Episode 186 - Welcome Anthony Lahout, Lahout’s History, SnowSafe Summit Recap,

[00:00:08] Here is the latest Higher Summits forecast brought to you by our friends at the Mount Washington Observatory. Weather above treeline in the White Mountains is often wildly different than at our trailheads. Before you hike, check the Higher Summits forecast at mountwashington.org. Weather observers working at the non-profit Mount Washington Observatory

[00:00:36] Write this elevation-based forecast every morning and afternoon. Search and Rescue teams, avalanche experts, and backcountry guides all rely on the Higher Summits forecast to anticipate weather conditions above treeline. You should too. Go to mountwashington.org or text FORECAST to 603-356-2137.

[00:01:03] And here's your forecast for the weekend of February 22nd, 2025. And there's an alert. Windchill advisory in effect from 8pm EST Thursday until 11am EST Saturday. Let's see what we've got cooking here.

[00:01:33] Alright, so Friday. Mostly in the clouds with a chance of snow showers. Possible snow accumulations of a trace to 2 inches. High in the mid single digits with winds northwest at 50-70 mph with gusts up to 80 mph. Windchill will be 25 below to 35 below. Friday night in and out of the clouds with a slight chance of snow showers. High in the mid single digits with a chance of snow showers.

[00:02:05] Possible snow accumulations of a trace to 1 inch. Low will be around 0 degrees. Winds will be northwest at 50-70 mph with gusts up to 80 mph. Decreasing to 45-60 mph with wind gusts up to 75 mph. And the windchill will be 25 below to 35 mph. Becker's studio in the great state of the state of the state. Oh, excuse me.

[00:02:32] Saturday in the clear under decreasingly cloudy skies. With a high in the upper single digits. Winds will be northwest shifting west at 45-60 mph with gusts up to 75. Decreasing to 40-55 mph with gusts up to 70. And the windchill again will be 15 below to 25 below.

[00:03:35] Becker's studio in the great state of New Hampshire. Welcome to the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast. Where we discuss all things related to hiking and search and rescue in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. Here are your hosts, Mike and Stomp.

[00:03:51] Alright, Stomp. Welcome to 186. 186. 186. That's it. 186. 186. Is there anything special about that number to you?

[00:04:19] Well, the funny thing is I was looking at the script and the top portion of the script said 185. So I had to go down this big rabbit hole to figure out where we were exactly. But it is 186. 186. So I'm going to talk to you offline by the way. I sent you a note about the 200th episode. So we'll get some ideas I'll disclose probably in the coming weeks. Oh. Okay. Sounds good. I'm scheming. All right. Keep me posted. So. I'm a busy guy. I also want to apologize.

[00:04:49] You know, you're busy. You're crazy. I'm so happy for you guys for your snowmobile season. Dude, it's been the best. The best snow ever. Best tours ever. Best tips ever. It's just been amazing out there. But yeah, I need notice. Yeah. The worst customers though. Every Thursday night, they keep getting lost on you. Yeah, that's true. Yep. That's true. Renters are always a wall card. But what can you do? That's a nice way of saying it.

[00:05:17] So I just want to warn you ahead of time that the Canada USA hockey game is going on right now. So my chat groups are going to be pinging like crazy. So we got to hurry up. I want to see the end of the game. Your bro radar going off or what? My bro radar. I have bro. I mean, look. Bro-itis. I spend my life surrounded by, I got all girls and there's me and like four women in this house. So although they're all kind of spread into the wind right now, but typically four women.

[00:05:45] But I have not only am I got my chat group going for the hockey game, but I have a bro weekend coming up. Phew. Damn. I'm going ice fishing. I've never done this before. I'm going ice fishing with all these guys I know from high school and stuff. So we're going to Moose Pond in Bridgeton, Maine. Nice. So what are you going to do? Like set up a tent and sit in there and huddle around a little fire or what are you doing? Absolutely not. I don't know. Those guys are going to go ice fishing.

[00:06:15] I'm going to be, I'm going to go hiking and then I'll say hi to them. You're going, air quotes, ice fishing. Yeah. Like I have zero interest in sitting in a tent looking at a hole in the ground. It's ridiculous. I second that. I second that. Yeah. It is kind of funny like the, the planning or in the chat group and everyone's like bringing

[00:06:42] gourmet food and like someone's bringing chili, someone's bringing venison. Um, I think they're going to spend the whole time cooking. I'm like, we're only going to be there a day and a half guys. Let's calm down. Anybody bringing fish? That's what I said. I said, I thought we're going to eat the fish. Yeah. You might as well. I think this is just a huge scam for all of us to just get away from our wives for a couple hours. Wow. Well, you need a wife like me because she just leaves. She's in Florida right now. Oh, nice.

[00:07:12] Yeah. And I'm just home with the kitties. So yeah. Yeah. You know what she's doing? That's good. She's, she's renting a see-through kayaks so that she can see manatee. Well, that's fun. That's pretty cool. Huh? Yeah. Yeah. No, I've seen, I haven't done the see-through kayaks, but I have done kayaking in the Indian river and seen manatees and dolphins and stuff. It's really, it's really fun. Hmm. Yeah. That's cool. But she'll be back on Monday. That's when this is time. So I'm just chilling. All right.

[00:07:41] Well, enjoy your, enjoy your wild weekend. Yeah. So, but anyway, welcome to episode 185 of the Sounds Like a Surgeon Rescue podcast. This week we are joined by Anthony Lahoot. So Anthony's part of the Lahoot family. They are the caretakers and owners of the oldest ski shop in the U.S. So Lahoot's was founded in 1920 as a small country store in Littleton, New Hampshire. The Lahoot family driven by Anthony's grandfather, Joe Senior has become, you know, he became

[00:08:10] the lifeblood that ushered in the growth of the, well, the store became the lifeblood of ushering in the growth of the ski industry in the Northeast. So retail businesses are always a challenging endeavor, but Lahoot's has endured and thrived across their various locations in Lincoln and Littleton, New Hampshire. So we're, we're pumped and excited to and honored for Anthony to join us to share his story. So we'll, we'll get to him in a little while. And then we're going to do a recap of the snow safe summit that I was at this weekend.

[00:08:39] Um, there was a case of hypothermia on Springer mountains stomping Georgia down south. Um, we've got some through hiker survey results for the best backpacks. If you, if you're interested in getting a backpack and then there was a rescue of some climbers after an avalanche on Cannon Cliff. So all that and more. I'm Mike. And I'm stomp. Are you going to do the part where you say, let's get started? No.

[00:09:08] Are we doing an audio drop for that? Yes. So soon you forget. Oh, by the way, no, I didn't know. Cindy and Paul were jumbling around everything last week. Cindy and Paul did a great job, but that intro was, you forgot the intro, didn't you? You didn't even do an intro. I did the intro. Really? We did an intro. Oh, yeah, we did. Cindy was a little bit delayed in her. I'm Cindy. Oh, I remember that. She did it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I forgot the intro. The show before episode one 84.

[00:09:38] I forgot to do the intro, man. We're just winging it. Let's get started. Anyway, well, let's get to our friend Christina from wild Raven endurance coaching and then we'll come back. Yeah. Oh, Cindy nailed the blue. Cindy nailed that. Yeah.

[00:10:08] She sure did. I'm Christina from wild Raven endurance coaching. I work with athletes of all levels from hikers to triathletes, helping you reach your goals with personalized guidance. With years of experience hiking, mountain biking and trail running across New England. I also have a deep knowledge of the New Hampshire 4,000 footers and the surrounding trails. Whether you're a beginner hiker or a seasoned athlete, I'll guide you towards your goals,

[00:10:35] reducing injury risk and improving your performance through smart tailored coaching. Are you looking to transition from hiking to mountain running? I'm here to make that journey easier too. My approach combines strength training, mindfulness and life balance on and off the trail. Let me help you find more joy in your sport while getting stronger and healthier along the way. Visit www.coaching.christinafulsick.com and start your adventure today.

[00:11:12] So thank you, Christina. If anybody's interested, reach out to her and she will get you in shape and on the right track. Mm-hmm. All right. So Stomp has something on here that says Mike is itching for a live show. Does this have to do with 200? Is that why you put that in there? Yeah, yeah. Do you want to talk about that or did you skirt around it just a moment ago? Well, to be determined, me and you will scheme about it and then we'll make the announcement

[00:11:41] once we have everything locked in. Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah. It's coming up quick. It is coming up quick. So a couple of months. All right. So now we've got a series of New Hampshire things that we want to talk about. The first thing we want to talk about is Stomp pulled some information on Avalanche resources because now is the time of the year for us to be paying attention to Avalanche stuff. Yeah, we'll give you a bunch of links here because it is almost spring so this is going to become perhaps less of a concern.

[00:12:11] But if you're back country adventuring, you need to know the terrain and know what you're looking for for Avalanche. So we're going to give you the links for Avalanche.org, the Mount Washington Avalanche Center, and also locations in and around the region, particularly in New Hampshire for Avalanche education. There's a whole series of pro courses. There's recreational courses, fairly affordable.

[00:12:39] I think the rescue one is pretty cool because it's like 280 for a day and you get the practical end of how to use beacons and the probes and everything else. And it's definitely worth looking into, especially since back country adventuring is becoming more popular and common. Right, right. And I will, I'll post this up on our, maybe I'll share this across our Instagram story, but also put it in the show notes.

[00:13:07] But there is some video from the White Mountain Ski Company that they had put out, somebody was skiing down Tarkerman and it looks really nice. I guess the Avalanche warning today was low. It's so surprising. They said it was pretty icy. Yeah. But the skiing that I'm looking at looks, looks pretty good. Yeah. When I saw that video, I was like, oh, I was just waiting for the Avalanche to happen. But then I went onto the websites and it was saying low. It's interesting how it cycles like that.

[00:13:38] Yeah. Yeah. It looks like it's, I guess it's pretty firm right now. So it's pretty nice. They got, I don't know how they filmed this with maybe a drone or something, or maybe somebody was up above. I'm not sure, but it's an awesome shot. So I'll show, I'll share this in the show notes. Yeah. Maybe somebody was up on line head. Right, right. So, all right. And then next up here for sticking with the New Hampshire theme is I wanted to do a recap

[00:14:04] stomp of the snow safe summit that I went to on Saturday last weekend. So this was a first of its kind collaboration event that was hosted by the hiking buddies and our friend Lynn, Lynn Sweezy, along with, it was at the Barn Door Hostel in Rumney. So this was a two day event that focused on winter safety, outdoor adventures and community engagement. And there was opportunities for people to learn new skills, try out winter camping safely

[00:14:34] and engage with local vendors and hiking leaders. So there was a good group of people here. So the setup was essentially, there was some people that stayed overnight in the, the hostel itself, which is beautiful. The Barn Door Hostel was really nice. Cozy like fireplace, nice, nice restrooms. They had, I don't know if there was a fireplace, but there was a bunch of couches and very comfortable, well heated place.

