Episode 231 - Welcome Dann Van Der Vliet, Highlighting the Adirondacks, Search and Rescue spike in April

[00:00:08] Here is the latest Higher Summits forecast brought to you by our friends at the Mount Washington Observatory. Weather above treeline in the White Mountains is often wildly different than at our trailheads. Before you hike, check the Higher Summits forecast at mountwashington.org.

[00:00:31] Weather observers working at the non-profit Mount Washington Observatory write this elevation-based forecast every morning and afternoon. Search and Rescue teams, avalanche experts, and backcountry guides all rely on the Higher Summits forecast to anticipate weather conditions above treeline.

[00:00:51] You should too. Go to mountwashington.org or text FORECAST to 603-356-2137. Hello listeners! Nick here with your forecast for the weekend of May 2nd, 2026. Friday. Mostly in the clouds, trending towards in and out of the clouds under partly cloudy skies.

[00:01:20] Slight chance of snow showers in the morning. Possible additional snow accumulations but traced to less than 1 inch. High in the upper 20s. Wind northwest shifting west at 40-55 mph with gusts up to 65 mph decreasing to 25-40 mph. Windchill rising to 5-15 and above. Friday night. In and out of the clouds, trending into the clouds under increasingly cloudy skies. Chance of snow showers after midnight. Possible additional snow accumulations but traced to 1 inch.

[00:01:47] Low around 20. Wind west shifting southwest at 25-40 mph early, 15-30 mph midnight, and 20-35 mph around sunrise. Windchill falling to 0-10 mph. And Saturday. Mostly in the clouds with a chance of snow showers. Possible additional snow accumulations of a trace to 1 inch. High in the mid-20s. Wind southwest shifting west at 20-35 mph, decreasing to 5-15 mph. Windchill rising to 10-20 mph.

[00:02:14] So, looking a little snowy up on the rock pile this weekend. Happy hiking. Stay safe. Go crush some peaks.

[00:02:21] A casting from the Woodpecker Studio in the great live free or die state of New Hampshire.

[00:03:00] Welcome to the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast. Where we discuss all things related to hiking and search and rescue in the White Mountains of New Hampshire and beyond. Here are your hosts, Mike and Nick.

[00:03:17] All right, Dan. You are on the record now, so be ready. Ready. Have you ever done a podcast before? Yeah, I used to host one for work and I've been on a few others. You really did? Were you the primary host? Yeah. What was the topic?

[00:03:48] It was family business, which is what I do at Cornell. And we would usually talk with business owners around various family business topics. Okay. That's fine. Did you do the production stuff too? It was pretty low production. Yeah. It was, a lot of this was during COVID, right? When everybody was just looking for things to do and make some content. Right. We kept it going for about a year after, but it's a lot of work. I really admire what you guys do. Right. Yeah. It's something.

[00:04:15] Eventually it does become pretty routine, but yeah, it is a lot of work, especially in the beginning to just set everything up. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. What do I need to do to get a family business? I think I would, I don't think I'd survive with my kids personally. That's usually how I preface when I'm talking about family business. I'm like, I couldn't ever work with my brother. Um, it's, uh, it's pretty remarkable. I mean, it's a, it's fun work cause I do get to deal with a lot of really interesting people.

[00:04:42] That's the whole basis of the trip we take to, um, Italy is just visiting these family businesses that are a hundred, 200 years old. Just to learn how they, uh, how they operate. So, yeah, I mean, there's definitely a lot of family owned businesses that are successful and it's, it's an interesting dynamic. I worked at a restaurant that was family owned and the, the dynamic from one generation to the next, especially when the spouses started getting involved, it gets, it gets complicated for sure. Yeah.

[00:05:10] Well, anyway, but Nick, maybe, um, maybe someday you can, you can get a family business going. I don't know. It's funny. I worked in a pizza place growing up that was all family, uh, from Greece and yeah, it's a, it was, it was complicated to say the least. My, my cousin was kind of the, uh, the out of family person that ended up kind of helping take over the business and watching that from the outside unfold over like 15, 20 years was pretty, uh, pretty interesting. Yeah. But he's, it's worked out well for him. So there's some crazy stories. You can't. I bet.

[00:05:40] All right. Well, we'll plug that. We'll plug the other podcast. Maybe we'll get some people to listen, but, but right now we have some witty banter to begin the episode. So I have some notes here, Nick. I noticed that you haven't really been slowing down on your hiking since, uh, since the baby was, was born. I've got to hand it to either. You've got either your shirk and your duties are actually super nice and gives you permission. So I don't know which, which is, which is, maybe it's, maybe it's both. Yeah. I mean, you get that with the family too, which is good. Yeah.

[00:06:07] Slash taking Rylan out to the blue hills and stuff, but yeah, lately it's been, well, had some holidays lately too, which has been nice. So, but yeah, I've, I'm not disagreeing with you. Ashley is amazing. So Nick has been, uh, he's been out all over the place. He's going to see like my kids like homeless somewhere and be like, where's Nick? He's out. Okay. Yeah. So it's all about balance. You've got the right balance right now. So, which is good. And then, uh, I also wanted to give a shout out to any listeners that ran the Boston Marathon. It's Marathon Monday that just came up. So we're recording on a Tuesday.

[00:06:37] So yesterday was Patriot's Day, which is a current, uh, commemorative holiday that celebrates the, the battle of Lexington and Concord, which happened on April 19th, 1775. There's one of the battle called, um, mononomy, which is an Arlington, but I can't pronounce that word. So I'm not going to say it because we get listeners that make fun of my pronunciations, but, uh, but right on Hereford left on Boylston. Congratulations to the runners. Also congratulations to the Red Sox won as well.

[00:07:07] So then that means summer is arriving early this year and the Red Sox, I've just made that up, but I'm going to go with that. So basically the groundhog day signal, if the Red Sox win on Patriots day, that means summer begins early. Let's do it. I like, I like that. Just not this week cause it's still pretty cold out. True. True. Yeah. Well, it doesn't seem to be carrying out. You're right. It is too cold and it looks like we're going to get rain next week, but anyway, summer's coming. We can feel it. So, um, welcome to episode two 31 of the sounds like a search and rescue podcast.

[00:07:37] This week we are joined by our friend, Dan Vander Vliet. So Dan is an accomplished hiker focusing on the entire Northeast region, been all over the world too. He's got some, some other stories. So he brings a lot of knowledge, not only in the white mountains, but across Vermont, the Adirondacks and all over the place. So we're friends. We went hiking and Dan has said like, look, you need to give the Adirondacks a little bit more love. So we're here to give the Adirondacks their, their, their rose tonight, which would be good.

[00:08:02] I think my exact quote is whenever you talk about the Adirondacks, you make me uncomfortable. Right. Right. So I don't really, I don't really talk about them. I qualify. He means Mike. When Mike talks about the Adirondacks, he feels uncomfortable. I just want to call that out. I knew I've been to the Adirondacks. That would make sense. So anyway, but welcome Dan. So we're going to learn all about the Adirondacks tonight. And then we've had a recap of the live mountain wanderer show from last week.

[00:08:28] We'll recap the 4,000 footer award ceremony that none of us attended, but we'll talk a little bit about that. I have a game to play for Nick and Dan that they're going to have to be on their toes tonight and, and, and think spontaneously. Uh, spring weather with search and rescue calls over the weekend on Mount Washington, Rocky Branch Trail and falling waters. All Massachusetts people shame on us, I guess, but it is what it is.

[00:08:52] We've got breaking Dave shits in the woods news and update on his Appalachian trail progress, including ponies. We've got New Hampshire news, including the ice out squam trail updates, tips for mud season and river crossings. We've got national hiking news. Plus we've got gear talk. We've got North Carolina talk. We've got a music minute. We've got dad jokes. And then we have recent hikes on gray lock, moose lock, blue Hills and bald peaks, bald peak and kinsman's. So I'm Mike. And I'm Nick.

[00:09:22] Let's get started. And I'm also out of breath after that. I was going to say, I was like, is he going to run out of oxygen? I was impressed that your lung capacity. Let's get started. I have, um, and I just violated, but I have little sticky notes tonight. No arms and no, no, no arms.

[00:09:52] So I'm going to try not to do any, but why don't you start off Nick with the Alzheimer's association? 48 peaks. Sure. Use your passion for hiking and Alzheimer's join 400 plus hikers as they climb New Hampshire's 4,000 footers or create their own challenge to support the mission of the Alzheimer's association. The annual hiker celebration will be Saturday, June 13th at ledge brewing with raffles food and an amazing community.

[00:10:15] Like that weekend or any day you want this summer, no fundraising minimums, but those who raise $125 will receive the annual performance grade t-shirt and a ticket for the hiker celebration. Let's turn the white mountains purple to end alls. Visit alls.org slash 48 peaks to learn more. And if you want to join the slasher team hiking Mount Adams on June 13th, we'll have a link in the show notes. Should be a good time getting redundant at this point. I think I keep saying that we'll all, we'll all be there. Maybe Dan will even join us or some other folks, but, uh, it should be a really fun day.

[00:10:43] Dan, what do we have to do to get you to join our slasher Alzheimer's team? Yeah, I did consider it. It's just that date. Um, I'll still be in Ithaca with some work responsibilities, but I would love to do that. All right. Well, we'll get you out. Uh, my plan. Okay. That's good. I'll hit you up. But my, uh, my plan B is to invite you to hike the bald faces with us. And then I'm going to just happen to, to bring a set of loppers for you to help me with my trail. Like, oh, that's weird.

[00:11:10] I have an extra set here and this trail needs to be groomed. Um, all right. And then, uh, let's talk about reckless Nick a little bit. Sure. So reckless brewing company for those who spend their days navigating the granite peaks and unpredictable weather of the white mountains. The trail truly doesn't end at the parking lot. It ends at reckless brewing company located in the heart of Bethlehem. Reckless serves as the unofficial headquarters for the tired, the muddy and the bold. It's where trail stories are swapped over a massive menu of mountain size meals and pints of crap beer brewed for the North country soul.

[00:11:40] When the hike is over and the gear is stowed, reckless is where the adventure truly settles in reckless brewing company. The finish line for every white mountains trek that, uh, that ad read always makes me want a beer and want like a cheeseburger at the same time. It does. That's a great ad copy. It is. It is. And we, um, we have to get them on Nick soon to talk about the summer event. Yeah, definitely. Rick fest coming up. Yeah. So we'll, we'll work on that as well, but, um, all right. So moving on, we've got some topics here.

[00:12:07] So we want to recap the, the show that we did at mountain wanderer. So Nick, I think you had written in here that you wanted to give out some thank yous, right? Yeah, we, we did a little post. I think stomp. I technically did it, but, um, didn't we just want to say thanks again to all the listeners and everybody who kind of came out on the 11th? Um, Randy from enjoy Woodstock did a great job. We had him out forest and Caroline, of course, of the mountain wanderer. And then we wanted to thank Woodstock and in brewery. And we haven't met the owner, which was pretty neat, um, for putting on the operate pod event.

[00:12:37] It was a great time. Um, had a lot of fun and hopefully we can do it again. Um, and I also wanted to shout out to, uh, thanks forest for letting me hang some of my photography up at the mountain wanderer. So if, um, anybody sees prints there, you can actually purchase them. And I do want to shout out in general. I think a lot of people know I do photography on the side, but if you're ever interested any of the prints or anything you see on Instagram, just reach out. Cause I do that for people. Yeah. We, I put your Instagram on the show notes.

[00:13:04] So if anybody wants to reach out, they can reach out through the podcast, but they can also hit you up on Instagram. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not good at shameless plugs all the time, but I've been told that I probably should do it more often. So Dan, you get it. Every time you hike with Nick, it's, it's like a photography session. He comes back. You didn't, you didn't get me with the camera that day that we hiked together. Cause it just was like, yeah, that was not going to happen. There wasn't much to say. Although you did get that one great shot. I think of us kind of walking away, which is pretty epic. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, but yeah, Nick is a great photographer.

[00:13:33] Matter of fact, I have, I took your, the calendar from last year, the photo of, uh, Adams in Washington and I cut that out and framed it. Oh, nice. Excellent. That's the one with you in it. Yeah. Yeah. That was a cool. Of course. Why wouldn't, or that would be the reason I framed it. Yeah. You didn't make, you didn't make the calendar this year. Yeah. I got to work on that. I think me and you did some nice photos of me and Jake on bill naps. Maybe we can. Yeah. Yeah. I got some good shots of you guys. That was a beautiful day. We'll see. But if I have a pro hiker tip to share, it's bring a professional photographer with you

[00:14:03] on every hike. That's Nick. Nick is the, we have, we have Andy. Yeah. I was going to say you guys have Andy, right? Yeah. He's a real professional photographer. I don't do it full time. That's right. Cause you guys were talking shop a little bit on the, on the right up to. Yeah. Yeah. I checked out his website and everything after, but he's, he's legit. I did get asked actually to do a wedding around Winnipesaukee in the summer, but I'm actually going to a wedding on the same day. So I thought that was kind of cool. I was like, I've never been asked before. So I'll take that as a good sign. Good start. That's high risk, high reward though. I just, I would be stressed. It is.

[00:14:33] I would have asked my, my buddy who does it a little bit too, to help me out. Um, but I'm busy on the date. I have my, my, my sister-in-law is getting married. So I don't think that would go over too well. When my kids eventually get married, Nick, I will, uh, I'll, I'll think of you. Thanks. I'll, I'll let you do it for free so you can get practice. You'll get a great deal. Yeah. These are awful, but yeah, but we didn't have to pay anything. Steak or chicken, Nick? He's a good guy. All right.

[00:15:02] But yeah, thank you for four to Forrest and Randy and Caroline and, uh, and Woodstock and brewery. It was a great day. So, and Nick, what was your, what was your takeaway from the live episode? Were you nervous or did we, you, were you getting like kind of used to doing this live stuff? Uh, I was, I was a little nervous at first. I think I'm getting more used to it. I'd like to think anyways. I think once we settled in after like 10, 15 minutes, I was kind of good. It was just a good, different vibe. Like I said, then like full conditions, it's kind of like we were on our own stage and we

[00:15:31] were like not within everybody. I did really enjoy getting to like the amount of people there was such, and I thought it was nice that we could kind of like, I got around and chatted kind of with everybody and met everybody, which was really cool. So I kind of feel like it would have been impossible to like shake everybody's hand in full conditions, so to speak, and kind of chat. Like people were just going their different ways, but I really enjoyed kind of connecting with people. And for some reason there was like three or four people that were from Rhode Island there, which I thought was kind of cool that you don't see that happening all the time with the Rhode Islanders up in New Hampshire. Congratulations, Nick. I'm glad you found your people.

