Episode 191 - White Mountains History - Bemis Crew and Miriam Underhill, Bonds & Guyot Overnight Trip

[00:00:34] Rick Pecker's studio in the great live free or die state of New Hampshire. Welcome to the Sounds Like A Search and Rescue Podcast, where we discuss all things related to hiking and search and rescue in the White Mountains of New Hampshire and beyond.

[00:01:11] From the top, welcome to Episode 191 of the Sounds Like A Search and Rescue Podcast. Stomp remains on an international espionage assignment, so I'm joined here by Nick Sidla of the PUDS Podcast. And Lynn Sweezer of the Hiking Buddies. See, I just put in hiking buddies. That's where you're from, I guess. So this week we have a history segment. We're going to talk about the Bemis Crew and the story of Miriam Underhill and the creation of the 4,000 Footer Club.

[00:01:38] So we'll go through the origin story of the 4,000 Footer Club. Plus our rescue on the Presidential Range, some updates on projects that are going on in the White Mountains. And then I'm going to do the second half of a hiker diary from 1971, covering the New Hampshire section of the Appalachian Trail. So we left off on day six. We're going to go through day seven through 12. Plus we've got recent hikes in the Belknaps that Nick is going to cover.

[00:02:04] And then Lynn had gone out to Giotte, so we're going to ask her about her adventures. So a lot to cover here. I'm Mike. I'm Lynn. I'm Nick. Let's get started. That was terrible. Terrible. The timing is awful. We'll work on it. We'll work on it next time. Anyway, so right now we are going to go into our friend Christina of Wild Raven Endurance Coaching, and we'll talk to you on the other side.

[00:02:37] I'm Christina from Wild Raven Endurance Coaching. I work with athletes of all levels, from hikers to triathletes, helping you reach your goals with personalized guidance. With years of experience hiking, mountain biking, and trail running across New England, I also have a deep knowledge of the New Hampshire 4,000 footers and the surrounding trails. Whether you're a beginner hiker or a seasoned athlete, I'll guide you towards your goals, reducing injury risk and improving your performance through smart, tailored coaching.

[00:03:07] Are you looking to transition from hiking to mountain running? I'm here to make that journey easier, too. My approach combines strength training, mindfulness, and life balance on and off the trail. Let me help you find more joy in your sport while getting stronger and healthier along the way. Visit www.coaching.christinafulsick.com and start your adventure today.

[00:03:39] Okay, so thank you, Christina. So, we've got to get back in shape. Summer is coming, and that's a different level of like... We've been doing a lot of hiking, I think, between the three of us, but I do think that like hiking in the heat is a different animal. Agreed, agreed. Humidity and all that. Exactly. So, I thought we'd start the show off with just a little bit of a like catch-up with both of you.

[00:04:01] So, Nick, why don't I throw you into the frying pan? And so, Nick, a lot of people, a lot of crossover, a lot of people listen to our podcast and listen to the PUDS podcast. And Nick has obviously been a co-host along with our friend Josh. So, Nick, what have you been up to? Anything good going on with PUDS lately? So, we're still rolling through, and ideally just... And this is just the way that things worked out. But unfortunately, we're going to be sort of going on, or fortunately, I guess you could say, sort of on a hiatus.

[00:04:31] So, basically, Josh sort of had his own reasons for not wanting to continue the podcast. And coincidentally, and very timely, I was kind of reached out, maybe helping out with you guys a little bit over here. And I've got some other irons in the fire right now with photography and some other things. So, going to be helping out. Sounds like co-hosting and maybe doing some other stuff behind the scenes. So, it's good to be here. And yeah, for a foreseeable future, our podcast episodes will be up.

[00:04:56] You can download them. I kind of hate the term content, but I am really proud of a lot of the episodes we did over there. A lot of connections we've made with people like Lynn, who seems to be involved in everything, and even you guys on Slasher. We've been fortunate enough to talk to a lot of really great, interesting people, whites and beyond. So, we've had a great time, and we're really appreciative to all our listeners. And who knows, I'm saying we're going to do sort of one last goodbye for now episode. I think there'll probably be a place for it in the future.

[00:05:24] But right now, I think with everything going on, just going to kind of let it be and let it fly right now. So, yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. And, you know, between our main show and the new So You Want Us that we've been recording, we're going to be pushing out a bunch of those. Yeah, we'll definitely be hearing from you, Nick, which is great. Right on. So, yeah, you're busy enough. You've got a little kid going on, you've got work, you've got music, you've got podcasting. How is your baby doing?

[00:05:54] She's doing awesome. She's actually, I don't know if it'll bleed through, but bath time's actually going on right behind us right now in the next wall. So, if you guys hear any sort of screaming or singing or anything, she's been singing Let It Go from Frozen all the time now and just runs around the house. So, it's been a blast. And we actually got to go to a trampoline park this weekend, which was a good excuse for me to go on trampolines. So, that was actually kind of a lot of fun. Ash just told me that I need to calm down, my wife. She told me that I was having too much fun.

[00:06:23] And I was the only parent bouncing around. Yeah, I mean, the problem with the trampoline is that you forget that you're a 30-something, 40-something-year-old guy and you're jumping around on the trampoline. And your tendons, they don't think that you're 30 or in your 30s. They think you're old. Well, they don't think you're in your teenage years. They know you're old. This might be a threat. So, I think I remember this from a slasher episode. But, Lynn, didn't you hurt yourself doing one of those rope balance things?

[00:06:52] I forget what they call those. Slack lining. So, slack lining. They had a slack line there that I messed around with a little bit. And I tried it like four or five times. And I'm like, I feel like I shouldn't do this right now at like 930 on a Sunday morning. I made like four or five steps. I'm like, I feel like you could get really hurt doing this potentially. But it seemed like it would be also great for your balance as well. So, it was kind of cool. But I did give that a go and was kind of made fun of a little bit for trying it. But I'm like, it was there. We weren't doing anything else.

[00:07:18] I would slack line again if I was over a swimming pool or like, I don't know, like a crash pad for climbing or something. But taking it, you know, my foot kicked out to the side and I landed on a sideways foot is sort of what happened. And I never want to do that again. Ouch. Yeah, they had like crash pads, but they weren't like the softest things in the world. Like I still feel like they didn't give it. It wasn't like a pillow cushion or something like that. So, it was kind of like by the third time I hit, I'm like, I'm just going to call it.

[00:07:48] I'm going to cut my losses here and just stay with the trampolines for now. Yep. Well, good luck, Nick, on the trampoline park. I remember those days. It was always fun. Tubby time was always fun too. The kids would always get. But the problem with the tubby time is the kids would all get wired up and then they had to put in the bed. So, it was always a tricky time of the night, but we made it happen. I don't know how. That's what those like lavender bath bombs are for. True. Yeah, if you can give me a tip for why our child gets wound up like half an hour before

[00:08:17] bed every night and how to prevent that, let me know. But I haven't found it yet. Yeah, I mean, my wife used to get wound up. Mrs. Mike used to get wound up too before they go to bed. And she would like bring like too much energy. But yeah, it's good luck. You know what helps is if they have a sibling to play with. It tires them. Oh, really? Really? Are you, Lynn? Mm-hmm. I've heard that too. It's in the thought box. Yes. Get your child a child.

[00:08:47] That'll solve some problems and create others. Anyway, so Nick, it's good catching up. And then Lynn, you have been just a busy person over the winter with doing all kinds of events and you just had another event last night. So what have you been up to? Well, last night was wicked cool. It was Joel Antini, who is the former director of the EMS Climbing School. He's been a professional climbing guide for 50 years and team leader on mountain rescue service.

[00:09:14] So if you're not totally aware, mountain rescue service in my terms are the elite forces of search and rescue out in the White Mountains. So technical rescues, if it's above and beyond the skill levels of some of the other teams, mountain rescue gets called in. So he came and talked about shoulder season, preparedness, awareness, looking at some of the risks and some of the volatility because you're sort of sitting between that winter

[00:09:40] and springtime where you could still have long sliding fall risk because you have icy slabs or you have, you know, very heavy packed snow. But you could also be dealing with rocks. So you're probably doing a lot of changing of your traction, things like that. So he taught us a little bit about layering. What are the things that we're looking out for and safe practices during shoulder season? Yeah, he's a very interesting speaker.

[00:10:07] And so this event was a Hiking Buddy sponsored event that we did over like a Zoom call. And I think you'll give me the recording, right? I can put it in the show notes. Absolutely. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. And it was really interesting. So his philosophy around winter hiking in particular, shoulder season is it was very similar to what I've heard from other guides. It's a little bit different than what I've been talking about on the show is I've always

[00:10:31] preached the idea that you have to make sure that you've got enough gear with you to wait it out for a rescue team to get there. And I think Joe was similar, but also along the lines of some other people I've spoken to is his philosophy is to have enough gear to stay overnight, you know, not necessarily comfortably, but, you know, to ideally stay the night. So he just takes it to another level. And I think he's carrying a little bit more gear than I had thought about.

[00:11:00] But overall, it's sort of the same idea. He also did talk about like call for a rescue. Don't hesitate. We're there to come get you. So very similar to what I've heard from other people that are involved in search and rescue is that they just they just say, call us. You know, there's no hesitation around that. Yeah, absolutely. They don't want you to feel any shame. They'd rather it be an early rescue and try to get out there as soon as they can for you if that's what's needed. So it was really inspiring to just, you know, to hear him talk and to know that he's coming

[00:11:30] from a place of absolute ultimate experience. So it was great. Yeah, a lot of experience. And so we'll link the event in the show notes. And then anything else going on with the hiking buddies, Lynn? Yeah, there's a lot of things going on. We had, of course, the Snow Safe Summit was fantastic. We got such good feedback about it. I honestly, I was crying looking at, excuse me, like seeing all the comments on Facebook, all the posts and everything.

[00:11:55] It was just so inspiring to listen to everyone's stories of, I think one woman said, you know, she learned more in 30 minutes of Ed Perigo's water crossing class than she had in all of her years of hiking. So which it actually, Ed is going to be doing a class for us similar to what Joe did last night. He's going to do one on safe water crossing. We have that coming up on the 16th. I just haven't, I haven't had time to put that out yet.

[00:12:24] So I wanted to wait until after Joe. So we're putting that out for April 16th. And, you know, besides that, we are looking at doing a shoulder season event come, I think, like mid to late October. It's just in the planning phases. And hiking buddies itself is just about to go through a little bit of an exploratory. We're hoping to expand out what we have on the board of directors and also, you know, form some structurally sound committees and teams that can help run more projects because

[00:12:54] there's so much that we can do with the platform that we have and the resources and the people. I'd really like to be able to expand this out to some teams. Yeah, it's been great that the watching the, it's always been a good resource for events and people that want to connect with hiking, but the educational aspects of it that you guys have grown over the last year or two has been amazing. So big, big thumbs up for the hiking buddies and we'll include the links in the show notes on how you can check it out.

