Episode 174 - Welcome Thru Hiker Oats from Sawyer! Franconia Ridge Hike and Trail updates

[00:00:08] Here is the latest Higher Summits forecast brought to you by our friends at the Mount Washington Observatory.

[00:00:18] Weather above treeline in the White Mountains is often wildly different than at our trailheads.

[00:00:25] Before you hike, check the Higher Summits forecast at mountwashington.org.

[00:00:31] Weather observers working at the non-profit Mount Washington Observatory

[00:00:36] Write this elevation-based forecast every morning and afternoon.

[00:00:41] Search and Rescue teams, avalanche experts, and backcountry guides all rely on the Higher Summits forecast to anticipate weather conditions above treeline.

[00:00:51] You should too.

[00:00:53] Go to mountwashington.org or text FORECAST to 603-356-2137.

[00:01:03] Alright, and here is your forecast for Saturday, November 9th, 2024.

[00:01:14] We have an alert this weekend for Windchill Advisory, which will be in effect from 8pm Friday through 12pm Saturday.

[00:01:24] So we have some cold temps coming.

[00:01:27] So we have some cold temps coming.

[00:01:28] Friday, let's see here.

[00:01:30] So Friday during the day, we have clouds with a chance of snow showers and a wintry mix early.

[00:01:38] Transitioning to snow showers late, possibly snow accumulations up at trace to 2 inches.

[00:01:44] Highs are going to be in the 20s.

[00:01:45] But with the winds, the winds are going to be 70-85 mph, increasing to 80-100 mph, with gusts up to 130 mph late.

[00:01:56] So the wind chill is going to be dropping to 0-10 above.

[00:02:00] So Friday night in the clouds with snow showers, possible snow accumulations of 1-3 inches.

[00:02:06] The low is going to be falling into the mid single digits.

[00:02:10] Winds are going to be northwest at 80-100 with gusts up to 130.

[00:02:14] And the wind chill will be falling to 20 below to 30 below.

[00:02:18] So damn.

[00:02:19] And then of course Saturday, this is the day for the Rescue Me 5K in Lincoln.

[00:02:27] So Saturday, in and out of the clouds with a slight chance of a wintry mix early.

[00:02:31] Trending towards mostly in the clear under mostly sunny skies.

[00:02:36] The high will be lower 20s.

[00:02:38] Winds will be northwest at 75-95 mph early, decreasing to 55-70 mph, and then with gusts up to 80.

[00:02:48] And the wind chill will be rising to a balmy 0-10 below.

[00:02:53] Super chilly weekend is afoot.

[00:03:31] Peckers Studio in the great state of New Hampshire.

[00:03:34] Welcome to the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast.

[00:03:37] Where we discuss all things related to hiking and search and rescue in the White Mountains of New Hampshire.

[00:03:44] Here are your hosts, Mike and Stomp.

[00:04:07] Okay, Stomp, episode 174.

[00:04:10] We are here.

[00:04:12] All right.

[00:04:12] And I'm going to crack it.

[00:04:14] You haven't used your teeth to open up a beer lately, have you?

[00:04:18] Oh, you've just missed it.

[00:04:19] Yeah.

[00:04:20] I've been using them.

[00:04:21] Got to keep them sharp.

[00:04:25] They're going to come to me.

[00:04:26] Are you going to run this weekend or what?

[00:04:35] No, no.

[00:04:36] Just doing the MC thing for the event.

[00:04:39] Okay.

[00:04:40] So we'll be on the microphones.

[00:04:43] Yeah.

[00:04:43] We're going to be doing the Rescue Me 5K in Lincoln, New Hampshire this weekend.

[00:04:50] What time does it start?

[00:04:51] 8 o'clock?

[00:04:52] No.

[00:04:53] Bit pickup is around 8.30 and the race starts at 10.

[00:04:59] So, you know, from 8.30 to 10, we'll be doing announcements and chatting away.

[00:05:04] And then, you know, National Anthem and all that good stuff towards the end, just before the launch.

[00:05:12] It's looking like it's going to be a pretty chilly weekend above Treeline.

[00:05:17] Yes.

[00:05:17] So, dress accordingly.

[00:05:23] But, yeah, it's going to be a good time.

[00:05:25] So looking forward to seeing everybody.

[00:05:27] And obviously, it's a great event for the Lakes Region Search and Rescue team.

[00:05:33] And I think they're upwards now of like 410 plus people for this race.

[00:05:39] That's a big crowd.

[00:05:41] Yeah, that's a big crowd for sure.

[00:05:42] Yeah.

[00:05:43] It's going to be excellent.

[00:05:44] Yeah.

[00:05:45] Sorry about that.

[00:05:45] I was coughing a little bit there, Stomp.

[00:05:47] You can edit that out, please.

[00:05:48] Oh, yeah.

[00:05:49] Sure.

[00:05:49] That'd be good.

[00:05:50] Yeah.

[00:05:50] But I think I'm going to meet you.

[00:05:51] So I'll meet you there in the morning and then I'm going to run the course ahead of time.

[00:05:55] I'm going to time myself on my watch.

[00:05:58] Yep.

[00:05:58] And then depending on what the time is, I'm just going to claim a play spot if I do well.

[00:06:05] Really?

[00:06:06] Yeah.

[00:06:07] I don't know.

[00:06:07] I'm just kidding.

[00:06:08] Oh, you're seeding?

[00:06:09] Yeah.

[00:06:09] You're seeding yourself?

[00:06:11] I'm going to run it and then I'll keep the time quiet.

[00:06:13] But I'll just do the course.

[00:06:16] Nice.

[00:06:18] Sounds good.

[00:06:19] Awesome.

[00:06:20] All right, Stomp.

[00:06:20] So welcome to the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast.

[00:06:23] This week we are joined by Thruhiker Oates from Sawyer.

[00:06:28] So you likely know Sawyer as the go-to company for water filtration products for hikers.

[00:06:34] Oates is their community manager.

[00:06:37] That's her trail name.

[00:06:38] So that's her trail name.

[00:06:39] And she's an experienced thru hiker.

[00:06:41] So she's going to join us for a segment to talk about her experience as a thru hiker.

[00:06:45] She'll give us advice on the AT and update on how recovery efforts are going in Western North Carolina.

[00:06:51] And then we'll talk about Sawyer's various product offerings and she'll even tell some stories about her super cool husky named Thruh.

[00:07:01] So we talk dogs a little bit.

[00:07:02] All this plus a backpacker is murdered in Montana.

[00:07:07] Oh boy.

[00:07:08] Yeah, geez.

[00:07:09] That took a turn there.

[00:07:11] Yeah.

[00:07:11] We're going to take a look at the story of a Kodiak bear whisperer by the name of Timothy Treadwell.

[00:07:18] We'll cover a recent hike on Franconia Ridge with some updates on the extensive trail work that was done over the summer and the fall,

[00:07:25] plus some recent search and rescue news.

[00:07:29] He's got a couple of stories.

[00:07:30] I actually have another story of someone getting murdered.

[00:07:35] So murder, mayhem and water filtration is the...

[00:07:40] Right.

[00:07:42] So I'm Mike.

[00:07:43] So upbeat and positive.

[00:07:43] Yeah.

[00:07:44] Sorry about that.

[00:07:45] So we'll keep it positive.

[00:07:46] So I'm Mike.

[00:07:47] And I'm Stomp.

[00:07:48] Let's get started.

[00:08:08] Let's get started.

[00:08:10] All right, Stomp.

[00:08:10] So we are going to go into our friend Christina.

[00:08:16] So do we want to talk a little bit about Christina and our new partnership here?

[00:08:21] She changed the name, as people may be aware.

[00:08:25] It used to be White Mountain Endurance Coaching.

[00:08:27] And now she's under the name of Raven Endurance Coaching and still offering...

[00:08:34] Wild Raven, excuse me.

[00:08:36] And yep, offering great online tutoring and coaching.

[00:08:41] And yeah, check her out.

[00:08:42] She's probably one of the best.

[00:08:44] Very well respected and very skilled in many areas.

[00:08:48] Not just coaching for long endurance type of activities.

[00:08:53] Yep.

[00:08:53] Yep.

[00:08:54] Whatever you need, she can help you out, which is great.

[00:08:57] Yep.

[00:08:59] Hi, I'm Christina from Wild Raven Endurance Coaching.

[00:09:02] I work with athletes of all levels, from hikers to triathletes, helping you reach your goals with personalized guidance.

[00:09:09] With years of experience hiking, mountain biking, and trail running across New England, I also have a deep knowledge of the New Hampshire 4,000 footers and the surrounding trails.

[00:09:19] Whether you're a beginner hiker or a seasoned athlete, I'll guide you towards your goals, reducing injury risk and improving your performance through smart, tailored coaching.

[00:09:29] Are you looking to transition from hiking to mountain running?

[00:09:33] I'm here to make that journey easier too.

[00:09:35] My approach combines strength training, mindfulness, and life balance on and off the trail.

[00:09:41] Let me help you find more joy in your sport while getting stronger and healthier along the way.

[00:09:47] Visit www.coaching.christinafulsik.com and start your adventure today.

[00:10:00] All right, Stomp.

[00:10:01] Do you like to go shopping?

[00:10:03] Are you a big shopper?

[00:10:05] So-so.

[00:10:06] Sometimes.

[00:10:07] Mostly online now.

[00:10:08] I don't like going to malls anymore, that's for sure.

[00:10:12] You don't.

[00:10:12] Unless I absolutely have to.

[00:10:14] Yeah, yeah.

[00:10:15] I did a lot of shopping when I was in London, but I don't often go shopping.

[00:10:18] Do you ever return merchandise?

[00:10:20] Do you ever go to buy stuff and then you go back to the store and you have to return it?

[00:10:25] Not too often, thankfully.

[00:10:26] Not too often.

[00:10:28] All right.

[00:10:29] Well, I am-the reason I asked this, Stomp, I never just-I never just talk to you just to talk to you.

[00:10:34] I always have like a-a-a-motivation to talk to you.

[00:10:41] You know, if we weren't doing the show, I would never even have a conversation with you.

[00:10:45] But the reason I asked this stuff is because REI is banning some members from making returns and exchanges.

[00:10:52] So the company said it determined that less than 0.02% of members have abused the return policy and those members will no longer be able to return items starting Wednesday.

[00:11:07] So our friend Al sent this over to me and it's out of Denver, Colorado.

[00:11:14] So tell the story of a REI co-op member by the name of Lindsey Powell.

[00:11:20] Lindsey claims she has no idea what she did wrong.

[00:11:23] Stomp.

[00:11:25] That's interesting.

[00:11:26] They're going to say what she did wrong and I'm going to tell you right now, she did wrong.

[00:11:30] So she's playing innocent here, but there's an issue.

[00:11:33] So she got an email that said that she's lost a privilege.

[00:11:38] That's the reason she bought a $30 membership to REI 12 years ago.

[00:11:43] The ability to return and exchange.

[00:11:45] So I didn't pay for my membership for REI so I could return stuff.

[00:11:49] I paid for it so I could buy things.

[00:11:51] So already I'm not liking this, this, where this is going.

[00:11:56] So Lindsey says, my biggest complaint is I feel like myself and other members were getting punished for something that we didn't even know what the rule was to begin with.

[00:12:07] Okay.

[00:12:08] So on October 30th, Lindsey got an email from the REI policy and standards team and they said, when we reviewed your account, we found that the number and frequency of returns you have made far exceeds what we typically see from members.

[00:12:24] When we stand behind the gear we sell and we recognize that we don't always get it right, we noticed that this was an established pattern rather than an isolated event.

[00:12:33] So big brother's watching when it comes to REI.

[00:12:35] Yeah, wait a minute.

[00:12:35] So it's an online order or is she going in person?

[00:12:39] I don't know.

[00:12:39] It probably could be both.

[00:12:41] It could be both.

[00:12:43] And here's the thing.

[00:12:44] So the email is part of a policy change from the company, which was confirmed by, I guess, Steve on your side, who was like the Colorado version of, I forget what we have in Boston, but basically you can call up these news reporters and they'll investigate stuff.

[00:13:01] So REI goes on to say that they've identified a very small subset of members, less than 0.02% of 24 million plus members who demonstrated a clear abuse of our policy said Katie Borosky, the senior manager of store communications.

[00:13:23] While they still will be welcome to shop with us, they will no longer be welcome to make returns or exchanges.

[00:13:30] So you bought it, you own it, stomp.

[00:13:34] Wow, interesting.

[00:13:35] Yeah.

[00:13:35] Now, Lindsay, she says that she does not consider herself a serial returner.

[00:13:41] She, first of all, she's got a spreadsheet of all of her transaction history.

[00:13:47] So she shared the spreadsheet with this Steve on your side.

[00:13:51] It shows since 2014, she spent $11,000 on REI and she's returned $3,100 worth of merchandise.

[00:14:03] So this is where I feel like she's guilty because she spent $11,000 and then she took over $3,000 back.

[00:14:14] So it sounds like it must be online then.

[00:14:16] I don't know.

[00:14:17] I don't know.

[00:14:18] Because she talks about her feet.

[00:14:20] Yeah.

[00:14:21] So she says she's got a diagnosed foot condition and small feet.

[00:14:25] So the stores don't have her shoe size in stock.

[00:14:27] So recently she said she ordered several pairs of sandals with arch support as recommended by her podiatrist,

[00:14:34] but she found the sandals didn't feel comfortable.

[00:14:37] She said she also tried out gear that claimed to be waterproof and returned it when it wasn't.

[00:14:43] Okay.

[00:14:44] It seems clear.

[00:14:46] She's like doing a virtual sit down with a shoe dog, ordering several pair, finding the right one,

[00:14:53] and then sending the six back.

[00:14:55] Yes.

[00:14:56] And keeping one.

[00:14:57] Yes.

[00:14:58] Oh, geez.

[00:14:59] That's pretty unusual.

[00:15:00] Yes.

[00:15:01] Clever.

[00:15:01] But here's what she says.

[00:15:02] And I don't know where Ari I say to her.

[00:15:04] She says their whole philosophy is based upon testing their gear out.

[00:15:09] And, you know, if you're not satisfied with it for any reason, you can bring it back.

[00:15:14] Right.

[00:15:14] So she says, in my mind, I'm purchasing things and I'm testing it out either to say that it's going to work or it's not.

[00:15:24] And I'm purchasing multiple sizes of something to see what's going to work for me.

[00:15:29] So, yeah, she's probably doing a lot of online nonsense.

[00:15:32] I've done that before, actually.

[00:15:33] Interesting.

[00:15:33] I've ordered a medium and a large, but very rarely.

[00:15:36] Really?

[00:15:36] Yeah.

[00:15:37] Just to see.

[00:15:37] I've never done that.

[00:15:38] That thought has never occurred to me.

[00:15:40] Like, oh, I should get three or four and then just return the others.

[00:15:44] Yeah.

[00:15:44] In a pinch, I've done that a couple of times with like hoodies and things like that.

[00:15:47] But anyway, so Lindsay, she responded to Ari I's email asking what evidence they were using.

[00:15:54] And Ari I said, we cannot provide specific details about how we determine our policy of abuse.

[00:16:02] So, and they wouldn't even confirm it.

[00:16:05] But I guess this is a trend in retail and some retail expert who runs a website called Rather Be Shopping says he's seen stores on social media or stories on social media of some of our AI shoppers buying gear,

[00:16:21] using it to hike a complicated trail and then return it at the end of the journey.

