like

[00:54:34] I got some on the Dartmouth Digital Commons

[00:54:38] there's some in the Princeton Digital Commons

[00:54:40] and then I think University of California's got a bunch

[00:54:44] and then Google Books has

[00:54:45] anything from 1926 backwards

[00:54:49] they've got all the Appalachia books

[00:54:51] oh that's cool

[00:54:52] it's wicked cool

[00:54:53] yeah

[00:54:55] hardcore

[00:54:56] I don't know

[00:54:57] Nick do you like history?

[00:55:00] I do

[00:55:00] I do

[00:55:01] I enjoy it

[00:55:01] usually poking around some sort of White Mountains related

[00:55:04] you seemed really excited about that segment

[00:55:06] Viking book

[00:55:07] awesome

[00:55:12] hey

[00:55:13] what's that sound?

[00:55:14] it must be time for the pop culture segment

[00:55:17] with Mike and Stomp

[00:55:18] alright so moving on to

[00:55:26] the pop segment

[00:55:28] Stomp wants to give a rest in peace

[00:55:30] to some guy from One Direction that died

[00:55:34] yeah

[00:55:34] cause I'm the OG 1D dad

[00:55:36] yeah

[00:55:37] I was shocked

[00:55:38] it happened last night

[00:55:39] so yeah

[00:55:39] I used to take all my daughters out to see him

[00:55:42] and them

[00:55:43] all over the place

[00:55:44] in New York

[00:55:45] and

[00:55:45] like we

[00:55:46] we did an overnight

[00:55:47] to see them play at Rockefeller Center

[00:55:50] at 2 in the morning

[00:55:51] they did a sound check

[00:55:53] and then played at 7

[00:55:54] for like Good Morning America

[00:55:55] so

[00:55:56] they're sort of shocked

[00:55:57] I'm sort of shocked

[00:55:58] I actually really enjoy the band

[00:56:00] so it's such a bummer

[00:56:01] he was so young

[00:56:01] and

[00:56:02] just weird

[00:56:03] weird stories coming out after the fact

[00:56:05] so yeah

[00:56:06] rest in peace

[00:56:07] yep

[00:56:08] bummer

[00:56:08] he either fell out of a window

[00:56:10] or jumped out of a window

[00:56:11] it's one or the other

[00:56:13] or got pushed out

[00:56:14] we'll find out hopefully

[00:56:15] was he still actively like producing music and stuff

[00:56:17] oh yeah

[00:56:18] as well too

[00:56:18] oh yeah collaborating with the other members

[00:56:20] and other artists

[00:56:21] I was telling Nick before we started

[00:56:24] that I still have a 1D shirt

[00:56:26] I'm gonna bust it out

[00:56:28] for one of these upcoming live shows probably

[00:56:30] that has to happen

[00:56:31] wow

[00:56:31] yeah I heard he was

[00:56:32] he was down there because

[00:56:34] Michael's

[00:56:35] wow

[00:56:37] I heard he was down there because he was

[00:56:39] um

[00:56:39] is Niall Horan

[00:56:42] or whatever that other guy's name is down there

[00:56:43] playing a concert

[00:56:44] yeah

[00:56:45] right

[00:56:45] right

[00:56:46] yeah

[00:56:46] but they just released a

[00:56:49] an audio clip of

[00:56:51] it's like a 911 call

[00:56:53] from one of the

[00:56:55] um

[00:56:55] hotel employee staff

[00:56:57] and uh

[00:56:59] saying that

[00:57:00] there was some guy that was

[00:57:01] intoxicated

[00:57:02] or just being violent

[00:57:03] and aggressive

[00:57:04] and just sounds so out of character

[00:57:06] very strange

[00:57:08] so who knows

[00:57:08] yeah

[00:57:09] well

[00:57:10] rock stars in hotel rooms

[00:57:11] don't mix

[00:57:12] but um

[00:57:13] you know what does mix

[00:57:14] coffee

[00:57:14] in the morning

[00:57:15] coffee does

[00:57:17] yes

[00:57:17] this podcast is sponsored by

[00:57:19] CS

[00:57:20] instant coffee

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[00:57:27] and that is at

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[00:57:30] on the web

[00:57:31] thank you

[00:57:32] CS

[00:57:33] we all know that hiking a mountain

[00:57:35] can be hard at times

[00:57:37] so here's a corny

[00:57:38] dad joke

[00:57:39] to help you

[00:57:40] get over it

[00:57:41] ba-dum-bum

[00:57:44] you have any dad jokes tonight

[00:57:45] I do

[00:57:46] I do

[00:57:47] stop

[00:57:47] why should you never tell a taco

[00:57:49] a secret

[00:57:52] because they will spill the beans

[00:57:56] there you go

[00:57:59] oh my god

[00:58:00] good stuff

[00:58:02] um

[00:58:03] we can skip this

[00:58:04] uh swag section

[00:58:05] but I do want to

[00:58:06] give a shout out to

[00:58:07] mindhunterrabbit

[00:58:08] who said

[00:58:09] where is the free

[00:58:10] Daphne merch

[00:58:11] so

[00:58:12] I'm gonna start working on that

[00:58:14] for you

[00:58:14] mindhunter

[00:58:15] and then uh

[00:58:16] for coffee donations

[00:58:17] um

[00:58:17] we do have a donation

[00:58:18] uh

[00:58:19] by

[00:58:19] nancymvy

[00:58:21] on x

[00:58:22] um

[00:58:23] so

[00:58:23] this is a five coffee donation

[00:58:25] and uh

[00:58:26] nancy says that

[00:58:27] she looks forward to

[00:58:28] every episode

[00:58:29] so thank you very much nancy

[00:58:31] it's very appreciated

[00:58:39] hey

[00:58:40] hold my beer

[00:58:41] it's time to find out

[00:58:42] what mike and stomp are drinking

[00:58:45] on this week's beer talk

[00:58:46] he's not stomping now

[00:58:55] as a part of the show

[00:58:55] we talk about beer

[00:58:56] it's supposed to be

[00:58:56] sober october

[00:58:57] but I forgot it was

[00:58:58] sober october

[00:58:59] and I'm crushing

[00:58:59] a beer right now

[00:59:01] ha ha

[00:59:02] shame drop

[00:59:03] coming in

[00:59:04] you look really sad

[00:59:05] about that

[00:59:06] sorry

[00:59:07] sorry

[00:59:08] I am drinking

[00:59:08] a laser cat

[00:59:10] so um

[00:59:11] Chris

[00:59:12] Chris has forced us

[00:59:13] to lock Daphne up

[00:59:14] tonight but

[00:59:15] um

[00:59:15] I'm drinking a laser cat

[00:59:17] in

[00:59:17] in uh

[00:59:18] solid

[00:59:18] solidarity

[00:59:19] solidarity

[00:59:20] whatever that is

[00:59:21] whatever that word is

[00:59:22] he's drunk already

[00:59:24] oh god

[00:59:25] that's hilarious

[00:59:25] yeah I've been

[00:59:26] sort of slacking

[00:59:27] here and there

[00:59:27] in this

[00:59:31] whatever

[00:59:32] you do what you can

[00:59:33] right

[00:59:33] yes

[00:59:35] um

[00:59:36] anybody else

[00:59:37] anybody else

[00:59:38] drinking

[00:59:38] nothing

[00:59:38] anybody

[00:59:39] no

[00:59:39] no

[00:59:39] these are water boys

[00:59:40] no

[00:59:41] I'm hydrating

[00:59:42] okay

[00:59:43] that's good

[00:59:44] I respect that

[00:59:48] I knew we should

[00:59:49] have gone left

[00:59:49] back there

[00:59:50] Stomp

[00:59:51] don't worry

[00:59:51] I know it's this way

[00:59:53] I've got a feeling

[00:59:54] in my gut

[00:59:54] uh

[00:59:55] are you sure you're not

[00:59:56] about to have a bowel

[00:59:57] emergency

[00:59:59] uh totally

[00:59:59] we got this

[01:00:00] but I just blew out

[01:00:01] my hip

[01:00:02] fell down that gully

[01:00:03] with my 40 year old

[01:00:04] micro spikes

[01:00:05] suck it up Stomp

[01:00:06] it's 4pm

[01:00:07] we're at 3500 feet

[01:00:09] we got 9 miles

[01:00:10] back to the parking lot

[01:00:11] your leg may be broken

[01:00:13] we got no cell connection

[01:00:15] and we can't feel our fingers

[01:00:16] but we're finishing

[01:00:17] all of my list tonight

[01:00:19] by the way

[01:00:19] I need some water

[01:00:20] I'm empty

[01:00:21] I would if I could

[01:00:23] see what I'm doing

[01:00:23] but my headlamp batteries

[01:00:25] are dead

[01:00:25] you gotta be kidding me

[01:00:26] what a chump

[01:00:27] this is the last time

[01:00:28] I hike with you

[01:00:29] ha

[01:00:30] whatever

[01:00:31] mister

[01:00:31] do you know me

[01:00:32] I have a podcast

[01:00:34] whatever

[01:00:38] let's find out

[01:00:39] what Mike and Stomp

[01:00:40] have been hiking

[01:00:43] um

[01:00:43] now it's part of the show

[01:00:44] where we talk about

[01:00:45] recent hikes

[01:00:45] I did not hike

[01:00:46] this weekend

[01:00:47] I did

[01:00:47] I went to a Festivus party

[01:00:50] and then

[01:00:51] I stayed home on Sunday