[00:15:04] And they also had like tents outside. So they had like a skating area and then they had an area where you can go snowshoeing. So it was, it was pretty good. So a lot of people stayed for like the full two or three nights. And, but Saturday was sort of like the main day where all of the vendors and, and folks came to provide like some, some lessons around using outdoor gear and things like that. And then there was also an evening show.

[00:15:32] So I was in the afternoon, I was in the morning and afternoon sessions. And basically the, what they had set up is there was somebody from Lakes Region Search and Rescue that was there. They were providing skills classes for, yeah, it was a, no, not Kim. It was somebody else. I forget his name. I saw Kim. Nice guy. I saw some of the pictures anyway. Kim was there. Yeah. She was there later with Little Foots. So that's Little Foots grandma. Yeah. Uh, but Lakes Region was there. He was doing a session around water crossing safety, which was pretty interesting. I caught a little bit of that.

[00:16:02] Then Deborah from Redline Guiding was there. She was doing a skills section on a winter traction. So snowshoes, crampons, micro spikes, et cetera. And then, um, our friends from the Mount Washington weather observatory were there. Uh, there was a table for the hiking buddies, um, Eastern mountain sports. Our friend Darrell was there talking about clothing and layering. And then there was another guide company. I apologize. I'll try to get the name for the show notes that was there.

[00:16:31] He had some ice acts, um, and climbing stuff that he was doing. And then I was there hosting a skills segment about winter, um, hiking in, in particular, how to pack your backpack and what gear to bring with you. So, uh, I thought it was pretty well received and, uh, had, had like probably six or eight people per session. I think I did four sessions. So it was really fun. Four sessions putting in the overtime. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:59] It was like, it's basically, I got there like nine 30 and they had a tent. So there was a little bit of heat in the tent. It was really cold outside, but there was a, the tent was heated a little bit. So it was essentially like you get in the tent and it's like 30 degrees where outside it would have been like 15 degrees. That was a tough weekend for weather. Cold stomp. Yeah. It was Sunday morning was basically blizzard conditions at Bretton Woods. Holy moly. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:25] I got out on Monday and it was, I'll talk about that later, but yeah, that was, it was crazy. Uh, but it was good. I had some interesting comments. I had, so I was talking to, um, Deborah from red line and it was interesting to get her perspective. So she's, she's a guide. She's, she's out there all the time, especially she takes a lot of clients up like lions head. And we were talking a little bit about, um, sort of my gear and the ideas around what to pack. And her perspective was a little bit, I always say like, Oh, bring enough gear with you so

[00:17:55] that you can wait out, you know, eight to 16 hours for the rescue team to get there. Her perspective is more like, you know, I want to ideally be able to wait out comfortably the night so I can sleep comfortably and warm and then get up and rescue myself the next day. So not always realistic if you're injured, but like her perspective was a little bit different than mine where I'm thinking in terms of like, I'm going to call for a rescue and wait it out versus, um, thinking in terms of like, I'm going to sleep tonight.

[00:18:23] I'm going to hopefully stay warm. And then when I get up, I'll, I'll be rested and able to get out, get out myself. Right, right, right. She was also reminding me around, like, she feels it's pretty critical to make sure that you keep your, um, like sleeping bag and extra clothes in a, in a liner so that, uh, you're not getting them wet. Cause if anything, if the stuff gets wet, you're in real big trouble, which I don't typically do that.

[00:18:48] I typically rely on the Dyneema backpack that I have to, to keep that stuff dry. Mm-hmm. So I, that was something I kind of thought about and I was like, that's an interesting perspective. Yeah. That is different. So yeah, those, those events are cool for that. You know, just get all these different angles and tips. It was fun. You know, people like had questions about basic stuff. Like, you know, how do you put your gators on? And I was sort of like explaining to everyone, like my, my approaches, I sort of think about

[00:19:15] like, all right, I know I'm going to put like a, a soft shell jacket on at the trailhead. So I'll make sure that I got my gloves and my hat in the pockets of that. And it's outside of my backpack. So I'm not fiddling around. So I like to just get out and get, get my gear on and get going pretty quickly. So I have a lot of stuff on the outside of my pack that I'm going to use, um, at the trailhead and, and, and get rolling. So it was, we talked a lot about that. There was a bunch of people there that, um, gave their perspective.

[00:19:43] There were some people that use smaller backpacks and larger backpacks. A lot of people wanted to know about like, how do you mount your, um, snowshoes to the backpack? So I brought like three different backpacks to show people different techniques on how to do that. So people were very, had a lot of questions about that. Yeah. Right. That is always a tricky one. Yeah. Yeah. It was good. Um, and then there was some, yeah, exactly. The bungee cord technique or whatever. Um, but then there was a night session that had some speakers.

[00:20:12] So Nick Higgins, who he, he works at the Burgeon outdoor, nice guy. I've talked to him a couple of times, good friends with Chris Roma, who had passed away on, uh, bond the bonds, um, last year, unfortunately. So Nick was, uh, friends with Chris and, uh, you know, I've talked a little bit about that. He's actually, he's been on our friend Nick's PUDS podcast. So he talks a little bit more detail about that, but he was there organizing with Lynn and, uh, he was one of the speakers in the evening.

[00:20:40] And then there was a speaker, Lila Harad, who I think is also involved with Burgeon and then Mike from the Mount Washington weather observatory was there. And then Ty Gagne finished up the evening. I had to leave at like four o'clock so I didn't get to catch up with everybody, but, um, good, good, good, um, program and, and a lot of talk about, um, safety and you know, the, the grounds were beautiful. The barn door hostel. I can't recommend enough.

[00:21:06] They had great pizza cozy set up inside and, um, you know, shout out to Lynn for doing such a great job. Shout out to Daryl, the crew from the Mount Washington observatory, Deborah from red line. Um, my friends, Bob was there. Um, our woodworking buddy, uh, Al from the show who helps out a lot with, with news articles was there. Rhonda, um, Peter, Jake, everybody was a lot of good friends there. Al made it. Al, the famous Al was there. Yeah.

[00:21:35] I was talking to him all day. We got to make a shirt with his image on it. Yep. Al sent in. Yep. We'll have to do the Al sent it, sent it in. So, uh, well, that's great. Are they going to do it again? Yeah. Huge success. Yeah. No, I think they're going to do it again. And like, I'm just, I feel like there's like this core group of people that we keep seeing over and over again that are, uh, you know, anytime you need an event handled,

[00:22:03] like you've got, you've got a good core group of people that are willing to step in and help out. Um, not that there isn't already a good existing group, but it's just, it's expanding a lot over the last four years. And I think it's, it's great to see. Hmm. Leaps and bounds. Leaps and bounds. Yeah. So the snow safe summit, um, I think, yeah, we'll be doing it. I think next year, stomp, we do a live show from there. Huh? I'll do my best.

[00:22:29] You'll have to set up all the gear, do the sound check, and then I'll roll in from my snowmobile guiding. How's that sound? Hmm. What a diva. What a diva. I can manage. I can manage. So, um, all right, stomp. So now we've got some, so that was what's going on in New Hampshire. Now we've got some national stuff that I wanted to get into here. So there was a, uh, our friend Al sent this in. There was a hypothermia or search and rescue event on Springer mountain in Georgia. So it's always interesting.

[00:22:57] I think people think that Georgia is like this nice warm area where you don't have to worry about cold weather, but it did get down into like the, the low teens, um, earlier in the week. And I guess that this, there's two articles on this. One is from Facebook where it talks about the rescue. And then there's another YouTube video from some shuttle drivers and ridge runners that work in and around, um, springer mountain.

[00:23:22] So I guess that this gentleman, he was hiker number six, nine on the Appalachian trail. So he started, I think pretty early and he had, I guess, hadn't made it far. He was only on Springer mountain. And I guess he was like sort of set up in the middle of the trail, um, for a couple days. So I don't think he was moving along that well, but he eventually, I guess, had experienced

[00:23:49] hypothermia and was, um, forced to call for a rescue. So, um, it's an interesting story. I think the, the ridge runners that did the video on YouTube were talking about how like, you know, they did check in on this guy at one point and he was like right by a shelter. Everyone was like, I think he's okay. He did respond. He said, I'm okay. But then later on, it comes to find out that they had to call for rescue because he couldn't move. So it's a cold one.

[00:24:16] I mean, the, uh, I deleted it off the script, but the, uh, the wind chill map is unbelievable. It's, it's supposed to be a little better soon, but, uh, it's been really cold, really far south, some strange weather going on. Super icy around here too. It's like, cause we had a lot of snow and then warmed up, had some rain and then it froze over and it hasn't warmed up since.

[00:24:41] So scary, but yeah, I'll, I'll link these in the show notes, but, um, yeah, the, the through hikers are out and a lot of people are getting on trail now. Uh, it's pretty early if you don't know what you're doing around keeping warm, then it's, it's a, it's not a, uh, not an easy endeavor to be down there. Um, hiking, even though you think you're down south and it's going to be warm. It's just not the case. Right. Cause you're up, you're up a couple thousand feet. Yeah. No kidding. Right. All right. All right.

[00:25:11] So, um, another one, I got this sent to me by a couple of people. Um, but there was a, uh, rescue that happened in a Utah Canyon. So this is basically a story of two rescues that happened a month apart. So a father and son survived a night stranded in a Utah Canyon. Thanks to the discovery of an abandoned backpack containing emergency supplies. So, uh, this, yeah.

[00:25:40] So this guy, Julian Hernandez and his 12 year old son were hiking in snow Canyon State Park in Southern Utah on Sunday. They, they planned to be out for a couple of hours, but when they didn't return, they were reported overdue in search and rescue team members were deployed at around 7 PM to begin a difficult search in this terrain. In the same area a month earlier, Cruz had searched for another missing hiker, a 15 year old by the name of Levi Dittman.