[00:13:23] So follow the Facebook page and even if you're not going to do any hiking buddy of events or hike hikes, there's enough event information in there that you should pay attention. Yeah, thanks. And then speaking of rescues, this was a pretty scary looking rescue from the news reports that I saw. There was a group of hikers, I think there were like four or five hikers that were stuck up on the,

[00:13:50] somewhere in the jewel trail near Mount Clay the other night. So the news article indicates that Anderscoggin Valley Search and Rescue, Pemagawasset Valley Search and Rescue Mountain Rescue Services and a COG Railway personnel responded to a call of a hiker with multiple injuries off the north side of the jewel trail, not far from Mount Clay. This happened on Saturday afternoon.

[00:14:18] So the hiker had reportedly slipped and fallen in icy conditions, had slid several feet off the trail before hitting an object. 29-year-old hiker from Quebec was coming off of a summit of Mount Washington with four other companions. So it was a group of five. Incident happened around 345 when they called for help via 911. Fishing game, we've talked to our friend Andy from the COG before about this.

[00:14:45] And generally, fishing game will reach out to the COG for assistance if they're available. Luckily, at this point, the weather conditions were, they were pretty bad. It was a lot of rain, high wind conditions. So it was tough conditions. But luckily, the COG was able to assist in relaying the rescues up the train tracks to where the west side trail crosses over the tracks. This is an area known as Skyline. So the COG has always been willing to step in and help with all these rescue situations.

[00:15:12] So this time, they provided a train, which saved the rescuers from having to do that three-mile hike up in rainy, icy, windy conditions. So the COG took the rescuers up the track in two different groups. And then the rescuers had to hike nearly about a mile to encounter. And they were going through high winds and icy conditions. They got to the injured hiker around 730, treated him for a leg injury. It looks like the hikers were pretty well prepared.

[00:15:36] Put him in a litter and carried him uphill back across the Gulf side to the COG. So 20 rescuers took turns carrying the hiker uphill in 40 to 60-mile-an-hour wind gusts across ice-covered rocks. There was a couple of injuries from the rescuers as well. But fortunately, the rescue crew made it to the train around 1015. So wow. That's nuts. I would not want to be stuck in that section and bad visibility and ice with winds ripping up the west side.

[00:16:06] Have you been over there, Nick, in the winter before? Yeah. Yeah, I've been on Juul a couple times in the winter. I think twice in the winter now. I've been on there in the summer too. But it's kind of funny because I feel like it's a very popular trail. But especially in the winter, if there's good snowback, it can be pretty disorienting. I don't know what the snowpack looks exactly like around there right now. And even without snowpack, I should say, it's a little weird kind of following the kerns on the way down and stuff. It kind of zigzags back and forth.

[00:16:32] And it's almost like people have kind of made it a choose-your-own-adventure rather than following the trail all the time. So yeah, and God bless those rescuers hiking back up. It said they traded off like 20 people carrying them basically going up back up to the cog. So holy moly. Yeah, and I've always opted to go down the cog. I've always looked across, you know, cutting across Burt Ravine in that area, thinking like, all right, that would be a fun way to go.

[00:17:01] I just, like you said, I was disoriented on the Juul Trail one time when I was going and there was no snow. And I think that I've seen probably a number of rescues where people have gotten off trail there. And I don't know exactly how much snow there was on it, but I do think in these, like, icy cold wind conditions, it probably isn't fun to navigate down that. Yeah. Yeah, it might be better off just following the cog as a straight shot, depending how icy it is. Yeah, but this is just another example.

[00:17:28] People like to disparage the cog, but another example of them stepping up and helping out when needed. Yeah, 100%. Yep. So very lucky. And what did you call the Mountain Rescue Service again? The, what is it, Lynn? I called them the elite forces of search and rescue, but that's an agent's term. Nobody else. Exactly. Copyright. Copyright. Awesome.

[00:17:57] Well, so Stomp was nice enough to throw in a little bit of history here because we're going to do a lot of history tonight. So Stomp had put this in the script for us. So he did want to remind us that the Jewel Trail, or as he likes to call it, the Jewel Trail. Yeah, you already screwed it up. Yeah, yeah. I call it the Jewel Trail and he calls it Jewel. I think that was on, like, our third episode. Yeah, it was an early one. He said Jewel, and I was like, what did you just say? Like, what are you talking about? Yeah.

[00:18:26] So, but just as a history reminder, I think we've covered this before, but the Jewel Trail, or Jewel Trail, if you're Stomp, is named after U.S. Army Sergeant Winfield Jewel. He went with Adolphus Greeley on the Lady Franklin Bay expedition to the Arctic in 1881, and Jewel recorded meteorological data. He was part of a 25-man group that was abandoned in the Arctic for a few years, I think three years. Only six of them survived.

[00:18:55] Jewel and many others died of starvation and exposure. Sure. And I guess that the connection with the naming is that his previous experience was at the observatory in Mount Washington. So he, you know, has an interesting story, and you can read about this first international polar expedition.

[00:19:15] I guess this was an expedition that went from 1881 to 1884 and was the first in a series of international expeditions to the polar regions, which was undertaken by these 25 men. And, you know, they sort of knew the risk. A lot of them had kind of accepted that, you know, this may be a one-way trip. And, yeah, that's basically it.

[00:19:44] Very crazy history there. So I'll put this in the show notes if people want to check out the story behind this international polar year and the expedition. But, yeah, when you're on the Jewel Trail, just think about this guy. Matter of fact, I think there was a little bit of cannibalism going on, Lynn, in that one. Hey, wait a minute. That escalated strangely. Right, right. Yeah. Well, think about it. You've got 25 people. They're stuck in the – they're doing a polar expedition. They're stuck up there for three years and not getting anything back.

[00:20:13] And people are dying and there's very little food. I can't think about that. That's just strange. I'll dig into that. I'll do more research on that. Reminds me of the Donner Party. Yeah, the Donner Party or the plane crash in the Andes, too. All great cannibalism stories. Yeah, I feel like I can immediately pop out some cannibal examples if anybody asks me. Would you offer yourself up, Mike, if you had to? Like you knew you were dying and you were the guy.

[00:20:43] Would you offer it up? Yeah, you know, I've talked about this multiple times with friends. And specifically when that Andes movie came out, we had a little text group and we were talking about it. Yeah, definitely. If I knew I was going to die, I'd be like, take a thigh. Very interesting. Very interesting. Yeah, I said don't leave my face for the family, but just take a thigh. Oh my God. Or a tricep.

[00:21:09] If you have to eat somebody, would you have like a particular area of the body where you feel like, all right, this is where I'm going first? I feel like a calf would be like maybe a solid. Yeah. Calf? I don't know. I'm thinking like rib cage. I don't know. Rib cage, maybe? Be like that's where the tender meat is. You know what made me think that. The rib cage. Okay. That seems like a lot of work, Lynn. All right. I'll rethink that. I'll get back to you on it. A lot of little bones in the ribs. That's true. That's true.

[00:21:39] All right. Well, you guys want to talk a little bit about some drama? Sure. Some New Hampshire hiking drama, mountain biking drama? Yeah. All right. All right. Well, Stomp, heads up. Thank you to Stomp for pulling this because he gave me this idea or he gave me the tip. But there's some new rules that are being proposed around mountain biking tied to the New Hampshire State Park.

[00:22:07] So if you've been on the trails at all, I think it's likely that you're starting to – I've seen probably two or three times now mountain bikers out in areas where I was like, sure, that you're not supposed to ride mountain bikes. But there are rules that allow for mountain bike riding in the White Mountain National Forest. There's some designated areas like the Appalachian Trail and then some certain other areas where you're not allowed to ride.

[00:22:34] But believe it or not, there are a lot of trails that you can ride mountain bikes on. And there's people that do videos and YouTube channels and stuff about their rides. But when it comes to the New Hampshire State Parks rules around mountain biking, currently they have like this weird rule that – and it's kind of weird. I'll put this in the show notes.

[00:22:57] But they have – if you go to their biking page in the New Hampshire State Park, it says that – it talks about that there's some great trails of bicycling and recommended trail systems. It says trails close to biking will be signed with no bikes and then trails – with a no bike symbol. And then trails may be temporarily closed to use during mud season to lessen the trail damage. But they talk about like there's stuff in Bear Brook.

[00:23:25] There is the recreational path on Franconia Notch. There is Potuckaway. There's Pisgah State Park and then Week State Park. There's a few other ones. But then they also talk about where bicycle riding is not permitted. But then they go on – like after the sentence that says where bicycle riding is not permitted, the next sentence is bicycle use on trails is not recommended.

[00:23:48] And then they go to lists like Cathedral Ledge, Cardigan, Crawford Notch, Echo Lake, Franconia Notch, Manadnock, Mount Sunapee, Mount Washington, Ossipi Natural Area. So a bunch of different areas that we're all familiar with. So it's a little bit weird. And I think what's going on is that they don't permit biking, bicycling or mountain biking in these areas.

[00:24:15] But there's no mechanism for enforcement because there's no fines for biking right now. So what's going on is that there's a new proposal to tighten up the rules around mountain biking. And in particular, they're proposing fines for people that violate the rules. So there's a new proposal, which is under – it's under Resolution 7300.

[00:24:44] Oh, actually, this is the wrong section here. But it is under Section 731.32. And it just highlights the places where bicycle use is not allowed, which is mostly on that list that's on the state park. But they also include a list of fines.

[00:25:04] And essentially what they're saying is that administrative fines will be $25 for the first violation, $50 for the second offense, $100 for third, and then $250 for each subsequent violation. So if you're caught riding your bike in these areas and you can go online and see people riding all over the place in the state parks, then you could be subject to fines. So I guess the mountain bikers are probably not too thrilled about it. But I'm kind of mixed.

[00:25:32] Like I've seen bikes on the trails before. And my view is most of them just hike the bikes up and they ride down. And I've never really worried about getting hit by a bicycle or a mountain bike or anything like that. So, I mean, I think it's – they should be following the rules. But I also think that the rules and the fines around it have been muddy for a long time. So now they're putting in these – the proposal to put in these fines and, you know, they may be looking to enforce in the future.

[00:26:01] So if you're a mountain biker, just be careful. Yeah, I feel like that's something really tough to enforce because just – there's a lot of – I mean, even you think of like how big Crawford Notch State Park is, like something like Franconia Notch. Like the odds that you're going to – unless you're actually like on a hiking trail or near it, like you're probably not going to see you. And there's so many slides in other places I would imagine that they can ride out there. I don't know. I've seen people on – well, Sticky for sure.

[00:26:27] I've seen people on Bald Face Circle ripping down from Salt Bald Face, which looked fun as hell, but also dangerous. And then I think – yeah, well, Sticky, Bald Face Circle, Cardigan is another one that I think is popular with – even though I don't think you're supposed to be riding out there. But yeah, we'll see. It'll be interesting to see if they actually do start enforcing it. They started to enforce parking, so maybe they'll enforce mountain biking. Yeah.