[01:00:52] because it was raining

[01:00:53] and it was gross

[01:00:55] isn't Festivus supposed

[01:00:56] to be closer to Christmas

[01:00:57] yeah

[01:00:58] I don't know

[01:00:58] they just did it early

[01:00:59] ha

[01:01:00] ha

[01:01:01] did you air your

[01:01:03] did you air your grievances

[01:01:03] I didn't on this one

[01:01:05] I have another Festivus

[01:01:06] party where we actually

[01:01:07] decorate the pole

[01:01:08] my buddy Jay

[01:01:10] who you're gonna meet

[01:01:10] tomorrow actually

[01:01:11] when we go hiking

[01:01:13] he has like a light pole

[01:01:15] in front of his house

[01:01:15] so we decorate that

[01:01:17] and then we stand around

[01:01:17] and drink beer

[01:01:18] and then

[01:01:18] air our grievances

[01:01:20] it sounds fantastic

[01:01:21] yeah it's fun

[01:01:22] it is fun

[01:01:23] so

[01:01:25] uh

[01:01:25] but Stomp

[01:01:25] it sounds like

[01:01:26] you did some hiking

[01:01:28] yeah

[01:01:29] yeah

[01:01:29] hiking and rescuing

[01:01:31] yeah

[01:01:31] as part of our

[01:01:32] response

[01:01:32] so I did get up

[01:01:34] uh

[01:01:34] yeah

[01:01:34] the 48

[01:01:35] divided by 2 club

[01:01:36] but this time

[01:01:36] it was actually

[01:01:37] to the summit of Lafayette

[01:01:38] so um

[01:01:39] I guess I did Lafayette

[01:01:40] for sunset

[01:01:41] with 80 mile an hour

[01:01:43] winds

[01:01:43] and

[01:01:44] single digits

[01:01:45] so that was

[01:01:46] exhilarating

[01:01:47] yeah

[01:01:48] at the time

[01:01:49] it was bone dry

[01:01:50] but just really

[01:01:51] cold and windy

[01:01:51] no snow

[01:01:52] or any rye mice

[01:01:53] or anything like that

[01:01:54] so it was actually

[01:01:55] really nice

[01:01:56] wow

[01:01:56] a lot of people

[01:01:57] on trail too

[01:01:58] surprisingly

[01:01:58] uh

[01:01:58] the hut was open

[01:01:59] the hut crew

[01:02:00] was super cool

[01:02:00] uh

[01:02:01] giving everybody

[01:02:01] brownies

[01:02:02] and hot cocoa

[01:02:03] and um

[01:02:04] they were closing up shop

[01:02:05] because I think

[01:02:06] the 18th

[01:02:08] is uh

[01:02:08] the last day

[01:02:09] I think

[01:02:09] if I remember correctly

[01:02:10] yeah

[01:02:11] so it'll be different

[01:02:12] up there

[01:02:12] there won't be any shelter

[01:02:13] if you need it

[01:02:14] yeah

[01:02:15] did you take the

[01:02:15] like um

[01:02:16] the

[01:02:16] the super secret

[01:02:18] um

[01:02:19] direction

[01:02:20] or did you go

[01:02:20] the new trail

[01:02:21] did you see like

[01:02:21] the trail

[01:02:22] repairs that are going on

[01:02:25] yeah

[01:02:25] we did that reel

[01:02:26] for the new

[01:02:26] the new section there

[01:02:28] and we actually

[01:02:29] skipped the

[01:02:30] the shortcut

[01:02:31] on the way up

[01:02:32] um

[01:02:33] but we took the shortcut

[01:02:34] on the way down

[01:02:34] because it is a half mile

[01:02:36] longer if you take

[01:02:36] the new route

[01:02:37] but the new route

[01:02:38] um

[01:02:39] for old bridle path

[01:02:40] I've yet to do

[01:02:41] falling waters

[01:02:42] but the new route

[01:02:42] at the junction

[01:02:43] of this new section

[01:02:44] that they've built

[01:02:45] is just

[01:02:46] unbelievable

[01:02:46] it's like flat

[01:02:48] super highway

[01:02:48] and it keeps on going

[01:02:49] I was shocked

[01:02:51] um

[01:02:52] great work

[01:02:53] and then I noticed

[01:02:54] all the other work

[01:02:55] that they're doing

[01:02:56] along

[01:02:56] uh

[01:02:57] old bridle

[01:02:58] up to the

[01:02:59] up towards the

[01:03:00] the hairpin even

[01:03:01] I mean there's

[01:03:02] a significant amount

[01:03:04] of work that's going

[01:03:04] on up there

[01:03:05] it's incredible

[01:03:07] yeah

[01:03:07] I saw some

[01:03:08] somebody had posted

[01:03:09] that they had done

[01:03:10] some work on the volunteer

[01:03:11] I think it was

[01:03:12] like that

[01:03:12] um

[01:03:13] I forget what

[01:03:13] they're called

[01:03:14] um

[01:03:15] I forget their name

[01:03:16] but they were

[01:03:17] they were

[01:03:18] um

[01:03:19] working on

[01:03:20] there was a big crew

[01:03:21] it was like 20 people

[01:03:22] working on it

[01:03:22] it looked like they

[01:03:23] were laying out

[01:03:23] like steps and stuff

[01:03:24] so it looked cool

[01:03:25] yeah

[01:03:26] a lot of work

[01:03:27] unbelievable

[01:03:27] how big is the

[01:03:29] reconstructed section

[01:03:30] going to be

[01:03:30] when it's finished

[01:03:31] does it go

[01:03:31] like all the way

[01:03:31] up to like

[01:03:32] sort of where

[01:03:32] it branches off

[01:03:33] for the agonies

[01:03:33] or

[01:03:34] below that

[01:03:35] okay

[01:03:35] there was

[01:03:36] there was no

[01:03:36] work above that

[01:03:37] so the hairpin

[01:03:38] is where the

[01:03:38] the agonies

[01:03:39] sort of start

[01:03:39] essentially

[01:03:40] okay

[01:03:40] so maybe

[01:03:41] about a quarter

[01:03:42] mile to half

[01:03:42] a mile below

[01:03:43] that hairpin

[01:03:44] is where the

[01:03:45] work is going

[01:03:46] on all the way

[01:03:47] back down

[01:03:47] okay

[01:03:47] yeah

[01:03:48] I'll have to

[01:03:48] revisit it

[01:03:49] I came down

[01:03:49] last December

[01:03:50] down that

[01:03:50] but I haven't

[01:03:51] been back

[01:03:51] since so

[01:03:52] it's incredible

[01:03:53] a lot of work

[01:03:54] very cool

[01:03:54] very well done

[01:03:55] and it's the same

[01:03:56] design too

[01:03:57] so it's flats

[01:03:57] and then four or

[01:03:58] five steps

[01:03:59] and then just

[01:03:59] flats

[01:04:01] awesome

[01:04:02] really cool

[01:04:03] and that's about

[01:04:04] it for me

[01:04:06] how about

[01:04:06] these guys

[01:04:07] though

[01:04:07] you just did

[01:04:08] Welch Dickey

[01:04:09] today right

[01:04:10] yep

[01:04:10] so I got out

[01:04:11] a little bit

[01:04:12] early from work

[01:04:13] and actually tried

[01:04:14] to head up

[01:04:14] Cannon

[01:04:14] because I

[01:04:15] needed it

[01:04:15] for the fall

[01:04:15] and I got

[01:04:16] halfway up

[01:04:16] the Kinsman Ridge

[01:04:17] trail

[01:04:17] and hit a bunch

[01:04:18] of ice

[01:04:18] so I just

[01:04:19] figured

[01:04:19] it was just

[01:04:20] a bad idea

[01:04:20] I was getting

[01:04:20] bad vibes

[01:04:21] not enough

[01:04:22] snow and ice

[01:04:22] up there

[01:04:23] for traction

[01:04:24] and do anything

[01:04:24] different

[01:04:24] so I actually

[01:04:25] hit stomp

[01:04:25] up and I'm

[01:04:26] like is Welch

[01:04:26] Dickey dry

[01:04:27] because this

[01:04:28] isn't happening

[01:04:29] today so yeah

[01:04:29] I just went up

[01:04:30] to Welch Dickey

[01:04:31] and hit it

[01:04:32] it was maybe

[01:04:32] like 20-30

[01:04:33] minutes before

[01:04:33] sunset when I

[01:04:34] was coming

[01:04:34] down the Dickey

[01:04:34] ledger so

[01:04:35] it was a great

[01:04:36] time completely

[01:04:36] dry a lot of

[01:04:38] new signage up

[01:04:38] there I haven't

[01:04:39] been up there

[01:04:39] in probably a

[01:04:39] couple years so

[01:04:40] really hard to

[01:04:41] miss the trail

[01:04:42] I think coming

[01:04:43] going up or

[01:04:43] going down

[01:04:44] but beautiful

[01:04:44] as always

[01:04:45] right

[01:04:46] and Chris

[01:04:47] we'll save you

[01:04:47] for the interview

[01:04:48] here but

[01:04:50] did you get

[01:04:51] sweaty?

[01:04:51] did your back

[01:04:52] get sweaty?

[01:04:52] I did

[01:04:53] you got very

[01:04:54] sweaty I

[01:04:54] probably could

[01:04:55] have used

[01:04:55] something to

[01:04:56] help that

[01:04:57] sweaty back

[01:04:57] situation

[01:04:58] that's where

[01:04:58] Mike was headed

[01:04:59] so our sponsor

[01:05:00] here is

[01:05:01] Volkluse Gear

[01:05:01] so does your

[01:05:02] backpack not

[01:05:03] provide enough

[01:05:04] ventilation?