[00:16:00] I was proud of them. You found your people. Proud of them. All right. Well, I also want to give a shout out to all the award winners at the AMC 4000 Footer Club ceremonies that happened last week. Dan was supposed to be there for a winter award, but it was not in the cards. We'll be there next year for you, Dan. Way to take a shot. Yeah. We'll talk about that later on too, but congratulations to everybody.

[00:16:25] And then I wanted to give a plug to the AMC 4000 Footer Club Committee. So we weren't able to make it. I had to go to North Carolina this weekend, and I think Stomp had something. And Nick's been out hiking like crazy. He's got dad duty, so it wasn't possible. But a shout out to the AMC 4000 Footer Committee for organizing this. And also wanted to give a plug. So Brian Myville, who is part of the committee, had posted on the 4000 Footer Group that Gary

[00:16:53] Tompkin, so thank you, Gary, for the years of service here. He has chosen to retire, and he's going to be stepping down to enjoy some traveling and exploring. So the committee wished him well in his future travels and wanted to thank him for his dedication. But that leaves the committee with a position open to fill. So it looks like this position. So if you want to apply to be on the AMC 4000 Footer Club Committee and join the volunteer ranks, you can do so. The position is register for the awards ceremony dinner.

[00:17:23] So you'd be responsible for handling dinner reservations by tracking and organizing incoming data, providing timely updates to guide purchasing of food and drinks, and handling check deposits. So if you want a volunteer opportunity and you're passionate about the AMC 4000 Footer Club and you want to help out with the awards night dinner and making that a success, then you can go ahead and apply here. The minimum requirement is having completed the New Hampshire 48 list and have the ability

[00:17:52] to attend the two to three committee meetings per year, as well as the awards ceremony. So I'll put this in the show notes. And if anybody's interested, if you get a logistical background, it sounds like, and an events background, it sounds like this would be a good fit. I feel like that's right up your alley, Mike. It is. I got too much going on though, Nick. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like if it was like five years from now, I feel like you'd be all over that. Yeah. I think so. I think so. My kids are giving me a run for the money right now. So, all right.

[00:18:21] So what else do we have here? Oh, I have a game to play. I have a game to play. So Dan, I'm going to have you go first. So I want you to, and I was thinking, the reason I was thinking about this is there was a post on the Reddit group, which I, the Reddit group is very mean, but somebody had made a comment about Lincoln Woods closing and somebody was like, you know, the Eastside trail needs to get some more love. And I thought to myself, I'm going to do the Eastside trail and I'm going to, I'm going

[00:18:48] to, I'm going to ditch a bike at the Hancock trailhead. And then I'm going to go down to Lincoln Woods and I'm going to take the Eastside trail and I'm going to loop around to whatever that is, Cedar Brook or something. And then I'm going to come up the arrow slide on the Hancocks and then come back down and come out and then take my bike down to Lincoln Woods. So I thought like, that's a unique and new hike that I'm going to do. So I wanted to challenge both of you to just tell me your plans for the summer that involve hiking something new or unique.

[00:19:18] So Dan, you go first. This is your moment. Let me know what, what you can think of off the top of your head. Wow. And this is a game. I thought, uh, I thought this was gonna be more quiz like. I mean, it's a quiz. It's a game quiz. If it's a wrong mention, he's just going to bash you down and be like, that's a stupid idea. Yeah. Well, I would say two things. One, I have been a section hiking the Finger Lakes trail in New York state. So I split my time between Ithaca and Wareham mass when I'm in Ithaca.

[00:19:47] It's pretty flat out there. Um, but the Finger Lakes trail is a subset of the, uh, North country national scenic trail. Um, Finger Lakes trails about 450 miles. It goes from the border of, um, Pennsylvania all the way through to, um, uh, the Catskills. So I've been doing out and back section. So I just go by myself, park a car, hike out about, you know, five, six, seven miles and then turn around and come back.

[00:20:15] So I'm essentially yo-yoing, uh, and section hiking the Finger Lakes trail. I'm about 400 miles in. So that's about 200 miles of trail. Um, so I have some time that I'll be in Ithaca this summer and I want to continue that. Um, and, uh, and then the other will be actually in the Berkshires. I've never hiked in the Berkshires. I was really envious of the hike, uh, that Nick took. I think that was on Good Friday, uh, up Greylock and doing that really big loop.

[00:20:43] Um, we have tickets to go see James Taylor, um, uh, July 3rd and we'll be up there for three days. So I want to do, want to do Greylock, although, um, you know, I've done the, uh, long trail, although it doesn't necessarily go over Greylock, but it picks up pretty close to that. Um, so I'd love to do some work, uh, down, uh, in the Berkshires and get around in there. And then a real push would be the, uh, Taconic Crest Trail, which is about a 39 mile trail,

[00:21:11] uh, which is sort of, um, kind of Western mass, uh, Southern Vermont, I think, um, could probably do that in about three days or so. Um, so I've wanted to do that for a little while would be a good little kind of weekend, uh, getaway. So those would be the top three. The FLT will definitely happen. Definitely some hikes in the Berkshires. We'll see if we can squeeze in the Taconic Crest. All right. Those are good answers that you, you did well. You score, I'll give you a 97 score on that. A hundred. Very good.

[00:21:41] So, and then James Taylor, have you ever seen James Taylor in concert before? I have not. Um, I saw Rod Stewart this summer and he was much better than I thought he would be. Um, he brings his daughter out, right? Is it, was his daughter playing with him at that point or maybe she just does special guests? Yeah, I don't recall, but for 84, uh, that guy moved around and sounded great. And, uh, I know JT still sounds great as well. And, you know, he's sort of a, an institution and definitely a legend here in mass.

[00:22:08] And I feel like sort of seeing him out on his home turf and in the Berkshires on July 3rd will be amazing. Yeah. Is that where he's from? Um, I don't know if he's originally from there, but he definitely has like some roots there. Okay. No kidding. Yeah. I wasn't aware of that. Yeah. He had, I think my recollection is I think that he went to, so the whole story with James Taylor is that he was in like a, a mental hospital.

[00:22:33] And he was with like some friend and he ended up going to, I think London and then came back to Massachusetts, found out that one of his friends had died in, that he had been in the mental institute. She had died and that's who he wrote that song, fire and rain about was his friend.

[00:22:58] She had jumped in front of a train and he had had a group that was, um, what was the name of the, um, flying machines was the name of the group that he had. So that's why I was flying machines on the ground. That was basically him talking about how his band fell apart. And I think he was out in the Berkshires and then made his way out to the vineyard or Nantucket or something like that. But he definitely has connections to Massachusetts. He was born in Boston. He was. Okay.

[00:23:28] Yeah. And then I think a lot of his form formative years were in, um, North Carolina. Yes, that's right. That's right. So, yeah. So that'll be exciting. I've seen him many times. Matter of fact, I was looking at tickets in New Hampshire, but they only had lawn seats. And I was kind of like, I don't know if my wife would be down for that, but I may, I may poke around and see what tickets look like for out in Western Mass. That would be fun. Nice. Excellent. All right, Nick, now you're up. So something unique. Um, got a couple of different hiking plans.

[00:23:58] One thing that I've been thinking of for a while, and I have no idea the stats on this or whatever, but it just seems like it'd be cool to do, um, is linking going basically from like West. White face past the Conaway, that side of the Juana Lancet range all the way over to Chikura and kind of do like the entire formal sandwich range. Um, I guess minus the tries or maybe include the tries in that, but that's something I've kind of thought is like a, I feel like you don't see people doing that too much. It's probably like 20 to 30 miles.

[00:24:23] And I'm guessing it's probably in the ballpark of like a Prezi or something like that, except you're ending with like a pretty good climb up Chikura. But that whole like area past Pogas, which is it like the, I think it's the beeline trail that connects like where Pogas chops off. Yep. It's Chikura. Um, I think that's something I am. I'm going to be also, I haven't mentioned on the podcast, but I, it did sign up for the 25 K, um, race in the Kilkenny range back in September. So I'll be doing that. Um, I was going to hop in more mileage, but, um, kind of just wanted to see if I liked that first.

[00:24:53] And then my cousin is crazy and signed up for, um, should say my cousin's husband, Jay, who I've done the Pemi loop and stuff with. He actually signed up for the Jigger Johnson 50 and I'm planning on hopefully helping him to pace out the final 20 ish miles of that, which I think involves basically going up the Osceola is through to Waterville Valley. So, um, that'll probably be a pretty interesting and doing it, I think at night or later in the afternoon and night. So, um, that's just some stuff that I know I have planned coming up, but, uh, we'll see what else happens. All right.

[00:25:23] Well, you, you get a 95 next. So Dan, you win, you win the game here. So, but that's good. As a matter of fact, I, the, that Chikura across white face and even like Kate sleeper out to try pyramids. I was reading, I actually had a history segment in the, in the can that I was going to do on this guy, Charles Fay, who was like a long time president of the AMC. He had done like a traverse from Chikura over to white face in, in a day. But back then there were, I don't think all the trails were connected.

[00:25:53] So they went down the Brook trail and then I think they had to bushwhack up to Pogus and then make their way through like square ledge and pass a Conway. But he had written, written a whole detailed trip report from like 1885 or something like that. So I'll send it to you, Nick, and you can, you can recreate it. But I've always thought it would be interesting to try to do maybe an overnight from Chikura to the tri pyramids and out Livermore or vice versa, either direction. Yeah. Yeah. That could be cool.

[00:26:22] It's, it seems like it'd be interesting to do. I think where I first, not that nobody's had that idea, but, um, I was actually Kura Lake earlier in the spring last year and got some photos from that. And, um, you could see her mirror reflection pretty perfectly. Um, if you look West and North, basically of the whole like sandwich range with, you don't have the tries in there, but you can see the whole bowl of white face past the Conway Pogus over to Chikura. And I'm like that actually, you can kind of see the ridgeline. It's, you know, that seemed like it would just be cool to try that. I'm sure it doesn't get a lot of traffic between Pogus and Chikura either. I don't think so.

[00:26:52] I don't think so. Um, all right. Well, moving on. So you guys did excellent in that. Dan, Dan, you're a regular. You can tell that you have experience in podcasting from your, your, your professional side. So. What about you, Mike? Oh, what about me? All right. I was going to say you had some other stuff on here. So I talked about the, um, the Eastside trail to the Hancocks and ditching a bike. Um, I've still have on my list of to do's and Nick, I know you did this and, and you said it was no, no, uh, cakewalk, but Beaverbrook, um, over to the Kinsmans.

[00:27:22] I got to get that section of the AT cause I haven't done that. I've been talking about that for like three years. I have Kerrigan via desolation. So my daughter Caroline needs Kerrigan. So I was thinking we could do, do it from the desolation side. Oh, cool. And then I have the Adirondacks. I need to get into the Adirondacks. So I put that specifically for you, Dan. And that's, let's do it. Yes. So, um, all right.

[00:27:49] So we'll see, well, maybe we'll have you back on Dan at the end of the summer and we can see if we were successful in our goals. Do it. All right. Next up, we got search and rescue news.

[00:28:18] A lot of social media talk about the, uh, the recent rescues this weekend. Nick, you were up there. Um, I was driving to North Carolina, so I was in 93 degree temperature for the weekend, but you had a little bit more of an understanding of the, the conditions up North and it didn't look great, but can you just give your take about what the conditions were like this weekend? Yeah. I mean, I wasn't, I only was up just the Monday. Um, I think a lot of melt happened on Saturday, Sunday, but I believe Sunday afternoon, it kind of started snowing a little bit.

[00:28:47] And it was kind of a mess up high yesterday. Like I'd say the snow was sticking to the ground, maybe 3,500, 3,200 feet up and beyond. Um, so just really, it like melted a lot of the monorail, I think when it was warm, but there was still monorail in the trees. Then you got like wet, smushy snow. It was, it was rough going and everything's wet and melting still. There was water under everything. So, um, I guess typical April by a lot of stretches, but it seems like the sort of little period we had where things were cold and there was still like a pack snow on a lot of the trails is just gone.

[00:29:17] Now it's, it's kind of just back to like almost November, December, but there's monorail everywhere. Right. In spots. So the typical, uh, I think people think like, Oh, it's going to be nice. Now the snow's all melted. I can get out there, but it's not the case. And I think, I wonder if fishing game sometimes, whoever writes the headlines for these news reports, if they just throw in the Massachusetts thing every once in a while, just, just, I don't see them ever call out New Hampshire hikers rescued on X. I don't know. It's always Massachusetts, Rhode Island hikers. Yeah.

[00:29:47] Maybe it's not. I haven't seen them call out Rhode Island hikers before, but maybe it's not, it's inadvertent, but this was kind of funny and it got everyone's shirt up. So three Massachusetts hikers rescued from falling waters trail. So you have to put the shame drop in there, Nick, but it was on Friday, um, 8 30 PM conservation officers got notified that there was three hikers that needed assistance on falling waters and they were running out of daylight.

[00:30:12] They couldn't follow the trail and they were a little bit nervous crossing dry brook, which is far from dry right now. So there's the, the news report emphasizes that falling waters trail does five water crossings. So apparently these hikers lack the appropriate clothing to spend the night because the temperatures were falling. They're about a mile and a half up. So I'm assuming they were, I don't know.

[00:30:36] I'm guessing they probably made it across that first section and were coming down the steep side and then decided that they, they weren't feeling it. That's probably a mile and a half. So around, so the call came in at eight 30, around 11, the first conservation officers made contact with the group, gave them some lights, gave them some warm clothes, and then, um, safely made it across the uppermost brook crossing.

[00:30:58] And then they ended up bushwhacking across the, um, the far side. So they, I guess, skipped a bunch of crossings and then safely made it to the trailhead around 12 o'clock. So it was about an hour with the conservation officers and the hikers who identified as it was three 21 year old, 21, 23 and a 22 year old, all from Haverhill, Mass.

[00:31:25] So not only were they from Massachusetts, they were from the North shore Merrimack Valley, which is my neck of the woods. Yep. Your neck of the woods. They weren't though. We've had stretches where it was like three or four Southeast mass people. True. So Merrimack Valley is getting a little love here, but the group had departed at eight old long day, eight a.m. Long day. I saw that too. Yeah. That's man. If I'm out for 12 hours, like that's, that's, that's hard. They must've really been like by eight o'clock after experiencing that young people, probably not experienced hikers.