[00:26:57] So anyway, we'll keep an eye on that one, but could be a tough summer for the mountain bikers. I actually – one time in Rhode Island, I got overtaken by someone on like – not a mountain bike, but I don't know if it was an enduro or something, some kind of a dirt bike basically. And I was hiking with one or two of my other friends, definitely my friend Kristen and one or two others. And he came up right on the side of me.

[00:27:25] Didn't quite hit me, but kind of just brushed against me. Going really fast. I mean, definitely kicking it in gear, going up a hill, and it was really, really scary. So I know for like as a hiker, it can be really nerve-wracking to think that there's bikers around you, but you just have to stay as aware as you can. Yeah. Yeah, true. Yeah. I mean, the other thing that I do wonder is are they just – they can see into the future.

[00:27:54] And I see more and more of these electric motor bikes around, and they're getting lighter, they're getting more powerful. And I'm wondering, you know, if they – are they worried about more and more people trying to go uphill with these electric-powered bikes and then rip downhill? Because I think the technology is getting there. Yeah, it's funny you mention that, Mike. They're like – they seem to be big around – like I live in Rehoboth down in southeastern Mass. But around here, they're like pretty big with the younger kids, I'd say like teenage years. Like a lot of times, I was at the gas station, and like nine or ten of them just ripped through.

[00:28:23] Like I think they follow the power lines probably near here or whatever. But – and you can't really – to your point, Lynn, it's kind of funny. Like, I mean, they're loud, I guess, anyways, if you're on gravel. But they're really quiet compared to like a traditional dirt bike with a two-stroke motor. So say they could borderline sneak up on you probably and kind of be like, oh, holy crap, this guy's going like 30, ripping up or down a hill. So, yeah, it's interesting. It is cool that the technology is getting there for them to be a functional thing and have enough charge and whatnot. Oh, yeah.

[00:28:50] And I'm not surprised the kids are all jumping all over this. I mean, we had mopeds when we were that age. Before we could drive, we would all figure out ways to earn enough newspaper money to buy mopeds. So it's probably the same thing for these kids. All right. So moving on from that, we'll keep an eye on the mountain bikes. But there's a couple of project updates I just wanted to give people a heads up on. One is, and this was a shout out to Ken McRae and the 52 with a View Facebook page.

[00:29:19] So Ken had called this project out. So Webster Cliffs, there's a proposal. And no work would be done on this probably until another year or two. But there's a proposal to take Webster Cliffs and relocate it and basically push it deeper into the off of the ledge on the lower section and then push it into the woods.

[00:29:43] So relocate it so that you're, I think it's about an eighth of a mile or eight tenths of a mile of relocation that they're proposing. And yeah, essentially the explanation is that the old cliff trail is getting worn out and just too difficult to maintain.

[00:30:04] And they were going to push the trail inland a little bit off of the cliff area and then bring it back at a higher elevation where the trail's in better shape. So I really, I went out there this winter. I didn't really get a good view on the trail conditions, but I can tell you like getting over some sections in the snow was ridiculous. Me and Jake were killing ourselves trying to do it. So hopefully this will maybe also level it out a little bit so it's not as steep of a climb.

[00:30:29] Yeah, it looks like it's going to follow that drainage a little bit further up and then just kind of cut back out to where the current trail is. Yeah, yeah. So it just, exactly, it looks similar to what they're going to do with falling waters is just take it away from the eroded part and loop it back around. But yeah, it's definitely going to extend it a bit. So the Appalachian Trail will get a little bit of extra distance on it.

[00:30:55] I like how I'm struggling to find the exact wording, but I like the wording they use to basically say that it's turned into a cliff side, basically where that trail is. They're like, it's kind of eroded and it's a cliff. Yeah, yeah. I didn't really get any sense of danger from it, but I do wonder whether me and Jake, when we were up there this winter, went off trail inadvertently. Because if we had stayed on trail, it might have been too sketchy. I'm sure if it's eroded, maybe there's, and how much traffic it gets, there might be AT hikers starting to make herd pass through the woods around some of those sections and stuff anyways. So it might be a contributing factor.

[00:31:25] Yeah, that's a good point.

[00:31:55] All right.

[00:32:26] There's a cutting that needs to be done that they want to make sure that they conduct that between November 1st and April 1st. There's no dates or timelines on any of this work. I think there is an estimated implementation timeline of July 2025. So we'll keep an eye on this. And if we can get information on when Lincoln Woods is going to be shut down, we'll update. But it's going to take a little bit of time on this one. So I would expect that Lincoln Woods at some point in the near future will be shut off for a little while. Did they have a map, Mike?

[00:32:56] I didn't see on this one as far as where the relocation is. Is it just that they're going to push it further away from the river and then reinforce the riverbank? I believe so. I got to look through the documents again to see if they... Yeah, this one had a lot more information on it than the first one. Yeah, yeah. I think that... I don't know if they're going to do anything. They're probably just going to push it to the left a little bit and then reinforce the riverbank, would be my guess.

[00:33:24] So depending on the timing, if they do it, if they start working on it in June or July, then the Eastside Trail is an option. I wouldn't recommend anyone try to do the River Crossing. Although you have heard many people tell me that they've done it, no problem. But Eastside Trail is always an option to loop around, go the far way, or you can go Osseo and then get into the Pemi from that direction.

[00:33:52] But it may force people to get in from Zeeland, Gale River, whatever. You just come from that direction moving forward. All right. So next up here, I have a follow-up. So I had done... Last week, we had done a segment about this guy named David O'Dell, who had put together his journal from 1971 on the Appalachian Trail. And I thought this was interesting. So he went through his plan.

[00:34:21] So this is in September. This starts on day seven of his time in New Hampshire. So this is his 98th day on the trail. And it's on September 23rd, 1971. And he left off at Giotte Shelter, which we're going to talk about in a little while, Lynn, because you spent the night over there, I think, a couple of weeks ago. But he ended up in Giotte Shelter.

[00:34:46] He had previously done like a zero day in Woodstock at this store called Ski Meister and had gotten some trail magic or food from like this minister guy that lives in the back of the store and then got dropped off, went through Franconia Ridge, had a beautiful day, and then finished his day at Giotte Shelter. So now he's on day seven.

[00:35:08] He woke up at 530 in the morning and beautiful sun coming over the ridge, cooked breakfast and headed out, stopped at Sealand Hut for some hot chocolate, ate lunch at Crawford Gap, and then climbed up Webster Cliff. He said that it was a good steady climb, started to get cold and windy, and then made his way to Mizpah's Spring Hut, had a good dinner.

[00:35:35] He actually ran into some random people that were talking to him, and they were asking, you know, what's your story? And it turned out that they knew a friend of his. They had a friend in common. And this friend was actually out on the John Muir Trail hiking. So they must have said like, oh, we have a friend that does that. He's in Yosemite. And then they compared names, and it turned out that it was his friend. Small world. Small world.

[00:36:00] So yeah, but he ended up in Giotte Shelter, and then he was basically like, yeah, this weather's not getting any better. I got to hurry because I only have 23 days to go. So I've got 325 miles, and I got to do 15 miles a day, but like the weather's coming in. So sure enough, the next day, he ends up heading out of Mizpah Hut, gets over across Pierce over to Eisenhower, and gets slammed with 80 mile an hour winds, 20 degree temperature.

[00:36:29] He had to turn back around. Yikes. So yeah, so he ended up doing just basically a zero day at Mizpah after turning around. And then on day nine, he does make his way up Mount Washington. Miserable conditions. Icy, 20 degrees, and makes his way from Mizpah to Pinkham Notch late in the day. Wakes up from Pinkham Notch. Sick. Has to climb up Wildcat Ridge.

[00:36:56] He's basically, it sounds like from the entries in the journal, his stomach's not working out too well on Wildcat. So he's sick all day, struggling, and he finally makes it to Imp Shelter at the end of day 10. And then from Imp, because he lost that day at Mizpah, that was supposed to be the day that he goes into Gorham for the day. He ends up going Imp to Genshin Pond.

[00:37:20] And so he took a little bit of an hour or two drive into Gorham and then got back on trail and then finished the night in Genshin Pond. So he basically went down Rattle River into Gorham for a couple hours and then hit the trail back out and then made his way up to Genshin. And then into the next day on day 12, Genshin Pond to State Line in Maine. So 12 days to get through in 1971. Wow. Whew.

[00:37:51] Very typical. But he did finish, but it was interesting that he had timed it so late. He was really just, he talked about there was like four other groups in front of him that he was catching up to. So I'm going to reach out to him and see if he wants to come on and talk about it a little bit more because it's a pretty interesting journal. But if you haven't checked it out, I'd say check out the link in the show notes. I was interested too. Like I know that like you had noted, he saw that Baxter was closing in 23 days from the kind of when he was in that section.

[00:38:21] Like I always thought Baxter kind of just closed whenever they got the first significant snowfall or maybe that maybe that's changed over the years since like the 70s. Maybe they had like a hard date back then or. I can't remember. I think that my recollection has always been like it's a hard date, but there's a caveat that they will close it early if the weather gets bad. Gotcha. Gotcha. Might have must have understood that. That makes sense though for people shooting to do the AT to try to finish, but I guess I never really looked into it.

[00:38:51] Yeah, I think that it's actually October 15th if I'm not mistaken is kind of that date that it sets at and then yes, it can be later or earlier based on conditions. Gotcha. That makes sense. Yeah. I had to look at the date that I hiked Katahdin. It was in October and there was no sign of snow at all. I mean, it was a beautiful day. So you can, I'm sure that there are some years where it's, it's, it goes a little bit longer, but yeah, I was worried about that. As a matter of fact, on the timing, I was like, are we going to get snow?

[00:39:20] Because it was like mid, wasn't, I don't know if it was October 15th. It might've been the weekend before. And I was thinking like, if we get snow up there, it's going to, that's not going to be fun. It worked out to be perfect. There have been times they've gotten good snow storms, what, August, you know, on Katahdin. Oh yeah. Really crazy weather up there, even July. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, but yeah, I'll link this in the show notes and people can check it out and follow along with his adventure.

[00:39:46] It's really interesting to see how the trails change so much, but it's also very similar. Like the, the shelters and some of the places he stayed at were quite different, but the, the, the, the general tone and what he experiences very similar, I think, to what a through hiker experiences now. A lot of trail magic, staying at the same areas and experience in the same scenery. Say back a while too. Didn't the AT actually go more directly through Gorham instead of going east of it?

[00:40:17] Maybe that was before the seventies. Even I feel like someone had dropped that knowledge on me before. Like it actually used to run into almost the center of Gorham and then they ended up pushing it east at one point. Oh, I didn't consider that. Yeah. Maybe because what is that trail? Little Mariah. Uh, I, I'm not positive off the top of my head, but I, I feel like I know what they said at the time. I think Gorham wasn't super thrilled about it because like they were kind of one of the major, I mean, they're still adjacent to it, but I think it like went almost to like main street and Gorham at one point.