[00:16:25] So, um.

[00:16:26] Yeah.

[00:16:27] That makes sense.

[00:16:28] Yeah.

[00:16:29] So, it's a little shady.

[00:16:30] But Ari I does like, they're well known for their like garage sales.

[00:16:33] So, they have like in the Redding store where I go, Redding, Mass, they have like a closet in the back that's sometimes open.

[00:16:39] And there's a lot of like sleeping bags, tents, a lot of, um, uh, sleep pads, things like that.

[00:16:47] There is a decent amount of shoes too.

[00:16:48] So, that is the one thing that does kind of stink is I'm thinking these serial returners are probably the ones that stock up the REI garage sales pretty well.

[00:16:59] So.

[00:16:59] Yeah.

[00:17:02] Interesting.

[00:17:02] I call it guilty.

[00:17:03] Time to tight.

[00:17:04] $11,000 worth of purchases and she's returning $3 out of every $0.11.

[00:17:10] That's a pain in the neck.

[00:17:12] Yeah.

[00:17:13] Yeah.

[00:17:13] That, that chips into, uh, the margins for REI for sure.

[00:17:18] Yeah.

[00:17:18] All that time spent returning stuff.

[00:17:20] She could be out hiking.

[00:17:24] I, I'm going to take a stab at this and say she's not much of a hiker.

[00:17:28] I don't know.

[00:17:29] But here's the other thing too, is like her trail name should be Littlefoot, but Littlefoot's taken.

[00:17:33] So, now you can't call her Littlefoot.

[00:17:38] Littlefoot.

[00:17:38] Yeah.

[00:17:39] So, anyway, stop.

[00:17:41] So, so listeners.

[00:17:42] Littlefoot's not going to be Little forever.

[00:17:42] Yeah.

[00:17:43] True.

[00:17:43] True.

[00:17:44] But listeners, if you think you're going to play games with REI, they're, they're onto

[00:17:48] you.

[00:17:48] So, good luck.

[00:17:51] Hmm.

[00:17:52] Wow.

[00:17:53] All right, stop.

[00:17:54] Let's turn to some more positive news here.

[00:17:56] A brutal murder of backcountry camper in Montana.

[00:18:00] So.

[00:18:00] Oh, geez.

[00:18:01] Yeah.

[00:18:01] I heard about this one.

[00:18:03] Yeah.

[00:18:03] No, this is terrible.

[00:18:04] So, um, this is out of Montana.

[00:18:06] So, um, a Montana man confesses to a brutal murder of a camper using a screwdriver and an

[00:18:15] axe.

[00:18:17] Oh.

[00:18:19] This guy looks like a murderer.

[00:18:22] Yeah, he sure does.

[00:18:23] So, what are the deets here?

[00:18:25] So, it's in Gallatin Canyon, Montana.

[00:18:28] A suspect who confessed to the killing of a gentleman by the name of Justin Gersom, a camper

[00:18:35] near Big Sky, Montana last month is in custody.

[00:18:39] Uh, there was a lot of nervous hunters and other campers in that national forest that were

[00:18:46] nervous.

[00:18:47] Uh, but the details of the actual crime revealed on Halloween still add up to a bad nightmare,

[00:18:53] according to the article.

[00:18:54] So, officers arrested Darren Christopher Abbey, 41 years old, in the murder of Gersom, and

[00:19:01] attack witnesses initially believed to have been the work of a beer because of its brutal

[00:19:06] nature.

[00:19:07] The killing, which took place at the victim's campsite, has disturbed the region, shattering

[00:19:12] the idyllic image of the outdoors and fall camping trips where many seek to escape

[00:19:17] crime and other problems, plaguing big cities and towns.

[00:19:22] So, essentially, Gersom and his killer, um, I guess this happened on October 10th.

[00:19:29] The victim arrived in the, uh, the camping area to set up camp, which included a wall tent

[00:19:35] complete with a stove, a wood stove, bed, lamps, he got his whole set up there.

[00:19:40] The victim possessed a handgun and a shotgun, and he planned to bring his girlfriend up to

[00:19:44] the camp the next day.

[00:19:46] But that night, um, this guy, the murderer, rolled into Gersom's campsite, and he was looking

[00:19:52] for a place to camp on Thursday night and had planned this particular site.

[00:19:57] As he approached the site, he realized someone was staying there.

[00:20:01] Oh, boy.

[00:20:01] And, um, the guy, like, you know, welcomed him to the campsite and offered him a beer

[00:20:06] to hang out.

[00:20:07] And at some point, I guess the, uh, the murderer, um, struck Gersom with a piece of wood, stabbed

[00:20:16] him in the neck with a screwdriver, and ultimately hit him with an axe.

[00:20:20] So, um, really crazy story.

[00:20:22] And the, the victim's girlfriend didn't hear from him, so she took a companion and they

[00:20:28] drove up to the tent site and discovered him.

[00:20:31] And they thought that it was an attack by a beer, but it was, um.

[00:20:34] Oh, like a grizzly.

[00:20:35] Yeah, yeah.

[00:20:36] So, um.

[00:20:37] Huh.

[00:20:38] And the investigators, they don't really know exactly what the motivation was or what caused

[00:20:42] this.

[00:20:43] Um, but they're, the only witness is the, the murderer, so they're not willing to really

[00:20:48] give a lot of details yet until they figure it out.

[00:20:50] But, uh, it's a scary story.

[00:20:52] It is, they do emphasize that this is a rare situation and that it's, it's very unlikely

[00:20:57] that, uh, something like this happens.

[00:20:59] It just doesn't happen very commonly.

[00:21:02] Yeah.

[00:21:03] Yeah.

[00:21:03] So, basically a campsite dispute.

[00:21:06] Maybe.

[00:21:08] Yeah.

[00:21:08] With a psychopath.

[00:21:10] Yeah.

[00:21:10] It sounds like it.

[00:21:11] I mean, the, the, the, the victim was armed.

[00:21:13] I think he was just being a nice guy, friendly to, uh, the stranger.

[00:21:18] And, unfortunately it, it, it, it turned out wrong for him.

[00:21:22] Yeah.

[00:21:22] No, it wasn't, wasn't too deep into the back country.

[00:21:24] It's like two, two and a half miles.

[00:21:26] Yeah.

[00:21:26] This was not like a hiking or backpacking type of thing.

[00:21:29] This was just a, um, just a, you know, a campsite sort of like going to Tripoli road

[00:21:35] or something for us.

[00:21:36] You got to keep your head on a swivel anyway.

[00:21:39] Just, just all the time.

[00:21:41] Anywhere.

[00:21:42] It doesn't matter.

[00:21:44] Yeah.

[00:21:45] Yeah.

[00:21:45] It's, um, it's definitely tough.

[00:21:48] You know, we talk about, uh, you know, safety on the trail and you can't afford to let your

[00:21:53] guard down at all, I guess.

[00:21:54] Right.

[00:21:55] Just scary.

[00:21:56] Um, it's, it's interesting because, um, there's another story going on out of Tennessee right

[00:22:04] now, same situation.

[00:22:06] Um, uh, gentleman, I guess this, this gentleman had some mental health issues.

[00:22:11] He was, he had what's called reactive attachment disorder, which says it's a rare but serious

[00:22:17] condition in which infants or young children don't establish healthy attachments with their

[00:22:21] parents or caregivers.

[00:22:22] So, um, this hiker was unfortunately killed last month in Tennessee and the murderer actually

[00:22:31] staged it as a, as a black bear attack in the Tennessee woodlands.

[00:22:36] And, you know, now they are looking for this guy.

[00:22:39] The murderer's name is Stephen Douglas Lloyd of Knoxville.

[00:22:43] And apparently he connected with this victim.

[00:22:46] Uh, the victim thought they were friends and unfortunately, um, he got set up to be robbed.

[00:22:52] They went out for a little, a little hike and, um, it was a weird situation.

[00:22:58] The murderer actually called and claimed to be a distressed hiker by the name of another

[00:23:05] name and told dispatchers that, um, he had fallen off a cliff while running from a bear

[00:23:10] and he was injured and partly in the water.

[00:23:13] So they, that, that initiated a search and rescue situation.

[00:23:17] When the rescue was arrived, they found the body and it turns out, um, this, this, this guy,

[00:23:26] Nicholas Wayne Hamlet, what he was doing was finding like homeless people or people that

[00:23:30] were out of their luck in stealing their identity.

[00:23:34] So he had the identity of this other person.

[00:23:37] And when he was done using it, he put it on the body of the next victim and then took all

[00:23:44] of the ID and information from this victim that he staged for the bear attack and is now on

[00:23:50] the run.

[00:23:50] So, um, he was apparently wanted out of Alabama on a parole viral violation.

[00:23:58] And they determined that this guy Hamlet used fake names when calling, if we used a fake

[00:24:04] name, when calling dispatch after the distress call.

[00:24:06] And, um, they think that he has fled, um, fled the area with the plans to like use this guy.

[00:24:13] But I don't know how good this guy's ID would be now that they know that the whole situation

[00:24:17] happened because now he's dead.

[00:24:19] So, oh my God.

[00:24:22] What the hell?

[00:24:23] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:24:24] It's like a Netflix movie or something.

[00:24:26] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:29] So what's going on there with the sightings of the guy?

[00:24:32] Yeah, yeah.

[00:24:33] So there are, um, apparently there's been some sightings of this guy.

[00:24:37] So there's a manhunt in South Carolina now.

[00:24:40] Um, and this guy, Nicholas Wayne Hamlet, he has been sighted on,

[00:24:46] he's been sighted on a trail cam on Wednesday at about 1230 AM near this high school in South

[00:24:53] Carolina.

[00:24:54] So this guy's out wandering in the woods and there's like a massive law enforcement presence

[00:24:59] in the area looking for him, but they haven't been able to find him yet.

[00:25:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:25:04] So everybody in this area of South Carolina is on edge and, uh, the guy looks pretty,

[00:25:11] pretty scary looking dude.

[00:25:13] Mm.

[00:25:13] Mm-hmm.

[00:25:15] And as I was reading these cases, Stomp, I was wondering, I was like, why did they,

[00:25:18] do you know why they always use three names when they have, um, murder suspects or murder,

[00:25:24] um, victims?

[00:25:26] What do you mean?

[00:25:28] What?

[00:25:28] They'll, they'll use like, um, you know, like John Stephen Smith.

[00:25:34] They use like the middle name too.

[00:25:36] Uh, I would assume just for identification.

[00:25:40] Yeah.

[00:25:40] Yeah.

[00:25:40] It's like historical precedent.

[00:25:42] So, um, I guess media journalistic, um, and legal standards provide, uh, are required

[00:25:47] that they provide complete information about the suspects and that they, um, they want to

[00:25:53] distinguish the individual and they don't want to have a situation where anybody can get

[00:25:58] confused.

[00:25:58] So they use like the first name, middle name, last name.

[00:26:01] That's why you always have the, the murderers have these three names.

[00:26:05] Yep.

[00:26:05] Makes sense.

[00:26:07] So Stomp, if I ever got sick of you and I got arrested for something, I would be Michael

[00:26:12] Frank McLaughlin instead of just Mike McLaughlin.

[00:26:18] Frankie.

[00:26:19] Yes.

[00:26:19] Yes.

[00:26:20] I didn't know your middle name was Frank.

[00:26:21] Yes.

[00:26:22] Yes, it is.

[00:26:23] That's great.

[00:26:23] I come from a family of Franks.

[00:26:25] Was it like an uncle or something?

[00:26:26] Uh, my father's name is Frank.

[00:26:28] Oh, got it.

[00:26:29] Got it.

[00:26:30] Excellent.

[00:26:30] But he goes by Mick.

[00:26:32] So I don't know how that happened.

[00:26:34] Uh, got it.

[00:26:36] I think it's just like a short nickname for McLaughlin.

[00:26:40] Hmm.

[00:26:41] Yeah.

[00:26:42] That's cool.

[00:26:43] So anyway, that's it.

[00:26:44] So, um, the next one here.

[00:26:46] So I wanted to, the, the last two stories were about somebody staging people dying to look

[00:26:54] like victims of, of a black bear or brown bear grizzly.

[00:26:59] The next story Stomp I pulled is I got a video sent to me, um, about a gentleman by the name

[00:27:07] of Tim Treadwell.

[00:27:08] Have you heard of Tim Treadwell?

[00:27:10] No.

[00:27:10] So I got a feeling, you know, that you've seen this.

[00:27:12] So Tim Treadwell is known.

[00:27:15] Um, he, he was like a pretty well-known, um, grizzly bear, Kodiak bear.

[00:27:22] Um, not so much a researcher, but like, uh, um, he was a, a bear enthusiast and environmentalist.

[00:27:32] He did documentary films.

[00:27:34] He was the founder of a bear protection organization called Grizzly People.

[00:27:39] And he lived among these like coastal brown bears in, um, in Alaska for like 13 summers.

[00:27:48] He would go out there and eventually by, and he would like, he would be like petting these

[00:27:53] black bears and really interacting with all these brown bears, interacting with them pretty

[00:27:58] closely.

[00:27:59] And eventually in October of 2003, Treadwell and his girlfriend, uh, were killed and almost fully

[00:28:07] eaten by a 28 year old male bear whose stomach was later found to contain human remains and clothing.

[00:28:14] So, um, there was a documentary, uh, critically acclaimed documentary called Grizzly Man.

[00:28:21] So this guy, he would do these Alaskan expeditions.

[00:28:24] Uh, he was a lover of animals since he was a kid.

[00:28:28] And, um, I don't think he had any formal training, but he would love to go and watch these bears.

[00:28:33] And then over time he, um, started to, uh, just basically get up there and live with them.

[00:28:41] He had some conflicts with the national park service.

[00:28:44] Um, you know, the park service had expressed worries about his behavior and, uh, they put

[00:28:50] some restrictions on him and they kept the file on him.

[00:28:54] Um, he had a number of violations.

[00:28:56] He would guide tourists without a license.

[00:28:58] He would camp in the same area longer than the park service's seven day limit.

[00:29:03] He would, you know, do food storage improperly.

[00:29:07] He would harass the wildlife and then have conflicts with other visitors and guides.

[00:29:12] So the guy was a bit of a handful.

[00:29:14] Um, yeah, but he did legitimately have, um, like a strong relationship with these bears.

[00:29:23] Like he would like go right up to them and, um, and talk to them.

[00:29:27] Um, but this video that I'll, I'll share in my show notes was a breakdown from a, a PhD,

[00:29:33] like psychoanalysis of this guy.

[00:29:37] And it basically broke down that, um, he had some mental issues that were causing him to

[00:29:44] be at significant risk.

[00:29:46] One of them was that, uh, he had replaced his addiction to alcohol with, um, he basically

[00:29:53] replaced it with an addiction to beer.

[00:29:54] So, um, in order for him to stay sober, he applied his sort of tendencies to be an addict

[00:30:02] towards the bear.

[00:30:03] So he was obsessive about it.

[00:30:04] He also had some issues where he never really outgrew some of the childhood trauma that he

[00:30:10] dealt with.

[00:30:10] So there's videos of, he videotaped himself around these bears for many, many years.

[00:30:16] So there's hours and hours of, uh, video footage of him interacting with the bears.

[00:30:20] And he often talks to the, the bears like a child and he talks about the bears like a

[00:30:24] child.

[00:30:25] So he really like, didn't see them as a, um, as the true risk that they were.

