Episode 176 - Live Show from Rek’Lis Brewing - Full Condition Fund Raiser Event

[00:00:00] This episode is brought to you by CS Instant Coffee and Wild Raven Endurance Coaching. CS Instant Coffee, do more, weight less, CS Instant Coffee at csinstant.coffee

[00:00:17] Hi, I'm Christina from Wild Raven Endurance Coaching. I work with athletes of all levels from hikers to triathletes, helping you reach your goals with personalized guidance.

[00:00:27] With years of experience hiking, mountain biking and trail running across New England, I also have a deep knowledge of the New Hampshire 4,000 footers and the surrounding trails.

[00:00:38] Whether you're a beginner hiker or a seasoned athlete, I'll guide you towards your goals, reducing injury risk and improving your performance through smart, tailored coaching.

[00:00:48] Are you looking to transition from hiking to mountain running? I'm here to make that journey easier too.

[00:00:53] My approach combines strength training, mindfulness and life balance on and off the trail.

[00:01:00] Let me help you find more joy in your sport while getting stronger and healthier along the way.

[00:01:06] Visit www.coaching.christinafulsik.com and start your adventure today.

[00:01:18] My wife's not here because she's putting up the Christmas tree, so I feel like I get the better part of that deal.

[00:01:27] Okay, continue.

[00:02:01] This is Paul, the official voice of the Slasher Podcast.

[00:02:05] Don't worry, I'm not an AI bot like Aurora.

[00:02:09] I'm the real deal, in the flesh, not steel.

[00:02:13] We want to thank all of you for coming out tonight, including the many podcast guests who freely gave up their time to join us.

[00:02:22] Also, we wouldn't be here this evening without the creative partnership between Reckless Brewery and Ty Gagney.

[00:02:29] Huge props!

[00:02:31] The Full Conditions Kickoff is an annual fundraiser benefiting the New Hampshire Outdoor Council.

[00:02:37] Your tickets, Full Conditions beer and raffle purchases provide vital funds that support the New Hampshire volunteer search and rescue community.

[00:02:47] So, on behalf of Mike and Stomp, from the bottom of our hearts, thank you and let's get started, shall we?

[00:02:57] We discuss all things related to hiking and search and rescue in the White Mountains of New Hampshire.

[00:03:50] Here are your hosts, Mike and Stomp.

[00:04:18] Your mic should be on there, kid.

[00:04:20] Testing 1, 2, 3.

[00:04:23] Alright, so I guess we should thank Nick right now, right?

[00:04:27] You want me to just get closer?

[00:04:28] As close as possible!

[00:04:30] Okay.

[00:04:31] Yes.

[00:04:32] Alright, let's thank our friend Nick from the Puds Podcast for doing the live music earlier.

[00:04:36] Thank you, Nick.

[00:04:40] Yeah, that was Nick and then his co-host, Josh, is around too.

[00:04:44] I didn't meet him yet.

[00:04:45] He's the guy with the Boston accent.

[00:04:49] Yeah, I mean, I don't have one, so I don't know.

[00:04:51] I'm always fascinated when I see somebody with a Boston accent.

[00:04:54] Alright, so, Stomp, what else?

[00:04:58] Do we have any other thanks before we go into the intro?

[00:05:01] You've got to thank the Pavarotti of podcasts.

[00:05:04] Who's that?

[00:05:04] Me!

[00:05:05] Oh, thank you.

[00:05:06] For singing!

[00:05:07] Oh, yeah, you sang?

[00:05:08] Oh, yeah!

[00:05:09] I missed that.

[00:05:10] Yeah, I was looking for you.

[00:05:11] What did you sing?

[00:05:11] You were going to do some backups, but...

[00:05:12] Did you sing anything good?

[00:05:13] Let's see.

[00:05:14] I did some 21 Pilots.

[00:05:16] I tried.

[00:05:17] I tried to do some 21 Pilots.

[00:05:18] Alright.

[00:05:19] And we did some Hard Sun by Eddie Vedder.

[00:05:22] Oh, yeah, I like that.

[00:05:23] You missed some good stuff.

[00:05:25] Alright, I was keeping the crowd busy.

[00:05:27] Ah!

[00:05:28] So, we have some new equipment here.

[00:05:30] Stomp has this, um...

[00:05:31] I call this Simon.

[00:05:33] It's like, do you know that old video game Simon from the 80s?

[00:05:36] Like, he's got some buttons here.

[00:05:37] Can you just show the audience what those buttons do?

[00:05:41] Okay, we got that.

[00:05:42] What else do you have?

[00:05:43] Oh, you don't want to know.

[00:05:45] You'll hear it later as we move along.

[00:05:47] Well, so, if anybody's here that donated coffees, then this is what it went to.

[00:05:52] Yeah, seriously, seriously.

[00:05:53] How's the sound?

[00:05:54] Everybody hear us talking okay?

[00:05:56] Alright, good.

[00:05:56] Sorry for the people in the front.

[00:05:58] I apologize, but it is what it is.

[00:06:00] Lucy, you're going to be deaf at the end of this.

[00:06:03] But, again, thank you for coming out, everybody.

[00:06:05] Alright, so we're going to go until about 7 o'clock, and then there's going to be, um...

[00:06:09] Stomp, are you doing the DJ session?

[00:06:11] I'll do...

[00:06:12] Yeah, I'll do some music if there's time.

[00:06:13] But, um, we want to make sure everybody knows that there are raffles.

[00:06:16] We'll be doing the raffles at the end of the show.

[00:06:18] We have a ton of guests lined up tonight.

[00:06:20] We're going to be hearing from Ty Gagney, a good friend to our left here.

[00:06:24] We're going to be hearing from Ty Gagney.

[00:06:25] Uh, phenomenal.

[00:06:28] Yeah, we...

[00:06:30] Um, yeah, so we'll get to it.

[00:06:32] But, uh, yeah, let's do the intro.

[00:06:33] Let's get rolling.

[00:06:34] Okay, so, um, Kim or Lynn, can you bring Scarlett up?

[00:06:40] You guys know Littlefoot?

[00:06:43] You don't know Littlefoot?

[00:06:47] Okay.

[00:06:48] All right, Scarlett.

[00:06:50] You can climb right up there.

[00:06:52] So, talk into that for a sec.

[00:06:56] Get it close to your mouth.

[00:06:57] And just say hello.

[00:06:58] Hello.

[00:07:00] That's right.

[00:07:00] That's perfect.

[00:07:02] That's perfect.

[00:07:02] All right, so, we're going to do an intro right now, and then when I tap you on the shoulder,

[00:07:08] you're going to say, let's get started.

[00:07:10] Okay?

[00:07:11] Do you want to try it right now?

[00:07:12] Do you want to just say, let's get started on the microphone?

[00:07:14] Put it close to your mouth.

[00:07:16] Yeah.

[00:07:17] I'll do it with you.

[00:07:18] One, two, three.

[00:07:20] Let's get started.

[00:07:21] Okay, all right.

[00:07:23] Awesome.

[00:07:24] All right, so, I'm going to do the intro, and then when I tap you on the shoulder, we'll

[00:07:26] do it together, okay?

[00:07:28] Okay.

[00:07:28] All right, here we go.

[00:07:29] So, um, now when we do the let's get started, everyone go wild, because Stomp's going to

[00:07:34] be recording this, and we're going to use it for a new drop.

[00:07:36] So, um, welcome to the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast.

[00:07:40] This week, we are at Reckless Brewing for their annual full conditions event.

[00:07:45] Ty Gagney is joining us.

[00:07:47] Ty has a new book coming up, so he's going to drop some details about the upcoming book.

[00:07:52] We've got Ken Bossy.

[00:07:54] He's back here to do another comedy set.

[00:07:56] I fully expect he's going to get us canceled, so I'm looking forward to that.

[00:08:00] I'm going to share some recent Search and Rescue data, so everyone get ready for a PowerPoint

[00:08:05] presentation.

[00:08:05] It's going to be awesome.

[00:08:07] All right, and then, so we'll look at some trends and some data there, plus we've got

[00:08:12] the Reckless team coming in.

[00:08:13] We've got Andy from the Cog Railway here.

[00:08:15] And then, is Cameron going to join him?

[00:08:17] We don't know.

[00:08:18] It's a mystery.

[00:08:19] We'll find out.

[00:08:20] All right, and then we've got Patrick from the Mount Washington State Park.

[00:08:24] We've got the Mount Washington Weather Observatory folks here, and then Cindy from the Alzheimer's

[00:08:31] Association, and then Lynn and Mr. I haven't seen Mr. Andrew Barlow.

[00:08:35] Is he here?

[00:08:36] No.

[00:08:38] How dare he?

[00:08:39] How dare he?

[00:08:40] All right, well then, we've got the hiking buddies here.

[00:08:44] All this, plus we've got some surprise guests, so I'm Mike.

[00:08:47] And I'm Stump.

[00:08:49] Okay, now you're going to say, let's get started.

[00:08:50] Okay, one, two, three.

[00:08:52] Let's get started.

[00:09:05] Awesome job, Scarlett.

[00:09:06] All right, so can I ask you a question?

[00:09:08] Yeah.

[00:09:08] All right, so you recently finished your seasonal grid, right?

[00:09:12] You did?

[00:09:13] Yes?

[00:09:14] Four season.

[00:09:15] Four season grid, right?

[00:09:16] Awesome.

[00:09:17] Do you remember what mountain you finished on?

[00:09:21] No.

[00:09:21] You don't remember.

[00:09:22] You just go along with your grandma, right?

[00:09:25] Yeah.

[00:09:25] That's awesome.

[00:09:26] And then I saw, is your sister getting into hiking now?

[00:09:29] Not really.

[00:09:30] A little bit.

[00:09:30] A little bit, right?

[00:09:32] A little bit, yeah.

[00:09:33] So are you going to teach her everything that you know about hiking?

[00:09:36] Yeah.

[00:09:37] You do?

[00:09:37] No, you don't have to answer this, but can you, do you know, is there any like tips

[00:09:41] or advice that you would give the people here about staying safe while being out on a hike?

[00:09:46] I was spraying water.

[00:09:48] Oh, that's right.

[00:09:49] That's right.

[00:09:50] So, you know what my favorite piece of advice is, is bringing a headlamp.

[00:09:53] Have you ever had to hike out in the dark?

[00:09:55] Yeah.

[00:09:56] Yeah, yeah.

[00:09:56] You got to make sure you have a headlamp for that, right?

[00:09:59] Yeah.

[00:09:59] Yeah, that's awesome.

[00:10:00] Well, we're really proud of you.

[00:10:02] Everybody loves seeing all your pictures and following your adventures, and I'm so honored

[00:10:06] that you came here.

[00:10:07] And because of that, I'm going to give you a sticker, and I'm going to give you a patch.

[00:10:13] And then also, I'm going to ask you, can you say, you know this guy over here, his name's

[00:10:18] Stomp?

[00:10:20] He's not as nice as me.

[00:10:23] Who do you like better as far as a co-host for Sounds Like a Search and Rescue?

[00:10:27] Stomp or Mike?

[00:10:30] I don't know.

[00:10:31] You don't know.

[00:10:31] Okay.

[00:10:33] All right.

[00:10:34] Well, that's a good answer there.

[00:10:36] So, well, I appreciate it.

[00:10:37] So, we'll send you a paycheck in the mail for the work that you've done tonight.

[00:10:43] Anything else you want to say to the crowd?

[00:10:48] Oh, yeah.

[00:10:49] That's true.

[00:10:51] Well, you know what else?

[00:10:52] When you leave, don't let them take you home without going to get ice cream down the street.

[00:10:58] Oh, you already went?

[00:10:59] Oh, that's great.

[00:11:01] All right.

[00:11:01] Well, let's give Scarlett a big round of applause.

[00:11:04] Thank you, Littlefoot.

[00:11:08] You want to just hang out here?

[00:11:09] Do you want to just sit here?

[00:11:10] Okay.

[00:11:11] You can sit here.

[00:11:11] Ty, she's taking your seat.

[00:11:15] Awesome.

[00:11:16] All right.

[00:11:17] Well, thanks for joining us, Ty.

[00:11:18] We're excited to have you.

[00:11:21] I'm just going to adjust this here.

[00:11:24] So, all right.

[00:11:26] Anything new to report?

[00:11:27] I do have to eat it.

[00:11:30] You're a hard act to follow.

[00:11:31] This is not fair.

[00:11:32] I know, right?

[00:11:33] Don't you kind of feel like we're leading a duck boat tour right now?

[00:11:36] A little bit.

[00:11:37] A little bit.

[00:11:37] It does feel like that.

[00:11:38] It's like really surreal.

[00:11:40] Yeah.

[00:11:41] All right, Ty.

[00:11:42] So, welcome back.

[00:11:43] So, for people that aren't familiar,

[00:11:44] so Ty is the author of multiple best-selling books,

[00:11:48] including Where You'll Find Me,

[00:11:50] which is the story of Kate Matastrova,

[00:11:51] and then The Last Traverse,

[00:11:53] which is a story of two hikers that got into some trouble up on Franconia Ridge,

[00:11:58] and then he's also known for the essay Emotional Rescue.

[00:12:03] So, then that was made into a film, which was a great film.

[00:12:06] And now you're recently written a new book that's going to be coming out in December?

[00:12:12] Thursday.

[00:12:13] Oh, Thursday it's coming out.

[00:12:14] So, it's coming out soon.

[00:12:15] Awesome.

[00:12:16] So, this is breaking news.

[00:12:17] So, we're excited.

[00:12:18] So, the book is called The Lions of Winter,

[00:12:21] and it's a story of a four-day search for two missing ice climbers on Mount Washington during extreme weather.

[00:12:29] Stomp and I have been able to get a preview and read the book,

[00:12:32] so I know the story.

[00:12:33] But we're not going to go into a deep dive on the story here.

[00:12:36] We're going to be, I think, getting together like in early December to do a deep dive special of the podcast,

[00:12:42] so we'll get into that in more detail.

[00:12:44] But I think just to start off with,

[00:12:47] can you just give a little bit of a summary about,

[00:12:49] like a high-level overview of what the book's about?

[00:12:52] Sure, and if I could divert for a moment.

[00:12:53] Yes.

[00:12:54] I just want to thank both of you for reading the book early and providing some feedback on it.

[00:13:00] It was really helpful.

[00:13:01] And just the relationship we've developed over the years, I'm just, I'm really grateful.

[00:13:06] And also to Reckless for hosting this event for the third year in a row in support of the New Hampshire Outdoor Council.

[00:13:13] I don't think there's, we can do enough for Search and Rescue New Hampshire.

[00:13:17] Just want to take a moment to introduce Chris Thayer.

[00:13:20] He's the president of the New Hampshire Outdoor Council here in the back.

[00:13:24] And all the, yeah, thank you, Chris, for your work and that of the council.

[00:13:29] So, yeah, it's a, at this point in January, it'll be a 43-year-old story.

[00:13:35] It's, as you said, it was a search, multi-day search for two young ice climbers who got lost in Huntington Ravine on Mount Washington,

[00:13:42] who ended up outside of Huntington Ravine.

[00:13:46] And tragically, it was the first time and the last time a member of the volunteer search and rescue community lost their life in the line of duty during the search, Albert Dow.

[00:13:57] So, the story is really about the four-day search, Albert, who he was as a person, the impact that this had not only on the team but his family.

[00:14:06] But it was also a watershed moment for Search and Rescue New Hampshire for many, many reasons, which I get into.

[00:14:13] Yeah, it was fun reading the book.

[00:14:15] And it was, it was, is my mic on still?

[00:14:17] Oh, yeah, there we go.

[00:14:19] It was fun reading the book.

[00:14:21] And I think that it was interesting to me because I, for whatever reason, like I spend a lot of time reading like old Appalachian journals

[00:14:27] and looking at different search and rescue events and just White Mountain history in general.

[00:14:32] And I feel like I keep getting pulled back into that period of the early 80s.

[00:14:35] And I did a, I did an episode with Doug Teschner, who is a member.

[00:14:41] He's part of the AMC and he's written a lot of Appalachian journal entries over the years.

[00:14:45] And there was like a rescue that we covered from, I think, 1983 for Ken Hawkinson and Ali Khashoggi that was right in that same area.

[00:14:55] It was, they slid down from the summit cone, but they ended up in that area right below Huntington Ravine.

[00:15:01] And then, so for me, it's an interesting time period because the rescue infrastructure is very different than what it's like today.

[00:15:10] There's none of the rescue teams.

[00:15:12] It's essentially, it was obviously the AMC crew that worked on Mount Washington.

[00:15:17] It was the Harvard cabin.

[00:15:19] You had people that were involved from the Eastern Mountain Sports Climbing School.

[00:15:22] That basically morphed into the mountain rescue service.

[00:15:26] And then you had the IME involved as well.

[00:15:29] So it was just a very different infrastructure there.

[00:15:31] And I think that the amount of rescues and the high profile rescues and searches that happened around that time period,

[00:15:37] I think pushed the development of more of the larger voluntary search and rescue org.

[00:15:42] So it was just interesting reading about that.

[00:15:44] I don't know if you, obviously you touch on it a little bit in your book,

[00:15:47] but do you have any thoughts about just how that early 80s period evolved into where we're at now?

[00:15:53] Yeah.

[00:15:54] I think what's important, and I try to bring this to light in the book, in 1982, there was no social media.

[00:16:01] There were no beacons.

[00:16:02] There were no GPS units.

[00:16:03] There were no cell phones.

[00:16:05] There wasn't an incident command structure that search managers use today to manage the teams that go out.

[00:16:10] And it was really, AMC was really a driving force in search and rescue back then,

[00:16:19] and they were augmented by Mountain Rescue Service.

[00:16:21] And Mountain Rescue Service at the time was really, if you were a climber and you were in the vicinity,

[00:16:29] you were called upon, if you were trusted and you had the technical experience,

[00:16:34] you were called upon to go out and respond on these calls.

[00:16:38] And when Albert lost his life, at that point, volunteer search and rescue members were not covered by workers' comp insurance,

[00:16:48] and that was really the catalyst for our volunteers to receive coverage if they're injured or worse

[00:16:56] in the course of going out and helping people in the backcountry.

[00:17:00] Yeah.

[00:17:00] Can you talk about the, I guess, getting in touch with some of those people so some of those people are still around?

[00:17:09] Yeah.

[00:17:10] I think if you were to go back and try to find information about what happened on the Internet, it's pretty sparse.

[00:17:18] But what the Internet is really helpful for is finding people.

[00:17:21] And I think I interviewed 70 people, many of whom are still, not only are they still with us, fortunately,

[00:17:31] they're in different parts of the country, but many of them are also still going out on search and rescue calls 43 years later.

[00:17:40] It's pretty amazing.

[00:17:41] Did this turn into like a full-time job for you for a period of time?

[00:17:44] Well, it was almost a three-year project, so there was work, there was family, and then there was writing, and there wasn't much else.

[00:17:53] But we'll talk about that more, I think, in the deep dive for sure.

[00:17:57] Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:58] Can you talk a little bit about, and we'll go into this in the deep dive, but just a high-level Albert Dow, who was he and what was his life like?

[00:18:05] You know, I think when we talk about people who we've lost, we put them on pedestals and for all the right reasons.

[00:18:15] But to a person, in talking with Albert's family, teammates, friends, loved ones, this was an individual who,

[00:18:25] and what I love about this is when you think about the interactions that we have today,

[00:18:30] you might be talking with somebody who's also checking their phone or they're distracted.

[00:18:36] But Albert, to a person, my biggest takeaway from him was presence.

[00:18:42] When you were with him, you felt like you were the most important person.

[00:18:47] He was there to listen to you.

[00:18:49] He was an incredibly supportive friend and teammate.

[00:18:52] He was always there.

[00:18:54] And he made time.

[00:18:56] He made time for the people in his life.

[00:18:58] And in talking with, I had a lot of conversations with his sisters.

[00:19:03] And I can remember asking them, you know, did he have a best friend?

[00:19:09] And they said, Albert didn't have a best friend.

[00:19:13] Everyone was his friend because he wouldn't have wanted to slight anybody else.

[00:19:18] And I think that's just so true from what I've been able to glean from learning about him.

[00:19:24] Yeah, and I'm excited that it's going to be released and everybody can read it and I can actually talk about it

[00:19:29] because it's been sitting on it for about a month or so.

[00:19:31] Well, what do you, can you, I'll switch roles here.

[00:19:34] What did you, what were your takeaways?

[00:19:37] I think for me, the interest, I'm always fascinated about trying to make the assumption.

[00:19:43] Whenever these incidents happen, I'm always interested in trying to make the assumption about,

[00:19:48] okay, if they're, if they climb up to this section here, where are they going to go if they get in trouble in bad weather

[00:19:54] or if they, or they're in a whiteout?

[00:19:55] And I think what's interesting about this story is that they don't go where you think they're going to go.

[00:20:00] And I think that that happens so frequently is you just make these assumptions about like,

[00:20:04] oh, they're going to go down a drainage or they're going to go, you know, they're going to head down.

[00:20:09] And sometimes they don't.

[00:20:10] Sometimes they go into areas where, you know, they'll cover four or five miles away from where they're going to be.

[00:20:14] So I thought that was interesting.

[00:20:16] Um, I found also just the, the interaction on how things get mobilized with, I mean, there's a lot of people in,

[00:20:25] even in the early eighties, there was a lot of people poking around Pinkham Notch, which was helpful.

[00:20:31] But when somebody goes in the direction that you're not expecting, you're looking in the wrong spot.

[00:20:35] But it was pretty cool to think that those people spend the winter, you know, essentially like working up there.

[00:20:42] So there's a, there's a lot of people that are around in that particular area.

[00:20:44] So in theory, you would think like, that's a good area to get lost.

[00:20:47] I mean, you never want to get lost, but you would think, okay, it's a good area to get lost.