[00:40:45] And then it started, then they pushed it east at one point. Um, yeah. I don't know if the Carter Mariah trail trail used to go more west than it does now. Um, I don't know exactly. We'll have to check that one. I'm not trying to, not trying to drop lies here on slasher, but, um, I have heard, I have heard that before that it used to go more directly through Gorham. I'm just not sure the timeframe on it. Yeah, no, you can lie. You can lie. Oh, the listeners will like reach out on the Instagram and be like, yeah, maybe one of them knows more about that, but I definitely had someone tell me that before. Yeah.

[00:41:14] Cause that would make sense then because if you, cause it goes down a rattle river, but like Carter Mariah would take you right into Gorham. So, um, and then, yeah, it would make sense if you go into Gorham and then instead of, um, hitting the, uh, what is that? The trying to remember the name of the trail. Yeah. It's a centennial trail. If what you're saying is correct, then you'd go, yeah, Carter Mariah.

[00:41:41] And then the Mahoosic trail, the beginning of the Mahoosic trail would start from, from Gorham. So, um, I'll have to, I'll have to do some research on that. Yeah. I did find a store. I mean, not to do go too much, but just dynamically looking while we're on here. But if you look on the Appalachian trail conservancy site, it references Gorham and it says that the trail used to go through town at one point. So it must've been a while back. Oh yeah. If you throw that in the show, in the, um, the script, I'll put that in the show notes. Sure. Yeah. I can do. All right.

[00:42:09] So I'm going to skip the, the Brown beers in Slovakia cause we are running a little late here, but I'll, I'll pull that next time. Um, but I wanted to talk a little bit about gear. So Nick had, uh, messaged me, Nick, you had some good experience with Arc'teryx. So I always, Lynn, do you have any Arc'teryx gear? I do. You seem bougie. Yeah. I do. I get it. I get it. I'll tell you what though. I got it at the, um, REI garage sale and it's like my up and over belay jacket. So it can, it's like a women's XL.

[00:42:37] It can go over anything that I have and it's lightweight. Do you use it a lot or is it just like, is it like a final shell if he needed above treeline? It's my backup buddy parka. If I need something that I can give away, use, you know, get myself wrapped up in if I'm, everything else is not working. Okay. All right. Well, Nick has a good, so I'm always like, I do go into the Arc'teryx store. Matter of fact, when I was in London, they had a store and I was like excited cause I

[00:43:04] thought in my mind, I was like, well, maybe it'll be way cheaper here in London. Foolish me. I was like, maybe there'll be more, um, reasonable, reasonably priced in London, but they were like equivalent to what you find in the U S like, I think like four to $600 for a shell, uh, was what I, what I was seeing when the last time I priced it out. But Nick, you have a positive story. Yeah. I had a pretty good story and it's funny cause I feel like everybody has the same sentiment about Arc'teryx as they are like just some of their stuff's crazy expensive.

[00:43:34] Like they're, I was on their site. Um, and yeah, like their high end shell is like $900. But anyways, um, I had gotten similar to your story, Lynn, I had gotten the Zeta jacket, which actually I didn't realize till I was trading it in is actually one of their, it's actually like a rain jacket. It's not actually marketed specifically as like an Alpine shell. Um, but when I was out doing Carter dome earlier, probably back in December, um, one of the pockets actually ripped out. Um, and I know that they basically market a lifetime warranty on all their stuff and I've had it since 2019.

[00:44:03] Um, so I reached out to their support and they were super responsive. Um, so maybe kudos to kind of the money you spend on them for, for how they respond. But like literally within 30 minutes of opening a case, uh, they were going back and forth with me and they asked some like questions that make sense. Like, what were you doing with it? Which I'm like, I just was hiking. They're like, what do you use it for? I'm like, I generally just use it above tree line kind of in winter and shoulder season and stuff. So, um, once they confirmed sort of the pictures of the damage, um, which were easy enough

[00:44:31] to send back an email, um, they basically told me that because of the type of material that it's made out of with Gore-Tex and I forget the name of some, it might be a proprietary or something else that they make it out of, um, that basically the repair, um, wouldn't be feasible. So as soon as I, um, shipped it to them in the mail through USPS and gave them a tracking number, they immediately gave me a $400 voucher, um, to go on their site and which basically bought me a new beta, um, shell. So that was a pretty good deal. I just had to pay for shipping and tax.

[00:44:57] So, um, yeah, a little shout out to our Terrix with the money that you do spend on them. I've had good, um, experience with that shell. Um, it's kept me warm through probably six or seven seasons now and shoulder seasons. Um, but yeah, I mean, really good customer service. Um, I think you kind of get what you pay for to a degree with them, but some of their stuff might be a little pricey, like a $900 shell just seems a bit extreme. And perhaps if you're a professional mountaineer, it's, it can be your deal. Like Mike. Yeah. Yeah. Please. Yeah. Like Mike.

[00:45:28] Exactly. So my shell was, I got a good deal. I have a, um, it's court. It's not cortex. It's event, which is just another like same material, but a different, different brand. But I have an Eddie Bauer that's like $199. So, but I've been happy with mine. I've seen event technology, I think in shoes, if I'm not mistaken. It's like a reverse or it's a membrane where it lets out, but not in. If I'm not mistaken. Something like that. Yeah. Supposedly it's the same thing as Gore-Tex or similar to Gore-Tex. It's just another, another brand.

[00:45:57] Um, the problem with my, I mean, I mean, you get what you pay for because I don't have like pit zips or anything like that. It's super comfortable. Those are crucial though. The pit zips. Once you go pit zip, you don't go back. I swear. Yeah, I guess, but I'll tell you, I've never really worn my shell for an extended amount of time where, um, I needed pit zips. Like I wasn't sweating out. I just, usually I put my shell on when I'm above tree line and the wind's hitting and it's pretty cold.

[00:46:27] So I haven't really hiked too much where I've needed it, but yeah, I'm sure that that could change for sure. So. Yeah. I've definitely had times where I was wearing it like going uphill, like in wet snow or whatever. And it really came in handy having those pit zips and you get to see, uh, it's also maybe a little gross seeing your steam just come out of the pits as soon as you release it. But it feels amazing. Oh, that's it. That's right. It's like, it's when you're in those car wash situations when you climb it uphill and the snow is on. Yeah. That's a good point. That's exactly when I use it. And it's also to protect my clothes.

[00:46:56] So yeah, when you're in the car washer up there, I want the Gore-Tex just to keep my, my, my, you know, protect my gear. So yeah, that's when the pit zips help a lot. True. True. Yeah. And if people don't know what we mean by car wash, what we're talking about, especially in the early season, uh, with snow falls, it lands on these, uh, the trees and the trees bend over and they, they blocked a trail. So, and you know, you get warm weather, cold weather. So the trees are a little bendy and what ends up happening is early season winter.

[00:47:24] You like knock a lot of snow off of the trees when you're going on these trails. So you, you call it a car wash effect. So you can get really wet, even on a beautiful day, you can get wet, especially if you're sweating and then the snow lands on you. A shell helps basically block you, but it's a double-edged sword because it blocks the snow from melting on you, but you also generate a ton of heat. So having pit zips will help with that. Yeah.

[00:47:49] And even just the branches wanting to rip apart your soft shell or your mid layer that you have, that's the Gore-Tex helps with that too. True. True. Yeah. Um, all right, Nick, well, I'm happy that you're happy that you got a good deal from Arterix. I'm happy that you're happy that I'm happy. All right. Well, you're very bougie with your, your fancy gear. I always get like, everybody's like, oh, he's getting Arterix shell. That's always. Right. I thought I was cool because I have an outdoor research, um, soft shell, but I have my Eddie Bauer cheapo shell. So I'm good. Whatever works, whatever works.

[00:48:19] There you go. All right. So, uh, Stomp pulled another cool video here of a, the future of mobility. So we are here at Slasher. We are always looking at cutting edge. We, uh, we talked about years ago how AI was going to change everything and literally nothing's really happened other than, you know, it's helping me write emails. So sometimes we hype these things up and it doesn't really like pan out, but we're working on it. But anyway, this, this video that Stomp pulled together is, do you know, Lynn, have you ever seen those robotic dogs?

[00:48:48] Dogs usually they have, there was like a, a movie episode where the dogs had like a gun on them and they were weaponized, but like generally the robotic dog, you know what I'm talking about? I do. Absolutely. And I know what the Corleo is, so I can't wait for you to talk about it. Oh, you do? Well, I don't know what it is. So why don't you explain what it is? So, um, if I'm not mistaken, it's basically like the, is it the leg? Um, what's the word I'm looking for? Like the robotic legs where it attaches to your hips and your knees and it helps you walk. No, no, no.

[00:49:17] This is a little bit more of a, like, I've seen that before, but this is by Kawasaki, um, heavy industries. Oh yes. It's a concept and it's essentially like a, it's, it's one of those robotic dogs, but it's a little bit bigger than a dog. And it's set up like you sort of like ride on top of the dog, but it has like controls like a motorcycle and it has like built in GPS. And the idea is, is that you would ride this motorized thing, which is kind of like a big

[00:49:44] dog as you would ride a motorcycle, but it walks and it can go over rough terrain. So you could basically ride this motorized Corleo, Corleo dog up and down a mountain and like jump all over the place. So it's, it sounds pretty cool. Okay. Robotic mountain goat. Yes. It's a robotic mountain goat. That's the way to put it. I take back what I said. I have no idea what this thing is. I thought it was the, uh, the exoskeleton. That's the word I'm looking for. But yeah, yeah.

[00:50:13] I think that that would be, this is wild. It's definitely, it's science fiction. Have you either watched a black mirror ever? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There's like, isn't, yeah, there's definitely an episode with like robotic dogs where they're like hiding from them. Right. Like that's all this comes to mind. It just seems like sheer terror. Yes. You can ride these, I guess, but I don't know if I'd want it. Also, I feel like riding these would be like, you'd really have to be secured quite well. Um, to one of these to me, it's like, right. It'd be like riding a horse or something except up mountains. And they have like this guy like riding across like glaciers and stuff.

[00:50:44] I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah. Especially, I think going downhill, they would have to have a way to level it out a little bit better because I feel like you would just fall forward, but we'll see. We'll see. I think that we'll probably be pretty old by the time this technology gets applicable to actual use, but we'll put it in the show notes and people can check it out. It's called the Corleo. Um, it's by Kawasaki Heavy Industries and maybe someday you'll be riding a metal horse up a mountain.

[00:51:12] Um, it's so creepy. Yep. So, and then, uh, Stomp put in a plug here for metal zip ties for traction failure. So this is the time of the year where your, your rock, uh, spikes are getting beat up pretty badly. So I think Dave, uh, our friend Dave Schitts in the woods had given the advice to make sure that you use metal tie wraps for traction failure because if you use the plastic ones, they're not going to hold. That's a good point.