[00:31:53] Their brains must've been fried by the time they call. I'm sure. So it is, you know, it's funny and we have fun here, but like it is, it does kind of suck. You know, they're sympathetic. Young people, they don't know any better. They get in trouble. Sneak sneakers. Man. Only sneakers. You got to wonder like what they were doing when they were up above tree line. They must've been slipping and sliding. Yeah. I mean, it's funny though, because even when I was like up a couple of weeks ago, like after the show, like above tree line, I think a lot of the, everything got wiped out.

[00:32:22] And then we had rain on top of that, which wipes it out. And then it turned out, it's kind of just been variable back and forth. Like if you're out where the sun's hitting, I think it's, it's good, but you can be back in the trees. And then all of a sudden there's like four feet of snow again, maybe not necessarily right now, but a couple of weeks ago. Right. No headlamps. Nothing. No. No. I wonder if anybody came across them. Like, uh, I wonder at what point you always think about this. Like, okay, you guys aren't prepared. Let me, let me step in and help.

[00:32:47] Like I usually just keep my mouth shut when I see people on trail, but I feel like if I ran into this crew at six o'clock, I would, that, that these kids are my, my daughter's age. I might kick it. I might, I might say like, Hey, let me give you a hand or something, but I don't know. So the one post I read about this story, you know, obviously a lot of people dumping on this group for not being prepared. Um, but one post I thought was really kind of, you know, nice was, you know, let's show a little empathy.

[00:33:15] You know, the story ended well, and you know, this is how you learn to become a better hiker. And a lot of other people said, yeah, I, I, I had my first mistake on, on that same trail and I won't ever do it again. So, you know, it ended well. And we tell it, we knock all the young people about, Oh, you're sitting home and you're playing video games or your nose is in your phone. Like these are young kids that are getting out and doing something. So there is a positive part of that is at least they're being active. So yeah, a hundred percent.

[00:33:41] I mean, the first time I was up on the Ridge was in October with snowfall with like my father-in-law and my dad and some in rash and other people. And like we hit snow and didn't have spikes or anything. And that was like a Columbus day. So I, there's pictures, I've got jeans on and a sweatshirt and all that shit. So it's like, you can't really, everybody starts somewhere and not everybody knows what they're getting into. So, and I think a lot of us just get away with it. Right. Um, and they didn't, unfortunately.

[00:34:04] So, well, continuing the theme of young people getting in trouble, Nick, we've got two hikers on Mount Washington that got in trouble on Saturday night. So around seven 30 fishing game, got a call from, um, two hikers, Plymouth, mass. So, so sure. A little bit. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they were on the summit of Mount Washington. They were seeking shelter from wind driven precipitation next to a building.

[00:34:29] One of the hikers was experiencing leg pain because of an unknown condition, cold temperatures, high winds, forecasted snow was coming in. So conservation officers made the call to locate them and then take these two young men out. Uh, so officers were able to contact the good people at the Mount Washington state park who went over and searched for the pier. The auto road was also contacted and they advised that they had cleared the road suitably enough to get vehicle traffic to the summit.

[00:34:56] But so conservation officers then responded in a four wheel drive pickup truck to try and get to the summit and, and, and basically racing the incoming snow. So by eight o'clock, so that's pretty good. Seven 30. The call comes in by eight o'clock. The state park employees had located them, brought them inside the building, gave them some first aid addressing the leg pain. And then by 9. PM, a conservation officer was on the scene and began driving them back down.

[00:35:24] They were on, they were at the base by 10 PM and, uh, the, the young men were very thankful for their assistance. I saw some chatter online that one of the young men had said that like the, the leg injury was a little bit worse than maybe this made out this, this, this press report made it out to be. And that they thought that like the best option was to press on to get up to the summit and go from there.

[00:35:46] So, yeah, he had the, the one hiker had a pretty long response, I think on Facebook, Kang Nugent, um, about the conditions. Cause you know, it's easy again to kind of throw these people under the bus for being up there, but they actually felt going up to the summit was better than trying to get back down at that point. Right. Right. So they came up the jewel trail, it looks like, and then, um, you know, got the ride down. So I'm sure they had to, there was some logistics probably to get back to their cars or whatnot, but yeah, young people learning their lesson, I guess.

[00:36:16] Mm-hmm. So, and then this next one here, oh boy, this next one here, 56 year old from North Redding, Nick, that's my hometown. Your neck of the woods. I don't know. I don't know this guy, but, uh, 56 year old. So he got, you went to high school with him. I did not. I did not. So he's clearly not a townie, clearly not a townie, but, um, so this came in 615 New Hampshire fishing game was notified of a lost hiker off the Rocky Branch trail in Bartlett.

[00:36:44] So, um, the 56 year old from North Redding left the Glen Boulder trailhead around 845. So another long day. He got caught in a snowstorm and made a wrong turn. This was on Monday, Nick. So this was when you were hiking. Yeah. It was snowing pretty good up there in the morning for a bit. I mean, at Kinsman's it's pretty tough to lose anything, but it was, it was dumping snow pretty good. I had my goggles on for like half an hour. Really? No. Your goggles? Yeah. It was, it was like, it was snowing.

[00:37:09] Like it snowed a couple inches while I was up there and then it's kind of stopped, but I could see absolutely getting disoriented. Yeah. If you didn't know where you were going. Yeah. And it doesn't really explain in the, the press release, but it says he, he left the Glen Boulder trailhead. So he's coming Glen Boulder. He's down the Davis path. And then he got caught in a snowstorm, made a wrong turn, ended up on the Rocky Branch trail to get out of the high winds. And that's the call. I mean, you got to duck down. You're not going back up Davis path in that situation.

[00:37:36] So I guess he called for help after figuring out he'd made several wrong turns. It is a little tricky in there, you know, between if you don't know where you're going and you've got ISO express, you've got engine hill, you've got Rocky Branch. You can keep going down. So I guess the conservation officers made contact with him and they were able to drive up a gated forest road to within approximately two miles of the hiker and directed it out of the woods around by at around seven 40. And then he was driven back to his vehicle at Glen Boulder.

[00:38:06] So all's well that ends well there, but another long day. And yeah, I mean, that, that Glen, that Glen Boulder to Rocky Branch isolation trip is great, but it's a little early neck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I almost wonder, like you were saying how it's written. I almost wonder if he like dumped off on ISO express or something. I bet you did. And then, and then ended up going up. Yeah. But, uh, so anyway, North, North Redding, shout out to North Redding. I haven't seen a rescue from North Redding in a while. So, um, go Hornets.

[00:38:35] So this next one here, so we got two more and then we'll, we'll move on to other topics. We just wanted to get these. So many rescues are backed up here. So this was, um, three minor hikers from, from Massachusetts. Again, uh, they were not dressed for the falling temperatures, did not have proper footwear or gear or for the snow or ice. This was on April 10th. So this goes back a week and a half or so. This was on Mount Monadnock.

[00:38:59] Three hikers assisted off of, uh, the Red Spot Trail in Monadnock. So they were, um, I guess they, they called the New Hampshire state police and then the state police called the conservation officers and a pair of conservation officers hiked up to the group of stranded hikers making contact on the old ski path trail at around 1010. So these are pretty quick turnarounds from the time that the calls are coming into the time that the rescuers are getting there.

[00:39:28] Usually in the winter, you're talking like three to four hours. These ones were all an hour and a half to two hours. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to the conservation officers. So they gave them clothes, they gave them the necessary gear and then they were down and out by 11 PM. So it doesn't say the age of the hikers, it just says three minor hikers. So I'm assuming these might be 16, 17 year olds. Wasn't there a story, Nick, recently about like two, two kids that went and got drunk and hiked up Monadnock and got in trouble? Yeah.

[00:39:56] They fell, one of them fell in a, like a river or something. I think that was back in like January or something. They had, they had too much fun. Some might say. Dan, did you ever get drunk and go hiking up a Monad? I did not. You haven't? Usually, usually the beer is for the, the parking lot after the hike, but it did take quite a bit of, there's some good chuckles over, I think it was last year, the hikers doing mushrooms. Yes. You covered the one on Cascade and Porter. They thought their one friend had died.

[00:40:26] Right. Right. And then there's another one down in the Catskills. Yeah. Yeah. And then they, oh yeah, the Catskills. And then there was the naked guy on top of Zeeland Hot. Oh, I didn't hear that one. Yeah. He had, that was a while back. Yeah. Was he on acid or something? And he was like naked on top of the Zeeland Hot roof. Yeah. He was screaming at the hikers and conservation officers. We do have something that we have trademarked that we call elevation libations.

[00:40:49] And I think you got a small taste of that when we did Jefferson, which is usually pack a little flask of some sort of a trail cocktail. And typically when we get to the top, that's when we all do a cheers together. That's just a little tin cup shot. Right. Just enough to kind of celebrate the moment, but never get drunk. Right. Right. Keep it safe. I mean, when I was that age and I was young, we would drink in the Walmart parking lot or we would drink in the woods somewhere and burn tires. But we wouldn't do anything in the mountains.

[00:41:21] All right. This next one, thank goodness this is a New Hampshire resident that we rescued. So this was on Mount Shakur. This was a cool story here. So on April 18th, which would be? Yeah, Saturday. 9-1-1 received a call from an injured hiker on the Champney Falls Trail on Mount Shakur. There's always a tricky area down there. Like if you're going to come up Shakur from the kank, like the cell phone connection is bad there. Yeah. So I don't know where they were.

[00:41:50] Oh, she's like 3.1 miles away. So she was way up there. She's up there. Yeah. So she slipped and fell, fractured her left ankle. She was with a group of Boy Scouts. So she was from Wolfborough. She's one of two counselors with six members of the Boy Scout Troop 232 from Nashville. Shout out to the Boy Scout Troop 232 from Nashville. These guys come prepared. They were prepared. Yeah. Is that the Boy Scout motto? Is it be prepared? Yeah. That is. Yeah. These kids lived the motto.

[00:42:18] So they were well prepared for the hiking conditions and had appropriately splinted the fracture and applied ice to reduce swelling and help with the pain. Guys, excellent job. And the leaders there, you know, you were in good hands. So the first responders from Lakes Region Search and Rescue arrived at, so the call came in at 1.50, so 2 o'clock. First responders got there at 4.30 and they began carrying her down the trail.

[00:42:45] Guaranteed, you got six Boy Scouts helping to carry, so that's great news. And they had prepared her already. She arrived at the parking lot at 8.05, so that must have been a long, long trip down there. And that's a tight trail in some areas. But, yeah, she was transported to Memorial Hospital in North Conway and treated, so that's good. Good job, Troop 232. Yeah. That's the trail we did for Vanderfest this year. You did? Yeah. All right. Awesome. So that's a tricky trick.

[00:43:13] Like, the top section of that has that, like, those open slabs that are kind of at a weird angle, so not easy, so I can see people slipping there. But that's it for Search and Rescue news. We got some other stuff that's older, Nick, but we'll get to that if we get to it. Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. All right. Next up is a Dave Schitt's update, Nick. Do you want to? I can do the Schitt's. I'll do the update. You do the color commentary. All right. All right. That sounds good. All right. So Dave is about 500 miles in.

[00:43:42] Dan, do you know Dave Schitt's in the woods? Do you follow him at all? I do follow him, and I've come to know him through your podcast. Yes. Yeah. He's a great guy. Great guy. Yeah. So he's out there doing his thing. He's about 500 miles in. So he just cleared Damascus, and he's into Grayson Highlands. So he did not get a welcome parade in Damascus. And he also told me that he preferred Hot Springs, North Carolina, over Damascus. He felt like Hot Springs had more food options, and everything was closer together compared to Damascus.

[00:44:10] So Dave hates Damascus. So he's pretty close right now. So if any listeners are from Damascus, if you want to chase him down and stand up for your honor, then go get him. Yeah. I'll defend. I don't know if he said he hated Damascus. Oh, all right. Maybe I said that. A little aggressive. He said he preferred Damascus for the reasons that Mike's got into. Listen, let me put words in his mouth, please. Okay. He likes Hot Springs better.

[00:44:39] Dave just got stabbed tonight by somebody because he's right. Dave is anti-Damascus. So he said he's at Grayson Highlands, so he did meet the ponies, and then we found out a little bit of information. He said he sang the My Little Ponies theme song to the ponies and got no response. So first of all, what is he doing knowing the My Little Ponies theme song? Yeah, that's concerning. That's concerning. And then he got no response. So Dave shits in the woods as a brony. That's what you call fans of My Little Ponies, is bronies. I don't know if I'm a fan, but it was funny. I heard him sing.

[00:45:09] I'm like, I know that. I think that was on TV when I was a kid. Unfortunately, with three daughters, I probably, if the song came, I don't know it, but if the song came on, I probably could sing along. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like awoke something in my brain. I'm also a little concerned that you know what a brony is, Mike. Well, that's from listening to Howard Stern. So I learned all about the bronies and the cloppers and all that. So we don't want to get into that. That's a different podcast. That is a different podcast. This is a PG-13 podcast.

[00:45:37] So Dave did meet the famous wild ponies that roam in the open, bald sections of Grayson Highland. So a little bit about this is that they're not exactly wild. This is a managed herd, but they act wild. So expect zero respect for your personal space if you're around there. A couple of rules about the ponies is you're not supposed to feed them. You're not supposed to technically pet them and definitely guard your food, although they will come up to you and lick the salt off of your skin. That's pretty common.

[00:46:03] And a lot of hikers that are in the shelters will wake up to the ponies waiting to get their salt fix from their legs. So pretty cool. So Dave has just exited sort of the green tunnel section of Virginia, North Carolina, and he's now into this area that tends to open up a little bit. So he'll be dealing with big, grassy, bald sections, rock outcrops, long views. It'll feel more like the whites, sort of a light version of the AT. Some of these sections are rocky and slower going, especially near high points.

[00:46:32] It's he's going to hit Mount Rogers, which is the highest point in Virginia at 5,729 feet. And I guess my research on this summit is that it's oddly anticlimactic. It's wooded, not really any views, but the surrounding ridges do make up for it. And at this point right now, Appalachian Trail hikers should be getting their trail legs and injuries will either show up already or maybe they won't. And then you'll get your little social bubble will be forming. So Dave tells us he is dealing with some calf issues.