[01:05:05] does your back

[01:05:05] sweat too much

[01:05:06] when backpacking?

[01:05:07] as you know

[01:05:08] sweat can be

[01:05:08] extremely uncomfortable

[01:05:09] on the trails

[01:05:10] plus it's a

[01:05:11] serious risk

[01:05:12] factor in both

[01:05:13] hot and cold

[01:05:14] climates

[01:05:15] as your clothes

[01:05:16] get wet

[01:05:16] your core

[01:05:17] temperature can

[01:05:17] dramatically

[01:05:18] fluctuate

[01:05:19] and this can

[01:05:19] result in

[01:05:20] hypothermia

[01:05:20] heat exhaustion

[01:05:21] and dehydration

[01:05:23] let's not forget

[01:05:24] just very

[01:05:25] uncomfortable

[01:05:25] today's your

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[01:05:27] because we have

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[01:05:52] that's equivalent

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[01:05:55] so whether you're

[01:05:56] hiking in

[01:05:57] hudder cold

[01:05:57] temps

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[01:06:09] and get a

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[01:06:11] with the code

[01:06:12] slasher

[01:06:12] s-l-a-s-r

[01:06:14] and let them know

[01:06:15] that Mike and

[01:06:15] Tom sent you

[01:06:21] it's time for

[01:06:23] slasher's notable

[01:06:24] hike of the week

[01:06:25] if you want to be

[01:06:26] considered for the

[01:06:27] hike of the week

[01:06:28] simply tag slasher

[01:06:29] on your social

[01:06:30] media post

[01:06:34] now now is the

[01:06:35] part of the show

[01:06:35] where we do the

[01:06:36] notable listener

[01:06:37] hike of the week

[01:06:39] yes that's right

[01:06:40] if you want to be

[01:06:41] considered for

[01:06:42] slasher's notable

[01:06:43] hike of the week

[01:06:44] just tag us on

[01:06:45] instagram and

[01:06:46] um we will put

[01:06:48] you on the list

[01:06:48] and let's see what

[01:06:49] we have this week

[01:06:50] we have cammy fit

[01:06:51] who hiked up

[01:06:52] mount success

[01:06:53] to see the plane

[01:06:54] crash

[01:06:55] i've yet to see

[01:06:56] that that looks

[01:06:56] like a really

[01:06:57] cool spot

[01:06:58] yep

[01:06:58] uh nick in

[01:07:00] nature

[01:07:01] mount tom and

[01:07:03] step stone falls

[01:07:04] loop with knobby

[01:07:05] to break 30 000

[01:07:07] for a second i was

[01:07:08] like what did i do

[01:07:11] so you were with

[01:07:12] the knobster

[01:07:13] yeah yeah you

[01:07:14] hit me up

[01:07:14] you broke 30k

[01:07:16] elevation for the

[01:07:17] taylor james

[01:07:18] foundation

[01:07:18] yep yeah

[01:07:19] that's super cool

[01:07:19] that was my goal

[01:07:20] is he making a

[01:07:21] video for this

[01:07:22] uh i'd he was not

[01:07:24] shooting any video

[01:07:24] wow

[01:07:25] unless he was being

[01:07:26] really stealthy but

[01:07:26] uh yeah he just he

[01:07:27] just went out and we

[01:07:28] were just doing the

[01:07:29] thing this is in

[01:07:30] this is in rhode

[01:07:30] island right

[01:07:31] yeah it's yeah it's

[01:07:32] down in arcadia which

[01:07:34] is like the western

[01:07:34] central portion of the

[01:07:35] state there's a big

[01:07:36] management area over

[01:07:37] there um yeah it

[01:07:38] was a lot of fun

[01:07:38] that's cool he's a

[01:07:39] good guy to hike

[01:07:40] with um shout out

[01:07:42] to to tim

[01:07:43] segura for completing

[01:07:44] the 4 000 footers

[01:07:45] congrats tim

[01:07:47] uh folk star

[01:07:48] hiked uh number six

[01:07:50] six and seven for

[01:07:50] the adirondack 46

[01:07:52] uh on mount marcy

[01:07:54] and mount haystack

[01:07:56] and then our buddy

[01:07:58] dave shits in the

[01:07:59] woods hiked brown

[01:08:01] ash swamp mountain

[01:08:02] for the new

[01:08:03] hampshire highest 500

[01:08:04] as well as his

[01:08:06] personal list that he

[01:08:07] created for everybody

[01:08:08] the new hampshire

[01:08:08] inappropriate 69

[01:08:11] so nice work dave

[01:08:12] um eric hansen

[01:08:14] hiked mount tremont

[01:08:15] and said it was a

[01:08:16] beast or something

[01:08:18] akin to that and it

[01:08:19] is that's that's a

[01:08:20] monster out there

[01:08:21] it's yeah it's some

[01:08:22] pretty and then it

[01:08:23] just like goes like

[01:08:24] straight up for like

[01:08:25] the last mile or mile

[01:08:26] and a half or whatever

[01:08:27] rugged stuff uh dave

[01:08:29] comes in again doing

[01:08:29] white wall via the

[01:08:30] slide that's always an

[01:08:32] adventure and finally

[01:08:34] jude hikes the whites

[01:08:36] hiked mount cube for

[01:08:38] number 17 out of the

[01:08:40] 52 of the view list

[01:08:41] so there we have it

[01:08:43] the notable hikes of

[01:08:44] the week what do you

[01:08:45] think mike who's the

[01:08:46] winner and look at

[01:08:47] nick's looking at me

[01:08:47] with his puppy dog

[01:08:48] eyes yeah just

[01:08:50] just drilling it i

[01:08:51] would pick the i'd

[01:08:52] pick the adirondack

[01:08:53] version marcy and

[01:08:54] haystack sounds epic

[01:08:55] no that's me i i

[01:08:57] usually do list

[01:08:58] finishers that's like

[01:09:00] how they get the so

[01:09:01] tim tim in fact

[01:09:03] tim um we met tim

[01:09:04] nick on the uh the

[01:09:05] day remember that

[01:09:06] epic um adams

[01:09:08] madison undercast hike

[01:09:09] this winter yeah we

[01:09:11] met tim that day so

[01:09:12] oh is he like a

[01:09:13] caretaker no no no

[01:09:15] he's just a hiker he

[01:09:16] just finished his

[01:09:17] four thousand footer

[01:09:18] met a lot of people

[01:09:18] that yeah um so

[01:09:20] yeah definitely tim and

[01:09:22] then um i gotta go with

[01:09:25] cammy fit because she's

[01:09:26] gonna make she'll make

[01:09:26] me do like music videos

[01:09:28] when i hike with her

[01:09:29] next time if i don't if

[01:09:30] i don't give it to her

[01:09:31] so that's true yeah so

[01:09:34] congratulations

[01:09:35] there you go and there

[01:09:37] was much rejoicing yes

[01:09:39] and there was much

[01:09:39] rejoicing

[01:10:00] it's time for slashers

[01:10:02] guest of the week

[01:10:03] very cool

[01:10:04] very cool

[01:10:15] um all right chris this

[01:10:16] is your moment this is

[01:10:17] your big spotlight are

[01:10:18] you ready

[01:10:19] we'll see

[01:10:20] have you ever been on

[01:10:21] a podcast

[01:10:22] oh no

[01:10:23] it's my first

[01:10:24] do you like to talk

[01:10:25] about yourself

[01:10:26] well

[01:10:26] we're gonna give it a

[01:10:27] try

[01:10:28] we'll give it a try

[01:10:28] we will give it a try

[01:10:29] so stomp why don't you

[01:10:31] kick this off and give a

[01:10:32] little bit of background i

[01:10:33] think you had connected

[01:10:34] with chris and had

[01:10:35] thought that it would

[01:10:36] be cool to have him

[01:10:37] sit in with us and share

[01:10:39] his his story

[01:10:42] that's right so chris comes

[01:10:43] to us through uh

[01:10:45] instagram more or less

[01:10:47] and um i just uh

[01:10:49] noticed started noticing

[01:10:50] your work we've had a

[01:10:51] bunch of photographers

[01:10:52] on over the last few

[01:10:53] years and um um i really

[01:10:56] appreciated your

[01:10:57] photography and i think

[01:10:59] it was overdue for us to

[01:11:00] have somebody come in to

[01:11:02] talk about that and um

[01:11:05] ta-da that's it

[01:11:06] not only that but you're

[01:11:08] you're a hiker and trail

[01:11:09] runner or whatnot so i

[01:11:10] thought this would be a

[01:11:11] really cool listener

[01:11:12] spotlight for the night

[01:11:13] so thanks for coming in

[01:11:14] appreciate it good to be

[01:11:15] here

[01:11:15] cool so chris why don't

[01:11:17] you introduce yourself

[01:11:17] and talk a little bit

[01:11:18] about your background and

[01:11:20] how you got into trail

[01:11:21] running and hiking

[01:11:23] absolutely so

[01:11:26] uh my parents got me

[01:11:28] started uh we had

[01:11:29] a vacation spot in

[01:11:31] woodstock new hampshire

[01:11:32] so we'd come up

[01:11:34] hiking the summers uh

[01:11:36] skiing the winters and

[01:11:38] uh we'd always go up

[01:11:39] mount washington via

[01:11:41] tuckerman ravine or up

[01:11:43] franconia ridge on the

[01:11:45] classic loop so we do

[01:11:46] that in the summer and

[01:11:47] uh that's what uh started

[01:11:50] my relationship with the

[01:11:51] mountains and um i've

[01:11:55] always liked uh running

[01:11:59] so um at some point i

[01:12:01] realized i could do them

[01:12:02] together so i uh i

[01:12:06] started in rhode island

[01:12:07] running and the trails

[01:12:08] down there uh flat very

[01:12:11] different and then um i

[01:12:14] always wanted to move up

[01:12:15] to new hampshire i

[01:12:16] eventually convinced my

[01:12:17] family to move up after

[01:12:18] we went uh on a vacation

[01:12:20] in the lakes region there

[01:12:22] was the water and the

[01:12:23] mountains and uh different

[01:12:26] pace of life so you move

[01:12:28] up and went from rhode

[01:12:29] island to the mountains

[01:12:31] here and been doing it

[01:12:34] we moved up in uh

[01:12:38] 2018 right before everyone

[01:12:39] moved up to new hampshire

[01:12:41] good timing saved a little

[01:12:42] bit of money on buying that

[01:12:43] house yeah quite a bit

[01:12:44] yeah quite a bit

[01:12:46] welcome

[01:12:47] was it how big of a um

[01:12:49] sell job was it on your

[01:12:50] family to move up here

[01:12:53] well it wasn't hard so we

[01:12:55] were getting to the point