[00:51:39] I mean, depending on the, yeah, the thickness of the tie wraps, um, they'll hold temporarily, but yeah, if you're doing technical stuff, those metal ones probably be a lot better. It's a good point. Okay. Yeah. I have to say I never carried those in my pack until, um, Slasher had done an episode. I think that was the recap of when they did, uh, the, the lost pass, right. When him, Navi and Dave went out and Dave had like multiple snowshoe failures. And after I heard that and how much we use snowshoes this winter, I'm like, I'm going to go, I'm going to go buy some metal zip ties and keep them in my pack. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:52:08] And the thing with the metal zip ties is that if you do need to use them, um, you want to use them with like, say something like a duct tape or, or some material that if the metal zip ties are touching directly with your like boots or, or any other straps or things like that, the risk is, is that they're going to cut through. So you do need to like wrap them with, um, duct tape or something like that to just kind of soften them up a little bit. Yeah. So, and I always keep the duct tape wrapped around my hiking poles.

[00:52:36] So if I need them, they're just, they're just there. Hey, what's that sound? It must be time for the pop culture segment with Mike and Stomp. Um, all right.

[00:53:04] So Stomp put in something here about that show Severance, but I don't really, I don't watch it. So I can't talk about it. Do you, do you, Lynn's, Lynn's got her hand right. All right. You're the expert on, so shocking numbers state that they would get severed if real. So I don't know what this means, Lynn, but, um, you seem very excited about this show. Yeah, I definitely. So when, when it first came out, I gave it a shot and I thought it was terrible and I really didn't, I didn't think much of it. And then I started watching some of the Instagram stuff about it and there's a lot of different

[00:53:32] things they do cinematography, cinemagraphically. Is that the right word? Cinematography. I don't know. Cinematographically. There we go. We'll throw it out there. That. Um, in the cinematography, basically there's like one principle, for instance, they only shoot, I think there's only ever three colors showing. So it's like red, green, blue, the colors of light. And they try to stick to those. And the premise is that if your brain isn't having to process all those colors, it's able

[00:54:00] to process the information that it's trying to give you. So it's really got some like deep seated different, um, things going on with it than other than like just a regular dramatic show. But this, the premise is basically you can get a surgery in your brain where it severs your memories from your home life and your work life. So you enter the building, you go in the elevator and boom, the chip inside your brain is turned on and you suddenly have no memory of who you were outside of work.

[00:54:29] So the idea being that you won't go to work. Let's say you're going through a breakup outside, you know, in your personal life. You're not taking that with you to work because you have no idea that it's happening. So you can sort of sever yourself between home and work. But then there are times where things could cross over. I won't give any spoilers, but, um, basically it doesn't exactly work out the way they think. And I like the way they did the show. Yeah, I've heard good things about it.

[00:54:56] I got to get Apple TV, I guess, but, uh, I don't know. I thought we were supposed to bring our whole selves to work, but now this, this has gone completely the opposite direction. Yeah, well, that's the good part about it. You get a couple of people that try to go rogue and then it's, it's all just a shit show from there. So. All right, well, I'll have to check it out at some point. I've been, I've been very into White Lotus. Mrs. Mike likes White Lotus. So we just watched the season finale of that. Very excited. Um, kind of panned out the way that we expected it to pan out. So it was good. I like it. Good character driven series.

[00:55:29] Awesome. Speaking of characters, there are a bunch of characters that are going to be hiking the 48 peaks this summer. So, um, if you're interested, use your passion for hiking to help end Alzheimer's. Join 400, 400 hikers. Megan, we're going to get 800 hikers here. 400 plus hikers as they climb New Hampshire's 4,000 footers or create their own challenge to support the mission of the Alzheimer's Association.

[00:55:55] The annual hiker celebration will take place on Saturday, June 21st at Tuckerman Brewing with raffles, food, and an amazing community. You can hike that weekend or any day you want this summer. No fundraising minimums required, but those who raise a hundred dollars will receive the 2025 performance grade purple t-shirt. So let's turn the white mountains purple to end Alzheimer's. Visit ALZ.org slash 48 peaks to learn more.

[00:56:22] And if you're interested in doing this and you don't have any friends and you're looking for some friends and you want to join up a cool team, Slasher has a 48 peaks hiking team that is co-captained by our friend, Nobby Hikes and me. So we'll be going on Mount Madison on the morning of June 21st and then heading to Tuckerman Brewing and having a good time to finish up the day. So if you're interested, you want to hike Mount Madison, we don't exactly know what the route is going to be yet.

[00:56:52] It's going to be me, Nobby. We got one other person signed up, a listener that we're excited to meet. And then I think Nobby's son is coming. My daughter and her boyfriend are going to be coming. So there's plenty of room on the team if you want to sign up. Check out the link in the show notes and you can sign up. Lynn, you're always scheming. You got stuff going on. What team are you on? Are you on my team or you get your own team? Nope. I'm breaking away from you, Mike. I just, I couldn't take hiking with you last year. So I thought I'd better have a different team.

[00:57:21] I think I glommed onto your team last year. So now I'm going out on my own. I think so. So what, my team's not good enough for you, Mike? Well, I figured I wanted to just expand. It was more about like expanding. Yeah, I have a team started right now. It's actually with, geez, Louise Hoops is one of the people on my team. Amy. Yeah, she's so, by the way, she's so talented with her, the gear making. She's making wallets and purses and just huge shout out to her for getting into that space.

[00:57:51] So she's on my team. I'm pretty sure my friend Monique is on my team. Oh, great. Yeah, and we are team solstice. So this time, you know, it's happening right at the solstice, but I'm using the word soul, like S-O-U-L. Okay. Yeah, a little play on words. So in a very personal way, June 21st, which is the day of the hike, is the two-year anniversary of my mom's passing. She passed on the solstice. So it's really going to be a very special day for me.

[00:58:20] And so I wanted to use the word soul in my team name for solstice. Well, that's great. That's awesome. And then I'm sure that you'll add even more people to the team. But you'll be there at the party afterwards. And yeah, it's going to be a great day. And, you know, weather depending, if the weather's crappy or not realistic for us in Madison, like we'll redirect. Yeah, absolutely. No pressure, Nick, but if you're around. Yeah. Which team are you on, Nick? You can join Lynn's team.

[00:58:48] So I did have my own team last year, and we did Saddleback and the Horn in Maine. But then I crashed, like, another Alzheimer's hike with you guys, which was a blast. I crashed the gig. I crashed some other hike. Yeah. No, I crashed your hike. I crashed your hike. The celebrity, the White Mountain celebrity studded cast that it was with Dave and Eric and some other people. So, but yeah, I'm probably going to get a team going. I'm not really sure what we're going to do yet. But I think they're, I know they're really trying to get to like 100 teams this year.

[00:59:17] So I think I'm going to try to try to form a team and maybe I'll still crash another one. Who knows? Maybe I'll, maybe I'll join again. I'll join again. Yeah. If life gets in the way and you can't start a team, just join ours. All right. Yeah. Twist my arm to go up Mount Madison on my stay. Right. Yeah. It's nice. We'll see. Lynn, you did Gail had two days in a row last year too, right? You went out with like your team and then like Cindy's team or something. You know what? Yeah.

[00:59:46] I think you're, I almost forgot that myself. And yeah, I think you're right. Cause I did go also with Cindy. So, but in fairness, it was to make up last year, the year before I'd had a fractured ankle and I was supposed to do a jam. So I missed out on that one and have decided that I'm going to finish my 48 on a jam to get redemption from that year. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. And I did want to mention for Mike and Nobby's team. If, if any of you can figure out how to get rocks in Mike's backpack, maybe at Madison

[01:00:15] Springs hut, we'll throw you like a t-shirt or something. Like, like I think it's worthy. He's going to, he's going to be alert this year though. Like I'm sure he's going to be watching out for it. It's not going to be easy as it was last year. Nick, I am turning you into the trail maintainers police because you've told me multiple times that there's very stringent rules around rock situation up in that area. So there are some, make sure you find a rock that's, um, doesn't have anything growing on it. Yeah, exactly. So, uh, be careful above tree line.

[01:00:44] So if I catch anyone throwing rocks in my backpack again, it's not going to be good. Just make sure you leave the rocks out there so that you're not breaking leave no trace. Okay. True. Yep. Excellent. All right. So, uh, stickers, if you want to get your, um, sounds like a search and rescue podcast stickers, you can check that you can get stickers at ski fanatics or you can get them at spinners pizza in Andover Moss. So check that out.

[01:01:13] And then if you want to advertise with slasher, you can reach out to us at, um, slasher podcast at gmail.com, or you can reach out to us over the Instagram account. Uh, and then in addition to that, if you want to get swag, if you want to get some slasher gear, matter of fact, my niece and my net, my nieces and nephews were over. We haven't seen them since before Christmas. We had Christmas presents, but then we gave them slasher gear or, uh, hoodies for, uh, for Christmas. They were very excited, but you can go check out the box.

[01:01:43] Bonfire shop. Choose between hoodies, classic or V-neck t-shirts and more. So the color selection is great and the prices are set to move. So help spread the word about slasher and represent today. Um, also shout out if you want to donate coffee, you can check out, um, slasher's buy me a coffee site to support the website. We usually use the money for paying for whatever stuff. Stomp always has stuff he has to buy.

[01:02:12] So it's like here. Matter of fact, I have a new microphone tonight. So I was very excited, Nick. I told Stomp, I was like, Oh, I recorded the last episode of my new microphone. It must've sounded great. And he's like, Oh, I didn't even notice the difference. Stomp didn't notice your nice stage mic. What the hell? No, he didn't notice. I have a, I have a, he probably told you that one to buy that one too, right? Well, he told me this is a Shure 58. He had told me the Shure 57, but they're the same. Yeah. One's dynamic and one's condenser, but yeah.

[01:02:41] Well, I, I think you sound fantastic, Mike. Thank you. Thank you. Even with my Boston accent, I try. But if you want to donate coffee to pay for me the show's goodies, then that's great. If not, it's fine. Just listen for free. Um, this is the part of show where we talk about drinking beer. I know, um, I am just drinking water tonight and I know Lynn, you usually are just drinking water with like various stickers on it. So I know you got nothing.

[01:03:07] I know Nick, if you're, if you're drinking beer tonight, I've just got a seltzer that I finished like 30 minutes ago and I'm sad about. So yeah, I need to get some more in the fridge up here. Do you drink seltzers a lot, Nick? Yeah. I'm kind of, I used to drink like a decent amount of like, um, diet caffeine free or whatever soda and I'm trying to switch over to seltzer more. So, um, I'm rocking spin drift a lot these days and all the various flavors, whatever's cheapest on Amazon, I should say usually. So. All right. Well, good for you.