[00:47:02] So he's moving along a little bit. He's going to be entering Troutdale, Virginia, and he has one more town stop planned at the end of this week. And then he should hopefully be picking up the mileage. So weather-wise in late spring, it can get cold and windy up there. The fog rolls in fast and, you know, you'll have like short views and then you can get a total whiteout. But it's a classic exposed ridge behavior.

[00:47:30] So Dave should be feeling right at home up there. And from next week, he should hopefully be picking up the mileage a little bit. Pace-wise, he's not looking good for the pace, Nick. He's trending in late October right now. Yeah, I got faith in him. I think he's going to get healed and he's going to start cranking out some bigger days. I think so too.

[00:47:53] I think this part of Virginia and then Pennsylvania, these 15, 20-mile days will start rolling in and then he'll be hitting early October. I have a permit for – I have a parking permit for October 3rd at Roaring Brook. So just saying, Dave. But he's about a quarter of the way through the Appalachian Trail right now. He's in the longest section, the longest state, Virginia.

[00:48:17] And then the chat GPT says that if they made it this far feeling decent, the odds of finishing just went way up. If they're already beat up, Virginia can either heal you or grind you down slowly, Dave. Is that what it actually said back? That's what it did say. That's brutal. That's brutal. That's pretty tough. Or you might die. Or you might die. But no, we're rooting for you, Dave. And Dave did hear our impression of him and said it was horrible.

[00:48:48] Yeah, I heard he didn't like it. He made an impression with – I think Stomp might have did you and he did me like way back when. So I told him it was revenge for that. Dan, any thoughts around hiking the Appalachian Trail? Do you think you're going to retire early and get out there and be on the trail for four months? I mean, it's definitely on the list. Would love to do that. And, you know, obviously it's better done as a younger person than an older person, but better late than never.

[00:49:14] Although, after hearing your guest two weeks ago, I forget his name, but he did the SKT. Sheswick. Yeah, that was pretty intense. It's a little tough to follow that act. But one thing I did that really struck me when I was out hiking the long trail a few times is, like, there are just professional hikers out there. Yes. Right, and they just kind of like a ski bum, you know, they figure out a way to get out there six, eight months of the year and pay some bills the rest of the time. And it's just the lifestyle.

[00:49:43] And, you know, if you can kind of figure out how to work that lifestyle, it's not a bad gig. Yeah, yeah. Somehow mortgage payments and car payments and tuition payments kind of get in the way. But, yeah, maybe someday. I don't know. I think section hiking is more my style. Like, I'm good getting out for a few days, but I like to lay my head in a pillow. Yeah.

[00:50:06] That section he's going across now, like, I don't think I'd ever want to do the full AT even, like, in my retirement, which I'm way further out from than you guys, admittedly. Rub it in, Nate. But, I'm sorry. Well, sorry and slash jealous. I don't know which way. At least in the retirement portion. But, anyways, I would want, one of the sections I would like to go down and do is, like, the section he's going through now with all those, like, balls and kind of the open, like, feel. It almost reminds me, like, kind of, like, Moose Lock vibes where it's, like, a lot of open field kind of looking type of summits.

[00:50:35] But just really gorgeous rolling hills and mountains, like, as far as you can see. Yeah. It looks really beautiful. Yeah. Elevation's a lot higher than you. You don't realize how high it is. Some big mountains down there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think Washington kind of always steals the thunder, but people forget about, like, Clingman's Dome is almost 7,000 feet and kind of really the highest point on the East Coast. Yeah. Like, East of the Mississippi is really down there. Yeah. So, but we are rooting for Dave. And you can follow along on his Instagram if you follow him on at DaveShitsInTheWoods. Mm-hmm.

[00:51:03] And he's known as Cocaine Bear is his trail name there. So, we can't wait to have, well, eventually we'll have him on for an update. But we, yeah, we're going to try to work something out. One of the guys on our hiking crew, you didn't get a chance to meet him because he lives in Ohio, but his trail name is Sea Bear. Sea Bear. Ooh. He's short for Cocaine Bear. Oh, really? Oh, okay. That's funny. There's two of them. We have to have them meet. All right. So, Nick, we got some New Hampshire news here.

[00:51:33] Do you want to cover some of this? Yeah, sure. So, we got the official ice out is declared on Lake Winnipesaukee, which I would have thought this happened a while back. But it actually was just April 13th. But they kind of declare the ice out basically every year in New Hampshire to make sure that you're not really ice fishing or doing anything else anymore. I think a lot of this is mainly a safety type of thing. But, yeah, so if you're around Winnipesaukee, just stay off the ice.

[00:52:00] It also, too, when they call an ice out, it means that the lake's just not 100% free of ice. When did we hike the Belknaps? That was the 12th, right? The 11th. The 11th, right? Yeah. And this was declared a little bit after that. That's what I was going to say is like, I was thinking while I was reading this, I'm like, I didn't see any ice. But certainly, I would imagine the coves and maybe sort of the shaded areas, you might still have it hanging on. Because I'm sure they get like several feet of ice, especially this winter with some of the stretches we had. True, yeah. Because I saw some boats in Alton Bay. Yeah.

[00:52:29] I mean, even in here, they're saying like it wouldn't impede. Like they talk about the Mount Washington boat that they have over there, which we talked about a couple episodes ago. They said like it wouldn't be impeded by that. So, it's probably just coves and things like that. I would imagine lingering in the shade. Do you follow the Joe's Pond Ice out at all up in Vermont? No. Yeah. So, this is Northeast Kingdom of Vermont, a place called Joe's Pond. And they put like a kind of a scarecrow type thing sitting on the ice.

[00:52:55] And you can buy a raffle ticket each year and guess that you have to guess right down to the date and the time. And so, that just went out last week as well. I think April 16th at 621 a.m. And, you know, you can win some money. But it usually gets like in the national news, like when the ice is out in Vermont. Oh, neat. Is it like one of the last ones in the desi area? It's pretty late. Pretty late. I mean, this was the 16th. I don't know when the Winnipesaukee one was.

[00:53:24] Yeah, this was the 13th. Yeah, it's a couple days later. It's a smaller pond, so it'll freeze a little more. Yeah. I know that they do a similar raffle for Winnipesaukee as well. I think like a local newspaper has it. But that's a cool idea with the scarecrow. What is the pond up in Vermont that has like the longest ice skating rink? Oh, that's – is that Caspian? Something like that. Yeah, it's got a – it's like a three-mile loop.

[00:53:54] And it's really beautiful. I've been to that lake, but I haven't done the ice skating there. Yeah. I saw – I just learned about that this winter, and I thought that that would be the coolest thing to go check out. Lake Mori. Lake Mori. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Up and fairly. Right across the river. That might be – Nick, do you know how to skate? I've only gone two or three times. I've never like bought ice skates. I've gone – like in Providence, they usually do – like they have the rink down there. I've gone with like dates before and stuff.

[00:54:24] And all I remember is the ice skates like digging into my calves to the point that it wasn't super enjoyable. So you went on a date to go ice skating, but you never ice skated? No, I ice skated at the date, if that makes sense. Right, right. But how did it – But I just kind of – it went okay. I mean, it went okay. Did the date know how to ice skate? Yeah, she knew how to ice skate. So she was a good ice skater, but you weren't. Yeah, she was like a bike rider and I was like the non-bike rider sort of deal. That's like the worst case scenario.

[00:54:52] Did you know ahead of time that you were going to go on – like if that was me, I would have been training for weeks ahead of time so that I wouldn't look weak. I think it was definitely more of an impromptu thing. Okay. And I don't know if there was an assumption that I could ice skate. I feel like ice skating is a less common thing to know how to do down here than say riding a bike. But yeah, that's been – I've only done it a few times. Like riding a bike, number one, absolute prerequisite. Skating as a New England person, absolute prerequisite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:55:21] I had rollerbladed but never ice skated really. Okay. Well, if you can rollerblade, you should be able to ice skate. Yeah. Again, I didn't go like horribly, but I just was like, okay. All right. I feel like you don't know how to ice skate, Nick. I feel like I'm adding that as another thing that I need to teach you. It was a while. It was only like 12 years ago. So it probably wouldn't go super well. Dan, do you know how to skate? Oh, yeah. I used to play hockey. Right. Of course. See? It's like breathing. I never played hockey, but I played pond hockey. So anyway. All right. Great exercise.

[00:55:51] All right. Sticking with – I got my eye on you, Nick. You need to learn skills. It's a hobby list. So keeping with the lakes region theme here, the Squam trails are reopening all their sort of trail system as of April 17th. So before this actually goes out, it looks like the last weekend. They do close during mud season, which is kind of cool. Some places do that. Like I know, Dan, I know Vermont actually – I don't know if they can find you, but they

[00:56:18] are more intense with, I think, not letting you hike in mud season, correct? Yeah, they don't want – they're militant. Vermonters being militant seems like an oxymoron. Yeah, they will call the authorities on you. We'll throw maple syrup on your car. But yeah, so there are certain trail associations in New Hampshire that do this. I know the Squam Lakes region is kind of one where they really – probably most notably, this includes like Morgan Percival. The 52 of the view peaks are within that Squam Lakes trail section.

[00:56:48] I think there's like Rattlesnake and a couple others that I haven't checked out. But they're open again and dry, so that's kind of good to see. It's kind of funny to me because it kind of snowed and got messy again this weekend, but I guess they'll sort of stay open. So that's good news if you're hiking down the lakes region. And Mike, it looks like you have some different hiking tips here for spring and mud season. I think Stomp put these in here. So yeah, there's a couple of reminders. So how to stay safe and recreate responsibly.

[00:57:16] So this is mud season. So you want to – I guess there's a couple of tips in this article, and we'll include this in the show notes. First of all, embrace the mud. Wear waterproof shoes and pants that you don't mind getting dirty. Bring an extra change of clothes, extra towels and bags for the car because you're going to get messy when you get back to your car. Especially, Nick, my brand new Subaru doesn't – oh, it's not brand new, but it's a used Subaru. It doesn't have the plastic mats. It's just got the rug mats. That's a bummer. You didn't weasel that out of them when you were like –

[00:57:46] I didn't even – You were like, no, I'm not buying it. I know. No, I don't think our outback came with them either when I got them. You got to get some nice weather tech or something like that. Yeah, I'm going to do that. They're expensive, but they're nice. I'm going to do that. My wife seems to think I don't need them, but I'm like, you don't know who you're talking to here. I'm the king of mud. So anyway, bring an extra change of clothes. And then choose hikes at low elevations and south-facing slopes.

[00:58:11] So this is an important one because those are the trails that tend to dry out faster. So just sort of know your direction as far as where the sun hits things and pick trails that are facing the sun. What are some trails that face this? I feel like Passa Conway and Whiteface, Nick, those are probably pretty good because those are southerly facing. Yeah, for the most part when you're kind of hiking in there. I mean, anything that's not in the trees as much, yeah.

[00:58:39] Yeah, turn around if the trail is extremely muddy. So yeah, it's a whole thing here. Look, forget about the article. Here's my deal. If you can hike and stay away from the high elevation stuff, if you're staying under 3,000 feet, hit a 52 with a view or something like that, bring your trail runners. The second you get an opportunity to step in a puddle, just step in a puddle, get your socks and your feet wet, and just deal with it, and then just go through everything. And just don't do any of that side wrecking the trail or anything like that.

[00:59:09] Just stay right in the water the whole way and get your feet soaking wet the whole time. That's the way I do it. Yeah, just embrace it. Bring trekking poles. And then if you could do water crossings, don't take any risks, but just go right in the water and use your trekking poles. And don't cross barefoot or anything crazy like that. Just get your shoes wet. Yeah, no cross if it's like waist-deep water. Right. That's the one caveat with that. Right. And then- Use your noggin. Stomp it put in here. Stomp is always looking out for us.

[00:59:38] High water crossing tips here. First tip is if it's high water, don't cross. Right? Yeah. The next tip is, let me see here, train for high water decisions. Nick, I don't know what that means. I guess you just got to go look at water crossings and decide whether to go in or not. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure if that, like, assess the sketchiness of how, like, I don't know, be prepared to fall.

[01:00:05] I mean, the only logistical thing, like, I've ever really heard of is, like, if you're really on a serious crossing that you have to cross, which really doesn't happen, I don't think, for most of us day hikers this time of year. Like, you never have to go there. Like, you should be able to- Maybe, like, there was more melt than you expected, but taking your backpack off is a pretty real thing. And I don't mean taking off, unbuckling it. I should recorrect myself there. So that if you do get dragged in, your backpack's not going to kind of hold you down. You should be able to get it off because that thing's going to turn into a giant wet, lead weight, basically, and drag you.

[01:00:35] It can also get caught on rocks and stuff like that. I've never been in a situation, I think, where I've consciously had to do that. Most people, I think, you mostly should be able to avoid having to be in a situation like that. Right. But, yeah. Don't take chances. You've got to be careful. That's what I say. But the other thing is, is if you find a route and you're, like, not 100% confident that that route is good, send your friend across first. Make sure that they can scope it out for you to have them take the risk.

[01:01:04] That's why we have Peter. Especially if you have a tall friend who's, like, six foot two plus, maybe. That's true. That's probably optimal so that they can go through. On that topic, and we talked about this before because I was mentioning melts, and I have ended up in a situation before where we were crossing. It was in the summer. I've mentioned with me and Ash on Owls Head before. But one thing that's very real in the spring is, like, a lot of these rivers can become quite flush from maybe going in the morning to the afternoon. If you're dealing with a lot of snow melt, like, they can rise really quickly.

[01:01:34] Ice dams and things like that can break. So that's something you definitely need to be negligent. Sorry. You actually don't want to be negligent of and kind of not think about that. But you might be going up something in the morning, and it ends up being way higher in the afternoon. So if it's sketchy on the way up, assume it's going to be worse, at least on the way down. Right. Exactly. And then also, like, and I'll put a link in this, but like the east branch of the Pemi River,

[01:01:58] the gauge height and the gauge readings, utilize that stuff because it will tell you how it's running on like a, you know, I usually switch it over from a seven day to like a 30 day or a one year. So you can get a sense. And right now it's running at, let me see here. I got to, I'll do a 30 day. Yeah. It's running at about five and a half feet. So it's, I think the danger zone is like six feet, but I'm not sure.

[01:02:25] I got to change the setting on this and update it, but it is, it's running high right now. So you got to, you got to factor that in. So I'll, I'll put that link in the show notes and definitely take a look at that, that crossing and the gauge height, when you compare it to slower times of the year, like July and August, it will tell you how hot the river's running. There was one hike in the Adirondacks, Allen Mountain, and it had a pretty big river crossing without a, without a bridge.

