Episode 192 - Andy from the Cog Cohosts, A Stomp update, Winter Hiking on Mount Katahdin

[00:00:08] Here is the latest Higher Summits forecast brought to you by our friends at the Mount Washington Observatory. Weather above treeline in the White Mountains is often wildly different than at our trailheads. Before you hike, check the Higher Summits forecast at mountwashington.org. Weather observers working at the non-profit Mount Washington Observatory

[00:00:36] Write this elevation-based forecast every morning and afternoon. Search and Rescue teams, avalanche experts, and backcountry guides all rely on the Higher Summits forecast to anticipate weather conditions above treeline. You should too. Go to mountwashington.org or text FORECAST to 603-356-2137

[00:01:11] Hey, it's Stomp here, blowing the dust off my microphone to give you the forecast for the weekend of April 19th, 2025. Friday, in the clear under mostly sunny skies, becoming increasingly cloudy late. Slight chance of rain showers by the late afternoon. High rising to the mid-30s.

[00:01:34] Winds will be west, shifting southwest at 30-50 mph early, 25-40 mph midday, and 40-55 mph with gusts up to 70 mph later. The wind chill will be rising to 10-20 mph. Friday night, starting in the clear under mostly cloudy skies, then trending into the clouds with rain likely. Slight chance of thunderstorms. Yikes. Alright. So low rising to the lower 40s.

[00:02:04] Winds will be southwest, shifting west at 40-55 mph, increasing to 50-70 mph with gusts up to 85 mph. And the wind chill will be rising to 20-30 mph. And then finally, Saturday, in the clouds with rain likely, trending to mostly in the clouds under mostly cloudy skies with a chance of rain. High will be in the mid-40s.

[00:02:32] Winds will be west at 50-70 mph with gusts up to 90 mph. And the wind chill will be 20-30 mph above. Have a great weekend, everybody.

[00:03:19] The studio in the great state of New Hampshire. Welcome to the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast, where we discuss all things related to hiking and search and rescue in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. Here are your hosts, Mike and Stump.

[00:03:35] Alright, Andy. Here we go. You're getting a promotion. You're your co-host now. Yeah, the step up. It is. It is. This is your big moment.

[00:04:04] So, welcome to episode 192 of the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast. This week, I'm joined by co-host Andy Valene, who, when he's not co-hosting here or he's out hiking, he is the train master at the COG Railway. So, Andy will be giving us a detailed trip report of his recent solo hike to Mount Katahdin. Plus, we're going to break down everything you need to know about hiking in Baxter State Park. We'll do a little winter. We'll do a little summer stuff. We're going to do a longer update on Stomp.

[00:04:33] Everyone's been asking Andy about Stomp. They want more details. So, I've got it for the listeners. And then, also, we're going to talk about when Ice Out will come on Lake Winnipesaukee. We've got an update on a hiking-based film that's coming to Lincoln this summer. And they're putting out calls for actors. So, I'll give the info on that. And then, we've got a recent rescue on one of Stomp's favorite mountains, Mount Cardigan. We've got news about weather apps.

[00:05:01] We've got rumblings of a serial killer in New England. We'll do notable hikes and then some national search and rescue stories. So, I'm Mike. I'm Andy. Let's get started. Let's get started. All right. You didn't screw that up too bad. I actually messed that up a little bit. So, awesome. So, all right.

[00:05:30] Let's go into our friend Christina's Wild Raven Endurance Coaching and welcome her. And then, we'll come back out on the other side. So, all right. I'm Christina from Wild Raven Endurance Coaching. I work with athletes of all levels from hikers to triathletes, helping you reach your goals with personalized guidance. With years of experience hiking, mountain biking, and trail running across New England,

[00:05:55] I also have a deep knowledge of the New Hampshire 4,000 footers and the surrounding trails. Whether you're a beginner hiker or a seasoned athlete, I'll guide you towards your goals, reducing injury risk and improving your performance through smart, tailored coaching. Are you looking to transition from hiking to mountain running? I'm here to make that journey easier too. My approach combines strength training, mindfulness, and life balance on and off the trail.

[00:06:23] Let me help you find more joy in your sport while getting stronger and healthier along the way. Visit www.coaching.christinafulsik.com and start your adventure today. All right. So, thank you, Christina. Reach out to her if you want to get in shape. So, and then, Andy, do you ever just get inspired to get in shape?

[00:06:51] Maybe you just like decide to run up the cog every once in a while. Do you ever do that or is that just not novel to you? I actually deplore, like the conditions next to our tracks for running, I actually despise. When we do race the cog, I am just blown away by the fact that people are running that, you know, rough trackside trail. Yeah.

[00:07:15] And I go through spurts of when I want to trail run and when I just want to plot along at my slow pace. And usually, I like to speed my downs pretty good. So, when I'm coming down from something and I'm getting towards the end of my day, I like to really pick it up. But I used to be known as a really slow hiker and now I've started paying attention to my time. So, I've been known to trail run for my large 240 pound frame. So, I'm getting out there and I'm picking up my feet a little more.

[00:07:45] All right. That's good. Yeah. And I think I've really only hiked down the cog in the winter. I've got, I mean, I've gotten views of it. It's not that bad actually when you connect from the gulf side to that section there. But yeah, looking down, it does look a little bit like it's, it's not completely flat. It drops off a little bit and it's probably, you know, not perfect for running. So, yeah, I'm not the most graceful of the bunch when running over loose scree or certain other things.

[00:08:13] So, I definitely, I've yet to run. I've done a lot of track work and I've never actually used the cog as a hiking link of any kind. Okay. In spite of me giving a lot of people advice about it, I've just always, you know, either stayed on ammo or stayed on jewel. If I've been on that west side, but it's, it's a good option. And, you know, I'm, we're looking forward to another year of watching people try to beat the train. Right, right. Yeah. It'll be fun race for sure.

[00:08:42] Now, how was the cog winter season? Like, I know that you guys get a lot of visitors. I don't know how busy it is during the week, but like the weekends when I've been over there, like there's a big crowd at the, the middle part there where you've got the, the fires pits going and then you get a lot of skiers that head up to like Jacob's ladder and then come down. Has it been a good season for the winter? It has. Yeah. We've really expanded the offerings at our Wambach station there. So when the train goes up, it's roughly 4,000 feet elevation.

[00:09:10] We've built kind of a back country little spot to host folks. There's three level viewing platforms and some warming huts. We just recently connected electricity to the huts, which is only really for heat purposes because we were getting a little bit turned off by the idea of running propane heaters inside the buildings. And it's a great spot to really take in the rugged winter scape of Mount Washington and folks can enjoy the fire pit.

[00:09:35] We've definitely seen increased ridership on weekends, holidays, vacation weeks. Midweek can be a little slow, but sometimes that's the best time to come because then it's you and, you know, a handful of people around that fire pit, roasted marshmallows. You can cook a hot dog and, and enjoy the views off to the west and you can see up to the lakes hot. And it's really striking from that, from that vantage point right there. Yeah. It's a, it's a cool view.

[00:09:58] I like, I like hiking down there and you know, you can, it's nice cause you can spot the base station and you know where you're going and you can get, you can sense how quickly you're moving. And then when are you opening up for the summer? When do you guys expect that you're going to want to be able to do, is it just, it's Memorial Day, right? When the summit opens? Right. So the Sherman Adams state park building will open Memorial Day weekend. We have our pre-season summit runs, which are actually coming right up. We're going to start a weather dependent, but it's looking agreeable right now, May 3rd.

[00:10:29] And what we're going to do from May 3rd until Memorial Day is a basically an adjusted schedule where we stay a half hour at the summit. The train lays over with the passengers and they can explore around. They can make their way up to the summit sign if conditions are agreeable and, or they can get back in the train for shelter or heat and then come down rather than the hour stay that we give them when the full facilities are open up there in the state park is operating. So we'll have a few weeks of kind of our shoulder season summit runs that are coming right up around the corner on May 3rd.

[00:10:57] Okay. Yeah. And those are probably worthwhile. I mean, probably the weather will be a little bit colder, but it's a good opportunity for people if they want to be up there with less crowds. So yeah, that sounds, sounds pretty cool. I didn't know, I forgot whether or not you guys go up before the state park fully opens up. So that is, that is fun. And then from a maintenance perspective, do you have to do a lot of work on that section above 4,000 feet or are you, you, you're going up above 4,000 feet occasionally, but not as frequently, right?

[00:11:24] Yeah. We'll go up like myself and other crew members will go up to keep the tracks clear above there periodically so we can assist in rescues if called upon. And also so the snow drifts don't become untenable for getting things going in the spring season, but it's not officially open to passenger traffic until it's inspected by our track form. And so that's going to be coming right up around the corner and he'll be putting the track back into service and the track crew will assess any blocking that needs to get tended to and, and things.

[00:11:53] But right now he, he did our track film and took a look just about a week ago and things are looking in good shape. So we're going to be ready to roll right into regular track maintenance and nothing, nothing pressing is on the agenda, which is good. Nice. And then any big capital projects going on? I feel like you were talking about maybe doing some, some bigger building projects, but I don't know. Is there anything interesting going on at the base station? Any new additions?

[00:12:19] Nothing yet. There's some things that are sort of on, on the, the, the docket where we might be getting into. That's because they're, they're sort of not official yet. We're not really talking about them other than the fact that we are going to expand the shop facility slightly. We built a new shop facility just a few years ago, and we're now going to incorporate an addition to that,

[00:12:41] that will supplant the disused shop facilities that are still on the property that are very dated spaces where we can't really work in anymore. So that'll be some development that's going on. And we just replaced the trackage at the base that runs from the shop to the station with brand new track and grading the roadbed there. So that was a big undertaking. And then we've got to do the track that's parallel to that coming up this season.

[00:13:05] So we're biting off chunks at a time, but, but there's some things there's a, there's a big master plan that we're putting into motion for sure. All right. Well, I got an idea for you and I'm trademarking it, but you guys can have it for free, but the Cog Brewery, the Cog Brewing Company. Right. That, okay. That could get some traction because we've thought about, we have this old shop that's got a brick floor. Right.

[00:13:28] That's from the 1800s and what better use, you know, we can't work in there and it doesn't meet our needs as a working environment, but that as, as a brewery, I mean, the historic nature of that building, that brick floor, that, that history. I mean, that, that could be something right there. And I think people would, would really flock to something like that. Oh yeah. No doubt about it. No doubt about it. So, all right, well, we'll keep an eye out. You keep us updated and you tell us what you can tell us when you can tell us.

[00:13:51] But the other thing I wanted to hit you up on is I got the opportunity. So the Cog was involved in a recent rescue. So we covered this like two weeks ago. It was like four or five hikers from Canada that, that one of them had gotten in trouble. So it was not a great weather day. And I think that they got caught in icy conditions. One of them slipped, fell, broke their leg. So you guys were able to get rescue teams up on the Cog. How far up did you, were you able to take them?

[00:14:16] So we went up to about 5,000, really about 5,200 feet, right where the West side trail cuts under the track, an area that we call skyline on the railway. And that's where we were able to put teams in. That's where a lot of the hikers moon, you guys, right? Is the skyline. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's skyline either, either on the, the AT on Gulf side itself or, or, you know, or down by, by skyline there with any place where the trails get really close to tracks is, is where there's a, the risk of a full moon. Yeah. Right.

[00:14:46] So, um, will you, so what happens? You get a, you get a call and they're like, Hey, we, you get a, we get a rescue. Can you guys help? What, what's the, how do you determine whether or not it's viable to take, take a, um, uh, a real car up there or an engine up there? So there's a couple of factors in play. Uh, we always want to, anytime we get a call and those calls come from, from fish and game, uh, to assist in a rescue, we want to help.

[00:15:11] And the sort of decision-making factors that go into that is I look at how accessible is the track? What's the drifting? Like, what are the temperatures like for the operation of the equipment? And what can we do to minimize impact on the rescuers, but also onto, uh, any risk to the track structure, the, the operating equipment and the COG personnel that may be assisting. So there's a lot of things to weigh there.

[00:15:34] I had known in this case that we had just recently cleared the track and we had an actual stretch of some pretty good melt in warm weather. So I knew snow and ice wouldn't be an issue to our travel on the train. So we'd be able to get the train to the West side trail without, uh, a snow issue of any kind and actually get a coach up because some of the drifts around Jacob's ladder, they can really pound into the point where even though our snowblower train can get through the coach is just a touch wider than what that snowblower cuts through.

[00:16:03] So if the drifting is, is really high on either side, there could be a situation where the coach might not be able to get through. And then we're limited by how many rescuers we can fit in the engine at a time going up through there. So definitely some things to weigh, but this was actually, the timing was fortunate that it was accessible for a full coach to be able to get all the way up there. All right. So you, so you get there, you're prepping the, the engine, and then you got to wait for the rescue teams to go up. Do you go up like multiple times? Do you, is it better for you to go up, drop people off?