[00:26:07] In that case, Dittman had bailed out on his backpack in order to navigate out of the Canyon. And that act of him dumping his backpack turned out to be the lifeline a month later for this Hernandez, um, guy and his son. So the pair faced overnight temperatures close to freezing and they had tried to find their way out. They stumbled across his pack and they discovered emergency blankets, food and water inside. They were able to use those supplies to stay warm until the rescue crew spotted them from

[00:26:36] the air using night vision goggles. And they hoisted them to safety about, uh, probably about 24 hours after the hike began. So without that backpack, the father thinks that the duo might not have made it out alive. He said, I don't think I'd be talking to you guys if it wasn't for us finding that backpack. That's Providence right there, man. That's, that's wild. Can you imagine? What are the odds? Crazy. Okay. I'm kidding. Very, um, actually not zero stomp because Al had sent me over another story about this

[00:27:05] exact same scenario happening in like the mid two thousands. Huh? So I'll read this one. This is taken from, yeah, this is taken from the Pacific crest trail Reddit site and I'll include this in the show notes, but, uh, the death of John Donovan and how he inadvertently saved two lost hikers. So John Joseph Donovan was 59 years old. He was hiking near Southern California's Mount San Jacinto on May 6, 2005.

[00:27:35] Mm-hmm. That day a blizzard had dropped eight inches of snow on the mountain and he ended up getting trapped. John was a veteran hiker who was a notoriously bad navigator and reckless about it. So he had strayed from the Pacific crest trail, which he was through hiking. He had no compass, no useful maps. Um, and he only carried a tarp instead of a tent and socks in place of gloves. And he only had a few provisions.

[00:28:03] So he was always traveling ultra light. So, um, ultimately like he was risking if things went wrong, he was going to be in trouble. Mm-hmm. He was an active member of the old dominion and tidewater Appalachian trail clubs and had just retired from 20 years as a licensed clinical social worker from central state hospital. And he had served 15 years in the U S Navy.

[00:28:26] So in the afternoon of May 3, um, 2005, he climbed into little Tuck Weeks Valley, just south of Saddle Junction and found that the trail was concealed by snow. So he ran into two other hikers, a nurse named Connie Davis and her 20 year old son, Alex. They both had extensive altitude experience. And, uh, he had been following the Davises through this snow field.

[00:28:53] Uh, and Connie, the older lady had said, we're not going to take that most direct route. Um, Donovan had stayed about 30 feet behind them and put on crampons. He was having trouble with the crampons working well, um, because he was wearing lightweight trail runners and he slipped and fell repeatedly. Connie and Alex followed a small Creek uphill and turned Northwest about a half a mile south of Saddle Junction. That's where they last saw John.

[00:29:21] And, um, that was about 8,000 feet on the afternoon of May 3rd. So they basically diverted. He went the more direct route. They went, um, a higher route that she felt was safer, but that was the last time Donovan was seen. 12 days passed before anyone realized he was missing. Many hikers believe that Donovan had headed into Fuller Ridge and froze to death in the blizzard on San Jacinto's west side.

[00:29:45] Um, and they had done an extensive search for him, but two days later they had no crews, no clues. The authorities called off the search for good. Um, what ended up happening is that after leaving the Davises on May 3rd, he detoured down into Islewild, uh, but he had no way to navigate. So he became disoriented. He did write in a journal on the margins of a photocopied guidebook that he couldn't find the trail.

[00:30:11] Instead, he cut away and he, he followed the lights of Palm Springs, traveled about three miles northeast from Saddle Junction that night and crossed into Willow Creek and climbed a small ridge. Um, but that plunged down into a steep, um, gash called Hidden Valley. Um, he kept writing in his journal, um, for a little bit of time. He talked about how he, uh, badly he was, um, you know, he, he was trying to get out.

[00:30:39] He tried to signal for help and built a few weak fires, but he couldn't get anything going. Um, and eventually he ended up falling at a, at a waterfall. Um, his last entry was on May 14th. So he was out there for nine days and, um, he said he was going down to this waterfall for water. He wrote goodbye and I love you all. And then eventually, um, his remains were discovered by this waterfall in May of 2006. Mm-hmm.

[00:31:06] So, um, the way that he was discovered is that there were two other hikers a year later to the day that he had, um, passed away. They had found themselves, um, on a three night, a three night hike in the wilderness. So these hikers were Brandon Day and Gina Allen, 28 and 26. They had gotten themselves lost in the same area that, uh, Donovan had gotten lost in. They were in big trouble.

[00:31:34] Lo and behold, they came across a backpack with supplies at, at the desert, at a deserted camp. Those supplies, um, were, um, were what enabled them to, I guess, find what Donovan had left. So he left a warm sweater, a foam sleeping pad, a poncho backpack, disposable razor, dry socks, and matches that they were able to use to light a signal fire.

[00:32:04] So the gear was all wet. Um, the radio and the flashlight were corroded and they kind of realized that this, this might be somebody else's. So they did find the identification of Donovan in the pack. And eventually they were able to light a signal fire, um, which turned into like a, a, a forest fire that was about an acre or two. And it created a huge smoke signal. So at that point they were able to get a helicopter and to rescue them. So Donovan's backpack essentially allowed this couple to, uh, to get out.

[00:32:37] I'm going to start carrying extra backpacks and just dropping them here and there. Just drop them everywhere. Dude, I'll stick them in my 115 and just drop them everywhere. Leave, leave no trace except backpacks. Exactly. So I, I, you know, my, my friends, Beth Lynn and Mindy, they, they found that guy's backpack that time. So yeah, you never know. Yeah. It's wild. Anyway, but, uh, yeah, so that's it.

[00:33:02] So those two stories of, um, people that dying, leaving their backpacks and then the, oh, not dying, but leaving their backpacks and then the people stumbling upon them and saving themselves. It's good. It's, it's all good. Right. So, and speaking of backpack stuff, what do you think the most popular backpack on the Appalachian trail was last year? Um, hmm. I would have to say Osprey. Osprey. You are correct, Stomp. You are correct.

[00:33:30] So the Trek has put out their, um, annual through hiker survey, uh, where they talk about the, um, all kinds of stuff about backpacks. So 78% of the, um, hikers have an internal frame backpack, 17% have a frameless pack, and then 5% have an external frame. They'll go in old school. So. Wow. That's funny. I've got a bunch of those externals. They're, they're wild. Just sitting in the closet.

[00:34:01] Yeah. Yeah. Those are, those are cool packs. That's what you should hike. You should do the, um, Pemi loop in your external frame backpack. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be pretty unique. Yeah, exactly. Um, one out of every four through hiker says that they had to replace their backpack while on the trail.

[00:34:22] And, um, of the 25% that replaced their backpack, 7%, you went with the same model as their first bag, 18% switched to a different model. So about one in five decided that like that backpack wasn't working for them and they got a whole new brand. What percentage switched brands? That's what I, I just said that 20% or 18%. Well, it sounded as though they switched models.

[00:34:52] I think that, oh yeah, yeah. I don't know. Actually, that's a good point. Yeah. Maybe it could be, they bought a different type of Osprey, I guess. Yeah. I'm curious. I don't know what the thing is with Osprey. I mean, it just sounds like a, like a fad. It just... No, they're light. They're good packs. A lot of people like them. Yeah. Um, they're pretty light. They're, they're an internal frame pack that's gives you pretty close to the benefits of ultra light. Hmm. Hmm. Interesting.

[00:35:17] So, so a lot of people don't like those, the ultra light ones cause they're frameless and they just stick to your back. Oh yeah. So. Well, maybe they need a Vaucluse frame. They need a Vaucluse, right? Right? Exactly. Um, as far as capacity goes, Stomp, only two, you're going to be disappointed in this. Only 2% of the through hikers had a 75 liter or larger backpack. I'm in the 2%. That's hilarious.

[00:35:45] Um, and then 50% of successful through hikers use a 55 to 64 liter backpack. And then, um, you've got 3% that use a 25 to 34 liter backpack. 11% use 35 to 44 liters. But the most, I mean, basically like 70% of the hikers are going between 45 and 65 liters. Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely the trend there.

[00:36:13] Um, the majority of the hikers, we would say 34% of them have a base weight between 15 and 20 pounds. 20% have a base weight between 10 to 15. And then 22% have a base weight between 20 to 25 pounds. So that's all of their gear minus worn items and consumables such as water and food. So. So they're relying on caches then for sure.

[00:36:41] Well, I mean, that's just the weight of the backpack without their water or food. So if you say you I'm doing a 20 pound base weight, then you could probably assume that you're actually carrying probably like 26 pounds. Hmm. Was, uh, Cheswick was, um, going to head out unsupported, correct? Correct. Yeah. Oh my God. I don't know why he's heading out, but we got to follow up with him once he gets rolling. Yep. Exactly.

[00:37:08] Um, change in base weight of AT through hikers between start and end of the hike. So, um, this is base weight. So about 50% said they lost, um, anywhere between zero to five pounds. And then 20% said they basically stayed at the same weight. There was about 10% that said they gained a little bit of weight in their base weight. And then 5% said they lost between 10 to 15 pounds or 15 to 20 pounds.

[00:37:37] So most people seem pretty dialed in. Hmm. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And then top brands, um, 85 of the respondents had an Osprey and the models were the Exos Agar and the Atmos Aura were the two big ones. Um, the second most popular, well, it's a tie for the second most popular. So ULA, the circuit, um, was the, was popular.

[00:38:06] And then hyper light mountain gear, which is my brand that I like the Southwest. Um, and the wind rider were the two most popular. And then there's another one. Unbound is another brand. Hmm. And in fourth place is gossamer gear backpacks. The Mariposa, um, is their most popular brand. And then Durston gear is popular. The Kawa 55 40, um, is Durston brand.

[00:38:34] Then Z-Pax, the Arcol Z-Pax. And then the REI brand, the REI Flash is next. And then Granite gear, the crown, and then Gregory. And then Light AF is the last one. Light AF. I don't know what that is. Light, I've seen that before. Well, it's, it's the cultural as. It's not though. I thought that before, but somebody said something.

[00:39:04] I need to look at that. Like somebody send me a, send me a message. Tell me what that stands for. It's a play on words. It's gotta be. Maybe we'll see. But anyway, I thought that's interesting. So Osprey, um, hyper light and ULA are popular. And Durston gear is a new one. I haven't seen that before. Z-Pax seems to be getting less popular, but, uh, REI Flash is also the, they seem to have a pretty good niche brand there. So, huh.

[00:39:34] All right, Stomp. Um, this is the part of the show where I do a dad joke. So, um, Julian Jakester got me a mug that has the dad joke of a day. I don't have it in front of me right now. I'm going to, I'm going to debut that next week. Uh, but I am using my book that my friends Lance and Camilla gave me. So Stomp, why did the student throws watch? Out of the school window. Why did the student throw his watch out of the school window? I have no idea. Cause he wanted to see time fly. Oh God, that's so obvious.

[00:40:04] Got it. Um, what sort of tea do hockey players not want to give the opposing team? Tea. What kind of tea do hockey players not want to give the opposing team? Ice tea. A penalty. A penalty. Yes. Do I get a runner up for that? Ice tea? You do. You do. So, all right, Stomp. Now is the part of the show where we're going to do a sponsor here. So 48 Peaks.