[01:02:55] And one of the hiker instructions was to bring two big garbage bags and just use those as waders going across and it works, but it's, it's pretty intimidating when you're out there because you know, if you go down, man, those things are going to fill and. Right. And to unbuckle the buckle, of course, I've heard that's the leading cause of death on the AT people just going under. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's, I mean, the packs are heavy and then I think people just start fiddling with them and they panic and then it, no good can come of it.

[01:03:25] So nothing in your pack is worth dying for. Nope. All right. What else do we have? A couple of national stories here. So we had talked about Canada had banned hiking in Nova Scotia because of wildfire concerns and they basically banned everybody from going out. And there was a little bit of a, you know, you want to make sure that you're not causing forest fires, but also there's a little bit of government overreach there.

[01:03:50] So some people had sued, some local peoples had sued, had been ruled the decision to shut down all access to the outdoors has been ruled unconstitutional now that it's April and summer's over. I guess they can't do that next, uh, next year. So next up here, if you're a Gatorade drinker, like I am, Gatorade is going to be switching

[01:04:14] to plant-based dyes instead of whatever dyes that they, the dyes to make the color nick. That's what I'm talking about. Yes. Yes. Yeah. With a, those nice reds and yellows and blues. I do like Gatorade. I will tell you, I bought a yellow Gatorade or a green Gatorade. I think we talked about this before and I thought I was getting a lemon lime and it was

[01:04:37] really a cucumber and I was very disappointed, but apparently cucumber lime Gatorade is very popular amongst the, um, South American market. So they put, they put it up in, in our area of, and I accidentally picked the wrong one. So. It's a very distinctive feeling when you expect something to taste a certain way and it doesn't taste that way. It's like very jarring. Yes. Kind of funny. So food dyes such as yellow six and red 40 are approved by the food and drug administration,

[01:05:06] but have come under scrutiny by activists that are concerned about their possible cancer risks. So I think, I think I eat a lot of red 40. I don't know, but I, I got a feeling I do. Yeah. I've heard it. And this is totally off the cuff. I've heard from a lot. I've never researched, but I believe in Europe and certain other places in the world too, you're not allowed to really use as much artificial dye as we use in the United States. I've heard that too. So it's not like they don't have the alternatives already.

[01:05:34] A lot of these companies certainly like a Pepsi or a Coca-Cola or something. So. I'm concerned. Nick, if they remove the dye from the food, are we going to, are we going to lose our rugged individualism as Americans? We might. We might. We might. So. Dan, have you ever hit an animal and have you ever run over a moose or a deer or anything with the car? I've hit two deer with my car total. Well, first, first time didn't total it. Second time did total it. Got it. All right. You're one ahead of me.

[01:06:03] I got one, but did you, did you ever think about like, maybe I'll just, you know, the cars were ruined already. You might as well take the deer meat, right? Well, the first time I hit one was in Vermont. It was the night before Thanksgiving, called the cops, he showed up, and the deer was off the side of the road and was still alive. Right. And the cop turned to me and says, do you want the deer? Right. And I said, no. And without warning, he just pulls out his gun and puts a bullet in it. Right.

[01:06:31] Which I understand you have to do, but I wasn't prepared. Like it would have been nice if he said, hey, I'm going to shoot this deer. I know you're already traumatized by almost dying, but it's like the 15th one he's done that week. Right. But the first shot didn't take it. He needed to do a second shot. Oh my gosh. And at least in Vermont, I don't know if they do this in New Hampshire or Mass. I mean, there's a call list. So the cops will call certain people and it's when your number's up, you go pick up the deer and you get free dinner. Yep.

[01:07:01] But the one I hit in New York State took off through a farm field, did some pretty good damage to the car. I'm sure it probably died, but he ran into me more than I ran into him. Yeah. Yeah. The same with me. I got, I was going about 75, 80 miles an hour on 495 in Haverhill and the same thing, the deer ran right across 495 and hit the front corner of my car. Well, it flew up in the air and then it died, but it was shot.

[01:07:27] It was really like, even to this day, driving on the highway at night, I stay in the middle lane and I go pretty slow and I'm constantly scanning. I don't, it's nerve wracking for sure. But the reason I ask about this, Dan, is I have a story here, a Laramie couple, and we'll go back to your point about the call list in a moment. This is from the Cowboy State Daily, which is Stomp's favorite newspaper. A moose totaled the Laramie couple's car and then somebody took their roadkill.

[01:07:56] So you know you're in a good area of the country when the officer will ask if you want to keep the roadkill when you've ruined your car. But this is Laramie, Wyoming. So a man totaled his car colliding with a moose early on Monday on Wyoming Highway 230. He and his fiance thought they'd at least get the moose meat out of the mishap. It's legal in Wyoming to claim a roadkill carcass for meat after checking in with the fishing game and filing a form to claim the carcass.

[01:08:23] So Tim Weiland and Lindsay Williams could return to the scene to recover the carcass. But by the time they got there, somebody else had come along and stole much of the meat and ruined the rest of it. So they lost their car and then they lost the moose. It's not a good day. Oh, this guy looks like he would like, this guy in the picture, I'll share the article. He looks like he could absolutely clean a moose in about five minutes. He's got the big beard. He's got the trucker hat.

[01:08:52] And he doesn't look happy. Yeah. No. So I guess Weiland was commuting to work in a 2004 Volkswagen Passat when he hit the moose at about 520 a.m. close to the Colorado state line. And he called the fiance and said, I just hit an effing moose. I'm fine, but the car is not. The moose is not, but I am. So I'm okay.

[01:09:21] So anyway, this is still a mystery. Nobody knows who took the, as far as I can tell in this article, nobody knows who took the meat. But we've done a couple of articles here where like that call list gets contentious. Like cops were playing favoritism with some people and not others. And the roadkill collecting people got in a fight or something. And there was like a lawsuit in Massachusetts somewhere. So every town has that. Yeah.

[01:09:48] I feel like there needs to be some sort of like covert Netflix documentary on this moose trade that's going on out in Wyoming. Or a discovery, like roadkill discovery channel. Yeah. You definitely, I definitely could see this happen. I mean, they're saying like they dragged it with winches apparently like to a nearby road and stuff and got it over a cattle guard. So it seems like they kind of knew what they were doing. Yeah, apparently. I mean, a moose is huge, so. Yeah, that's impressive. All right. This last one. Ultra processed foods turning people into marbles.

[01:10:15] So I don't know, Stomp put this in here and he, the article's interesting. It's from WMUR. It's about people that eat unprocessed foods. And there was a, there was a study about a 61-year-old woman who had fat marbling in her thigh muscles and I'm trying to think that was, oh, here it is.

[01:10:38] The participants diet, they did a study that said this 62-year-old woman obtained 87% of her annual calories from ultra processed food and her diet mainly consisted of cold cereals, chocolate candy or candy bar, regular soft drinks and bottled sugary drinks. Sounds pretty good. If you want to marble your thighs. Yeah.

[01:11:02] Hidden, this results in hidden streaks of fat hiding between and within the muscle fibers that can cause serious health problems. So ultra processed foods. I mean, look, I like Cheez-Its, but I don't go crazy. I like to eat my healthy food too. Yeah. So anyway, Dan, do you eat a lot of ultra processed food? I do not. I've, I've tried to switch to mostly fish and vegetable lately and it's worked out pretty well.

[01:11:32] Yeah. You look like a pretty healthy guy. I'm impressed. Thanks. No problem. So do you. Are you ready for Slashers? Do you, do you like Spider-Man Dan? You ever watched Spider-Man?

[01:11:59] So Spider-Man, one of the cool things about Spider-Man is he does that thing where he shoots out of his wrist, Dan will know what I'm talking about. I don't know if Nick's going to know what I'm talking about, but he can shoot out and then he can basically pin something against a wall with his spider web, right? You know what I'm talking about, Nick? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don't know why I said the web, like I had no idea what Spider-Man is, but yes, I do. You know what you're talking about. There's a point to what I'm talking about. We're doing gear talk now.

[01:12:26] So there is a new piece of gear that you can buy, which is a drone defender. So in case you're ever worried about getting attacked by a drone, there's this gun that shoots a web just like Spider-Man and it wraps around the drone and takes it out of the air. So. What are your feelings on drones on summits, Dan? I don't like them.

[01:12:52] You know, uh, and in some place I know in the Adirondacks, uh, in the high peaks region, they're, they're, um, illegal, uh, without a permit. Uh, I was on an ad knock this past summer and, um, you know, it was a beautiful day. You're up there sitting and granted there's a lot of people there, but you know, there's a, there's a dude, you know, flying the, uh, the drone. I don't know if it was legal or not there. Um, but you know, you couldn't avoid it. Right. So it just kind of, kind of kills the, uh, the experience. Yeah. I've kind of got the same sentiment.

[01:13:21] I was saying when stomped that sent this to us that I forget, it was like a 52 with the view peak. I don't know if it was well sticky or whatever, but like I was up there kind of a nice day. And then all of a sudden you hear like kind of coming from nowhere. And I mean, the photographer and stuff appreciates, uh, what drones and the kind of shots they can get. And obviously there's a lot of, we talk about, they have a lot of good purposes for search and rescue and stuff. Um, disturbing someone else while they're trying to hike and having peace. Like I'd rather not have something buzzing above me or at least be courteous and ask another person if they're cool with it, which I guess is impossible.

[01:13:51] If you're dealing with hundreds of people hiking on trail to kind of get sort of a courtesy check there. But yeah, overall I'm not the biggest fan. Um, I was saying, it seems like if you were getting annoyed by say that person, I'm a non-nock taking this gun and shooting their drone down would probably be incredibly satisfying. It's pretty cool. It's like a big spider web and then it has little weights on the end of it. Just you pull it out of your backpack and then it just takes it out and you're like, okay. Yeah. I think, I think there's a hiker's paradox, right?

[01:14:17] I don't want the drones on the mountaintops, but at the same time, if it could deliver me a pizza and a six pack of beer, that would be pretty cool. That is true. Yep. There you go. Hiker's paradox. I like that. That's true. So this thing is pretty interesting. It is, um, it's a drone neutralizer. It's like a gun that, that shoots this web. But I think the mic, my, the issue with this one is that I have a feeling that the, the range on this gun is pretty, pretty small. Yeah. It really does. Yeah.

[01:14:47] So the, the, the drone could, could easily just sort of hover above you. So you have to get it when it's pretty low. So they, the battery's going to run out eventually though. Anyway. Um, so yeah, if you use this thing or if you have a shoot down a drone, just let us know. We'll be, we'll be, we'll be interested. We'll have you on the show. And then we've got a couple of Nick, you've got a couple of gear discussions. You want, you want to give a shout out to some, some stuff here. Sure.

[01:15:16] Uh, so I did want to give a formal, just, I guess, endorsement or whatever if Hyperlite wants to endorse us. But, um, it's been about four months. I've been using the Waypoint 35 pack by Hyperlite. Um, this is recommended. Hyperlite was recommended to me from several people. Um, our friend Rebecca specifically recommended the Waypoint. Um, it's worked really well for winter day hikes. Um, now going into spring shoulder season and stuff. It's a, it's a, I find it's a great size for me. The amount of straps and configurations you can kind of do with it with snowshoes and everything.

[01:15:45] Um, just been really, really great. Um, I picked up the Southwest 55 that I used on an overnight trip to, which really enjoyed. Um, hadn't upgraded my backpacks in quite some time. So I was, I was happy with them, even though they were both expensive. Think wait till you get some gift certificates, whatever, but they're in my mind, they're definitely worth the money. I know they switched to, um, they used to be kind of all made in Maine, I believe. And now it's summer made kind of overseas or in Mexico, all the repairs and stuff. And the guarantees are still all sort of done through that parent company in Maine.

[01:16:13] So I think if you're apprehensive, they can kind of back it up from what I've read. Um, so yeah, if you're, if you're looking for a pack and don't mind spending a little bit, I would definitely suggest the, uh, the Waypoint 35 as a day pack. And then, um, shopping around, I was, I was looking at REI sales. Um, I had some really old trekking poles by a company cascade. I don't even know if they're a formal company, um, that had broken a while back. Um, so I've been using some super old trekking poles. It's not like Jansport, but it's like one of those like really off brands.

[01:16:43] Um, and was looking at what REI had on sale. So I actually picked up a new pair of these Lecky trekking poles. Um, which ones were they specifically? So I got some of the Kumbu light AS trekking poles. Peter is making fun of me cause they have shock absorbers in them. And he's like, Oh, do you need those already? Um, and I was like, I don't care what they have in them as long as they're, they're only like a hundred bucks as opposed to like 200. Trekking poles are expensive. Um, it's, I was kind of like, I was looking at these and I'm like, I don't remember these being super expensive. So that'll be a nice thing to try out in the spring.

[01:17:12] I don't use trekking poles all the time, but I wanted some new lighter ones. Um, and then my, my last thing, and I'll kind of let you dive in over here, Mike, with what you had, but, um, I've been kind of on a journey trying to switch up trail runners. Um, I've been in the ultra lone peaks for a few years since I kind of converted to using trail runners. And this seems like a sentiment, a lot of people share, um, including our friend Cheswick who really knows what he's talking about. Cause he's hiking that many miles on the ultras.

[01:17:40] Um, but the lone peak nines, the grip on them is a hundred percent worse than any of the other I've had since the sixes. I think, uh, coming down gray lock, even though it was wet and you expect things to be slippery. They just, the grip was really atrocious, uh, frankly with them. Um, I really wasn't a big fan of it compared to some of the past models. Um, tried out some topos, um, and ordered them that were on sale from REI, um, kind of took a chance with them. They were too narrow for sort of my midfoot, um, heard great things about those. I think they have the max grip vibram souls.

[01:18:10] Um, and it was kind of shopping around and talking to jet GPT a little bit. And, um, even though, so Hoka speed goats, I was using a lot of last sort of spring through the summer. And even though my initial impression was that the ultras are comfier to wear, I kind of had to admit to myself that I was hiking in the speed goats. Most of last summer, they worked really well for some long distance hikes. Like the, the Prezi Traveris and a single day Pemi had no blisters or anything. So I'm going to go back to the, uh, the Hoka speed goats again, and hopefully, uh, there'll be kind of a good fit.