[00:16:33] And then head right down, or is it better for you to go up, wait, and then, and then, um, have them come back? What would, what's the preference? I would assume you'd want to keep the train moving if you could. Yeah, it actually does help with the, uh, the warming of the, of, you know, fluids on board. So we've got hydraulic fluid for drive. We've got diesel fuel that circulates. So if we can keep the train in motion, it's just going to keep that, that operating temperature under the hood of the locomotive up.

[00:16:59] And at a place where the viscosity, the fuels and lubricants and, and hydraulic oil are going to be where we want them. In this case, it worked out very well because we were able to get one round of rescuers up, uh, started leaving the base just after six o'clock and get them up to skyline on the West side trail and then come down, get another round of rescuers.

[00:17:21] And then the train can sit up there, but we usually are mindful of pulling it out of the worst impact of the wind so that it's not being rapidly cooled by, by, you know, windblown, uh, effect, especially from underneath. So we'll kind of take into account what direction the wind's coming and where we can kind of position the train to stay up there to wait for rescuers. And if we needed to, we could always run it back and forth if that became an issue as well.

[00:17:45] Yeah. That's kind of funny. It's just, it's the same, uh, ID idea of like us winter hiking, like keep moving. So you can, um, you know, you can keep, keep warm. So that's, that's funny. And then, so you get up there and then the rescue team, you know, we covered the story. So they went out, it still was about a mile for them to get out to the rescue, I think. Right.

[00:18:04] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just about, so they had to go over, you know, beyond clay and, uh, you know, the, the group, they were actually off trail there. Um, and that would have been part of the issue why the fall had happened. And the terrain was exceptionally disagreeable. I mean, it was just awful with the glaze ice. You couldn't trust no rock, no surface was, I mean, if you didn't have traction, there was no way you could, could, uh, gain any footing up there.

[00:18:33] It was some, some of the worst icing I had seen this season. Uh, and just a really, you know, fortunate circumstance for, for that crew that, uh, were able to very hastily dispatch rescuers up because hypothermia definitely a real concern.

[00:18:49] Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's, I don't play around with the icing conditions. Cause what I find too is even like, or if you have crampons, it's probably better sometimes, but even micro spikes crampons, a lot of times, if you're going on like a thin coverage of ice, you don't always bite because sometimes like you've had like bare rock and then it's icing over, but it's such a thin layer that it's slippery, but it's not thick enough to bite.

[00:19:13] So you can run into problems. Even if you have traction, it's not a good, like it's, it's not a good time to hike when you get that glaze.

[00:19:20] Yeah, no, it's a lot of, uh, folks found that the crampons were summarily useless and, uh, spikes actually did better in the conditions that they found. And you're absolutely right that the amount of bite that you're able to get with your traction is extremely limited. You know, so you can use rock spikes thinking you're going to be on rocks, but then if they're not sharp, you're not getting any bite into the limited real estate of ice. That's there. And there's really no good play there. So it's just really bad conditions for anyone to, to be out when it's icing like that.

[00:19:49] Yeah. Yeah. And then I'm sure the rescue team psyched because essentially what you're doing is if, if you can't get the train up there, then they're, um, they're looking at probably hiking about three and a half miles up, maybe four, and then another three and a half, four miles down this way, they're really doing like two miles round trip and they're not doing a ton of elevation. So it really makes it, it really sped it up for them, which is huge.

[00:20:15] Yeah. And that's the goal. That's what we want to provide if, if we at all can. So that, uh, sped up point of access and then basically cut down the round trip time and then the litter carry over while it's icy terrain, it's at least more level icy terrain. And there's always that debate, you know, should you get down below tree line as soon as possible? Is that the script for every rescue? And there are variables that come into play.

[00:20:39] You know, if, if you've got a rescue vehicle that is accessible in one way and the conditions are not prohibitive to stay above tree line to access that these are things you have to weigh in, in, in the grand scope of a rescue. And you can't always have a cookie cutter approach of, you always go down, you always hit below tree line. That is a good sort of standby, but in some cases there are reasons for why you may want to explore another option that's going to expedite things.

[00:21:05] Right. Right. So, well, you guys definitely stepped up once again, people, people talk a lot of shit about the cog sometimes, but you guys are there when, when needed. And this is like, you know, multiple times. We'll probably talk about another, you know, you had the rescue on the other side last winter. Right. So, and I think the deal with the, I mean, my guests, when we talked about this rescue previously, again, it's like, they're not local and probably thinking like, look, this is the one shot I have on this weekend.

[00:21:29] So they roll the dice on the weather. So listeners like you gotta, you gotta be able to change your plans or take down the expectations that the weather is not, not going to be there. If you press, you can get trouble.

[00:21:44] Right. Be adaptable. Don't have summit fever and check that forecast. If you have a plan and you're excited about it and that forecast, you know, says he'd caution here, listen to that. Don't, don't just bowl into it thinking that, uh, that whatever you have out there, you've got enough gear to deal with. That's not always the case. And, you know, these guys were very, very lucky to, to be able to have, um, the result that they wound up, uh, coming to play here.

[00:22:11] Right. Right. Right. All right. Well, thanks again for, to you and the cog for, for helping out there. Now I want to move on to another topic here. Uh, we're getting a lot of questions about stomp Andy. So people are like, is stomp okay? What's going on? Are you guys like breaking up forever? So, um, I wanted to just take a few minutes to just give a brief update on what's going on with stomp. And, um, I feel like the, you know, we owe the listeners a little bit more detail.

[00:22:38] So I put together just a quick, well, it's not really quick. It's going to be about 10 minutes. It's going to be a little, it's going to be heartwarming touching. So, um, I just, if you could indulge me for a little bit, I'm going to just give a little bit of the origin story of Mike and stomp. And then I'm going to give people an update on what's going on with stomp. So let me get into it.

[00:23:05] All right. So before I get into talking about stomp, I want to start off with a little personal story that I'm going to build on. And eventually I will get to the stomp update. So, um, as a reminder, when you listen to the story, think about how powerful, small unplanned moments can be. Uh, cause there's a lot of those involved with it with me and stomp's relationships. I've been reflecting on it a little bit. So sometimes those random things when we are least expecting it shape us the most.

[00:23:31] So, um, starting off when I was young, um, when I was a kid, we got a rabbit. It was on a whim at the Topsville fairground. And at first everybody loved the rabbit. It was a novelty, but you know, I had two brothers and before long, other things took over. You know, we were interested in sports, dirt bikes, roaming around town on our bikes with friends and otherwise just out causing trouble. So the rabbit ended up in a pretty big cage in the backyard.

[00:23:57] And, you know, we didn't think much about it aside from making sure that it was fed and had water. And what we didn't realize at the time is that when you leave a rabbit in a cage, it starts to go a little wild. So eventually the rabbit chewed its way out. And one day we looked out the window of our porch and we started hopping around the yard.

[00:24:16] The whole family jumped up to rush outside to chase the rabbit down with my father leading the way. So I love my dad and he's actually like at this point right now, he's, he's been on his own kind of wellness journey. But at the time he was the kind of guy who wore jeans at the beach. And at the time he smoked a pack of cigarettes a day and he wasn't exactly athletic.

[00:24:36] So watching him try to chase that rabbit down became a core memory for me. It was one of those little moments that sticks with me forever. And I remember the reason it stuck with me so, so deeply is that there was a, there was a shock realizing that my father couldn't run.

[00:24:54] And, you know, he'd take a couple of steps, stop and he'd be completely out of breath, off balance. I didn't have the words at the time. I was a young kid, but it really disturbed me and it hit me hard. And for whatever reason, that moment always stuck with me in the back of my mind. I could, I would always think like my father can't run. And I think that that's when I quietly promised myself that I would never be in a situation where I couldn't run. So I joke about it now and I call this my Forrest Gump moment.

[00:25:21] So we eventually did catch that rabbit, but something changed for me that day. Like I said, I just really became fixated about being able to run. So from then on, running became a part of my life. I ran track in high school. I ran in the winter to cut weight for wrestling. And then I ran in the summer to stay in shape for sports during the school year. Pretty much all through high school and most of college, I kept it up.

[00:25:45] Even after graduation, I ran in regularly up until I got married and had kids. Then like a lot of new parents, I had a period where from the birth of my oldest daughter in 2002 to the birth of my youngest in 2006, where I did stop running. It was about a four year period and I did get out of shape and I had to relearn the joys of running.

[00:26:06] So having kids teaches you quickly that you're no longer the main character in your life. You have to make sacrifices and you put your kids and your spouse ahead of yourself. I signed up for that, but with my wife's support, I made a pact no matter what. I would hold on to running, even if it meant I had to do it at four or five in the morning. Little did I know that those early morning runs would end up being a daily routine for the next 20 years.

[00:26:32] So I still remember coming back to run in 2006, barely making it up the street before stopping to catch a breath. Once I got going again, it became, it came back pretty quickly. I found actually that I could hang pretty well in age group races and it became something that we did as a family. Weekend races, fun runs for the kids and cheering on people at the finish line.

[00:26:55] You know, but like the rabbit situation at my house when I was younger, the novelty of race day for my family wore off and it gradually became more just my thing. So at that point, I started to push the boundaries a little bit and I was looking to sign up for bigger races. My thought at the time was they would come to the races if I signed up for big ones. So this brings me to the stomp part of the story. In late winter 2011, I had the dumb idea to sign up for the Mount Washington Road Race.

[00:27:24] I didn't even remember how the race came onto my radar, but I do remember the excitement of getting picked in the lottery. The first thing to figure out when you get into the Mount Washington Road Race is how the hell do you get down from the summit? There was a message board dedicated to race information back then, so I posted a request for a ride, which was another little moment that set me on a path that I never expected. Probably got a few replies, but one email stood out. It was short and sweet.

[00:27:52] The person seemed nice enough, so we agreed to meet at the start and swap gear in exchange for a ride down the mountain. I think that we exchanged a few emails about training and gear, but otherwise, this was just some random person who I had to deal with for a ride back to my car. So on June 18th, 2011, under the tent at the base of Mount Washington, I handed off a pack full of food and clothes to someone I'd never met, not knowing that moment would change the course of my life.

[00:28:22] The man who took my backpack was Stomp. The weather was perfect that day, so we chatted at the start, and he was easy to spot at the finish. And together with Mrs. Stomp and our new friend Chesley, we drove down the auto road. We were still high on the adrenaline and the excitement of the accomplishment. Little did we know that in the very near future, we would be standing on top of pretty much every summit that we were gazing out in between exchanging stories of race day.

[00:28:49] Mrs. Stomp, always the voice of reason, was baffled that anyone would willingly run up the mountain. I don't know if she realized it then, but I think that that day planted a seed for her too. A little moment that eventually got her seed to grow into a deep love for the mountains. So as we got out of the car that day, I had no idea if we'd ever talk again, but Stomp kept in touch.

[00:29:13] We reconnected the next year at the race, then we kind of drifted apart again, and then in 2014, we unknowingly found ourselves pulled into the same world. The world of hiking and the White Mountains. The novelty of running and the frustrations of injuries due to running forced me to look for alternative options around that time. I'd started to get out for more hikes, even did some winter overnights with a couple of friends on Mount Adams, and I had a rough solo hike on Mount Lafayette.

[00:29:43] I would post a few pictures of my adventures on social media, and Stomp saw a post of mine on Facebook and reached out. Again, little moments. He'd been doing some winter hikes himself, and I never really asked him what got him started, but over the years, I think he was also trying to find something for himself, and he found it in hiking. That day, Stomp invited me to join him and Jimmy Chaga on a trip to Mount Isolation.

[00:30:08] I think this was maybe the fourth or fifth time that I'd ever met Stomp, but again, that hike was another one of those little moments. Going up Glen Boulder Trail, looking down into Pinkham Notch, Stomp's adventurous spirit on full display, it all just clicked. One hike turned into another, and then another, and eventually, a couple years of hiking went by, and at some point, one of us threw out the crazy idea to start a podcast. Stomp by that time had also found a new passion, search and rescue.

[00:30:36] And while our paths diverged a little bit from hiking and what our preferences were for hiking, it also complimented us pretty well for a concept that we had for this podcast. It did take a few more years to actually do it, but it's been an incredible ride. Hitting record for the first time was yet another one of those unplanned turning points. A little moment that has snowballed into something way bigger than we could have ever imagined. Working with Stomp has been amazing. I think he'd agree.

[00:31:04] We've made a bunch of lifelong friendships through this show. We've been able to share our love of the White Mountains and tell stories that matter. So here's the takeaway. Little moments matter. Say hi to somebody on the trail. Join that buddy hike. And if you're feeling bold, ask someone to come along with you. You never know where it'll lead. Now, if you're wondering why I'm gushing all about Stomp right now, don't worry about him. He's fine. We talk or text nearly every single day, but I want to share a bit about where Slasher's headed.

[00:31:34] So we touched on this in a recent episode, but people have been asking for more details. So here's the scoop. Stomp's role in search and rescue has grown. We always knew that this might happen, and while we're prepared for it, I'll admit, I wasn't totally ready, and I probably was in a bit of a denial over it for the last couple of weeks. But we've gotten over that, and we have a plan to keep moving forward. So Stomp will still be part of Slasher. He'll pop up on the main show and on So You Want to episodes occasionally.