[00:40:34] Yeah. 48 Peaks is back. Let me pull that up for a second. 48 Peaks. Dun, dun, dun. The suspense is killing you. I can tell. Yes. 48 Peaks, Alzheimer's. Use your passion for hiking to help end Alzheimer's.

[00:40:56] Join 400 plus hikers as they climb New Hampshire's 4,000 footers or create their own challenge to support the mission of the Alzheimer's Association. The annual hiker celebration will take place Saturday, June 21st. I think that's the week after the Mount Washington Road Race, right? I believe so, yes. It's going to be at Tuckerman Brewing with raffles, food, and an amazing community. Hike that weekend or any day you want this summer.

[00:41:25] No fundraising minimums required, but those who raise $100 will receive the 2025 performance-grade purple t-shirt. Let's turn the White Mountains purple to end Alzheimer's. Visit alts.org right slash 48peaks to learn more. Right, right. And sit tight.

[00:41:47] If you're interested in joining the Slasher 48 Peaks team, send a message over to the Instagram account and I'll get on that shortly. After I get done with my guys weekend, I'm going to sign up and set up a team. And I know Nobby Hikes is going to be joining me and I'll be getting a good crew together. So sit tight. But if you are interested, hit us up over the Instagram and I will put your name down and make sure you're on the team and we'll figure out a time to get out and go hiking.

[00:42:16] Do you have a peak selected yet? Not yet. No, I'm going to talk to Nobby and figure out what he wants to do. Oh, cool. Okay. Hey, we're still selling those cool hoodies, Slasher hoodies. You can get those at the Bonfire Shop, which is linked on our Instagram link tree. So the colors are killer. We've sold a couple over the last few days actually. And check them out. Very good.

[00:42:45] Yeah, I got all the nieces and nephews and my kids. That was the Christmas present for the Mike family. Mrs. Stomp wears hers all the time. She loves it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're very comfortable. All right, Stomp, this is a part of the show where we talk about recent hikes. So Stomp is a retired hiker. So he doesn't need an ad right now, but I am a professional hiker. That's right. And I did get out on Monday.

[00:43:12] Monday, I wanted to get out because I was busy on Friday and Saturday, so I didn't get to hike. But Monday was a bad weather day. It was like extremely windy. I think that it broke a record on Mount Washington, maybe like 160 mile an hour winds on Mount Washington. So my original plan was I was going to go up to Liberty Springs and break out that trail and get up and poke my head up above on Liberty.

[00:43:38] But unfortunately, when I got to the trailhead, the trailhead was not plowed. It was it was like plowed and like they had a strip stomp. And then I would have to back my car up into like kind of pretty deep snow section. And I figured like the guys that are going to come in and actually plow it out probably wouldn't have been happy with me. Yep. So I was like, I'm not going to do that. So I am. Yeah. Yeah. So I was just basically like, I'm just going to go up to Lafayette. Yeah.

[00:44:08] And I just did. I was like, I'll just go break out old bridal and see how far I get. I was thinking like I could poke my head up above the agonies or maybe I can get to the hut and try that out. But it was like a total bust. Like the snow was too deep. The wind was whipping when I got into the trees to the point where I was like, I seriously am concerned that a blowdown is going to come down on my head here. So yeah, I made it like I went in a little over a mile.

[00:44:35] I got to the point where I started climbing up along Walker Brook and I didn't get to the switchback. I turned around before I got to that just because it was like this gust of wind that came and hit that just sketched me out. So I was like, you know what? I don't want a tree falling on my head. I'm going to get the hell out of here. Did you hear the Mount Fuji voice in the air saying turn back? No, no. But I heard like it was weird.

[00:45:03] It was like these cycles of wind where you'd have like complete calm for a minute and then all of a sudden it would just build and build and build and then it'd be like a freight train coming through the notch. Yeah. And then it would calm down again. So it was like this cycle and I was just like, I'm not feeling it today. Yeah. We took tours out that day and it was so gnarly. Against my better instincts, they actually sent us out and I was waiting for the blow downs too. There was one blow down.

[00:45:32] It was probably like a, an eight inch diameter tree that fell across Mount Clinton road that I was taking the last tour of the day. And we had to ride gently over that stupid thing. But after that, I'm like, all right, we're out of here. This is ridiculous. Yeah. So I was like, I, it was nice to get out and you know, it was good. I was breaking trail and that's always fun. Good workout. Um, and it was, but it was just like, I wasn't feeling it.

[00:46:01] I was just like, this is too, I'm solo. Like the wind's whipping. I'm hearing trees knocking around. So I, I just called it a day. It was fun. It was fun to get out, but yeah, hopefully I'll get on top of a mountain next week. I'll be out soon too. Puxatawney Stomp will be out in the spring. I'll be back. Okay. Yeah. Well, the mountain, the mountains are looking forward to it. Oh yeah, I bet. All right. So CS coffee.

[00:46:29] So when you wake up from the winter stomp and you can have your, your coffee, you'll get back to hiking. That's right. Yeah. CS coffee athlete ready for athletes like me. www.csinstant.coffee. They're our tried and true coffee advertiser and they taste fantastic. Excellent stomp. So, um, all right.

[00:46:57] So now we are going to get into a segment here. So Anthony Lajout is nice enough to join us. Um, so Anthony is one of the partners that runs Lajout's, which is, um, a well-known retail institution across Littleton and Lincoln. So let's go into that segment. We'll learn a bunch about Anthony and then we'll come out on the other side. All right, let's do it. Hello.

[00:47:45] Anthony, you made it to the big time. Are you excited? Very excited. This is like the pinnacle, the pinnacle of your career. Yes. The biggest podcast in the world. Right, right. Exactly. So, you know, the top of New Hampshire. So, um, stomp, why don't you kick it off? Because, um, you, you were the one that were, you were able to get Anthony, um, over here. So why don't you start and give a little bit of background and then Anthony, you can introduce yourself and talk a little bit about your, yourself.

[00:48:16] Yeah, this was, this was an easy lift because, um, a listener, Dan van der Vliet. Is that his last name? Van der Vliet? Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a classy one. Yeah, no, I like that. I find myself having to speak like, uh, German and Dutch and everything in this podcast, which is sort of funny. But, uh, yeah, Dan sent, uh, your info and connected us, which is super cool. And, um, you've been on the radar for quite a while, actually. I mean, you could do the hoots is a legend. I have a funny story.

[00:48:44] Um, when I'm not a, uh, podcaster, I, I dress up as a professional painter. I worked for Moosehead painting for a couple of seasons and painted your, your Lincoln shop with the gondola. There you go. Awesome. So yeah, good friends with Colby and Bryce and Dylan and all those guys. So, uh, and I'm proud of that, man, that, that shop looks killer. Yeah. So that's it. That's what we got. And, uh, we're glad to have you. See, I thought like, I had no idea about this.

[00:49:12] I was like, I just thought Stomp and Anthony were like best friends. Cause I just assumed Stomp knows everybody up there in New Hampshire now. So, um, but we appreciate Dan stepping in and I'm glad that I don't have to be impressed by Stomp anymore. I thought I was going to have to like give him kudos about his networking abilities. Anyway, but, uh, but thanks for joining us, Anthony. So why don't you start off? So, um, you know, we, we did a little bit of an intro at the beginning of the show, um,

[00:49:39] for the listeners, but so you're here, you basically, um, are one of the, you know, your family basically runs Lahoots and you've got a bunch of different locations and there's all history there, but why don't you just kick it off by introducing yourself and talk a little bit about your kind of early life and, um, and growing up in New Hampshire and maybe your experience with outdoor activities when you were younger. Yeah. Thank you again for having me. And it's great to meet you guys and, um, learned a lot about the podcast just from the last couple of episodes I've listened to.

[00:50:08] Um, so I'm a native to Northern New Hampshire. I grew up in Littleton and that's where most of my family is from. Um, you know, my whole life, it was a one stoplight town. It's not like the North Conway 2.0 that it has now become, um, recently. And I kind of had a very, um, normal existence with my family being in the outdoor ski sporting goods business. Um, you know, working in the shop, um, through high school, college, you know, just as kind

[00:50:37] of like a part-time person as anyone kind of does, um, that grows up so close around it. It's, it's kind of a very intimate connection, um, in a polite way to put it because my dad and uncles are, were the partners of the business. When I grew up, the two, you know, call them joint CEOs. If you want to make it that formal, but they are also next door neighbors.

[00:51:02] So you kind of grow up in this thing is like essentially what you talk about at every, uh, family meal, every time you see your uncle is something involving the store. Um, and that's my uncle, Ron Lahoot. Um, my dad's name is, is Joe Lahoot Jr. And the, you know, the thing about growing up in a family business is, you know, okay, you get free time when it's closed, but we've only been closed three days a year, uh, for 105 years.

[00:51:31] So we're only closed Christmas, Thanksgiving and Easter. So every Christmas, Thanksgiving and Easter, who is basically my dad, my grandfather, um, whose name is also Joe, um, and my uncle Ron talking about the store on the three days off we had away from the store. So it was, you know, kind of a, a very tight upbringing when it comes to that stuff. And I went to college in greater Boston, um, and then kind of ventured out West. I studied business in college.

[00:52:00] So it was kind of in my blood to be involved, just to kind of came second nature to just be around people and selling stuff and learning stuff about products. Um, and then I did kind of a little bit of a Western tour through, um, Idaho, Colorado, and California in no particular order in got a bunch of exposure on the brand side of the business. So I worked for Smith, uh, the helmet goggle company as kind of like a intern coffee pour,

[00:52:29] uh, picking up, you know, athletes at the airport, like Chris Davenport and, and, and Steve and people like that. And then, um, that kind of led into getting a more full-time athlete manager position at Spider, uh, the ski apparel brand, um, in Boulder, Colorado. And that was much more of a, you know, serious role, um, in terms of, we were doing a lot with the athlete team, um, that a lot of brands had.

[00:52:57] I think those athlete teams because of Instagram and stuff are maybe a little bit less than they were now. Yeah. I feel like Spider blew up too. Like, so my kids are like, they're in college age right now, but like I got them skiing when they were, I don't know, like six, seven, eight years old. And I feel like Spider came, like it went from like, I'd never heard of it to that's all you saw on the, on the slopes when, when they were that age. Yeah. And there, uh, or were the official supplier to the U S ski team for a really long time. So any race suit, any, whatever.