[00:20:51] Someone's going to find them quickly, but that's just not the way that it happened.

[00:20:55] Yeah.

[00:20:55] And I, I think, as you mentioned, the AMC community, the Pinkham community, just to go back and do the research of what it was like there,

[00:21:02] they called it, it was Porky Gulch at the time.

[00:21:04] It, there was just this, I don't know, there's this fabric, this ethos that existed there where it didn't matter what you did.

[00:21:13] You could have been working in the dining area or in the maintenance shed doing building furniture.

[00:21:20] But if you got called upon, you went, if you had the skills and it's, it's pretty, pretty remarkable.

[00:21:26] And as you said, the thing about this story is they got into trouble in Huntington going toward the summit.

[00:21:32] They ended up in a place where no one had been before.

[00:21:36] So the search teams were all focused on anyone who had been in trouble in Huntington always or usually goes here.

[00:21:43] They were somewhere completely different.

[00:21:45] This was 43 years ago and it hasn't happened since.

[00:21:51] Distressed climbers in Huntington still haven't ended up where these two ended up.

[00:21:56] And it's been 43 years since that happened.

[00:21:58] That's how rare this was.

[00:22:01] Yeah.

[00:22:01] And I think the other thing I take away is, and we talk about this, you know, there's parallels with Kate Manastrova here, but the, the, the, the, the local knowledge of the mountains is huge.

[00:22:13] Yeah.

[00:22:13] You can be the greatest climber, the greatest hiker ever.

[00:22:16] If you don't know, if you haven't been there and been on that terrain and experienced it in wind and low, low visibility, then it doesn't matter how experienced you are.

[00:22:25] Um, that's why I always tell people if you don't have experience, like hire a guide, go with someone, you know, go on the buddy hike.

[00:22:31] Uh, but like just not knowing the local terrain is, is very dangerous.

[00:22:37] Yeah.

[00:22:38] You can also just hire Scarlett.

[00:22:41] You could.

[00:22:42] You're, you're being great by the way.

[00:22:44] Just, this is a lot to take, to take, isn't it?

[00:22:47] Yeah.

[00:22:47] We're having like an adult conversation here.

[00:22:49] It's a little boring, right?

[00:22:50] Hey, is everybody warm?

[00:22:52] Is the Tempo K or you want some heat?

[00:22:54] Free heat.

[00:22:55] All right.

[00:22:55] Turn that heat on.

[00:22:56] Let's get the heat going.

[00:22:58] All right.

[00:22:58] What's funny about the heat is it's coming out right behind us.

[00:23:01] So it's like a thousand degrees right here.

[00:23:04] Oh, the fans, you want the fans off maybe?

[00:23:07] Oh, that'll circulate the heat.

[00:23:08] So yeah, wherever Phil is, if we can get the heat back on, that'd be fantastic.

[00:23:12] And, uh, all right, we plug along.

[00:23:14] Stomp smells like a Italian sub right now.

[00:23:17] He's like...

[00:23:20] But anyway, Ty, so you'll be back in December.

[00:23:22] We'll do a deep dive.

[00:23:23] But like, was this a good enough teaser?

[00:23:25] Is everyone excited about the book?

[00:23:26] Yeah.

[00:23:27] Thank you.

[00:23:29] Awesome.

[00:23:29] So yeah, you can, you want to hang out for a little while.

[00:23:32] I think I have to.

[00:23:32] Yeah, that's fine.

[00:23:33] Yeah.

[00:23:33] And, and I can tell you that, um, when I read the book, coming at it from like a big movie

[00:23:40] buff or just like somebody that grew up and digested Spielberg's action adventure movies,

[00:23:46] the book really reads like that.

[00:23:49] It has a pace and a tension that is just relentless.

[00:23:52] You know, one thing after another.

[00:23:55] It's absolutely incredible.

[00:23:57] Wonderful effort.

[00:23:58] Thank you.

[00:23:59] Thank you.

[00:24:00] Scarlett, can I ask you to do one more thing for me?

[00:24:08] Have a beer.

[00:24:14] I'll go get you one.

[00:24:16] All right.

[00:24:17] So moving on to, you're a good kid.

[00:24:21] Make good choices.

[00:24:22] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:24:23] You can do that.

[00:24:23] Are we ready?

[00:24:24] I'm ready.

[00:24:31] Slasher's hiking topic of the week.

[00:24:34] So, uh, yeah, we'll kill time while, uh, Mike gets his whole rig going here, but we're

[00:24:44] going to, uh, review some of the latest search and rescue data, data, data.

[00:24:52] Oh my God.

[00:24:55] Yeah, I know.

[00:24:56] Okay.

[00:24:57] Hey, does anybody want to hear Mike say chamide d'am?

[00:25:00] Yeah.

[00:25:01] Yeah.

[00:25:04] All right.

[00:25:05] So, yes, just to review.

[00:25:08] I know this may be a little small, but, um, Mike has his microphone over there and we'll

[00:25:13] just run through this briefly.

[00:25:15] Charging right along.

[00:25:16] So again, thank you all for coming out.

[00:25:18] We have raffles.

[00:25:20] We will be giving, uh, doing the raffle giveaway later.

[00:25:24] And we have a whole bunch of guests coming up.

[00:25:26] It's going to be a lot of fun.

[00:25:28] Um, but this is, wow, look at the crowd, huh?

[00:25:31] Was anybody at the show last year?

[00:25:33] Check, check.

[00:25:34] Okay.

[00:25:35] So this is doubled.

[00:25:36] This is absolutely doubled what it was last year.

[00:25:39] Hey, Stomp, you don't have to kill time anymore.

[00:25:41] I'm good.

[00:25:42] Oh, okay.

[00:25:42] Okay.

[00:25:45] All right.

[00:25:47] How many people like PowerPoint?

[00:25:51] What a bunch of nerds.

[00:25:53] Bunch of nerds.

[00:25:56] Oh yeah, you can.

[00:25:58] Ty's looking at my text here, so.

[00:26:00] Yeah, if you want.

[00:26:01] Um, so just a little background on the, um, history of the podcast here.

[00:26:08] So I've talked about this before, but, um, one of the main reasons I got interested in

[00:26:13] search and rescue was because I like to argue on the internet.

[00:26:17] And, um, we would have these, like I was on Facebook a lot and I've, I've kind of weaned

[00:26:22] myself off a little bit, except I still get involved in the town Facebook page, which is

[00:26:26] hilarious in Amesbury.

[00:26:27] Um, we've got some loony tunes in Amesbury.

[00:26:30] So, right.

[00:26:30] Oh yeah.

[00:26:31] I love the Amesbury crowd.

[00:26:32] Hey, hello.

[00:26:33] That's Stomp's family too.

[00:26:34] So, anyway.

[00:26:36] Um, but people, what would end up happening is that like the, the events would happen

[00:26:42] related to search and rescue.

[00:26:43] And then on the 4,000 footer Facebook page or something like that.

[00:26:46] Someone would come on and they'd be like, search and rescues are out of control.

[00:26:49] We need to start arresting these people.

[00:26:51] And I was always like, are they out of control?

[00:26:52] Like, does anybody track numbers on this stuff?

[00:26:55] So I would go on the internet and I'd be like, well, where's the metrics on this stuff?

[00:26:57] Cause I'm a data guy and there was no metrics.

[00:26:59] So I just was like, well, New Hampshire puts out media related, they put out media new press

[00:27:06] releases so that like somebody could grab those press releases.

[00:27:09] So I started to just collect them.

[00:27:11] And this is in 2019, I started collecting them.

[00:27:14] And then I started like saying like, okay, well, let's look at how old these people are.

[00:27:20] Let's look at their men or women.

[00:27:21] Are they in a group?

[00:27:21] Are they not in the group?

[00:27:22] What was the category of those?

[00:27:25] So anyway, it just became a whole thing.

[00:27:27] And now it's grown into this like data set that I have been collecting.

[00:27:32] So I've got like six years of data on this.

[00:27:34] Now we've got Patrick here.

[00:27:36] So he'll tell you and I'll confirm this, that like, this is just media reports.

[00:27:40] Patrick used to work in Manadnock and he can tell you that there's like a million events

[00:27:45] that will happen for search and rescue on Manadnock.

[00:27:47] And I feel like Mount Major has a bunch of things that go down that people don't track.

[00:27:51] So this isn't all encompassing.

[00:27:53] But the nice thing about this data is that it is pretty close to what you'll see that's

[00:28:02] been tracked since like 2009.

[00:28:04] I've got data back.

[00:28:05] But just to give people a perspective here, in 2020, they have the visitor use survey that

[00:28:14] gets done.

[00:28:15] It gets done every five years by the Forest Service.

[00:28:17] They do it for the White Mountains.

[00:28:19] And in 2020, they had 2.8 million hikers.

[00:28:23] I think it was about 4.5 visit, 4.5 million visitors.

[00:28:26] But out of those 2.8 million hikers, there was 110 media reported incidents in 2020.

[00:28:37] So that basically means one out of about every 25,000 hikers.

[00:28:41] And I think I put some stuff on here.

[00:28:44] I went to chat GPT and I said like, what are the one in 25,000 odds here?

[00:28:49] So yeah, being struck by lightning, dying from accidental drowning, being killed by a fallen

[00:28:55] coconut, penicillin allergy, and then being injured by a toilet.

[00:29:02] I feel like it depends.

[00:29:03] If you're in college, I feel like that's a higher odds.

[00:29:06] So anyway, but just to give people perspective, like most people come back to the car and

[00:29:11] they're okay.

[00:29:12] So, but you can see here too, this is just basically like total events for the last six

[00:29:16] years.

[00:29:17] So you've got events and then you've got people.

[00:29:19] So you can see the difference here is essentially you'll have like, sometimes you'll get groups

[00:29:24] that are in trouble and I'll talk about that a little bit.

[00:29:26] Like a lot of college groups, a lot of Ivy League kids coming up to New Hampshire and

[00:29:30] getting in trouble.

[00:29:31] So, but you'll see it's, it's pretty steady.

[00:29:34] The media reports, it's slowed down a little bit.

[00:29:37] And I will say for 2024, I haven't done November or December, but it gives you a pretty good

[00:29:42] sense.

[00:29:42] And then I looked at this and I was like, how close is this to like what fishing game

[00:29:46] tracks?

[00:29:47] So fishing game does have some numbers they pulled.

[00:29:49] So I was able to get a report from fishing game from 2009 to 2019.

[00:29:55] There was about 1200 missions that they had reported to the state government.

[00:30:01] And I think it's like, basically like there's more missions that are involved in like snowmobiling

[00:30:05] and other things, but about 62% of their search and rescue missions were related to hiking.

[00:30:10] It comes to be about an average of 119 search and rescue missions per year.

[00:30:14] So that's pretty close to the numbers that I'm pulling on my media events.

[00:30:19] But again, these are the more high profile events.

[00:30:22] There's a whole, I feel like Monadnock's a good example.

[00:30:25] I feel like the lakes region, probably Kim can reference this.

[00:30:28] Like I think there's a lot of rescues that go down around there that are handled by local

[00:30:32] fire departments.

[00:30:33] And then there's probably a lot of stuff on like the moats and things like that that

[00:30:37] are handled by local North Conway and things like that.

[00:30:39] So it's not all encompassing, but these, it's a pretty good reflection of what you'll

[00:30:44] see for numbers on an annual basis.

[00:30:46] And they don't change that much.

[00:30:48] So if you hear people saying like search and rescue numbers are spiking and things like that,

[00:30:52] they don't change too much.

[00:30:54] What does change is that the type of rescues that go on, my understanding is, you know,

[00:30:58] one or two rescues that involve a two or three day search can blow the budget.

[00:31:02] So the budget is completely different from the numbers when you're talking about this.

[00:31:07] So if you have a couple of high profile events, then the budget gets blown.

[00:31:10] And that's why we always want to think about giving money to the outdoor council.

[00:31:14] And if you're local to New Hampshire, pushing your Congress or your local legislatures to

[00:31:20] fund it.

[00:31:22] The headlines here, I'll show some graphs and stuff like that.

[00:31:25] But the headlines here is there's really no secret patterns.

[00:31:28] Search and rescue calls are relatively rare.

[00:31:30] About half of them are lower leg injuries.

[00:31:33] And then there's a lot that involve headlamps and no maps.

[00:31:36] Young people tend to get in trouble a little bit more.

[00:31:39] When you look at fatalities, it's always sad to talk about fatalities, but they do happen.

[00:31:44] Very heavily skewed male.

[00:31:46] And I have a slide that covers that.

[00:31:48] But it's very heavily skewed male.

[00:31:51] What I've seen lately is it's older men.

[00:31:53] So we'll talk about that.

[00:31:54] Some of the takeaways for that.

[00:31:57] The 10 essentials, I always say, you know, I'm getting old too.

[00:32:00] I'm in my 50s.

[00:32:01] So I will talk about that.

[00:32:02] But the 10 essentials, I say bring them along, but also bring a splint and a wrap and know

[00:32:07] how to use it.

[00:32:08] Because not all of these lower leg injuries are going to be ones that you can self-rescue

[00:32:14] on.

[00:32:15] And me and Stomp always want to be careful about encouraging people to self-rescue.

[00:32:18] If you get in trouble, call.

[00:32:20] But if you have a splint and a wrap and you've blown your ankle out, sometimes you can, you

[00:32:25] know, if you're a mile away, you can splint it up, hobble out, and you're in good shape.

[00:32:29] One headlamp is no headlamp.

[00:32:31] Bring two headlamps just so that you have it.

[00:32:33] And then think in terms of being a good Samaritan.

[00:32:35] I feel like Stomp talks about this all the time.

[00:32:37] Like, we'll hear about people that are on Franconia Ridge that missed their timing.

[00:32:41] You got two headlamps.

[00:32:43] The hiking buddies give out headlamps for people so that they have extras.

[00:32:46] Give those headlamps to the clueless hikers.

[00:32:48] We all have a clue.

[00:32:50] We're here.

[00:32:51] Those other hikers, they don't know what's going on.

[00:32:53] So give them a headlamp.

[00:32:54] And, you know, like I said, pack like a good Samaritan.

[00:32:57] Also keep in mind, three to six hour wait in good weather.

[00:33:01] In winter, I say 10 essentials plus a sleeping pad, hot liquid, and a bivy.

[00:33:06] Basically, in the winter, if you get in trouble, you do not want to sit directly on the ground.

[00:33:11] You've got to take a sleeping pad.

[00:33:13] I say take a closed cell sleeping pad.

[00:33:15] That's going to buy you, hopefully, if you have a bivy.

[00:33:17] You can probably hang out for 12 hours, even in bad weather if you're below treeline.

[00:33:22] And I always bring, I had a situation where a buddy of mine got in a hypothermia situation.

[00:33:27] We were trying to heat up food, get it into him, couldn't do it.

[00:33:30] We finally were able to heat up water.

[00:33:32] And it was like he went from delusional screaming to absolutely fine the second we got the water in him.

[00:33:40] So I actually make it a practice during day hiking.

[00:33:42] Now, I just, it's heavier.

[00:33:44] I bring a thermos with hot chocolate.

[00:33:46] And if somebody's in trouble and I run into them, it's going to be immediate help because they're going to have that hot liquid.

[00:33:53] No when to turn around.

[00:33:54] There's no art to that.

[00:33:55] That just comes with experience.

[00:33:57] Older men, I say cardiac checkups and scans.

[00:33:59] There's a thing called Lifeline scan that you can just go online.

[00:34:03] It's a couple hundred bucks.

[00:34:04] You can go get your carotid artery scanned.

[00:34:06] You can get everything checked out.

[00:34:08] So if you have any blockage and then make sure you're talking to your primary care physician about stress tests and stuff like that.

[00:34:14] If you feel any weirdness with your heart or your arms or things like that, get in there and talk about it because that does happen.

[00:34:21] And then figuring out a balance, you know, you're out there.

[00:34:24] I always tell people, mind your business.

[00:34:26] Don't worry about what other people are doing.

[00:34:27] If they're playing music, then maybe you give them a side eye.

[00:34:30] But I mostly mind my business.

[00:34:32] But when somebody needs help, like I had a situation on Franconia a couple of weeks ago where a guy was like, I want to get back to the parking lot, but I don't want to go back the way I came.

[00:34:41] And we were like right above Cloudland Falls.

[00:34:43] And I said, sir, you got to turn around.

[00:34:45] I'm like, it's seven miles to get to the parking lot.

[00:34:47] So you got to figure out that balance.

[00:34:49] But those are the headlines from this data.

[00:34:53] And then this is just a quick slide that shows like a more detailed version of the visitor information.

[00:34:59] So people ask like, oh, White Mountains is getting more crowded.

[00:35:02] Yep, it is.

[00:35:03] You know, it's growing pretty good.

[00:35:05] Next year will be the next visitor use monitoring program that will be coming out and that will give us new numbers.

[00:35:11] I suspect that that 2.8 million is going to bump up.

[00:35:15] And then you can see the mix here.

[00:35:16] More women getting out there.

[00:35:18] A little bit more diversity.

[00:35:20] And then hikers got money.

[00:35:22] So why aren't you all giving me coffees?

[00:35:24] Let's go.

[00:35:26] All right.

[00:35:27] So I think I did the high income.

[00:35:28] It takes income levels.

[00:35:30] So I just figured like I'll just total up the rich people.

[00:35:34] So I love data.

[00:35:35] I'm a data geek.

[00:35:36] So I apologize.

[00:35:38] Hotspots.

[00:35:39] There's no surprises here.

[00:35:40] Franconia Ridge, Mount Washington, Chikora, Monadnock, Major, and Moats.

[00:35:45] I've got a little asterisk there because it ties back to what I'm talking about.

[00:35:48] Is that there's more going on there than what's in the media.

[00:35:50] I suspect Monadnock is probably the busiest of all of them.

[00:35:54] So.

[00:35:55] And then the ultimate question.

[00:35:57] Who is the worst person in the world?

[00:36:00] Is it Massachusetts or New Hampshire?

[00:36:01] And of course, the mass holes win.

[00:36:05] All right.

[00:36:06] So I will say, though, this year.

[00:36:09] Shame.

[00:36:11] Shame.

[00:36:12] Shame.

[00:36:12] Yeah.

[00:36:12] So I will say this year, there's a couple of more rescues that we need to capture in

[00:36:17] November and December.

[00:36:18] There's only like, I think it's like 27 in Massachusetts for this year and 24 in New Hampshire.

[00:36:23] So if a few more New Hampshire people get in trouble, they may surpass Massachusetts.

[00:36:30] So anyway, those are the hot spots.

[00:36:34] Yes.

[00:36:34] Oh, based on population.

[00:36:36] Then yeah, New Hampshire's OK.

[00:36:37] They're OK.

[00:36:38] A couple of noteworthy cases here or some of the noteworthy cases.

[00:36:42] The two things that always stand out to me are there's young people in groups.

[00:36:45] And this pretty this happens pretty consistently.

[00:36:48] And, you know, you have a mix of like grad students that are coming up from Boston and

[00:36:53] then you've got a mix of just people that are just out in different groups.

[00:36:56] So there was a case on the Bulls Trail in I think that's Chakora.

[00:37:00] There was seven Cambridge grad students that got in trouble.

[00:37:03] West Webster Cliff.

[00:37:05] I think that they they dealt with some heat issues.

[00:37:08] Grad students on the Black Angel Trail up by I think that's the back end of the carters

[00:37:13] there.

[00:37:14] Crawford Ridgepole.

[00:37:15] We got five UMass students lost.

[00:37:17] And then most recently we had four young people.

[00:37:20] There was like a 27 year old group leader and he had three teenagers and they decided

[00:37:25] to send descend the flume slide in icy weather.

[00:37:28] They had to call for a rescue.

[00:37:30] So that that one didn't work out very well for them.

[00:37:33] And then we had four in 2022.

[00:37:35] There was four New York teenagers.

[00:37:37] Very common situation.

[00:37:38] They missed the turn down Greenleaf.

[00:37:40] They ended up at Garfield Pond and chaos ensued.

[00:37:44] So that's the way it goes.

[00:37:46] And then the other thing that you'll get is these crazy days.

[00:37:49] Stomp will talk about this sometimes.

[00:37:50] And this is where you get that feedback where people will say, oh, search and rescues are

[00:37:55] really spiking because you've got these crazy clusters.

[00:37:57] And they do happen.

[00:37:59] And we had a couple of them this year where there was four rescues on July 4th.

[00:38:04] And you'll see Fish and Game will put out these notices to say like, you know, multiple rescues.

[00:38:09] So there was two separate on Franconia.

[00:38:11] There was one on Mount Tom and one on Mount Monadnock.

[00:38:15] And then Andy's going to be here.

[00:38:17] We're going to talk about this day a little bit.

[00:38:18] February 2nd, there was a rescue on Welsh Sticky.

[00:38:21] There was another incident on Mount Avalon.

[00:38:23] I think that that was a sledding incident that went wrong.

[00:38:26] And then there was a cog-assisted rescue that Andy will talk about with me in a little while.

[00:38:31] So the clusters do happen.

[00:38:33] So young people in groups do tend to get in trouble.

[00:38:36] And then we get these crazy days.

[00:38:39] I talked about some of these noteworthy cases here.

[00:38:42] So the cog rescue we'll talk about.

[00:38:44] There was another hypothermic hiker from Kentucky that was injured and unprepared in ammo.

[00:38:50] That one ended up in the cog parking lot as well.

[00:38:53] We had another one that came through, was that October 2024?

[00:38:58] I may have the date wrong on that one.

[00:39:00] But the California hiker was in Huntington Ravine.

[00:39:02] And then a few older ones.

[00:39:04] It was a grandfather-grandson on Lion's Head.

[00:39:07] This was an interesting situation.

[00:39:09] It's like, what do you do?

[00:39:10] The grandfather was not doing well.

[00:39:12] The grandson went and found a rescue.