[00:32:03] But moving forward, those friends that we've made because of that little moment meeting at the Mount Washington Road Race, a small response to a message board post. Now we've got an army of friends that we'll have that will be a rotating cast of co-host. Nick Sidler from PUDS Podcast will be joining us to help out a lot. So he'll probably be doing a lot of the co-hosting duties, but we'll also rely on our extended Slasher family to help out. Lynn's already stepped up. Andy's here today.

[00:32:32] And I'm sure Dave will be back for more. Plus, we'll have some other surprise co-hosts that will be joining us through the rest of the year. I'll always love talking with Stomp, and I know that we'll have more episodes together. But in the meantime, I hope you'll welcome our new voices with open ears and hearts. We're not perfect, but we'll keep working hard to bring the best stories and conversations from the whites. And to my friend Stomp, thank you for everything you've done and everything you're still going to do.

[00:33:01] You're the glue that holds the Slasher universe together, and for that, I am eternally grateful. And for the listeners, remember, one small, insignificant interaction can change everything for you. That's the power of a little moment. Okay, Andy. So a little heartwarming and touching there, I guess. Very touching.

[00:33:28] That's a fitting tribute for an absolutely great guy. And those are the kind of stories that really give life to the links and bonds people develop and why we do what we do. And that was really touching to hear that. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's like the point, you know, we became friends through this, and we've made all kinds of connections. And hiking does tend to bring people together. It doesn't matter what your background is, what your views are in life.

[00:33:57] A lot of times, I don't even know anybody's backgrounds or views when it comes to hiking. We just like to hike, and it doesn't matter. So, and I feel like that's rare nowadays. It's just an activity. Like, it doesn't matter what you do for work or what your background is or where you live. Like, if you're into hiking, let's just get on the trail and worry about it. So I think put yourself out there a little bit, and you never know. You could host your own podcast someday. That's right. You never know where it's going to lead. And there's a lot of divisiveness out there.

[00:34:23] But the bond of the wild and being out on the trail, I mean, that's something that brings people together in a way that I think gets lost a lot. And I think people should always pay attention to these opportunities to connect over wilderness. Right, right. So, yeah. So I think that that's the update on Stomp. And, you know, if anybody wants to reach out to him, he's still monitoring the Instagram and stuff. And like I said, he'll be around.

[00:34:53] And he'll be back. We know he'll be back. Oh, yeah. He'll be back. He'll be back. So let me ask you a question. If you, let's pretend that you got stuck in the real car, and for whatever reason, you had 10 people that you were working with on the cog, and you guys got stuck, and you couldn't get down, and there was no rescue. Would you or would you not resort to cannibalism if you needed to? Ooh, all right.

[00:35:20] Like, so this, as messed up as this is going to sound, cannibalism is something I've given thought to before, because it's that funny question, because I'm vegan. Some people know that about me. Yeah. So I don't eat meat. But I've talked about sort of in an absurdist sense, would I indulge in cannibalism if the survival mechanism came to be that that was necessary? And I honestly think I would. I mean, not that I am doing it in a brash, savage, uncaring way or a sociopathic way, but

[00:35:50] as far as if the situation presented itself, yeah, I think I would. Not lightly and not without a lot of contemplation as a last resort. But yeah, I think that option would definitely be open in the most trying of circumstances. Yeah, yeah. So we talked a little bit about cannibalism last episode. So listener Tyler McFarland had sent us in an interesting story about Boone Island in Maine. So there's a lighthouse there.

[00:36:20] And there was a there's a story of the Nottingham Galley, which was a shipwreck in 1710. It's a British merchant ship. And it was captained by a gentleman by the name of John Dean. And they 14 crewmen aboard survived the initial wreck, although two initially died. The cook died a few days after the initial wreck. And then a carpenter died a couple of weeks later.

[00:36:45] And then two others drowned, attempting to reach the mainland on an improvised raft. So the remaining 10 crewmen managed to stay alive despite winter. Imagine that stuck on a rock in Maine. You can see the mainland, but you can't get there. And you've got no food, no fire. So they were there for 24 days until they were rescued and they had to resort to cannibalism. They ate. They didn't eat the cook. They ate the carpenter. So which is interesting.

[00:37:13] I would have probably ate the cook. But there is a book that is. Would you think the cook would be more nutritious because they they're skilled and adept in cooking? So probably what they're eating is better. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not sure. But the there is a book called Boone Island, a true story of mutiny, shipwreck and cannibalism that was written in 2012. So I'll link this in the show notes if people want to check it out. But it's a it's an interesting story. And I never knew about this.

[00:37:42] So it's Boone Island in Maine. And it's like it looks like a pretty small island. It's got a lighthouse, pretty big farm attached to it. And definitely worth checking out. Yeah, I only knew about it prior because of the lighthouse, because I'm a bit of a lighthouse freak. But the story was something I wasn't familiar with. So just recently here, any story like this that involves the psychology of being stranded and being in a situation like this interests me.

[00:38:10] And psychologically, what people have to go through to to get themselves out of that and to and to keep themselves going. That that that must have been inconceivable. What what what that might have been like. Right. Right. Yeah. And I said you said you're 240 right at the beginning of the show. So I think that, yeah, you would probably be first, first, first on the on the on the dinner plate for me. Yeah, I got meat on the hook. So I think I'd go pretty quick and I wouldn't be able to fight it at that point either.

[00:38:38] So I wouldn't while my muscle wouldn't would do me no good at that point. Yeah, exactly. Well, thanks for sending that in, Tyler. And yeah, I'll link I'll link the stuff about Boone Island in the show notes. That's a pretty cool story. So so I got a couple of things here that we want to actually I got I got a pretty long list of New Hampshire things to cover. Andy, and then we'll get into Katahdin and Baxter State Park here. So the first story I have here is the stomps.

[00:39:06] Mr. and Mrs. Stomp visited the White Mountains Visitor Center in North Woodstock. So this is on exit 32 on Route 93. And they're giving it two thumbs up. It's got cool swag, trinkets, history and more. So I've never been to the White Mountains Visitor Center, but I've been to a couple of kiosks. Like there's one in North Conway and there's one in Lincoln where they've got a bunch of items and stickers and maps and information. But I've never been to the actual visitor center.

[00:39:35] Have you been here on exit 32? No, I've you know, I'm guilty often of the fact that because I live here, I sometimes am woefully unaware of some of these things that that seemingly cater to tourists. But if you do take that time to go in, you know, like they're two thumbs up. I mean that and they've got little things for sale and history that that's the kind of stuff that we often ignore because it's right here.

[00:39:59] And maybe it's not catered to a local, but but it's neat if you can kind of get yourself out of that mindset and go check it out. But no, I haven't been there. Right. So, yeah, I'll link this in the show notes as well. And if people want to check it out, you know, it's kind of touristy, but if it's a kind of off season midweek or something, you want to swing by, check out the White Mountain Visitor Center in North Woodstock. All right, Andy, this next one is kind of a big this is kind of big news, but it's flying under the radar. Maybe you've heard this. I didn't know this.

[00:40:28] Stomp actually sent this over to me this week, but the Appalachian Trail is being rerouted from from Pinkham Notch. So essentially what's going on is that the suspension bridge over the West Peabody branch of the river, which I kind of knew this, it's it's it's shut off. So I don't know what the setup is. You've been out in the Great Gulf. I feel like Reese, I feel like you might have said something. Yeah, I think it was a couple of years ago now.

[00:40:56] Two years ago, this coming season, I guess is when I was last in Great Gulf. Yeah. All right. So it wasn't recently, but apparently this suspension bridge, I think this is the second one over. So it's the one that connects you from Osgood cutoff to Madison Gulf. There's a suspension bridge there that's shut down. So you cannot access that. I don't know what they have set up there if they just have it like roped off or what the deal is, but they said it's not safe. So you definitely don't want to play around with that.

[00:41:25] So essentially what they're doing is rerouting the official route for the Appalachian Trail. And they're sending people down the Great Gulf Trail out to 16 and then telling you to walk up 16, connect to 19 mile and then out to Carter Hut. So they're bypassing all of Madison Gulf Trail, all of Old Jackson and then all of Wildcat Ridge.

[00:41:52] Right. Yeah. That's taking out a significant chunk, including the, isn't it the steepest mile on the AT with the Wildcat Ridge there? Yeah. Yeah. So I, it's surprising. So I don't know what the mileage is. It's probably, I don't know, it's probably an eight mile section that they're, they're knocking on.

[00:42:10] And it's like a highlight of the, the, the overall hike. So this is going to impact day hikers and weekend overnights and stuff like that too, because essentially you're not, if you want to get into the Great Gulf now, your option is essentially to get in from Pinkham Notch.

[00:42:26] You got to go Old Jackson to Madison Gulf and then you can get into the, you can get into the Great Gulf and Six Husbands and, and all, Chandler Brook and all that area there, the Spanx. Yeah. If you need to go up Osgood, then you've only option is to go Great Gulf. You can risk water crossing there. I just don't know how, my sense is that even in low, in, in like low flood conditions,

[00:42:56] like that section of the river runs pretty good, but the news report said that there is a water crossing that's flagged a little ways down to the left of the suspension bridge, but it's kind of like take your chances. If it's rained out or something, you might not be able to get through. Yeah. It's, it's definitely, that area is a full fort of the river. Like you're going to be boots off up to your, you know, at least thighs, if not waist, depending on the flow and the water level.

[00:43:23] And it's, it's doable sometimes, but it's, you know, hopefully no one tries to test it when, when, with high water. Yeah. Yeah. And I usually only, like I checked the river gauges quite a bit, but I usually only check the PEMI. And then that gives me an assumption of what it's going to be like pretty much all over the place, but it may be worthwhile now, if you're going to be in that area to just check the river gauge on the, on the West branch of the Peabody now to, I don't know what the numbers are.

[00:43:48] I typically, I got to look it up again, but I think typically like it's, if it's under 200 or something on the, on the PEMI, you're good. I don't know what the number guidance is. I'll do a little bit of research and try to figure that out. If anybody knows, just hit me up over the Instagram, but it's just something to factor in. If you're going to be in that area that you don't assume that you can get across the river that easily.

[00:44:08] Yeah. And, and I don't know if you know, but one of the questions that came to my mind when I heard about this is, is this in sort of an interim process and eventually there'll be a new bridge put in, or is this more of a long-term deviation from the, from the route?

[00:44:25] I don't know. I mean, I would assume that they're going to need to put this into the project pipeline. And based on what I see for the project pipeline in the forest service, you know, I think just last week, the decision was finally made on the Lincoln woods reroute. And that's been in the pipeline for like three years.

[00:44:48] A while. Yeah. So who knows how long it's going to take and who knows what the scale of the project is. If it's only fixing the cables and you don't have to get involved in any environmental impact, then maybe it's not that big of a deal. But if they got to take the whole thing down, they probably have to do a complete environmental impact study. Talk about like, all right, if we've got to cut trees down or something, then it becomes, yeah, it becomes a whole thing. I think.

[00:45:12] Yeah. That that's an involved process and then securing funding and scope of project. It's yeah, it's, it's not a quick turnaround by any means. Yeah. So we'll see. But I think that the, if, if you're going to, if you're going to risk crossing it, just do it in a period over the summer where it hasn't rained for like three or four days and take a look at the gauge. We'll, we will get the numbers on the, like what's a reasonable cry. I'll get out there at some point and try to get us lay the land and then give more details. Or if we have anybody that's out there, if they can get a sense of it. I just can't remember how dicey it is.

[00:45:41] Cross in that section. I got to look back at pictures. Last time I was in there was to do. So I, I, I amend that I was there last year to do Madison golf. And I remember that I would not have wanted to cross the river when I, and I was a little bit shoulder season on that. I believe I was early May, you know, trying to, to get up as one of the earlier, a sense of Madison golf in non full winter conditions. And yeah, no, I wouldn't have wanted to go across the river by any means when I was in there doing that.

[00:46:11] Okay. Awesome. Well, Appalachian trail reroute. So we'll keep an eye on it and we'll update when we find out more. All right. Next up, Andy, the ice out. Do you know what the ice out is? I do. And, uh, I try to take a stab, you know, if at least the last few years of nailing when it's going to be, and I'm always wrong. Just never, never even, you know, I can get within a week maybe, but I can never nail that thing.

[00:46:32] Yeah. Yeah. So the ice out for people that aren't familiar with this, this is, um, when, when Lake Winnipesaukee declares that the ice is clear enough for the, what is it? The Mount Washington. Is that the name of the ship? Yeah. The MS Mount Washington can get through all five like sections of the Winnipesaukee.

[00:46:51] Yeah. So people often misunderstand. It doesn't mean that all traces of ice have disappeared, but is it navigable, navigable slash passable for, for the ship essentially is their metric for, for measurement, I guess.