[01:03:36] So yeah, we're not a very beer drinking crew tonight, unfortunately, but, um. But I have a cool drink too, even though it's not alcohol, I still have a cool drink. Um, I have actually started making protein hot chocolate all the time. So. Oh, is that what that is? Yeah. I just make regular hot cocoa. I put some whey protein powder in it and then I top it off with like a vanilla protein shake just for like a little milk. And it's great. What is that? Let me see that giant bottle that you have there.

[01:04:05] This is Ragged Mountain Foundation in Connecticut. I got this. Oh, wow. Oh, that's cool. In an auction or a raffle, but yeah. That's really nice. Your sticker placement is flawless. I know. Look at that. Mine are like, I'm so chaotic with my stickers. Like, uh, I don't know. There's so many slasher stickers on it, Mike. I know, I know. It's like four. People got to know every angle. They got to know. Hey, did you know I have a podcast? So embarrassing. I never said that.

[01:04:36] I have my list. As a matter of fact, I have. Now who's the liar? I have, um, on my paper here, I have a reminder to not say, um, and then I also have a reminder to not say interesting. Interesting. No, interesting. Interesting. Interesting. There it is. Anyway. But, uh, but anyway, the reason I'm drinking water is because I am trying to get back into shape because I am taking, me and Mrs. Mike, it is our 25th wedding anniversary this year

[01:05:05] and Mrs. Mike also turned 50. So we booked a trip to Hawaii. So I've been watching, I've been binging YouTube hiking videos of Hawaii for the last two weeks. Excellent. And everybody seems to be like very ripped and in shape. So I'm like, I have to get ripped and back in shape to go to Hawaii. So what's the top hike you're going to do? Like what's, what's the big one? Have either of you been to Hawaii? No.

[01:05:32] So right now, I think the big one in Oahu is the Mount Olympus. So that is, as far as I can tell, and Caroline's been on all these hikes, so she's advising me. So I had my local advisor because she lived out there for a while, but, um, Mount Olympus is, they have this like track of mountain ranges that are in kind of the middle Eastern part of Oahu, which is the, where Honolulu is, Waikiki.

[01:06:02] And, um, they're not super long, like maybe five, six mile hikes. And then, I don't know, 16, 1800 feet of elevation gain, but you get up above and you can see 360 views of the, the island. So I'm excited. The trails look really narrow though. Like so narrow on top that like, I don't know how people pass each other. It's, I think that you have to kind of dive into the woods a little bit to pass each other. Caroline said that it was never crowded when she was out there.

[01:06:31] So we'll see. Is it like a cliff on basically one side? So that's what makes it tough or like the trails are just that narrow that you have to go into the woods or something? It's like thick, the, based on the videos I've seen, it's very thick brush and they have a trail that's cut through it. But the trail is only like maybe wide enough for one person to walk through. And on either side, it's just a steep drop down. Cause they're kind of knife edge. Okay.

[01:06:55] Um, and the very like muddy and then, and, uh, the trails are worn down pretty well. So I have a lot of ropes like on the climbing parts to pull on. So I'm excited, but yeah, we'll do that. And then there's a bunch of smaller hikes that Mrs. Mike will do with me. There's a, there's a crater called diamond head. There is, um, another crater that has a thousand stairs that you have to climb up, which I think looks pretty fun.

[01:07:20] And then we're going to go over the big Island and stay in Kona and do some hiking in like Mono layer or whatever that is. And the big volcanoes. There must be some like amazing waterfalls and stuff too, to check out. Yeah, I think so. I'll have to, I'm putting the other list. So I'm doing a lot of research, but that's what I figured I had something to talk about here because I didn't do any hiking last two weeks. But, um, Lynn, you, I wanted to like find out from you, I never downloaded your hike.

[01:07:47] So you did, I had hit you up to actually co-host with me a couple of weeks ago, but you were like, sorry, Mike, I can't cause I'm going hiking. But you did a, was it a blood moon? Is that what you did? Um, it was the, no, it was the, um, lunar eclipse. Well, actually I guess it was the blood moon, maybe, um, lunar eclipse of the blood moon. Yes. Yes. Yeah. But you ended up doing a winter overnight at Gio, right? Yeah. We actually did two overnights. So it was three of us.

[01:08:14] It was myself, Nick Higgins, who, you know, um, and our friend Foghat, also known as David Kinneberg. Um, he's him. He's got over 5,000 miles along the AT. Um, so he's a very, you know, both of them very experienced hikers. And so we, we started in, uh, Lincoln Woods a little bit later in the day. We, we all had scheduling. And so we actually didn't really start until almost dark and we camped along Lincoln Woods, um, in the snow.

[01:08:42] I think it was like around mile 4.8, um, you know, off trail a bit. But, and that wasn't too bad, actually. That was, that was perfectly fine. And we got going early in the morning, got up to, uh, Gio shelter and, you know, just kind of enjoyed our time there. Um, we did, let's see. Well, coming from there. So we would have, yeah, we up and over Bond, Bond Cliff, and then we got to Gio. And then on the way back, I think is when we hit West Bond and then, um, came all the way down.

[01:09:12] And our friend Foghat finished his, he finished his 48 as a surprise. While we were up there, we didn't know he was finishing and he told us he had a surprise. Yeah. Yeah. And West Bond. And, um, so that was pretty cool. Yeah. Getting to celebrate that with him. And, uh, they were both very, very dear friends with Chris Roma. So, um, you know, part of that mission was, we were hoping to go out to the spot on the balls on the way up to Gio, uh, where Chris passed, but, um, it was, it was bitterly cold and windy.

[01:09:40] I mean, we, we had such a hard time getting up to Gio. You know how steep it gets going up there. Um, and thank God for Nick because God, he's got dozens and dozens of, I think he said something like 80 plus times around that area. Um, so he knew really well how to break trail into Gio and especially how to break trail from Gio to the privy for Gio, because it's really hard to find that thing unless you know where

[01:10:06] you're going, if you're, you know, if it's dark and there's, um, uh, unpacked snow. So. Yeah. Matter of fact, I think it was last, last episode we, I talked about how, yeah, cause it was a rescue and just how no man's land that place is. I mean, Nick, I had to turn around. I was cramping up and I was like, I do not want to risk going down into West bond in that area. If I'm cramping up with these guys have a mission to finish Nick's 4,000 foot.

[01:10:32] So I turned around, but Nick, you guys got absolutely like killed with, um, spruce traps and everything. And then you didn't go past West bond, but it sounds like. No. And I mean, nobody at that. I mean, again, this is like March 1st, but nobody had, you could tell the trail, nobody had been out past where that junction was to West bond to Gio at that point. Um, yeah, I was going to joke saying, I went, did you guys see a giant hole out there to West bond? Cause that was probably where I fell on the spruce trap up to my head, but yeah, it was, it was, it was nuts out there.

[01:10:59] But, uh, yeah, it's, that's awesome that you guys get out there that time of year though, to camp over at Gio. I saw some of your pictures too, with the blood moon eclipse. It looked amazing. Yeah, it was, it was a tough, tough hike for sure. Um, and the, but the blood moon lunar eclipse was so cool cause you could see it right from Gio, you know, you get there and you have the whole sweeping views and you kind of have the moon coming up, um, kind of right in front of you. And then it, it, as it goes, it goes over towards the right. So you kind of have to go under that little, there's like a little roof on the porch.

[01:11:29] You have to go under it and then you could see the moon up over there. So it was really special. So what was Gio like in the winter? Uh, were you the only group there or was there other people there too? Yeah, we were the only people there and that's my second, um, winter overnight at Gio. The last one was even harsher conditions, but it's, it's actually really nice because they have a very large piece of plywood that you can slide and it can go right over the opening into the shelter. So yeah, you can stop the wind from coming in completely.

[01:11:59] Um, if it's too bad, it'll take it and it'll kind of move it and shake it and push it up against the shelter and keep you awake all night with the wind. But, um, at least the wind isn't coming in at you. So I really, really love that shelter, that area. It's just so peaceful and, um, the views are incredible. Yeah. And if you've never been there for the listeners, so the Gio is a campsite. It has a bunch of tent platforms and things like that, but it also has what Lynn's talking about is this, I would even, I don't know if I, it's a shelter for sure, but it's, it's

[01:12:29] two levels. It's huge. And it's, it's got a, like an upstairs part and then the loft and then, um, the, the low pretty fit. Like it can easily fit 20 people in there. Right. Oh God. Yeah. And in a situation where you needed to, you could fit more than that. I mean, there's, there's quite a lot. If you're in a comfort situation, you could probably fit like six up top six. And then another six. So probably like 18 in a comfort situation. Yeah. Yeah. And it just gets you out of the wind and, um, you know, and what's the deal with the,

[01:12:58] what was there a water source there? There is a water source. Um, it's a spring just down the way and there's a little, um, uh, I forget what you actually call it. I'm losing my words, but, um, a little tube basically that comes out and you can collect right from there, but generally in the winter that is frozen. So, um, Nick actually took something and tried to kind of jam out the ice thinking maybe it was just iced up at the end there. Um, and it wasn't, there was no way we, I think he got in like a foot and a half and still couldn't clear what was there.

[01:13:28] So there was, it was not running. So you do have to be a little bit careful about either gathering or, um, melting snow. And that's what we did. We just melted snow. Awesome. And did you feel like your, um, your winter gear and your winter. So I haven't done winter overnight in a couple of years now, uh, but as far as like setting up a tent on Lincoln woods and then, um, all your gear we did, it was a pretty well dialed in for the cold weather. Yeah. Super dialed. We, um, we had our tents are, um, four season tents.

[01:13:56] Actually, Nick and I had like a three season, but it was fine. We had the rain cover over and, you know, we both use like a six, seven, eight R value plus a closed cell foam, um, mattress. So we're using, you know, that R value together is maybe eight or nine. Who knows? I mean, it's, it's really up for debate on that, but it's keeping us pretty warm.

[01:14:19] And I had a zero degree mountain hardware and he had a, I think a minus 10, um, maybe also mountain hardware. So yeah, we, we definitely don't skimp when it comes to being warm out there. You know, I had my, um, expedition parka. He had his, we have a couple, you know, extra layers, extra socks, um, goggles for sure. Um, one thing he learned from Chris Roma, you know, not being able to really see in those

[01:14:47] conditions was goggles can really help you and your performance out there if you're in trouble. Right, right. Yeah. For the listeners, if you're not familiar, so Chris Roma had unfortunately lost his life in that particular area. Like I think it was two, two winters ago. No, just last year. Last winter. Just last winter. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Unfortunately he just got, um, you know, uh, difficult weather situation and, um, you know, so Nick is good friends with him. So, um, you've talked about the story a couple of times on the podcast. So, um, so it's good.