[01:12:56] uh where we were we were

[01:12:57] gonna buy a house and we

[01:12:58] didn't know if we really

[01:12:59] wanted to settle in rhode

[01:13:01] island or somewhere else

[01:13:02] and uh you know we just

[01:13:05] wanted a different pace of

[01:13:07] life and uh ability to get

[01:13:10] more land and you know a

[01:13:13] bigger house and so we we had

[01:13:15] the combination of the

[01:13:17] quality of life and a little

[01:13:19] quieter and uh after they

[01:13:21] came up and you know spent a

[01:13:22] week here it wasn't hard and a

[01:13:26] job came along pretty

[01:13:27] quickly after we took our

[01:13:29] vacation got it yeah because

[01:13:31] you're going from rhode island

[01:13:32] which is the most population

[01:13:34] density state in the country

[01:13:36] to right more rural area so it

[01:13:39] probably takes a little bit of

[01:13:40] adjustment i would think

[01:13:41] no sure certainly it was we

[01:13:43] used to live you know four

[01:13:44] minutes from the grocery store

[01:13:47] you know now it's a half hour

[01:13:50] nothing's close up right yeah

[01:13:52] it's okay you adjust

[01:13:54] rhode island half an hour is

[01:13:56] like you might as well just not

[01:13:57] get it that's right yeah i'm a

[01:13:58] native rhode islander myself so

[01:13:59] yeah oh yeah yeah we're invaded

[01:14:01] by the ocean state so you guys are

[01:14:02] both terrible drivers then

[01:14:04] obviously

[01:14:05] right i'm a mess now so i don't

[01:14:08] know if that's a sidestep or an

[01:14:09] upgrader

[01:14:09] i don't know so so you're in um so

[01:14:13] you're in an area look chris i

[01:14:14] feel like we don't talk about

[01:14:15] this enough like i definitely have

[01:14:17] talked about like mountains

[01:14:18] stairs and cube and cardigan but

[01:14:20] we don't i don't highlight it that

[01:14:22] much on the show um can you talk a

[01:14:25] little bit about like the western

[01:14:27] white mountains and and sort of

[01:14:30] where you like to hit up in that

[01:14:31] area

[01:14:33] sure yeah so uh yeah i live uh i

[01:14:37] live right near mount cube so

[01:14:40] that that's sort of my takeoff point

[01:14:42] i i do it a lot if anyone follows my

[01:14:45] feed it's like every fourth or fifth

[01:14:46] post is mount cube it's my welch

[01:14:48] dickey yep basically um nice but

[01:14:52] from there it's there it's called the

[01:14:55] middle connecticut river mountains

[01:14:57] so uh it goes from it basically they

[01:15:00] follow the appalachian trail from in

[01:15:04] hanover uh all the way up to just

[01:15:06] below musaloc

[01:15:07] so uh all those peaks are great along

[01:15:10] the trail

[01:15:11] um you have holt's ledge which has an

[01:15:14] amazing eastward facing view and as you

[01:15:18] keep going up then you hit a moose

[01:15:20] mountain

[01:15:21] uh and then

[01:15:24] moose mountain holt's smarts cube and

[01:15:28] then uh there's piermont mountain

[01:15:29] which has a little private trail up it

[01:15:31] and then uh the appalachian trail goes

[01:15:33] over ore hill

[01:15:34] webster slide those are some great

[01:15:36] trails

[01:15:36] over there webster super cool that's a

[01:15:40] really cool mountain beautiful like a

[01:15:42] down look oh yeah basically yeah so

[01:15:44] nice

[01:15:45] yep and uh there's a bunch of nice like

[01:15:49] side interconnected trails off of off

[01:15:52] of all those so

[01:15:53] cuban smarts they basically sit on like

[01:15:56] a high plateau so off the east side

[01:15:59] of it there's all these low rolling

[01:16:01] hills

[01:16:01] and that's the green woodlands they

[01:16:04] have a bunch of multi-purpose trails

[01:16:06] 70 miles of trails 24,000 acres and

[01:16:09] you can sort of connect to the appalachian

[01:16:11] trail

[01:16:11] and between cuban smarts you have the

[01:16:14] thompson tree farm and that connects to

[01:16:16] the green woodlands like a nice big fun

[01:16:18] area to explore

[01:16:19] a lot of really lesser traveled not a

[01:16:23] lot of people and off of moose mountain

[01:16:25] there's a lot of

[01:16:26] there's a lot of side trails

[01:16:29] yeah off of that especially off the south

[01:16:31] side

[01:16:31] yeah i've always been curious about that

[01:16:33] area so i have done

[01:16:34] from the dartman ski way up to smarts

[01:16:37] and and then cube and we stayed in one of

[01:16:40] the shelters there but i've always been

[01:16:42] curious about that section below dartman

[01:16:44] ski way that goes down into hanover so

[01:16:46] that's what you're talking about is that

[01:16:48] stretch

[01:16:48] of the at and then all the associated

[01:16:51] trails that are around that area

[01:16:52] yep just just south so you went up

[01:16:55] holtz ledge

[01:16:55] yes

[01:16:57] yep yep so just south of that that's moose

[01:16:59] mountain

[01:17:00] that's a big long ridge

[01:17:02] the appalachian trail goes over part of

[01:17:05] it but then the ridge actually swings east and

[01:17:08] there's a bunch of uh trails in the

[01:17:11] shumway forest

[01:17:12] so along the moose mountain ridge proper you

[01:17:15] probably get one outlook off of the south

[01:17:18] ridge that looks across the cardigan some

[01:17:21] lakes

[01:17:22] as it swings east that's it there's a ridge

[01:17:25] trail which has a bunch of outlooks which

[01:17:27] is really cool

[01:17:28] and a bunch of like nice woodsy

[01:17:32] logging roads and stuff like that

[01:17:35] yeah and you never see there's there's never any

[01:17:37] crowds over there right

[01:17:39] no no almost no one

[01:17:41] the only people i've seen on moose are

[01:17:43] hunters

[01:17:44] wow and then do you trail run the whole time

[01:17:47] or do you ever just just hike

[01:17:49] well if you trail run you know that trail

[01:17:52] running is really

[01:17:54] running like flats somewhat up and downs and

[01:17:57] then power hiking

[01:17:58] so as you know power hiking mixed in there

[01:18:00] yeah but uh yeah always running

[01:18:03] yeah you get out every morning

[01:18:06] i try to get out like three times a week

[01:18:08] three or four times a week

[01:18:10] yep get out in the morning before work or if i

[01:18:13] can't try to go after

[01:18:15] got it and then you have so you have a pretty

[01:18:17] good instagram page um

[01:18:21] i don't and stomp was i saw that you and

[01:18:23] stomp were exchanging messages and i was

[01:18:25] like originally like i looked at your

[01:18:27] your photos and i was like well he must use

[01:18:29] because nick and we've hiked with nick's

[01:18:31] got this big 35 millimeter camera that

[01:18:33] weighs 27 pounds that he'll whip out

[01:18:35] um but he also it's funny like the day

[01:18:38] that you took photos of it like the best

[01:18:40] photos i think were your iphone photos

[01:18:41] nick but chris so you don't even use any

[01:18:43] of those big you just use your iphone for

[01:18:45] your phone i don't bother no yeah

[01:18:46] yeah i have an old google pixel that i

[01:18:50] use oh google okay and uh

[01:18:52] yeah i i had a dslr uh but it doesn't

[01:18:55] like it's much easier uh just functionally

[01:18:59] when you're out running just you know take

[01:19:01] your phone out take a few and the technology

[01:19:03] has gotten so good and the editing so easy

[01:19:06] i think it comes out you know good enough

[01:19:10] otherwise you'd have to stop take it out

[01:19:12] of your pack or how did how do you do it

[01:19:13] um it's a bit i mean i'll mix with the

[01:19:16] phone and the camera i mean i'll bring the

[01:19:17] camera for video a lot of times but like

[01:19:19] to mike's point like the the picture i got

[01:19:21] of you that was like i posted that a lot

[01:19:23] of people ended up showing it was you going

[01:19:25] up the back side of adams but that was

[01:19:26] just with my iphone i shot in like a raw

[01:19:28] format so right a lot of times it's

[01:19:29] mix and match of just it's but to your

[01:19:30] point like yeah it's it's totally easier

[01:19:32] to just like pull out your phone and it's

[01:19:34] kind of amazing uh especially with the

[01:19:35] ability to shoot in like raw format or

[01:19:37] something now um and again i think i was

[01:19:39] talking to this about uh stomp actually

[01:19:41] before you got here but i feel like

[01:19:42] you're really great with perspective

[01:19:44] which is such a big part of photography

[01:19:46] like people it's you you can take a like a

[01:19:49] photo in the highest resolution equality but

[01:19:50] if it's like a crap perspective and it

[01:19:52] doesn't look interesting then it's kind

[01:19:53] of like it is a moot point so i i feel

[01:19:56] like i've also been following you on

[01:19:57] instagram for and admire your

[01:19:59] photography as well so yeah and i have on

[01:20:02] my notes here maybe that's what i'm like

[01:20:04] so i don't know the nomenclature around

[01:20:06] photography enough but like the way that i

[01:20:09] view your style chris is like you're

[01:20:12] taking photos above tree line but it also

[01:20:14] feels like you're in the tree so i think a

[01:20:17] lot of people take photos above tree line

[01:20:19] and it looks like you're looking down on

[01:20:22] things whereas you're taking photos above

[01:20:25] tree line or on ledges but it feels like

[01:20:28] you're almost below so you're some in some

[01:20:32] ways you're immersing yourself into the

[01:20:34] environment um versus like i think i you

[01:20:38] know i'm a hack i just i'm top down so i