[00:30:34] And ultimately he, you know, from, from the perspective of this psychoanalyst, they, he

[00:30:42] thought that, um, it was astonishing that he lasted as long as he did because he would

[00:30:48] interact so childlike with them.

[00:30:51] And, um, you know, he also, this addiction issue with him, he was more willing to take

[00:30:57] risks to sort of, you know, get the thrill of, of, uh, being up close to these.

[00:31:02] So it's an interesting video.

[00:31:03] So I'll link in the show notes, but it's ultimately like, you know, sometimes the things that you

[00:31:08] love can kill you.

[00:31:10] Yeah.

[00:31:10] Mental illness can kill you.

[00:31:12] Yeah, for sure.

[00:31:13] But delusional.

[00:31:15] Wow.

[00:31:15] Yeah.

[00:31:16] And you could see this videos all over YouTube with this guy interacting with the bears.

[00:31:20] And I think the, the bear that eventually killed him, um, it was known to him as well.

[00:31:27] And, um, you know, his girlfriend, the, the sad thing is, is that the girlfriend who did

[00:31:34] come along, she was very uncomfortable in the bear's presence and she kept a journal.

[00:31:39] And she had even said in her last entry that she wanted to be away from that area.

[00:31:44] Um, Treadwell had set his campsite up near a salmon stream where the wild bears commonly

[00:31:50] fed in the autumn.

[00:31:52] And, um, you know, he was there later in the year than normal at a time where bears attempt

[00:31:57] to gain as much fat as possible for the winter.

[00:32:00] Food was scarce in that particular area, causing the bears to be even more aggressive than usual.

[00:32:05] So, um, so yeah, it's just unfortunate series of events, but yeah, the girlfriend, I think,

[00:32:13] just was really uncomfortable with the whole thing, but she went along with it and unfortunately

[00:32:17] it cost her her life.

[00:32:20] Awful.

[00:32:21] Crazy story, Storm.

[00:32:23] What an uplifting show.

[00:32:24] I know, geez, I'm sorry about this.

[00:32:26] I'm, we usually were more positive.

[00:32:28] Yeah, well, we have some good news coming soon.

[00:32:31] We do?

[00:32:32] Oh yeah.

[00:32:33] Our guests.

[00:32:34] Oh, that's true.

[00:32:35] Doing some good work out there.

[00:32:36] Yes.

[00:32:36] Yeah, that's true.

[00:32:38] That is true.

[00:32:38] So I'm trying to think, did we get anything else here?

[00:32:40] Yeah.

[00:32:41] It's a rough start to the show, Storm.

[00:32:43] I apologize.

[00:32:44] Why don't I make it up with a dad joke?

[00:32:47] Yeah.

[00:32:48] That sounds like that always lifts the spirits.

[00:32:51] Okay.

[00:32:51] Let me just look through my little book of dad jokes.

[00:32:56] What did one snowman say to the other snowman?

[00:33:01] I don't know.

[00:33:02] I can smell carrots.

[00:33:05] Get it?

[00:33:06] Get it?

[00:33:06] Because the nose is a carrot?

[00:33:10] That's great.

[00:33:11] Yeah.

[00:33:12] Why did the music teacher need a ladder?

[00:33:17] I have no doubt.

[00:33:18] To reach the high notes.

[00:33:21] Oh God, that's bad.

[00:33:23] That was almost kind of stupid.

[00:33:24] Thank you to my friends Camilla and Lance for their dad joke.

[00:33:28] Bump bump bump.

[00:33:30] That's right.

[00:33:31] You know, we don't talk politics on the show here, Stomp, but I had to stay up late the other night to watch the presidential election.

[00:33:38] And the only way that I was able to stay up that late, because I normally go to bed early, was to drink some coffee.

[00:33:45] Do you like coffee, Storm?

[00:33:46] Oh, I love coffee.

[00:33:47] You do?

[00:33:48] Oh yeah, drink a pot a day almost.

[00:33:50] Do you have a favorite brand of coffee?

[00:33:52] Oh God, yeah.

[00:33:54] CS Instant Coffee.

[00:33:55] They're my fave.

[00:33:56] Oh wow.

[00:33:57] Wow.

[00:33:57] That just happens to be like our next segment here is a little advertisement for CS Coffee.

[00:34:03] That's right.

[00:34:04] So CS Instant Coffee.

[00:34:06] Do more.

[00:34:07] Like stay up all night to watch politics.

[00:34:10] Wait less.

[00:34:12] CS Instant Coffee.

[00:34:13] You can find them on the web at CS.

[00:34:16] That's the letter C-S.

[00:34:19] Instant.coffee.

[00:34:20] We're glad to have them as our sponsors.

[00:34:23] Amping us up all the time.

[00:34:25] With some good Java.

[00:34:28] Yes, Stomp.

[00:34:29] And now, actually this is, you continue on.

[00:34:33] So on the script here it says we're going to talk about stickers.

[00:34:35] You know, you can get them at Ski Fanatics in Campton.

[00:34:40] Right off at 93 at Exit 28.

[00:34:43] Also down at good old Spinner's Pizza Parler in Andova.

[00:34:50] Andova, Mass.

[00:34:51] Off of Dascom Road.

[00:34:53] Say hi to Dolls and Pops.

[00:34:57] The swag's flying off the shelves.

[00:34:59] People are hitting the bonfire shop.

[00:35:01] Grabbing a bunch of the hoodies.

[00:35:03] I put a bunch of new colors up there for the t-shirts and the hoodies.

[00:35:07] So go check it out.

[00:35:08] You might see some new things that you love.

[00:35:11] And this week we also have some coffee donations.

[00:35:15] A good way to support the podcast is to go to our Buy Me a Coffee website.

[00:35:22] And that link can be found in the show notes or on our Instagram.

[00:35:27] And this week we have a prior guest who made a donation to us.

[00:35:31] And this is from G's Louise, our good friend Amy, who donated three coffees this week.

[00:35:37] So Amy, thank you very much.

[00:35:38] And if you have not seen her videos, they're really, really cool and unique.

[00:35:45] She's the one that's out there hula hooping the whites.

[00:35:48] So her videos are really slick.

[00:35:51] So thank you again, Amy.

[00:35:52] Appreciate it.

[00:35:55] And I don't know.

[00:35:56] This weekend may not be the weekend for back sweat.

[00:35:59] But if you do have back sweat, do you, Mike?

[00:36:02] I do.

[00:36:03] I do.

[00:36:03] And I used the Volkluse on Franconia.

[00:36:08] And it was like a five-degree wind chill this weekend.

[00:36:10] So yeah, I used it.

[00:36:12] Oh, tell us a little more about that.

[00:36:14] Not the hike, but the...

[00:36:17] Was it just keeping you dry or what?

[00:36:19] Yeah, yeah.

[00:36:19] It was fine.

[00:36:20] It was...

[00:36:21] Yeah, I was working up a little bit of a sweat coming up old bridle.

[00:36:25] And by the time I got up to Greenleaf, the wind was whipping up.

[00:36:28] And my back stayed nice and dry.

[00:36:31] That's great.

[00:36:32] Yeah, they're really cool.

[00:36:33] That's a great piece of gear.

[00:36:34] So what we're talking about is the Volkluse Gear Ultralight Backpack Ventilation Frame.

[00:36:39] If your back sweats quite a bit, this is a great way to eliminate that problem or at least mitigate it.

[00:36:47] As you know, sweat can be a serious risk factor in both hot and cold climates.

[00:36:51] As your clothes get wet, your core temperature can dramatically fluctuate, resulting in hypothermia, heat exhaustion, and dehydration.

[00:36:59] And clearly, it's just very uncomfortable, obviously.

[00:37:02] So today's your lucky day here at Slasher.

[00:37:04] We've got good news for you.

[00:37:06] This piece of gear solves that ventilation and sweat problem and making your back and your backpack more comfortable.

[00:37:14] Volkluse Gear's Ultralight Backpack Ventilation Frame.

[00:37:17] This Ultralight Frame is a backpack accessory that easily installs in your favorite pack, size 15 liters to 45 liters,

[00:37:26] and creates a ventilating airflow gap between you and your pack.

[00:37:29] It's Ultralight, weighing about 3 ounces.

[00:37:32] It's about a pair of wool socks.

[00:37:34] So whether you're hiking in hot or cold temps, the Ultralight Backpack Ventilation Frame from Volkluse is a real game changer.

[00:37:43] Tried and true for sure.

[00:37:44] A bunch of listeners use them regarding airflow and ventilation.

[00:37:48] So visit them at Volkluse Gear, that's V-A-U-C-L-U-S-E gear.com to order a frame today.

[00:37:56] And enjoy a $5 discount when you use the code Slasher, S-L-A-S-R.

[00:38:02] And next week, November 16th, at Reckless, we will be raffling off some of these frames for the benefit,

[00:38:10] the full conditions show that's coming up.

[00:38:14] So there you have it.

[00:38:16] Thank you, Volkluse.

[00:38:17] Very good.

[00:38:18] Thank you, Volkluse.

[00:38:24] Hey, hold my beer.

[00:38:26] It's time to find out what Mike and Stomp are drinking.

[00:38:30] On this week's Beer Talk.

[00:38:39] So Stomp, this is the part of the show where we talk about what beer we are drinking.

[00:38:42] Oh my God.

[00:38:43] Well, it's my birthday on Saturday.

[00:38:47] Do you have a box back there?

[00:38:48] I got to show you this.

[00:38:49] This is the craziest thing ever.

[00:38:50] This is from...

[00:38:52] See that giant box?

[00:38:54] It's a giant box of something.

[00:38:57] Looks like a giant box of animal crackers.

[00:39:00] That's what I said too.

[00:39:01] So Grandma and Grandpa Stomp got me an early birthday gift, and it's 24 traditional German beers.

[00:39:09] Oh, okay.

[00:39:10] All right?

[00:39:10] So it's the Beer Garden Collection, and they've done this since 1605.

[00:39:16] So I think we're going to start a German beer odyssey for the next 24 episodes.

[00:39:23] Is she going to be drinking some Pilsners?

[00:39:25] Well, look at it.

[00:39:27] Let's see.

[00:39:28] Wow, it's in German too.

[00:39:29] It's so crazy.

[00:39:30] So the first one here is Urlebaca, which is a golden sun-kissed color with subtle floral hoppy aroma.

[00:39:39] So I'm going to pop that one out and give it a shot.

[00:39:43] How cool is that?

[00:39:45] If I can get it out of the box.

[00:39:46] Are they cans or bottles or what are they?

[00:39:48] Yeah, they're cans.

[00:39:49] Stomp's like opening.

[00:39:50] He's got this box, and it's like an old school beer carton.

[00:39:54] Look at that.

[00:39:55] You see all those beers?

[00:39:56] Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:57] You're getting jealous, huh?

[00:39:58] So here's the first one.

[00:39:59] Oh, so it's a can.

[00:40:01] It's not a bottle.

[00:40:02] Yes, it's a can.

[00:40:03] Oh, and it's like...

[00:40:04] So it's Volbier Hell, 4.9%, and yeah, give it a shot.

[00:40:11] See what it is.

[00:40:11] Yeah, I noticed in Europe all the beers were like 3%, 4%.

[00:40:16] There was no double IPAs with like 6%, 7%.

[00:40:23] How was it?

[00:40:24] Oh, yeah.

[00:40:24] That's absolutely fantastic.

[00:40:26] Really nice taste.

[00:40:26] And it's warm, too, so I'm going to do it the traditional German way.

[00:40:30] Is that traditional in Germany?

[00:40:31] You drink your beer without it being in the refrigerator?

[00:40:34] For the most part, yeah.

[00:40:37] I don't like that.

[00:40:38] In Hamburg, I mean, they would just have it warm.

[00:40:41] Yeah, I don't like that.

[00:40:42] It takes a bit to get used to it, but...

[00:40:44] Yeah.

[00:40:44] I think the last time I drank a warm beer stomp was when I stole...

[00:40:50] I used to steal...

[00:40:51] We used to steal my father's blue labels or blue ribbon beer, and we would like take them

[00:41:00] cans, and we would hide them in the woods when we were 12, 13.

[00:41:05] Oh, yeah.

[00:41:06] And then we would sneak back, and we would drink the beer, and it would be nice and warm

[00:41:11] in the summer.

[00:41:12] It was disgusting.

[00:41:13] But it did the trick.

[00:41:14] Yeah, it did.

[00:41:16] Yeah, it sure did.

[00:41:17] It did.

[00:41:18] So, thanks for the gift, Grandma and Grandpa Stomp.

[00:41:21] Much appreciated.

[00:41:23] That should keep me busy for the next several months.

[00:41:27] Yep.

[00:41:28] What'd you get?

[00:41:29] I've got a Zero Gravity Conehead IPA, which is a 5.7% alcohol drink that Mrs. Mike got

[00:41:37] from Trader Joe's.

[00:41:39] Oh.

[00:41:40] She likes to get me beer at Trader Joe's.

[00:41:42] Trader Joe's in what?

[00:41:44] Newburyport?

[00:41:44] Newburyport?

[00:41:47] No, it's on 114.

[00:41:48] I think it's in Danvers.

[00:41:50] Oh, got it.

[00:41:50] Got it.

[00:41:51] Okay.

[00:41:52] Cool.

[00:41:52] She likes to go to the hipster.

[00:41:54] I went there once, and I got anxiety.

[00:41:55] It was so crowded.

[00:41:56] I said, I'm never going back here again.

[00:41:58] Yeah.

[00:41:59] Yeah.

[00:42:00] Wow.

[00:42:05] I knew we should have gone left back there.

[00:42:07] Stomp.

[00:42:08] Don't worry.

[00:42:08] I know it's this way.

[00:42:10] I've got a feeling in my gut.

[00:42:12] Are you sure you're not about to have a bowel emergency?

[00:42:14] See?

[00:42:15] Ah, totally.

[00:42:16] We got this.

[00:42:17] But I just blew out my hip.

[00:42:19] Fell down that gully with my 40-year-old micro spikes.

[00:42:22] Suck it up, Stomp.

[00:42:24] It's 4 p.m.

[00:42:24] We're at 3,500 feet.

[00:42:26] We got nine miles back to the parking lot.

[00:42:29] Your leg may be broken.

[00:42:30] We got no cell connection, and we can't feel our fingers.

[00:42:33] But we're finishing all of my list tonight.

[00:42:36] By the way, I need some water.

[00:42:37] I'm empty.

[00:42:38] I would if I could see what I'm doing, but my headlamp batteries are dead.

[00:42:42] You've got to be kidding me.

[00:42:43] What a chump.

[00:42:44] This is the last time I hike with you.

[00:42:46] Ha.

[00:42:47] Whatever, mister.

[00:42:48] Do you know me?

[00:42:49] I have a podcast.

[00:42:51] Whatever.

[00:42:55] Let's find out what Mike and Stomp have been hiking.

[00:42:59] All right, Stomp.

[00:43:00] Now is the part of the show where we do recent hikes.

[00:43:03] So this is a hiking podcast.

[00:43:05] So I'm doing my job.

[00:43:08] I don't think Stomp's doing his.

[00:43:09] Have you gone anywhere?

[00:43:11] No, I've been sort of tied up with life.

[00:43:14] Yeah.

[00:43:17] Listeners may remember Nick, previously known as Nick Hikes and Plays Guitar, came up over

[00:43:24] the weekend, a couple weekends back.

[00:43:26] And we finally pushed that song we've been working on together to about maybe 90% done.