[01:15:16] And then as far as getting out to Westpond, did you experience any of the challenges that Nick and his crew experienced when they were heading out there? Um, it wasn't so bad. I mean, we had Foghead ahead of us. Um, he wanted to kind of summit alone and then we met him just shortly after. So we had his tracks to follow. Um, it really wasn't that bad. Once you get to the junction when you're coming back and you take the right to go to, um, West Bond. And to my recognition, I actually just pulled up my trail report on New England trail conditions.

[01:15:45] And basically the hardest part of the whole hike was we had to constantly change traction. So the whole way up, the way down was a little bit better, but the entire way up, it was spikes to snowshoes to spikes to snowshoes. And then you get up to elevation, you're exposed. The rock is bare. So now you're bare booting because you don't want to wreck your spikes and your snowshoes. So, um, I think we added it up.

[01:16:11] I think we took a couple extra hours on the way up just because we had to change traction so often to make sure we were keeping our gear safe and us as well. Yeah. Yeah. It's that time of the year. So yeah. Well, that's a grand adventure. Very impressive. That's awesome. I mean, Nick will attest. They do in the out and back from Lincoln Woods and even with an overnight, even. It's tough because you're carrying a lot of weight. It is a lot in winter, especially the steeps going between there.

[01:16:41] We're going to sort of do it again. We're going to go out to Carter Notch Hut via the Wildcats pretty soon. So next time I see you, I'll have that to talk about. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Excellent. All right. And then Nick, I joined you for a hike on the Belknaps on the, I guess, the northern part of like Piper Belknap area. But you got back out there with Peter and did the lower section, Mount Major and straight back in that area. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:17:08] I kind of sent out a text to the masses to see what was up, if anybody was trying to get out. I'd been fighting a flu. Evidently was a flu from my daughter's daycare for the last couple of weeks, which came on. It was very nice. Right as we're in the middle of that hike of the northern Belknaps, I was like, I started to feel really crappy about, I think we were going up like gun stock. I'm like, I think I might have a fever and then it was like three hours later. I'm like, oh yeah, it's full blown. It's on. So I'm glad it seems like it didn't spread to anybody. But yeah, we got up and then reached out.

[01:17:35] I was thinking of maybe doing, I'm kind of loosely working on my seasonals after kind of finishing winter. I still got a lot of work left in spring, fall. So I pitched out Cannon and then Peter was like, how nice the weather looks? I was thinking maybe the southern Belknaps and kind of trying to hit those. So I kind of had plotted out a route as well and also kind of was thinking of that. So we settled on that instead with how nice it looked like this past Friday. I don't know if it was like, it was in the 50s or 60s. It was just a gorgeous day.

[01:18:02] And yeah, we made a loop out sort of starting at major and did. So let's see. So it was funny at first, we were just sort of really having some good conversation. We actually wanted to head towards straight back and then sort of west out to like Clem and sort of all those ones. But we actually sort of ended up reversing direction. Or I should say we wanted to go up north straight back. We ended up going out straight back instead of the junction. But that was all cool. We just sort of did the reverse loop. But yeah, it was cool checking out.

[01:18:28] I think like you hit Anna and then Mack, Clem, Rand, West Quarry, East Quarry, and then sort of loop back over north straight back. And then we finished with major. And major had spectacular views. I'm kind of glad it worked out that way. But a lot of fun, a lot of up and down. We actually hit more snow and ice, I'd say, really than we hit the two weeks previous just because I think they had a few snowstorms blowing between. Nothing monorail left, but it was a great day getting out with Peter as well. Yeah.

[01:18:55] And I remember when I hiked around the similar time of the year and that section by West Quarry or whatever it is, that had snow just down in the dips. It just seemed like it didn't get a lot of sun hitting it. So there was just a little bit more snow in that particular area. So it may not even be new snow. It might have just been it didn't melt as much as on the exposed side. Yeah, for sure. It's kind of cool how there's almost two ridgelines adjacent to each other, kind of in that southern to eastern knob. So there's like basically this valley kind of in between.

[01:19:25] And like you were saying, yeah, I think between the quarries and then I think between like Mack and Clem, we hit like a good amount of ice. And it's just you can tell the sun just doesn't really get down there into the valley floor. Yeah. Yeah. And is it so did you finish the Belknap list with that hike? No. So we have row left, which is just that one north of Gunstock. So we knocked out like 11 out of 12. So we actually debated doing row if we finished early enough. But I think it was like 334. So we were pretty much kind of calling it by that point. But I think it's to do row by itself is like 0.7 and like 5, 600 or something.

[01:19:55] Yeah, it's 20 minutes. Yeah, it's a pretty easy hike. So we'll get back out there at some point and finish it off. And you basically just go past the Gunstock parking lot where we ate at the restaurant and just you backtrack. And then there's like a road that's a little bit further down that just has like a bunch of parking spots and you can head up to row. But I have one left too. So maybe we can partner together. Yeah. Have you got Rand left? I got Rand. Yeah. Yeah, you got Rand left. Okay. Yeah.

[01:20:25] Yeah, it was cool. And I mean, we did bang out a fresh So You Wanna after that. So we'll have like a good in-depth, I guess, analyzation, whatever you want to call it, sort of on that whole little loop and sort of a little bit more about the parking areas and history on the Bell Naps and whatnot. I'm sure that'll be out eventually to check out. Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. So for the listeners, we are, we're going hard on the So You Wanna. So essentially just these quick hit summaries of hikes. And we have like, I think at this point we've got three or four episodes.

[01:20:54] I did an episode on the Wildcats with my nephew JT when he was here. I was working out the new studio and then I think Stomp's got a couple in the can. So we'll be releasing those pretty soon. I just want to, I want to build up like five or six of them and just, just start releasing them. So eventually we're going to have a library of, it'll be like the podcast version of the White Mountain Guide. I like it. That's great. I love that idea. It's also just a lot of fun. Yeah. Quick hits. If somebody's going to do a hike and they just want like a 20 minute, 30 minute summary of

[01:21:24] a deep dive on a, on a, on a climb, then they can get it there. So, uh, but anyway, I want to move on to a history segment. You guys want to do a little history? Definitely. Absolutely. Okay. Let's dive into some White Mountains history, shall we? So have either one of you heard about the Bemis crew?

[01:21:51] Other than Bemis Brook? No.

[01:22:21] Bemis Brook. Chapter 47. They talk about the Bemis crew. And essentially what was going on back then, it was like the early, it was the late 1910s. It was like 1915, 1918, things like that. But around that time period, the AMC had monthly meetings. And as part of those monthly meetings, they would plan winter snowshoe trips on a, I think it was a monthly basis.

[01:22:50] So they would come up from Boston and then they would decide they were going to hike a certain area. They would stay in one particular area where they might stay in Jackson one day, one trip. They might stay in Crawford Notch one trip. They may go over to like Franconia, whatever they had. And they all came up from trains from Boston from like the late 1800s up until the 1900s. But as things happen, and you probably see this, Lynn, this is very similar to what I would

[01:23:19] guess happens with the hiking buddies is that people sign up to do these trips and then they make friends through the trips and then they start thinking like, well, you know, the AMC trips are not as challenging or as interesting because they want to essentially try to stay close to where they're going to be staying in their hotel. So there was a group of people that were a little bit more ambitious.

[01:23:43] And by that point, like super hiking and like a more aggressive hiking was starting to become popular. So there was two hikers, a gentleman by the name of William Helburn and another guy named Henry Chamberlain and their wives, they became friends. There were two couples. It was in the winter of 1918. And there had been a challenge where people were talking about they wanted to be able to

[01:24:13] hike the entirety of the presidential range in a winter season, which had I think been attempted but hadn't really been completed. So on February 22nd, 1918, William Helburn and Henry Chamberlain traveled up to Gorham, I believe. And they set out their wives were with them and they set out to do the entire presidential traverse and they made it through.

[01:24:41] The timing on it was a little bit challenging for them because they basically hiked into a huge snowstorm. So they were hit with blizzard conditions and really challenging conditions, but they were both pretty young men, very strong hikers. And they were well prepared and they did make it through. They, like I said, they didn't get many views that day. They got hit with blizzard conditions coming across the Great Gulf, but they moved very quickly.

[01:25:07] And by the time they hit Lakes of the Clouds, they knew, you know, we're going to be able to do this pretty successfully. So they made their way down the Crawford path and were, you know, they finished up that night. They were hoping to actually make it in time so that they could get the train to Boston that night, which would have been crazy, but they missed the train. So they ended up having their evening dinner and they stayed overnight at down there at Crawford

[01:25:33] Notch, which is now, you know, what the Highland Center is now, but essentially that's where they ended up staying. But through that, they became good friends. As the word got out and all the people that I suspect this Bemis crew back in like the 1910s, they heard about these guys doing these crazy expeditions and a little crew was formed. And the reason why they were called the Bemis crew is that they made their winter stay.

[01:26:00] They started staying at this place, which is called the Inn Unique, which used to be owned by the guy, he's a doctor, Bemis, used to be where he would stay when he visited. So they called it Bemis' place. And then eventually it was named Inn Unique, but it was essentially like a hostel or a hotel area that they could stay at. And it's now known as the Notchland Inn. So you can actually stay at the Notchland Inn.

[01:26:29] And that's where they made their sort of their home base for hiking. And essentially this Bemis crew, they called themselves the Bemis crew in honor of where they stayed. It grew to about 25, 30 people. And they started basically doing the more extreme hikes. So they would adventure into the Great Gulf. Some of them were into skiing. They would climb six husbands in the winter. They did a winter expedition to Katahdin.

[01:26:58] And it wasn't just these two guys. It was a lot of husbands and wives. So there was a group of, I think, eight or 10 women that were right along with the men doing all the hiking and all these expeditions as well. They would climb Huntington. They were early ice climbers. They climbed into Huntington and Tuckerman and did all kinds of stuff. So essentially AMC group did more, I guess, safer snowshoeing expeditions.

[01:27:22] And then the Bemis crew became known as the group that would do the more challenging things. So as part of that group, there was a young couple named Miriam and Robert Underhill. And Miriam and Robert became friends with the Hellburns and the Chamberlains. And they were right in there doing all these extreme hikes. But Miriam had actually, prior to getting involved with the Bemis crew, she was born in 1899.

[01:27:49] She had actually started climbing in the mountains at an early age. So when she was 15 years old, she traveled to Europe with her mother and seven-year-old brother. And when she was in Charminé, she had walked 5,000 feet up to Le Brevent, I think is what it's called. And then ultimately, she started climbing a lot of the most iconic peaks in the Alps. As a matter of fact, she did the Matterhorn, I think, like three times.

[01:28:19] So she had broken a lot of boundaries. And then her own base was New Hampshire. So she would train in the White Mountains and then go off into Europe to do all of these crazy hikes. But one of the things that she's known for is she was one of the charter members of the 4,000-footer club. So Miriam and her husband were, I think, the second people to actually complete the winter 4,000-footer.