[00:53:26] So those are the athletes that I, I worked with and it was basically shooting someone like Steve Nyman or Julie Mancuso, um, you know, a product line that we were introducing in print and digital and working with the photographer, the videographer, the advertiser and that whole marketing thing in print. You know, this is, you know, 12, 13 years ago was still a thing. It was a dying thing, but it wasn't just all digital spreads. So I did that, um, for a couple of years and then like all outdoor brands, especially

[00:53:56] now when Spider started making a little bit of a transition away from high performance and ski apparel, um, they kind of gave everyone like their papers. Like you guys can either peacefully walk away from this and get a recommendation or you can like go down this new avenue from us. And at that point, um, there were some other things that were kind of tugging at me. And I was like, I think that this is probably the perfect time. Like I love the job.

[00:54:23] I think if the company maybe wouldn't have transitioned, I would have stayed there. I interviewed at a lot of places like K2 and other spots that had similar jobs open. Um, but I ended up kind of in a weird coincidence, moving back to New Hampshire to make a short film about my grandfather, not to be confused with the feature short, which is called North Country.

[00:54:48] We made a two minute film called Joe LaHoot, um, a couple of years before North Country was made. And that's why I initially, um, came back to the East coast. So when you were, so when you were going back to when you were growing up, did they give you, I mean, it's a family business, obviously like everyone's involved and you got your uncle and father that are focused probably all the time on it, but did they give you enough free time for you to get out there and ski and hike and do all the outdoor sports?

[00:55:17] Cause I'd imagine they want you to do that because you need to know the products, but did you really, were you a major ski bum growing up? Yeah. I think that that was, you know, for my folks and stuff, it was definitely not this big, you know, thing of having to be in the store. It was almost like something to do in your free time. So we grew up obviously skiing and hiking and biking and all that stuff. Skiing was definitely like, you know, my first love and something that when I moved out West and I took, um, in between,

[00:55:45] I took some time off between moving into that, that Smith internship role that I was joking with you guys about. I was just kind of figuring out, I had left a corporate marketing job that was really well paying that I, I talked a little bit about in the, in the film North Country. And I said, I wasn't happy. It wasn't going good. And I was like, you know, you're like 24 years old living in Santa Monica, California, and you think your life sucks. Like how can your life suck in Santa

[00:56:08] Monica? Um, so I kind of just ski bummed all over the West and I lived in my car. I lived in a lot of parking garages and mostly little cottonwood Canyon. So, you know, if the year was 2011 or around that time, I could probably tell you like the best parking garage with, you know, a partial roof next to snowboard or Alta, um, and who to talk to at the Peruvian to get a hot shower. Um, so I think

[00:56:35] that was part of it. And when the kerosene was really thrown on the passion and love that I have for the sport of skiing and outdoor stuff. And that's also this right around the same time, um, maybe a couple of years before of me getting very into mountain biking and cycling and all that stuff, which as you guys know, it goes very hand in hand, um, with the skiing communities, the mountain biking community. Right. And then, so eventually you're,

[00:57:02] you're pulled back to New Hampshire. Did you, what point did you say like, all right, I'm, I'm, I'm in with the family business. Um, well, I, the biggest thing for me was I worked at spider with, uh, or I, I, I worked a little bit with him and he had pitched just on a couple of projects and it was a very small company at the time called step studios and a kid that I grew up with named Nick Martini, who's from Massachusetts. Um, and his brother, Alex Martini. And this was

[00:57:29] like a very budding, like they were filmmakers in college. Nick was a professional skier and I knew them from a, a camp, a soccer tennis camp that I went to called Tamarack. Um, I knew them through that. So we made the short film about Joe and then, uh, or I thought about making the short film about Joe and Nick was the first guy because he had the ties to the area and he had this very small production company at the time. So that brought me there because I was a producer. And then when we

[00:57:57] made North country, I was the executive producer and the producer, the guy who's like kind of doing all the sweat until the lights turn on. And when that happened, I started just spending more and more time at home. And the, the two big takeaways besides seeing how talented Nick was and his brother, Alex were, who have made this, you know, they're making Superbowl commercials now, um, was really like how

[00:58:21] captivated I was with, um, telling my grandfather's story. And because he was just such a character and, and with very sharp edges that I couldn't tell my grandkids, um, through a picture. I just don't think it would do justice. And then I was also very captivated with the area that I was spending time in. And I think that those years away, um, just gave you that perspective. And I think, cause you're never

[00:58:47] wondering, like if you, if you stick around in one area, you're always wondering like, oh, geez, I never got a chance to like check it out. But it sounds like you, you scratched all those itches. And then by the time you got done, you were kind of like, all right, well, uh, home is, home is pretty good. I mean, like I was reminiscing with a guy I worked with at Spyder the other day. And I said, my timing was what kind of worked out with me coming home or my lack thereof, because I was

[00:59:17] kind of at Smith, like when I was leaving was right when they moved to Portland, Oregon. So like the soul of that company was based in Ketchum, Idaho in some Valley. And they had to move when a lot of people started moving out of these mountain towns, cause the cost of doing business was so much harder. And then Spyder, it was the same thing. So I think I like had gotten a taste of it. I'd seen these very cool areas. I had worked with some very talented photographers, videographers, but it didn't

[00:59:45] have the staying power. And then I started coming home to work on this short film about my family that we had just made to share with our family. It was not supposed to be in film festivals. It was not, that was not the intention. And then as soon as we started making it, I started showing friends from the outdoor industry that worked at other brands. And they were like, where did you buy these pictures? And I was like, this is just in like my grandfather's kitchen, man. This is not anything different.

[01:00:12] So I think once you start getting perspective from people like that, that you really respect creatively, as well as just in a work environment, you're like, I need to pursue this. And because I made every boneheaded mistake that at that point, a 26 year old can make taking over a night at that point, a 90 year old business or a 95 year old business. It's like, you have to have some very patient people.

[01:00:42] Like my uncle Ron and my dad, who was probably in the beginning, like, I want to make sure this thing doesn't go off the rails immediately. Right. Because at our store, and I didn't really give you the background, you know, we now have, you know, essentially eight storefronts or seven brick and mortar locations in Littleton, New Hampshire and Lincoln, New Hampshire. And a lot of our managers, you know, have

[01:01:08] been with us for a minimum of 20 years. Most of them have worked at the store longer than, you know, I've, I've almost been around. So I think when you go into that environment, anyone who's dedicated their life to something in retail, which is a grind, um, would be like, who is this kid? Even if you're

[01:01:30] really talented, which to tell you, I was not in any way. Um, but I think it was challenging in the beginning when I came back and committed, um, to doing it. Right. And I do want to get into that, but before we get into that piece of it, can we just go back and, and Joe senior, I'd feel like he's at the middle of the entire sort of history of, of the entire, um, company, but can you go back

[01:01:56] to just the origins? Like it is so the, the, the, the, the companies, the original storefronts known as the oldest ski shop in, in, in the country, um, started in 1920. Can you just give the origin story for Lahoots? Yeah. So my, my great grandfather, uh, Herbert Lahoot immigrated, you know, from Lebanon in, in 1898 and late 1800s. And, um, he was from the middle East. He was from Lebanon and he got a

[01:02:25] job on the transcontinental railroad. Um, you know, he was illiterate. He couldn't read, he couldn't write. He signed Ellis Island with an X and he worked all the way across and all the way back through British Columbia. And when he came back, they were putting a lot of people in, um, in Vermont and they were putting a lot of people in New Hampshire after, you know, the railroad thing was kind of over. And he, there was a lot of, um, Lebanese immigrants in, in, uh, Brattleboro,

[01:02:54] the Brattleboro, Barry, Vermont area. And there were a lot in the kind of graft in Coas County area. There were a lot of markets like, which is a very kind of Lebanese Middle Eastern thing all over Littleton, New Hampshire. There was a bunch of markets for different families. And he started just walking by, um, this old grain shawl when he was getting shifts at the ice plant, which was also

[01:03:19] in Littleton. And it literally is what it sounds like. It's you're going in to an ice plant of major ice blocks and making smaller ice blocks for sale. That's all you do, you know, 10 hours a day. And he walked by this grain shawl every day he was going to work. And he's like, obviously, uh, I want something more than cutting ice out of other blocks of ice. And he found a way

[01:03:46] to get possession of the old grand shawl and his wife, um, who immigrated through Providence, Rhode Island, also through Lebanon. Um, she did the brick, you know, the brick and mortar as we know it now. She was on that end of it. And he was on the road in a horse and buggy pedaling goods all over the County. So he would, a lot of the times be on the road for days at a time. So he would sleep in

[01:04:14] people's barns all over Lisbon, Landaff, all over, you know, Woodsville, things like that. And I even have family members, um, that are friends, families that are much older, whose family had been around here forever that remember my great grandfather, um, coming onto the property. Cause he was obviously very distinct guy. Um, you know, There's not a lot of, I mean, there's little clusters, but there's not a lot of Lebanese folks in New Hampshire.

[01:04:42] Correct. And, um, that's kind of how it started. Unfortunately for my great grandfather, who I did not know. And my grandfather, Joe knew very little of, he died of appendicitis out of the blue. Appendix burst, you're gone. So my grandfather was just a teenager. So he basically, instead of, he's a really good athlete, really good skier, um, very just great athlete. And he was kind of

[01:05:08] forced when he was in his early teens that this is your gig now. So he finished high school and, um, you know, basically on the side of working in the store full time. And that's kind of how this whole thing started, but that's the American dream. Yeah. And my, my great grandmother, uh, Annie Lahoot was also someone that I definitely think is worth mentioning in the origin of the, of the

[01:05:34] story. And it is touched upon briefly in the film, but she was kind of a woman well beyond her years because she was working in a male dominant industry. She was like an entrepreneur because her husband died and she was a real hustler. I mean, she owned more property than most men did in the area. And she just kind of had that gene, um, that, you know, is now very common with men and

[01:06:00] women, but for her to be a single mom in Northern New Hampshire with three kids during the great depression, um, she was probably the most natural entrepreneur of anyone. And she kind of really kept the business afloat while my grandfather was a kid. And then when he went to world war II. Okay. Um, so that's kind of the origin of Herbert, you know, you know, broke the ground, but Annie was really the one that laid the foundation before my grandfather, um, came back

[01:06:29] from the war. And Joe senior was really the, um, and this movie's fantastic. It's a 21 minutes, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll, we'll include it in the show notes, but, um, but he was the real, the driver for the, the, the, the, the ski, um, equipment and it was the, so the store was, it was a general store and then he had started the ski, um, piece of it, like as a piece of the store, but at some point did it become, that became like the main product lines.

[01:06:59] All of these places in this area of Littleton called Appthorpe Common, um, were these markets. So they all did dry goods like groceries and beer and guns and ammunition. And then my grandfather, because he was a very good skier, but also very into it when he was a little kid, that was like his, his zone. So he started this little ski shop, um, in the store that got more and more popular.