[01:20:41] don't know does that make sense to you

[01:20:42] yeah i'd like i like to have a little

[01:20:44] foreground i uh i find it like alpine

[01:20:48] photographers kind of tough because you

[01:20:50] have no context yeah there's a lot of

[01:20:52] like dead open space so like having some

[01:20:55] you know spruce trees or something in

[01:20:57] there to just have some context yeah

[01:21:01] photography and give it like a sense of

[01:21:03] space all right so like i i think my

[01:21:07] natural instinct when i'm at a ledge is

[01:21:09] i'm like all right let me get the trees

[01:21:10] out of the way so i get a clue right you

[01:21:12] but you're not doing that you're you're

[01:21:13] you're using those trees to yeah sort of

[01:21:17] block the sun too because the sun will

[01:21:18] blow out the camera so get behind the

[01:21:22] tree and it sort of you know capture

[01:21:24] those flares right exactly nice yeah i

[01:21:27] never thought of that i'm always like

[01:21:28] i'm always of the mind like okay let me

[01:21:30] get the widest clearest view that i can

[01:21:32] but i think in that like i'm looking at

[01:21:35] some pictures right now i have them kind of

[01:21:38] and yeah it's not as cool as you i don't

[01:21:40] know i it seems like you're more immersed

[01:21:42] i don't get the impression you do much

[01:21:44] uh post editing is there is that accurate

[01:21:47] i i do instagram editing yeah not much

[01:21:50] yeah yeah i try to keep it like natural

[01:21:53] looking yeah it can look it can quickly

[01:21:57] like descend into looking yeah silly yeah

[01:21:59] really sweet really blown out yeah yeah

[01:22:01] good good work yeah and then um you're

[01:22:06] mostly out in the mornings just do you

[01:22:07] find that that's like a does that i feel

[01:22:09] like your your photos have a i won't say

[01:22:13] a darker view but a more um i don't know

[01:22:17] if they have more of a muted tone to them

[01:22:19] but the colors still pop but is that just

[01:22:21] is that because you you tend to get

[01:22:23] morning photos or it's probably the time

[01:22:26] of day the angle of the sun

[01:22:29] uh morning or sunset it's just a whole

[01:22:32] different quality of light more shadows

[01:22:34] photos you know yeah and do you tend to

[01:22:37] take like uh do you throw away a lot of

[01:22:39] photos or are you pretty good at like

[01:22:41] all right oh yeah yeah i i take it i take

[01:22:43] a bunch and then i import them all and i

[01:22:45] try to work them out and then i i try not

[01:22:48] to post like 10 to 20 in one i try to

[01:22:52] discipline myself you know so it's easy to

[01:22:56] fall to love with fall in love with all of

[01:22:59] them i try to sort of filter it out and

[01:23:01] get the best ones yeah see that's my

[01:23:04] problem i'm like all right i'm gonna

[01:23:06] post 27 because they're all great

[01:23:08] but they are and they are it gets boring

[01:23:11] anyway but uh and then what do you uh

[01:23:13] what's your typical gear when you're out

[01:23:15] there do you just use a running vest

[01:23:18] no i've i have a small backpack that i use

[01:23:21] uh with a hydration bladder in it and um

[01:23:27] yep that's it that's what i use that's a

[01:23:30] just a small pack it's a it's an off

[01:23:33] brand i can't even remember what it is

[01:23:34] but it's something i got as a as a gift

[01:23:36] and it's it's worked small orange packs

[01:23:39] got blaze orange built in nice helps this

[01:23:42] time of year and what do you wear fast for

[01:23:45] shoes solomons always yeah speed cross

[01:23:50] they have they have really good uh grip

[01:23:52] which is important when you're running

[01:23:55] i don't know i don't trust my solomons

[01:23:57] no you can't trust them on everything

[01:23:59] yeah it's funny my i actually have better

[01:24:01] luck with the hokus i'm in love with the

[01:24:03] hokus i hated them at first and they're

[01:24:05] still not very stable around the ankles but

[01:24:08] i've never had a boot that grips like

[01:24:10] these things wild i'm brooks cascadia

[01:24:14] i get ultra lone peak aids generally until

[01:24:18] it gets colder this time of year then i've

[01:24:19] just got keen boots yeah winter boots yeah

[01:24:22] wow so what's in your pack especially as it

[01:24:25] gets colder yep um so

[01:24:30] uh food food water obviously and then um

[01:24:35] i just have extra layers extra socks just

[01:24:39] in case uh as it gets colder um hot packs

[01:24:44] and um listening to the show i just bought

[01:24:48] an emergency blanket because a lot of my

[01:24:51] keeping warm is based on like moving yeah

[01:24:54] it's like you can't really layer very much

[01:24:56] when you're running you heat up really

[01:24:58] really really fast sure one of your

[01:25:01] guests mentions starting you know a little

[01:25:03] bit cold and that works out well

[01:25:07] because otherwise you're shedding layers

[01:25:09] like five minutes in yeah what uh what

[01:25:13] distance do you typically do when you're

[01:25:15] out there so uh between eight to twenty

[01:25:18] miles okay so you're going long it's a range

[01:25:21] you do that same distance in the winter

[01:25:24] uh no no definitely not uh so well it

[01:25:28] depends on what i'm doing in the winter

[01:25:31] so i uh i don't tend to go high in the

[01:25:35] winter because i've got some skin stuff

[01:25:37] going on the hot the winds at the high

[01:25:40] elevation don't treat me well i just

[01:25:42] like to to run really so uh i have running

[01:25:45] snowshoes and uh if you get on a groomed

[01:25:49] trail like the snowmobile trails or the

[01:25:51] green women's have groomed cross-country

[01:25:53] trails you can bang out that kind of

[01:25:56] mileage pretty easily but yeah if you're

[01:26:00] doing like a hiking trail that is pretty

[01:26:02] tough to keep up the same kind of mileage

[01:26:05] so how do running snowshoes differ from

[01:26:08] normal ones just like are they shorter

[01:26:09] and they're they're lighter that was the

[01:26:11] thing and they're sort of like pinched at

[01:26:12] the back and they snap up when you step

[01:26:14] okay are yours dion's uh i've been using

[01:26:19] crescent moon okay yeah dion's a nice

[01:26:22] brand yeah but they just broke last year

[01:26:25] so i was actually going to try dion's this

[01:26:27] time around oh yeah they're fantastic

[01:26:30] yep cool and it feels it's a little

[01:26:32] strange to get used to you have to have

[01:26:34] a little wider gate and uh you can't run

[01:26:38] the same speed but as you get used to it

[01:26:40] you can feel pretty nimble on them

[01:26:42] especially on a groomed trail you can just

[01:26:43] fly yeah yeah so you're not out there

[01:26:46] breaking trail you're waiting for

[01:26:48] hikers to break the trail first mix mix in

[01:26:50] hikes up cube and all that yeah yeah

[01:26:53] because you're not gonna be floating too

[01:26:55] well no true do you um i always tell

[01:26:58] people like one of the most spectacular

[01:27:00] well up until the time i went hiking with

[01:27:03] nick last winter on adams and madison the

[01:27:06] most spectacular undercast i ever saw was

[01:27:08] on the north north side of cube very cool

[01:27:11] um it was like a fall hike uh do you you

[01:27:14] get you get some good undercast up there

[01:27:16] consistently yeah we do so when you got it

[01:27:19] how high was the undercast it was um like

[01:27:22] right below you yeah it was literally like i

[01:27:24] could step out into it okay yeah we get a ton

[01:27:27] of valley fog there because the connecticut river

[01:27:29] valley is there yeah so we get a lot of like

[01:27:32] low laying undercast not as much like right

[01:27:35] underneath because uh like there's a lot of

[01:27:38] fields down there and as they let off the

[01:27:40] moisture and from the river you get a lot of

[01:27:43] cool like probably around a thousand feet in

[01:27:47] the morning especially so that's a good

[01:27:49] place to go if you want to check out an

[01:27:51] undercast yeah yeah pretty good chance of at

[01:27:54] least getting some valley fog if you get up

[01:27:55] there early yeah north peak has uh that that

[01:27:58] like really spectacular ledge that looks out

[01:28:00] to moose lock too right yeah yeah you got

[01:28:02] you got upper baker pond right beneath okay

[01:28:05] yeah i was gonna ask what the name is so i

[01:28:06] would imagine you must get some nice undercast

[01:28:07] on that side too occasionally with the yeah

[01:28:09] for sure but that's that's an amazing view of

[01:28:11] moose lock i remember being pretty pretty

[01:28:13] blown away the first time i get up there

[01:28:14] that's beautiful yeah it's a great sunrise

[01:28:17] angle and yep good view oh very cool yeah now

[01:28:20] have you always been a runner did you run

[01:28:22] your whole life yeah on and off and then i i got

[01:28:26] more serious about it in the last probably

[01:28:28] 10 to 12 years i've always enjoyed it

[01:28:32] once i figured out you know the hiking and

[01:28:35] the running together i was hooked yeah yeah

[01:28:39] see for me i i so i've always been a runner

[01:28:41] but for me it's just the running i do the i do

[01:28:44] trail running around where i live and um

[01:28:46] mostly it's just to stay in shape for hiking

[01:28:48] but you know if i oh sure if i don't do like

[01:28:51] 20 25 miles i've had some i had some mouth

[01:28:54] issues of last month but i'm back into it now

[01:28:56] but like if i don't do 20 25 a week i'm