[00:39:14] And they both survived, but it was pretty close.

[00:39:17] One of my favorites here is the Snowbridge Collapse.

[00:39:19] So I think somebody went and tried to get a selfie on the snow bridge on Tuckerman.

[00:39:24] And the timing didn't work out for him.

[00:39:26] But he did survive.

[00:39:28] And then, you know, you get these, a hiker called for a rescue just below Mount Washington.

[00:39:33] I think Patrick might have some things to share with us about that stuff.

[00:39:37] Basically, he called for a rescue.

[00:39:39] Everybody activates for a rescue.

[00:39:41] And then he just heads back to his car and never calls back the rescuers.

[00:39:44] So, fun stuff.

[00:39:48] And this is just a metric about like the, this is an average per month.

[00:39:52] So this is of the last six years or so.

[00:39:54] So you can see August, September, October, pretty busy July.

[00:39:59] And then this is just basically a breakdown of the busy season.

[00:40:03] So it's, and these are media reports.

[00:40:05] Again, there's more going on here.

[00:40:06] But this gives you a pretty good idea of the patterns.

[00:40:08] And then you can see spikes, a little bit of spikes.

[00:40:10] But it's pretty consistent over time.

[00:40:16] So 2020 seemed to be a busier year for sure.

[00:40:20] And then this is category here.

[00:40:22] So I don't know, Ty, if you want to pull that down a little bit.

[00:40:24] But that far left is lower leg injury.

[00:40:26] And then you've got like, I've got map light panic.

[00:40:30] That's basically anybody that's got lost and they're calling and they're just saying,

[00:40:34] look, I can't get there.

[00:40:35] Then you've got miscellaneous head, shoulder, other.

[00:40:37] A lot of times you'll have people that will slip.

[00:40:39] It happens in franconia a lot.

[00:40:40] They'll hit their head, their shoulder, whatever.

[00:40:43] Then you've got the reckless behavior.

[00:40:45] This is subjective.

[00:40:46] I basically decide this.

[00:40:48] And as you can see, what I've done over the last few years is like,

[00:40:52] I think in the beginning I was like, no headlamp is reckless.

[00:40:54] And now I've gotten nicer.

[00:40:56] I've just gotten softer over the years.

[00:40:58] So then you've got medical issues and then fatigue.

[00:41:01] Those two tend to bleed into each other.

[00:41:04] But I differentiate them because usually in the search and rescue media events,

[00:41:09] they will differentiate between them.

[00:41:12] One cool thing, by the way, on this is I typically do this over the course of a weekend.

[00:41:16] It takes me like two days to go through 100 media reports.

[00:41:19] This time I actually use ChatGBT.

[00:41:21] And I built the table structure in ChatGBT, gave it the instructions for each of the columns,

[00:41:27] and then just loaded in all the articles.

[00:41:29] And it just built the table for me.

[00:41:31] I can see that the nerds are shaking their heads.

[00:41:33] They know what I'm talking about.

[00:41:35] There's not many nerds in here, but it was awesome.

[00:41:37] Like ChatGBT is amazing.

[00:41:39] So it took me like an hour for what would normally take me two days.

[00:41:44] Men versus women here.

[00:41:45] So you can see not much of a difference here.

[00:41:48] The key takeaway, I think, on this one is that the guys just can't let it go when they get old.

[00:41:53] They just can't let it go.

[00:41:55] Right?

[00:41:56] Right?

[00:41:56] So, but, you know, it's pretty even across the genders until you get into,

[00:42:00] I feel like this 40-something here, like, you know, the balance on the ladies might get a little off, I think.

[00:42:06] But, you know, a lot of lower injuries, lower leg injuries,

[00:42:08] and then you get more of the reckless stuff with the young men is what I see.

[00:42:13] And then this is just by age.

[00:42:15] So you can see here.

[00:42:16] This is a difference between negligent and non-negligent.

[00:42:19] Again, this is my subjective view on these, but you can sort of see, like, yeah,

[00:42:24] the young people are typically the ones that I'm saying, like, oh, they're pretty negligent.

[00:42:28] And then you can see most of the other ones are pretty good.

[00:42:31] So, then this is seasonal here.

[00:42:35] Obviously, no surprise here.

[00:42:36] You've got summer and fall and spring are pretty even.

[00:42:39] Winter's pretty slow.

[00:42:40] If you want to limit your options for needing a rescue, hike on a Wednesday.

[00:42:46] Stay away from Saturday.

[00:42:47] I think that's good advice.

[00:42:51] And then a lot of times people will say, like, hiking by themselves is dangerous.

[00:42:56] All right?

[00:42:56] Well, it's search and rescue data says otherwise.

[00:42:59] All right?

[00:43:01] So, anyway, going with a group is dangerous.

[00:43:03] Go by yourself.

[00:43:04] No one wants to hang out with you.

[00:43:07] All right?

[00:43:08] And then this is the last piece of data here.

[00:43:10] I thought this was interesting.

[00:43:11] I pulled this off of the Wikipedia page on Mount Washington.

[00:43:15] So, this is a century plus of Mount Washington fatalities.

[00:43:20] And then the table that's in Wikipedia, they give you the age of the people that had experienced death on Mount Washington.

[00:43:26] And you can see this is basically the average age across the decades.

[00:43:30] So, you can see that young people.

[00:43:33] I feel like there's a – we always knock social media around how it's like, oh, it gives people too much, like, information.

[00:43:40] And they feel comfortable doing things.

[00:43:41] I do think that there's a flip side to that where I do think that maybe young people realize, like, hey, this is serious business.

[00:43:47] And I shouldn't mess around.

[00:43:48] So, maybe that's what's happening.

[00:43:50] But, yeah, it's interesting to see this data that shows the average age by decade of people that have fatalities on Mount Washington has gone up significantly.

[00:43:59] It's crazy.

[00:44:00] Like, in the 1940s, 1950s, it's like 17, 18, 19 years old.

[00:44:04] I think that, like, over time, people started to really realize how dangerous it was.

[00:44:11] This is a little bit of a breakdown on fatalities.

[00:44:14] I didn't – I did not pull the 2024 numbers, unfortunately.

[00:44:19] And, obviously, this is a sad thing to think about.

[00:44:21] But, you know, I broke down the season.

[00:44:25] The, you know, the age category is pretty – it's older people a lot of times.

[00:44:29] And then you can see the breakdown male to female.

[00:44:32] A lot of medical issues, obviously.

[00:44:34] So, again, I stress to people, get your heart health checked.

[00:44:38] Make sure that you're having those discussions with your doctors.

[00:44:40] Take it seriously.

[00:44:41] Listen to your body.

[00:44:42] And get that life scan because I think that that scan can really help.

[00:44:50] Unresolved crimes here.

[00:44:51] So, we've got some in the White Mountains.

[00:44:53] I keep track of these.

[00:44:54] So, 1977, Sherry Roth is an unsolved murder.

[00:44:59] She lived in North Conway.

[00:45:01] She was hiking in Sawyer Brook Trail in Livermore.

[00:45:04] She did not return and was reported missing by her friends, and her body was recovered.

[00:45:09] A couple days later, strangulation.

[00:45:13] I'm not sure if there's any DNA data on this one.

[00:45:15] It's possible.

[00:45:16] If there's any DNA on these, they can do some more research to potentially find evidence.

[00:45:23] Pamela Webb was a case in 89 that she was driving, and Mason, New Hampshire, disappeared.

[00:45:30] Her car was located.

[00:45:32] There were signs of struggle.

[00:45:34] So, she was discovered in Franconia, and her death was a result of a homicide.

[00:45:40] So, that one has not been solved.

[00:45:43] Luis Chaput.

[00:45:43] This is one that happened right in Pinkham Notch.

[00:45:46] She had been hiking.

[00:45:48] She was staying at Pinkham Notch.

[00:45:50] She went to check in.

[00:45:51] She got advice on, like, a nice short hike.

[00:45:54] She went down to, what is that, Unknown Pond?

[00:45:58] And then she connected with Glen Boulder Trail and ran into somebody that had bad intentions,

[00:46:04] and unfortunately, she was found deceased.

[00:46:06] Her backpack has never been found.

[00:46:08] It's a blue backpack with a Canadian patch on it.

[00:46:12] But I don't know.

[00:46:13] There's been some podcasts in French language that have talked about this case.

[00:46:16] I don't speak French.

[00:46:17] I've always been curious to know if they found DNA in the murder scene.

[00:46:20] If they did, they might be able to do some analysis now with genetic or genetic DNA.

[00:46:27] They can connect killers through genealogy, I think is what it is.

[00:46:31] And then last but not least, Mara Murray.

[00:46:33] We've talked about that one.

[00:46:34] And she's never been found, and it's a pretty high-profile murder case there.

[00:46:41] And then next, missing people in the White Mountains here.

[00:46:44] So there's a couple that track back to the early 1900s, but mostly this is the list of three people that have never been found.

[00:46:53] So Kevin Race, this one's interesting.

[00:46:55] He was in a business dispute with his business partner.

[00:46:59] There was an embezzlement situation.

[00:47:01] I think that he got found guilty.

[00:47:03] He had a big bill coming, and he was going to court for that.

[00:47:07] And then he had left a note in the Pinkham Notch parking lot looking for his final resting place.

[00:47:12] Some people speculate that he went off to a nice Caribbean island.

[00:47:16] Some people say he's on the mountain.

[00:47:17] We don't know.

[00:47:19] So Stefan Poritzu is a young man, 2019.

[00:47:22] He was from Lowell or Westford, I think.

[00:47:24] And he went missing, and his car was found in Pinkham Notch.

[00:47:30] There was a cell phone hit like a day or two after he was reported missing down in Westford.

[00:47:36] Supposedly, he got into an argument with his father.

[00:47:38] They have him purchasing some hiking equipment.

[00:47:42] There's no evidence that this guy ever did any hiking or any winter hiking.

[00:47:45] So I've read many different things on this case.

[00:47:50] Half of me thinks that there's no chance he's on the mountain and that whatever happened happened down in Lowell.

[00:47:55] And the other half's like, who knows?

[00:47:57] So anyway.

[00:47:59] And then the last one is Michael Miller.

[00:48:01] Michael Miller, 1983.

[00:48:02] He went hiking in October with two of his friends.

[00:48:05] None of them were experienced.

[00:48:06] He's an MIT student.

[00:48:08] And hiked up Old Bridal Trail.

[00:48:11] He went up about a half a mile to the U-turn or the 90-degree turn.

[00:48:15] He decided to cut into the woods.

[00:48:17] He had a camera with him.

[00:48:20] And he was yelling to his friends.

[00:48:22] The two friends went up to Greenleaf.

[00:48:24] They stayed on trail.

[00:48:25] They were communicating with the U-turn a little bit.

[00:48:27] They lost communication.

[00:48:29] Nobody saw him, and he hasn't been seen since.

[00:48:31] It activated a huge seven-day rescue.

[00:48:34] Unfortunately, the night he went missing, a huge snowstorm blew in.

[00:48:38] But they had a huge, huge rescue for this case.

[00:48:41] He was never found.

[00:48:43] I did do a write-up on this and read it.

[00:48:46] And his sister reached out to me and did say that he was carrying a 35-millimeter camera.

[00:48:51] And she feels like if anything's remained, it would be that camera.

[00:48:54] So who knows?

[00:48:55] I think maybe he – I think two things.

[00:48:58] Either he went under the agonies and he got stuck in there.

[00:49:00] Or maybe he did cross the trail and ended up in Lafayette Brook.

[00:49:03] But you never know.

[00:49:04] People don't go where you assume they go.

[00:49:07] So they did grid search the whole area, and he was never found.

[00:49:12] But that's it.

[00:49:13] You know, this is just notes on data that I have.

[00:49:15] But I figured this would be interesting.

[00:49:17] Was this interesting or was this boring?

[00:49:20] All right.

[00:49:21] All right.

[00:49:22] All right.

[00:49:23] So, yeah, I'll put this online, and then people can access this.

[00:49:28] But I thought that it would be cool to share.

[00:49:29] And I don't know, Ty, do you have any impressions?

[00:49:32] Any impressions on the data?

[00:49:36] Put you on the spot?

[00:49:37] Yeah, a little bit.

[00:49:38] Yeah.

[00:49:38] Do you have any?

[00:49:41] Just impressive.

[00:49:42] Impressive.

[00:49:43] Yeah, I do care.

[00:49:43] It was really – I think what's helpful that you put up there, we see media accounts,

[00:49:50] and we think this happens all the time.

[00:49:51] But there are hundreds of thousands of people that go into the mountains that come out safely.

[00:49:55] And I think that data point in particular is really, really important in terms of how we perceive these things.

[00:50:03] So thank you.

[00:50:05] We all know that hiking a mountain can be hard at times.

[00:50:09] So here's a corny dad joke to help you get over it.

[00:50:14] Ba-dum-bum.

[00:50:17] Next up, we have Ken Bossie doing a comedy set.

[00:50:27] So Ken Bossie has joined us.

[00:50:30] He's been on the episode – I forget what number it was, but sometime maybe like the first year, second year.

[00:50:36] And Ken is a pastor, an author.

[00:50:40] He writes – he's a self-proclaimed humorist.

[00:50:43] But last year he joined us for the Full Conditions event and just absolutely killed it.

[00:50:48] It was just really fun.

[00:50:50] So we have him back.

[00:50:52] And he's going to tell us what's new.

[00:50:56] Hi, everybody.

[00:50:57] Hi.

[00:50:59] If you haven't read one of my three books, you can just go now.

[00:51:03] So I'm just kind of wondering what's even happening right now.

[00:51:07] I mean, like, let's talk about every person that died the most horrific death possible up in the White Mountains.

[00:51:13] And then Ken can tell some jokes.

[00:51:17] So it's kind of like, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Holocaust Museum.

[00:51:22] Now Ken's going to come up and tell some jokes.

[00:51:25] So just go ahead and say Ken's a jerk.

[00:51:27] And that way I won't feel bad about insulting any of you.

[00:51:31] Because I'm going to try to offend everybody here tonight, if that's okay.

[00:51:33] Usually I make a lot of jokes about myself.

[00:51:35] And I'm like, I'm done with that.

[00:51:36] I'm going to make fun of other people.

[00:51:38] So I'm working on a fourth book right now.

[00:51:41] And it should be hopefully out next year.

[00:51:45] And I just, you know, I find it amazing that I've written three books for the hiking community, working on a fourth book for the hiking community.

[00:51:52] And it was never on my radar at all.

[00:51:54] But as I look back, I can see where it began.

[00:51:57] All the girls that I asked out in high school all told me to take a hike.

[00:52:02] And that's where it began.

[00:52:04] But then I found my wife, Darlene, and she's an angel.

[00:52:07] There is very few things that annoy my wife, Darlene, and I'm very proud to be one of them.

[00:52:13] And she'll vouch for that, too.

[00:52:15] So if you were here last year, you're seeing a lot less of me because I lost like another 25 pounds this year.

[00:52:21] And thank you very much.

[00:52:23] It was difficult.

[00:52:24] And so, yeah, I'm very happy about that.

[00:52:27] My goal was to just not end up in the fat scooter in Walmart.

[00:52:30] You know what I'm saying?

[00:52:31] You know, you've seen the fat scooters.

[00:52:33] You know, 600-pound guy.

[00:52:34] And then I got the little toggle switch.

[00:52:38] And that thing goes like one mile an hour, right?

[00:52:40] You know?

[00:52:41] Don't let that fool you.

[00:52:42] When it gets close to the Twinkie aisle, it'll hit 35 miles an hour.

[00:52:46] Hand down.

[00:52:47] I've actually seen a lady, 500 pounds, one aisle away from the Twinkie aisle.

[00:52:51] That sucker popped a wheelie, burned rubber, hit 35.

[00:52:56] And just recently, I was in the Walmart in Epping, New Hampshire.

[00:52:59] And I kid you not, over the loudspeaker, fatality in aisle seven.

[00:53:02] Fatality.

[00:53:03] Family of four.

[00:53:04] They never saw her coming.

[00:53:07] She hit 40 miles an hour.

[00:53:08] Poor little Billy, seven years old.

[00:53:10] He ended up in the freezer section.

[00:53:11] Little Susie ended up in produce.

[00:53:13] It was just horrible.

[00:53:15] It was just really horrible.

[00:53:16] So, but anyways, it's a lot of fun.

[00:53:18] And, you know, it's great.

[00:53:19] And I'm so glad to be here tonight.

[00:53:22] I want to thank Reckless Brewery and the podcast, Slasher podcast.

[00:53:27] The Outdoor Council.

[00:53:30] What is an outdoor council?

[00:53:33] I'm still trying to figure that out.

[00:53:34] Like, do they have council meetings outdoors?

[00:53:37] I mean, maybe they should be called the Indoor Council.

[00:53:40] I don't know.

[00:53:41] Because I've actually seen an outdoor council.

[00:53:43] I was at the trailhead of Appalachia.

[00:53:45] And have you ever seen the map of the trailhead there?

[00:53:47] It looks like it was drawn by somebody with Parkinson's.

[00:53:50] It was like, there's like 50 million trails, right?

[00:53:53] And the outdoor council that I saw was 20, like 10, 20-year-olds from Massachusetts.

[00:54:00] And they got a map up and they were like, they were having an outdoor council.

[00:54:03] I always like to be helpful, you know.

[00:54:05] And so I walked up to them and I'm like, guys, what's going on?

[00:54:08] And they're like, well, we don't know what trail to take.

[00:54:10] And I'm like, well, where are you going?

[00:54:12] They said Mount Moosalock.

[00:54:16] I said, just take the airline trail.

[00:54:17] You'll get there.

[00:54:19] That's the way to go.

[00:54:20] And so I'm a little bit concerned about doing a presentation in a brewery in northern New Hampshire.

[00:54:28] Because, come on, you guys got to know you got a reputation, right?

[00:54:30] I mean, like, northern New Hampshire is the literal hold my beer and watch this location.

[00:54:35] Like, AA has moved their regional office up to northern New Hampshire.

[00:54:40] Right?

[00:54:40] Like, you don't even realize.

[00:54:41] Like, people in Ireland go to mass and light candles for people in northern New Hampshire.

[00:54:46] So I'm going to do an impersonation.

[00:54:48] I'm not really good at impersonations.

[00:54:49] But I was up on, you know, Tripoli Road goes out to the Osceola's real long.

[00:54:53] I was on Tripoli Road and I met a guy and I'm going to try to do an impersonation.

[00:55:00] Do you know why I pulled you over?

[00:55:03] I mean, there's a problem there.

[00:55:05] It was a fishing game.

[00:55:06] It was Lieutenant Nealon.

[00:55:08] I'm like, James, come on, get in my truck, buddy.

[00:55:10] I'll take you home.

[00:55:11] Come on.

[00:55:11] It was just really sad.

[00:55:15] I got to address some facts, too.

[00:55:17] Because when I started hiking, I was 60 pounds heavier than I am now.

[00:55:21] So I carried 60 pounds of sludge up every one of them frigging 48 mountains, right,

[00:55:26] to get this little $4 patch that I'm extremely proud about.

[00:55:29] Like, I go around like, see that?

[00:55:32] People don't even know what it is.

[00:55:32] I'm like, see that?

[00:55:34] And then we had this little girl up here.

[00:55:37] Like, what's happening right now?

[00:55:40] 40-year-old girl does the 48.

[00:55:42] And I'm like, okay, what's mom putting in the sippy cup?

[00:55:46] Right?

[00:55:46] Like, I'm pretty sure it's half Red Bull and half steroids.

[00:55:50] I met her up on Carter Dome, I kid you not.

[00:55:53] And I said, hi, sweetie, how are you?

[00:55:54] And she goes, I like Paw Patrol.

[00:55:57] I was like, holy smokes.

[00:55:59] Have a beer, work for Fish and Game.

[00:56:01] I mean, you know.

[00:56:03] And how about Tara Dower?

[00:56:06] Wow!

[00:56:08] The Appalachian Trail in 40 days, 13 hours, and five minutes?

[00:56:12] Wow, it's crazy.

[00:56:14] What's with the five minutes?

[00:56:16] I mean, like, who cares at that point, right?

[00:56:18] Like, that's insane.

[00:56:20] And you know what the thing is?

[00:56:21] Is it was unnecessary.

[00:56:25] It was unnecessary.

[00:56:26] I know her boyfriend in the wife-beater t-shirt.

[00:56:28] He stopped chasing her in Pennsylvania.

[00:56:31] She didn't need to do the whole thing.

[00:56:33] Come on, let's be real.

[00:56:34] So it's just crazy.

[00:56:34] So I got a call by a girl by the name of Casey.

[00:56:37] And she said, hey, I read all your books.

[00:56:40] I laughed my head off.

[00:56:40] I'm working on the 48.

[00:56:42] Would you meet me?

[00:56:43] And so she said, I have friends that I visit that live right next to you.

[00:56:47] Would you come over for coffee?

[00:56:48] And I'm like, sure.

[00:56:49] So I met Casey.

[00:56:50] Casey is an 11-year pancreatic cancer survivor.

[00:56:54] And she's giving cancer the finger by hiking the 48 mountains, right?

[00:56:58] So she says, my friend Lori, who goes with me, we want you to hike with us.

[00:57:02] Would you hike with us?

[00:57:03] And I'm like, of course I would.

[00:57:05] And so she says, well, great.

[00:57:06] So we're going to do the Kinsmans.

[00:57:07] That's the next one that she needed to do.

[00:57:09] We're going to do the Kinsmans.

[00:57:10] And she goes, I just want to let you know, I had the Whipple procedure.

[00:57:13] And so nothing in my digestive tract works well anymore.

[00:57:17] When I got to go, I got to go right then and there.

[00:57:20] So we took separate cars.

[00:57:24] I don't mind vacuuming the floors, but I don't want to start cleaning upholstery.

[00:57:27] You know what I'm saying?