[01:07:24] And it was kind of the timing of like him pushing the sport onto people when the sport was exploding. And that's when all of the little mountains in new England, all the rope toes, all the cannon mountains of the world, um, they exploded. I mean, the ski industry started to explode. And my grandfather was kind of one of many people, but he was one of those guys that was there in the beginning, uh, from the retail side of it. Yeah. And I think one of the, I mean,

[01:07:52] I even experienced this with my kids. I mean, I made a commitment. I was like, my kids are all going to learn to ski. I learned to ski. Um, but I can tell you like, even going back into the, like the two thousands and the 2010s, we were lucky enough. I'm, I'm an Amesbury mass. We had a little store in Salisbury that would sell, you know, skis on consignment. So every year we could go, you know, we'd turn our skis in and then we would, you know, buy a new pair of skis. And then, um, you know, we'd make it a little bit of money on the consignment deal, but it was,

[01:08:21] it would allowed us to have access to skiing where otherwise it's difficult if you get to buy new skis. But I'm assuming that, um, most people, uh, in the area of relied on Lahoots for their ski equipment. There was probably wasn't a lot of options at that point. Right. Yeah. I mean, there were definitely, you know, Lahoots was definitely one of them, but there were also some really iconic shops, unfortunately, that aren't around as much like Carol Reed and in places

[01:08:47] like that, that, um, you know, we're, we're big ski shops or coming up, maybe not at the same time, but it was also, and, you know, I'm sure we'll go into the economics of it eventually, but like, it was also this time that it was, it was very, very affordable. And my, my grandfather's big goal because, you know, he grew up from a broken home. He had his own issues with his dad who passed away, you know, when he was a teenager and single mom, all that stuff. And, you know, skiing was kind

[01:09:14] of his outlet was where he felt that he was, um, if not better, the same as his peers that he felt very isolated from. So the sport of skiing to him was, his whole intention was to get other kids on skis and to make it as affordable as possible for kids to get on skis. And he made it this kind of like family operation. He never bought a house. So he was born in the store in the back. And when

[01:09:42] my grandfather, Joe was born, they built the apartment upstairs. So they built the apartment upstairs, you know, it was up there, but they made it in an apartment. Um, and he raised all his kids there. So my dad, my aunt, and my other two uncles grew up above the store that my grandfather was born in. So he made it this really eccentric, um, place to buy everything, but open all hours of the

[01:10:10] night and just kind of that, you know, that really Americana kind of ski shop in, you know, the fit, the fifties and the sixties and the seventies, you know? Yeah. It must've been interesting growing up in that environment. Do you remember as a little kid going in there and it must be an awesome place to hang out when you're a little, little kid? Yeah. I mean, and I, and I think even for my, my dad and his siblings, like it was their playground. Like they literally, they would hide in the racks

[01:10:36] and scare customers and, you know, like knock over, you know, sales reps displays and, you know, just do crazy stuff. Like your kids, like, you know, it's like a, it's literally a playground and you're always around all of these strange people, um, that are coming from the mountain or just, you know, went to the bar and, or, you know, you could smoke inside. So like, even if you go in today, there was like a little area where there was like cheese and beer that there were still the cigarette burns on the ground that people just smoked inside. So I'm sure it was like,

[01:11:04] if your folks owned like a pub in, in, in the old days, like it was just kind of always something going on. And as for me as a kid, you know, I lived up the street a couple of miles. Um, but it was, it was just kind of like second nature. Like I would walk home from school, um, when I was at the elementary school and go to the store and my dad would give me a ride home or, you know, something along those lines. So it was like always kind of part of it. But I think the connection that my uncles and my dad have is even like, that's their childhood.

[01:11:34] You know, it's an extension of mine, but that is their childhood. Yeah. Wow. No. So the, the history is amazing, but, um, I do want to get a little bit in, I'm curious about the sort of the retail industry as a whole, but just to go back to where we left it with you. So you, you know, you, you went wild out West, you did your thing and then you, you, you're back, um, getting yourself sort of, I guess, integrated into the company as, you know, maybe a little bit younger, you've got managers that have been there for a while

[01:12:03] that have worked with your father and uncle. You've got to sort of establish the, um, rapport with the, with the, with the staff and then learn, learn the business in a little bit more detail than you have before. How long do you think it took you to really like get to the point where you're like, I got it and I can, I can, I can do this. Uh, yeah. Or are you not there yet? Um, I think, I don't know. I'm probably a very slow learner as well. So I think that, you know, after I'm on my

[01:12:31] 10th year of involvement right now of participation, not as a partner, but as participating, this is my 10th year. And I feel like this, you know, give it just round numbers. 10 years is I think a very good amount of time of like learning a lot of areas that if, you know, God forbid my uncle's was like, Hey, he's my business partner. Um, who's done it for 40 years. He's 30 years,

[01:12:56] my senior in the store. Um, if he had to leave for leave absence, I would be able to not run into his efficiency, but the place wouldn't burn down. Right. Um, and I think that that's, again, probably my, my very low, you know, aptitude for it, but also just the retail industry that is, is constantly changing and is, you know, it's, it's really, um, especially now a very different environment

[01:13:21] than just like, if you have the location and the product and the staff, like you're good. Like it's, it's so many more elements, um, you know, that we currently have that make it, you know, you just learn every day or every year. Yeah. Right. And I, and I don't know, I mean, I don't know what ton about the retail industry, but my impression is that, and I do read a little bit about this stuff, but my impression is it's very difficult for a company in your size

[01:13:49] to basically the retail industry is built up so that, um, the brick and mortars need to have economy of scale so that they can, you know, work in tight margins and negotiate with suppliers. Um, you know, customers want a big variety of choices and products and things like that. And it's, that's not always the most profitable approach, but you guys seem to have found a niche and can you talk a little bit about how, how that came to be? Yeah. Um, we have like a pretty,

[01:14:19] you know, interesting setup because we obviously have our two known ski shops in our two known ski shops have outdoor clothing and most importantly, outdoor footwear. And that's like everything from stuff that you'd hike the AT, the Appalachian trail in to what you'd wear to work. If you're a plumber, electrician, you know, labor. So those are like two of the stores. Um, the other locations, you know, we have one discount warehouse, which is a place that we send all the stuff that's

[01:14:46] on sale from all the locations. So that's three down and that's a big liquidator in a great place to shop if you're a local person and you want to get the best price you can because you have, you know, kids in a family and all that stuff. So the other, you know, four or five storefronts, we've done these concept stores. And again, this is really out of very good timing and luck that back in the nineties, these companies were trying to get retailers to be these things called

[01:15:12] concept stores that would allow you to just sell a brand or selection of brands. And you would get it at a better rate than just selling it in a store with a bunch of other stuff and you would get a discounted rate, discounted dating, but it was like that brand and a bunch of non-competes and you had to staff it and you had to buy it. It wasn't a company owned store. So the North Face and Patagonia

[01:15:37] back in the day were like, who's an idiot enough to say, I'm going to do that. We, we were those not smart people. And it turned out that North Face and Patagonia became North Face and Patagonia. Right. So we were one of the first people to adopt this. They're called, they were called summit shops back in, in the day. And we kind of plugged and played that with a couple other brands. You know, we were the first cool clothing store on the East coast, the first prana store on the

[01:16:04] East coast, the first, one of the first life is good concept stores. So the other locations are kind of like shop and shops. They do have other accessory brands, but there's like a dominant brand that's on the signage that's taking up most of the square footage. So it's not like if you went to the summit shop, there's only North Face and Patagonia, you know, there's steel, there's after research, there's, you know, every accessory you could imagine for rock climbing and camping, but

[01:16:29] the predominant buys are those brands. And it's, it's helped us because the brands have been successful, but it also helps you because you just have a little bit more, you know, wiggle room in terms of the cost of those goods. So, you know, that has probably been the mix of it. And then my dad and uncles would always get like made fun of because in the eighties, that's when everyone was expanding and, you know, like ski market and ski chalet and,

[01:16:58] you know, successful businesses. But most of them are gone now. And we never really went into a space that we didn't own the real estate in. And a lot of the real estate we paid for, some of them were like pennies on the dollar and some of them were really expensive, but the rent element of it also allows you to be not at, you know, you're not under the

[01:17:21] gun if you have a bad year, if you have, you know, just a bad run with a brand. So that kind of insulated us because if you think about the great depression, we've gone through the real estate crash, you know, nine 11, um, wait, the, you know, wait downturn. So the recession pandemic COVID like, but it's helped us not that we've always had been, you know, super profitable, but I think that

[01:17:47] we've kind of taken that approach of just slow and steady in pivoting as much as we can of like, give a brand, you know, five or six years as a concept store, invest your staff, your time, your money, but you can't be afraid to try something new. You can't just continue to grind it out if it's like not working. And I think too, um, I don't know as much about, I'm a North Conway guy. Sorry. I just, that's my side

[01:18:16] of the mountain over there. Stomp is on your side, but I do, I've been getting over more. A hundred percent. I'm trying to get over more, but, um, I do think like I do, I get into Lincoln quite a bit, not as much Littleton, but Lincoln, I do feel like as well has become like a really, you know, it's an affluent area. You get a lot of people, you know, this is the week for you. You got all of them, all the, all the Massachusetts people are busy. So that's, I got to imagine that helps as well is that, you know, you've got these big spikes in weeks where you've got school

[01:18:43] vacation and then you've got the summer rush and this is a good ski season too, for you guys. Yeah. And I think what's really happened to the areas that has played into our hands, even though maybe the internet has taken away market share and third party marketplaces have taken away market share through discounting is that these towns, Littleton, Lincoln, Franconia, forever when I was a kid were like, you know, the winner, if you had a bad winter, you had a bad year.