[01:28:59] i'm like oh i had a i had a horrible week

[01:29:01] i just bang myself yeah absolutely it's mental

[01:29:03] health for me is i don't know if you feel the

[01:29:05] same way but for me this is what i think about

[01:29:07] life and i get my ideas for work and and everything

[01:29:11] i go crazy if i didn't yep and disorder turn off a little bit and get into nature

[01:29:15] yeah that's big yeah so and do you do races at all

[01:29:20] not at all no nothing uh i i do a lot of solo stuff and

[01:29:25] i like to be out there you know by myself or

[01:29:28] with a friend so i'm not not with big groups or anything like that i i've done one trail race in

[01:29:35] my 10 years of doing it and i did it down in rhode island it was fun yeah that's cool yeah um

[01:29:43] and then as far as getting out to other areas like you do get around i mean i was looking at

[01:29:47] your instagram today you get you get out to the sandwich range when how do you are you a i'm gonna

[01:29:52] just make a decision like the night before or do you have like a whole plan to pursue lists

[01:29:59] i do all the lists so i'm working on them all at once i i love uh redlining tracing yep so i do uh

[01:30:08] the white mountain guide and the southern new hampshire guide and uh the southern new hampshire guide is

[01:30:14] great for running actually because the trails are so the footing's good you don't have all the rocky

[01:30:19] scrambles that's a lot of fun up so and i do the 500 highest and uh i just finished my 48 i was dragging

[01:30:27] my feet on that for a long time i got to like 40 of the trails before i finished my 48 wow so

[01:30:34] i sort of try to work on all of it at once and you know weather conditions and time you know time

[01:30:41] availability sort of you know calculate it all together it's fun to get redlining in and a 500

[01:30:48] highest in at the same time or redlining and then grabbing a few 52 with a view on the way

[01:30:56] are you doing any of the uh new hampshire inappropriate 69 i might have i'm not sure

[01:31:03] i'm redlining so doing them all doing them all when do you think you'd be done with the redlining

[01:31:10] oh a bit years probably uh the that graft and notch area i haven't been to at all

[01:31:16] and uh just the whole east side of the range is like a two-hour drive for me so so getting over

[01:31:23] that'll take a long time that whole area so it's a project yeah yeah those so those aren't too bad

[01:31:29] but once you get into like evans notch yes or or you come out of pinkham notch that gets to be quite a

[01:31:36] drive from western new hampshire it's like i did the bald faces uh a couple weeks ago it was a two

[01:31:44] hour eight you know a little over two to get there yeah it's tough to do when you have moose lock 20

[01:31:50] minutes away it's like do you want to ride two hours to get out there yeah that's why me and

[01:31:56] stomp don't hike that often together because like i'm on i'm on the um the western main side and then

[01:32:02] he's over in right franconia or whatever wherever he that's a hall he lives so yep that's right it's

[01:32:10] like worlds away we are so um so this is good stuff um chris so are you at this point do you want do

[01:32:17] you have any because we had this issue with foliage like do you have any advice for people like what is

[01:32:22] your hidden gem for foliage that you that you're willing to share with the listeners

[01:32:30] sure well all mine are based locally so a bunch of the ones i did recently in western along the

[01:32:37] appalachian trail are uh are really good webster slide mountain is a great one

[01:32:44] yeah those pictures are insane i'm distracting them with pictures of eric todd sweet's biceps

[01:32:50] sorry hold sledge has excellent foliage uh cardigan area has excellent foliage cardigan area is great

[01:32:59] that's western new hampshire i i have you explored much there aside from uh the state park and i've done

[01:33:08] the fire all the sub peaks down to whole yeah uh loop before okay there's a lot of back country there

[01:33:16] that have some great uh peaks like orange mountain that you mentioned that yeah that's a nice alternative

[01:33:20] right across to cardigan you've got all the foliage right there uh and it also has these long ridges

[01:33:27] that go off the north and south uh there's one trail that goes from newfound lake all the way to

[01:33:32] cardigan and has some cool cool stuff along the way yeah i was gonna ask you about that because i think i

[01:33:37] saw you maybe did that fairly recently yeah i go there a lot okay yeah i grew up going to newfound

[01:33:42] lake so i did some my first hike into new hampshire there so i think it was the is the elwell trail

[01:33:46] that's the elwell trail yeah but i remember sugar yet another sugar loaf over there and stuff so

[01:33:50] yeah i was curious how is it easy to get to cardigan from there is it some places where the trail breaks

[01:33:55] up a bit or it's uh it's fairly easy to follow um the so yep so you start at the lake you go over the

[01:34:03] two sugar loaves you go over bear mountain okay and that's all fairly easy but then uh between bear

[01:34:10] mountain and oregon mountain there's a bunch of logging that happens so it can be tough to follow

[01:34:16] okay at times as you go through there but uh they there's been a couple new maintainers in the past

[01:34:22] two years and they do a great job okay of keeping it clear so it's 10 miles and then you link up with

[01:34:28] mowgli's trail okay i believe to get there very cool yeah i think i made it to bear before we've

[01:34:33] been i mean this is like probably like 15 years ago at this point so yeah yeah i was curious rugged

[01:34:37] rugged little guy super cool yeah well very good i think uh chris this has been interesting i i love that

[01:34:46] like western new hampshire side but i just haven't got a chance to get out there that often so it's a

[01:34:50] good reminder for the listeners that like there's a whole wealth of um awesome areas to get

[01:34:56] particularly i'm really interested in going between dartmouth and um smart smart i need to

[01:35:02] get out there at some point so it's on my list yeah that's cool it's yeah it's uh it's more mellow

[01:35:09] than the rest of it yeah yeah i think the theme tonight is how to avoid crowds so if you're listening

[01:35:15] right that's the area to check out although people are going to get mad at us for giving away secrets

[01:35:22] now have you ever had any issues with uh with rescue have you ever had to self-rescue because

[01:35:26] stomps going to talk about self-rescuing now well i do i do have a doozy of a story oh boy actually

[01:35:34] tee it up all right yep well i don't want to tell it but i think i should so sure uh do we need to

[01:35:41] get the shame drop ready well i got out okay by myself so but maybe we've all been noobs at some

[01:35:50] point right sure so uh so you know as as i stated earlier i started as a you know a trail runner in

[01:35:59] rhode island and then before we moved to where we are uh right off the western edge of the white

[01:36:06] mountains we were in the lakes region so the winters there are very different from the winters

[01:36:11] in the white mountains and the western whites so i sort of i was getting by with gear that

[01:36:22] like wouldn't fly in the higher peaks and i you know i didn't really uh consult you know um this is

[01:36:30] just sort of figuring it out on my own so uh i had moved to western new hampshire you know near the

[01:36:37] white mountains and uh i was enjoying uh the winter hiking and i took uh so after a fresh snow probably

[01:36:46] like two to three feet of fresh snow i came out of beaver brook up kinsman ridge planning to go to

[01:36:52] mount wolf so that's sort of an undulating lightly traveled trail in the winter

[01:37:00] and uh i was having a great time it was a cold morning but it didn't feel cold if you were moving

[01:37:07] and uh i was moving along well and then just as i got below mount wolf i noticed i couldn't feel my

[01:37:14] toes which had happened before as i'm starting to come to these higher peaks so i made my first poor

[01:37:22] decision so i took off my boot to try to warm my toes up and they they weren't warming up so like

[01:37:29] all right well i guess i got to turn around this isn't working out uh so when i went to put my

[01:37:36] feet back in the boot the boots were frozen oh man yep so they weren't insulated boots they're just my

[01:37:43] normal hiking boots so yeah right that was lesson one could you get your feet in well so how i got

[01:37:49] them in okay is uh so i was able to get you know my foot part of the way in and then i put my foot

[01:37:56] my foot and the boot in my backpack and walked around for a while to heat it up and eventually

[01:38:02] it slipped in wow geez and i had to get my snowshoes back on is it gonna get in or not

[01:38:09] yeah it was not good yeah it was not good so i got it in eventually and then uh

[01:38:15] there's the fact of trying to get the snowshoes on but my hands were feeling a little clumsy at that

[01:38:19] point so they were able to get one on and the other one was a little frozen so i had my right

[01:38:25] snowshoe on and my left snowshoe off i said well i better get moving so i started to make my way down

[01:38:32] i was holding holding well on the right sinking on the left just getting along uh making my way and

[01:38:41] eventually i i guess i generated enough heat i was able to get my foot in the snowshoe

[01:38:46] i was just going up and down and i didn't notice the undulation so much on the way down but on the