[00:57:28] So we start hiking.

[00:57:29] And they get out of their car.

[00:57:31] Like, I really just didn't.

[00:57:32] So when they both got out of their car, they're like this high.

[00:57:35] Like both Casey and Lori, like this.

[00:57:37] I'm like, are you midgets?

[00:57:39] And they started laughing.

[00:57:40] They go, why would you say that?

[00:57:41] And I said, well, I want to tell you some jokes.

[00:57:42] And I don't want them going over your head.

[00:57:44] I mean, that's just wrong, right?

[00:57:48] So anyways, and I don't want to make fun of midgets.

[00:57:51] But I was at the Skookumchuck Trailhead.

[00:57:53] And I opened the door to my truck and accidentally hit a car.

[00:57:57] And this midget came running out of his car right in front of my truck.

[00:57:59] And he said, I'm not happy right now.

[00:58:01] And I said, well, which one are you?

[00:58:06] That's not even funny.

[00:58:09] I don't have anything against midgets.

[00:58:11] I actually hired one once.

[00:58:12] He kept getting me in trouble with the IRS, though, because I was paying him under the table.

[00:58:18] Stop it.

[00:58:19] Stop it.

[00:58:20] I saw somebody in Manchester, though, that pickpocketed a midget.

[00:58:23] Like, who would stoop so low?

[00:58:25] It's just, it's really wrong.

[00:58:27] And we shouldn't do that.

[00:58:28] But anyway, so we hike the Kinsmans.

[00:58:31] And we're having a blast.

[00:58:32] And then Lori goes like, I mean, Casey coming down.

[00:58:36] You know, the Kinsmans is one of those, like, what is it, three and a half miles up and then 35 miles down.

[00:58:40] You know, it's like, her knees were hurting her.

[00:58:42] She's tired.

[00:58:43] She's in pain.

[00:58:44] She's getting grumpy.

[00:58:45] But the next thing I know, I hear like this barrage of profanity.

[00:58:49] And I turn around.

[00:58:50] And there she's cursing her hiking poles because they kept getting stuck in the roots, you know.

[00:58:55] And so I was like, wow, a little while later, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:58:59] She's cursing her strap that holds her glasses on.

[00:59:01] That broke.

[00:59:02] And then a little bit later, she's like, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:59:04] And it's like her straps on her backpack were not adjusted right now.

[00:59:07] And I'm looking at her.

[00:59:08] I'm like, dear Lord, it's like a midget female me.

[00:59:11] Like, I'm the one that does all that complaining, right?

[00:59:13] So me being me, it's like I look down trail and I said, hey, there's the parking.

[00:59:17] Oh, no, never mind.

[00:59:19] And her friend Lori came up to me.

[00:59:20] She says, don't do that.

[00:59:21] She'll run you through with her hiking pole.

[00:59:24] I was like, yeah, if she can ever get unstuck from the roots, maybe, you know.

[00:59:28] So that's the kind, that's like I'm a jerk.

[00:59:30] Like, I just love doing that.

[00:59:31] So like when I hike with people, like I was hiking with a guy, mine it from my church.

[00:59:35] Super nice guy.

[00:59:36] Nicest guy you'd ever want to meet.

[00:59:37] We did Eisenhower and Monroe.

[00:59:41] And then we're coming down Evan's path.

[00:59:42] And he's, I got to go to the bathroom.

[00:59:44] I got to go to the bathroom.

[00:59:45] So I do my usual.

[00:59:46] I said, okay, well, I'm just going to go down trail and keep an eye out for you.

[00:59:49] And as soon as I get down trail and I turn and I see them step off trail, I go, hey, folks, how are you doing today?

[00:59:54] And then I turn around and it was like, it was like something on a cartoon because he was standing in the middle of the trail with a smile, holding his hands like this.

[01:00:02] And I just start cracking up and he goes, and his smile fades and he goes, there's no one coming, is there?

[01:00:08] And I'm like, no, I'm so sorry.

[01:00:10] I'm like, go ahead, go to the bathroom.

[01:00:11] He goes, well, I can't now.

[01:00:13] So, so I was hiking with Ian and Ian's one of the goons that I hike with.

[01:00:17] Dave's the biggest goon.

[01:00:19] He's here tonight.

[01:00:20] Shout out to Dave.

[01:00:22] And, and he hiked with us.

[01:00:23] We did, we did, well, on the Kinsman's Ball Peak and the hiker babes.

[01:00:27] I hiked with the hiker babes.

[01:00:28] Shout out to the hiker babes right here.

[01:00:30] Let's hear it.

[01:00:31] Yeah.

[01:00:31] Yeah.

[01:00:32] So I hiked with seven women.

[01:00:35] It was fine.

[01:00:36] I got no Dane Bramage.

[01:00:37] And so it was, it was, it was awesome.

[01:00:40] So, so anyway, so, so, so Ian, I was hiking with Ian and we're on, we're on a bell nap and, you know, a bell nap and, and gun stock and out in that area.

[01:00:51] And, and Ian goes, I could go to the bathroom.

[01:00:53] I'm like, I'll keep an eye out for you.

[01:00:55] So I go 10 steps down the trail and here comes a hiker.

[01:00:59] So I turned and I said, Ian, here comes a hiker.

[01:01:02] And he goes, PK, stop it.

[01:01:04] Do you expect us to keep falling for that stuff?

[01:01:07] Okay.

[01:01:08] So I just walked by the hiker and as quiet as I could said, hi.

[01:01:11] And then just turned around to watch the show.

[01:01:14] It was very entertaining.

[01:01:16] It was actually very, very entertaining.

[01:01:18] All right.

[01:01:18] We got to solve something once and for all here tonight.

[01:01:21] Gray Jays.

[01:01:24] Gray Jays.

[01:01:25] So Keith and I were hiking Mount Jackson.

[01:01:28] And we go to the top of Mount Jackson and here come these two ladies that are, you know, like around our age, old.

[01:01:33] And, and, and we're talking.

[01:01:35] And just then a gray Jays lands in the tree right next to us.

[01:01:39] The thing's the size of a pheasant.

[01:01:41] Okay.

[01:01:41] Like imagine the Michelin man put wings on him and paint him gray and like he's there.

[01:01:46] And so Keith being, you know, wanting to make some points with the ladies, he's like, oh, you know, if you put food in your hand, they'll land on your hand and they'll eat.

[01:01:54] So they put potato chips because we all know that that's a balanced diet for gray Jays, right?

[01:02:00] Like, I mean, no.

[01:02:02] So right now we're going to settle this right now.

[01:02:04] How many of you say it's okay to feed the gray Jays?

[01:02:06] Put your hand up.

[01:02:07] Put your hands up.

[01:02:08] Come on.

[01:02:08] You want to feed the gray Jays.

[01:02:10] Okay.

[01:02:10] Sometimes.

[01:02:11] Sometimes.

[01:02:12] How many of you say no?

[01:02:14] How many, how many of you say no?

[01:02:18] Okay.

[01:02:18] Okay.

[01:02:19] Oh, it's split.

[01:02:20] How many of you are not going to put your hands up no matter what I say?

[01:02:24] The majority.

[01:02:29] So here's the deal.

[01:02:32] I watched the presidential debates.

[01:02:35] Like, you know, I didn't want to hear about the economy and border walls and World War III.

[01:02:41] I thought they should have brought up the subject of gray Jays.

[01:02:44] Right?

[01:02:45] Like, here's Martha.

[01:02:47] She's with the network.

[01:02:48] And she's like, Vice President Harris, what do you think about the gray Jays?

[01:02:52] Gray Jays.

[01:02:57] Gray Jays are unburdened by the past.

[01:02:59] They're gray and they're Jays.

[01:03:01] They're gray Jays.

[01:03:02] President Trump.

[01:03:06] What do you say about the gray Jays?

[01:03:08] The gray Jays population in New Hampshire is in big trouble.

[01:03:12] Big, big, big trouble.

[01:03:13] I mean big trouble.

[01:03:14] I talked to a guy who knows they're in big trouble.

[01:03:17] And it's in direct proportion to the number of Haitians from Springfield that are hiking in New Hampshire.

[01:03:23] Come on, folks.

[01:03:24] That's like ridiculous.

[01:03:26] Just really ridiculous.

[01:03:27] But, you know, America is like a melting pot now, right?

[01:03:30] Different people.

[01:03:31] And I was hiking Welsh Dickies, as a matter of fact, coming down Welsh Dickie.

[01:03:34] I saw a guy from China.

[01:03:36] And he had four dead turkeys.

[01:03:39] Two in each hand.

[01:03:40] Like he's coming down the trail.

[01:03:42] And I'm like, dude.

[01:03:43] Well, actually, they have a very respectful culture.

[01:03:45] So I was like, Mr. Dude.

[01:03:47] Like, you can't do that.

[01:03:50] You can't do that.

[01:03:52] And he looked at me and went.

[01:03:54] And I was like, whoa, whoa.

[01:03:56] Hey, chill, man.

[01:03:57] Have a beer.

[01:03:58] Work for Fish and Game.

[01:03:59] I like General's House chicken just as much as the next guy.

[01:04:01] Like, holy smokes.

[01:04:03] Folks, hey, I was thinking about this.

[01:04:06] Because my mind, as you can tell, is not wrapped too tight.

[01:04:09] So I think different.

[01:04:11] And so I was thinking about what would it be like if you're hiking with your hiking buddy.

[01:04:17] And you summit the mountain.

[01:04:19] And right when you summit the mountain, you accidentally butt dial your neighbor that lives across the street.

[01:04:26] And so it sounds something like this.

[01:04:27] This is what they hear.

[01:04:34] And then you look at your buddy because they had a hard time.

[01:04:36] And you're like, how you doing?

[01:04:44] And just then they break out a brand new Patagonia down jacket that you've never seen before.

[01:04:48] And you're like, what are you wearing?

[01:04:54] It's like, it's not right, right?

[01:04:56] And then they take out their camera and they start taking pictures.

[01:04:59] And you realize, like, you don't know where your camera is and the battery's a little low.

[01:05:01] And it's like, can you send me some pictures right now?

[01:05:07] People don't understand the hiking community unless you hike, right?

[01:05:10] That's just part of what goes on.

[01:05:13] So I want to close with this.

[01:05:17] A while back, I did a search and rescue simulation with the Pemigrawassik search and rescue team.

[01:05:22] And we hiked Mount Jackson.

[01:05:24] And it was a bomby 25 to 30 below zero.

[01:05:28] Just a great day.

[01:05:29] And when they came, we came back down and they said, we're going to do a skid training.

[01:05:34] So the skid is a big piece of plastic that in winter rescues they use to get people off the mountain.

[01:05:41] And they said, Ken, why don't you be our patient?

[01:05:43] And I was like, yeah, you know, yeah, I'm up for that.

[01:05:46] And one of them actually said, we can call it the bossy bag.

[01:05:50] And I wasn't too keen on that.

[01:05:53] But anyways, they lay me down on this piece of plastic.

[01:05:55] They put a blanket down.

[01:05:57] They put a one-inch thick pillow down.

[01:05:59] And then they lay me down on it.

[01:06:01] And then they proceed to wrap me up like a burrito.

[01:06:04] Now, you know what burritos do to your intestines?

[01:06:07] You know, like, you're going to go.

[01:06:09] And I was like, so then they start strapping me in.

[01:06:11] First strap around my ankles.

[01:06:13] Second strap around my knees.

[01:06:15] Third strap around my waist.

[01:06:16] Then they wanted me to put my arms down like this.

[01:06:18] And other straps are going to go around like, so you can't move.

[01:06:21] And then they put you in the monorail that the snowshoes make.

[01:06:25] That's like a luge.

[01:06:29] And I'm like, you know what?

[01:06:30] I'm not claustrophobic.

[01:06:31] But this is not going to work right now.

[01:06:32] So they're like, oh, get out.

[01:06:33] Get out, please.

[01:06:34] We don't want you in it.

[01:06:35] So another guy got in it.

[01:06:37] Now, I was watching this.

[01:06:39] And I was thinking, there's people with a rope in front in case you got to go uphill.

[01:06:42] They're pulling.

[01:06:43] There's people on a rope in the back with a rope that are on the back to hold you back

[01:06:47] because you're going down Mount Jackson like this.

[01:06:51] And I would have thought that they would have had like three quarter inch hiking rope, right?

[01:06:55] They had clothesline.

[01:06:57] That was moldy and fraying.

[01:07:00] And I was like, so I told Rusty, you know Rusty, right?

[01:07:03] He's a great guy.

[01:07:04] I told Rusty, I said, listen, I'm freezing.

[01:07:06] And I'm going to head down because I got to drive all the way back down to southern New Hampshire.

[01:07:09] I'm going to head down.

[01:07:10] So I no sooner start going, I take like maybe 15 steps.

[01:07:14] And they're starting to move with this guy.

[01:07:15] And all of a sudden, I hear snap.

[01:07:21] That guy had to have been doing at least 50.

[01:07:23] And I mean, like, and I just thought, I thought, man, he's going to get hurt.

[01:07:26] And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, off trail, this guy jumps out, grabs the thing,

[01:07:33] stops it with his bare hands, points at the guy and says, do you know why I pulled you over?

[01:07:41] Thank you very much, everybody.

[01:07:42] Have a good night.

[01:07:44] Uh-oh, stick around.

[01:07:46] I'm sorry it wasn't me.

[01:07:47] I have a dad joke.

[01:07:49] I wanted to get your reaction.

[01:07:51] So I went to the store the other day to buy camouflage pants.

[01:07:54] Yeah.

[01:07:54] And I couldn't find any.

[01:08:01] Why don't you try to rate these dad jokes, all right?

[01:08:03] Good or bad?

[01:08:04] Thumbs up, thumbs down?

[01:08:05] All right.

[01:08:05] That's pretty bad.

[01:08:06] I got another one here.

[01:08:07] So dogs can't operate MRI scans, but cats can.

[01:08:11] Right?

[01:08:12] Right?

[01:08:12] I like that.

[01:08:14] Yes.

[01:08:15] What do elves in the North Pole use to clean up the day after Christmas?

[01:08:20] No idea.

[01:08:21] Sanitizer.

[01:08:23] That's all I got.

[01:08:26] Awesome.

[01:08:27] Good job.

[01:08:28] All right.

[01:08:28] Thank you so much, Ken.

[01:08:29] Yeah, thank you.

[01:08:29] Thank you, everybody.

[01:08:30] Thanks for getting us canceled.

[01:08:32] Appreciate it.

[01:08:33] Wow.

[01:08:37] Is Steve in the house?

[01:08:39] Reckless Steve, come on up.

[01:08:42] Hold my beer.

[01:08:43] It's time to find out what Mike and Stomp are drinking on this week's Beer Talk.

[01:08:49] Here comes Reckless Steve in the house.

[01:08:58] Come on down, brother.

[01:09:00] So here comes Marlena.

[01:09:06] Excellent.

[01:09:07] All right, everybody.

[01:09:08] So we have a few people from Reckless.

[01:09:11] Let's give them a round.

[01:09:12] This is Reckless Steve and Marlena.

[01:09:16] Marlena.

[01:09:17] What a pleasant surprise.

[01:09:19] I know.

[01:09:19] This is weird.

[01:09:20] Are you nervous?

[01:09:23] I feel like the last time I saw you, you gave me a good taco.

[01:09:27] Did I?

[01:09:27] Yeah.

[01:09:28] Or maybe it was a burrito.

[01:09:29] I can't remember.

[01:09:29] That is my skill.

[01:09:30] If I had tacos up here right now, I'd be much more comfortable.

[01:09:33] I appreciate it, though.

[01:09:34] It was good.

[01:09:34] It was memorable.

[01:09:35] It was okay.

[01:09:36] Oh, good.

[01:09:37] That's good to know.

[01:09:38] Yeah.

[01:09:38] No, I professed chopping onions.

[01:09:41] Yes.

[01:09:42] I'm very good at that right now.

[01:09:43] Yeah.

[01:09:44] Yeah.

[01:09:44] Do you have a system for not crying?

[01:09:47] For not trying?

[01:09:48] No, for not crying.

[01:09:49] Oh, crying.

[01:09:50] Yeah.

[01:09:51] I get recommended something different every day.

[01:09:54] Yeah.

[01:09:54] And I keep trying.

[01:09:55] I just use a towel.

[01:09:56] Yeah.

[01:09:56] I kind of like it because when you own a restaurant, sometimes you want to cry a lot.

[01:10:00] Yeah.

[01:10:00] So I can fake it behind the onions.

[01:10:03] Exactly.

[01:10:04] So it's right.

[01:10:04] I'm like, it's just the onions, you guys.

[01:10:06] It's okay.

[01:10:07] True.

[01:10:07] So I've been drinking the full condition.

[01:10:10] So have you been trying it out?

[01:10:11] Are you a big beer drinker?

[01:10:13] No.

[01:10:15] Marlena is all about wine.

[01:10:16] Wine.

[01:10:17] So I appreciate that because my daughter, she's not a beer drinker, but she's all over the

[01:10:22] alternative menu.

[01:10:24] Oh.

[01:10:24] So do you design the drinks too?

[01:10:26] No, I don't.

[01:10:27] No, I don't.

[01:10:27] Just wine?

[01:10:28] No.

[01:10:29] Well, I wish I could design the wine, but yeah.

[01:10:31] Marlena has designed some of the reckless beers.

[01:10:34] I'm better at the name designing.

[01:10:38] Don't Call Me Honey, though, was you.

[01:10:40] That was me and Jules.

[01:10:41] And Jules, who does our sales and distribution.

[01:10:43] That was an all-ladies beer.

[01:10:46] That's one of our most popular.

[01:10:49] Actually, a little story short.

[01:10:50] When we were in the shed, Ian taught me how to brew beer.

[01:10:54] So in the very beginning, the dream was that Ian and I were going to brew beer.

[01:10:58] And it didn't really work out that way.

[01:11:00] But now Steven and Ian and Jeremy and Kyle at one point brewed beer by Ian.

[01:11:05] So it works out much better.

[01:11:07] Running a business and being married is not the easiest thing to do in the world.

[01:11:10] So, you know.

[01:11:11] Do you, like, I...

[01:11:11] I stick with the onions.

[01:11:12] He sticks with the beers.

[01:11:13] And it all works out really well.

[01:11:15] Have you been able to...

[01:11:17] I worked at a restaurant for, like, 10 years.

[01:11:19] I was, like, 14 to about 24.

[01:11:21] Like, I would go back and forth in college.

[01:11:23] And it was a family-owned restaurant.

[01:11:24] And I do feel, like, that old adage around, like, you don't own a restaurant or a restaurant owns you.

[01:11:30] Do you...

[01:11:31] Have you been able to, like, get over that hump?

[01:11:32] Do you feel like you've got a team where it's not such an insane time commitment?

[01:11:37] Everything at UKIC, everything that's happening right now is because I have a team.

[01:11:41] It has nothing to do with just Ian and I.

[01:11:43] It's because we have an amazing group of people that have the same passions that we do.

[01:11:47] So have I gotten over the hump?

[01:11:50] So, uh, the way you get...

[01:11:52] The way you get through something together with a team is that you jump in the trenches with them.

[01:11:57] So, we're in the trenches.

[01:11:59] But I don't think I could see it any other way.

[01:12:01] Okay.

[01:12:02] Like, you know, I'm not gonna...

[01:12:03] I'm not gonna clean the grease pit, you know, unless someone else is gonna...

[01:12:07] Like, I'm not gonna have anyone do anything that I wouldn't be willing to do myself.

[01:12:11] So, it seems to be Ian's motto.

[01:12:13] What do you think, Steven?

[01:12:13] It took us three years of doing this event to finally get Marlena away long enough to come and say something on mic.

[01:12:21] I don't know.

[01:12:23] I wasn't even gonna talk and Ty just told me I had to, so...

[01:12:28] That's great.

[01:12:29] But I'm here and I'm enjoying it.

[01:12:31] So, yes.

[01:12:32] So, because of our team, Ian and I get to enjoy things.

[01:12:35] But working with our team and being with them and all of us, like, sharing our passions together is what's gotten us to this point.

[01:12:41] Awesome.

[01:12:42] So, it's pretty amazing.

[01:12:43] Well, we appreciate it.

[01:12:44] And my wife always says, she's like, I love the aesthetics.

[01:12:46] And I feel like you're the one that, like, created that whole vibe.

[01:12:49] I'm not that person.

[01:12:50] All right.

[01:12:50] So, I'm the aesthetics, like, crazy, insane person.

[01:12:53] Yeah, I love it.

[01:12:54] Just so you know, if you ask any of my staff members what will be on my tombstone is, like, did you dim the lights?

[01:13:00] So, lighting and aesthetic and decorating world is very important.

[01:13:06] So, yeah.

[01:13:06] Yeah, no, it's amazing.

[01:13:07] And then, like, this pint house section here, is this open all the time or...?

[01:13:12] It's open as long as we're not having a private event.

[01:13:14] Okay.

[01:13:14] But then it's not open midweek.

[01:13:16] So, it's been awesome.

[01:13:17] This whole pint house has allowed us to do things like this.

[01:13:20] You know, like, when Ian and I first started Reckless, it was in a little shed.

[01:13:23] And one of the things that we realized was that the thing that beer is, beer is a vessel for people getting together and connecting.

[01:13:31] You know, it's a great side effect.

[01:13:33] You know, it loosens you up if you're a little nervous, all those things.

[01:13:36] But when we had...

[01:13:38] So, we didn't want to lose that in our little shed.

[01:13:40] So, as we developed this whole thing in the restaurant, we just wanted to make sure that we did things that encouraged people to keep talking to each other and doing things.

[01:13:49] As we kept growing and getting bigger, you know, people come to a restaurant, they want to be able to sit down and eat.

[01:13:54] But if you're so busy with other things, like, that makes it more difficult.

[01:13:58] So, we were getting to the point where we had to start saying no to more of these things.