[00:47:02] Right. Right. So, and it's a matter of fact, when I was on the Ossipies a couple of weeks ago, I looked down at the, at the lakes region and it was fully iced over and I was surprised. Uh, but last year, I think it iced out in early March or mid March, but this year much later. So it actually happened. We had it in the script and we were like put in your prediction, but it ended up icing out at 7.02 yesterday. So we're recording this on the April 17th. So it's now April 16th.

[00:47:32] So it was 7 to 7.02 AM. And there's a website that we'll link that will give you, um, a, a chance to put in for it. So you put in for it, but you've never, you've never guessed correctly. No. And it looks like this year's when I really got pretty close within a few hours. Yeah. Yeah. It's not bad. So yeah. Rusty round Island got it at 1036.

[00:47:58] So anyway, so that's a fun little New Hampshire thing here. Um, all right, Andy, next up here is, uh, have you ever done any acting? Have you ever done any high school plays or, um, community theater or anything like that? Uh, sadly, well, I guess not sadly, but yes, I was a bit of, I kind of crossed all kinds of, um, definitions and, and, and, uh, clicks in high school because I was on varsity sports, but I also was in drama club.

[00:48:26] So I definitely, uh, did some theater. Uh, I've never done any movie acting, but yeah, I've, uh, I've been on the stage before and it's been a while, but yeah, I've, I've dabbled in that a little bit. All right. All right. Well, this may be your big moment. So I've often talked about how I have some concepts around Hallmark movies based in New Hampshire and Waterville Valley.

[00:48:48] And, um, now there's a movie that is going to be based on hiking. That's going to be filmed in New Hampshire and they're actually looking for actors. So, um, matter of fact, I'm going to reach out to the, uh, the producer of this, see if I can get her on the show. I may even drop your name and see if I can get you an audition. Yeah. Put a little in for me because, uh, I might be a little rusty, but if it's in my wheelhouse, like if they can typecast me in the hiker role, I think I can nail it. Right. Right. Yeah. You can be like a crusty through hiker. You have to grow a beard though.

[00:49:16] Yeah. It's, it'll be method acting. I'll definitely have to get my, the right scent going and not shower for a while and not, you know, embrace the role. Yes, exactly. So, um, but anyway, so there's an article in the New Hampshire union leader and the movie is called only you. And it's a father daughter hiking drama that is, um, written and conceived by Erica Lynn Jolie. And I'll talk about Erica in a minute. Cause she is one of us, Andy. She's a real hiker. Yeah. She's legit.

[00:49:45] Yeah. She's legit. I was reading about this. So, uh, the concept is a young father and is a strange daughter, men, their broken relationship while hiking the Appalachian trail. They meet a diverse cast of supporting characters along the way and form a trail family of sorts. So the movie is looking for new England actors as it'll be filmed between June 13th and July 6th in Lincoln, New Hampshire. This is huge. So except for a few main rules, all the casking crew must be able to get themselves to the set.

[00:50:14] So they're looking for local hires who can reasonably commute to, this is all you Andy, commute to Lincoln for multiple days, housing and transport transportation can be provided if necessary. Um, the rate of pay is listed as $150 a day, which would be about $1,200 for eight days of work. So you can even get paid here. So yeah, there's, there's a lot of unpaid extra work and this is just actually paid. So that's, that's not so bad.

[00:50:41] Right. Right. Yeah. And there's been a couple of these, there was this, there was this movie on Netflix. I think it was like last year and it was about this girl who decided to go through hiking and, and it was like a, it was like a, a class to learn how to go through hiking. But they actually did like the whole trail and they had like a guide or something and she ended up meeting a guy or it was like a Hallmark movie, but it was on Netflix.

[00:51:05] But I don't think they ever really do a good job of showing the trail. Like they basically spent the entire movie in like this meadow and it looked nothing like the Appalachian trail. So I'm happy that they're doing it in New Hampshire. Right. At least it's going to give some, some real world credence to the, to the trail conditions. And yeah, that's my biggest gripe too is, um, you know, movies like infinite storm. It's like, this is great and all, but it's not set here. And it's painfully obvious, you know, when, when that's the case.

[00:51:32] Yeah. Yeah. I'm still waiting for that movie where, uh, like the, the movie about the caretaker at the Harvard cabin like that. And again, that's a documentary, so it's a little bit different, but like the tone and the cinematography that they were able to use in that film, just like it screamed, like it just felt like that's, that's the white mountains. That's New Hampshire. That's everything.

[00:51:55] So if they can capture that in a movie, that'd be super cool. And there's a little bit more detail on, and it's on the Indiegogo site, which is the site where I think independent filmmakers can put information about their movies and they can, uh, you can donate if you want to, to help with the production.

[00:52:14] So a little bit more detail. It's this movie is a coming of age drama about a young woman confronting her grief and her alcoholic father as she embarks on a 2,185 mile hike along the Appalachian trail three years after her mother's death.

[00:52:30] So a little bit more information. I don't want to give away too many spoilers, but a little bit more about Erica Lynn Jolie, because I was skeptical whenever I hear about a movie, I'm like, are they really going to do Erica is a legit hiker. So I just, I'll shout out her resume in a minute, but she's the writer and director. And she says in the Indiegogo site, thank you so much for your interest in our film and joining our team. She's been working on this project for four years and she's excited to finally get the script to screen.

[00:52:58] She first thought of the concept when she finished a five day hiking trip with her dad in the white mountains back in 2020. She climbed her first mountain at age four and she's hiked all across the East coast of the U S including the 48, 4,000 footers. She did a 26 day trek on the John Muir trail with her dad. And then, um, she's hoping to do the entire Appalachian trail with her dad as well. So she decided to write a film about it. And there, she says, there's just something about being in the woods far away from the chaos.

[00:53:27] And high pressured environment of the real world. When you step on the trail, you leave everything else behind and hiking is a bonding experience like no other. So she says this movie was a perfect place for her main characters to rediscover themselves and heal their broken relationship. So she sounds like she's really sincere. She's got a good hiking background. So I'm rooting for her.

[00:54:19] Being a retreat from, from the, a lot of the high paced life that, that we're kind of trapped within. And this, this is going to be a good one. I I'm going to keep an eye on this for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited about it. And then, like I said, I am going to reach out to her, see if she wants to come on to talk a little bit more about it. I think right now she's, they are trying to raise a little bit of money.

[00:54:38] I think they probably have backers, but she had talked about like, she can raise a hundred thousand. She can do a couple of days. If they get 150,000, they can get a little bit more professional crew, 200,000. They can promote the film. So, you know, we'll see what happens here, but it's, it sounds exciting. So a chance for a real hiker to actually highlight the Appalachian trail for once. So yeah, I'm excited about that.

[00:55:03] All right. So moving on to our next story, Andy. So we had a recent rescue on Mount Cardigan. So you ever get on Cardigan? Oh yeah. That's one of my more recent favorites, much like a stomp. I love the whole trail and it's, it's probably in my top five hikes. I have a special place for Cardigan for sure.

[00:55:30] Yeah. Yeah. I got to get back out there. We did the, I did the, like the fire screw to the, I didn't do the, I didn't come down the whole trail, but whatever that other trail is that reconnects to the whole trail at the bottom. Like I just started at that AMC center, but it was, it was awesome. You're above tree line. So very much like Monadnock. I feel like it's a, you're above tree line, a long time. Awesome views, awesome ledges, tons of little like nooks and crannies to sit down with open ledge views. It's awesome.

[00:55:54] Yeah. There's for a mountain that's only a little over 3000 feet. Yeah. You get a lot of time above tree line. The ledges are great. I mean, people say that Holt is like a mini Huntington and I know what they're going for. It it's, it's not quite, but it has some challenges to it. And the pitch of the, um, of those slopes is, is something that it gives you some good experience on ledges and, uh, some pretty good exposure.

[00:56:20] So if it's, if you're trying to like, you know, see if what I like Huntington, you know, go, go do the whole trail because it'll, it'll give you an idea for sure. Right. Right. That's a good segue into our story from New Hampshire fishing game. So, um, on, yeah, check it out, check out the whole trail. And if you survive that, you, you know, you'll be okay. Then just go right to Huntington. Just go right to Huntington now. So not now, just wait, wait until, wait until mid June.

[00:56:46] Yeah. So, which it dries out. Exactly. So the, on Tuesday, April 15th, 6 55 PM conservation, you're going to hear a lot of like this, this one is one of those ones where it's like, check the list of all the bad choices that you can make. But, um, 6 55 PM conservation officers notified two hikers who felt stuck near the summit of Mount Cardigan. Neither hiker had any injuries, but they felt unsafe to move as the trail was steep and icy.

[00:57:13] Again, it's another one of those scenarios. Like we were talking about where, you know, it's, it's thin ice. So even if you have spikes, you might not necessarily be, be okay in those situations, but they felt like they couldn't proceed up or down safely. So they called for assistance.

[00:57:28] Turns out it was two 20 year old hikers. Um, one out of Hanover, I think is a Dartmouth student and then they're a friend from Los Angeles. So probably not as familiar with the areas they should be. Um, they had started hiking up the West Ridge trail. I don't know where, is that the one that takes you to fire screw and around or is that to the left?

[00:57:47] I believe so. So I'm trying to remember cause I have gone down fire screw, gone down Manning, Clark, West Ridge. Yeah. I believe that's over on the other side there by, by fire screw.

[00:58:00] Okay. Yeah. So they started up West Ridge and then, uh, they started around four 30. So that's one thing is it's a little bit late in the day. You don't have much. I mean, I think the sun sets at seven and then while descending the South Ridge trail, they ran into snow and ice that they couldn't maneuver around. So they didn't have any micro spikes. Um, they didn't have any food. They didn't have any extra clothing.

[00:58:25] They didn't have headlamps. So they were, you know, they were out doing their thing, but, um, you know, we've, we've got another article. We're going to follow up on this to talk just a little bit about like sometimes young people, they just don't know. They don't know what they don't know. So, um, if they had brought those things, it's likely that assistance would not have been needed, but essentially conservation officers reached the pier around nine o'clock. They provided clothing, warm fluid and micro spikes. And then the group made it down to the trailhead in about an hour.

[00:58:53] So 10 o'clock without incident. So, um, fishing game does indicate that they are going to bill for this incident. So, um, and then the, the writeup says technically it's spring and warmer weather's approaching, but it's imperative that you prepare yourself for the outdoors with recent snowfall in the mountains. The next few weeks will still have winter conditions. So think about having proper footwear for the activity that you're gauging, engaging in a headlamp and proper clothing and layers. So yeah, you got to keep bringing your spikes with you.

[00:59:23] And, um, just a little follow up, a listener, Jennifer, shout out to Jennifer. So Jennifer actually messaged. So she came upon both of them at the summit at the time. And she's like, look, you know, I got my headlamp. If you guys need help, I'm happy to like hike down with you. And they declined. They said that that's point that they like didn't feel safe. And I honestly, probably the right call for them. If, if they didn't feel safe. And you know, Jennifer is one person, there's two of them.

[00:59:51] If something goes sideways, you know, it could have been a war situation. So it was actually probably a better call for them to sit tight, let the professional crew get there. But shout out to Jennifer. Cause she had her headlamp. She's prepared to go, you know, to help them out. And, um, you know, just gives a little bit of perspective that they, you know, they weren't completely by themselves. So people were checking on them, but you get up there and you, it's, it can be sketchy up there. So they, they probably made the right choice to wait. They're going to get billed for this one, but it'll be a lesson learned for them.

[01:00:22] Yeah. And, and hopefully a broad lesson to, you know, with shoulder season hiking, you know, we get excited. The warm weather comes, the snow starts to recede out of, you know, at least the trail heads. And, you know, you think that the ice is on the retreat and you get these flows because of the freeze and thaw. And as they run over rocks, like we were talking about that thin ice that doesn't present much of a bite. And if you don't have spikes at all, I mean, you will get, especially if your down route is different than your up route, at least on your up route.

[01:00:48] If you're planning on, you know, doing an out and back, you can assess it and be like, will I want to come down this? And if not, I can turn around. You have a different down route. You don't know what's going on is you need to be prepared and need to go out with, you know, just like in the 80 Ks and they make you carry snowshoes within certain seasons. You're in, in the whites or, you know, hiking in New Hampshire, really anywhere in New England, you know, carry those spikes, at least a pair of rock spikes well through, you know, April and even into May, depending on what kind of year we're having.

[01:01:16] Right. Right. Yeah. And I never, everybody says rocks, but I can't, Andy, I can't tell which one of my micro spikes is a rock spike and which one is the brand new one after like two hikes. I'm always looking at them like, is this a rock spike or is this a nice spike? I can't tell. Right. And to the point I've gotten to now where my, my Katulas are rock spikes and my Hillsound trail crampons are my, my quote unquote good spikes. Oh, that's a good call.

[01:01:40] So I've got that system going, but yeah, I've got a couple of pairs of Katulas and I can't tell which is which in terms of if I would call one rock versus one not at this point. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a good, that's a good call. Actually. I D I guess I probably could get like a green pair of Katulas and then a black pair of Katulas and use them that way. But anyway, but, but it's interesting. So Andy had sent over a separate article in preparation for this episode and it actually ties into this. So this, this was a case of two 20 year olds and, you know, smart.