[00:43:33] So we're almost done, which is really exciting.

[00:43:36] So I've been doing other things and wrapping up the kayak season.

[00:43:40] Oh, got it.

[00:43:42] Yeah.

[00:43:42] Yeah.

[00:43:42] I heard.

[00:43:43] As a matter of fact, I was listening to Nick's podcast and he dropped a teaser about your collaboration.

[00:43:50] Well, what kind of teaser?

[00:43:51] He just said that he may or may not have been in the Woodpecker studio collaborating on some

[00:43:57] new music.

[00:43:58] Yeah, yeah.

[00:43:58] We had a great time.

[00:43:59] It was really funny too because he brought his guitars and his amplifiers.

[00:44:04] And the way we set it up, we put the amplifiers in the master bedroom, shut all the doors and

[00:44:09] cranked it to 11.

[00:44:11] And we were in the studio and listening through the monitors and we had a lot of fun just recording

[00:44:17] a bunch of stuff.

[00:44:18] And I'm in the process of editing those tracks and piecing them all together.

[00:44:21] He's a great player.

[00:44:22] Oh, yeah.

[00:44:23] Great player.

[00:44:23] He's fantastic.

[00:44:25] Yeah.

[00:44:26] So I got nothing.

[00:44:27] Sorry.

[00:44:28] All right.

[00:44:28] Well, unlike you, I did my job and I got out on Sunday.

[00:44:34] I decided to, I was sick of being social on the trail.

[00:44:38] So I decided I was going to go do a solo hike and the weather was looking good as far

[00:44:44] as clear skies.

[00:44:44] So I decided to go to Franconia Ridge and hike the loop.

[00:44:51] That's unlike you.

[00:44:52] You don't typically do solo hikes.

[00:44:55] Well, I did for a long time, but it seems like I've had, I got a little crew of people

[00:45:00] that I can get out with.

[00:45:01] So I just decided I was going to go solo this time.

[00:45:05] So I also wanted to check out the trail work that had been done.

[00:45:09] And typically when I do Franconia Ridge, I go up Old Bridal and then down Falling Waters.

[00:45:15] It can be a little sketchy going down Falling Waters, but the reason I prefer to go in that

[00:45:19] direction is because you'll typically, especially early in the morning, you'll typically have

[00:45:24] the entire hike to yourself, at least until you get up past like Lincoln and, um, and you

[00:45:31] get towards like little haystack.

[00:45:33] Then people start, you'll start seeing the crowds.

[00:45:35] But, um, my theory on that actually played out perfectly because I didn't see it.

[00:45:41] I saw one guy coming down Old Bridal.

[00:45:43] He must've been up there for sunset or sunrise, but, um, I didn't see a single person, but

[00:45:48] I was impressed with the, with the trail work that they've done.

[00:45:51] They've rerouted Old Bridal and then they've set up a number of, first of all, they brushed

[00:45:56] out the trail.

[00:45:57] So it's like flat.

[00:45:59] Oh yeah.

[00:46:00] Nice, smooth.

[00:46:00] It sort of feels like.

[00:46:02] Yeah.

[00:46:02] It's like a highway.

[00:46:03] It's very nice.

[00:46:04] Um, and then they have built out these like rock stairwells or stairways that go up.

[00:46:11] And, uh, I was like, oh, this is going to be like maybe the first, you know, half a mile

[00:46:15] or so.

[00:46:16] And then it'll go back to the same rugged setup.

[00:46:20] And that's not the case at all.

[00:46:21] They, they go almost right, right below the agonies on Old Bridal.

[00:46:26] They built up the trail.

[00:46:27] There's a couple of spots that they got to get worked on.

[00:46:29] And there's like one section that's, that's basically eroded and that they've got to work

[00:46:34] on, but they've got a, uh, up until the, the, yeah, right below the agonies, but they've

[00:46:42] got like stairways that they've created and it's really impressive.

[00:46:47] I thought it was great.

[00:46:48] And you could see where they've like blocked off the old route and redirected it.

[00:46:52] So they've, they've, they've got a couple of spots where revegetation is happening, which

[00:46:55] is nice.

[00:46:56] I can't, yeah, I'm still shocked.

[00:46:58] It was so under the radar.

[00:46:59] I had no idea.

[00:47:01] It's a lot of work.

[00:47:03] It goes, yeah, I mean, below the, the hairpin.

[00:47:06] Yes.

[00:47:07] Uh, a lot of work and a lot of work coming too.

[00:47:10] Yeah, exactly.

[00:47:12] And they, um, up on top on the actual ridge, when you get above tree line, they've got a

[00:47:18] lot of new, um, roped off areas.

[00:47:21] Um, there's one section.

[00:47:22] So basically like I did the lower section and then you get below the agonies, the hairpin

[00:47:27] turned that area.

[00:47:29] Um, and then, you know, a lot of nice views.

[00:47:33] I forgot my sunglasses, which I was regretting, but I got some nice views of Canon.

[00:47:37] And then, uh, I got to the hut and the sun was out and it was like, it was cold, but the

[00:47:42] sun warmed me up and I sat there for like a half hour and had, you know, had breakfast,

[00:47:48] hung out, uh, took some pictures and then, uh, got all settled.

[00:47:53] And then I had to put on my wind break or my, my shell just to head out to the above tree

[00:48:01] line.

[00:48:01] And then when you get in those little trees before that little pond that's below green

[00:48:06] leaf, uh, there was some ice there.

[00:48:08] So that was a little bit slick, but there was nothing that you could use micro spikes

[00:48:12] on.

[00:48:13] You just had to kind of walk slowly.

[00:48:14] I did wear my boots.

[00:48:16] I was originally going to wear trail runners and then I saw the windshield was going to

[00:48:20] be like five degrees.

[00:48:22] And I was like, I'm just going to play it safe and wear my boots, keep my feet a little bit

[00:48:26] warmer.

[00:48:27] Cause I didn't, what I didn't want to do was get so cold that I had to turn around cause

[00:48:30] that would have bummed me out.

[00:48:32] Right.

[00:48:33] What made you decide to break the rules and go counterclockwise or clockwise that is?

[00:48:38] Well, because like I said, I, I prefer to go that way because it avoids crowds.

[00:48:44] And you usually don't see anybody until after you, especially if you leave in the morning,

[00:48:48] everyone's teeing up and they're heading up falling waters.

[00:48:51] And then I went the other way.

[00:48:53] So I just didn't see anybody.

[00:48:54] So that was the number one.

[00:48:56] And then falling waters doesn't bother you.

[00:48:58] Yeah.

[00:48:59] Going down doesn't bother me.

[00:49:00] And then I also have a slight preference for hiking towards Liberty and flume and that,

[00:49:05] that view versus the other, other direction.

[00:49:07] I feel like that heading towards Liberty and flume and haystack is, is a nicer view.

[00:49:15] Got it.

[00:49:17] Just a little spur here.

[00:49:18] Did you happen to see Nobby's video about his Franconia Ridge Osseo to Greenleaf trip?

[00:49:26] I haven't watched it yet.

[00:49:27] I know I do want to watch it cause he said he had some black bear issues at the, at the

[00:49:31] campsite and I do need to check it out.

[00:49:33] Liberty Springs campsite.

[00:49:34] It's worth watching.

[00:49:35] I didn't post it on the website, but yeah, some beers.

[00:49:38] I guess there's a lot of beer activity there now at Liberty Springs.

[00:49:41] So just beware.

[00:49:42] Well, I asked, um, there was an AMC group that was coming over.

[00:49:46] They were coming over a little haystack when I got up there and I was like, oh, do you guys

[00:49:50] camp out at Liberty?

[00:49:51] And they said they did.

[00:49:52] They were there Saturday night.

[00:49:54] And then I ran into them on Sunday.

[00:49:55] They said that I was asking them if there was any beer activity.

[00:49:59] They had said that they had heard there was, but that they didn't see or hear anything when

[00:50:03] they were there on, on Saturday night.

[00:50:05] So I think Nobby had issues on Friday night.

[00:50:09] Hmm.

[00:50:10] Interesting.

[00:50:11] Yeah.

[00:50:11] Yeah.

[00:50:12] Uh, from what I understand is it was probably a couple, a couple beer, but good video.

[00:50:18] Fattening up before the fall.

[00:50:19] Um, but yeah, like I said, the, the hike, I wore my boots.

[00:50:24] There was no, really no ice.

[00:50:25] I did notice coming up Greenleaf.

[00:50:27] They've, they've, um, roped off a couple of areas to allow vegetation to grow back.

[00:50:33] Um, like one area that like people go to and just hang out like it's a view spot.

[00:50:38] They've got that roped off.

[00:50:39] But the second one you can still get out to and enjoy the view there.

[00:50:44] Um, and then yeah, going along the ridge, I didn't see anybody until I got over to like,

[00:50:50] um, just below Lincoln.

[00:50:51] But what I noticed is that they have, they had these stanchions along the whole trail and

[00:50:57] then they've got rope set up and they look a little fragile.

[00:51:02] I don't know how well they're going to hold up over the winter, but I mean, they, they

[00:51:05] had them rope down, they had them tied down pretty good to rock.

[00:51:07] So it should hold up, but the stanchions are just, they're, they're those flimsy ones.

[00:51:12] They're not metal.

[00:51:13] Right.

[00:51:14] Right.

[00:51:14] Right.

[00:51:14] So they're doing work up there too.

[00:51:17] What's that?

[00:51:18] They're doing work up there too with all that stuff.

[00:51:20] Oh yeah.

[00:51:21] Just to keep people on trail off the, you know, vegetation.

[00:51:24] They've narrowed the trail.

[00:51:25] Exactly.

[00:51:26] Like they, they've made it very obvious where you should be going with those stanchions

[00:51:30] and the ropes to fall.

[00:51:31] Yeah.

[00:51:31] Which is cool.

[00:51:32] Right.

[00:51:33] So the one thing that I was at, I paused a little bit is that they do have the stanchions

[00:51:38] and ropes set up at the point where I would normally go off trail to connect to the Lincoln

[00:51:45] slide right below.

[00:51:47] There's a sub peak before you get to Lincoln and that's where you get off and then connect

[00:51:53] with the Lincoln slide.

[00:51:54] So there's like, there it's roped off a little bit.

[00:51:57] So that's something that people have to make a ethical decision on whether they can jump

[00:52:02] rock to rock or something like that.

[00:52:05] Hmm.

[00:52:06] Yep.

[00:52:07] So anyway, but it was good.

[00:52:09] I had, I, I, once I started getting down to below tree line, I, I did run into a, I ran

[00:52:22] into a group of people right by shining rock and, um, I actually got mixed up on my location

[00:52:31] for a second and I, I got a little bit confused.

[00:52:38] Hold on a sec.

[00:52:38] Stomp.

[00:52:39] I'm scrolling through my, I want to get the names correct here.

[00:52:45] Oh my God.

[00:52:46] We had so many like texts this week.

[00:52:48] Stomp.

[00:52:50] It was a busy week.

[00:52:52] It was.

[00:52:53] We were, um.

[00:52:55] High drama.

[00:52:56] Yeah.

[00:52:56] We were covering the, oh yeah, here we go.

[00:52:59] So I had some notes on this.

[00:53:01] So first of all, like I got to shining rock and then I turned around, I had my patch in

[00:53:04] the back.

[00:53:05] So one of the guys that was standing there was like, oh, do you like that podcast?

[00:53:09] I said, oh yeah, I do.

[00:53:10] And I said, and he's like, yeah, we, we were just listening to it on the way, um, way up

[00:53:17] to hike.

[00:53:17] And I was like, oh, do you have a favorite co-host?

[00:53:19] And then he looked at me and he's like, oh my God, are you one of the co-hosts?

[00:53:22] I said, yeah, I'm like.

[00:53:23] Like, so they were very nice.

[00:53:25] Patrick and Emily from Maryland.

[00:53:26] So shout out to you guys.

[00:53:28] They were, um, heading up falling waters and you know, they were, I guess they're from

[00:53:32] the area, but they moved down to Maryland and they're thinking about moving back up.

[00:53:36] So it was nice to meet them.

[00:53:37] So small world.

[00:53:40] Yeah.

[00:53:40] That's cool.

[00:53:41] Yeah.

[00:53:41] Which was, which was fun.

[00:53:43] And then the other thing is, so I, I passed them at shining rock and then I started heading

[00:53:47] down and it got a little tricky and I got to like that first section that's above the, um,

[00:53:55] the cloud and falls.

[00:53:56] Like it's a little bit above it.

[00:53:58] Um, and I just blew the, yeah, I ran into this.

[00:54:02] It's the first water crossing.

[00:54:03] Yeah.

[00:54:03] And I ran into this guy and he was like big dude.

[00:54:07] He had like the Randy macho man sunglasses on and uses a Harley Davidson black sweatshirt.

[00:54:12] And I was like, Oh boy.

[00:54:13] And he's like, um, are you Mike?

[00:54:17] No, no, no.

[00:54:18] He was, he said, is, is this the way back to the parking lot?

[00:54:25] And he was going up.

[00:54:27] He was heading up.

[00:54:28] And I said, I said, well, you can get to the parking lot, but it's a loop.

[00:54:31] And he's like, yeah, we want to get back to the parking lot, but we don't want to go

[00:54:34] the same way that we came.

[00:54:35] You should have just said yes.

[00:54:38] I could have said, I could have just said, yeah, it's right there.

[00:54:40] Keep going.

[00:54:41] Um, but I said to him, I said, look, it's, it's, it's a bit of a ways.

[00:54:47] I'm like, it's a long hike.

[00:54:49] And he's like, um, how far is it?

[00:54:51] And I speak in terms of like elevation.

[00:54:54] So I had told them, I think we were at 2,700 feet of elevation.

[00:55:00] So I said, I think you're, we're at 2,700 feet of elevation.

[00:55:03] I said to get to little haystack, I'm assuming little haystack is like 4,400 feet of elevation.

[00:55:09] So you're talking, you know, another, you know, another, whatever, 1800 feet of gain or something

[00:55:18] like that.

[00:55:18] And I said, you've gone, you started at 1800.

[00:55:20] You're at 2,700.

[00:55:21] You got 900 feet of gain.

[00:55:23] And you're about a mile and a half.

[00:55:24] I said, you got to go another seven miles.

[00:55:28] And I said, there's three mountains.

[00:55:29] And he's looking at me, his mouth is like dropped.

[00:55:32] He's like three mountains.

[00:55:35] And I said, yeah, it's seven miles.

[00:55:37] And he's like, how long did that take you to do?

[00:55:39] And I said, well, I'm about four miles, four hours in.

[00:55:42] And I said, I've done it a few times.

[00:55:44] So I move, move pretty well.

[00:55:47] And his wife and son were like coming up behind him.

[00:55:50] And then by that time he's steaming.

[00:55:52] And I told him, I said, my advice would be to just go back the way you came.

[00:55:56] And he's like, we can't go back that way.

[00:55:58] It's too icy.

[00:55:59] And then he starts yelling at his wife.

[00:56:01] And he's like, it's never again am I doing this.

[00:56:04] I can't believe this.

[00:56:05] This is, he's swearing his head off.

[00:56:08] And I don't know what came over me, but I said, you know, Mount Pemigalasset's pretty nice.

[00:56:14] I was like, that's a good one to go to in the future.

[00:56:17] There's still time.

[00:56:18] I was like, that's a good one to go to.

[00:56:20] But then I said, yeah, I said, my advice would be you're going to be much better off going down.