[01:19:09] And now these mud seasons, um, that were maybe four or five months of the year are very slow seasons are basically May in the first two weeks of November. So instead of being four months long, it's like six weeks total long. So there's a lot more going on and that was happening before COVID, but that really threw a match on it. And then on top of that, um, the areas of Littleton and Lincoln, which is where we happen to set up shop,

[01:19:38] they haven't been on a downturn. They haven't been like, Oh Jesus, what's, what's going on here. So I think that we've been really fortunate along with that concept store and real estate model of like Loon is just getting bigger and bigger, bigger and more homes and homes and homes. And everyone has their opinion on that in Littleton, you know, the one stoplight town I grew up in that the main

[01:20:02] street in Littleton was all abandoned when I was a kid is now like probably rivaling North Conway on, um, foot traffic during foliage in the summer. So, you know, those are just things that have helped. Um, and like you said, if you have these good winters, like we finally had this year, it just is kind of the icing on the cake, but you can really support yourself now by having

[01:20:27] a good spring, summer, fall and a decent winter. If you have a decent winter, you can still, you know, pay your mortgage and stuff. Wow. Now, uh, I'm curious cause as a matter of fact, I just, I've been seeing cool products more and more, especially hikers are like, everybody seems to be transitioning over, um, to them. So how, how long have you had a partnership with them? And, uh, what is your impression of the products? Uh, yeah, they have been,

[01:20:57] we've been with cool for a while. Um, just as a, as a buyer, um, of, of cool, probably I would say, you know, I'm guessing here probably from, you know, the early 2010s when they really started getting on, um, um, our concept store with cool started in, I think 2019, 18, 2019. So, um, we've always done their lines in our shops and they were one of the strongest brands,

[01:21:23] which is why we pursued them to have a cool concept store. And I think as a wearer of cool and an advocate, um, they make really quality stuff that you can kind of work in, you can go out in, um, which a lot of brands try to do, but fail miserably doing. I think a lot of their materials that they make are, from my experience are a lot more durable, um, and really kind of like built to last. I mean, it's almost like you can run a pair of cool pants that you can run a pair

[01:21:52] of car pants. Like you can, you can beat on them. Um, and I think what's kept them really in a good spot is if you call cool or going through the billing department at cool, um, which I do all the time, they run that like as a tight ship. So they're very on top of their finances. They're very on top of the terms and the dating, the discounting. And I think when a brand is successful, they're just kind of like high-fiving and you're like, this thing's going to last forever.

[01:22:20] So in my opinion, cool has done it right from a, a in inside perspective because they're still running it like a small business. I mean, they're, they're counting their checks, they're, they're, they're on it. And I think that's made them probably continue this good run that they're on. Yeah. I, I highly recommend their hiking pants. I love them, especially the winter gears is great. So yeah, really versatile. Yeah. And then, um, as far as the, the life is good. So I've been,

[01:22:47] I have like, I feel like I get a life is good t-shirt. I probably got about 10 of those, but I like the way they fit, like for whatever reason, like, you know, I'm not the most in shape guy, but I feel like when I wear those shirts, I feel like I'm in better shape than I really am sometimes. Yeah. Stop. You should get one. You need, you need that look. Yeah. Yeah. That, that brand is like, it, I feel like it's always at the butt of everyone's joke

[01:23:11] and it's now almost more popular than ever. It's like the Gen Z population, which are, you know, the kids under 25, um, that would be me all day. And then you obviously have an older demographic that are just into that kind of like, um, you know, Jimmy Buffett kind of lifestyle. Right. And, and like, that's, those are tourists and they make really good stuff. And like, like I'm talking about with cool, these guys have been at it for longer, but it's those same,

[01:23:39] you know, owners that have done a really good job of like, we have a really good thing here. Um, and they're really good to their retailers and they're really good to their customers. And they've kind of just like withstood the test of time. I mean, every person has been like, you guys really have a life is good. So I'm like, if you go there from Memorial day to Columbus day, you'll like be bumping into people. It's a phenomenon that's last. I painted that one too, by the way. So when you go, think of, think of me.

[01:24:09] Oh, that was a harder thing. There we go. Yeah, that's nice. You know what I, I always say is like, uh, the life is like, I always sit with my wife. I'm like, Hey, don't get me anything. Don't get, I don't want a present or whatever. And like, you'll go and get the life is good. You know, it'd be a hiking one or it'll be a biking one or whatever. I like them. I do. Yeah. No, they've done a great job and they're like battle tested. They've like, regardless of what joke someone has, it's like those guys have the special sauce for the staying power that they've had.

[01:24:37] Oh yeah. The quality t-shirts for sure. So, so the locations then, so in Littleton, you've got, um, you've got the original location, you've got the summit shop and then you get the discount warehouse. And then in Lincoln, you've got, um, the, the ski and snowboard shop summit shop, which is North face Patagonia plus other products. And then you've got life is good.

[01:25:00] Um, and then you've got the Prana cool lifestyle shop. And then you've got the, the t-shirt shop, which is everything white mountains, right? Can you get a 4,000 foot of t-shirt there? Yes. Yeah. We can sell those kind of everywhere. Um, but those stores specifically in Lincoln, where the life is good store is, that's a concept with Columbia sportswear and O'Neill, um, clothing. So like that's one shop. And then the lifestyle shop, which is Prana cool

[01:25:30] is connected to the t-shirt shop. So it's very, very confusing if you haven't been there. Um, but there's kind of like several brands under the concept door. Um, and we usually try to bring brands in that have no association with each other because it obviously attracts tons of different people, not just t-shirt people or snowboarders or whatever. It attracts everybody. Right. Right. So, Hey, remember how we asked about you, you had asked about like, you know,

[01:25:57] are we going to edit this? Or do we usually go like, just with like the, the main edit? So this is going to be the part of the episode where you may say like, you need to edit this out, but in your scale of like, so you've got skier, snowboarders, you've got mountain bikers, you've got hikers, and then you've got regular tours. Like which, which, which, um, arch type of New Hampshire tourist or activity person is, um, is your favorite customer?

[01:26:24] Oh, favorite customer. Um, I mean, it, it, that, that's a loaded question, but I am very into, I oversee all the footwear stuff in our shop. So I'm very into it. I'm hiker, backpacker, all that stuff. So I would say if you're not, you know, picking up on the senses of like the, the, the smell that is coming off the person, I would say 80 hikers all day, um, are the funnest

[01:26:52] to talk to the funnest to get their gear. But if they've been on the trail, it's a, it's a ripe smell that you'll never forget in your life. So that's, go to the hostel first and then come to you. Yeah. But they're great people. They're obviously very into that stuff. They're shoes and backpacks and poles, and they all have like an adventure. So in the summertime, when you can wear t-shirts and shorts, I test all of the altros and the topos and the hokas.

[01:27:19] So I can talk to those guys. I, I usually go to South America and backpack every May, that one slow season I told you about, so I can battle test all the stuff. So, you know, they're a great demo to talk about. And that demo itself is really changing from, um, how many, um, you know, diverse age sets are doing it. And through COVID, it didn't really die down that much. It, it's still probably my favorite person to talk to. As I said, as long as they've gone to the

[01:27:49] hostel first and hose down. Take a shower, right? So you guys should open up a hostel. Now you get a captive audience. You're not leaving until you buy a new pair of trail runners. So what's, uh, what are you seeing from the through hikers as far as popularity for trail? I know like the ultra and the hokas were like a super popular. Is that still the case? Yeah. The zero drop market is really dominated still by ultra. Um, Hoka's speed goat line is right on that tier though. That isn't a zero drop shoe. And then

[01:28:17] topo are, is our third one that we're going to have this year. That's really picking up steam. It's not zero drop, but it has that wide ultra toe box. Um, all three of those are dynamite shoes. And I think the AT people now, like, I remember him as a kid is like these really kind of strange people with a big beard and a huge backpack and high tops over the ankle, full shank shoes. It's now the tiniest backpack, a tank top, short shorts, and up below the ankle trail runner, non-waterproof.

[01:28:46] That is the Appalachian trail. So that customer, um, obviously is in it for a very different reason. Um, and are very, I feel like a little bit more with it when it comes to what gear they want and need. So we kind of do our study of what we're going to bring in through the Appalachian trail season. Do you carry a lot of like backpacks and tenting, like hiking backpacking gear you do?

[01:29:13] Yeah. So our summer shop in Littleton and Lincoln both do, but the one in Lincoln, because it's on the Appalachian trail, you know, people come off right before they get on to Liberty. Um, they do every possible accessory, water filtration, tent, backpack, sleeping bag. And then our ski shop has all of our footwear. So it's kind of like a two-stop thing. Um, but everything you could possibly imagine, like you didn't, that you didn't even know existed. Um, is at that summer shop in the summertime.

[01:29:44] Yeah. When you go down to South America, what do you, what are you carrying for a backpack? Um, I have like a, a, a Deuter, uh, you know, 36 or 32. I, I, I carry it, you know, on the lighter end of things. Um, just because those bags are so good and I like to use every single thing in my bag. Um, but I go with, you know, a Speedgoat or an Altra Olympus in a 36 and, and just, you know, kind of just like the basic essentials to that stuff. But the bag

[01:30:11] and the, and the shoes are the most important stuff, you know, and enough socks. Right. Now, have you done all the 4,000 footers in New Hampshire and the list hiking? Um, I've, I've done, um, the ones I would say I've like really wanted to do like everything in the Prezis and Frank County Ridge and Boncliffe Ridge and things like that. I haven't done the super isolated ones. Um, you know, you know, like isolation and Owl's Head and stuff like that.

[01:30:39] Um, but I've done a lot of them and most of the stuff in South America was higher altitude stuff. So I really kind of hooked on that stuff through, um, going into the Prezis, a lot of stuff in the winter time, you know, if you're going up into Tux or the Gulf of Slides and, you know, February or March, it's much more of like a glacial navigation. And so that kind of got me hooked on doing that stuff and going a little bit higher in, um, you know, Peru and Ecuador.

[01:31:06] Wow. That's, that must, the views out there must be incredible. When was the first time you went out there where you went to South America? Um, I started going like five or six years ago, but it was mostly like, kind of just like picking my way down. Like I did a bunch of treks, um, you know, five, six day treks in like the jungle in Columbia. And then I went to, um, a big Altiplano, this big highlands area of Guatemala that's very rural. And I really started liking those when you're just like staying with a local family or a local tribe for like four or five

[01:31:36] days, just out of your backpack. And then, um, I really wanted to test myself with some of the higher altitude stuff, not overly technical, um, because I'm not like a skilled rock climber, you know, I can use an ice ax and crampons and stuff, but I'm not like doing a cliffhanger move, you know, at 20,000 feet. Um, but I really wanted to kind of like test it. So Ecuador is a great

[01:31:59] country. If you live on the East coast or in America that you're not spending days to get to the higher peaks, you're spending like a day or two, not like seven days to get to the peak you're climbing. And most of them are what you would call like technical glacial navigations. There's not anything in there besides, you know, some sketchy spots that you're having to make like full on, you know, life-saving rock climbing moves to get to the sun.

[01:32:28] Are you using a guide when you, when you do these trips? Yeah. All the ones in, in, in Ecuador and Peru are guided and like Cotapaxi before the volcano blew up and Jim Brasso and, and Cayambe are the ones that I've done down there. And those are like ones that you have to go with a guide. I don't believe you can get into the state park. And then I, you know, definitely wanted to exercise in the side of caution because when you first experience altitude like

[01:32:53] that, um, it's, it's an out-of-body experience. So I really wanted to make sure that when I was going through that, I was like with someone that like, this is what this guy does for a living, period. Yeah. Yeah. Cause they can get you down as quick as possible if you, if things start going south. Wow. That, that's pretty awesome. I, um, do you ever see yourself doing any sort of like long, um, through hikes in the U S at this point, or you, you prefer to do the world travel stuff?