[01:38:52] way back it was really slowing me down and i just started getting really tired i felt like i wanted to

[01:38:58] go to sleep i shot a text to my wife it was like i might be in trouble i might not and then uh

[01:39:05] it's hardcore yeah eventually made it all the way down and i basically

[01:39:10] sort of stumbled down you know that steep as it comes right down to the highway

[01:39:14] to my car sort of stumbled down and uh made it to my car and i had to sit on the side of my car

[01:39:21] because i couldn't figure out how to get my snowshoes off so i had ended up getting

[01:39:27] frostbite on three uh three of my toes here three of my toes here and then i took my glove off

[01:39:33] and this finger was white so goodness dude oh geez hardcore that was a that was a lesson that i uh

[01:39:42] was able to get myself home and uh spent the next three hours sleeping after we had warmed up my feet

[01:39:50] and put some blankets on so i ended up having superficial frostbite and i assume hyper hypothermia

[01:39:59] yeah yep so that was sort of a wake-up call and then i you know i reached out to the community to

[01:40:05] see what kind of gear was missing the big thing was uh insulated boots having warmers hand warmers ready

[01:40:13] and uh i had a better uh deeper look at the forecast from then on out yeah i'm surprised your wife lets you

[01:40:23] go out by yourself still well you know since then i've had four years of good performance so

[01:40:30] now she doesn't worry is there any residual effects of the frostbite do you still no no i so i went back

[01:40:37] to work the next day and i uh my big toe was numb on one side for a couple weeks and uh the skin on my

[01:40:45] middle finger on my left hand like it was really dry and hard for a while but all good now yeah you're

[01:40:53] lucky i have a friend that had frostbite and he still feels it in the winter oh really yeah yeah

[01:40:59] so yeah um but wow that that's crazy so um that is definitely a situation so stomps gonna talk about

[01:41:06] like when to self-rescue and when not to self-rescue so stop that is like that's actually a perfect

[01:41:13] example of like all right that's just the example where you can't even afford to wait for somebody

[01:41:19] like you gotta go yeah yeah if you don't mind i'll just segue right into this

[01:41:28] slashers hiking topic of the week we recently got a couple messages from people that uh basically

[01:41:40] self-rescued and i will just read this one here um and it just really got me thinking about

[01:41:48] you know when is it appropriate to self-rescue and when is it to press the red button and call

[01:41:54] for help so let me tee this up here this is from a listener named kim uh quote unquote i hiked tri

[01:42:01] pyramids last week up scar ridge trail to avoid north slide since it was drizzly on and off

[01:42:07] hit the three peaks and started down south slide rolled my ankle right near the top of that damn scree

[01:42:13] but in my head i kept hearing you all self-rescue self-rescue so i got up and hobbled close to six

[01:42:22] miles out uh my new hampshire friend from high school was with me and very patient then drove three

[01:42:29] hours home to rhode island thankfully it was only a severe sprain so i'm recuperating pretty well uh

[01:42:35] not one to sit long kim so that's sort of the setup for this so it got me thinking like oh boy um

[01:42:42] i don't want us to give people the impression that you always have to self-rescue because that is not

[01:42:47] always the case there may be times where you are unable to do that under the circumstances and i think

[01:42:53] what you bring up um this is this is somewhat academic um what i'll present here briefly because

[01:42:59] i really would just want to open it up to the floor and talk about it but what you're talking

[01:43:03] about chris is potential harm versus certain harm so the potential harm of you sitting there would be

[01:43:10] i'm going to freeze to death or i'm going to get hypothermia i'm going to lose digits right now the

[01:43:15] the certain harm is you know say you find yourself in an avalanche zone or something like that you're

[01:43:21] definitely in trouble you got to get moving so these neat little things here um did did some digging

[01:43:27] found four factors that people can consider and when they're trying to figure out am i able to do this

[01:43:34] safely or am i stuck uh one of them is thorough analysis just analyzing the situation finding the best

[01:43:40] course of action uh we talked about the potential harms another example of the certain harm there was a

[01:43:46] rescue a couple summers back somebody went up the watcher the left slide and was about maybe 10 feet

[01:43:53] from the the topping out of the left slide gully and got stuck i mean this person couldn't self-rescue

[01:44:01] they were stuck i mean that is a certain harm so they they pulled the plug and called rescue and that

[01:44:07] was appropriate i mean there were times when you have to call for help so i i guess the big caveat

[01:44:11] here is i don't want people thinking that you always have to self-rescue because sometimes it's just not

[01:44:17] damn possible um i mean rescue is there to help you for sure um and again there were just times where

[01:44:26] medically it could be a medical emergency where you're just unable to move um and then there are other

[01:44:32] time critical situations as well what if you're having a heart attack so there are so many factors

[01:44:37] and i figured i'd bring it to the table to get some input from you guys and see what you thought

[01:44:43] about it yeah and we we sometimes i think me and som talked about this offline like sometimes we joke

[01:44:48] around like i've definitely said this word like i'm never gonna call for a rescue like i would never

[01:44:53] want my name in the paper and things like and it's like you can be macho about this stuff but

[01:44:56] we don't want the message to become um do something reckless like fishing game will tell you that they

[01:45:02] want people to call if they need help like they will be there and they will they will rescue you so

[01:45:07] um it's just trying to figure out like at what point do you make the judgment where okay you can try to

[01:45:14] get out on your own versus calling for that rescue and it's a fine line and there's no there's no

[01:45:21] definitive answer there yeah it's context specific and i think you know just to bring back kim's story

[01:45:28] that one's on the fence for me i mean six miles if that was a fracture or maybe it is a severe sprain

[01:45:35] six hobbling out six miles that could make your recovery a hell of a lot longer than calling rescue

[01:45:41] and and and part b to that is they could have probably driven out an atv and just picked her up

[01:45:46] yeah so always be aware of your options assess your options if you have a buddy you know just

[01:45:53] always have a plan before you step out the door what if i am in trouble what if i'm stuck

[01:45:58] can i shelter for 12 hours while i'm waiting for rescue can i shelter overnight am i going to be able

[01:46:03] to move uh really put some thought into it before you go out the door yeah and weather factors into

[01:46:10] this so so significantly oh yeah too um you know you have no margin for error when it's cold

[01:46:16] none right correct so if you don't have that shelter you're gonna have to self-rescue

[01:46:21] yep you may not be able to wait 12 hours or six hours for rescue uh or say you're on top of a summit

[01:46:27] and you can't move and all of a sudden a massive lightning storm comes in you're gonna have to move

[01:46:34] so it's very context specific yeah

[01:46:38] but bottom bottom end of the story here is don't not call uh don't think that self you know self-rescue

[01:46:46] is the only option i mean rescuers are there to help for sure yep i agree stomp any input boys

[01:46:55] i was gonna say that to tap off kind of what mike was saying about the winter is so problematic because

[01:47:00] i feel like you use your body so much to stay warm in the winter and that's just something that's so

[01:47:05] necessary so to me it's like it gets so cold like up in the presidentials the northern presidents like

[01:47:09] i don't think it would matter what amount of clothing you had on if it was at a certain temperature it's

[01:47:13] like it's it just doesn't matter um you need to get down below treeline right kind of fundamentally so

[01:47:19] it's i don't know it's one of those things i think you generally have to keep moving and like to me

[01:47:23] that would be if you're stuck on like atoms in a bad snowstorm or something and say you sprain your ankle

[01:47:28] or something like that you have to you have to get below treeline like at that point especially if

[01:47:32] there's weather but it's like mike was saying i think um i know in the winter especially like i'm

[01:47:36] kind of paranoid about watching uh watching the weather and checking like five different forecasts

[01:47:40] and trying to give so many angles and um even the observatory gets it wrong and like yeah they're

[01:47:45] they're on mount washington they're watching these things dynamically happen and they still can't

[01:47:49] predict um with with total with total uh i guess consistency all the time what exactly is going to

[01:47:56] happen a hundred percent of the time so it's um yeah it's it's weird but yeah i guess content to

[01:48:02] your point like context is is everything with that like the top of the south tri-slide too is a nasty

[01:48:06] place to like that whole scree field like kind of going up there i'd um yeah i couldn't probably not

[01:48:12] fun to go down that with a sprained ankle i would imagine yeah right yeah that's tough yeah but kudos

[01:48:21] to kim for gutting it out i will say like yeah i mean that's amazing the adrenaline had to have run

[01:48:26] out um oh yeah that's another point six miles like right just take advantage of the adrenaline

[01:48:33] oh that's that's right yeah that's another thing that i i um uh if you especially ankle injuries and

[01:48:41] foot injuries and things like that i think that um there's something to be said and and chris you pro i

[01:48:46] mean i guarantee that you're gonna you're gonna nod your head when i say this but like trail running

[01:48:51] with especially with trail runners like you lose focus for a second and then you'll roll that ankle

[01:48:57] and sometimes you roll that ankle and you're like wait a minute it did did is this serious or is this

[01:49:02] not serious and what was that pop yeah exactly and my my perspective on that is like okay worry about

[01:49:09] it but just keep going because the adrenaline of that even if you've severely injured injured it

[01:49:14] the adrenaline is going to keep going is going to keep you going and then you know you hopefully

[01:49:19] you'll get to the parking lot you crash severely i mean if you do a clean break or something like

[01:49:24] game over but if you've if you've rolled it keep going don't stop yeah as if you stop it's going to

[01:49:29] blow up yeah that's the biggest issue i was being stupid um a couple years ago after doing trainal

[01:49:35] maintenance and i was actually taking pictures coming down airline um after doing atoms and i was taking