[01:14:02] And when this came available for us to buy, so conveniently during COVID, it worked out.

[01:14:10] You know, there's a lot of things that worked out that made this happen for us.

[01:14:13] But having the pint house has really helped us be able to do a lot of things for the community.

[01:14:18] Like, this week, we just did things for Adaptive.

[01:14:20] Like, it's been pretty awesome.

[01:14:22] Yeah, you have two giant sheds now.

[01:14:23] Yes, exactly.

[01:14:25] It's a pretty giant shed.

[01:14:27] Yes.

[01:14:27] So, please enjoy.

[01:14:29] Now, Steve, can you talk about full conditions and the brewing process?

[01:14:32] And you had said that this is, like, the best end result of all time.

[01:14:36] Or do you just say that every time?

[01:14:38] No, it tastes really good this year.

[01:14:40] Good.

[01:14:40] Thank you.

[01:14:40] I'm glad.

[01:14:41] Yeah.

[01:14:42] So, we...

[01:14:42] This is the first volume of full conditions that we made on a new brew house, a better brew house.

[01:14:48] We upgraded some of our equipment.

[01:14:50] And because we're able to get much cleaner wort, which is pre-fermented beer, the fermentation was much healthier.

[01:15:00] And if you've listened to or if you've come to any of these full conditions events in years past, you're probably bored hearing me talk about thiols.

[01:15:08] But that's what makes this beer so special is this special yeast that's programmed to unlock these thiols, which are these aromatic compounds.

[01:15:19] We're talking about measuring these thiols in, like, parts per trillion.

[01:15:22] Like, a thimble full of this compound in an Olympic-sized swimming pool.

[01:15:27] You're going to be able to notice it.

[01:15:28] You're going to be able to smell it.

[01:15:29] So, if you're drinking full conditions, give it a sniff.

[01:15:33] I get a lot of, like, big guava, overripe sort of tropical fruits.

[01:15:40] And that is almost entirely coming from these thiols that are given to us by this yeast.

[01:15:48] I'm proud to say that this is the first time that we did not dry hop full conditions because with the clean fermentation, really healthy brew,

[01:15:57] the fruit flavor and aroma was there without needing to rely on a dry hop.

[01:16:01] So, we're really proud of this one, and we're looking forward to continuing making it this way with this process.

[01:16:08] Steven, I have a question.

[01:16:10] Yes.

[01:16:10] If you, in your hiking world, and you know all these things about hiking and you have this whole pack, right,

[01:16:17] with all the essentials that you put in your pack, this is how my brain works, everybody, just so you know.

[01:16:21] He says thiols, and a lot of people go, eww.

[01:16:24] What's a thiol in hiking?

[01:16:26] What's a comparable equivalent to its importance in hiking world?

[01:16:30] Huh.

[01:16:31] It's something that you don't see very often.

[01:16:37] You know, maybe you only need one or two of them, but it's incredibly important when you want to rely on it.

[01:16:42] It's like when you strap a sled to the back of your backpack.

[01:16:45] Sure, a sled or maybe something like an EpiPen, you know.

[01:16:49] Most of the time you don't want it, but it only takes one or two to really make a world of difference.

[01:16:55] How much alcohol is in these?

[01:16:56] Because I've had like one and a half, and I feel tingly.

[01:16:59] I believe, I believe, I'm not in front of the chalkboard, so don't hold me to it.

[01:17:03] I believe full conditions is 6%, around 6%.

[01:17:06] Okay, so that's why I'm tingling.

[01:17:07] That's fair.

[01:17:08] Have you had anything to eat?

[01:17:10] I did.

[01:17:10] I had a, oh my God, I stopped at the Hookshead rest stop, and I got a sandwich.

[01:17:15] I love that place.

[01:17:16] You guys should, you should see if you could get a location inside the Hookshead rest stop next to the common man.

[01:17:24] Yeah, right, for the pre-hike stuff.

[01:17:26] I love that, yeah.

[01:17:28] I do believe we sell reckless beer in the southbound Hookshead.

[01:17:32] We have some beer in some of them.

[01:17:33] I actually have an idea for a beer for you guys.

[01:17:35] Oh.

[01:17:37] We love ideas.

[01:17:39] A, what do you call it, those cider donuts?

[01:17:41] Uh-huh.

[01:17:41] Like making a cider donut beer.

[01:17:43] Oh.

[01:17:44] Right?

[01:17:45] I like the sound of that.

[01:17:46] Hey, Ty, a full condition donut.

[01:17:49] Oh, yeah, I like that too.

[01:17:50] What does that donut have to make through to still exist as a donut on the mountain?

[01:17:55] Sub-zero conditions, right?

[01:17:58] Sure, you're talking about, are you talking about bringing a donut up?

[01:18:00] Yes, bringing a donut.

[01:18:01] It's like a survival donut.

[01:18:03] Totally.

[01:18:04] Yeah.

[01:18:04] That's a full conditions donut, right?

[01:18:06] We can pack it full of vitamins and nutrients.

[01:18:08] And it has a little beer in it, yeah.

[01:18:09] Spent grain, little flour.

[01:18:10] We're off the rails here.

[01:18:12] I'm sure there's some entrepreneur sitting in the audience.

[01:18:15] I'm sure there's some heat.

[01:18:16] I'm off the rails a little bit.

[01:18:17] No, you're awesome.

[01:18:19] Any other big events coming up for Reckless?

[01:18:22] Oh, jeez, I need Phillip for that.

[01:18:24] See, that's the thing.

[01:18:25] My team's so well, I don't have to think as much as I used to.

[01:18:27] If you're not in the weeds, that's a good sign.

[01:18:28] Yeah, I just do.

[01:18:29] I don't think so.

[01:18:29] Oh, that's perfect.

[01:18:31] Recklessbrewing.com is a great place to go to learn about all of our Reckless events.

[01:18:34] Yep, yep, yep.

[01:18:34] We have tastings.

[01:18:36] We have a lot of things that come up.

[01:18:38] Just always check our website.

[01:18:39] We always have stuff that's in the workings because we love doing things.

[01:18:43] Do you guys slow down over the winter or is it pretty steady?

[01:18:46] Do you get the ski crowd?

[01:18:47] Yeah, I mean, right, snow, right?

[01:18:49] We all had a parade to the snow gods.

[01:18:51] So we hope for snow.

[01:18:52] Weekends are always a little busy.

[01:18:54] You know, we're a tourist area, an area where people come up here for a destination.

[01:19:00] So this time from November to April, it's a roller coaster ride.

[01:19:05] It's a fun one.

[01:19:06] Yeah, we're in stick season right now.

[01:19:08] Luckily, Bretton Woods is open now.

[01:19:11] And, you know, we're doing things like having podcast events.

[01:19:18] Excellent.

[01:19:19] Well, we appreciate you hosting us.

[01:19:21] This is like the third time we've come back, so we must not be too annoying.

[01:19:24] Yeah, no, it's awesome.

[01:19:25] I mean, the stomp's annoying, but I'm okay.

[01:19:27] Well, on that note, I was sitting at the table talking to Kyle.

[01:19:31] Oh!

[01:19:31] But you've been with me.

[01:19:33] Do you want to press one of the buttons?

[01:19:35] He won't let me.

[01:19:35] It's pretty far, but let him press it, though.

[01:19:37] I feel like he might be better at that timing than me.

[01:19:39] No, he won't let me do it.

[01:19:40] I was sitting at the table with Ty.

[01:19:41] I don't want to be too talky.

[01:19:43] But, like, I don't know.

[01:19:45] Does everyone understand how this all started?

[01:19:48] Raise your hand if you do know.

[01:19:51] Okay, nobody knows.

[01:19:52] Oh, what?

[01:19:52] Oh, a couple people.

[01:19:53] Yay!

[01:19:54] So it sounds like I should tell the story a little bit.

[01:19:55] Yes, please.

[01:19:56] Ty, that's what I'm supposed to do, right?

[01:19:58] Where are you, Ty?

[01:19:59] I know.

[01:20:00] Okay, yeah.

[01:20:01] He's drinking.

[01:20:02] Yeah, I know.

[01:20:03] Well, a lot has to do with Steven.

[01:20:05] He's part of Search and Rescue, which is hooked to Jamie.

[01:20:08] And then, you know, and Ty's hooked to these guys.

[01:20:11] And basically, Ty reached out to us and was like, hey, you know, I come to Reckless.

[01:20:14] It's cool.

[01:20:15] You're into hiking.

[01:20:16] You're into all the things we're into.

[01:20:18] And he reached out to us.

[01:20:19] And we were like, oh, wow.

[01:20:21] You're reaching out to us?

[01:20:22] That's amazing.

[01:20:23] And, you know, this is the thing about, once again, about beer.

[01:20:26] It connects in, like, this whole apre hangout thing.

[01:20:30] So we set a meeting with Steven.

[01:20:32] And at the OG bar in Reckless, we call it the OG because it's the original bar.

[01:20:36] When we first opened, it was small.

[01:20:39] We just sat there one day, and this is what happens.

[01:20:41] We have a couple drinks, and everybody just starts having their great ideas.

[01:20:45] And everybody starts sharing their love, and they start being like, man, you're great.

[01:20:48] You're great.

[01:20:48] This is awesome.

[01:20:49] This is awesome.

[01:20:50] And everybody wants to help everybody all of a sudden.

[01:20:53] And then all of a sudden, we're creating a beer.

[01:20:56] And we're like, we've got to figure out a name for this beer.

[01:20:59] And that's when Full Conditions came around because that's what Ty focuses on in helping protect us all in full conditions

[01:21:06] because that's what we love, being up in these mountains.

[01:21:09] And then from there, it's like, how are we going to tell the world about this beer?

[01:21:13] And we talked to Jamie, and all of a sudden, it's like, let's hike together.

[01:21:17] Let's do the thing that we love.

[01:21:18] Let's taste the beer.

[01:21:19] Let's have a great time, and let's all talk about it.

[01:21:22] And that's kind of how this has happened.

[01:21:23] And I'm just so grateful and so honored.

[01:21:27] Something to put into perspective, if I'm talking a lot, raise your hand.

[01:21:35] I don't get a chance to tell people how grateful I am.

[01:21:37] I just think that I could become a teary person up here.

[01:21:41] But I moved from Portland, Oregon 10 years ago because I fell in love with Ian, and we started Reckless.

[01:21:46] And I had no idea my life would be what it is.

[01:21:50] But the community up here and the people I've met are so amazing.

[01:21:53] And a lot of them are in this room.

[01:21:56] They're people that, like, appreciate the things that we do.

[01:21:59] And that's, like, taking care of humans, taking care of nature, and enjoying nature.

[01:22:04] But for a perspective, my brother and his wife and his kids are visiting from Oregon for the last four days.

[01:22:12] And we just happened to be doing this event, so they got to join us.

[01:22:15] And so, you know, his girls are with us.

[01:22:17] If any of you did the hike today, you got greeted by Bella and Brittany.

[01:22:21] Yeah?

[01:22:21] They're giving you, like, coffees and, like, little drinks and hats.

[01:22:25] But my brother's walking down the trail.

[01:22:28] He's getting in the car with me afterwards.

[01:22:29] He's like, oh, my God.

[01:22:30] Like, this is crazy.

[01:22:31] Like, people go on hikes, and they talk to each other on the top of a mountain?

[01:22:35] Do you guys know what I'm talking about right now?

[01:22:37] I'm like, yeah.

[01:22:38] I'm like, these are awesome humans.

[01:22:40] We have a common goal.

[01:22:41] There's so many people trying to do the 4,000-footers.

[01:22:44] There's, like, there's a lot that, like, people connect by hiking around here.

[01:22:47] And he was just so blown away.

[01:22:49] It just made me think, like, you can never take for granted how awesome the community you have around you.

[01:22:54] So I just want to thank all of you guys.

[01:22:56] Like, this is pretty amazing.

[01:22:57] You all support each other in this goal and this taking care of nature and supporting each other and getting to these places.

[01:23:04] And these are things that we choose, right?

[01:23:06] We don't have to do these things in life.

[01:23:07] But once we choose it, you get out in nature and you realize how amazing it is, right?

[01:23:12] And once you realize something is so amazing and the people are in it, you want to take care of it and protect it more.

[01:23:18] So thank you very much.

[01:23:19] I'm going to thank you guys.

[01:23:21] Plus, therapy is super expensive.

[01:23:23] It's way cheaper to go hiking.

[01:23:24] I know.

[01:23:25] Way cheaper to go hiking.

[01:23:27] Right, right.

[01:23:27] But we want to thank you both.

[01:23:28] And you can get full conditions in retail as well as, like, buying it here.

[01:23:32] I believe so.

[01:23:33] Yes.

[01:23:33] Thumbs up on that?

[01:23:35] We can get it in retail?

[01:23:36] Yes.

[01:23:37] Thumbs up.

[01:23:37] Yeah.

[01:23:38] Awesome.

[01:23:38] Yeah.

[01:23:39] Awesome.

[01:23:39] Anything else, Steve?

[01:23:40] Anything else you want to add?

[01:23:43] No.

[01:23:43] I'm just so grateful that Marlana came up and had a lot to say.

[01:23:46] She's a great speaker and she's very inspirational.

[01:23:48] Aw.

[01:23:49] I love Steven.

[01:23:52] All right.

[01:23:52] Well, thanks for hosting us and we'll try not to be too misbehaved here.

[01:23:57] I know Ken, we'll keep an eye on Ken.

[01:23:59] Oh, misbehaved.

[01:24:00] I'm going to be like Austin Powers.

[01:24:02] Be, like, I don't want you to behave.

[01:24:04] Okay.

[01:24:04] What's he say?

[01:24:05] Misbehaved?

[01:24:06] Misbehaved.

[01:24:06] Go with it.

[01:24:07] I'll get beyond tingling and get to drunk.

[01:24:09] Oh, yes.

[01:24:10] Yes.

[01:24:11] As long as you have a driver.

[01:24:12] Yes.

[01:24:13] Oh, yeah.

[01:24:13] Of course.

[01:24:14] Thank you, everybody.

[01:24:16] Awesome.

[01:24:16] Thank you.

[01:24:35] It's time for Slasher's Guest of the Week.

[01:24:39] Very cool.

[01:24:40] Very cool.

[01:24:51] Stomp's like, don't you dare talk until the drop is done.

[01:24:55] I'm like, I get scared of him.

[01:24:57] He's like, when he's on the board, it's like, don't mess around.

[01:24:59] Very serious.

[01:25:00] You guys get scared of him too?

[01:25:02] He's scary a lot of times, right?

[01:25:03] No.

[01:25:04] Is he a softie to you?

[01:25:06] All right.

[01:25:07] I love that, like, you missed the whole thing.

[01:25:09] What?

[01:25:09] I was singing 21 Pilots almost in tears.

[01:25:11] Oh, you were.

[01:25:12] I'm a big softie.

[01:25:13] Oh, okay.

[01:25:15] Dave Blanks in the Woods back there calls me a squatch.

[01:25:17] I feel like dad.

[01:25:18] I don't know about that.

[01:25:19] Like, girl dads are like, they usually kind of like.

[01:25:22] Softies.

[01:25:23] So you have like, because we have eight girls between us.

[01:25:25] That's a lot of girls.

[01:25:26] That's a lot of girls.

[01:25:28] Hey, oh, I was going to wear my One Direction shirt tonight too, but it was a little tight.

[01:25:34] I respect that.

[01:25:34] It doesn't fit like it used to several years ago.

[01:25:37] Speaking of girls, is Lynn and Cindy here?

[01:25:39] Can you guys both come up?

[01:25:41] Look at Cindy's way back in the corner here and our friend Lynn.

[01:25:45] We're going to have the hiking buddies and the Alzheimer's Association come up and give a quick update.

[01:25:50] Yeah.

[01:25:50] So we have a bunch of guests coming up over the next, I don't know.

[01:25:55] We're running long here.

[01:25:56] 20 minutes.

[01:25:56] This is fun though.

[01:25:57] Everybody good?

[01:25:57] Everybody good?

[01:25:59] All right.

[01:26:00] This is so much fun.

[01:26:01] All right, Cindy.

[01:26:02] We don't know where Lynn is.

[01:26:03] Julie, if you see Lynn back there to tell her to come on up.

[01:26:06] Oh, here she comes.

[01:26:07] She's taking a photo.

[01:26:08] Awesome.

[01:26:08] There she is.

[01:26:09] All right.

[01:26:09] Well, so Cindy, congratulations for being here.

[01:26:13] Thank you.

[01:26:13] It's great to be back again.

[01:26:15] It was good.

[01:26:15] I did the Alzheimer's hike.

[01:26:17] I did the Alzheimer's hike.

[01:26:18] I did, I think Garfield?

[01:26:20] No, I did Galehead.

[01:26:21] Yeah.

[01:26:21] And we had this awesome moment on Galehead where we did the Alzheimer's hike.

[01:26:24] There was 10 of us.

[01:26:26] Dave Schitts in the Woods was there.

[01:26:27] Dave's back there with his beard right there.

[01:26:29] Say hello, Dave.

[01:26:29] He doesn't like hiking with people, but he came out of his company.

[01:26:32] This is a family show.

[01:26:33] Oh, sorry.

[01:26:34] Dave has movements in the woods.

[01:26:37] So, but the coolest thing that happened, the coolest thing that happened was we took

[01:26:41] a photo on Galehead and Ken was talking about Grey Jays.

[01:26:45] A Grey Jay, literally, there was like 10 of us and a Grey Jay just came flying by.

[01:26:50] We had this random lady take a picture with a cell phone and she took the photo and the

[01:26:55] Grey Jay was like just dive bombing right across us.

[01:26:57] It was the coolest photo ever.

[01:26:58] So, you guys wanted one of the superlatives we did too.

[01:27:02] I think it was like best group photo or something on Insta.

[01:27:05] Oh, we were definitely the best group.

[01:27:06] Oh, yeah.

[01:27:07] Yeah.

[01:27:07] So, for sure.

[01:27:08] No, he was the best one.

[01:27:09] We had a good crew.

[01:27:10] We had Eric taught sweet.

[01:27:11] I had to keep him under control, but otherwise it was okay.

[01:27:14] But can you give us an update?

[01:27:16] How was last year's Alzheimer's fundraiser event and then what's coming up for next year?

[01:27:21] Yeah, we had a great 2024.

[01:27:23] Do we have any 48 Peaks hikers in the room actually?

[01:27:25] Can we get some cheers?

[01:27:26] Yeah.

[01:27:27] Big crowd.

[01:27:27] Thanks, everybody.

[01:27:28] Love to see it.

[01:27:29] Yeah, I wrote it down because I didn't want to mess it up.

[01:27:32] Yeah, you have a whole script there.

[01:27:33] I know I do.

[01:27:33] I'm impressed.

[01:27:34] What do you got?

[01:27:35] So, for our total this year, we had $215,000 and, oh no, $215,014.

[01:27:45] Got to remember the 14.

[01:27:47] Excellent.

[01:27:48] So, and that also helped us achieve over $1.1 million raised by 48 Peaks in the 10 plus years

[01:27:55] that we've been in existence.

[01:27:57] Amazing.

[01:27:58] Yeah.

[01:27:59] Wow.

[01:28:00] And then what's, from a timeline perspective next year, what do we need to know about?

[01:28:04] So, our goal for next year is still probably $200,000.

[01:28:09] I got to check with Megan.

[01:28:11] But another goal we have is to achieve 100 teams because this year we actually had 96.

[01:28:17] So, we're pretty much almost there.

[01:28:19] I think we can get to 100.

[01:28:20] But of the hikers we had, we had over 400 hikers and almost half were new.

[01:28:26] So, that was like fantastic.

[01:28:27] Lots of new people who want to get involved.

[01:28:29] I think social media helped a lot is what it seems to be.

[01:28:33] And you guys too, like having the spots and talking about it.

[01:28:36] So, our goal is just more hikers, more teams, more fundraising, more fun.

[01:28:41] And was there any like super fundraisers?

[01:28:43] I feel like there was a couple of people that were like super fundraisers.

[01:28:46] We did.

[01:28:47] Actually, one's here.

[01:28:48] Paul Lamar.

[01:28:49] He's right over here.

[01:28:50] I teed that up so well.

[01:28:51] Yes.

[01:28:51] Give him a shout out.

[01:28:52] I forget the exact amount.

[01:28:54] It was, Paul, how much was it?

[01:28:56] Lynn, do you remember?

[01:28:57] It was over 9,000.

[01:28:59] Yeah.

[01:28:59] That's what I thought.

[01:29:00] So, let's give him a round of applause.

[01:29:01] Paul did amazing.

[01:29:03] Yeah.

[01:29:04] Paul, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you a patch for a thank you.

[01:29:08] So, I'll hook you up later.

[01:29:10] But yeah, in terms of next year, our hiker celebration,

[01:29:13] should be June 21st, which is the first time we've had it on the longest day of the year,

[01:29:18] the summer solstice.

[01:29:19] So, I think it'll be a very special year.

[01:29:21] Is it booked for here?

[01:29:23] We're still working on details.

[01:29:25] But June 21st will be the date and we hope to see a lot of people there.

[01:29:29] Awesome.

[01:29:29] We're going to get back at it and do another hike this time.

[01:29:32] Stomp, did you go?

[01:29:34] No, no, no.

[01:29:35] I was here.

[01:29:35] Why was I doing all the work?

[01:29:36] I was DJing.

[01:29:37] Oh, you were DJing.

[01:29:37] All right.

[01:29:38] Yeah.

[01:29:38] He was holding it down here.

[01:29:39] I was just double checking.

[01:29:40] Just making sure.

[01:29:41] Yeah.

[01:29:41] Okay.

[01:29:42] Well, thank you so much.

[01:29:43] And then we have Lynn.

[01:29:43] So, Lynn's involved in Alzheimer's, but you're also here for the Hiking Buddies.