[01:28:46] So the Bemis crew, yeah, so this Bemis crew, they were into these extreme activities or making sure that they go in the winter into these areas where a lot of people don't travel. And they were associated with this gentleman by the name of Nathaniel Goodrich, who was a librarian at Dartmouth College. And he was renowned as one of the AMC trailmen.

[01:29:12] And so he was involved with, like, I think the guy's name was Paul Blood. There was a group of trail masters that we had talked about in the past that had connected the various trail systems in the White Mountains in the 1920s and 1930s. So Nathaniel Goodrich was the first to propose in 1931 Appalachia. He had proposed a list of 36 4,000-footers.

[01:29:37] So originally the 4,000-footer list was 36 mountains, and they used a criteria of a 300-foot prominence. So Goodrich has basically said that the 300-foot benchmark was arbitrary, but that's essentially what they established as the list. So by 1934, there was an AMC member by the name of Francis Parsons, and the nickname was Mully.

[01:30:05] I feel like everybody in the 1920s had, like, a cool nickname, like Mully. It does seem like that. Schmitty, right? But he became the first person to complete Goodrich's original list of 36 peaks. And he even got out to Hancock and Owl's Head, which was quite inaccessible.

[01:30:24] And they tell the story about having to, I guess, really, like, essentially, like, throw away their clothes afterwards because they were so ripped up after going out to Owl's Head. So there was scarcely enough left of his shirt to flag a wheelbarrow, is what he said. But he had reached the top of Owl's Head. Wow. So, yeah. So it's pretty interesting. And over time, the...

[01:30:55] Sorry, I've got to mute my daughter's messaging me here. So over time, the list essentially got a little bit bigger. So after analyzing... So for a long time, it was 36. By 1955, there had been a group that got together and had decided that they were going to use the 200 feet of prominence with a connected ridge to establish the 4,000-footer list.

[01:31:24] So that ended up with a list of 46 peaks. This was approved by the AMC Council. And the game of 4,000-footers was then established after that once it was approved. Again, it was 46 peaks at the time. By May 26th of 1957, Robert Gould became the first person to finish the new list of peaks. And then the next to finish was on September 14th. This is Miriam Underhill and her husband, Robert.

[01:31:53] They were essentially the two most prominent Northeast Mountaineers at that time because at that point, Miriam had gone off. She had been climbing all over the place in the Alps, the Dolomites, doing all kinds of crazy hikes. And she was also the editor of Appalachia Journal at that time. So she was quite a famous hiker at the time. She was basically like, pick the most famous hiker right now, famous influencer, and she was like that.

[01:32:21] So very interesting background. But Robert and Miriam were not satisfied with just doing the 4,000-footer list. They decided that they were going to complete all the winter 4,000-footers. They had looked through the list and said, well, we've done a bunch of these already. So they had gone forward and ended up completing the rest of the winter hike.

[01:32:43] And in the show notes, I will actually link the story of Miriam and what she writes about describing some of the winter 4,000-footers that she did. And it's fascinating to read this story. Essentially, she wouldn't write her own stories in Appalachia until after she left the role. So she wrote this in 1967 off of recollection.

[01:33:12] So she talks about hiking Osceola. So they got in that one early in December of 1959, right before the—and they made the decision early on that the rules for the winter list was going to be the solstice. It wasn't going to be winter conditions. It was going to be based on the actual beginning of winter and end of winter. She talked about they got on Osceola because there was no snow on the ground and they could get to Tripoli Road.

[01:33:40] So they did that one in early winter and then they ended up getting messed up because of the fact that, like, there was way too much snow up between the chimney. To get back over the coal and up East Osceola was very difficult for them. So she was like, there was a super hard hike and they weren't expecting it.

[01:34:00] But then she talked about isolation and how her and Robert went with another friend of theirs and they did an overnight. They stayed at one of the Rocky Branch shelters. They knew they had to bushwhack up to go up the ISO Express. But by the time they woke up in the morning, there was a huge blizzard going on. So Robert and Miriam were like, all right, we're not going to—we'll come back another day.

[01:34:27] The friend got up and was like, I'm not turning around. So they were like, we're going to move forward and stop breaking the show. So Miriam and Robert were like, all right, I guess we're going to the summit. So they again hike in a blizzard and eventually they catch up with a friend and they go together. And they basically made it to the summer for about five minutes and had to turn around. It's very similar, Nick, to our winter hike on isolation, except we had views. They didn't have any views. That's funny.

[01:34:57] Interesting background here. So she talks about Zealand staying at the hut. She talks about visiting Gillhead. And then she finished in—they finished the winter 4,000 footers on Mount Jefferson. And she jokes in this writing around the fact that she's like, you would think that I would have done a winter summit of Jefferson way before this time, but I actually hadn't ever done it.

[01:35:19] So they completed it in, I guess, March of 1960 is when they completed the list. But yeah, it's a great article by her and it is fascinating to read. So I'll link this in the show notes. You have to like have an account on our internet archive to access this, but it's easy to sign up for one and you can just borrow the book and read it. But yeah, that's the story of Miriam Underhill.

[01:35:45] So she was well before her time climbing in skirts, doing all kinds of crazy stuff in the Alps and the Dolomites. And then she'd come back to New Hampshire. She was the famous hiker. And then she was the first—one of the first ones to do the winter 4,000 footers. Wow. That's really incredible. And I learned a new vocabulary word looking at this website, which is cool. What is it? The word is—I'll use it in the sentence. It says, winter is colder. You can take only the briefest of rests.

[01:36:14] No more of those sybaritic siestas. Oh, wow. So I had to look it up because I really like vocabulary and I didn't know this word. And do you guys know what it means, sybaritic? No. I'm assuming it just means like relaxing or lazy or— Oh, it's way cooler than that. Okay. Sybaritic as defined is fond of sensuous luxury or pleasure. Oh. Self-indulgent.

[01:36:44] It's like a luxurious, selfish nap. Yeah. That's cool. Their sentence is their opulent and sybaritic lifestyle. I love that word. I feel like the language, just even back to the early 1800s, I feel like was a lot more sophisticated than nowadays. It seems like it anyways. I don't know if it actually is or it's just because of the way words work, but— Yeah. Yeah.

[01:37:05] Well, in the Watermans in their book, they talk about how the Bemis crew, they referred to all their winter escapades as the crews of the good ship Bemis. So, when they were hiking, they would say they were on the ship Bemis, and they would call their objectives ports of call. So, if they were on the good ship Bemis and we're on our way to Port Jefferson to hike. So, that was the type of language that they would have.

[01:37:34] And then, when they—they were actually the first crew to establish the process of breaking trail where you would hand off—you would go with like five or six people, and they were very dedicated to—one of these guys, I think it was Helburn or the other one, the other guy that I forget his name now. But they were very into like snowshoes are the way to go, and they would set up a process where they would all go in a line.

[01:38:02] And then, when the first person in the line had gone far enough, somebody would yell out, breakers ahead, breakers ahead. They had this like ocean theme, and that meant that that person should step aside and let the next person lead to break trail. I love that. So, they had the good ship Bemis. They called their trips ports of call, and then they would yell out, breakers ahead, in order to tell somebody to step aside to let somebody else break trail. Ed, while you were talking about this, Mike, a couple things came to mind.

[01:38:31] But what I was going to say, I think it's really cool is the fact that despite equipment being way better than it was back then as far as wool shirts, and you think of like the old snowshoes and stuff. But fundamentally, like when you're out there in the whites on a bad weather day or even in a winter season or wherever, you're experiencing the same conditions that more or less people experienced over 100 years ago. Or I guess almost 200 technically when people were just starting to really hike up in the winter. So, I think it's kind of cool that nature is still sort of like the great equalizer out there.

[01:38:59] It doesn't matter if you get a Gore-Tex shell or you got metal and plastic snowshoes. Like if you're out there in crappy weather in a blizzard or whatever and you're breaking trail, you're still driving up. We still use the same techniques climbing mountains today that people were basically using back then. Yeah. And they figured out like, you know, you can only be the front of the line breaking trail for so long. Like we need a team. We got to rotate. In some ways, they would do an even crazier stuff though. They talked about going up six husbands in the winter. Yeah, I saw Huntington and six husbands in the winter.

[01:39:29] I haven't done that in the summer yet, but from what I've seen of it, yeah, I'm good. I'm good with that. Going down the great gulf. So, yeah, it's amazing. The history and I like doing these history segments and sometimes I don't do them as frequently as I probably should, but they're very interesting. So, you have the Bemis crew, Miriam Underhill. There's a lot there if you dig into it. So, definitely check out chapter 47 of Forest and Crag.

[01:39:54] And then I'll include all the links to the areas that I got information on. There's a page on the AMC website that talks about the history of the 4,000 footer list and there's biographies of Miriam Underhill. And you can even go and book a stay at the Notchland Inn and experience where they stayed when they came here. Super cool. Yes. That's awesome. But that's all I have. So, Lynn, Nick, you guys made it through. I appreciate you joining me.

[01:40:23] Is there anything that you wanted to plug or anything else that I missed that you wanted to cover before we said goodnight? Hmm. I don't think so. I think we got everything. Hiking Buddies. We got Alzheimer's. Well, I can plug the program that's going on down in Connecticut that I help run, which is Veterans Climbing Events. So, every month we're running free climbing for veterans at Central Rock Glastonbury in Connecticut.

[01:40:53] Or throughout the summer, we're going to try for some outdoor climbs as well through the AMC. So, if you're a veteran or a family caregiver of a veteran and you want to learn how to climb or, you know, get better at climbing, we'll take care of all the costs, all the gear, everything you need. All you have to do is show up and be ready. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, if you want to just throw the link into the script, I'll make sure that gets on the show notes too. I will. Thank you. All right, Lynn, Nick, thank you so much. This was great.

[01:41:22] And until next time. Bye. See you on the radio. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed the show, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podbean, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[01:41:47] If you want to learn more about the topics covered in today's show, please check out the show notes and safety information at slasherpodcast.com. That's S-L-A-S-R podcast.com. You can also follow the show on Facebook and Instagram. We hope you'll join us next week for another great show. Until then, on behalf of Mike and Stomp, get out there and crush some mega peaks.

[01:42:17] Now covered in scratches, blisters, and bug bites, Chris Staff wanted to complete his most challenging day hike ever. Fish and game officers say the hiker from Florida activated an emergency beacon yesterday morning. He was hiking along the Appalachian Trail when the weather started to get worse. Officials say the snow was piled up to three feet in some spots and there was a wind chill of minus one degree. And there's three words to describe this race. Do we all know who they are?

[01:42:49] Lieutenant James Neeland, New Hampshire Fish and Game. Lieutenant, thanks for being with us today. Thanks for having me. What are some of the most common mistakes you see people make when they're heading out on the trails to hike here in New Hampshire? Seems to me the most common is being unprepared. I think if they just simply visited hikesafe.com and got a list of the ten essential items and had those in their packs, they probably would have no need to ever call us at all.