[01:49:40] a picture and i rolled my ankle at the top airline so it was a good good roll too i could you could

[01:49:44] feel i feel like when you know when you feel like you've been on the ground on the side for a bit

[01:49:47] with your ankle you're like a crap like this is not going to be fantastic um but i had trekking

[01:49:52] poles on me which helped a bunch um and it was one of those like mike was saying like i was able to

[01:49:56] pretty much get down in my car and like not it hurt but not like luckily i was lucky too i mean

[01:50:02] frankly like i it wasn't an awful spot to roll it but as soon as i got back to like um where i was

[01:50:07] staying actually just in randolph like i don't know like five or ten minutes away and like i went to stand

[01:50:11] on the car and like immediately felt the pain but it's funny how it just comes back so quickly like

[01:50:16] that but i feel like if you keep moving on it like a lot of times at least with an ankle sprain it can

[01:50:20] it can help um yeah i think if i if you sit there for 30 minutes like you're kind of like it's not

[01:50:25] productive like you're kind of just waiting to see how bad it's going to get and um that's why i still

[01:50:30] always kind of carry at least one trekking pole on me even though i don't use them all the time

[01:50:33] because it saved me a lot that time to be able to put some weight on something else for sure

[01:50:37] yeah yeah yikes so all good stuff here stomp so um yeah like we said it's it's a it's a fine line but

[01:50:45] um you know ear on the side of calling if you need it for sure don't don't don't don't take what

[01:50:51] we say on this podcast and say like well you know i don't want to i don't want my you know we don't

[01:50:55] include anybody's names on here unless they're ridiculous so um you know call if you need it

[01:51:07] what was the guy i i was like usually i don't use people's names but i use the guy i was just

[01:51:10] trying to think i think it was like yellowstone i think it was a yellowstone tour on that like he

[01:51:15] he attacked a i don't know the animal or something so um there's too many stories come out of that

[01:51:24] area yes um all right you guys ready for some search and rescue we're only gonna do one tonight

[01:51:28] because we're running up on time and uh this one we'll probably have to double click into this one

[01:51:33] because that's a pretty crazy one on saturday october 12th at approximately 1 45 p.m fishing game was

[01:52:13] notified of an injured hiker between mount lincoln and mount lafayette so um pick the worst spot to get

[01:52:20] injured on the franconia ridge trail and this is it um well let's let's tie in some of this self-rescue

[01:52:26] idea as we go along here yeah yeah so you already know you're in the worst you're in the farthest

[01:52:33] location from the trailhead that you can possibly be right now because you're between lincoln and lafayette

[01:52:39] correct all right and the weather

[01:52:43] was he up to was he up to truman yet or was it between like that because there's a little peak

[01:52:48] in between both of them right it's it's the first forested section of the call it's the lowest point

[01:52:56] off for that lower falls okay yeah gotcha well so they they called in at 145 conservation officers

[01:53:04] responded to the old bridal path trailhead rescues had difficulty getting to the trailhead because of

[01:53:12] congestion this is prime time you know foliage weekend so 93 was congested so the first rescuers

[01:53:20] didn't even start up the trail until 3 p.m that's not horrible an hour and 15 minutes

[01:53:26] um the solo hiker had suffered a lower leg injury that was preventing her from continuing

[01:53:31] passing hikers had contacted 911 to report the incident as the injured hiker's phone had spotty

[01:53:37] service the injured hiker was having difficulty staying warm since there was winds of 60 to 80 miles

[01:53:45] an hour temperatures in their 30s um so this placed the wind chill in single digits so that's that's an

[01:53:52] issue is i think that you know the weather was pretty nice on saturday if i recall and um people were

[01:53:59] probably experiencing pretty good conditions down in the uh the notch but then as they get up above

[01:54:04] they're talking about single digits so it doesn't sound like the hiker was um well prepared for those

[01:54:11] conditions yeah the story goes on to say that amc uh dispatched two people up to the hiker before five

[01:54:20] uh to bring a sleeping bag so clearly she didn't have a sleeping bag or anything to keep herself warm

[01:54:28] yeah yeah exactly so amc again you know everybody likes to bash the cog in the amc but they are always

[01:54:36] the front line to get to these rescues and you know they had two people that got to her um the hiker was

[01:54:42] identified as a 33 year old from boston um she had planned a solo hike and had departed at 8 a.m so

[01:54:53] 8 a.m and then she made it to lincoln and lafayette so she's not not breaking any speed records there um

[01:55:01] and then it sounds like the rescue teams so so the amc gets to her at five

[01:55:08] they get her warmed up and get her in a sleeping bag rescue team arrives at six and then by 6 20 they've

[01:55:14] got her in a litter and they're commencing the the the carry out so there's about 25 rescuers um

[01:55:22] doesn't say i'm assuming that there must have been a lot of good samaritan hikers helping her out but

[01:55:27] maybe not i don't know i don't know how crowded it was up there maybe a lot of people turned around

[01:55:30] with the conditions when they got above tree line um rescue team took a short break at green leaf hut

[01:55:38] where they arrived so from 6 20 to 9 o'clock they got to green leaf hut and then from there um they've

[01:55:46] got to get down below the agony so you're talking 120 a.m on sunday um they got her out so this is a

[01:55:56] again a 33 year old hiker from boston she's doing a solo nine mile hike um she left at 8 a.m um

[01:56:04] first rescuers get there at five to get her warmed up and then she's in a litter at 6 20 and then she's

[01:56:12] out at 1 120 so that's a uh what's that a seven hour seven hour litter ride so um

[01:56:21] um she did initially try to hobble along the trail but soon realized that she would not be able to

[01:56:27] continue and complete the 4.2 miles so uh i guess she was transported from the trailhead by personal

[01:56:33] vehicle for evaluation but this is certainly a case where given the wind show conditions

[01:56:38] and the distance that you she would want to call immediately

[01:56:43] well she it sounds like she maybe she couldn't i mean she relied on passing hikers to call 9-1-1

[01:56:48] yeah maybe she didn't have a phone maybe her phone was cold who knows yeah um i mean thankfully there

[01:56:54] were people on trail um maybe what if it was uh an off weekend and there was just nobody on trail

[01:57:00] i mean she could have died it was in single digits 80 mile an hour winds no

[01:57:05] so that's that that's that situation i mean you would probably have to force yourself to move

[01:57:11] yeah yeah regardless i wonder if there was a lot of people coming across the ridge or if there was

[01:57:16] a lot of people that were poking their head up getting to like little uh haystack and then saying

[01:57:20] like and today's not the day yeah yeah i mean the trailhead was packed but yeah you're right

[01:57:28] yeah maybe they said nah maybe some other time true yeah so um and this it's just start thinking

[01:57:35] about like i always say carry a carry a splint and a wrap so that you have that but maybe that

[01:57:40] wouldn't have mattered in this case but um hot liquids as winter comes i always have a thermos

[01:57:45] with me it weighs too much but you know hot liquids you know chris like i hear your story like you you

[01:57:51] would have been in a lot better shape with the with the hot liquids that would have warmed you right

[01:57:55] up and then just a um um a sit pad or you know basically a closed cell pad so that you're not

[01:58:03] directly on the ground that that's the other piece if you lay directly on the ground in cold weather

[01:58:07] it's going to transfer that cold conditions to you and you're going to freeze quick

[01:58:12] you need that shelter yep padding so that's it stop good one all right boys so how do we get a

[01:58:20] hold of you chris online how can people follow you work see gothberg okay pretty straightforward on

[01:58:28] insta you see your beautiful work and how about you mr pudd um so you can my personal instagram that

[01:58:34] nick and nature and uh for a pudds podcast you can follow us at pudds podcast on instagram and

[01:58:39] facebook and whatnot awesome if you care to listen yeah this has been great yeah i appreciate you both

[01:58:44] coming out no problem of course yep and stomp you gotta edit this quickly because i'm going and

[01:58:49] meeting and chris you're welcome to join us if you want to go tomorrow but we're um i'm meeting nick

[01:58:53] in the morning um we're gonna do crescent and randolph loop up uh up by rando the randolph woods there so

[01:59:01] should be fun very cool awesome excellent until uh so we will we'll see you listeners in two weeks

[01:59:08] yeah see ya thank you for listening if you enjoyed the show you can subscribe on apple podcasts

[01:59:19] spotify podbean youtube or wherever you listen to podcasts if you want to learn more about the topics

[01:59:28] covered in today's show please check out the show notes and safety information at slasher podcast dot com

[01:59:35] that's s-l-a-s-r podcast dot com you can also follow the show on facebook and instagram we hope you'll

[01:59:44] join us next week for another great show until then on behalf of mike and stomp get out there and crush

[01:59:52] some mega peace now covered in scratches blisters and bug bites chris staff wanted to complete his

[02:00:00] most challenging day hike ever fish and game officers say the hiker from florida activated an emergency

[02:00:07] beacon yesterday morning he was hiking along the appalachian trail when the weather started to get

[02:00:13] worse officials say the snow was piled up to three feet in some spots and there was a wind chill of minus

[02:00:19] one degree and there's three words to describe this race do we all know what they are only one

[02:00:26] headless lieutenant james neeland new hampshire fishing games who's ended thanks for being with

[02:00:31] us today thanks for having me what are some of the most common mistakes you see people make when

[02:00:36] they're heading out on the trails to hike here in new hampshire seems to me the most common is being

[02:00:39] unprepared i think if they just simply visited uh hike safe dot com and got a list of the 10 essential

[02:00:45] items and had those in their packs they probably would have no need to ever call us at all