[00:56:25] I'm like, just take it slow.

[00:56:26] And I said, look for trees to hold on to.

[00:56:28] And then going down, it was like it was super slick in that one section where you got to go along this like rock cave kind of.

[00:56:37] And then I ran into another couple and that guy asked me the same thing.

[00:56:41] He's like, well, how long is it to get up top?

[00:56:43] And I said, you know, it's another 1800 or 2000 feet.

[00:56:49] So it's basically like what you've done, do that two more times.

[00:56:53] And that's when you'll get up to a little haystack.

[00:56:55] And then if you want to go around the whole loop, it's going to be, you know, by that time, it was probably noontime or something.

[00:57:00] I don't know what time it was.

[00:57:02] So he immediately was like, all right, we're just going to turn back.

[00:57:05] So him and his wife, I passed them.

[00:57:08] And then I started thinking about it.

[00:57:10] I'm like, there's five people up there and it's very icy and none of them know what they're doing.

[00:57:15] So I just decided to hang out at Cloudland Falls and just watch the show.

[00:57:20] Were you packing spikes?

[00:57:22] No, nothing.

[00:57:23] I just, you know, you just had to kind of go slow.

[00:57:26] Spikes wouldn't have done anything because it was literally just like a layer of water over the rocks.

[00:57:32] And you couldn't, it wouldn't have helped.

[00:57:35] Yeah.

[00:57:36] Interesting.

[00:57:36] I don't think we're covering it this week for time, but there was that tri-pyramid situation where somebody tried to come down north.

[00:57:43] We covered that last week, I think.

[00:57:44] We did, yeah.

[00:57:45] Yeah.

[00:57:45] Yeah.

[00:57:46] So light trace snow coming down wet slabs.

[00:57:49] It's just the worst combination.

[00:57:50] Yeah.

[00:57:51] And it's a tricky time of the year because like I said, you can't use spikes.

[00:57:55] So you really have to use your footing and, um, and, and also use any branches or trees or your hiking poles, whatever you had.

[00:58:03] None of these people had hiking poles.

[00:58:04] So, um, but anyway, I think they were generally okay.

[00:58:08] I just hung out at Cloudland Falls and just waited for them to get down.

[00:58:11] So the couple came down and I just was like, oh, how are you doing?

[00:58:16] And then, um, he even said to me, he's like, oh, there's three people up there that are, it looks like they're having a hard time.

[00:58:22] And I just hung out and waited.

[00:58:24] And then I saw the three, the, the Harley guy and his wife and kid, and they made it to the top of Cloudland Falls.

[00:58:31] And then at that point I was like, are they going to be, they'll be okay.

[00:58:34] And then I took off, but it just, it was a good reminder.

[00:58:36] That's, that's what you get in that area.

[00:58:38] And I don't know what they're doing to reroute to, to get people away from the crossing and recrossing that, that drainage.

[00:58:47] Well, there is a website up there.

[00:58:49] They're, they're doing recon on that now, uh, with the idea being that you'll be able to take spurs out to those view vantage points and then go back to the trail.

[00:58:59] But it's much needed.

[00:59:02] That's such a dangerous area.

[00:59:04] Yeah.

[00:59:04] I think what they need to do is to eliminate the, um, the access to when you're facing Cloudland Falls, like that whole section where you go to the left of the falls and then cut over and across.

[00:59:15] They get to eliminate access to that whole area.

[00:59:18] And that's where I think is where all the injuries happen.

[00:59:21] We've talked about it before, but when you're coming down, it's the first water crossing.

[00:59:27] 20 feet after that first crossing is where so many people have slipped and fall and, uh, high velocity slip and falls like 10, 15 feet with spinal injuries.

[00:59:38] Um, less common going up, but without doubt, very common coming down at that one particular location.

[00:59:48] It's a nightmare.

[00:59:49] Yeah.

[00:59:50] Yeah.

[00:59:50] And I think what happens, I bet you what happens a lot, stop is people think like, all right, I'm going to go up and do the whole thing and loop around.

[00:59:58] And then they get up past that, the, the, the area you're talking about.

[01:00:02] And maybe they keep hiking for a while and then they realize like, oh crap, I'm in over my head.

[01:00:06] Maybe they get to shining rock and they see the mileage signs and they just turn it.

[01:00:11] Then that's when they turn around and they're already pissed.

[01:00:13] They're rushing because they've messed up their timing and then they're, they go down.

[01:00:18] Right.

[01:00:18] Right.

[01:00:19] Yeah.

[01:00:19] That's tough.

[01:00:20] That's tough.

[01:00:21] Yep.

[01:00:22] Yeah.

[01:00:23] So you know what else is tough?

[01:00:25] Stop.

[01:00:26] What's that?

[01:00:27] The people that send in their notable hikes.

[01:00:29] Those are the tough people.

[01:00:32] Yeah, they sure are.

[01:00:34] If you're interested in tagging slasher on your adventure for the notable hike of the week, do so.

[01:00:42] And we will see if we can get you on.

[01:00:44] And, uh, no guarantees.

[01:00:46] Some, some weeks are busier than others, but this is a fairly reasonable list.

[01:00:50] Right, Mike?

[01:00:52] We have first off Liz Fay, who bushwhacked Mount Bemis, uh, for number 97 out of 104.

[01:01:05] Nick in nature, hiked Cannon for the fall.

[01:01:09] I believe that was, uh, the morning before he came over and banged out some epic rock tracks.

[01:01:17] Ginger Beard Keen.

[01:01:19] Let's see.

[01:01:22] Leanne bagged three and four out of the New Hampshire 48 on the Osceola.

[01:01:27] So, yeah.

[01:01:29] Okay.

[01:01:29] So Ginger Beard Keen and Leanne.

[01:01:33] Mountain Mike.

[01:01:37] Let's see.

[01:01:38] Oh, Mountain Mike did Mount Straight Back, Straight Back, and then Mount Major.

[01:01:42] So these are some of the, uh, what range is that?

[01:01:48] That's the Bell Naps.

[01:01:49] The Bell Naps.

[01:01:50] Okay.

[01:01:51] I've not, I'm not familiar with those names, Straight Back.

[01:01:54] So they must be closer to the, uh, the eastern side of the traverse?

[01:01:59] Yeah.

[01:02:00] So Straight Back is the one that, um, so you, you hike Mount Major, and then if you continue

[01:02:05] on, Straight Back is the next one.

[01:02:09] Got it.

[01:02:10] Uh, let's see.

[01:02:11] Bike Camp Hike Girl, uh, hiked South Moat.

[01:02:16] And then we have Run Cass Run, who hiked up Mount Moriah for 32 out of the New Hampshire

[01:02:22] 48.

[01:02:24] Uh, Tom Segur, or Tim Segur, excuse me.

[01:02:27] I need my readers on.

[01:02:29] Oh yeah, Tim.

[01:02:30] Tim Segur did a tilted compass.

[01:02:35] And, uh, I honestly don't know what that is.

[01:02:40] I can explain.

[01:02:41] I can explain.

[01:02:42] Yeah, go for it.

[01:02:42] So what a tilted compass is, is it is the, um, farthest summit on, so if you take the 4,000

[01:02:55] footers and you put them on a compass, um, it's the four New Hampshire 4,000 footers at

[01:03:04] the farthest points of the compass within a 24 hour period.

[01:03:09] So it's arbitrary.

[01:03:10] You can, you can drop it on a map and see what, where those four points hit?

[01:03:15] Well, it's, what it is, is the, um, so the farthest northern summit, then the farthest,

[01:03:22] um, western summit.

[01:03:25] So farthest northern is Cabot, and then the farthest western is Musalak.

[01:03:30] The farthest eastern is, I think Mount Moriah.

[01:03:36] And then the most southerly is Whiteface.

[01:03:39] So there, what they did is they did all four of those in a 24 hour period.

[01:03:48] So they started at 1 a.m.

[01:03:50] Um, at Cabot Mountain, and then they went over to Mount Moriah.

[01:03:56] So I'm assuming they're driving in between these.

[01:04:00] And it looks like, so Tim did this with, um, Chase Hall, Carrie Burrell, and then Chris.

[01:04:11] So it looks like some of them had to turn back.

[01:04:14] And eventually Chris and Tim kept going.

[01:04:19] And, um, then they went over to Musalak with Carrie joining them.

[01:04:27] And then, uh, they went over and did their final summit from Mount Whiteface.

[01:04:31] So, geez, Tim, when I saw Tim on Mount Adams, I think he was early in his hike.

[01:04:35] He's turning into an absolute animal at this point.

[01:04:37] So, it's very impressive.

[01:04:41] So, yeah, yeah, no doubt they get the notable hike of the week for that.

[01:04:45] That's impressive.

[01:04:45] So, congratulations to Tim and crew.

[01:04:48] Yeah.

[01:04:48] And then I'll give Leanne, just because Mike, Mike Keen's, uh, friend Leanne bagged number

[01:04:54] three and four of the New Hampshire 48s on Osceola.

[01:04:57] So, I will give her an honorable mention to just keep her motivated so that she can hear

[01:05:04] her name on the podcast and hopefully finish her 4,000 footers in the next year or two.

[01:05:09] Yeah.

[01:05:10] Nice work.

[01:05:11] Yes.

[01:05:11] And there was much rejoicing.

[01:05:13] And there was much rejoicing.

[01:05:18] Yay!

[01:05:18] Yay!

[01:05:19] So, speaking of rejoicing stomp, I had a chance to sit down with Katie, um, Houston, who goes

[01:05:25] by the trail name of Oates.

[01:05:27] And she's the community manager at Sawyer.

[01:05:30] So, um, we'll talk a little bit with her about some of her backpacking adventures and

[01:05:37] some details about Western North Carolina.

[01:05:39] And then some of the products that Sawyer offers and, uh, the water filtration strategy

[01:05:44] that she likes to use, I like to use.

[01:05:46] So, it was a fun conversation.

[01:05:47] She's an awesome person.

[01:05:48] And I think that the listeners will really enjoy this.

[01:05:51] So, why don't we go into that segment now?

[01:05:54] Let's go.

[01:05:56] Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do.

[01:06:15] It's time for Slasher's Guest of the Week.

[01:06:19] Very cool.

[01:06:20] Very cool.

[01:06:30] All right.

[01:06:31] So, welcome, Katie.

[01:06:32] Anything you say is now, um, official transcript here.

[01:06:36] So, you ready to go?

[01:06:37] I'm ready.

[01:06:38] All right.

[01:06:39] I know you've done a bunch of podcasts, or some podcasts, um, but, you know, you really,

[01:06:43] like, um, got to the bottom of the barrel in hiking podcasts with us.

[01:06:47] So, congratulations.

[01:06:48] Hey, I'm stoked.

[01:06:49] I've never, I haven't been on a search and rescue podcast before, and that is a very interesting

[01:06:54] field to be in.

[01:06:55] I'm actually really curious, uh, if you have updates for me on the hurricane.

[01:07:00] Yeah.

[01:07:00] Yeah.

[01:07:01] I will.

[01:07:01] Um, you know, we're based out of the Northeast, so there's not, you know, we don't, we don't,

[01:07:06] we don't have a lot of connections in the, um, North Carolina, but I will say I brought

[01:07:10] this for the listeners.

[01:07:12] I'm flashing my Elon hat because I got, I have two daughters that go to Elon.

[01:07:17] So I get a little bit of connection down there.

[01:07:19] Oh, awesome.

[01:07:20] Congratulations.

[01:07:22] Yeah.

[01:07:22] Or it's actually condolences because it's not cheap to send them.

[01:07:26] Yep.

[01:07:27] Yep.

[01:07:27] I believe that.

[01:07:28] Uh, you're talking to someone who went to college in the town that they grew up in,

[01:07:32] hence UNC Asheville.

[01:07:34] But that was one of the best decisions ever.

[01:07:37] So.

[01:07:37] Beautiful.

[01:07:38] Beautiful.

[01:07:38] So, um, so we're here for listeners.

[01:07:40] We are here with, um, um, Katie Houston.

[01:07:45] So do you, do you use oats as your, is that your, what's, what's the deal with the name?

[01:07:48] I said that I see Katie Oats Houston, but like you got to explain this to me.

[01:07:52] Yeah.

[01:07:53] So, uh, my mom named me Catherine, cause even though she always knew she wanted to call me

[01:07:57] Katie because she thought it would get me further in my professional career.

[01:08:00] Now I professionally go by oats.

[01:08:02] Um, it's, it's my trail name.

[01:08:04] I got it in 2019 on the Appalachian trail.

[01:08:08] And, um, when I first started kind of writing in the industry as a freelancer, my first pieces,

[01:08:14] I established oats hikes LLC because it felt the most authentic and fun.

[01:08:20] And, uh, oats has really stuck with me since.

[01:08:23] Okay.

[01:08:24] That's easy enough.

[01:08:25] Um, and I'm assuming it will, I'll ask you the, the, the origin of that name in a little

[01:08:32] while, but, uh, but that works out.

[01:08:34] So you're currently the community manager at Sawyer.

[01:08:37] So for listeners, I think we've talked about this a bunch, like with the, when we get,

[01:08:40] when we go over gear, um, but Sawyer, I think you're most well known for water filtration,

[01:08:44] but you've got a bunch of other products that we'll talk about as well.

[01:08:47] Um, and Sawyer was founded in the early 1980s and, uh, like they offer, um, products for

[01:08:55] water filtration, sun bugs, injuries.

[01:08:58] So, um, we're excited to learn a little bit about the product offerings.

[01:09:02] And then you've got a really strong background in through hiking and hiking.

[01:09:05] Um, you're down in the North Carolina, Southern Appalachian area.

[01:09:09] So, um, most of our listeners are Northeast White Mountains, New Hampshire.

[01:09:13] Uh, but we always, we always talk about hiking all over the place.

[01:09:17] So, um, with that, why don't you just start it off with introducing yourself, talk a little

[01:09:23] bit about your early life and how you got into outdoor adventures.

[01:09:26] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:09:28] So I'm Oates.

[01:09:29] It's what I prefer to go by now.

[01:09:31] I, um, as a kid, I had a lot of energy and my family was not super outdoorsy.

[01:09:38] We went to Lake Poetin once or twice in car camp.

[01:09:41] But, um, my parents put me in a nonprofit that was aimed at getting kids outdoors that

[01:09:47] didn't have access to it.

[01:09:49] So, uh, I slowly over time accumulated my own gear.

[01:09:54] Like Santa gave me a backpack and a sleeping bag when I was 11.

[01:09:57] And this group, every week we would meet after school at one of the local schools and basically,

[01:10:04] um, learn a skill, uh, whether it's something search and rescue related.

[01:10:09] We actually did interestingly quite a bit with that in first aid and, um, staying calm under

[01:10:14] pressure, those kinds of things, because that's important.

[01:10:16] Um, and then once a month we'd go on an adventure, uh, overnight.

[01:10:21] So my first trip was Sam's Knob in North Carolina.

[01:10:25] Um, I ended up doing a five day, about a hundred mile trip on the Appalachian trail in Virginia

[01:10:33] and ended up doing like a hundred miles on the new river by canoe over one summer.

[01:10:39] So just these really slept in a cave, just these really incredible, um, opportunities that

[01:10:47] I wouldn't have had otherwise.

[01:10:48] And so that kind of planted the seed and then I went to UNS.

[01:10:52] I was born and raised in Asheville, North Carolina, which I, the Southern Appalachians

[01:10:56] will always have my heart.