[01:02:09] She goes to Dartmouth. She's definitely a smart person, but young people, we see this quite a bit. Like I've seen a couple of cases. There was a group on a MIT, I think that got in trouble on the Bowles trail on Shakora. At one point, there was another group from Cambridge at one of the graduate students that got in trouble on the rainbow trail up the backside of the corridors there. Yeah.

[01:02:32] And you do see this like really smart young people that think that they're ready to go when they get out on these adventures and they need a rescue. So it's, it's, and then I also see in the metrics that I pull, there's this, like, it's a dip. When you look at the volume, it's like very heavy in the 20 to 25 year range. And then very heavy in like the older 70 plus range. And then it sort of dips down a little bit in the, in the age ranges.

[01:02:58] And I think that part of it is that young people don't have the, you just don't have the knowledge, but they have a little bit more confidence. And then you've got the older people that might have the knowledge, but they overestimate their physical capabilities, or they just have less room for, if an injury happens, it's more catastrophic for them.

[01:03:18] So you pulled this interesting article out of the United Kingdom that provides metrics on rescue numbers. So this is an article in the Guardian. Why don't you talk a little bit about like, if you want to give an overview on this one, Andy, and then we can get into the metrics a bit.

[01:03:34] Sure. So basically an article talking about how social media and sort of an over-reliance on, you know, map apps. So things like all trails, for example, are being linked to an increase in, in rescue calls. And particularly in that age range of 18 to 24 year olds, because like you said, they don't have the same experience necessarily all the time. And they've got this invincibility factor sometimes. I mean, I was there.

[01:04:03] I lived this where you're in that age and you think that you can take on anything and anything that comes up, you can adapt and, you know, you've, you've got the ability to overcome and that's not always the case. And I think, you know, one of the things this article hits on is not just that, that reliance and that false confidence that grows out of everyone being able to download a map app on their phone, but also social media kind of glorifying trips into areas that can be technical.

[01:04:33] And people want to say that they've been there. They want to get that picture. They want to get those accolades. And, you know, I don't think we have as much of that here in the whites. I mean, we've got some spots, we've got Huntington, we've got, you know, Bond cliff and places where people want to take that shot. But there's, I think there's less like ego driven hiking here than there is in some other places, maybe out West and maybe over in the UK.

[01:04:54] But that, that age demographic I think is, is really telling is, you know, when we get into the data that this article talks about, just how many, how much percentage of these rescues is skewing into that age range. And, you know, it breaks it down and, and you can just see how disparate the call outs are in the, in that particular age range of, you know, like college age kids.

[01:05:16] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The article it's, it's, it's noteworthy. So the article covers rescue data across England and Wales. And it's, it breaks down a comparison from where they were in 2019 to 2024. And in 2024, they hit a milestone where they had a search and rescue call out every single day of the year. And the volume of rescues that they have is significant.

[01:05:45] I would say like, you're talking about three to 4,000 rescues, maybe a little bit less than that, maybe about 3,000 rescues over the course of a year. So the volume compared to New Hampshire is, is much higher, but the, the actual, when you look at the age range group, if I put an overlay on the metrics that I pull for the media reported incidents against what we're seeing in this data for the UK, it's pretty similar.

[01:06:14] The biggest change demographically from 2019 to 2024 is the 18 to 24 year old age group almost doubled in the number of rescues went from 166 call outs to 314. And then when you look across the remaining age groups, the only other age group category that really stands out of, for having a significant increase is 75 to 79 years old.

[01:06:40] Everybody else is within, you know, 10% of the, the prior five year total. So I think that there's something to it. And like you said, the article talk calls out these honeypot spots that they, they say are really popular over social media. And what they're finding is that young people are seeing these, these spots posted on social media and then using map apps instead of paper apps and not taking the time to really learn the skills that need to be learned in order to stay safe.

[01:07:09] And then they just, they just do a rescue call. So that's why like the hiking buddies have done a really good job trying to reach out to young people. And I think if you're a hiker and you've got a young person in your life, like I've tried to mentor my nephews. And if anybody has, has friends with kids that want to get into hiking, I'm always open to trying to share the knowledge. So definitely don't be shy about trying to like educate people in a way that, you know, try to manage it in a way where you're not being like a jerk about it.

[01:07:37] But if you can reach out and spread some knowledge, I think it's a good thing to do. Absolutely. And I think just always a cautionary tale about technology, while it's a great tool that we utilize and it gives us a lot of abilities that maybe we didn't have before, puts things in reach and in access. That cautionary tale is an overreliance upon it. Will dull skills in other areas and make someone ill-equipped to be adaptable when that fails? Because it will fail. Always plan for that piece of technology to fail.

[01:08:06] And some of that, you know, kind of confirmation bias and false confidence you get from being able to just quickly consume something like downloading a trail app map doesn't bring with it the same kind of experience and skill set that learning compass and map and nav skills is going to get you. So don't take the shortcuts, you know, use the tools, but don't, you know, think that they're the end all be all. Right, right. So, all right. So that was interesting.

[01:08:32] Like, Will, thanks for pulling that, Andy, and I will put that out in the show notes so people can check that out. And I'm going to add that as a footnote on my data presentation as well. That's good comparison data. Next up is mountain forecast. So I don't know, Andy, if you use that or not. Like, I know you probably are constantly using like higher summits, but mountain forecast, I actually like to use it if I'm planning out.

[01:08:56] Like, I'll check it out on like a Monday, Tuesday, primarily just to get a sense on like, all right, how is the weekend trending or is it even viable? And then I'll take a look at it again on like a Wednesday to see if it, okay, does it still look good? People knock it a little bit and say it's not as accurate, but for me, it's like, it's a long range outlook for me so that I can say like, all right, well, this weekend's at least viable based on what I'm seeing.

[01:09:22] And then I'll dial it in with the higher summits forecast and NOAA and a couple of other sources. So I do use, I don't know if you look at it or not. Occasionally, yeah. Like kind of what you're saying, I'll use it as a tool, especially in a longer range because you don't have that ability with the higher summits forecast. So you can kind of get a rough idea.

[01:09:42] But I do find it like I'll actually laugh at it sometimes when I'm looking at it in a short range forecast because we know sort of the factors that are in play in the microclimates that we're dealing with here in the whites. And sometimes it's woefully inaccurate, but I think as a loose model and as a guide and as a piece of your forecast puzzle, it definitely has a purpose. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And there's a bunch of tools like Joe Lintini.

[01:10:08] I was watching this presentation from him and he talks about like using the text messaging for the higher summits forecast and White Mountain forecast. So you can get a lot of info through that. But I wanted to just bring up Mountain Forecast just because it's moving to a pay model.

[01:10:24] So, and I think it's always had some aspect of a pay model, but I think some of the features of the longer term outlooks are going to be moving to a pay model. So just be prepared for that if you use that. And because of this, I think obviously higher summits forecast is the primary, but I'm also going to put a couple of links in the show notes. So Philip Warner, Section Hiker. Do you go on that site at all? I have poked around on it.

[01:10:54] Yeah, it's a good kind of landing page where it compiles. You know, so if you're looking for, you know, a place to jump off from for all these different resources, it's a great place to kind of to start that from. So you can compile a multitude of tools rather than just, you know, one forecast. Right, right. So he has a he actually has a really good page on White Mountain 4,000 foot of weather forecast.

[01:11:16] So he links NOAA and mountain forecast and New England trail conditions and the observatory, the avalanche forecast, and then the water dashboard gauge readings. And then he's got local NOAA forecasting for all of the 4,000 footers. So you can check that out. And then I'll also link in the show notes, the trail New Hampshire forecast, which is our friend Kimball Rexford. He was on episode 154. And he's got a really good aggregated forecast page on trails New Hampshire.

[01:11:46] Yeah, that episode opened my eyes. You know, I'd always kind of known about that page, but I've really looked at that more since tuning into that episode. That's a great resource. Yeah, yeah. Kimball does a great job there. So anyway, mountain forecast going to a pay model. So throw that in the trash if you don't want to use it. And then, you know, we've got we got a bunch of better options for you if you need it. So. All right.

[01:12:09] And now my last article here, we're going to skip pop culture and a couple of other things just because we're running along here. But I did want to include this one because I put it in the show intro. So there's rumors of a serial killer. So do you have you have met a serial killer or someone you thought might be a serial killer, Andy? I think I've had thoughts before. You know, there's always that thing that goes through your head is, you know, is this person socially awkward or is there more to this? And I think that's something that everyone feels at some point dealing with certain people.

[01:12:39] Well, I feel like train yards are a place where you would generally find a serial killer. Yeah, I think that was a common like in in, you know, sort of the hobo days of, you know, people being transient and hopping trains. I think that was, you know, because unfortunately serial killers often target folks that are of a demographic where maybe, you know, no one's going to realize they're missing. They're of a lower socioeconomic class or status.

[01:13:04] So that has lent itself to, you know, to being things that happen in, you know, rail yards and sort of disconnected places where people don't they're not on the map, so to speak. So when they disappear, who might know or how quickly will someone know? Right, right. Yeah, there was a, I remember when I was in North Adams, there was a serial killer. I forget the guy's name, but he was, he was arrested around the time I was in North Adams and he was like a pretty prolific serial killer. I think he killed like four or five young, young girls.

[01:13:33] I forget his name, but that was a big deal. But I feel like serial killing is more difficult now. Like everyone has cameras with the DNA technology and their ability to take like a small piece of DNA and then use genealogy to zero in on someone. I feel like a lot of the serial killers have sort of like, maybe they've moved on to something else. I don't know what else they moved on to, but I feel like it's not as easy to be as it's, it's a tough world for serial killers nowadays.

[01:14:03] It seems like. Yeah, it's hard out there. You can't fly beneath that radar. I mean, the dragnet of, of being able to track movements and patterns. I mean, it's, it's hard to, to, to sort of stay beneath that. Yeah. Like the good old days, like Ted Bundy, you kill a few people. He'd get arrested. He'd break out of jail, kill a few more. You know, the seventies, they, they, they, it was a good time for the Seracos. But anyway, that was the heyday. That was the heyday. But so the reason I bring this up is that there's an article and there's a bunch of rumors going around.

[01:14:33] So fears are mounting that I don't believe this for a sec, by the way. I'm just, I'm going to give away the headline right now. So fears are mounting that a serial killer is stalking quaint New England towns after the remains of three women were found in the span of six weeks. So residents across Connecticut, Massachusetts and Rhode Island are on high alert following these discoveries. So I guess there was a, March 6th, it was the remains of a 35 year old woman from West Islip, New York that was found in New Haven.

[01:14:59] And she, she was found in the Norwalk river after a heavy rain. And then on March 21st, police found another set of human remains of a 59 year old mother. And in Rhode Island, police found another set of remains in a wooded area of Foster, Rhode Island, which was later identified as a 56 year old woman. So several other sets of unidentified remains have also been located in New England towns during a similar period.

[01:15:28] And police are saying there's no information at this time suggesting any connection. And when you look at the locations here, it goes all the way down to Southwest Connecticut, right at the New York border up to, you know, there's four in Connecticut, one in Rhode Island, and then looks like one on April 10th. And, you know, somewhere around like, looks like Needham or something like that. So I don't know if one person found in the water.

[01:15:55] I don't know what, it seems like they're very loosely connected, similar demographic, like you talked about, like maybe lower social economic, maybe single moms, things like that. So we'll keep an eye on it. But I think if you're in that area, just be on the lookout for serial killers. That's, that's the advice I tell you. Like just look out, don't want, don't go near bodies of water. Don't go out late by yourself.

[01:16:18] And like, you know, if you're going to go to the gas station or the ATM or something, like if you're a, if you're a, you know, just, just go with other people and just keep your head on a swivel. Strengthen numbers, you know, protect yourself. But sometimes things like this, they wind up being like a stab, you know, oh, could it be a serial killer? Are these connected? But unfortunately, drawing that link while it drums up attention doesn't seem like at this point that it's routed in anything concrete.

[01:16:45] Just the fact that there, there's loose similarity. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So we all know that hiking a mountain can be hard at times. So here's a corny dad joke to help you get over it. Ba-dum-bum. Are you, do you, are you a fan of the dad joke section of the, the episodes? Do you like those, the dad jokes? Oh, I do. Yeah. I, all, any jokes I ever tell in, in my life.

[01:17:12] And I tried one the other day that, that fell like a, you know, flew like a lead balloon. But yeah, I'm a dad joke kind of guy. Okay. All right. He's an actor. He's a, he's a dad joke kind of guy. All right. So I'll start with, why do bananas have to put on sunscreen before they go to the beach? Ooh. Because they might peel. Yeah. See, I didn't want to ruin that punchline. Yeah. Yeah. You knew it. You knew it. So yeah. So thanks to, I get my dad jokes from, my friend Julie got me a dad jokes mug and I can get

[01:17:41] information online, the dad joke of the day. And then I also have my friend Camilla and my friends Camilla and Lance got me a book. So thank you very much for my endless unlimited reservoir dad jokes. Yeah. Patrick from the summit with the state is a, is a big dad joke kind of guy. So, you know, if, if we're ever lacking, we can tap his resource for sure. All right. I may have to message him to get some ideas. So, all right. So 48 peaks.