[01:29:47] Lynn, there's like basically no organization that Lynn is not involved with at this point.

[01:29:52] But what's going on with the Hiking Buddies at this point?

[01:29:55] And can you just give the listeners a little bit of a reminder about what the Hiking Buddies

[01:29:59] do and then how they can participate?

[01:30:01] Yeah, definitely.

[01:30:02] Thanks, Mike.

[01:30:03] So, for those of you that don't know, Hiking Buddies started as a Facebook group.

[01:30:07] It is now a full 501c3 nonprofit organization for almost two years now.

[01:30:12] Some of the missions we achieved this year, we educate young people.

[01:30:16] So, if you're between the ages of 17 and 25, we have opportunities through our friends at Redline Guiding

[01:30:22] for you to become educated for free, basically, in different skills having to do with being safe

[01:30:29] and recreating outdoors in the mountains.

[01:30:31] So, we love that mission.

[01:30:33] We'll keep doing that.

[01:30:34] We offer it to adults as well as a paid course.

[01:30:37] And, again, that's 17 to 25-year-olds are free.

[01:30:40] So, the mission of Hiking Buddies is we're dedicated to preventing future tragedies,

[01:30:47] future avoidable tragedies through education, impactful projects, and fostering a community of support.

[01:30:54] So, in doing that, we're actually putting together now a winter safety festival at the Barn Door Hostel in Rumney, New Hampshire.

[01:31:03] That's coming up in February.

[01:31:05] So, folks will have the chance to see some vendors, learn a few skills,

[01:31:09] and then potentially practice those skills on Sunday with professional guides.

[01:31:13] So, we're just in process of getting that going.

[01:31:16] Mike and Stomp haven't totally agreed yet, but they're going to come on as emcees, I hope.

[01:31:22] But, this is the ask.

[01:31:24] Wait a minute.

[01:31:25] What's going on here?

[01:31:25] This is the ask.

[01:31:26] I am already being voluntold.

[01:31:28] This is the voluntold.

[01:31:30] Oh, okay.

[01:31:31] It's amazing.

[01:31:32] As time goes on with this, like, every weekend is getting booked up with things.

[01:31:37] It's sort of crazy.

[01:31:38] My kids are all, like, out of the house now.

[01:31:40] I have nothing to do.

[01:31:42] Well, I guess.

[01:31:45] Oh, boy.

[01:31:45] It's got to be tough.

[01:31:46] That's true.

[01:31:47] Give them back to the community.

[01:31:49] Yeah, we try.

[01:31:50] We're going to be partnering.

[01:31:51] In fact, you know, I spoke with Ty today.

[01:31:52] We talked to a number of businesses around, sponsors.

[01:31:56] So, it looks to be a great event.

[01:31:57] And, you know, the main purpose really is to reach the people who don't know what they don't know.

[01:32:02] A lot of us that are recreating and we're in the groups, we're talking to each other, we know each other.

[01:32:06] We're halfway there with the knowledge, at least.

[01:32:09] You know, maybe we know just enough to be dangerous.

[01:32:10] But we're there and we're interested in learning.

[01:32:13] It's the folks that come and they're not really sure what they don't know yet.

[01:32:18] So, we'll do whatever we can to try to reach those people and make the mountains a little bit safer for everybody.

[01:32:24] Yeah, you guys are basically the answer to the question is, like, I want to get into hiking.

[01:32:28] I want to learn about winter hiking.

[01:32:30] What do I do?

[01:32:31] They can network through the hiking buddies.

[01:32:33] And I think that the group, my observation is you've evolved pretty well to do realistic group hikes in a safe as safe as can be manner, which is great.

[01:32:43] And I always tell you guys agree, too.

[01:32:45] Like, it's like if you really want to go crazy, get a guide.

[01:32:47] But this is a good alternative.

[01:32:49] Yeah.

[01:32:49] If you want to start a hike or join a hike through hiking buddies, you can do that on the Facebook group.

[01:32:54] You can post it up and say, I'm doing a turtle pace of, you know, to comes on this day.

[01:32:58] It's a mild, moderate difficulty.

[01:33:02] And then people can join you or you can join in on one of theirs.

[01:33:05] So, if you wanted to learn about the nonprofit side of things, you can go to hiking buddies.org.

[01:33:11] You can see some of the events that we've run, some of the virtual presentations.

[01:33:14] Mike has given his SAR data presentation online.

[01:33:19] You gave that in a meeting.

[01:33:20] So, we have that on our YouTube.

[01:33:22] But, yeah, we're always welcome to suggestions, ideas, things that we can do in the community to, you know, raise awareness and, again, make everybody and everything out there a bit safer.

[01:33:32] And can we get free stuff?

[01:33:35] Who's asking?

[01:33:37] I see those things over there and I'm like, it looks like free stuff.

[01:33:40] All right.

[01:33:40] I don't know.

[01:33:41] Can I throw?

[01:33:42] I wouldn't throw those.

[01:33:43] I would hand them.

[01:33:45] I mean, you could throw them at Andy and Patrick.

[01:33:47] Patrick.

[01:33:50] So, I have, these are headlamps.

[01:33:52] So, one of the big initiatives that we did this year.

[01:33:59] Thanks to Mike for, you know, two headlamps is one headlamp.

[01:34:03] One headlamp is none.

[01:34:05] But we have, we've handed out north of 500 of these headlamps in and around the White Mountains.

[01:34:13] And so, the idea is keep it with you in your backpack.

[01:34:15] Make it extra.

[01:34:16] If you find someone that, you know, potentially looks like they might be getting themselves in trouble, you have a headlamp that you can give them to at least make them aware of the dangers that they might be about to encounter.

[01:34:27] And as we know from Mike's presentation, lack of light is the number two SAR call in the White Mountains.

[01:34:36] It's the number two reason and thereby the number one avoidable reason because a lower leg injury isn't always avoidable.

[01:34:44] That's an accident 99% of times.

[01:34:47] So, in it being number two, it's technically number one of the avoidable calls.

[01:34:52] So, we're trying to do our part in lowering those calls and keeping our rescuers safer.

[01:34:58] Awesome.

[01:34:59] Well, thank you to both of you.

[01:35:00] I get exhausted just thinking about all the volunteer work and the organization that you do.

[01:35:05] I just show up and do what Stomp tells me to do.

[01:35:07] But thank you so much.

[01:35:09] And, Cindy, have you finished a 48 yet?

[01:35:12] You've been working on it.

[01:35:13] I have not.

[01:35:13] I am at 34.

[01:35:15] All right.

[01:35:15] You're getting close.

[01:35:16] My daughter's at 33.

[01:35:17] So, you guys might not have to form an alliance.

[01:35:19] I think, Lynn, you're also around the same, right?

[01:35:21] I am at 34.

[01:35:24] We all should.

[01:35:25] So, you're going to finish next year.

[01:35:27] I'll try.

[01:35:28] Okay.

[01:35:29] Don't come back unless you're finished.

[01:35:30] Okay.

[01:35:31] I'll do my best.

[01:35:32] All right.

[01:35:32] Well, thank you very much, everyone.

[01:35:33] Thank you so much.

[01:35:39] All right.

[01:35:39] Patrick and Andy, we're going to have you both come up together because we're running a little hot.

[01:35:43] So, Patrick, you can have Andy as your emotional support.

[01:35:49] That's good.

[01:35:50] All right.

[01:35:50] So, we have Andy here from the Cog Railway.

[01:35:52] And then we have Patrick from Mount Washington State Park.

[01:35:56] So, these two guys are responsible for a lot of the management and activity that goes on.

[01:36:05] So, basically, you guys are the ones that are responsible for all the crowds on Mount Washington.

[01:36:10] So, we want to thank you for that.

[01:36:12] Well, Andy's responsible partly for the crowds.

[01:36:16] We just deal with them at the State Park.

[01:36:17] There is that nasty element at the auto road, and I've got nothing to do with that.

[01:36:20] Okay.

[01:36:20] All right.

[01:36:21] But one thing that I just want to call out here is, like, the Cog gets a lot of, like,

[01:36:27] hikers sometimes, like, look at the Cog a little side-eyed.

[01:36:30] But Andy's one of us.

[01:36:32] Andy's, like, a hardcore hiker.

[01:36:34] Can you just spout out your resume a little bit?

[01:36:37] Well, I can't not claim to be dabbling in that realm.

[01:36:43] I do like my preference of the Terrifying 25 Trails.

[01:36:46] I like things that are challenging and that call forth a bit of scrambling or something that's a little bit more technical.

[01:36:55] And I do like to – I mean, the main reason why I was drawn to applying at the Cog and taking that as my career path is that it's marrying the passion I have for the mountains

[01:37:07] and the passion I have for not just railroading but actually giving people access to an area that they may not otherwise be able to access.

[01:37:17] You know, getting above treeline and experiencing an alpine zone is not something that everyone is able to do under their own power.

[01:37:24] And that's something that often gets lost with what the Cog and sometimes even the auto road provides is –

[01:37:31] granted, these have been long-established inroads into development on a mountain,

[01:37:35] and some people look upon that with a sour eye, and I understand that.

[01:37:39] But the accessibility issue is something that I think gets pushed to the back,

[01:37:43] and people have an opportunity to experience something they may not otherwise be able to do by locomoting themselves up a trail.

[01:37:50] And I think that that shouldn't always be overlooked in the mission of what service we're providing

[01:37:56] or the road is providing on a mountain that has been developed for now over 150 years.

[01:38:03] Yeah, I think about that when I go to the observatory.

[01:38:06] I usually go a couple times a year, and you see young kids with their parents there.

[01:38:10] It could plant a seed for these young kids to say, like, all right, they saw a hiker,

[01:38:13] now they want to do hiking when they get a little bit older.

[01:38:15] And then it also – like, we're all going to get older, and we're probably going to want to use the auto road or the Cog to get up

[01:38:21] to relive our glory days when we're old and we need hip replacements.

[01:38:26] But can you talk a little bit about – I use the Cog – the lower section of the Cog in the winter.

[01:38:32] Can you – we have the winter coming up here.

[01:38:35] Can you talk a little bit about the offerings that the Cog provides for hikers in the winter?

[01:38:38] Sure.

[01:38:39] So we do provide a parking lot for hikers and skiers at the base station that does offer $10 per person parking,

[01:38:46] and that not only gets you access to trailheads that originate at the Cog property,

[01:38:51] but also access to a building that is not only heated, but there's restrooms that aren't just pit toilets.

[01:38:56] I mean, I do like partaking in a good woods experience evacuating, but not everyone does.

[01:39:03] So there is a flush toilets and food and a heated space to originate your winter trek from.

[01:39:10] And that lot is pretty readily patrolled and monitored, so you can kind of take solace in the fact that your vehicle

[01:39:18] and your belongings are not going to be messed with while you're on our property.

[01:39:22] And we're going to kind of guard that while you're experiencing what you're doing with us.

[01:39:27] And that origination point offers access to both Juul Trail Spurs and Ammanusic Trail Spurs.

[01:39:32] And we've recently taken it upon ourselves to relocate the Juul Trail Spurs so that it no longer crosses the Ammanusic River

[01:39:40] right opposite the A-gate loading platform at the railway with that kind of sort of often, yeah, fun,

[01:39:49] fun is a good way to put it, lamented river crossing right there.

[01:39:53] So now it does go up parallel to the track and then crosses underneath the track structure

[01:39:58] and goes up a previous existing herd path to link into the existing Juul Spur and then to the Juul Trail.

[01:40:03] So we are plowing the base road throughout the winter.

[01:40:06] We're offering access up there with our own personnel so that that is accessible.

[01:40:12] When the state plowed that road, it was considered a low priority on their list.

[01:40:17] After the back entrance of the Mount Washington Hotel, it was kind of neglected,

[01:40:21] and they would just turn the trucks around and back the other way they went.

[01:40:24] Now that we've taken control of plowing and sanding of that road,

[01:40:27] you can pretty much guarantee, unless it's the most adverse of mixed precip events,

[01:40:32] that the road will be passable with pretty much any vehicle you can throw at it,

[01:40:36] four-wheel drive or not.

[01:40:37] And we're committed to keeping that accessible not only for our guests on the train,

[01:40:41] but also for hikers and skiers that may be skinning up.

[01:40:44] Yeah, so in the winter, essentially, you've got, like, you save yourself, like, a quarter or a half-mile hiking.

[01:40:49] Then you've got the bathroom, and then you didn't hype up the food court, too.

[01:40:54] True.

[01:40:55] You can get coffee there, too.

[01:40:56] Yeah.

[01:40:56] My main colleague, Barb, in the kitchen does cook a mean breakfast sandwich.

[01:41:03] So if you want some fuel before your hike or your ski, we have hot food.

[01:41:06] We've got basically a convenience store offering many options that range from, you know, snacks,

[01:41:12] but also some essentials that you may need.

[01:41:14] And even in the gift shop, we have spikes.

[01:41:16] If you've got your spikes, you can go down there,

[01:41:17] and we've got some things that can sort of supplement your gear if you're lacking something.

[01:41:24] So the origination point of the base station,

[01:41:26] it's really the highest elevation access point of all the trailheads in the Whites at 2,700 feet.

[01:41:33] We do have these parking lots we maintain,

[01:41:36] and if you park with us, there are services that go along with that that you have access to.

[01:41:41] So a lot of people, they look at the $10 fee for the parking,

[01:41:44] and they say, well, what are we getting with that?

[01:41:46] And that does supplement our cost for maintaining the roads, the lot, the building,

[01:41:50] and keeping that open because while the trains are running in the winter,

[01:41:53] our revenue source in the winter is not exclusively railroad-based.

[01:41:58] It is often supplemented by the winter recreation that occurs,

[01:42:03] and we do offer access up our track path,

[01:42:07] basically adjacent to the Cog Railway track structure.

[01:42:09] You can ski or hike or skin up right next to the tracks,

[01:42:14] and that path owned by us is open all winter long for access, as it is in the summer.

[01:42:19] And a lot of people opt in on that path because you can't possibly get lost on that route,

[01:42:24] keeping the track structure to your left or right.

[01:42:26] But you can also kind of count on,

[01:42:30] while it's very steep and it's not the most forgiving of trails,

[01:42:33] it will give you direct access,

[01:42:35] and it is the most direct way to the summit if you were to follow it.

[01:42:39] How many trains do you have in your inventory right now that are running up and down?

[01:42:44] So we have seven biodiesels, two steam locomotives.

[01:42:47] The steam locomotives do get shut down for the winter season.

[01:42:50] And in the wintertime, we're running typically one or two trains at a time every hour and 15 minutes.

[01:42:55] So the winter season does scale back the operation.

[01:42:58] Plus, we're only going partway up at 4,000 feet.

[01:43:01] But we do open that up to skiers.

[01:43:02] So if folks don't want to skin up or hike their way up the mountain,

[01:43:06] they can ride the train as a sort of a glorified ski lift and ski down right next to the track.

[01:43:10] So we're offering these options,

[01:43:11] and we are keeping that property use open to folks that park with us

[01:43:15] so that they can recreate, whether that's skiing or hiking or snowshoeing,

[01:43:18] right up next to our track structure on our right of way.

[01:43:21] A lot of hikers will complain and say,

[01:43:23] like, oh, the AMC charges too much,

[01:43:25] and the COG shouldn't be there because leave no trace,

[01:43:28] and all this other stuff.

[01:43:29] My response to that is always, like, well,

[01:43:32] when you look at the need for search and rescue events,

[01:43:35] like the AMC is always there to step up,

[01:43:37] and the COG is always there to step up,

[01:43:39] there's usually at least, you know, anywhere from three to six events

[01:43:42] where the COG is involved with either shuttling people up to Mount Washington to help out

[01:43:47] or picking up a hiker or something like that.

[01:43:49] So can you talk a little bit about the protocol for search and rescue events

[01:43:52] and how that information gets to you guys,

[01:43:54] and then what happens when you're called to help out?

[01:43:58] Sure.

[01:43:59] So when a call goes out for search and rescue,

[01:44:02] it typically will, of course, originate from fish and game,

[01:44:04] and that call will most typically go to our general manager, Ryan,

[01:44:08] and then he'll disseminate that information off into myself,

[01:44:11] and we'll scramble equipment to access whatever is needed,

[01:44:14] whether it's an assist of a hiker on a trail that runs adjacent to the track structure,

[01:44:18] like the west side trail or the gulf side trail,

[01:44:20] or to actually bring rescuers up to a point to deploy into the field up there.

[01:44:25] So that call will come from fish and game,

[01:44:27] will assess what we need to mobilize for equipment,

[01:44:30] and we do have various pieces of equipment that can access the mountain at all times of the year,

[01:44:34] like a hydraulic snow thrower that can clear the tracks of drifts up to four or five feet deep.

[01:44:39] We've got crew that is experienced in, you know,

[01:44:42] actually having, being able to go into these winter conditions

[01:44:46] and help with search and rescues

[01:44:47] and not being far into the idea of where the trails are and what's needed,

[01:44:50] and we can actually plug into providing a quick access point to these rescuers

[01:44:55] where they don't have to hike up to that origination point to jump in

[01:44:58] depending on where the rescue is needed.

[01:45:00] So that call will come from fish and game,

[01:45:02] we'll mobilize equipment,

[01:45:04] and then we'll respond,

[01:45:05] whether it's getting a hiker to the summit,

[01:45:07] sometimes that may be most efficient to bring a hiker to the summit to actually be retrieved,

[01:45:11] sometimes it's more efficient to bring them down,

[01:45:13] and it depends on what the circumstance is,

[01:45:15] what the injury may be,

[01:45:17] and sometimes we're bringing rescuers up for a put-in point,

[01:45:20] like in the incident that happened last February,

[01:45:22] where we're actually bringing folks up to deploy into accessing a trail like the Westside Trail

[01:45:27] to get over to a hiker in distress.

[01:45:30] When you're called to bring the train up to,

[01:45:34] like that February event,

[01:45:36] you're going up to whatever, 5,000, 5,500 feet,

[01:45:39] and the weather conditions are insanely cold.

[01:45:41] Are you the one that's driving the train?

[01:45:43] Quite often, yes.

[01:45:44] In that case, I was,

[01:45:46] and there are all kinds of factors that play into that,

[01:45:49] that are in addition to the human factor of what the person is going into in those conditions,

[01:45:55] and what they have to be prepared for,

[01:45:57] but also the equipment that we're bringing up in terms of the railway,

[01:46:00] and what can happen in terms of fuel, fuel gelling,

[01:46:04] what happens if the equipment were to shut down in those conditions,

[01:46:07] and these are all factors that we have to consider

[01:46:09] when we're putting a piece of equipment into these adverse conditions.

[01:46:12] What can go wrong?

[01:46:13] How do we sort of reverse that wrong

[01:46:17] and be able to get that equipment out of that arena

[01:46:19] with the people that are on board?

[01:46:21] So the human element of being prepared yourself

[01:46:25] to enter into conditions above treeline in full winter

[01:46:29] is always at the forefront of your mind,

[01:46:31] but then we have to consider that additional element

[01:46:33] of what a mechanical piece of diesel equipment has to be able to withstand

[01:46:37] and how you can then rescue that if something were to go wrong with that.

[01:46:40] So you've got that double factor kind of interplaying in your mind

[01:46:44] of the human element but also the mechanical element

[01:46:46] of what you're putting up there,

[01:46:47] and if you're relying on that mechanical element,

[01:46:50] you have to know of what are the fail-safes

[01:46:52] and what are the rescue protocols for the mechanical piece of equipment

[01:46:55] should something go wrong with that.

[01:46:57] Did you feel like you had enough experience with the machine

[01:47:00] or with the train that you could judge when you needed to turn around,

[01:47:04] or was this an event where you were like,

[01:47:05] I'm kind of learning given that we've never really experienced

[01:47:09] this type of mission before?

[01:47:11] So we typically won't.

[01:47:12] So in the case of that February rescue of last year,

[01:47:15] we were putting the train up in winds that were in excess of

[01:47:18] really Category 2 hurricane force winds

[01:47:21] gusting into the 90-mile-an-hour threshold,

[01:47:23] and typically we will not run trains in that condition.

[01:47:26] So if a customer buys a ticket and the winds are in that sort of scope,

[01:47:30] the train will terminate below where those winds are happening.

[01:47:32] So we're already exceeding what our normal offering is

[01:47:36] in consideration of the fact that it is a rescue in an emergency situation.

[01:47:41] The cold and the windchill factor in terms of how the warmth is being sapped

[01:47:44] from everything and the way that that fuel can gel is considerable as well.

[01:47:49] So we typically wouldn't run a train in that either.

[01:47:51] But we do run missions where we keep the track clear to a certain point

[01:47:54] throughout the winter so we can access things,

[01:47:57] whether that's for our own purposes in a business sense

[01:47:59] or for assisting in a search and rescue.

[01:48:02] So we know what the equipment is capable of,

[01:48:05] but I will say that in that event and some other events that we've participated in,

[01:48:11] we are operating the equipment outside of the norm

[01:48:13] of what we would normally ask it to do.

[01:48:15] So we are capable of knowing what it's able to withstand,

[01:48:20] but we are asking more of it than whatever would be asked in a customer offering.

[01:48:25] Well, it's interesting.

[01:48:26] So you obviously came back from that one.

[01:48:28] Did you, was it even close to gelling up or were you, were you,

[01:48:33] did you feel pretty comfortable that you made the right call?

[01:48:35] I felt comfortable.

[01:48:36] So I'm sitting there watching the temperature gauge on the screen of the locomotive

[01:48:39] and I can see what the tank temperature is, the fuel.

[01:48:42] I can see what the intake temp is.

[01:48:44] And I know when we have to keep moving.

[01:48:46] So basically sitting idle is what the detriment is.

[01:48:49] So as rescuers are deploying on the West Side Trail

[01:48:52] and we're getting the litter off and everything ready,

[01:48:54] I can keep an eye on what's going on.