[01:10:59] Um, and, uh, the, just growing up on the Appalachian trail and the mountains to sea trail is two

[01:11:06] miles from where my dad lives.

[01:11:08] And I've been walking that since I was a kid, I could teetle toddle on logs and, you know, it's

[01:11:14] where we took the family dog for the 16 years we had her.

[01:11:17] So just lots of, um, uh, memory and home kind of in this region for me.

[01:11:23] It's so, so fun to explore.

[01:11:27] Awesome.

[01:11:28] And then you, um, so you, you sort of got experience locally and it sounds like you got into some

[01:11:33] really good programs.

[01:11:34] Eventually though, you decided to get head out on your own and actually do your first through

[01:11:39] hike.

[01:11:39] I did.

[01:11:40] Yeah.

[01:11:41] So I actually have a degree in environmental science, um, geology, mineral processing specifically

[01:11:47] from the university of North Carolina at Asheville.

[01:11:50] And like I mentioned, my kind of life, a life goal of mine was to do the Appalachian trail

[01:11:56] and what better time than after retirement or after college.

[01:11:59] So I had been planning after college and, um, did the trail and realized I needed to pivot

[01:12:07] my entire life to keep doing stuff like that forever.

[01:12:11] Um, cause as much as I love rocks, this was, I got, I got bit by that bug, I would say.

[01:12:17] So, um, I completed the Appalachian trail in 2019.

[01:12:21] I started in February.

[01:12:23] So it was quite cold in Georgia at the time finished in about July at Katahdin.

[01:12:30] Um, yeah, it's, uh, and I actually in January of 2020, the season after I finished, I went to

[01:12:42] a beautiful hostel Woods Hole.

[01:12:45] It's in Virginia.

[01:12:46] If you've heard of it, it has a lot of history and it's really community based.

[01:12:51] I was living there and I was supposed to be there for the entire hiking season, but then COVID hit.

[01:12:57] So everything had to shut down.

[01:12:59] Um, I ended up moving to Texas and worked various, uh, jobs in the rock and mineral industry

[01:13:07] and also, um, just jobs in that I could find, um, like house managing, babysitting, dog walking

[01:13:14] and built up my freelance business during that time.

[01:13:18] Um, so I built up a types and Sawyer was a client of mine before, uh, of Oats Hikes before

[01:13:27] I decided to go full-time with them because six months in, we both realized it was a pretty

[01:13:34] good relationship we had going.

[01:13:37] Yeah.

[01:13:37] Yeah.

[01:13:37] I'm jealous.

[01:13:38] Cause I like the, you know, this podcast stuff is like sort of a side side gig for me,

[01:13:41] but I, I'd love to figure out a way to get like a full-time job in the, uh, you know,

[01:13:48] in a good position there.

[01:13:50] So do you have any perspective?

[01:13:51] So you basically, you got in hiking, you're doing through hiking, you're doing sort of

[01:13:56] your own freelancing.

[01:13:57] I think a lot of people probably have in mind that like, okay, I'm going to apply for a

[01:14:00] job at some outdoor company and they're going to hire me.

[01:14:03] But it's really, it sounds like you had to work a relationship first and, um, over time

[01:14:08] then the opportunities develop.

[01:14:10] So I think that's, I'm an HR recruiting guy myself, so I'm always interested in that.

[01:14:14] But, um, do you have any, you know, for younger people that may be listening that want to get

[01:14:19] into the outdoor industry, do you have any, any additional advice or words of wisdom for

[01:14:24] them?

[01:14:25] Absolutely.

[01:14:25] My number one biggest resource through my entire professional career in the outdoor

[01:14:30] industry has been Basecamp Outdoor Jobs.

[01:14:33] It's a Facebook group, um, for outdoor industry professionals or people looking to pivot the

[01:14:38] industry.

[01:14:39] Um, and that has been an incredible resource, not only of like kind of like, um,

[01:14:44] kind of keeping a finger on the pulse of where the outdoor community at large is at.

[01:14:48] Um, and also getting to see all of the different things that are out there because there is

[01:14:55] just so much out there.

[01:14:57] And also they, I was able to take a freelance specific women's specific 12 week kind of boot

[01:15:07] camp, um, with Justine Melence of just a wild thought coaching collective.

[01:15:12] She also hosts the creatives in the wild podcast, but I was in one of her first, um, big groups

[01:15:18] where we really sat down and talked about values and what we wanted to be doing, the services

[01:15:24] we wanted to be offering.

[01:15:25] And I feel like I really got my feet underneath me, um, with taking advantage of those resources

[01:15:32] and they continue to be, um, I continue to check them all the time just cause I think they're

[01:15:38] valuable.

[01:15:39] Awesome.

[01:15:39] Yeah.

[01:15:40] And I'm familiar with base camp and I can, I can put a link in the show notes for, uh,

[01:15:43] for people that want to check it out for sure.

[01:15:45] Um, so then that's all good advice.

[01:15:47] And then we'll talk a little bit about, um, you know, we'll talk a lot about Sawyer and

[01:15:52] also your role as the community manager there.

[01:15:54] But before we get into that, I wanted to just cover a couple of questions for you.

[01:15:58] So it's like, it's that time of the year where I think a lot of the through hikers are

[01:16:02] gearing up with their planning.

[01:16:03] Maybe there's some people that are thinking like, all right, do I want to get out there

[01:16:08] um, for those people that may be listening that are, um, either on the fence about it

[01:16:12] or that they're ready to go?

[01:16:14] What, what is some of the, the words of wisdom that you have for them?

[01:16:18] Um, as far as planning, if they're going to go out on the Appalachian trail?

[01:16:21] Oh, totally.

[01:16:22] Uh, planning like for a through hike specifically or just, okay.

[01:16:27] And it sounds like you had a little bit of experience and I think there's always a mix

[01:16:30] of people that go that don't have a lot of experience versus those that have done some

[01:16:34] hiking.

[01:16:34] But, um, you know, what are your thoughts around like start date?

[01:16:38] Like you started in February.

[01:16:39] That's, that's obviously cold and, um, not ideal for some people if they don't have experience,

[01:16:44] but what do you would, what do you advise people as far as start date and the gear that they

[01:16:48] should bring along?

[01:16:49] Totally.

[01:16:50] So I mentioned Santa gave me my first backpack and my first sleeping bag.

[01:16:54] And 10 years later, that's what I started the AT with.

[01:16:57] I had 32 pounds and chose to start early because I wanted to stay ahead of the bubble.

[01:17:03] I also chose, even though my family and friends incredibly well-meaning, love them dearly,

[01:17:10] got me many like Appalachian trail reference books and like memoirs.

[01:17:15] I very much so wanted to have my own experience.

[01:17:19] And, um, so I didn't read any until I got back, but I'm kind of glad I didn't.

[01:17:25] I wanted to have my own experience and my advice would be to obviously leave no trace, plan ahead

[01:17:34] and prepare and make sure that you're like checking in and doing everything safely, but do things your

[01:17:40] way. If somebody is telling you there's only one way to have a water system and it's the only way

[01:17:46] to do it or hammocking is the only thing that you should be doing or tenting is the only like, uh,

[01:17:53] don't buy into that. Try stuff out, like figure out what you want and what you like and accept that

[01:18:00] because it's going to change. Um, so also kind of allow there to be a little bit of freedom,

[01:18:06] like to pick something up or to try something else. Um, because it's definitely going to evolve.

[01:18:13] Your kid is certainly going to change. So embracing that early will hopefully, um, save you some pain

[01:18:19] down the road. Yeah. And then can you talk a little bit about, um, when you got on trail,

[01:18:25] was there any ever, ever any doubts? Obviously you go through, you know, some pain and injuries

[01:18:30] and discomfort and you get your, your hiking legs under you, but was there any struggles or were you

[01:18:35] pretty, pretty solid the whole time going through? And, um, how do you deal with, with when the

[01:18:40] delt creeps in and you're like, yo, I really want to do this day after day for the next three months?

[01:18:44] Sure. Uh, so actually the first article I wrote in the industry was something I experienced on trail

[01:18:51] bouncing back from injury and I coming out of the Smokies at like round mile 250 going North. Um,

[01:18:59] I developed really severe Achilles tendonitis and shin splints. And the problem was my bag was too

[01:19:08] heavy. Uh, and it was so cold and I get very, very cold. No matter how many layers I would put on,

[01:19:15] there were some nights that were below zero. There were some days that didn't get above 32.

[01:19:20] And so I was hiking all day because if I stopped moving, I would be cold, but that exhausted my body.

[01:19:28] So it was, uh, um, uh, kind of a whirlpool of trouble until it broke, it broke me. And so I had to take

[01:19:38] three weeks off in Asheville. I could barely walk. I remember sobbing in the parking lot, like holding

[01:19:44] onto the railing, like walking into the physical or the sports medicine, like urgent care. Um, and I

[01:19:50] remember she told me I would not be able to finish the AT like with my shins or something. And I'm

[01:19:56] very grateful that I did go back and I, I took it slow. That was really the most important thing was

[01:20:03] I was rigidly holding myself to 12 mile days. And I also took a lot of weight off my back, um,

[01:20:12] initially, which helped until I did build up trail legs enough to pull those big miles.

[01:20:18] Yeah. Achilles tendinitis is brutal too, because, and I've had it multiple times. I used to do

[01:20:24] marathon running. And the problem is, is you, it's usually an overuse injury and then, you know,

[01:20:30] it, it becomes painful and then you rest it for a week and then you think like, Oh, I have no pain

[01:20:34] and I have no issue. But then you go and you go for two miles and you're like, all right, then

[01:20:39] I'm fine. And then two and a half miles, it starts creeping in again.

[01:20:42] Yeah. It's sneaky. You have to take care of it. I learned some stretches, like a series of stretches

[01:20:48] that I still do today to like every 10,000 steps, which is about every four miles to specifically show

[01:20:55] some love to my Achilles. Yeah. Yeah. And then, um, so you were successful in your, um, your through

[01:21:02] hike. Can you talk about the sort of the phases of the Appalachian trail from your perspective? Like

[01:21:07] obviously you got the Southern Appalachians, then you get into, uh, pencil, sort of the midsection.

[01:21:12] And then you get to the, the real fun part, which is up in Vermont and New Hampshire. But what was

[01:21:17] your perspective on the personality of the trail sections? Yeah. So interestingly, I actually worked

[01:21:22] for the Appalachian Trail Conservancy when I was in college for a year, I was interning, helping with

[01:21:27] their volunteer program and they have four regions, uh, regional offices that I think makes a lot

[01:21:33] of sense, uh, the Southern regional office. So that's Southern Appalachian, like you mentioned,

[01:21:38] Virginia, it's called Varo, the Varo regional off regional office, and then the mid Atlantic.

[01:21:44] And then, like you said, the Northeast, um, the Southern felt like home. Virginia felt long. Um,

[01:21:52] but truly I didn't have it as bad as others. Cause I actually, those three weeks I was off trail.

[01:21:57] I skipped up when I came back 300 miles, which about 200 of it was in Southern Virginia, um, went to

[01:22:05] Katahdin, finished that July, and then came back that fall to finish that, um, uh, length of trail

[01:22:12] that I had skipped ahead to stay ahead. So I didn't have it as, uh, I say bad with quotation marks because

[01:22:19] it's how bad is hiking really? It's not, we're there for fun, but, um, it does. You're, you're

[01:22:27] blasting through States at the beginning, Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee, feeling good smokies.

[01:22:34] And then it's this long stretch of Virginia, um, long, long. Um, and people say the Virginia blues,

[01:22:43] they reference the Virginia blues sometimes. Then after that is rock Sylvania, which I did not find

[01:22:49] to be that terrible. I think everybody's got their own interpretations of like how correct or, uh,

[01:22:59] fear mongery like these names and, um, the reputation of these places is, but yeah, the whites was one

[01:23:06] that lived up too. Um, like people tried to tell me if I was doing 25s, I would not be able to hold

[01:23:15] twenties through the whites. And I was like, uh, uh, uh, uh, I remember my clip was just destroyed.

[01:23:26] Um, and I would have to take more breaks. Um, and it was, you guys have mountains that are just

[01:23:34] so unlike mine from home, like the rocks, the huge rocks that you're climbing over.

[01:23:42] It's just Garfield Ridge is just like, you know, climbing down a waterfall. It's just ridiculous

[01:23:47] because a lot of these trails have worn down over. So we didn't, they're not designed

[01:23:53] really, um, to deal with the erosion and the, the usage over, you know, last hundred, 150 years.

[01:24:00] So yeah, you get down to bare rock or anything that was dirt, um, is pretty much now rocks and

[01:24:05] boulders and it's, it gets a little crazy. So now did you go, did you go southbound through the,

[01:24:10] the whites, if you went back or you went, you went northbound up to.

[01:24:13] Yep. I went north. Yeah. Uh, so I had started back in like Southern Virginia and finished up to the top.

[01:24:19] So I'm grateful that I do feel like I had that kind of, like, I got to experience the walking

[01:24:24] through regions. Um,

[01:24:26] Yeah. You get to, you got to see the Musilaki and then you're like, okay, this is what's ahead of me.

[01:24:30] Right. Yeah. Now Musilaki, I do have a strong opinion about, I loved it. It was like a playground.

[01:24:36] Um, I was hiking, I, I hiked just over half of it, just totally solo. Um, and then I ended up hiking

[01:24:44] with a couple of people off and on. Um, but one person in particular that was my buddy, like through

[01:24:50] the whites and through Musilak, uh, oh man, I love Musilak. Just jumping around and choosing your, um,

[01:25:00] where you were going, you just had to accept you were going to go really slow.

[01:25:04] Like just know that the day is Musilak and that is the day.

[01:25:10] Yeah. Cause you get a nice extended amount of time above, um, treeline. And then if you get a view,

[01:25:14] you can really see what's ahead of you. You can, you can see all the way out to the,

[01:25:17] the presidential. So it's, it's, it's awesome. Um, but I did want to go back a little bit. Um,

[01:25:24] so this is great. We talked about through hiking. So if anyone's listening, they can, they can,

[01:25:27] you got their wheels spinning, but I do want to go back a little bit to just talk about, um,

[01:25:32] the current state of the recovery in Asheville. Um, so we've had a couple of guests on. I think

[01:25:37] we have one person that had volunteered. Um, I think they were in Hendersonville or something

[01:25:41] they were helping out, but, um, can you give you just a quick overview from your perspective?

[01:25:46] We, what's the state of, um, the, the area as far as recovery goes, and then your perspective on,

[01:25:52] you know, the timeline on when they'll get back to some semblance of normal. And, um, then your,

[01:25:59] any advice you have about anybody that might be thinking about coming down there to hike or,

[01:26:03] or get, go out to that area. Totally. Yeah. Um, current state of Asheville, uh, still no water.

[01:26:10] A lot of, uh, people with wells that have electricity are able to get their well water. Um,

[01:26:17] but specifically they were out of electricity for over two weeks in some places and a lot of places.