[01:18:08] So, um, use your passion for hiking to help end Alzheimer's. Join 400 plus hikers as they climb New Hampshire's 4,000 footers or create their own challenge to support the mission of the Alzheimer's association. The annual hiker celebration will take place Saturday, June 21st at Tuckerman Brewing with raffles, food, and an amazing community. Hike that weekend or any day that you want this summer. No fundraising minimums required, but those who raise a hundred dollars will receive the

[01:18:37] 2025 performance grade purple t-shirt. Let's turn the white mountains purple to end Alzheimer's. Visit ALZ.org slash 48 peaks to learn more. And if you're interested in joining the slasher 48 peaks Alzheimer's team, we've got knobby hikes as my co-captain and there's a link in the show notes and you can sign up, um, and join the team. So I think we've got trying to think and see how many people we've got on the team right now. So we have four members of the team.

[01:19:06] And then I think I've got like my, my daughter and her boyfriend and then knobby's got his son too. So we'll get, we'll get them added, but yeah, join the team. And Andy, if you want to join up, you can take the cat with you if you want. We're going to hike Mount Madison. That's, that's the, that's the summit we picked. Nice. Do you have a route picked out yet or is it TBA? To be determined. I think I'm always of the mind of going up airline if, if the weather's nice, but I'm

[01:19:33] not, I was thinking about maybe going, I forget what that trail is when you go up Valley Way. And then before you get to that Bruin split, there's another split to the left, which I think that that trail begins with a B2 and you can go up that way and kind of connect with Watson path or whatever. I don't know. I don't know what that trail is, but I was kind of like, Oh, why would you do that? Let's go up airline. Yeah. Yeah. The airline, that's the tried and true way to go. Yeah. Yeah. That's my opinion. So, all right.

[01:20:02] So yeah, but sign up for the 40 picks. Andy, if you want to join us, let us know. If not, just give us a honk on the, the, the, the, the cog railway as we're going up. Oh, absolutely. And I, I'd love to join. I'm going to look into that and, and it's something I've been meaning to, to participate in and looked at for the last couple of years. I'd love to, love to get involved. Awesome. Yeah. Let me know. All right. So listeners get your free stickers at ski fanatics or spinners, pizza, Paula in Andover. All right.

[01:20:30] And then you can also get slasher swag on our bonfire shop. So choose between our super popular hoodies, classic or V neck tees and more. So the color selection is great and they are priced to move. So help spread the word about slasher and represent today. Um, coffees. If you want to show some support for the pot, we got to get Andy a microphone. People give us some coffees. So, um, you can donate to help pay for web hosting, um, equipment and live events.

[01:20:58] So just want to give a shout out to our friend, Alex M. Alex got four coffees this week and he writes, so I want to support my favorite podcast. So thanks Alex. And we've got a whole bunch of, so you want to episodes in the can right now. We're going to start releasing them and, uh, we've done the wildcats. We've done Canon. I think Stomp's got a couple of episodes, so it'll be good times. So we'll get, we'll get those out pretty soon. And, uh, those will start flowing pretty, pretty fast. Um, Andy, are you drinking anything tonight? I am.

[01:21:27] I've got a, an offbeat one, but, uh, it's called sack lunch. It is a, this is a mouthful blue fluff and utter or a blueberry, sorry, fluff and utter sour. And it's by branch blade, uh, branch blade, sorry. Uh, and it's, uh, it's pretty colorful. It's, it's tasty and I'm a sour kind of guy. So it, it, uh, it, it does it for me. It's a good one. Awesome. Awesome.

[01:21:54] Well, I have a little fancy drink here as well. I am drinking a, um, guava tequila, coconut rum spritzer. Ooh. So my wife is hosting her ladies book club upstairs and, um, we had to do like a, a strawberry salad and then a, like a, a weird, uh, drink here. So, yeah. That, that actually sounds refreshing. Yeah, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. I feel like I'm on an Island breeze here. Hmm.

[01:22:24] So if you have the, if you had the ice cubes rattling, that's what's going on. It's, it's good for the, uh, the, it's going to help usher in spring maybe. Yes, exactly. All right. Any recent hikes, Andy, have you been out anywhere? Yeah. Semi-rease. I've been real busy lately, but, um, you know, a couple of weeks ago I got out on, uh, Sunnape in a new way that I hadn't done before going up Newberry and, uh, going past the, the Whitecliffe, uh, overlook and then Lake Solitude there, which was just beautiful, um,

[01:22:53] mix of, of trail conditions and, um, some of that sketchy, you know, flow, uh, ice that you get this time of year. But, um, just a beautiful vantage point on Lake Solitude there and, and a way up Sunnape I hadn't done that, um, it was a good quick one to really get out there and, you know, break my, you know, kind of funk that I'd been in after coming down and, um, you know, I hadn't really done much since, since doing Katahdin. So it was, it was a great day.

[01:23:22] Beautiful, beautiful view from there. Awesome. Yeah. So you're, you're a little bit more around Western New Hampshire. So like staying low and a little bit South, you, you avoid like the crazy conditions. So that's kind of like what we do with the Belknaps and Ossipies, I would assume. Yeah. I was looking for something, you know, that, that timeframe where I was hiking, everything up here was pretty disagreeable to me conditions wise. So I was like, all right, if I'm, if I go down, you know, that way a little bit, I can,

[01:23:49] I can get some, uh, some stuff that's a little more manageable where I can keep my speed up and not, not worry about this, the sketchy factor quite as much. Right. Right. So, well, I have not been hiking. I've been, uh, it was, it was rain out this weekend and then I've got, I got Easter coming up. I'm going to be a godfather for my niece. She's getting baptized and all that fun stuff. So, um, no hiking this, but I have been busily planning my trip to Hawaii in October.

[01:24:15] And I'm looking at the Mauna Kea hike, which is the state high point. So it looks like it doesn't look like the most beautiful hike. It looks like you're just sort of like hiking on a desert with, uh, like a moon landing type of hike. Like there's not, there's no trees or anything. It's just like a dirt path. So I don't know. We'll see how it goes. Yeah. That that's going to be one. Um, you know, I once had this mission and maybe I'll get to it someday of doing all the state high points.

[01:24:42] And when I was looking at that in a research way, that was one that I was like, Oh boy, that that one's, uh, yeah, it's 13,500 feet. I think you start, I got to look at the rules for the state high point, but I think you start around 4,500 or 5,000 feet below the summit and then climb up. But it just looks like a really dusty kind of like not a super scenic hike. I mean, you can see out to the ocean and stuff, but it didn't, the videos I've been watching, it doesn't strike me as the most scenic hike.

[01:25:12] Yeah. And that, that's the downside is then you've got that risk reward of, okay, I'm doing this. What's my, what's my payoff. And sometimes that can factor into that, that motivation to keep you going when, when the trail's beating you up. Right, right. So, yeah. And we'll see how it goes. I mean, altitude sickness is legit. You got to think about it at that level. Cause it's, it's pretty high. So I have no idea how my body will react at that elevation. And I don't know what you do. I guess, I guess what they tell the visitors is that there's a visitor center.

[01:25:41] I don't know where it is at like 11,000 feet or something. And they make people wait there 30 minutes before going up if they're going to drive up to the top. So. Right. I think you slowly would acclimate as you're, as you're hiking up, but I could do more research on it. Yeah. I guess stamina building acclimation. I've never done anything, you know, of, you know, 10 K plus type of stuff. So that would be foreign to me, but definitely something I would want to ease my way into. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see how it goes, but I'll get out in the white soon enough.

[01:26:09] But anyway, CS coffee athlete ready. So I'm going to need to drink a lot of CS coffee to get ready for this Hawaii trip. So athlete ready CS instant coffee, visit them at www.csinstant.coffee. Check it out. All right. So quickly notable listener hikes of the week. You can definitely tag slasher on your adventures to be considered for the slasher's hike of the week. No guarantees that you'll be plugged, but we'll do our best.

[01:26:39] So, um, this first guy, ginger beard keen, he's actually the guy that I went to Katahdin with the first time I went there. So I'll mention him. So Mike keen shout out. So Mike keen did a sunrise on Franconia Ridge. And then, um, my co-host last week, Nick and nature hiked cannon. Matter of fact, me and Nick did a, uh, so you want to on that cannon hike. So shout out to him. PC hiker did Garfield and Kinsman this past weekend.

[01:27:08] So, uh, that's, that's good. They're getting out. And then heart diseased hiker 75 did black mountain via the Chippewa trail. You must, you must hit that one quite a bit. Yeah. That that's kind of right in the, right in the wheelhouse here. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great one. And then my friend Jakester did Mount Kinkmagus with our friend Peter. So shout out to him. They're really getting into the, uh, the, the bushwhacking, uh, New Hampshire a hundred highest. So, um, that I saw some pictures there look pretty good.

[01:27:36] So I got to get him on and maybe talk about that one. And then Meg Z 06, 82 did the Welsh sticky loop and she's on number nine of 52 with a view. Nice. So any, any picks for you for the, uh, the, the notable hike of the week? I think I got to go with, uh, Jakester and Kinkmagus cause that, that is, I'm partial to the, to the bushwhacking stuff. And then the hundred highest, cause that's something I want to be transitioning into. So that, that probably my, my leaning. Okay.

[01:28:06] All right. Well, Jakester, Andy is hooking you up. So I'm going to text him later tonight and tell him like, he has to listen to this episode now. So yeah, it is now you're bonded. It's imperative. And there was much rejoicing. Um, all right. So now moving on to our segment of the week here. So we're going to talk a little bit about, um, Baxter state park and Mount Katahdin. So I was interested in having you come on anyway, and then just co-host and made sense.

[01:28:36] So you recently did a solo winter hike on Mount, to Mount Katahdin. And you took a route that I don't think is as common. I feel like a lot of people go in through like, what is it? Roaring Brook and chimney pond or whatever, but you came in via the A-ball campground. So can you talk a little bit about, um, I guess to, to hike Katahdin in the winter, there's logistics that you need to factor in.

[01:29:02] Do you want to just give a rundown of like, how do you go about getting approval to get in there and then talk a little bit about the, you know, the entire experience? Sure. So it's definitely an involved process because the, the, uh, Baxter state park authority really wants to vet, uh, winter hikers to make sure that they have the requisite experience and gear to, uh, get out there and to complete their routes without, you know, a high likelihood of needing a rescue or running into issues.

[01:29:30] So you start by, you know, going on the Baxter state park website, you know, you can review the information there. You can look at routes, you can look at campgrounds and, you know, their recommended gear lists and things that they have. There's a lot of resources there and you can kind of comb that over. And then there's an application basically that you fill out. So you get in there and the application, it'll ask you for your past, uh, experience above tree line and winter conditions.

[01:29:57] It'll ask you for past Baxter park hiking experience, familiar, uh, basically for your familiarity with that terrain there. And then it'll basically go into this battery of asking you, what do you have for gear? And not only what is it, but how is some of it is like, how is it identified? So like for your parka or your outer shell, like what color is it? And these are things that they're going to retain. So if you were to run into issues that you'd have identifying, you know, things about you.

[01:30:22] So they'll look at this and you'll put this in and essentially they'll review your first, second and third. I believe it had spots for, for route choice and campground and then your gear and your experience. And they'll basically make a, a yes or no decision on whether or not this is this application or, you know, this permit is going to be approved and they'll get back to you. And it's pretty quick. I mean, I think they got back to me within like a, a business day or two, um, to let

[01:30:49] me know that I, that I was approved and I've heard, uh, you know, this is the only winter app I've ever put in, but I've heard it can sometimes be tougher to get approved for a, a solo hike. Cause it will ask you that, you know, is this a group app, you know, application or is this an application for solo? What was the, what was the thought in your mind around, like, were you asking around to see if anybody wanted to join you or did you have it in your mind that, you know, I want to do this solo as a challenge or an interesting thing, or I just wanted to get out there to

[01:31:17] clear my head or, you know, was there, was there a specific thought around going solo? Yeah, actually there was that it was, um, kind of a combination between the challenge for myself and also a little bit of, you know, getting out to clear my head and, and to kind of, you know, take a step to really embrace. Cause Baxter is really one of my happy places. I've done a lot of hiking and Baxter park, done a lot of hiking on Katahdin, uh, but never in the winter. So this has been kind of on my bucket list to do a winter Katahdin.

[01:31:44] And I thought it would be more meaningful for me to do it, uh, solo and to really, you know, put myself out there and not just test my skills, but really have some alone time in a place that, that I've really, you know, come to, to be bonded with. Um, so it was, it was a purposeful choice in that regard. And I, I'm really glad that I did it. It definitely presented some unique challenges and some thought processes that I went through of being out there alone, but it, it was something that I'm going to count now as one of the more

[01:32:14] rewarding hikes I've definitely ever done. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely a bucket list, um, activity for sure. So you, you get approval and then, um, you've got to make the decision. I mean, when I've sort of talked, I've thought about doing a winter hike on Katahdin. I will get out there at some point. I always am curious though, about the, most of my friends that have gone out there, the typical setup that I see them is they'll, they'll put together these sleds, which they'll call a polk.