[01:48:56] And I'm in communication with them and I'm informing them,

[01:48:59] I may need to move the train.

[01:49:01] Depending on the access and the timing it takes to deploy everything,

[01:49:04] I may need to move the locomotive so that I can get some heat going in the engine bay

[01:49:07] and keep the RPMs up.

[01:49:10] We were able to get everything dispatched in a manner that was timely enough

[01:49:14] that that wasn't an issue.

[01:49:16] And we did a lot of coming and going because we were shuttling teams of rescuers up

[01:49:19] certain amounts at a time.

[01:49:21] So we're bringing folks up in what would fit in the cab

[01:49:24] and then going down to a kind of a point where they were all accumulated

[01:49:29] and then bringing another team up to the West Side Trail access point

[01:49:33] at around 5,500 feet.

[01:49:34] So it was enough chance to keep the locomotive in motion that it didn't gel up.

[01:49:38] But the temperature did get to points where I was like,

[01:49:41] okay, I'm not super comfortable staying here for that much longer.

[01:49:44] And I did communicate that.

[01:49:46] So we did kind of base our timing off of what I felt was best for the equipment

[01:49:51] and what I saw on those temperatures on the screen there.

[01:49:54] Awesome.

[01:49:55] Well, we appreciate you stepping in to help out.

[01:49:57] And, you know, I always I just remind people you guys are there to help.

[01:50:00] But just changing topics for a minute, like I've hiked up like I've done a presidential traverse

[01:50:06] and then I get to that section where I'm like parallel to the tracks

[01:50:10] and I see like the Cog Railway and I'm puffing my chest out because I'm hiking

[01:50:14] and all these people are sitting in there like looking at me

[01:50:17] and they're probably saying like, what a badass.

[01:50:20] Do you guys like point out like when you're bringing the tourists up,

[01:50:26] do you point out and be like, look at those badasses?

[01:50:28] So the most common thing that is said by Brakeman is,

[01:50:34] we do have wildlife on the mountain and here's one now.

[01:50:38] And it is the wild and elusive hiker.

[01:50:40] And often that favor of pointing out the hikers returned with a gesture of a full moon.

[01:50:45] So we're often called the railway to the moon for a reason,

[01:50:49] which was a reference to our founders,

[01:50:52] what was thought of as sort of painfully absurd notion at the time

[01:50:56] to build a railway up the mountain in the manner that it was done,

[01:50:59] the railway to the moon.

[01:51:00] Now the railway to the moon has come to be known as the either cheeky, right,

[01:51:06] or perhaps disparaging show of the backside to the train as it goes by.

[01:51:13] In the sort of loose suggestion that those that are riding the train

[01:51:16] are less worthy of their mountain washing experience than those that have hiked up the mountain.

[01:51:22] And I understand that as a hiker myself.

[01:51:24] I understand that feeling.

[01:51:27] However, we've kind of taken it in stride and looked at it as humorous.

[01:51:30] It's the only time where it's not as humorous as if someone takes a more grotesque display

[01:51:37] of their display of their backside, which sort of draws the ire of the train crew.

[01:51:42] And I can touch on that as well if you want.

[01:51:45] Yeah, let's skip that part.

[01:51:47] Let's not touch that.

[01:51:49] Yeah, but I think the key thing is that the cog, you can make the argument around leave no trace,

[01:51:55] but there's a history, a long history there of why we've got a facility up on Mount Washington

[01:52:01] and the cog and the auto road.

[01:52:03] And I think, Patrick, you're the guy that is basically the...

[01:52:07] Are you the adult in charge of the whole thing on top of there?

[01:52:10] So you're in charge of the Mount Washington State Park, right?

[01:52:14] Yeah, unfortunately for everyone here, I am the adult, quote-unquote, in charge of the

[01:52:20] Summit of Mount Washington.

[01:52:22] Well, you intimidate me, so hopefully you're scaring them, too.

[01:52:28] How many in here knew the Summit of Mount Washington's State Park?

[01:52:34] That's a lot of hands, and I like it.

[01:52:36] How many only learned that because of my appearance on Slasher before?

[01:52:42] Okay, a couple.

[01:52:43] That's good.

[01:52:45] Almost 60 acres at the top of Mount Washington is owned, operated, maintained year-round,

[01:52:52] round the clock, every day of the year by the state of New Hampshire.

[01:52:56] It's a state park.

[01:52:58] We are part of the mountains community.

[01:53:00] Mount Washington is a true community.

[01:53:02] You know the Mount Washington Cog Railway.

[01:53:05] You know the Mount Washington Auto Road.

[01:53:06] You certainly know the Mount Washington Observatory and all the valuable work that they do.

[01:53:12] The state park's part of that.

[01:53:14] So when you come up to the top of Mount Washington and you purchase your soda, hot dog, pizza, that's all from the state park.

[01:53:22] And that keeps the lights on.

[01:53:24] It keeps my mediocre salary going as well as our staff and pays for all the supplies.

[01:53:31] But we're up there year-round.

[01:53:33] But we're up there year-round.

[01:53:34] Every day, every hour of the year, the state park is up there alongside the observatory, focused on not the weather,

[01:53:40] even though everything we do revolves around the weather, but that's the charge of the obvs.

[01:53:45] But the state park staff is up there taking care of all the systems, the facilities, and also participating in search and rescue.

[01:53:56] I am in a good audience right now.

[01:54:00] You are all my peers.

[01:54:02] I'm a hiker.

[01:54:03] I'm an outdoor enthusiast and nature lover.

[01:54:10] I have decades of search and rescue that I think I was burnt out on before I got to Mount Washington.

[01:54:17] And I love beer.

[01:54:19] So I'm in a good crowd tonight.

[01:54:23] Well, we appreciate you coming.

[01:54:25] And a couple of questions I had for you is, so the last couple of years, have you seen an increase, decrease in crowds,

[01:54:31] or is it pretty steady at this point on top of the mountain?

[01:54:34] Mount Washington State Park, between mid-May to mid-October, give or take when we're open,

[01:54:41] we're inundated by over 300,000 people a year.

[01:54:45] Sometimes hard to tell what's busy and what isn't at that point.

[01:54:50] I would say that the numbers have been pretty steady, though, for us in regards to our visitation and the best we can estimate.

[01:54:58] And we've talked about this before.

[01:54:59] You and your staff are often faced with the scenario of people that have overestimated their trips.

[01:55:06] And logistically, they just don't realize that maybe they have one person in the group that's going to burn out.

[01:55:11] And oftentimes, you're the ones that are facilitating trying to get them down on the cog or trying to get them down through the auto road

[01:55:18] or telling them, like, look, there's no other options and you've got to get moving.

[01:55:22] Can you talk a little bit about the philosophy on how you manage that?

[01:55:27] The philosophy is you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

[01:55:37] You should get that above the door.

[01:55:41] We might have to.

[01:55:43] Yeah, we don't run a trauma center at the top of Mount Washington.

[01:55:47] We are prepared and respond to every type of medical emergency and hiking emergency year-round at the top of the mountain.

[01:55:55] But our medical approach is to stabilize and evacuate and get you into better care.

[01:56:03] What we often see are, you know, ill-prepared hikes, bad judgment, the assumption that a ride down is available when it isn't.

[01:56:17] So, you know, we have to work with people often in regards to preparing them or helping them self-evacuate to get down off of Mount Washington.

[01:56:31] I have referred to what we do, particularly with the hiking community, unfortunately,

[01:56:38] because while we do deal with Andy's customers on a medical sense and also the auto road sometimes,

[01:56:46] but it's a compassion killer.

[01:56:48] It's really tough for our staff to continue to run an operation like we do at the top of Mount Washington

[01:56:57] and then get, you know, situations at the end of our day or after hours where we're running to helping folks out in situations that were plainly avoidable.

[01:57:13] And, you know, we obviously navigate that the best we can, but it's a challenging position to be in.

[01:57:20] And obviously, we have never sent somebody off the mountain that has needed additional help or was put in more peril.

[01:57:28] But it's just it's a balance of bailing people out and getting a reputation that don't worry about it.

[01:57:35] The state park will bring you down versus educating and making sure people are leaving Mount Washington.

[01:57:48] And making sure that they're also better educated and more knowledgeable the next time they go out, wherever those hikes are.

[01:58:05] But we really deal with it all too often.

[01:58:09] In fact, after the hiking hiker shuttle shuts down for the day, assuming they're operating on the auto road and the last cog comes up and leaves,

[01:58:21] we on the summit refer to that as the witching hour.

[01:58:25] And that's when you see somebody staggering into the door or up to our door, exhausted.

[01:58:32] And it's just up to us to help them out.

[01:58:37] And, of course, that's what we're there for.

[01:58:38] We work for the state of New Hampshire.

[01:58:40] We're in public service and we're there to in the interest of the public safety.

[01:58:44] But that doesn't make any less frustrating at times.

[01:58:47] And I can tell you our colleagues at New Hampshire Fish and Game deal with compassion killing and burnout based on the number of responses we have.

[01:58:59] Your presentation earlier was great.

[01:59:02] I can, you know, and it's based on the numbers that are available, Mike.

[01:59:06] But there are so many responses that go undocumented that people don't realize or know about all over the state, not just in the White Mountains or even at Manadnock.

[01:59:23] But there's a lot.

[01:59:25] It's a scary proposition because you have to bat 1,000.

[01:59:29] So, basically, like the one time you say, you know, look, you've got to hike down.

[01:59:33] It's 5 o'clock and something happens with that person.

[01:59:35] It's like you've got to second guess yourself.

[01:59:37] So, it must be like an incredibly difficult decision train for you guys to work for.

[01:59:41] It is.

[01:59:42] It's a lot to take on.

[01:59:43] It's a big responsibility.

[01:59:44] And we have to have tough discussions with people.

[01:59:47] And there's a way to navigate that when somebody just doesn't want to do it anymore and you have to prepare them to help themselves out.

[01:59:56] But I found out, I didn't know this, a couple years ago from our colleagues, New Hampshire Fish and Game.

[02:00:03] They've gotten a number of 911 calls from hikers who are hiking down the Mount Washington Auto Road looking for additional help.

[02:00:10] Fish and Game has asked them in the past, did you talk to the state park staff at the summit?

[02:00:15] When the answer is yes, the state park staff has directed them to hike down either the east or the west side, the trail adjacent to the cog tracks.

[02:00:26] Fish and Game has enough faith in our judgment to tell those folks, if the state park told you that, keep going.

[02:00:36] So, not knowing that, you know, we're not privy to those calls, but that gave me some confidence in how our staff addresses the public

[02:00:47] and how we help people out to know that we're making good calls.

[02:00:51] Yeah, that's, I wouldn't want to be the one in charge of making that call for sure.

[02:00:55] But just changing the topic for a second, now that we're approaching winter, is it your group that's in charge of the shuttling to get up to the summit?

[02:01:06] Or is that done by the auto road?

[02:01:08] Or how does that, how does that manage?

[02:01:10] In regards to search and rescue responses?

[02:01:11] No, just getting the staff up there.

[02:01:12] Oh, well, the state park is, we have our own travel capabilities parallel to the Mount Washington Observatory.

[02:01:22] So, the state park, like the observatory, has to deal with the same conditions in the shoulder season and throughout the winter

[02:01:27] in regards to our travel up and down the mountain.

[02:01:30] So, we each have our own vehicles.

[02:01:32] Sometimes we've got to deal with tire chains, snow cats.

[02:01:37] The state park has a snow cat based on all the hot dogs you guys buy.

[02:01:41] And the observatory has their own snow cat.

[02:01:45] But the obvs in the state park work closely and communicate closely over the winter.

[02:01:49] And when we can collaborate or join up in tandem or help each other out with travels, we definitely do that.

[02:01:57] Awesome.

[02:01:57] And how frequently do you go up in the winter?

[02:01:59] I'm up there weekly for multi-day shifts.

[02:02:03] The observatory is throughout the year up there week on, week off.

[02:02:07] They change on Wednesdays.

[02:02:10] None of us want to be up there whole week.

[02:02:12] So, we work more on a four-day on, three-day off schedule, which works for us.

[02:02:17] But the mountain doesn't always cooperate with that schedule.

[02:02:20] And when you get hurricane winds, do you usually send the new employees out there to, like, just tell them to, like, go water the flower on the other side of the parking lot?

[02:02:32] No.

[02:02:33] You don't have to answer.

[02:02:35] No.

[02:02:36] I'll tell you, it's a hell of a work commute.

[02:02:38] Yes.

[02:02:39] Sometimes, even in the summer.

[02:02:40] But, yeah.

[02:02:42] So, those four days on sometimes become five days, become six days because the mountain's weather doesn't always cooperate with our schedule.

[02:02:50] So, that's something that we all take on.

[02:02:52] And in the winter months, there's usually two of us on the summit at a time from the state park side, maintaining everything adjacent to our colleagues at the observatory.

[02:03:03] The door between our independent living quarters is usually left at least a cat width wide so that Nimbus has free reign of the building.

[02:03:14] And, uh...

[02:03:15] Who owns the cat?

[02:03:16] Is it your cat or is it the weather observatory?

[02:03:19] The state of New Hampshire.

[02:03:20] Is it the state park that owns the cat?

[02:03:23] No.

[02:03:23] It's a good question.

[02:03:24] So, over the years...

[02:03:25] Imagine if they had a custody battle.

[02:03:27] I know.

[02:03:27] That would be such a great court case.

[02:03:29] Well, yeah, I know my...

[02:03:30] I have got...

[02:03:31] We have colleagues from the Mount Washington Observatory here.

[02:03:34] The cats have been a part of the Mount Washington Observatory.

[02:03:38] Cameron owns the cat.

[02:03:40] No, she wants a state park cat.

[02:03:42] The OBS owns the cat.

[02:03:44] Okay.

[02:03:45] The state park benefits in that we get time with Nimbus and Marty and Inga and the cats prior...

[02:03:53] The cats seem to prefer the state park side of the building.

[02:03:59] But the litter box is on the observatory side of the building.

[02:04:03] So, we get that benefit.

[02:04:05] Does the cat ever find any mouse?

[02:04:08] That's what they're there for.

[02:04:09] Oh, really?

[02:04:10] There's a good number up there?

[02:04:11] A little while.

[02:04:12] Fewer.

[02:04:12] Yeah.

[02:04:13] Yes.

[02:04:13] Nimbus is a little bit of a dumpster diver.

[02:04:15] We've got to keep an eye on him.

[02:04:17] But, yeah, the cats...

[02:04:19] When the Mount Washington Observatory was established in 1932, they had cats at the top of Mount Washington

[02:04:25] for two reasons.

[02:04:26] For companionship and for rodent control.

[02:04:30] And now, at the end of 2024, those two boxes remain checked.

[02:04:36] Nimbus is a solid mouser.

[02:04:37] He's even caught flying squirrels, which are cute but nasty.

[02:04:44] Yeah, right.

[02:04:46] And then, for the observatory, also, and prior, Marty checks the marketing box as well, which

[02:04:52] we can't blame them for.

[02:04:54] At one point, there were many cats at the top of Mount Washington,

[02:04:58] and during the big wind,

[02:05:03] 231 mile-per-hour wind that was recorded on April 12, 1934

[02:05:07] by the Mount Washington Observatory,

[02:05:10] that remains the highest wind ever recorded,

[02:05:13] still with human beings present,

[02:05:16] and with cats present,

[02:05:20] and within the history of cats at the top of Mount Washington,

[02:05:25] my favorite cat name out of all of them

[02:05:29] that I've known about or heard about

[02:05:32] has to be Emma Nusance.

[02:05:34] That's a good one.

[02:05:35] That has to be one of the best cat names

[02:05:38] for the top of Mount Washington,

[02:05:39] but yeah, the cat's owned by the OBS.

[02:05:42] That is the Observatory's cat.

[02:05:44] The state park staff continue to bond,

[02:05:48] and benefit from the cat as well,

[02:05:52] since we're up there alongside the Observatory,

[02:05:55] and get to benefit from the cat's presence as well.

[02:05:59] And if Cameron has her way at any point,

[02:06:02] maybe we'll have a state park cat,

[02:06:03] and Nimbus will have a friend at some point.

[02:06:05] Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

[02:06:07] That's a good idea.

[02:06:08] Well, we want to thank both of you for coming up here,

[02:06:13] and I think that it's important to educate

[02:06:14] because I will tell you,

[02:06:15] there's so many hikers that I see on social media,

[02:06:18] and I've even talked to some,

[02:06:20] and they just don't have an understanding

[02:06:22] about really what the background is

[02:06:25] for the people that are working on Mount Washington,

[02:06:28] involved in the COG,

[02:06:30] how critical you guys are around search and rescue

[02:06:33] and supporting the hikers,

[02:06:34] and I don't know if they always connect,

[02:06:36] that you guys are hikers.

[02:06:37] You're part of our community.

[02:06:39] Absolutely.

[02:06:39] And we want to get that message out,

[02:06:41] and we thank you for the hot dogs,

[02:06:43] and we thank you for all the search and rescue stuff.

[02:06:45] You're welcome.

[02:06:46] You're welcome.

[02:06:46] Yes.

[02:06:48] I also forgot to mention earlier

[02:06:50] when I said I was in this safe space of people

[02:06:52] checking off all those boxes,

[02:06:54] me being an avid hiker,

[02:06:57] I want to say an avid beer drinker.

[02:06:59] I'm a beer enthusiast.

[02:07:02] I also am on the board of directors

[02:07:04] for the New Hampshire Outdoor Council,

[02:07:06] and I cannot thank everybody here enough

[02:07:09] and thank you guys with their podcast,

[02:07:13] Reckless in Full Conditions,

[02:07:15] all the support for the New Hampshire Outdoor Council

[02:07:18] and having firsthand experience

[02:07:22] and knowing the funding, where it's going,

[02:07:26] how it's supporting the search and rescue community

[02:07:28] and being directly tied into the search and rescue community

[02:07:31] on Mount Washington

[02:07:32] as well as on the New Hampshire Outdoor Council.

[02:07:35] I am so grateful to everybody under this tent with me

[02:07:39] and elsewhere in your support of what we do

[02:07:44] in supporting your hiking community

[02:07:46] and the safety of people experiencing

[02:07:49] and enjoying our mountains.

[02:07:51] Awesome.

[02:07:51] Well, thank you so much to both of you.

[02:07:53] Appreciate it.

[02:07:55] Excellent.

[02:07:55] So I think that we've got one more guest here.

[02:07:58] So Michael Carman, are you around?

[02:08:00] Michael from the Weather Observatory?

[02:08:01] Here we go.

[02:08:02] Oh, he's a tall guy.

[02:08:04] Everybody's tall to me, though.

[02:08:05] Yeah, and just a reminder,

[02:08:07] we do have the raffles.

[02:08:08] If you haven't picked up a raffle yet,

[02:08:10] a raffle ticket,

[02:08:12] we will be pulling the tickets after this guest.

[02:08:17] And I think, Ty, if you want to come up,

[02:08:19] we're going to do a Q&A with you.

[02:08:20] So, Michael, what's the deal?

[02:08:22] Are we getting snow this winter or what?

[02:08:24] What?

[02:08:25] That's the $50,000 question.

[02:08:26] So the Farmer's Almanac said it was going to be wet and wintry.

[02:08:30] But that's kind of good.

[02:08:32] The Farmer's Almanac,

[02:08:33] that's not as scientific as you guys, right?

[02:08:35] I was going to say, yeah,

[02:08:35] if you want to get a meteorologist's blood boil,

[02:08:38] start talking about the Farmer's Almanac.

[02:08:40] Yeah, absolutely.

[02:08:41] So we're in a drought period right now.

[02:08:43] So do you have any commentary

[02:08:44] about what we're experiencing right now?

[02:08:46] Is it rare that we're seeing these dry conditions?

[02:08:49] Yeah, it's pretty rare, pretty dramatic right now

[02:08:53] with the lack of precipitation we've been seeing.

[02:08:55] And it's not just New England, obviously.

[02:08:57] It's most of the country, in fact,

[02:08:59] that's been seeing these conditions.

[02:09:01] So we're hopeful that that pattern's going to break.

[02:09:04] It likely will.

[02:09:06] So we'll see what happens.

[02:09:08] If you get enough snow over the winter,

[02:09:10] would that wipe out all the drought conditions

[02:09:12] that we're dealing with right now?

[02:09:14] Eventually it will.

[02:09:15] Eventually it will.

[02:09:15] At the moment, though, we're...

[02:09:19] Mount Washington's another story,

[02:09:21] but in New England in general

[02:09:23] and certainly in the mid-Atlantic states right now,

[02:09:25] it's going to take a while for that to be wiped out

[02:09:30] because of how far of a deficit we've been seeing.

[02:09:33] Wildfires in New Jersey, things like that.

[02:09:35] All the results of these drought conditions.

[02:09:38] And what are you looking at as far as the longer term?

[02:09:42] Is it possible to forecast the longer term

[02:09:45] over a two or three month period

[02:09:46] so you can get a sense of what the winter is?

[02:09:48] Or is that just like an exercise in futility?

[02:09:51] It's actually not.

[02:09:52] So when meteorologists look at the weather,

[02:09:55] they look at it sort of in both the short term

[02:09:57] and the long term.

[02:09:58] So short term are the weather models

[02:10:01] you'll hear a lot about on the Weather Channel

[02:10:04] or wherever you get your weather from.

[02:10:06] And they're looking the next two days, four days,

[02:10:09] week out, that sort of thing.

[02:10:11] That's one set of computer models.

[02:10:13] That's great for looking at very fine resolution.

[02:10:17] That's great for looking at what's it going to do

[02:10:19] at 7 p.m. tomorrow night, that sort of thing.

[02:10:22] But there's another set of computer models

[02:10:25] that are climatological.

[02:10:26] And those can look out months in advance.