[01:18:38] It looks like they've got those max grip vibram souls on the newer ones now too. Um, so see how that goes. Can I say something about the lucky poles? Sure. So I've always used lucky poles and I had one pair that I had used on the long trail and had finished all the Adirondack 46 peaks. I was coming down, um, off of basin after I'd finished the, uh, the winter 46, hit an ice patch that was back climbing, slid down about 15, 20 feet, caught the pole, snapped it in half. Um, and it was pretty beat up at that point anyway.

[01:19:08] Um, so I had sent an email to lucky kind of indicating, Hey, you know, broke the pole. Um, would love a discount on a new pair. She asked what kind of pole it was. I showed her the picture. She's like, Oh, those are guaranteed for life. Two days later, I had a brand new set. Um, mailed to me. That's sick. Um, so I will, I will always use lucky poles. All right. That's good. That's another shout out for him. Yeah. I haven't had, I've never really had like a hiking, like brand specific pole or I guess like a lucky or like more one of the known ones.

[01:19:37] So I'm looking forward to, to trying them out and taking them out. Yeah. Yeah. I had black diamonds, which were, they were heavy, but they were solid. They were like rock solid, but eventually the tips wore out. So I bought, um, REI flash, which are nice. They're super light. But, um, I think somebody had broken theirs. I think my friend Jay had cracked his. So I'm guessing it's only a matter of time for mine. Cause I've had mine for like three, four years now, but maybe I'll check out the like, I see a lot of people have them. So. Yeah.

[01:20:06] And I know too, a lot of people, I was talking to Peter a little bit about the aluminum versus carbon fiber. Um, a lot of people talk about carbon fiber, having sort of a quick ability to splinter depending again, and that's just kind of inherent to I think carbon fiber as material is. Yeah. It can get brittle. It's, it's really good. If it absorbed, if you impact it the way that it's intended to be impacted upon, um, it's really good at what it does. But if you kind of hit it awkwardly, it can snap really easily. Um, so something to consider. Speaking of trail runners. Oh, no, sorry. Go ahead, Dan.

[01:20:34] Well, I was just going to say about the trail runners, the topos Matt, who was at Vander Fest, uh, is a huge topo fan. He really loves his. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard great. I mean, Cheswick was recommended to my knower buddy. Jake has some of just their normal shoes. And I wish they, and I'm glad you kind of brought it up again, cause it made me think of the stand, but they don't actually sell. Um, I emailed them cause they said to reach out, but as far as I can tell, they don't sell a wide size shoe. So like ultras and stuff like, I don't have a super wide foot, but I usually will get a wide, um, if it's available.

[01:21:03] I know like Hocus, for example, I have Hoka running shoes for my, like for running shoes. Um, so I've kind of got the same size there. I know they're wide works. Um, but I've heard great things from a lot of people about topos and they kind of seem to be one of the up and coming brands that a lot of people are talking about. Yeah. You know what I saw this weekend was, uh, I found this like awesome hiking. I was in North Carolina. I had to drop a car off from my daughter. So I was, I was on Saturday. I was just there for the day. They took me out to this like area called Graham, North Carolina.

[01:21:30] It was sort of like, um, it was like the scene from, um, back to the future, you know, back to the future where he's riding his floating skateboard. It was like that sort of downtown is a classic, like main street. It had a, um, historical courthouse in the middle and there was a square and then all around it had like a diner with a soda fountain in it. And then there was antique car thing going on with a bunch of guys.

[01:21:59] So it was really like you step back in the 1950s, but we want walking around, checking out the stores and they had this, this, um, outdoor gear store called OV Yonders. And I go into this place and I'm like looking at it and like, they had big Agnes tents. They had Nemo tents. They had all kinds of gear. They had, um, backpacks. They, they had an awesome selection of sleeping bags, like anything you could need for gear they had. And then they had an upstairs section that had a ton of clothes.

[01:22:29] So they had, but you know what they carried for trail runners was on cloud, which I don't know much about them, but they, they had that, that was basically their primary brand. Interesting. And I guess they're European brand, but they're not cheap. They were like $180 for trail runners, but they look good. And, um, yeah, that's really not too out of, too out of ballpark. I mean, for what like Coca and everybody else is charging. One thing that's interesting is when you start digging in, like most of them kind of share

[01:22:56] the same types of souls that they're like either where they're, they're vibram or whatever, like the rubber they're made. A lot of them that a lot of times there's not a huge difference in that. So, but yeah, this place OV Yonders, I'll put a link in there. If anybody's ever in Graham, North Carolina in the Alamance County area, but, um, it was awesome. They had like, they had a, so it was a gear store, but then they had a coffee place that's connected to it. So they had all these couches and then behind the coffee store was a rock, a rock gym, a climbing gym.

[01:23:26] So you can go shop for gear. That's cool. You could do rock climbing and then you could hang out and have coffee. It was like the perfect store. That's neat. So highly, highly recommended. Sounds good. Um, all right, Nick, we're going to have a time crunch here. So I'm going to skip the dad joke. We're going to skip the pop culture. Uh, you, do you want to, you want to do the music minute? You want to skip it? Or what do you think? Oh, I'll bang, I'll bang it out for the, for the aforementioned reason.

[01:23:54] So I did want to, we talked about the live show. I was really surprised by how many people came up to me and asked about, oh, we didn't do a music minute and what are the music minutes? Cause you haven't done in a couple of weeks. I'm going to do a music minute this week. We'll try to, we'll try to keep it quick. And I'm going to, this is genuinely an album that I've really excited about. I've really been listening to. So for this week, we've got stereo mind game by the band daughter, um, came out in 2023. Wanted to shout out my Apple music recommendation station for throwing this one my way.

[01:24:20] A lot of times when I'm editing photos or doing stuff kind of before bed, post kiddo bedtime, um, I'm usually put out on some music and try to listen to some new stuff. So this is daughter's first album that came out in seven years. It's the first one that I've ever listened to by them. I was not familiar with them ahead of time. They are a London based trio led by Alayna, Alayna Tonra, Igor Hayfeli and Remy Aguiela kind of test my ability to pronounce last names there. Um, this whole album toes the line between commercial pop and progressive rock.

[01:24:50] It's super atmospheric, good use of dynamics. I'd say it's comparable. Um, and you might want to check this out. If you're a fan of radio heads, later albums, the national Bon Iver, Florence and the machine, Lana Del Rey, the IAS or Billy Eilish, probably a couple other contemporary artists that they're comparable to there, but those are kind of the ones that I shouted out. Um, on this album, a lot of themes, um, going on distance, reconnection, emotional survival. It's got a really powerful mix of songwriting lyrics.

[01:25:19] The production is fantastic on this whole album. It kind of fits my ear and what I like to hear coming out of an album. Some standout tracks, be on your way, party, Neptune, future lover into rage. If you don't check out anything else from this album or this recommendation, I do recommend you check out the song future lover in the least. It's fantastic. Party was a really standout track to me as well. Um, just has some really super heavy lyrics dealing with addiction, self-worth, escapism

[01:25:45] and music, and just a super rawness, um, that I think you can't really fake. And I really appreciated. Um, I don't think every artist sort of gets into this level of admitting clearly like the lead singer in this band has had some issues with addiction and things going on. So it was, uh, I don't know, just cool to see it come out in a beautiful way. Um, already talked a little bit about production quality here. Uh, it really recorded well, mixed super well, can hear everything appropriately. I don't think it's ever overpowering.

[01:26:14] Everything is as loud as it should be how it should sound, which I really appreciated. Mentioned a little bit earlier. This is my first introduction to them as a band, the band daughter. Um, I was actually pretty blown away listening to this. Um, it's probably one of the albums I've listened to the most since I've been doing music moments on PUDS podcast or even on here. Um, the lyrics are super intimate without being overstated. Um, songs like Party Swim Back and Future Lover feel delicate, but somehow massive at the same time.

[01:26:42] And, uh, hearing this album was so carefully constructed as a first impression made me want to sort of go back through all their other albums and EPs that they've had on. Um, and I did want to call out as one last point here, and I actually shot this over to Stomp, but they did some live, um, recordings and also videoed this so you can watch it on YouTube as a short film of their middle farm sessions where they record a bunch of this album. Um, just really good stuff. It's filmed in a very artsy way. So if you're into that, you'd probably enjoy it. Um, one of the songs even has the lead singer playing an acoustic guitar, like out in like

[01:27:11] a field and it's just absolutely beautiful and it's recorded super well. Um, you can hear birds singing and stuff in the background. So it's, it's legit. Um, but yeah, check out this album, Stare Your Mind Game by the band Daughter. All right, Nick, I tried to listen a little bit before, uh, the show. I, I listened to couples, very angsty, very angsty. Yes. Yeah. There you go. A lot of, a lot of feelings going on there. Yeah. You know, too many, too many feelings for you. I need a little uptempo, but I'm going to give it a try. I trust your, I trust you.

[01:27:42] So, um. I appreciate it. Let's get back to some, uh, commercial 1970 stuff next time, but this is good. It'll be, it'll be next week. Very good. So, all right. So, uh, what do we got here? Stereo Mind Games by Daughter. Check it out. So, all right, here we go, Nick. We gotta, we gotta get through some stuff here. Free stickers. The Mountain Wanderers and Spinner's Pizza Parlor if you need those. Um, if you want swag, you can check out a bonfire shop. Uh, that's in our show notes. If you want patches, patches are back.

[01:28:10] You can direct message your address on Instagram to the Slasher, uh, Instagram account or, uh, and then include payment to, uh, our Venmo, which is at Slasher Podcast at Venmo. So it's $2 and $5. We're not making any money off of this. We're just, it's a shipment here, folks. This is, you know, this is not a money endeavor for us, although if you do want to give us money, we will take it in coffee donations. And, uh, we want to give a couple of shout outs for coffee donated. We had a lot of coffee.

[01:28:39] Ace of Hikes donated 10 coffees. Lynn Baker donated three coffees and she said, I want to tell you how much I enjoy your podcast. I started hiking four years ago at the age of 60 after my husband passed away and I was like a fish out of water, but a friend took me up Pierce and I was hooked. I've learned a great deal from listening to you and reading Ty Gagne's books. My second mountain, by the way, was Washington up Tarkerman. So needless to say, I learned a lot from that hike. Keep on doing what you're doing. All right. Thank you, Lynn.

[01:29:09] And then Jared, um, sent us 10 coffees. So we're doing well with coffees here, Nick. Yeah. And I wanted to shout out Ace of Hikes. I was going, I mean, I met them in person, uh, well, me at Ace of Hikes and his sort of other half there as it were at the, uh, the live podcast. And, uh, he's kind of thrown together sort of an Instagram on his journey through hiking and was also reaching about some of my photography and maybe doing something. So really nice, really nice dude. We have some really nice fans out there. Great people.

[01:29:35] So if you want to do the coffee thing, if you, there's a thing on the coffee, if you select, if you check a monthly thing, we'll, we'll get money every month and it's probably impossible to cancel that. So yeah. And I should say Senator Ace of Hikes. So they were kind enough to become a Senator. Thank you. We appreciate it. Hey, hold my beer.

[01:30:04] It's time to find out what Mike and Stomp are drinking on this week's beer talk. This is the part of the show. We talk about beer here. So, um, Dan, Dan brought the beer here. I got, I'm drinking water. What do you got? Live in person. Uh, I got a Narragansett fresh catch. Very nice. That was appropriate for the South shore here. That is good. Oh. Yeah. That was good. In Narragansett, they still make beer. It sounds like. They do. They do. Yeah.

[01:30:33] So used to be the El Cheapo beer. Is it? But is it, they've made their way up the quality stack yet? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's in my regular rotation. The, uh, the, the brew house there in Providence is, is a really good place to visit. Fun, fun scene. Uh, and you know, it's, uh, it's also not $20 for four cans. Right. Right. Yeah. They've been around forever. So you can trust them. Hey neighbors. Nick, what do you got?

[01:31:00] So, uh, nothing tonight live, but over the weekend I was having some brews trying to clean out my beer fridge. That seems to be just be racking up stuff. And this was kind of more out towards Dan's neck of the woods or one of his necks of the woods, but racket brewery racket river brewing company out in Tupper Lake, New York. Uh, so back out sort of towards the Adirondacks, but I had a light lager by them and it was really good. Really tasty. Nice. You'll have to try out paradox brewery. Uh, next time you're out there, Nick. So I I've been to, I've frequented paradox.

[01:31:27] Uh, every, every time we go up there, it's like our lunch drive up stop. Cause it's around three ish hours away. But yeah, we, now we, we hit paradox like a bunch and I love paradox brewing. Hold on. Great stuff. I don't have any in the fridge right now, which is very sad. So. All right. Well, I will get back on the beer train next week. I apologize. I feel very rude Dan for not, not your own work, but I apologize.

[01:31:58] I knew we should have gone left back there. Stomp. Don't worry. I know it's this way. I've got a feeling in my gut. Uh, are you sure you're not about to have a bowel emergency? Uh, totally. We got this, but I just blew out my hip, fell down that gully with my 40 year old micro spikes. Suck it up. Stomp. It's 4 PM. We're at 3,500 feet. We got nine miles back to the parking lot. Your leg may be broken.

[01:32:23] We got no cell connection and we can't feel our fingers, but we're finishing all of my list tonight. By the way, I need some water. I'm empty. I would if I could see what I'm doing, but my headlamp batteries are dead. You gotta be kidding me. What a chump. This is the last time I hike with you. Psh. Ha. Whatever, mister. Do you know me? I have a podcast. Whatever. Let's find out what Mike and Stomp have been hiking.

[01:32:53] Um, all right. This is the part of the show where we talk about recent hikes here. So Dan, you've been out anywhere good? Um, well, I was in Italy, uh, two weeks ago. I did two hikes over there, Mount Orsina, um, and, um, another one up above Lake Isio. Um, both, you know, pretty moderate 2000 feet, but just spectacular views, um, uh, overlooking the, uh, uh, uh, the sea there. Excellent.

[01:33:18] And then, uh, as far as the, uh, the, the trail conditions in, in Italy, is it difficult to, do you have to read Italian to understand where you are or how, how do you navigate up there? No. Um, a lot of the towns just have trail systems kind of built into the mountains and there, a lot of their trail, um, signs are just painted on the rocks where you'll see like a red stripe or red and white stripe. Um, and, uh, it's pretty fun. You know, I get to go over there each year and usually I'll find one of these trail systems

[01:33:48] and I have no idea where I'm going, but I usually end up on top of a mountain and pretty much every mountain in Italy seems to have a church on it. It's really wild. No, you're not up in the Dolomites. Are you, you're, you're, you're sort of mid country or where? Yeah. Kind of like the pre Alps. Okay. Two years ago, I did a hike, uh, up, um, in the Alps, uh, in, um, uh, the Lagna Alsesia. Uh, but this year was down near, um, kind of north of Milan and Verona.