[01:32:39] And you basically, um, set up a sled, you connect it with this PVC piping, and then you'll connect it to your waist belt. And then you drag your gear in because you got to bring in a fair amount of gear because you're base camping and then staying overnight and then climbing the next day. So, um, did you go back and forth about like, what were you going to sled in? Were you going to backpack in? What was your thought process around that? Yeah, it, it definitely, it takes some consideration because the amount of gear and, and, you know,

[01:33:09] just stuff you've got to bring to be prepared. You know, this is the real back country here. I mean, there, there's nothing that's, that's close and accessible. So you really got to take that into consideration and the sled makes it a little easier with her heavy load. But, uh, I basically experimented with just loading up my, my 65 liter pack. And I, I mean, I loaded this thing. I don't know how much it weighed, but it's the heaviest pack I maybe have ever carried on trail. And I did have some regrets.

[01:33:39] I, you know, I'm thinking in the future, maybe I will try the sled method. Um, cause as I was snowshoeing in on the tote road, there were a couple of times that no matter how well I had my pack straps adjusted and everything that I had to bend over and just put my hands in my straps and just, just take some of the pressure off, you know, for a second when I was, you know, taking a quick break and I never have to do anything like that. So it was a heavy loaded pack for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:34:05] And you, so, and then you, you get a route, like, did you tell them? Um, when you put the application in that you had, did you, so you ended up going up a ball, which is not, I think the most popular route. Did you, was that your first pick or did you want to go in another direction? Yeah, it was actually, um, the thought that I had into that was I've done all my hiking on Katahdin has been from basically what I'll call the chimney side.

[01:34:32] So I've done every trail over there, uh, you know, up to chimney pond and then Hamlin Ridge, Dudley Cathedral, saddle, the knife edge, um, roaring brook is usually, you know, base camp or chimney pond. So I wanted to do something. There was a thought process there where maybe I should stick to what I know, but I also wanted to do something profoundly different provided I researched it. And that's when I came into looking at a ball and going in from, you know, essentially that, you know, instead of the West or instead of the East side, rather than maybe the West side.

[01:35:01] And there is also an easier access point when you go in that side. So my trek from winter parking into the a ball campground was 4.7 miles. Whereas when you're going into that other side to get to say roaring brook, I believe it's more in the 10 or 11, um, you know, it's considerably a longer, uh, you know, access point just to get into set up your base camp at that point. So that's something that factored in for me, but also just the newness of, of taking on that other side. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:35:31] And the drawback of going able for people that are thinking about this is, um, when you go in on the chimney side, that's when you get the opportunity to hike across knife edge, and most of the roots. Um, when you come in from a ball, you, you bypass that essentially. But the bonus is, is that you do get to go up these like cool slides and it's pretty steep and fun. And it's, it's, it's its own level of challenging. Um, and we'll talk about like the, the climb as well, but so when you, you get there, you

[01:36:00] parking and then, um, you're heading in on the tote road. Do you see anybody at all? Was the trail broken out? Was there anybody around? What, what's, what's it like when you get started? So when you park at winter parking, so basically you're going in on the logging road, the golden road there. And then there's this parking lot, uh, right near a ball bridge and you park there, you get, you know, get your gear together and then you link over to a network of trails that are essentially, um, traveled often by rangers on snowmobiles and, you know, people on say cross country.

[01:36:29] So they're pretty well packed. Um, I didn't have snowshoes on at this point. I just had spikes and you know, the terrain was pretty agreeable. And as you get closer to like the park and get on the tote road proper from these connector trails, uh, same thing that's basically groomed in there. So you've got a shared traffic with snowmobiles. You've got cross country skiing. And then you've got people like me that are, you know, either snowshoeing in or, you know, maybe they've got spikes on, but it's, it's a big, it's wide, it's groomed.

[01:36:59] So it's pretty accessible. So this piece is, you know, the part that, you know, we'll call it the easy part because it's 4.7 miles. It's only 720 feet of gain and you can get it done pretty quick. Um, you know, getting in there because the conditions are really, you know, they're maintaining it. So you're not finding anything that's, uh, that hasn't been touched or that you've got to break trail on or anything like that. Okay. And then, um, when you're, so you've got four and a half, four or five miles to get

[01:37:27] in there and then what's the plan? So I've been to A ball campground and I've stayed there and basically just set up my tent and, you know, you could pull a car right in there and we kept all of our stuff in a car, but obviously in the winter, you're not doing that. I saw some pictures. So you did stay in a lean to, so you didn't need a tent. So that saves a little bit of weight, right? Yeah, that helped. I looked at, you know, what I was prepared to do. Um, and I was comfortable with lean to, that's another reason just to just quickly reference.

[01:37:56] A lot of people go in on the other side there via Roaring Brook and then chimney because there's access to bunk houses that are actually heated as an option to stay. Um, I know that I'm fine in the cold, so I didn't, I wasn't averse to the lean to situation and yeah, I definitely saved some, some weight, not bringing the tent. And so getting in, um, you know, I didn't see, I saw some snow machines and I saw some people going out, but I didn't see anyone going in when I was going in. I actually encountered a ranger on my way in that said, you know, when I told her who

[01:38:25] I was, she said, Oh, you're the one. And I like, Oh, the one. Okay. Um, and I didn't really think in until I got to the campground and realized there's nobody here. There wasn't even a ranger. The ranger that was stationed at that campground was off. So there was no one even at that station and no other campers. Um, so that was a kind of a, a, a very peaceful, but, but kind of a eyeopening greeting of, yep, it is just me in here. And at least at this point in the, you know, this exact section. Yeah. And you were able to get a fire going.

[01:38:54] Did you have to carry a firewood in with you? I was able to obtain some, some firewood from, you know, at cost from the, uh, the ranger cabin there. Um, and then I was able to collect, uh, you know, some dead and down for some kindling and I did have to shovel the fire pit out. I didn't think about this. Um, logically when I got there, they had assigned me to a specific lean to, and I figured, well, that's, that's where I'm going to go. That's where I'm assigned.

[01:39:22] And that one wasn't shoveled out at least the fire pit area. And a bunch of the other ones were, and rather than just moving my lean to, I figured, no, I'm going to stick with what they gave me, but there was no one else there, which I guess I didn't know for sure. But, um, you know, I went and grabbed, uh, the shovel off the porch of the, uh, the ranger cabin and shoveled out the pit so I could get some airflow and, and, you know, get, get some of the snow and ice out of there. So it wouldn't melt all over the fire. But yeah, that was my first thing is I wanted to get water and fire all set up for my, for my campsite.

[01:39:52] Right. Right. And then did you have any trouble sleeping? Were you too excited to get to bed or were you pretty much exhausted and ready to crash? I was pretty excited. It took me a little while to get to sleep. I was listening to some owl, uh, in the distance and, um, you know, great horned owl was calling and it was actually a nice night. The moon was out, everything was still. And just that, that absolute serene, silent, um, you know, that you can't appreciate until you're in it.

[01:40:19] So between excitement and, and just thinking about, you know, what I was going to do the next day and also a little bit of concern for the weather that I had at that point, because the next day was going to take a little bit of a turn. Uh, it, it took me, I probably didn't get to sleep until maybe after 11. Yeah. That's another thing about the weather. So you're, there's no cell connection out there, I'm assuming. Right. I was shocked that there was a loose one and I couldn't believe it when I, when I had it in the campground, I didn't even think to try it at first.

[01:40:46] I just assumed there'd no way, no other time I've been in Baxter Park if I had really anything, but I could actually send some texts out and I could pull up some stuff very loosely to check updated weather. But, uh, I did make a point to check the updated forecast at the Ranger cabin. And, and unfortunately the best day to hike would have been the day I got in, um, or maybe the day after I hiked, although there was some softening going on. My day had some socked in and some wind going on, which you can get to, but, uh, I did know

[01:41:15] that going in and it was something that, you know, the forecast had changed from a few prior days. So it did kind of dishearten me a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And it's one of those things where you're like, all right, well, I only have the days I have and I've got to make the best of it, but obviously you got to judge whether or not it's safe. But the, so the A ball slide, so you get up in the morning, have your breakfast, have you, have your coffee and the A ball trail to me, it's like, it's a kind of a slide.

[01:41:41] Like to me, I would think that you've got to factor in a little bit of like avalanche concern. Like it's when, when I've hiked it in the summer, it's like not summer in the fall, it's a bit of a loose scree field. Like there's definitely sections there where you, you know, you switch back and forth a bit and it's very steep and not, I would assume in winter conditions, like you do have to factor in that steepness and, you know, have crampons available. And then also keep an eye out to make sure there's no, no avalanche risk.

[01:42:11] Right. And that was something that had kind of weighed into my decision as I was looking, because I did have the campground for a couple nights and it looked like the following day might have been a better opportunity for views and things like that. But there was a drastic warmup coming and I didn't want to deal with a snow pack that was going to be soft, softening and potentially getting more unstable. So the morning when I woke up, I knew that's when I was going to head out. And, you know, I totally was prepared to turn around if I saw something I didn't like, or

[01:42:40] if I hit a time I didn't feel comfortable with continuing on. But I knew that I didn't want to push it to the next day and potentially deal with a snow pack that is essentially had the ability to, to have the sun cooking on it and loosening up because the temperature difference is about to be dramatic from that one day to the next there. Yeah. Yeah. And Katahdin is unique and there's really, I'm trying to think of like, if there's any equivalent in the White Mountain, I mean a little bit of like, if you top out on Huntington

[01:43:08] and you get to the Alpine Garden a little bit around, like, I would say like, if you hike from Lakes of the Cloud over to Bootspur, that's a little bit of a table land there. Like, but there's not, there's not like a table land as big and significant as Katahdin. But essentially what you're doing with A-Ball is you're going up this really steep, I think it's like, I'm just counting the contour lines here.

[01:43:38] You got two, four, six, eight, 10, 12, 14, 16. You get about 2000 feet of climbing, it looks like. And then you top out of the table land section. So can you talk a little bit about like the, the, the top section of the slide as you break above a tree line? Sure. So when you're going up A-Ball, the, you know, the first, I think it's like one seven or 1.9 miles is a steady climb, but you know, you're mostly, you know, you're below tree line at that point. There's nothing too demanding about it.

[01:44:07] And then right around 2.2, you break tree line. And that's when you start getting into, you know, a little bit of the more of the switch back stuff going on. You've got, you know, it does meander back and forth a bit. And then when you get up to, I think it's like right around 4,000 ish feet. That's when you really start to tackle that last bit of the slide. And that's the only part of the hike where I was like, you know, on high alert for the

[01:44:33] sketchy factor, because at this point, you know, I had been in and out of switching between snowshoes into micro spikes, into trail crampons. And this was the section where I'm like, okay, a mistake here could be, could be significant. And it was a lot of, you know, there had been people up in recent times. So there were places where there was, the trail was well-established and there were places where it was wind blown off and, and there wasn't a lot of drifting.

[01:45:01] I actually had a fortunate set of conditions. So I, I didn't have to worry about, you know, crazy drifts or, um, you know, places where it was super hard to navigate. There was, I think one point, um, on table lands, but also one point when I, I got to, um, maybe just below or right around 4,000 feet where I knew that I was, I was kind of heading East and I was going to be taking a turn, turn to the North, Northeast where I did, you know, check my compass because the trail, you know, at that point it was totally

[01:45:31] socked in above that, that, you know, maybe around 3,500 and up, maybe even a little lower. Um, so I really had to, to pay attention to my bearings and that slide that, I mean, that's significant. I mean, I could see how, um, there was a report on, on the weather report of the cabin that the avalanche damage was, uh, danger was considered low and there wasn't, you know, any notable risk for, for the time I was there, but I could see under the right conditions, you know, I'm not as familiar with Katahdin and how the wind loading sets up on that side.

[01:45:59] Like I would be on say Washington, but you know, under the right conditions, there would definite avalanche damage in that slide from, you know, right around 4,000 feet up to like, like 4,600, I think before the table lands kick in. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a, there is a feature on the side. I don't know if you saw it or not, but there's a diving board, um, you call it. So there's like this, this rock that sticks out and like in the summertime, it's, it's not that bad. You can walk out on it, but I don't know if I'd go out there in the, in a solo winter hike, but yeah, there's some cool features.

[01:46:29] I was tempted, but no, I, I, I definitely didn't, um, definitely didn't, uh, wet the whistle on that. Yeah, no, good call. Good call. And then, so you, you make it up to the table lands and then it's, it's longer than you think, but it's not super long, maybe a half a mile or so. And you're, you're walking kind of in this, you know, you're going up a little bit, but eventually you're just, you're looking for the, the, the iconic wooden, Katahdin sign, right? Right.