[02:10:30] And so when climate predictors sit down

[02:10:35] to look at what kind of winter we're going to have,

[02:10:38] that sort of thing,

[02:10:39] they're looking at those kind of climatological models.

[02:10:42] And yeah, so they're more broad

[02:10:45] and they're looking for patterns and anomalies

[02:10:48] and temperature and precipitation

[02:10:49] and signals of those sorts of things.

[02:10:52] And so, yeah, you can predict out,

[02:10:55] again, with sort of a general sense

[02:10:57] what, say, the winter is going to look like.

[02:11:00] There's a couple of indicators like,

[02:11:02] what's El Nino doing?

[02:11:03] What's La Nina doing?

[02:11:04] That sort of thing.

[02:11:05] What's the North Atlantic Oscillation doing?

[02:11:07] Those are all indicators that climatological predictors

[02:11:10] are sort of looking at

[02:11:11] when they make a seasonal forecast,

[02:11:14] is what we call it.

[02:11:15] And specific to Mount Washington and the White Mountains,

[02:11:17] what are you predicting for this?

[02:11:19] Or what are you forecasting for the winter season?

[02:11:23] Yeah, yeah.

[02:11:23] More of the same?

[02:11:24] Is Stomp going to be able to go snowmobiling or what?

[02:11:28] Say, don't hold me to this.

[02:11:29] But no, it's, yeah, it's a tricky business,

[02:11:32] especially in a place where outdoor recreation

[02:11:34] is so much a part of everything around here.

[02:11:38] So it's, you know, those forecasts are taken very,

[02:11:42] very seriously.

[02:11:42] But yeah, as far as this winter goes,

[02:11:46] there's no, this is going to be a little bit,

[02:11:50] not exciting maybe, but not breaking news or anything,

[02:11:53] but there's no strong indicators either way

[02:11:55] of any, anything that's coming this winter.

[02:11:57] So there's nothing to suggest we're going to have,

[02:11:59] say, a snowier than average winter.

[02:12:02] There are some indicators to suggest

[02:12:04] that the first part of the winter

[02:12:05] is going to be a little bit above average

[02:12:07] temperature wise in New England.

[02:12:09] And not surprising, that's kind of what we've been seeing

[02:12:12] to start off our kind of fall and early winter season here.

[02:12:16] Even though Mount Washington had its sixth snowiest October on record,

[02:12:22] didn't really necessarily feel that way

[02:12:23] because then we'd have these big warm swings in temperature

[02:12:27] and it's been erased.

[02:12:28] So it's been an interesting fall, but, but yeah,

[02:12:31] so it looks, you know, in general,

[02:12:34] a warmer start to the winter that looks to be fading

[02:12:37] as we get more into the, you know,

[02:12:39] sort of February, March timeframe.

[02:12:40] It looks like those temperatures

[02:12:41] will kind of come back towards average.

[02:12:44] As far as precipitation goes, you know,

[02:12:47] there's no big indicator for the early part of the winter,

[02:12:50] but it does look like the later part of the winter

[02:12:53] could be above average precipitation wise,

[02:12:56] which if temperatures line up,

[02:12:57] that could mean a little bit more snow

[02:12:59] once we get into February and March.

[02:13:01] All right.

[02:13:01] Cause I want to go sledding down the cog.

[02:13:02] So let's, let's hold for it.

[02:13:06] How, how long have you been working for the observatory?

[02:13:11] So yeah, my, my journey with the observatory

[02:13:13] is a little bit unique.

[02:13:14] So I was an observer, a weather observer

[02:13:16] for almost 10 years.

[02:13:18] I left the observatory a few years ago

[02:13:21] and I've just recently come back in this new role

[02:13:23] as summit weather operations manager.

[02:13:26] I couldn't stay away.

[02:13:28] I, you know, I spent 10 years living

[02:13:29] and working on top of Mount Washington.

[02:13:31] I did pretty much every job up there

[02:13:34] that you can do for the observatory.

[02:13:36] Um, and then, you know, left to,

[02:13:39] to dabble in some, you know, STEM education work.

[02:13:41] But, uh, I, I came back, um, just recently

[02:13:44] and, um, I'm, I'm excited to be back

[02:13:47] sort of in this new role.

[02:13:49] I'm based out of the Valley,

[02:13:50] but I do spend quite a bit of time

[02:13:52] still supporting the summit staff on top.

[02:13:54] Now, do you ever, like when you,

[02:13:55] when you're working at, like if I,

[02:13:56] I just think about like,

[02:13:57] if I was working up there and I had a day off

[02:13:59] or I had like free,

[02:14:00] I'd be like, all right, I'm going to go out

[02:14:02] and then I'm going to like go down the, um,

[02:14:05] Spinks trail and then I'm going to cut back up

[02:14:07] while I'm, I'm going to like do some crazy stuff

[02:14:10] or I'm even just going to go sled down the car.

[02:14:12] Like, do you ever just have a free day from the top

[02:14:14] where you can just go hike?

[02:14:16] And do you do that stuff or am I crazy?

[02:14:18] Oh no, no, no.

[02:14:19] That's one of the perks of the job.

[02:14:20] Um, I got super spoiled being a weather observer

[02:14:25] and my first, you know,

[02:14:26] I'm originally from central New Jersey.

[02:14:28] Had never hiked, never skied,

[02:14:30] never did any of that

[02:14:31] before I came up to the white mountains.

[02:14:33] So a little bit of a culture shock

[02:14:34] when I first came, came up here,

[02:14:36] but, uh, I got really spoiled

[02:14:38] because my first experiences hiking

[02:14:40] were starting from the summit of Mount Washington

[02:14:42] and hiking down to lakes of the clouds

[02:14:44] or hiking over to Mount clay

[02:14:45] or hiking out to boot spur.

[02:14:47] And yeah, that's definitely,

[02:14:49] it's not only done, it's encouraged,

[02:14:51] especially as Patrick mentioned.

[02:14:52] I mean, the observers are up there

[02:14:53] for a week at a time.

[02:14:55] A lot of times those days are foggy.

[02:14:57] You're not going anywhere.

[02:14:59] Um, if you're lucky, it's cold

[02:15:00] and you're not going,

[02:15:01] you're only going outside the building

[02:15:03] to do weather observations every hour.

[02:15:05] And that's as far as you can go,

[02:15:07] you know, 50 feet from the deck door or whatever.

[02:15:09] So, um, yeah, when the weather's nice,

[02:15:11] we definitely encourage, you know,

[02:15:12] the observers get out, explore,

[02:15:14] um, and, you know, enjoy where you are

[02:15:17] and take it all in.

[02:15:19] So, yeah, I did quite a bit of that,

[02:15:20] um, when I was during my time working on the top

[02:15:23] and, um, and yeah, I, I, some of my,

[02:15:26] some of my best hiking memories are just,

[02:15:29] and it's, it's, it's really fun too.

[02:15:31] When you're, you know, you get off shift

[02:15:33] at four or five o'clock in the evening

[02:15:34] in the summertime,

[02:15:35] you have a couple hours before dinner.

[02:15:37] And so you're hike, you hike down

[02:15:40] and then you start hiking back up the summit cone.

[02:15:42] Um, and then you have some hikers

[02:15:44] looking at you strangely, like,

[02:15:46] what are you doing up here so late?

[02:15:47] Like, do you know what you're doing?

[02:15:48] Do you know where you're going?

[02:15:50] I tell them, mind their business.

[02:15:52] And I'm like, I actually have a pretty unique situation.

[02:15:54] I do belong up here.

[02:15:55] I promise.

[02:15:56] I know where, I know where I am.

[02:15:57] I know I have shelter to go back to.

[02:16:00] It's, it's up on top.

[02:16:01] So now that you're a big shot manager,

[02:16:02] you don't have to change the litter box anymore, right?

[02:16:05] Um, well, actually I did have to change

[02:16:09] the litter box the other day, actually.

[02:16:10] You gotta delegate that stuff.

[02:16:11] You gotta delegate that.

[02:16:12] One of the fun things I get to do now,

[02:16:15] which I just got to do this past,

[02:16:17] this past week is, um, the day,

[02:16:20] the night before shift change,

[02:16:21] I got a call from a weather observer

[02:16:22] and said he wasn't feeling well

[02:16:24] and couldn't go up.

[02:16:25] And we were super short staffed.

[02:16:27] And so I had to scramble,

[02:16:29] get a pack together and go up to the summit

[02:16:31] for a couple of days and, and cover things.

[02:16:33] So, um, which, which is, is very fun for me

[02:16:36] since I'm not up there all the time anymore

[02:16:38] to be able to, to jump right back into it.

[02:16:40] Awesome.

[02:16:41] What's the deal with the volunteer?

[02:16:42] So I was up there last year

[02:16:44] and this lady was like walking around

[02:16:45] and I was talking to her,

[02:16:46] it was a beautiful bluebird day.

[02:16:48] And I was like, oh, what do you,

[02:16:49] do you work up here?

[02:16:50] Cause she wasn't, she didn't have a backpack

[02:16:51] or anything.

[02:16:52] And she was like, oh, I'm a volunteer.

[02:16:53] I'm, I'm here cooking.

[02:16:55] So how did, like, if somebody is a good cook,

[02:16:57] how do they get to like work up there?

[02:16:59] Like stay up there?

[02:17:00] Yeah.

[02:17:00] The volunteer program, it's, it's pretty cool.

[02:17:02] Actually it's, um, so if you're a member,

[02:17:05] the observatory is a, is a member

[02:17:06] supported organization.

[02:17:07] So if you're a member, um, you can,

[02:17:10] you know, get on the list to do a volunteer

[02:17:13] stint up there.

[02:17:14] Um, so usually it's you with one other person.

[02:17:16] You come up for a week, um, right along

[02:17:19] with the observers.

[02:17:20] Um, and yeah, the deal is you're up there,

[02:17:23] you do cooking and cleaning,

[02:17:24] you do some work in the museum.

[02:17:26] Um, if it's open, you know, during the summertime,

[02:17:28] um, and sort of as a trade-off, you know,

[02:17:31] in your free time, you get to, you know,

[02:17:33] go out and hike if the weather,

[02:17:34] if the weather allows it.

[02:17:36] And just also, you know, spend time

[02:17:37] with the observers, spend time getting

[02:17:39] to know the organization you're supporting,

[02:17:42] um, talk to them about their life.

[02:17:44] If there's really cool, you know,

[02:17:45] weather happening, obviously you get

[02:17:47] to experience that up there.

[02:17:48] Um, if, so if you're a first time

[02:17:51] volunteer, you're kind of applying to be

[02:17:53] a first time volunteer.

[02:17:53] We start you out in the summertime

[02:17:55] to make sure, um, cause it's not for

[02:17:58] everyone. Um, so if you get up there

[02:18:00] and realize, which this has happened

[02:18:02] before, if you get up there and realize,

[02:18:04] yeah, maybe this is not for me.

[02:18:06] Um, it's easier to get you down

[02:18:08] in the summertime.

[02:18:09] Um, but if you can hack it during

[02:18:10] the summer week, then you can sign up

[02:18:12] for, for a winter week, um,

[02:18:13] and experience sort of Mount Washington

[02:18:16] at its fullest.

[02:18:17] So it's a pretty long waiting list

[02:18:19] from what I, from what I understand.

[02:18:21] Um, so if you're interested,

[02:18:23] it's definitely something to get on

[02:18:24] sooner rather than later,

[02:18:25] but, um, it's a really unique experience

[02:18:28] and really cool too, for the observers

[02:18:29] to get to know the people

[02:18:31] that are supporting them, um, as well

[02:18:33] and, and live with them and converse

[02:18:35] with them, which is, you know,

[02:18:36] unique for a nonprofit, I think.

[02:18:38] Awesome. And we appreciate,

[02:18:39] so the, the, uh, we tell everybody

[02:18:41] like, make sure you check the, uh,

[02:18:43] higher summit forecast.

[02:18:44] Are you the guy that actually writes

[02:18:45] those or do you, you have a team now

[02:18:47] on you cause you're a big shot

[02:18:48] now, right?

[02:18:49] So you have a team that does that.

[02:18:50] Something like that.

[02:18:51] Um, so I used to, I used to do

[02:18:53] daily forecasting when I was an observer.

[02:18:55] Now it's a fill in basis.

[02:18:56] So when I was up there this week,

[02:18:57] I did do a forecast.

[02:18:59] And so I'm dusting off, you know,

[02:19:01] a little bit.

[02:19:01] I'm getting the rust off from,

[02:19:03] from not forecasting for a couple of years,

[02:19:05] but it comes, it comes back pretty quickly

[02:19:07] if you're a meteorologist and,

[02:19:08] you know, it never,

[02:19:09] the bug for forecasting

[02:19:11] and knowing what's going on

[02:19:12] and being generally aware of the weather

[02:19:14] just kind of never goes away.

[02:19:16] Awesome. Well, we appreciate

[02:19:17] all the work that you guys do

[02:19:18] and I definitely check out the forecast

[02:19:20] and make sure that I'm not going up there.

[02:19:22] If it's just like,

[02:19:22] oh, it's going to be a hundred miles an hour,

[02:19:23] I get mad at you guys

[02:19:24] because I'm like, I want to go hiking,

[02:19:26] but I definitely, I'm like,

[02:19:26] all right, I guess I'll go to like

[02:19:29] the moats or Kierosaris or something

[02:19:31] instead of you guys.

[02:19:33] So we appreciate it.

[02:19:34] But you want to stick around

[02:19:34] because Ty's going to do some Q&A

[02:19:36] and people might have some questions for you.

[02:19:38] Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[02:19:39] Awesome.

[02:19:40] So yeah, if anybody has any questions,

[02:19:41] um, we have a mic over here

[02:19:45] to the right and the front.

[02:19:47] And, um, anybody want to come up

[02:19:49] and ask any of us,

[02:19:51] even the front row here,

[02:19:53] the esteemed front row,

[02:19:55] come on up.

[02:19:56] Now's your chance

[02:19:56] and we will be doing the raffle,

[02:19:57] uh, ticket giveaway soon.

[02:20:00] All right, we got one question here.

[02:20:02] All right, cool.

[02:20:02] Come on up.

[02:20:05] What's your, what's your name?

[02:20:07] Uh, I'm Rick, um, from Wentworth.

[02:20:10] So.

[02:20:11] Oh, let's pull that over here by tie, please.

[02:20:14] Yeah, get in there nice and tight.

[02:20:15] Thank you.

[02:20:16] Hello, Rick.

[02:20:17] Hi.

[02:20:20] Give Ty a hug.

[02:20:21] Man.

[02:20:22] Oh, uh-oh.

[02:20:24] Jeez.

[02:20:29] Oh, we got, oh, we got one.

[02:20:31] Oh, yeah, it's definitely going in my pack, too, so.

[02:20:34] And just talk right into that mic.

[02:20:35] All right.

[02:20:36] So, yeah, that's definitely going

[02:20:38] on my, uh, volunteer firefighter

[02:20:40] search and rescue pack

[02:20:42] because, um, from Wentworth

[02:20:43] and, um, you know,

[02:20:46] just, uh, just moved up here

[02:20:47] last year.

[02:20:48] And my question for you,

[02:20:50] it's kind of regarding the book.

[02:20:52] So, you're releasing the book

[02:20:54] coming up here.

[02:20:55] Are you doing any signings

[02:20:57] of the book?

[02:20:58] Is it going to be, like,

[02:20:59] kind of going out somewhere?

[02:21:00] Like, because I really need

[02:21:02] an autographed copy

[02:21:03] for my wife, Jennifer,

[02:21:04] who's somewhere in the back there.

[02:21:06] Uh-oh, she's laughing and waving, so.

[02:21:08] All right.

[02:21:09] I'm going to be at Gibson's

[02:21:11] and Concord on December.

[02:21:14] I'll be in conversation

[02:21:15] with Laura Kanoi,

[02:21:16] uh, who used to be

[02:21:17] with the exchange.

[02:21:18] And she's, she's also an author

[02:21:20] and was an early reader

[02:21:21] of the book,

[02:21:22] like Mike and Stopp.

[02:21:23] Uh, and then on the 5th,

[02:21:25] um, I'll be spending

[02:21:26] several hours

[02:21:27] just at Innisfree

[02:21:28] and Meredith,

[02:21:29] um, not doing a talk

[02:21:30] but just signing books

[02:21:31] for folks that come in.

[02:21:32] All right.

[02:21:33] We'll probably see you both days.

[02:21:34] Not going to be creepy or anything.

[02:21:35] No, no, no.

[02:21:37] It's, I mean,

[02:21:37] that's, I don't know

[02:21:38] where you are constantly.

[02:21:39] And, um,

[02:21:40] I know Wentworth's

[02:21:41] a volunteer fire department

[02:21:42] so thank you for volunteering.

[02:21:44] Oh, no, no.

[02:21:45] It's my pleasure.

[02:21:46] Well.

[02:21:46] It's like,

[02:21:46] it's a great group of guys there

[02:21:48] and I'm relatively new.

[02:21:49] Yeah.

[02:21:50] Just moved to the area, so.

[02:21:51] Well, that's what makes

[02:21:52] communities work

[02:21:52] is volunteerism

[02:21:53] so thank you.

[02:21:55] Thank you very much.

[02:21:56] Anybody else?

[02:21:57] Any questions?

[02:21:59] All right.

[02:22:00] Looks like we're good.

[02:22:00] So, uh,

[02:22:01] I think what we'll do

[02:22:01] is get Phillip here.

[02:22:03] Do you want to do the raffles?

[02:22:04] You did such a great job

[02:22:05] at the Rescue Me 5K.

[02:22:07] You might as well.

[02:22:07] I gotta pee.

[02:22:09] You gotta pee?

[02:22:09] I gotta pee.

[02:22:10] All right.

[02:22:11] Let's get, uh,

[02:22:13] moving right on.

[02:22:14] I just want to thank everybody,

[02:22:16] all the guests

[02:22:16] and everybody

[02:22:17] for sticking with us

[02:22:18] and, uh,

[02:22:18] thank you so much.

[02:22:19] It's been

[02:22:20] very, very, uh,

[02:22:21] great evening

[02:22:22] and, um,

[02:22:23] appreciate the time.

[02:22:24] Yeah, for sure.

[02:22:26] You guys are awesome.

[02:22:27] Thanks for supporting

[02:22:28] the podcast.

[02:22:30] Oh,

[02:22:31] she's gonna hate me

[02:22:32] for this

[02:22:33] but Mrs. Stomp

[02:22:33] is in the back.

[02:22:35] Oh, my God!

[02:22:41] Oh,

[02:22:42] she's hot!

[02:22:44] Mrs. Stomp,

[02:22:45] you're hot!

[02:22:46] All right.

[02:22:48] The first time

[02:22:49] I met Mrs. Stomp

[02:22:50] she was, like,

[02:22:50] in the car

[02:22:51] driving us down

[02:22:52] Mount Washington

[02:22:53] and she's like,

[02:22:53] you people are crazy.

[02:22:54] Now she's been hiking,

[02:22:55] like, forever,

[02:22:56] so we converted her.

[02:22:58] She's the best.

[02:22:59] Yeah.

[02:23:00] And, uh,

[02:23:00] we want to thank

[02:23:01] all the guests

[02:23:02] and I think we'll play

[02:23:04] the old outro music.

[02:23:05] Thank you for listening.

[02:23:21] If you enjoyed the show,

[02:23:23] you can subscribe

[02:23:23] on Apple Podcasts,

[02:23:25] Spotify,

[02:23:27] Podbean,

[02:23:28] YouTube,

[02:23:29] or wherever you

[02:23:30] listen to podcasts.

[02:23:32] If you want to learn more

[02:23:33] about the topics

[02:23:34] covered in today's show,

[02:23:35] please check out

[02:23:36] the show notes

[02:23:37] and safety information

[02:23:38] at slasherpodcast.com.

[02:23:41] That's S-L-A-S-R

[02:23:44] podcast dot com.

[02:23:46] You can also follow the show

[02:23:48] on Facebook and Instagram.

[02:23:49] We hope you'll join us

[02:23:51] next week for another

[02:23:52] great show.

[02:23:53] Until then,

[02:23:54] on behalf of Mike and Stomp,

[02:23:56] get out there

[02:23:57] and crush

[02:23:58] some

[02:23:59] mega

[02:23:59] peaks.

[02:24:01] Now covered in scratches,

[02:24:03] blisters,

[02:24:04] and bug bites,

[02:24:05] Chris Staff wanted to complete

[02:24:06] his most challenging

[02:24:07] day hike ever.

[02:24:09] Fish and game officers

[02:24:10] say the hiker from Florida

[02:24:11] activated an emergency

[02:24:13] beacon yesterday morning.

[02:24:15] He was hiking along

[02:24:16] the Appalachian Trail

[02:24:17] when the weather

[02:24:18] started to get worse.

[02:24:20] Officials say the snow

[02:24:21] was piled up to three feet

[02:24:22] in some spots

[02:24:23] and there was a wind chill

[02:24:24] of minus one degree.

[02:24:26] And there's three words

[02:24:28] that describe this race.

[02:24:29] Do we all know who they are?

[02:24:34] Lieutenant James Neeland

[02:24:35] from New Hampshire Fish and Game.

[02:24:36] Louisiana,

[02:24:36] thanks for being with us today.

[02:24:38] Thanks for having me.

[02:24:39] What are some of the most

[02:24:40] common mistakes

[02:24:41] you see people make

[02:24:42] when they're heading out

[02:24:42] on the trails

[02:24:43] to hike here in New Hampshire?

[02:24:44] Seems to me the most common

[02:24:45] is being unprepared.

[02:24:46] I think if they just

[02:24:47] simply visited

[02:24:48] hikesafe.com

[02:24:49] and got a list

[02:24:50] of the 10 essential items

[02:24:51] and had those in their packs,

[02:24:52] they probably would have

[02:24:53] no need to ever call us

[02:24:54] at all.