[01:33:20] Um, I, I feel like I am still kind of itching the scratch of, of South America. It's a really great, like when I have the time off in May, that's a great time to go there. Like I'm going to be going to Argentina, um, in the Northern part of the country in May. Um, so I really like that area and I'm, I'm still kind of, it's very easy to travel the infrastructure of Peru and Ecuador and Bolivia,

[01:33:45] like unbelievable for a backpacker with, or with, if you're solo or not solo. Um, I think I could definitely be convinced to do some sections of the AT if I had a friend doing it or the PCT or whatever. I don't know if my job stays the same, if I can take like four or five months off to do trail. And then I think at that time I would also be thinking like, this is cool. But like,

[01:34:13] while I'm like walking through like Pennsylvania, um, would I in Ecuador? Like, yeah, I get it. We're not saying the, you know, the AT that's a, that's a really great feat to accomplish, but I just think I would be thinking about that unless it was maybe a little bit later in life. Right. Right. Wow. So while we appreciate this and is there any, you think there's any plans for expansion or you guys, you guys are hands full right now? Um, I think, I think we're sitting pretty tight. Um, I think we're always going to keep expanding our,

[01:34:43] our floor space and our square footage and like converting, you know, storage areas to new space and really trying new brands. Um, and then we are, we're not online online. Um, you know, we sell all our private merchandise or LaHootz merchandise online on our website, but we've, we've had a lot of success with third-party marketplaces like the Ebays of the world with really old antiquated products. So I can see our digital footprint probably slowly expanding,

[01:35:11] um, because it's, especially with the COVID bloat that every person has. I mean, you can buy a touring setup at for peanuts on any, in any ski shop because of COVID. So those platforms have allowed us to get our money back and reinvest in product that will actually sell. Um, so I think that would be more of an, of the expansion take. I, I don't know if I have the same aggressive

[01:35:40] opinion as maybe my dad and uncles did in the eighties with brick and mortar expansion. Um, I think there's only so much, um, you can do before you almost start, it almost just starts becoming inefficient. Um, because you know, with the staffing, with the payables, with the brands, the conflicting brands. And I think it's, it's really hard these days because unfortunately all

[01:36:07] these younger people, as well as millennials, now millennials, it's like, they've never had to go a ski shop. They've never had to go into a surf shop. So if you've never had to do that, like, why wouldn't you just buy it on your phone? Like, you know, it's like, it's like thinking about how few, you know, people under the age of 25 have had to like call somebody before they've never, it's always on text or email. Like I have three that are under the age of 25 and I get it there.

[01:36:35] It is, uh, they, they do, do, do like their online shopping. And it feels like with retail, like if you were going to go that route and expand, like you want, and it's so cynical, but it's like, you want to expand quickly, grow, grow the company. And then, you know, you sell it to like a, uh, venture capitalist or whatever, you know, it's like, it seems like that's not the model you want to do with a company that's been around for over a hundred years and is sort of a local gym. So yeah. Yeah. I think it's just one of those things, like part of the shop

[01:37:03] and why we're still around is like, it's this very quirky place with, you know, stickers and beer cans everywhere and history. And like, regardless of what you send in the online package that fades, um, that it doesn't come across the same. And it's like, you can't buy what we've built in those stores because so many people have worked there and their blood, sweat and tears and shop there

[01:37:28] with their kids and their grandkids. So it's really hard to duplicate that. Even if you have a great social media platform and great email content, it's like, it's not quite the same as walking into your favorite, um, store, you know what I mean? Right. Yeah. And as a non-local, like for me, it was just the vibe of being in one of those stores in New Hampshire is it's, I loved it. I love going in there and I'm a little bit older, but I do think like even my kids, they enjoy going,

[01:37:57] going to the brick and mortar. So, um, but yeah, keep doing what you're doing. And I, again, we appreciate you coming on here and Stomp. Stomp, I hope you put some slasher stickers around the la hoots when you were, when you were painting, you better have done your job. Well, I was going to ask for, uh, permission to put one of our stickers on the gondola. Yeah. If that's okay with you. Tag away. Tag away. All right. All right. I'm going to be out there probably tomorrow and slapping them on there.

[01:38:23] But, uh, back to, uh, just one final thing for me. Um, uh, thank you guys very much. Cause you've always been a supporter of search and rescue. And I know you guys have a discount at the summit shop for search and rescue members. So thank you for that. And, uh, yeah, appreciate you coming on. It's been great. Yeah. No problem guys. And keep up the good work. I love the, um, the podcast with Ty Gagne about Lions of Winter. I just finished it. So, um, great book, great podcast. Thanks again.

[01:38:51] Yeah. Well, we'll let you go get some rest. I apologize for my fellow Massachusetts people. I know that look, it's good. They're up there. They're spending money, but I know it's, it's busy. It's a busy week for you. All right. Stomp. That was cool. Huh? Yeah. Yeah. It's quite the story. The traditional, the true American dream come true right there. I love it. Have you ever walked through the store with the gondola on the front? I have. Yeah.

[01:39:20] It's so rickety and like cracking wood. Well, I haven't been to the one in Littleton. I've been to the ones in Lincoln. Right. Right. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. It's so great. So great. I love it. And the Summit Shop. I mean, for listeners, Summit Shop is the place to go for your hiking gear, but the boots at the gondola store upstairs, great selection. Awesome selection. Yeah.

[01:39:46] But it was great talking with him and yeah, he got me thinking about going to South America. It sounds awesome. Yeah. No kidding. That's an adventure. Cool guy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. He was a great guy. So hopefully we can get him back on in the future. All right. Stomp. So we got a couple of search and rescue stories here. So the first one is two climbers got mixed up in an avalanche. So this was on Sunday, February 16th. Fishing

[01:40:15] game was notified. Two climbers requested assistance. They were involved in an avalanche off Cannon Cliffs in Franconia State Park. So male and female climber had planned to ice climb the Black Dike climbing route and began to hike that morning at 8 a.m. from Lafayette Campground. Once the pair reached the base of the climbing route, snow gave way underneath them causing an avalanche. So one of them slipped about 300 feet before coming to a stop and was partially

[01:40:42] buried. The other hiker was uninjured luckily and was able to call 911. While on the phone on 911, she was able to locate her friend waving down slope. Very lucky. So eventually she was able to hike down to the mail and offer assistance out of the snow. He did suffer some injury. But they were able to self-evacuate towards the trail. Members of PEMI search and rescue were driven to the trail via snow machine. And initial contact with the climbers was made

[01:41:12] by the rescue team around 145. So they were out there for a while. So Vermont, New Hampshire residents, they were given a snowmobile ride back to the awaiting Littleton ambulance arriving around 150. And the climber had refused medical assistance and just chose to go to the hospital with his hiking partner. And, you know, all's well, you know, it happens. A lot of snow loading

[01:41:37] up in those areas and, you know, it happens. I'm glad they got out. Sounds like maybe a smaller one, but still 300 feet. That's a long distance. Yeah. Yeah. It's deadly. It doesn't take much at all. Doesn't take much at all. The talus field on Cannon is very, very unusual and different. You get, you got to experience it for yourself. If you park on the, the parkway and hike up a little ways,

[01:42:04] some of one of the climbers trails and just peek in. I wouldn't go up there without like a climbers helmet just to explore it. It's another world. It's so steep, massive boulders. The walls are exfoliating. It's crazy in there. Yeah. It just looks like when you drive up to it, it looks like these little tiny pebbles that you can walk right on, but they're huge boulders. Absolutely. Yeah. I remember going up there once. I've been up there once or twice, but I went up with Nick once and we

[01:42:31] were like, let's go. This is dangerous. It's crazy. Right. It can happen. So yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, and then the next one we have here is a, um, a snowmobile. So stop, you've got another sharp downhill left-hand turn goes wrong. You've talked about this before. So, um, did you put this in because of the headline? Massachusetts man injured in a snowmobile accident in Bethlehem. Hmm. Well, it's just the common story. Yeah. Happens so often. Yeah. And this one was on Monday,

[01:43:00] the bad weather. So, um, quarter 11 snowmobile trail. Um, so, um, snowmobile had stuck, struck a tree, um, on this quarter 11 in the white mountain national forest due to the remote location. They had to activate Bethlehem fire, Bethlehem ambulance, twin mountain fire and ambulance along with conservation officers. So, um, the twin mountain fire department was able to use their

[01:43:28] tracked ATV and rescue sled to get to the scene. 59 year old, um, Massachusetts resident was snowmobiling with his wife when he attempted to make a sharp left-hand turn on the trail. It appears that he pushed on the throttle instead of the handlebars while turning, causing him to crash into a ditch and strike a tree, which Stomp has talked about this multiple times this year already about not doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. The fishing game report. So if this guy had listened to you,

[01:43:57] Stomp, he would have been safe. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a pretty clean track record this year. Knock on wood. Good for you, Stomp. And keep it that way. The season's not over. Yeah. Yeah. Fear of God. Fear of God. All right, Stomp. That's all we got. That's it. Cruisin'. Fifth gear. That's it. Yep. Exactly. So until next week, folks, thanks for listening. Later. Thank you for listening.

[01:44:27] If you enjoyed the show, you can subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Podbean, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you want to learn more about the topics covered in today's show, please check out the show notes and safety information at slasherpodcast.com. That's S-L-A-S-R. Slasherpodcast.com. You can also follow the show on Facebook and Instagram. We hope you'll join us

[01:44:56] next week for another great show. Until then, on behalf of Mike and Stomp, get out there and crush some mega heat. Now covered in scratches, blisters, and bug bites, Chris Staff wanted to complete his most challenging day hike ever. Fish and game officers say the hiker from Florida activated an emergency vegan yesterday morning. He was hiking along the Appalachian Trail when the weather started to get

[01:45:24] worse. Officials say the snow was piled up to three feet in some spots and there was a wind chill of minus one degree. And there's three words to describe this race. Do we all know what they are? Only one hit! Here is Lieutenant James Neeland of New Hampshire Fish and Game. Lucinda, thanks for being with us today. Thanks for having me. What are some of the most common mistakes you see people make when they're heading out on the trails to hike here in New Hampshire?

[01:45:49] Seems to me the most common is being unprepared. I think if they just simply visited hikesafe.com and got a list of the 10 essential items and had those in their packs, they probably would have no need to ever call us at all.