[01:46:55] You know, when you, once you get to the junction of Hunt and Abel, uh, it does get very gradual at that point for a bit. And it kind of lulls you into a little bit of a false sense of security that you're pretty much almost there. But then when the trail turns, um, Northeast from more of an easterly, um, when it comes up to, to Baxter peak for that last little push, you do start to gain some, some elevation again. And at that point you're kind of beat, or at least I was. And, uh, you know, you almost think that when you get to that first part of the table lands

[01:47:23] there, that the summit is, is, is just around the corner. But, you know, this is another place where I checked my compass. Cause I remembered, you know, looking at my map, all right, I'm going to turn Northeast, um, for the final push here. And I've got some more elevation gain to do. And sure enough, it, it, it beat me up pretty good going up that last bit. Cause I was a little wiped. Right. Right. Yeah. And it's, um, it is a, when you get visibility, like the views are incredible.

[01:47:51] Like I've been up there in the fall where I had like, you know, a hundred mile visibility and it's just, it's just insane, but you're dealing with like low visibility. So, you know, Hey, it's a winter hike, you know, it's like, we talked about this before I think we started recording. We were like, you know, well, I don't go out if the weather's not great. But in this case, you know, if it's, if it's Baxter, then you, you get notes. Yeah. This was the exception. And oddly, out of all the times I've been in Baxter, uh, or at least I've been on Katahdin,

[01:48:18] um, you know, I had some mixed conditions on, on North brother, but at the times I've been on, on Katahdin, this was the worst in terms of view. I've had incredible luck on my, all my summer and, and, you know, fall ascends on Katahdin. This was the one, you know, socked in when I had, so I guess I can't really count myself that I'm lucky in that, in that sense. Right. Right. So, and then, uh, how much time did you spend on the summit? And what was the state of the sign? Was it buried or was it, was it, uh, uh, no, it wasn't buried.

[01:48:45] It was actually, uh, it was had a bit of rhyme on it that I brushed off and it wasn't like, you know, I've seen people's pictures sometimes where, you know, it's drifted in pretty good because, you know, being, having been there in, in, in the non-winter, I know, you know, it's a pretty formidable sign, you know, it's got some height to it. And, you know, you could tell that there was a packed layer of crusty snow that had diminished the height of the sign, but it wasn't buried up at all. And I beat some of the rhyme off so I could, you know, get my quick picture. And then I, I headed out of there.

[01:49:14] Winds were, I mean, they weren't super high, but they were probably going between 35 and maybe 50. So it wasn't wonderful. And that in conjunction with the fact that I was solo and that it was, you know, um, socked in, there wasn't a lot to take in. And it was kind of a tag and, and, and get headed back down within pretty quick succession. Yeah. And you wouldn't have wanted to go over the, uh, the knife edge in those windy conditions anyway. So it ended up like the route ended up being like, at least it was achievable that you could get to the summit that way. Right. Yeah.

[01:49:44] The, the out and back, you know, from this side is pretty straightforward. Um, you know, the, the knife edge is, is probably my favorite trail that I've ever hiked, but, um, you know, the siren of, of a winter knife edge traverse is something that I'll look into, but definitely not something that I was, you know, that I'm quite ready for yet, nor would I have even attempted on a day like this, even if it was something that was, there's an, that was in the plan. Yeah. And I think that for the listeners, so if you're, I wouldn't say this in the winter,

[01:50:12] but if you are, um, if you do go to Baxter and you're going to hike Katahdin, I would recommend if you do, if you do stay at the Abel campsite or campground, I would recommend planning to do the same route to go up the Abel, Abel trail, Abel slide. But then if the weather's good, then, um, hitting Hamlin is like a no brainer because you, you walk back across the table lands and it's sort of the equivalent of like, I would

[01:50:42] say it's very similar to like the lower part of the Gulf side trail, um, as it traverses like the, um, King ravine in Mount Adams. It's sort of like that vibe, a little bit longer distance, you know, sort of like also think of like maybe boot spur hiking over to, um, like lion's head. That's kind of like what you're doing. Um, similar, you're just basically traversing a big ravine and, um, but the views are incredible

[01:51:10] the whole way you look down into that, like chimney pond area and, uh, it's definitely great. And it's, it's a, it's not that much elevation gain. You know, you drip dip down, I think maybe 400 feet and then climb back up about another 400. So, um, and then you just come across, you can do, you can do a cutoff trail or you can just follow back over to the, uh, the other summit and come back down. But in the, in the better conditions, I think that that's a, that double it up for sure on Baxter and Hamlin peaks. Right. Yeah.

[01:51:38] You get another, uh, main 4k that way. And, and yeah, the views are just incredible. Like I did Hamlin for the first time semi-recently in a fall trip. And, you know, we went up, um, Hamlin Ridge from chimney and, you know, for a sunrise and first light on Hamlin, that, that was just gorgeous, just breathtaking experience. And then, you know, hike, uh, over from Hamlin to Baxter peak, you know, you're walking that ridge line.

[01:52:04] You've got, like you said, that, that stark view looking down, uh, into chimney pond and it's a, it's a pretty, you know, you've got some game, but it's a pretty gradual push, uh, up to Baxter peak at that point. And then you got your choice to come down, you know, like something like saddle or, or something if you're going on that side. So yeah, Hamlin, you know, highly recommend hit Hamlin if you're there, because why not? You know, that's, especially if you've got the view in your pocket to be able to have.

[01:52:31] Yeah. Yeah. And it's a, um, yeah, it's definitely a bucket list trip. I think anybody that if you've done your 4,000 footers and you're looking for a new challenge, like the get out there to Baxter, um, but just getting back to your hike. So then you head down, was the, was the climb down the trail, was it sketchier than going up or did you feel pretty comfortable at that point? Yes. I definitely was a lot slower going down, at least for that first part. Once I, you know, got back to the junction with hunt and going down that, that first, you know, piece of the slide

[01:53:00] there. And, um, once I got to the section that switched back more, I was a little more confident. Um, and I, you know, that's when I was thrown back on, you know, as I call my rock spikes, but that first bit of coming down is, is definitely where I took my time a bit. And I was like, okay, I'm going to be very methodical about this. There's no room for error. I'm not going to rush. Um, you know, I'm going to do some sidestepping. I'm going to, you know, assess my foot placement

[01:53:27] before I do it. And, you know, really think about it. Uh, whereas I, I kind of got a little sigh of relief once I started to get down to that, those switchback sections. Cause I was like, okay, I know from here, I'm going to be fine as long as I don't, you know, make a, you know, a weird, uh, decision. So I think that that was probably the, the most mentally exhausting part of the hike was coming down that, that pitch there, uh, below the table lands. Yeah. And I haven't been in the

[01:53:53] winter, but I can tell you that, um, I do, it's kind of burned into my memory, how like nice and peaceful it is. Once you, once the trail starts reconnecting with the A ball stream, then that's a nice, beautiful part of the forest. Like it's, it opens up a little bit and I can imagine it must have been like just so peaceful and quiet walking back. Yeah. That, that, um, experience of coming, you know, basically seeing no one on trail all day, having that pristine wilderness to myself,

[01:54:21] it was really grounding. And it really gave me an opportunity to connect with a beautiful wild space that means a lot to me and being able to do it in a way where I'm supporting myself. And I'm, I'm, uh, using skills I've acquired and, you know, actualizing a dream I've had, you know, I've kind of, some people look at the, and I definitely looked at it this way. Winter hiking, um, Katahdin seems inaccessible because it's this, it's all these hoops you got

[01:54:47] to jump through, you know, you got to do the permit, you got to, you know, you got to go winter parking and then hike in on the tote road and all this stuff. And I think for a long time, I looked at it and I said, Oh, that seems like a lot of work. I'll stick to doing it in the summer, but I'm really glad I bit this off and, and, and, you know, took on this challenge of doing it in the winter because just that austere and, and stark beauty of, of Katahdin in the winter and, and being able to be out there in a place that, I mean, I love the whites, the whites are my home,

[01:55:15] but there's something about Katahdin. There's something about Baxter park that is a world onto itself and it has a different feel. And anyone that's been there, I think they'll agree that, you know, geologically very similar, but it just has this different feel and that, that that's had always had a pull for me. Yeah. Yeah. So it's quite an accomplishment. Then when you got back to camp, um, the, you, I'm assuming your plan was that you were going to stay over another night and then haul out in the morning, but you should have, you called an audible.

[01:55:42] I did. I, I actually, once I got down, especially below treeline, I was cooking. I mean, I was, for me, I was blazing down the trail, so I made pretty good time. And when I got back to camp, the combination of factors led me to think, well, nothing stopping me from, from hiking back out the, uh, the tow road and back to winter parking and just cutting my trip early. So what are you thinking? Like three, two and a half hours, maybe three hours tops to get out. Oh, to get out. Yeah. It was like two and a half, maybe two. So it wasn't bad. So I knew it

[01:56:10] wasn't going to be a lot and I knew the warmup was coming. So at this point on my way down, things had already begun to soften and I had to use snowshoes in areas that I didn't on the way up as things, you know, really loosened up. So I was thinking, well, same thing's going to happen, even though it's a little more packed and groomed on the tow road, I don't want to be, you know, punching through stuff and, and, you know, sweating on the way out. So let me, let me get going. And I knew that golden road too, that was going to turn into a mud bowl the next

[01:56:38] day. So if I stayed another night, you know, maybe my, my car travel would be a little more interesting as well. So number of factors I said, all right, I'm going to, I'm going to call it early. I made sure to sign out and make it clear, you know, left early date time, you know, to no one, if, you know, they came across the log, they weren't like, well, where's this guy, you know, where's this camper at? So there's a couple of places, you know, you sign out at the ranger station at a ball. And then there's a, a basically a sign in on the connector trail when

[01:57:06] you're coming from winter parking before you get into the tow road, there's a kiosk where you can, you know, sign in and out there as well. Nice. Well, congratulations. And I've got my old GPS route from the, the Baxter Hamlin that I'll include in the show notes. And then I'll put some additional information in the show notes about Katahdin, how you can sign up for a permit in the,

[01:57:31] the winter season, as well as getting a permit in the regular season. And I think my suggestion for people is if you can go midweek, that's probably a good option, but I've done it in the fall. I've never really gone in the summertime. I don't know how the bugs are, but I feel like if you get a chance, like you should get this on your list and get up there. Absolutely. It's like I said, it has this allure to it and it's, it's geographically so interesting with the, just the way the terrain is

[01:57:58] on Baxter. And, and, and if you've never been to Chimney Pond, just looking up at, at, at Katahdin from that vantage point of, of Chimney Pond, it takes your breath away. You know, I, I can't, you know, recommend it enough to people that this is something if, if you are passionate about a really wild space, cause it has that more wild feel. It, it, there's a controlled access of Baxter. It's a little more remote. Um, you know, it's kind of that next level up of, you know,

[01:58:28] if you've done your New Hampshire 4ks and you're, and you're loving that, go hit your main 4ks. And, and, and when you go to Baxter park, try to hit, you know, the brothers as well, because while you're up there, you can get those and, um, you know, make a, make a whole trip out of it. It's just beautiful country there. Yeah. Well, congratulations on getting out there solo. You're a braver man than I am, but I'll be knocking on your door when I plan my trip, but we've, uh, we're hitting time here. So I had some national stories I was going to cover, but we'll push those to the next episode.

[01:58:57] Andy, are you coming back again? Like you've had your chance to do the co-hosting. Did I scare you or are you going to come back in the future? I would love to be back. I, I think, you know, this is something that, that really, you know, tickles a sense in me that, that, that, um, it's fulfilling. I like this. So if you would be so kind, I would, I would love to return and, and, uh, hit up some more co-hosting in the future for sure. Yeah, definitely. So thank you so much. And, uh, yeah, you're going to co-host this. I'm going to have to let me drive one of those

[01:59:25] engines one of these days. So I think we can do it a fair trade, um, you know, a little, uh, you know, get me a microphone and then I'll get you some seat time in the engine. That's a deal. That's a deal. All right. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed the show, you can subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, pod beam, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you want to learn more about the

[01:59:53] topics covered in today's show, please check out the show notes and safety information at slasher podcast.com. That's S L A S R podcast.com. You can also follow the show on Facebook, and Instagram. We hope you'll join us next week for another great show until then on behalf of Mike

[02:00:14] and stop, get out there and crush some mega peace. Now covered in scratches, blisters, and bug bites. Chris staff wanted to complete his most challenging day hike ever. Fish and game officers say the hiker from Florida activated an emergency beacon yesterday morning. He was hiking along the Appalachian trail when the weather started to get worse. Officials say the snow

[02:00:40] was piled up to three feet in some spots and there was a wind chill of minus one degree. And there's three words to describe this race. Do we all know who they are? Lieutenant James Neeland, New Hampshire fish and game. Lieutenant, thanks for being with us today. Thanks for having me. What are some of the most common mistakes you see people make when they're heading out on the trails to hike here in New Hampshire? Seems to me the most common is being unprepared. I think if they just simply visited hikesafe.com

[02:01:09] and got a list of the 10 essential items and had those in their packs, they probably would have no need to ever call us at all.