[01:34:16] Uh, and it's one of the lakes, uh, called, uh, Lago de Isio, which is one lake over from Como. Uh, my partner and I did a beautiful hike. You know, you could see the Alps, all the snow covered mountains. It was, it was spectacular. It's really beautiful day. And they're, they're about a month ahead of us weather wise. I mean, it was, it was full on, you know, spring, if not early summer there. Awesome. And you get to, you get to go there every year. Yeah. I lead a group of, um, students from Cornell over there and we study family business while we're there.

[01:34:44] Italy has a, it's fair share of family businesses, especially ones that have been around for quite some time. So it's a, it's a nice little, uh, part of what I get to do each year. Do you ever get to go to any wineries or, or, uh, anything like that? All the time. All the time. I mean, that's, I mean, many of those wineries are family owned. Yeah. Um, some of them have been around for a hundred, if not 200 years, uh, but also things like, um, grappa, uh, this year we visited Nardini grappa, which is about 240 years old, a lot of cheese.

[01:35:14] Um, olive oils. Yeah. All of that. Yeah. All of that. Sounds awesome. I got, I, someday I will hit you up when I plan that trip because I got to get out there. I, we're, we're doing one in November that's open to the general public. So I'll send you the link. Oh yeah. Let me know. Maybe as far as the trails themselves, is it like kind of just flat dearth paths and gravel or like what's, what's sort of the vibe? Yeah. They're, I mean, they're pretty well maintained, although, you know, some of these are not well traveled.

[01:35:43] Um, so, um, but yeah, at least in the sections that I am, I mean, I'm not going way up in the woods. Um, you know, my travel is kind of limited to where I can get to. Um, but, uh, you know, there's a, there's a real good hiking community over there and in Lago di Isio where we were a lot of biking, mountain biking, a lot of climbing, a lot of, uh, via ferrata up that way. Um, so it's, I mean, you pick your adventure. Yeah.

[01:36:08] I've read that you can get tours where, and actually the, um, uh, the Ghira d'Italia is, um, coming up soon. I think it's in May, but I've read that you can do tours too. If you want to do like a road bike, they'll, they'll have, they have services where you can, you can bike from one town to another, and then they'll set you up with, they'll bring your, your, your luggage and everything and set you up with the next hotel. So it's, it sounds pretty cool. Yeah. And just, just one last question, sort of the Italy vein, but, um, and I don't know if

[01:36:37] this is just because the pictures I've seen of people that have visited there, like I was looking, you had some gorgeous pictures up on Instagram from it, but is Italy like, is there not a ton of like forest there? Cause I feel like it's always like open peaks and hills and valleys that it seems like there's just amazing views. If you get up to like two or 3000 feet, like everywhere. Yeah. I mean the big mountains are really in the North, right? You know, the, the pre Alps, the Dolomites, uh, and the Alps, um, the central part of the country is very much, you know, it's kind of like the, the middle of our country.

[01:37:03] That's very much, you know, the, the Piedmont area with all the wineries and, and very agricultural. Um, there are some mountains in Tuscany, um, and, uh, not huge peaks. Uh, but then when I was down on the coast, kind of down near Rapallo and, uh, Cinque Terra, um, there's some pretty good peaks there. I mean, probably, you know, in the range of, you know, two to 5,000 feet and they're, they're right up against, um, the, the sea there. So it's, it's pretty dramatic, uh, um, topography. Yeah.

[01:37:33] Maybe that's part of it too, is just the topography over there. It seems like it's just very like up and down very dramatically, like even close to the ocean with some of those like cities built into sort of like almost like clear walls and stuff. It's beautiful. Yeah. And the highways just, they just go right through the mountains, right? Like you, you think, how do they do that? And, you know, it's kind of like Pennsylvania if you've ever driven on some of the, uh, interstate in Pennsylvania that, you know, just kind of cut right through the mountains.

[01:38:14] It's time for Slasher's guest of the week. Very cool. Very cool. Awesome. Nick, I feel like we should just go right into Dan's segment and we can like, if we can get to, um, our, our recent hikes, we'll do it, but let's just run it up on time. So, so Dan, why don't you, um, if you could start just like give a little bit of background,

[01:38:39] introduce yourself and maybe just tell the story from your perspective on how you get to, you got to know us and then I'll going to tell my version of it and Nick can also chime in. So, yeah. So, you know, I've been hiking for much of my life. Um, I've always had a love of the outdoors growing up in, you know, boys groups similar to, um, the boy Scouts that always got me outside getting camping. Uh, when I came, I moved to Vermont, uh, in 1988 to attend school there.

[01:39:07] Uh, one of the jobs I had was, um, doing high elevation, um, uh, forest decline research on camel's hump. So every day, uh, in summer for two summers, I hiked camel's hump. And, uh, that's when I started to understand like what some of these longer trails were the, you know, the long trail passes right over the summit of camel's hump. Um, but I hadn't really done any distance hiking. Uh, and then, you know, kind of, as we were talking about with the Appalachian trail before

[01:39:36] there, there just comes a time where you're like, look, either put up or shut up. And, uh, so I got it in my mind. I wanted to do the long trail. Um, so in 2007 was the first year. Um, I did the long trail. I went South to North and it really was a, you know, a transformative experience. It's, it's three weeks, you know, so it's not forever, but also it allows you enough time to really unplug, uh, and kind of get in that groove of through hiking, which is very different than peak bagging or going out for day long hikes.

[01:40:06] I mean, I love them both. Um, and that's kind of what set me on the path of, you know, um, you know, beginning to tackle all of these other peaks. Um, met a friend, Brian Deegan, who invited me to what, you know, we've called Deegan Fest, which is really just a, uh, a winter gathering, uh, in the Adirondacks of a bunch of us friends. And that sort of set me on the path of, um, you know, really wanting to do the winter

[01:40:32] peaks, uh, over there in the Adirondacks and spent, you know, the better part of probably four or five years tackling those. I set a goal of finishing my 46 on my 46th birthday. Um, and, uh, stuck to that. And, uh, on, on February 7th, um, uh, I was able to hike a street and nine and finished my, my first round of 46 and then finished the winter 46. And then once that finished up, you know, I started hiking over, uh, in New Hampshire

[01:40:59] more and kind of had the same progression of, you know, finishing the 48 and now trying to finish the winter 48. Um, somewhere along the way, I stumbled into you there, there is a podcast in the Adirondacks called the 46 by 46, oddly enough. Um, and, uh, um, and, you know, I'm sure at some point your, your feed sort of popped in my mind and I really gravitated towards yours cause I liked the format of both talking about hikes, talking about rescue, but, you know, just sort of the, uh, the ensemble

[01:41:29] cast that, uh, you put together every week here. And, um, I reached out to you this, this past fall, um, with the goal of finishing the winter 48. I had started something called Vanderfest, um, as a, uh, corollary to, to, um, uh, Deeganfest, which is always in the Adirondacks. Uh, but Vanderfest has always been in New Hampshire up till now. Uh, and so we had a great plan to, to tackle that. And, um, but weather just didn't cooperate this year.

[01:41:55] I still need to finish the bonds and I need to finish Jefferson and, um, uh, tried to get out and do the bonds, uh, over the Christmas break. Um, weather didn't cooperate there and, you know, the day we did Jefferson, you've talked about on the podcast before, but, uh, um, it's just been great getting to know you guys and, uh, kind of being part of this community here. Yeah. Yeah. And just for the listeners. So Dan had reached out over email and invited us. So the, um, Deeganfest and Vanderfest are just for people to understand.

[01:42:23] It's basically like a guy's weekend, I would say, you know, whatever you, you rent the house, you got anywhere from, I don't know how many people were there, probably eight to 10 people. And then it's just a good time. Bunch of people that go out and, you know, pick a, do a day hike, go back. And, um, I would say the food spread was amazing, but I will tell you, Dan, like the first, when we got the email, Stomp got the email. Cause I don't watch, I don't watch the email that as much as I should shared it. And then, uh, I think me and Nick got on it and I, I, I think, I don't know what the

[01:42:53] exchange was. I was basically like, this could be a good time for sure. But I'm like, this could also be the opening scene of a horror movie. You know, it's like coming to the woods and hang out with us or whatever, but no, it's hurt. He could be a nice guy or he could be a serial killer. One of the two. But, um, no, we met you at the Codd parking lot and did the, did the hike up to Jefferson. And then, um, that was such a perfect day. I think everybody was in sync as far as like, okay, it's today's not the day. Let's go back and enjoy ourselves. So you guys just put on like an awesome spread.

[01:43:23] And, um, I forget what was the drink that you gave us? The smoky drink. The smoky old fashioned. Yeah. So good. Incredible. Yeah. You had a, you had a fantastic beer selection. I believe there were oysters. We missed the pizza cause we had to go home. Yeah. Yeah. So I do, I have a portable wood-fired pizza oven. So that's become a, a staple for both Deegan fest and Vanderfest. And really this kind of group of hikers, we're all good friends as well.

[01:43:48] Um, and so there have been a proliferation of fests, you know, it feels like anytime we get together to do a hike, it becomes some sort of fest. So now there's been do back fest and gobbles fest, uh, and, uh, even a Sherpa fest this past year, which went over to Nepal. Right. Um, so it's, you know, we all love hiking. Uh, we, we really enjoy each other. So, you know, why not get together and, you know, make an event out of it. Right. Yeah. No, we had a great time. And, uh, you know, when we were, we were all driving home, we, we almost had a calamity.

[01:44:18] We were, I almost crashed the car. But other than, other than that, we all agreed, Peter and our friend Peter was with us, but we all agree. We were like, Oh, if we get invited back, we're definitely going. So it was, it's a good group of guys. So you're definitely invited. Actually, we've already scheduled Deegan fest for 2027 because we got one of the back country huts in the Adirondacks called, um, Peggy O'Brien camp. You have to reserve that a year ahead of time. And, uh, we already snagged that for, uh, for February. Awesome. Yeah.

[01:44:45] I think it's a good thing to like, as you get older, like I had a period when my kids were younger where, you know, I have my high school friends and I didn't really stay in touch with a lot of my college friends, but I do think it's, it's, it, it can be a trap where if you're in that, like Nick's a good age for that example, like young kids, you can get sucked into your family situation and then 10 years can go by. And the next thing you know, like you're like your friends have sort of spread out and maybe you're not in contact with them anymore.

[01:45:11] And, you know, some friends are a season in life and some are forever, but, um, I do find with hiking, like I've reconnected with a larger group of friends, which has been nice and it's, it's, it's a good thing. So I think hiking definitely gives that opportunity for, uh, for staying connected with people, even if it's only once every six months or something. Yeah. Yeah. And this group, you know, it's, it, there's no egos there, right? You know, there's no competition. Um, we all, um, get along really well.

[01:45:40] The food is, you know, just really, you know, the, the cherry on top, you know, we, we, we enjoy, we, we make our own meals. A couple of the guys make wine, a couple of guys make their own beer. You know, the oysters came up from Matt, uh, plucked, you know, from, uh, Buzzards Bay that morning. Um, so that's, that's just kind of the, the theme when we get together is, uh, everybody chooses a meal and just kind of figures out what to do, whether it's breakfast, lunch or dinner. Right. Right. No, it was a good time. Um, great.

[01:46:08] And then, so you're, uh, when you finish, so you've got the bonds and then you have Jefferson to, is that the, that's the Northeast one 11 winter are you done with, or is that just the winter, the 48 winters? Yeah. So that'll be the New Hampshire 48 winter list. Um, and as I looked at the one 11 list, I've done, um, uh, Baxter and Hamelin in, uh, Maine for winter. And I think there's another maybe 11 on that list. Yeah. North brother. Yeah.

[01:46:37] South, North or South. I think it's North brother. I can check. Uh, and there's actually still two down in the Catskills, which I haven't done that are on that list. Um, of course I've done the Vermont ones with the exception of Killington. I haven't done Killington in winter. Um, so I'm probably at about a, maybe 98, 99 of the one 11, although there's actually one 15 on the one 11 list. So, uh, when I was looking, there's only about 125 who've actually finished the winter one 11.

[01:47:06] So I thought that was kind of a good next step once I, once I finished New Hampshire. Right. No, that's a, that's a, yeah, it's an epic list to complete. I remember, um, when we were at the AMC ceremony last year, um, I can't remember exactly the witty joke, but it was sort of like these people that if you do that list, you've spent a lot of time hiking. And if you also spent a lot of time driving, it doesn't really matter if you live anywhere in the Northeast, like something, whether it's driving to the Catskills or driving up

[01:47:32] to Baxter or driving over to the Adirondacks, maybe more the Adirondacks in my case. Um, but like it, it's a lot of driving to get out and get all those peaks and to do it in winter. You need a lot of good weather windows. I remember, um, we were texting a little bit back and forth and I talked around the podcast bailing on cold and, and you were telling me it took you like three times to get Iroquois out in the Adirondacks. So I'm like, okay, I don't feel so bad. I'm like, just kind of shut up and be like, it's, it's, it was still a fun day out. Don't be too bitter about it. Take it too seriously. Like it's going to take time.

[01:48:00] I don't have, I definitely have a long-term goal of doing the one 11 or one 15 in all seasons. I don't know about winter ever just logistically. Um, but it's, it's a big accomplishment and logistically like Baxter, you start getting into some of those trips. Like that's really, you get really good to have, even if you plan things out correctly, um, and it definitely, you need a weather window to do it as we kind of saw, even with your Jefferson trip. So, yeah. And I think one of the reasons these fests are fun is because there is a lot of driving involved.