[01:26:25] Um, and the water's been out for over a month now, I believe they are aiming to have

[01:26:31] potable water going through the pipes again by mid, no mid December is the current projection that I'm

[01:26:38] seeing. Um, recently, I believe in the last two weeks, um, they repaired the main water pipe to the

[01:26:46] North Fork reservoir, which feeds the majority of the city of Asheville area, including my direct

[01:26:52] family, my mom, my dad. And, um, so they had repaired it. And so that, you know, a week or two in,

[01:27:02] at least people were able to get water into their houses now. Um, because before water wasn't even

[01:27:08] coming out through the pipes. Um, and it's now contaminated with sediment and bacteria. And,

[01:27:16] thankfully Sawyer is exactly appropriate for that kind of contamination. Um, however,

[01:27:24] as North Fork has been, um, well, I say North Fork specifically, cause it's the one I've been

[01:27:30] hearing about the most, but, um, they've been dumping massive amounts of chlorine into the water

[01:27:36] to try and, uh, kill off the bacteria and make it so people can drink. But unfortunately,

[01:27:42] Sawyer doesn't filter out chlorine. So if you have a sensitivity to that, that might not be

[01:27:47] a better for you than bottled water. Um, so people do kind of have to make those decisions

[01:27:52] for themselves. Person, my, my family, personally, I was able to bring them a bucket system, which is

[01:27:59] this five gallon bucket. And you literally just using gravity, take the filter off and hang it down.

[01:28:05] And that's on, and then you put it up and that's off and it's clean potable water.

[01:28:10] They live next.

[01:28:11] And the source of the water, is it from, um, is it from like, uh, ponds, lakes, or is it,

[01:28:17] is it from springs or how do you actually get the water?

[01:28:19] Yeah. My family has a little Creek right next to them. They live in rice spill. Um,

[01:28:24] and they just happen to have a little Creek. So even though now they have water coming through

[01:28:29] their pipes, they're still collecting water from the Creek to drink because it's not chlorinated.

[01:28:35] So yeah, it's, um, one day at a time for sure.

[01:28:42] Yeah. Do you have any sense on how people are? It's, I mean, it's obviously traumatic.

[01:28:47] Matter of fact, I was down, I was in Elon the day that, um, the storm came through and it was,

[01:28:51] you know, it felt like nothing. It was a little bit of a, you know, a couple of months, but do you,

[01:28:54] do you have a sense on how the general community is, is feeling? Are they still traumatized over

[01:29:00] it? Or are they, um, they, they, they moving forward, which is more of a, you know, this,

[01:29:05] this is just a freak accident and we're going to move forward with life or how are they feeling?

[01:29:09] Um, this is monumentally devastating for this region. Um, monumentally devastating for

[01:29:16] the cities and the counties, um, like big and small in that region. And people are

[01:29:24] going to be remembering this as long as they live. Um, like there was an entire family that

[01:29:33] lost 11 people, um, because they lived in the hauler together. That's how these families and

[01:29:41] neighborhoods and communities were built. And they're my elementary schools named Haw Creek

[01:29:48] after the Creek. There's all of these different, like Swananoa is named after the Swananoa, which

[01:29:54] runs a mile from my dad's house. And, um, yeah, lots, uh, lots of destruction. I, I do see a lot of

[01:30:04] people throwing themselves into community work, which is really cool to see. Like there's some

[01:30:10] really incredible local organizations and grassroots efforts from people that are from here, are not from

[01:30:19] here, um, have no connection, have direct family. Like it's all, all across the board. It's cool to see

[01:30:27] where people are stepping up and taking the opportunity to help, especially in a society where

[01:30:34] things seem to be more and more polarized. It's kind of nice to have, like everybody can

[01:30:42] like share the grief together as a community to an extent. Um, so there's, there is that we at least

[01:30:50] have each other and that has been very important and good. Yeah. And it gives a perspective. Um,

[01:30:58] obviously when these natural disasters happen, you're thinking of like, uh, food, electricity,

[01:31:04] warmth, and water are the, are the key pieces there. So Sawyer is uniquely positioned to, um,

[01:31:11] assist in that. And I, we actually covered a story a couple of weeks ago when, when we first started

[01:31:15] talking about this, that I think they donated, Sawyer donated like 10,000 filters, I think.

[01:31:20] Yeah. It's a, it's kind of a wild story. I'm one half of our marketing team. Um, and I just happen

[01:31:27] to be based like here in Western North Carolina. I'm in Charlotte is where I'm personally based.

[01:31:32] It's about two hours South. And, um, Monday morning, I had been getting updates from my family

[01:31:39] and my friends about the water situation, about the extent of the damage. Um, Monday morning,

[01:31:46] Kurt, who's the owner, the, it's a family owned business. Um, he committed to donating 10,000

[01:31:53] filters, get them into whoever's hands is going to get them into the hands that need them, um, as fast

[01:31:59] as possible. So that involved overnighting me personally, hundreds of filters that I was able

[01:32:04] to drive up. Um, it involved flying a plane up that is literally packed with gravity filters and boxes,

[01:32:13] just as much as they could fit. Um, and I was actually able to drive that in. Um, we had,

[01:32:21] we have an ambassador in Asheville named Jennifer Farr Davis. And yeah, she set the Appalachian trail

[01:32:28] record speed record for 47 days back in the day. And she's born and raised Southern Appalachian

[01:32:35] girly like me. And we sent her over 900 filters and she was able to distribute them to her hiking

[01:32:42] and community connections in groups of 50 or less. So, you know, they're actually like getting out

[01:32:48] there to people that need them. Um, but then after, I don't know, maybe a week or so,

[01:32:54] and we realized this is worse than we thought, this is going to take months and Sawyer is an

[01:33:01] appropriate solution. Kurt doubled the donation. So 20,000 filters. Um, and I believe to date,

[01:33:09] we've donated 24,000 and a couple thousand units of our sunscreen and insect repellents, um,

[01:33:17] really kind of whatever our nonprofit partners and just the local groups we were talking to were,

[01:33:23] uh, requesting. Wow. And this is, so Sawyer has a history of like a long history. So

[01:33:29] company's been around since the early 1980s. There's a long history from what I read of

[01:33:34] different programs where, and it's not just in the U S but in other parts of the world where,

[01:33:38] um, they have, um, assisted with water filtration technology in different projects, right? Do you,

[01:33:45] do you know who, can you give a little bit of background on some of the highlights that

[01:33:48] have happened over the years? I would love to. Yeah. Sawyer's been doing international

[01:33:52] clean water work since 2008 and they donate 90% of their profits to this work. They have over 140

[01:34:01] charity partners around the world working in over 80 countries. Um, some of our longest standing

[01:34:07] programs, um, actually water by women, formerly water with blessings. They started one of our first,

[01:34:15] uh, clean water programs, uh, clean water programs in Honduras and they were in Asheville distributing

[01:34:22] filters, like working on the ground there as well. So, uh, we just happens to be able to have that

[01:34:29] connection and mobilize for clean water, both places, which was incredible. But, um, that project

[01:34:36] specifically is one of our longest water by women. Um, and our other longest standing programs are in

[01:34:46] Fiji and people there have been using their water filters every day to give water to their families

[01:34:52] and their communities for over 15 years. And there's, do you have to, you have to travel there

[01:34:57] to inspect that program, right? Yes. Not personally. Yeah, but you need to tell them like you need to

[01:35:03] go, you know, to get firsthand knowledge. But, uh, Oh, that, that's amazing. So, so basically as,

[01:35:08] as hikers and I have like, I have a, I've had a couple of minis and I've got, I switched,

[01:35:13] I got the squeeze lap. Now I have the squeeze, which is a little bit bigger. Um, because I think

[01:35:17] my daughter and her boyfriend are going to start doing more backpacking. So I got the bigger one.

[01:35:22] Cause I was like, maybe I'll just use that. But, um, so when we're, when we purchase these,

[01:35:28] then a part of the profit is going back into these programs. So we're given back as, as hikers.

[01:35:34] Yeah. 90% of the profits. And that looks a lot of different ways, like tangibly to the NGOs that we

[01:35:39] work with. Like, uh, we donate filters and also we do a lot of work with training and maintenance

[01:35:45] programs to make sure that when the filters are distributed, they're being distributed with education.

[01:35:51] And so people can backflush their filter and it can last them a lifetime. And we also do lots of

[01:35:58] research on the follow-ups and the impact. And we have, we know data like, um, in Liberia,

[01:36:05] that was a border to border project that we completed in the last five years, I believe five, six, seven

[01:36:11] recent. Um, but border to border clean water projects in Liberia. And those communities were seeing 90%

[01:36:20] reduction of diarrhea, um, symptoms associated with diarrhea. Um, so it's pretty cool being able to

[01:36:28] like actually have the data and the research to stand on, um, in something that's so directly

[01:36:36] impactful to people's health and economically. I'd want to say Fijian families saved an estimated $600 a

[01:36:43] year because they didn't have to buy water. Um, and then if you're otherwise boiling water,

[01:36:51] you save 200 to 400 trees per family per year. If, uh, you don't have to boil water anymore. So

[01:36:57] there are all these like different facets of the community and of life that clean water affects, um,

[01:37:05] that are positive. And so it's cool to keep track of this.

[01:37:09] Yeah, no, it's fantastic. And what I tell people as, uh, as far as the water filtering goes,

[01:37:14] um, you know, in, in New Hampshire and the white mountains in Maine, where I hike a lot too, um,

[01:37:19] we are, it's beneficial because there's a lot of water sources. So I'm lazy and I like to carry as

[01:37:25] little weight as I possibly can. Although I do carry a lot of like safety gear and stuff. So I'm probably

[01:37:31] heavier than I need to be. Um, but I always try to map out and I've hiked a lot in the whites.

[01:37:37] I try to map out where are my water sources and then figure out like, okay, if I can start my hike

[01:37:43] and go like a mile and a half and get to the last water source, and I've only start with like a half a

[01:37:49] liter and then I'm pretty light and then I can fill up another liter. So typically I, my system is,

[01:37:55] so I, I've had the mini for a long time and I use the, um, geez, what are those water bottles?

[01:38:01] Smart water bottle.

[01:38:02] Smart water bottle. That's it. And, um, you know, I'll just slap that on and, um, put it in the

[01:38:08] Soya Mini. Now I've gotten the, the, the squeeze, which is a little bit bigger, works the same way.

[01:38:13] Um, and that's basically my system is I, I'll try to hike and I'm more of a weekend warrior when I do

[01:38:19] the overnight stuff and then I'm a day hiker a lot. Um, so in the summertime I always rely on the

[01:38:25] filters and it's just easy to do, but, uh, am I doing everything right? Like, is there a, is there

[01:38:30] a system I'm missing here or do, or am I dialed in? It sounds like you're pretty dialed in. It doesn't

[01:38:35] sound like you're, it doesn't sound like you're anxious. Um, it sounds like you have what you want

[01:38:40] to feel comfortable. So like your first date stuff is, you know, important to you. So take it along.

[01:38:45] Um, but water wise. Yeah, that's quite literally my water system on trail. What I've

[01:38:51] eventually settled on as my penultimate, uh, favorite system over thousands of miles is

[01:38:59] two smart water bottles. One is my clean bottle. One is my dirty bottle and has my squeeze on it.

[01:39:05] And I fill up the dirty bottle and I squeeze into the clean bottle. And that's usually when I get my

[01:39:11] rest, like I I'll be at a water source, fill it up and then squeeze. It takes maybe a minute or two,

[01:39:17] uh, to depending on how clogged your filter is. Um, thankfully, hopefully it only takes a minute

[01:39:26] or so. And that's what I like to do. Um, a lot of people will drink straight from the Sawyer.

[01:39:32] A lot of people will use it in line with their bladder. Um, Canoc is a brand that has bladders

[01:39:41] made of TPU. That's really high quality that through hikers really, especially love. Um, they're

[01:39:47] a wonderful company. So there's all these different ways. If your dirty water isn't getting into your

[01:39:53] clean water, you're, you're good and you're filtering it somehow, you're, you're probably good.

[01:40:00] Yeah. And I think that, um, typically like I just have like, I've done the, the two,

[01:40:05] two, um, bottle thing or a matter of fact, I'll, you know, I'll fill it up into this, uh,

[01:40:11] now Jean, but, um, typically I just have my dirty water and I put the filter on top of it and let it,

[01:40:16] let it go. Cause it's a day hike for me on the weekend stuff. Overnights I'll, um, I'll bring a

[01:40:21] little bit more, but yeah, it's, it's perfect for me. And then as far as cold weather goes,

[01:40:25] so we do, I do a lot of winter hiking. I usually don't take a water filter. It's just, um, you gotta

[01:40:30] be nervous about like, uh, my understanding is once they've, if there's water inside of them and they

[01:40:35] freeze, then they're no good. Right? Sure. So what's going on inside of a Sawyer filter,

[01:40:39] any model is a hollow fiber membrane. It's a physical separation by size. So we go down to 0.1

[01:40:47] absolute microns, just ridiculously tiny, like one strand of your hair, 17 microns across. So we go

[01:40:54] down to 0.1 absolute and, um, everything bigger than 0.1 absolute microns is getting filtered out

[01:41:01] when those are the holes, the pores in our fibers. So when the fibers are wet and it freezes,

[01:41:10] it permanent, it can permanently expand those pores. And that's a permanent change to let bigger things

[01:41:18] through. So it may not be an immediate effect. It may not affect you at all. It may be an immediate,

[01:41:24] um, thing that you notice depending on how long it's been frozen or my rule of thumb that I tell

[01:41:31] people is if you left it out in freezing and it got below 32 degrees, whether it's in your car,

[01:41:39] whether it's in your tent, like unless it's in your sleeping bag or, um, it's safest to get a new one.

[01:41:48] Got it. Got it. So, and, but the, they last a long time. I mean, I've had, um,

[01:41:52] I think I have three now and I haven't, I haven't swapped them out. I did. I did one of them.

[01:41:57] Sometimes you make a mistake and you're like, okay, I, there's, there's another water source up

[01:42:03] the way and I can, I can roll the dice and I've gotten bit before because I'll, um, you know,

[01:42:09] I'll pass the water source and then I realized like, oh, it's all dried up. And then I'm, I'm like,

[01:42:12] okay, I got a puddle or I just have to go another two or three miles. So I have done some muddy

[01:42:19] water situations, but it's not bad. You know, I do have a recommendation kind of along those lines.

[01:42:24] I cut off the bottom four inches of a smart water bottle, just another one, not my dirty or my clean.

[01:42:31] I put it on the bottom of one of my dirt, my bottles that I'm bringing. And then I have a scoop

[01:42:37] if I need one because I collect from puddles all the time. And, um, you know, source, you never know.

[01:42:45] So like, I like having multiple water collection strategies too. So I like having the smart water

[01:42:51] bottle as an option, the Sawyer squeeze bag as an option. Usually I bring, um, and, um, yeah.

[01:43:00] Yeah. I feel like drinking out of a mud puddle is like a really good character build. Matter of fact,

[01:43:05] I've done that before with like my little, my little nephews I've, I've shown them, I'm like,

[01:43:08] look, we're going to drink out of this mud puddle and I've used the filter and they,

[01:43:12] they love it. I think it's the coolest thing ever. Like, Oh, this is so cool. Like I'm like,

[01:43:16] so, um, yeah, it's fun. You can do fun tricks with the Sawyer.

[01:43:20] Totally. Yeah, absolutely.

[01:43:23] Right. So now, um, do you get some, there's some other products that you sell. Um, so we,

[01:43:27] we focus on high, you know, mostly a hiking podcast, but we do, my co-host stomp is on search

[01:43:33] and rescue. So we basically do search and rescue news stories. And then I collect data on search and

[01:43:41] rescue events. So anytime there's a search and rescue event in the white mountains, there's an,

[01:43:44] there's a media report that goes out. So I'll track, I have a table and it basically is like,

[01:43:50] okay, who's the hiker, their age, um, you know, where they were the type of injury and the, um,

[01:43:58] the most common injury. So there's like three or four different categories. There's people that get

[01:44:01] lost and they, they don't have a headlamp or they, they, there's miscellaneous like shoulder,

[01:44:07] their head injuries, there's reckless behavior, which is usually young men. Um, medical issues,

[01:44:12] there's fatigue, but the most common injury that we see in the white mountains goes back to what you

[01:44:18] were talking about is these, these crazy rock filled, um, trails, a lower leg injury.

[01:44:24] So since the beginning of the podcast, we've been doing this for like three or four years.

[01:44:29] I've always said that, um, for me, one of the key 10 essentials is a field splint and the ability to

[01:44:37] use it because you're not always going to be able to, um, self rescue. You know, if you break your

[01:44:43] leg, you're, you need a rescue and you have to call, but there are times where you roll your ankle.

[01:44:47] And if you had a field splint and you know how to use it, then you might be able to get you,

[01:44:52] you know, I'd be able to power up for a couple of miles. So you guys do sell splints.

[01:44:56] We do. Yeah. We have, um, uh, Sam splints in two different sizes. Um, an additional recommendation

[01:45:04] that I personally have for people that may have unstable ankles or just uncoordinated like me.

[01:45:11] I love my trekking poles. I bring my trekking poles everywhere. It's like having two more

[01:45:17] appendages there for you. And I know that I would have had more injuries than I have on trail if I

[01:45:24] had not had my trekking poles. Oh yeah. They've saved me so many times with the water crossings.

[01:45:29] It's, um, I'm a big fan. Some people don't, don't like them, but I, I do, I do like them. And then

[01:45:34] you also have in insect, um, repellent and ticks is a big concern for people up here in the Northeast.

[01:45:40] So permethrin and DEET and, um, did I see that you're from Massachusetts specifically?

[01:45:47] Massachusetts. Yep. Yep. So I have this very specific memory of going in through Massachusetts

[01:45:52] with, uh, my partner at the time and he on trail, um, and he had a full leg tattoo. Like it was a

[01:45:59] full color sleeve on his leg. And I remember having to stop every, you know, hour or so and try and find

[01:46:08] the ticks on his leg in the color of the tattoo. Impossible. And Massachusetts specifically, uh,

[01:46:17] was where we've like found the seed ticks. So that was just a nightmare. I have used permethrin since.

[01:46:28] Yeah. And do you, so you, so you can go on sawyer.com and it will include it in the show notes,

[01:46:32] but, um, you can treat, and I've done this before with my clothes. Sometimes I get a little bit,

[01:46:36] a little bit lazy, but I've, I've treated my socks, my sneakers, um, my backpack as well. Um,

[01:46:43] and I really haven't gotten into my other clothes. You can, you can do your other clothes,

[01:46:47] but do you have any, any tips or advice on, on treating clothes?

[01:46:50] Absolutely. Yeah. I have a Mary Poppins supply, thankfully. So I treat everything. I treat my dog.

[01:46:57] It's her flea and tick, uh, treatment. It bonds to her fur. Like it bonds to the fabric, uh, the fibers

[01:47:04] in your clothing. And it lasts 34 days for fleas, six weeks for ticks, super effective. And I prefer it

[01:47:11] to the internal, um, uh, medicine that I used to give her for flea and ticks because it doesn't take

[01:47:18] the tick biting the animal to start working. And so she's a husky. She's got a really thick coat. So

[01:47:24] when I go camping and we get in the tent at night, they don't just crawl off of her and onto me

[01:47:29] anymore. Um, which is a benefit of, of Permethrin. Um, but I also have a camper that I love and I live

[01:47:38] in and I treat the couch. I treat my picnic blankets. I treat the bed in there. Like I'm,

[01:47:45] Permethrin's kind of...

[01:47:46] So no creepy crawlies are getting near you or the dog?

[01:47:48] Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

[01:47:49] No. So, um, as a matter of fact, I was going to save this for the end, but like I've been

[01:47:54] creeping on your Instagram and the dog is like amazing. So what's the dog's name? Thru?

[01:47:58] Her name is Thru. Yeah.

[01:48:00] Yes.

[01:48:01] Um, it's, it's a little bit of a wild story. I got her on trail on that 300 mile section

[01:48:07] in Southern Virginia that I was finishing in September.

[01:48:11] Did somebody surrender her?

[01:48:13] Yeah. There was a guy going the opposite direction. He was going North. I was going South.

[01:48:19] Um, in the woods, like after Trent's grocery, which is this like gun and ammo and also convenience

[01:48:25] store that Thru Hikers love because sandwiches. And so God, we were probably at least 20, 10,

[01:48:33] 20 miles outside of any road crossing after that. And he had three Huskies and it was a five minute

[01:48:39] conversation. He said she was the small black one. The other ones were big white blue eyes. And he said

[01:48:46] she was going to go to the pound the next time he got to. And I was like, I'll rehome her. Um,

[01:48:52] and he gave me her American kennel club, purebred paperwork. Um, beautiful dog. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

[01:49:00] but she actually, I, I used my bear line as a leash. The man gave me a hunk of cheese.

[01:49:06] There was no love lost as he was walking away. He said her name's Maggie, but she don't know it.

[01:49:12] And she's full aggressive. And I said, Oh no, but she is my best friend. Like two days in,

[01:49:21] I was like, well, this is my dog forever now. Cause she was two and a half when I got her,

[01:49:27] took her to the vet. She actually had Lyme disease and was not spayed, had no vaccinations.

[01:49:33] So got all of that done, but, um, she's also a great little through hiking dog. She does about

[01:49:39] a hundred miles at a time. That's kind of her, her, um, favorite distance to go. We did the

[01:49:46] foothills trail together last year in South Carolina, 75 miles. And this year we actually

[01:49:53] became a therapy dog team. So, uh, you've really gone in with the training then. Um, did you find

[01:49:59] that when you get a dog that's like, so two and a half years old, they've got all their habits

[01:50:03] developed? Was she pretty well trained already? Did you have, you had to, you had to start from

[01:50:06] scratch. I taught this dog to pee outside and sit and everything else is her disposition and her choice.

[01:50:14] Wow. Um, she's been like this, just calm, wise. I like to say, um, an aloof floof is her specific

[01:50:25] note in the vet, uh, in the vet notes, but she's just incredibly chill. I, I lived with a six year

[01:50:32] old for a couple of years and that girl loved through. So she got really used to kids. Um,

[01:50:40] the only bad dog things that she does is she has killed two of my chickens. She's a bird dog. She

[01:50:46] loves, she was so proud of herself too. Um, and if she's off leash, she will run away and return when

[01:50:56] she has found something dead to eat or roll in, in her own time. Um, all right. So that's, uh,

[01:51:05] so a little stressful, you got to keep it on leash, but no, it's a good looking dog. I may,

[01:51:08] I may have to take a photo and put it on our show notes so people can check it out.

[01:51:12] Oh, for sure. Absolutely. I got, I got plenty. She's got some good wooing ones.

[01:51:19] Awesome. Um, all right. So then one question I did one, one more question for you and then,

[01:51:24] you know, we, I might have one or two more, but, um, I'm always interested in this. So you've got a

[01:51:29] lot of miles behind you. Have you ever gotten trouble? Anything where you're like, you know what,

[01:51:32] I may have to call and get a rescue here. Cause I'm, I'm, I'm not doing well.

[01:51:37] I've been fortunate enough to never have to, I I've never thought that I needed to

[01:51:41] use my, um, emergency beacon. I always carry it because just in case, um, I've never been in

[01:51:49] something that I was about to do that, but I have been in situations that if I didn't get out,

[01:51:56] I would have had to, um, I've gotten turned around on the top of mountains and like,

[01:52:02] I chose to take a bad weather route and bad weather and followed a deer trail. And now I have no idea

[01:52:08] where I am and, um, don't know where the trail is. And those moments, I just like slow down.

[01:52:15] Like everything happens at the speed that I am moving, which I love about the outdoors. And so

[01:52:21] you can just sit, like breathe as long as I need to get up and figure it out from there. And so

[01:52:29] that was one I did have kind of recently. I did the Appalachian higher out. It went through the

[01:52:36] Smokies. So I got to do the Smokies again and I fell and it was like 6am. I was going to meet my

[01:52:43] mom who was bringing me my resupply and the pouring rain, a newfound gap in the Smokies at 9am. Um,

[01:52:52] but I woke up early to make it there and I slipped on some wood and got a pretty gnarly cut in my knee

[01:52:57] and probably should have got stitches, but didn't. I, um, figured it was washing itself out well enough

[01:53:04] and if it got worse, I would have gone into town, but it didn't really get that much worse. So now I

[01:53:10] have a cool score. Yeah. Yeah. And I tell people like, I look at these numbers all the time, like in

[01:53:15] the white mountains we get, I think there's like 3 million hikers in the white mountains and in the

[01:53:22] news reports is maybe about 150 news reports of search and rescue. So your chances of getting in

[01:53:29] trouble out there, you know, you should be prepared, but your chances are pretty low that something's

[01:53:33] going to happen. It's just walking, you know, you just got to pay attention. Yeah. I, I always

[01:53:38] compare it to getting in a car, like getting in a car, I feel like is a much more risky activity.

[01:53:44] Um, yeah, yeah, exactly. So last question I promise, and then I'll let you go. But, um,

[01:53:51] if you were going to give advice to people from the Northeast, they wanted to come down to that area

[01:53:55] and check out like a, um, a trip to go hiking. Maybe they do a weekend overnight or they're looking

[01:54:01] to do day hikes. First of all, is it appropriate to go into the Smokies in that area because of the

[01:54:05] damage? And then second of all, do you have any, like, what, what are your tips as far as places

[01:54:09] to check out? Totally. Lovely question. Um, there is a lot of effort to love those spaces from afar,

[01:54:17] the spaces that are not open. So I recommend looking if, if there is a specific place that you

[01:54:24] really wanted to go to and are really disappointed that they're still closed, um, try and love them from

[01:54:29] afar. That's really important for these communities rebuilding, but if they are closed, do not go.

[01:54:37] And there, you can find this out by looking at the, um, impacts of hurricane Helene and what areas are

[01:54:44] accepting visitors in the region. Um, and listen to that, that is there for a reason, like those

[01:54:52] guidance, um, people are making sure that they have resources for themselves and their community

[01:54:59] and rebuild. And that's kind of the, the focus right now. So, um, that being said, there are some

[01:55:06] counties and in some towns, one of my favorite being Burnsville, North Carolina that are open and

[01:55:13] accepting visitors and encouraging that because that's what majority of their economy is, is tourism.

[01:55:20] Um, especially because it's fall. And so the fall leaves are always really, um, this is like their,

[01:55:27] you know, main season. So the places that are closed live them from afar and don't go. And, um, uh, I love

[01:55:36] Burnsville that is kind of out in the County. They are near the Black Mountain Crest trail, which is a 12

[01:55:44] and a half mile trail that goes up to Mount Mitchell. Really beautiful. That's a wonderful,

[01:55:50] like out and back or just a point to point if you'd prefer. Um, yeah, that's the one that's

[01:55:58] immediately coming to mind. I believe the Blue Ridge Parkway just opened up more sections this week.

[01:56:04] Um, and so always love the Blue Ridge Parkway and the mountains to sea trail along that. Um,

[01:56:11] but that one, I, I can't guarantee the tree would trail would be too much past, you know, a quarter

[01:56:19] mile, um, from the, the parking areas. But, um, there are definitely places that are, that do want

[01:56:28] people to come and recreate. And there are spaces like that, uh, it is appropriate to continue their

[01:56:34] vacation and plan your trip to, um, just make sure you look. Yeah. Yeah. I'll check out Burnsville.

[01:56:41] That sounds, sounds interesting. And then obviously like you've been up to the whites, um, before,

[01:56:46] but if you ever get the urge to come back up, definitely reach out. Um, you know, we'll, uh,

[01:56:51] we'll take you to some areas off of the AT that are, that are amazing. So it's, it's,

[01:56:56] you know, the white, the whites are fun as well, but we appreciate you coming on and, um, thank you so

[01:57:00] much to Sawyer for all the support that they've, they've done, um, over the years and the great

[01:57:06] products. And we'll definitely link those in the show notes and encourage the listeners to,

[01:57:10] to check out the website and buy some product. Awesome. Thank you so much. And I'm the one in

[01:57:15] Sawyer's socials and our blog. So anybody ever has any water filter insect repellent questions,

[01:57:22] just hop in the DMs and say, Hey Oats. Awesome. Well, thanks Oats. And, um, you know, we'll,

[01:57:29] hopefully catch up with you again and maybe next time you can bring the dog for a hello.

[01:57:34] Absolutely. She's around here somewhere. I'm sure of it.

[01:57:37] She's chasing a chicken, right? Oh God. I hope not.

[01:57:42] Well, awesome. All right. Well, thank you. All right. Stomp. What do you think? Very good, huh?

[01:57:52] Epic. Yeah. I love them. They're, they're a great company. Yeah. She's very cool too.

[01:57:56] Awesome company. Yeah. And she's got an awesome floofy dog, which I, which I always appreciate.

[01:58:02] Yeah. I mean, water filtration is fantastic and what they're doing to help out after that

[01:58:08] disaster down South is just phenomenal. Yeah. I mean, she was positioned like perfectly to,

[01:58:13] I mean, obviously it's a tragedy, but she was positioned perfectly to help them like navigate

[01:58:17] the logistics for them and like they were right on it. So, um, it's a, a bright spot in a sad story

[01:58:24] for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. They're rebounding. Those are some tough people down there.

[01:58:29] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, but that's it. Stomp. We pulled in the, um, all the hiking search and

[01:58:36] rescue type stories into the beginning of the show. So this is all we have. That's it. That's it. Yeah.

[01:58:42] Lean and mean. Lean and mean. All right. Stomp. So just remember, um, stay away from the,

[01:58:49] the black bears and stay safe out there. Yeah. And we'll see you at the, uh, rescue me if anybody's

[01:58:54] racing it. Be safe. It's going to be a cold one. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed the show,

[01:59:09] you can subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, pod beam, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[01:59:18] If you want to learn more about the topics covered in today's show, please check out the show notes and

[01:59:23] safety information at slasher podcast.com. That's S L A S R podcast.com. You can also

[01:59:33] follow the show on Facebook and Instagram. We hope you'll join us next week for another great show

[01:59:39] until then on behalf of Mike and Stomp, get out there and crush some mega peaks.

[01:59:47] Now covered in scratches, blisters, and bug bites. Chris staff wanted to complete his most challenging

[01:59:53] day hike ever. Fish and game officers say the hiker from Florida activated an emergency beacon yesterday

[02:00:00] morning. He was hiking along the Appalachian trail when the weather started to get worse.

[02:00:06] Officials say the snow was piled up to three feet in some spots and there was a wind chill of minus one

[02:00:11] degree. And there's three words that describe this race. Do we all know where they are?

[02:00:20] Lieutenant James Neeland, New Hampshire fishing game. Louisiana, thanks for being with us today.

[02:00:24] Thanks for having me. What are some of the most common mistakes you see people make when they're

[02:00:28] heading out on the trails to hike here in New Hampshire? Seems to me the most common is being

[02:00:31] unprepared. I think if they just simply visited hikesafe.com and got a list of the 10 essential

[02:00:37] items and had those in their packs, they probably would have no need to ever call us at all.