[01:48:29] So if you're going to go somewhere, spend a couple of days and knock out as many peaks as you can. You know, I, I lived in Vermont for a number of years and that really got me over to the Adirondacks and started me in New Hampshire. But, um, I'm, you know, I split my time between Ithaca and Wareham now and, you know, it's, it's three, four hours to get anywhere with, with, you know, significant elevation, whether it's the Adirondacks or the whites. Um, so, you know, my strategy has been, you know, kind of go up there and just, you know,

[01:48:56] find a place to stay, um, you know, three, four nights and crank out as many as I can while I'm there. Well, I did want to take, well, we want, we wanted to take the opportunity to, um, spread a little bit of knowledge on the Adirondacks. And I think you actually came up with a good idea, Dan, around like, um, comparing the Adirondacks to the whites so people can have a frame of reference. Cause I think a lot of our listeners, they know the White Mountains. There's definitely a subset of people that have been to New York and been to the Adirondacks,

[01:49:25] but not as many, but you put together like this nice list. And I'm really like, I got to kind of step back on this because I think Nick, Nick has a lot more knowledge of the Adirondacks than I do. Um, but why don't you guys kind of go through this a little bit and try to educate the listeners a bit on the, uh, the Adirondacks as it compares to the whites? Yeah. You know, it's, it's funny. And this is just, you know, based on my own observations, I feel like there's surprisingly little crossover between the whites and the Adirondacks.

[01:49:55] Um, and you know, there are some people like, you know, Nick is a great example of that. And I think Vermont was always a great sort of place cause you could kind of choose either direction. But, um, I was talking with one fellow hiker who had done a lot in New Hampshire and a little bit in, in, um, the Adirondacks and the way he put it was, you know, they, they just have different personalities, right? Everyone always wants to say this one's more difficult or this one's more challenging, but I think they're all very challenging.

[01:50:23] Um, and they're similar lists, right? 46 to 48. So it makes for really good comparisons. Um, and there are certain hikes that I think kind of align pretty well when you think about like Mount Allen or Allen mountain in the Adirondacks is that classic 18 miles just to get a peak with really no views. And, you know, that lines up pretty well with, with Owl's head, you know, here in New Hampshire. Um, there's the beginner hikes, you know, in, in the Adirondacks, it's Cascade and Porter which is, you know, the entry for a lot of people into hiking.

[01:50:53] Um, it was my first winter peak. Um, and that kind of got me going on that. And, you know, here it seems like most people, you know, target Tecumseh or Pierce's that kind of early, like three, four mile hike, you know, gives you that little taste and really sort of, um, uh, piques your interest. Awesome. And Nick, I guess, I don't know, you have a better perspective than I do, but does that line up with your view? Is it like there's not as much crossover as people think? Yeah. It's, it's really surprising.

[01:51:21] It's funny that you brought that up, Dan, cause it, it, I would have thought more people, like I would even compare it to, so like our, say like our sort of click of like a lot of the folks that we, our text message chain that we have going around with our group, um, out of that group, I think Steve and I are the only two people that have really hiked in the Adirondacks out of like 13 or so different hikers, um, in the 48. And I think one thing is the drive. And the other thing is, I don't know if it's really just the drive gets a lot of people or people just don't realize that the Adirondack.

[01:51:50] And it's funny because I know like you look on social media or things like that, like the Adirondacks have a huge following. Like, I don't know if it's bigger than the whites or it's smaller. I feel like the whites get more attention just cause I'm out washing and sort of the mystique around that. But like, I had no idea until, um, kind of at one point where during COVID mass in New York, you could travel. So me and Ash went out there and I kind of like found, I'm like, Oh, let's find a hike in the Adirondacks. I've heard about the Adirondacks before it would have giant of the Valley.

[01:52:18] And that kind of just opened my eyes to like, and we had a beautiful day and I'm like, Oh, that's my Mars. And I'm like, Oh, there's like really big peaks out. I mean, comparatively speaking, but like white mountain ask mountains out here, you don't have the Alpine zone. There's nothing like the Northern presidentials. I would say in terms of openness, um, that you like in the Adirondacks, but I mean, there's incredibly steep trails, crazy valleys. Um, there's things that I think the whites don't really have like avalanche past.

[01:52:46] Just, I don't think there's anything that exists in the whites really like that. Um, it's a totally like you, I like your, your terminology of they have different personalities. I think there's a lot of similarities, but different personalities. I personally think, and I've shouted out on here a lot that the state of New York had a tremendous foresight in creating that whole park when they did. Um, it's managed, I think a lot better than a lot of the whites are. It has its sort of grievances with the AMR parking lot and things like that. Um, kind of just like the whites do in certain areas.

[01:53:14] Parking definitely seems to be a thing, but overall it's impressively managed in the foresight that the state had, um, and the people of New York to create that when they did is really impressive. Yeah. The Adirondack high peaks wilderness area. Uh, I think I have this right. It's, it's larger than, um, uh, Yosemite and Yellowstone and glacier combined from a, from landmass area. It's huge, but it's, you know, it's public private, you know, so you have, you have, you know, public lands in there, but it's also private.

[01:53:41] So that you get into a lot of easements and a lot of, uh, you know, understanding where the trail goes and, and, and kind of respecting private property. They're also much more sort of compact. And by that, I mean, like there it's, it's the, it's the high peaks wilderness area. They're not as sort of dispersed as, um, uh, they seem to be here in the white. So like when you were on giant, like you can kind of see them all in at one, in one shot. Um, and, but yet they're kind of hard to get to, right?

[01:54:11] Like you really got to get into the wilderness to get to some of the peaks. And, and so the, the Adirondacks have this reputation of, you know, some really long hikes, you know, sometimes you're hiking four or five miles just to get to what effectively is the trailhead and begin climbing. So 15, 18 mile days in the Adirondacks are pretty normal. Um, you have these clusters of mountains, uh, like the Dix mountains, the Sewards, the Santonones,

[01:54:38] where if you're going to go that far in, you might as well just get them all while you're in there. So you're just adding miles upon the miles you already have. Uh, but you also, you know, you walk out with, you know, three, four, five peaks at a time. So, um, I think, uh, they, they do have that great sort of layered effect. And I think you're, you're right in that there, there's not as much above tree line, right? So I think in the whites, um, you know, that's always in the back of your mind when you're

[01:55:06] hiking, like, you know, how much above tree line, how many miles, what's the winds going to be like, what's the weather forecast. Um, the Adirondacks, it's more like, how far am I? You know, we, uh, my friend Andy and Drew and I, we did Marcy Gray and Skylight and we had finished all three peaks and we were feeling pretty good about ourselves. And we looked around, we're like, holy shit, we still got nine miles to get out of here. And it was like, you know, three o'clock in the afternoon in the winter. It's like, we got to get moving.

[01:55:32] Um, so, you know, that's always sort of in the back of your mind and the Adirondacks is how many miles, how am I going to get out of here? What kind of daylight do we have? Um, temperature is always a concern. I've, I've canceled hikes, beautiful hikes, um, in the Adirondacks just because it's so incredibly cold. Um, you don't quite get the winds like you get in New Hampshire. Um, you know, twice this year, I canceled hikes in New Hampshire just because of the winds on relatively decent days where you're just like, yeah, I don't know if I want to be

[01:56:00] above treeline when the winds are howling at a hundred miles an hour. You don't quite get that in the Adirondacks as much. Yeah. And, um, to throw it back to sort of the size. So, and I'm guilty too, of just going really to the high peaks. I haven't explored the rest of the Adirondacks, but the Adirondack park itself in New York state is 5% bigger than the state of New Hampshire. That's how big the Adirondack park itself is. Um, we're talking the high peaks wilderness kind of area in that region is a certain subset of that.

[01:56:26] And there's other mountains and really other beautiful things to see that I'm completely guilty of just avoiding and going blinders on and, and, uh, and kind of going for these high peaks. Um, and the other thing in regards to temperature, I just know, cause I nerd out on weather. If you look around Lake Placid in that area, statistically, and I think it's just because it's further from the ocean, it is colder. They're standing temperature a hundred percent just at not, not sea level, but at base level of most trailheads is going to be colder than what we probably have on the whites and

[01:56:55] average, even up in Gorm and Berlin and like areas like that. Um, you were mentioning too, while you don't have the wind and the exposure in, you can comment on this better than I can cause you've done it more in winter, but my, um, I haven't looked up the stats on this one, but my impression is that there is way more snowpack in the Adirondacks for longer than there is in the whites. It, it, it lasts longer. Um, I don't know if it's Lake effect snow exactly that drives a lot of that, but I, the amount of snow that I've seen in places in the Adirondacks, like for example, going out to cold in this

[01:57:24] winter, like just signs completely buried, like trail registers almost completely buried. You see the roof of a trail register that's like probably seven and a half feet tall, um, in places like it's, it's pretty incredible. Yeah. I would say there's definitely a lot more snowpack there. Um, Saranac Lake, which is just West of, um, Lake Placid is always one of the coldest places in the nation. You know, it's always the outlier at all times of year. Like even, even in the spring and summer, it's cooler.

[01:57:51] Um, and you know, there have been numerous hikes, uh, in the Adirondacks where you're just plowing through two feet of powder. Um, and, uh, we did cold in last year for Deegan fest and, uh, we went up, uh, from Avalanche Lake and it was one of the most grueling climbs we'd ever done. Um, we were with others and we, it was a classic, like we had to trade off every, every 50 yards or so because it was, there was just so much snow piled in there.

[01:58:16] Um, and then I don't know too, um, if we, obviously we can't talk about all the Adirondack hikes, I'm like maybe halfway through, but, um, did you want to kind of maybe just give a high level comparison to people that have never been out there? Like what, so, so what's like Marcy and sort of those big hikes, like Algonquin, what's that like compared to say the tree line, sort of above tree line experience that you're going to see on like Washington or things like that. Cause I guess sort of the highest peak sort of comparison, like what you're dealing with. Yeah.

[01:58:45] You know, again, I think distance to the summit is, is important here. Um, I think the closest, um, approach to Marcy, which is the highest peak, uh, in the Adirondacks is probably seven miles. That's from the, uh, high peaks visitor center. Um, you know, Washington is a beast in and of itself. So it's not the miles as much as, you know, just the elevation and the exposure above. Uh, there's definitely a tree line on, um, Marcy, uh, and some of the surrounding peaks,

[01:59:14] uh, but it's a little more manageable, right? Like you can kind of get up and get down pretty quickly. Um, the one thing that always blows my mind comparing Marcy to Washington, um, Washington was first summited, uh, I think, uh, almost, uh, let me see, what do I have here? Um, uh, almost like 200 plus years ago, 1642. Um, the first summit of Marcy wasn't until 1837.

[01:59:39] So almost a 200 year difference between, you know, those peaks being, uh, explored. You know, of course there was the, uh, you know, Crawford path all the way up and there's been hotels on the top of, uh, Washington for, for quite some time, not quite the same, you know, on, on Marcy. Um, and you know, they're each has their own club or, you know, kind of, um, peaks, you

[02:00:04] know, the 46 of, um, uh, of the Adirondacks was founded actually by a church group out of Troy. Uh, and they would go up. It was almost a social type thing, um, where they went up and, and, um, went hiking. They, they actually had to prove they made it to the summit so they could, um, it was their excuse for missing church. It was originally called the, uh, the 46 years of Troy out of Grace United Methodist church. Um, and, uh, the, the, the first summiters were actually, um, uh, George and Bob Marshall.

[02:00:34] Bob Marshall went on to found the wilderness society. Uh, and they were sort of well-to-do people from the city and they hired a local guy, uh, Herbert Clark, uh, to help them climb all 46. Um, and, uh, and they, most of these were trellis at the time, right? So they, they were bushwhacking quite a ways in there. And that was really the kickoff of the 46. Um, and you know, the 48 of course followed soon after that, but, um, you know, new technology

[02:01:00] has sort of, you know, revealed that not all 46 are actually over 4,000 feet. There are four that are under, uh, one is under almost by 150 feet, uh, Cuchacarraga. Um, and then one is over 4,000 feet, McNaughton, and it's not even included on the list. It's sort of the asterisk. Uh, you can climb it if you want, but, um, it doesn't, uh, it's not included in the list. Um, it's still the one that I do want to climb that I have not climbed, the one kind of technical

[02:01:28] 4,000 footer that I haven't made it, but you have kind of the same thing here, right? You know, I think Tecumseh has sort of been on the list and off the list. The original list, I think was only 36 here in the whites. Uh, and then that was finally updated to what, you know, is now the 48. So, you know, I think it, uh, it's, it's a valid comparison. And, um, I think anyone who finishes them in any season is still, um, you know, it's still a great accomplishment. Yeah. Yeah.

[02:01:54] The, the numbers here too on the, uh, so the list hiking that you have here, it's, it's, it's interesting how close they are. So the 4,000 footer finishes on the 46 is 17,000. And then the 48 is around 19,000. So they're pretty close. And then the winter numbers are pretty close as well. The 46ers is around 1250. And then in the winter, uh, whites is around 1130. So pretty close.

[02:02:23] And then dog finishers, they don't track them in the 46ers like they do for the whites. So they stopped doing that in the seventies, but I, those numbers are pretty close. Yeah, they are. They are. Um, I have, and again, these are just my observations. I don't know if I have the numbers to back them up. Um, you know, gritters are much more common in New Hampshire. There, there are some people I've run into in, in, um, the Adirondacks who are doing the grid, but it seems like almost everyone you meet, um, is somewhere on the grid or at least thinking about the grid.

[02:02:52] Um, you know, that, that was one thing I didn't learn about until I got over to the whites, like, okay, what, what is a grid? And, uh, you know, I've run into some of these hiking legends that, you know, I've done the grid multiple times now as well. And I just, again, like, what do you, what do you do? How do you get out there that much? Yeah. And then some other things here. So this is good. So the, um, let me look at these here. So, all right. So the big hike, you've got the great range traverse in the Adirondacks.

[02:03:21] So we've got the presidential traverse. So what's the difference between these two? Yeah. So mileage, um, a little bit longer, um, in, uh, uh, which one are we looking at? The great range traverse. Yeah. So the great range traverse a little bit longer, about the same elevation. Um, I did the great range traverse, uh, two years ago, um, with, with most of that kind of Deegan fest crew, um, a little bit more elevation on the great range traverse.

[02:03:49] I think again, with the presidential traverse, you're, you know, you're above tree line for almost that entire section. So, you know, weather is always going to be sort of the, uh, um, uh, the varying factor there. Um, you certainly have to worry about that, um, in, um, the Adirondacks. Uh, but it's, it's one of those where, you know, you have to hike out a long way to get to Marcy and then you come all the way back across, um, Haystack, um, across basin, Saddleback,

[02:04:17] Gothix, upper, lower Wolfjaw. And then there are actually some sub 4,000 foot peaks that are included on that traverse as well. Wow. And then you've got here, the dreaded hike, which, you know, obviously most of us look at Owl's head and go like, that's the long one, not a lot of views and it's a long slog, but you have a Mount Allen here as the, uh, the equivalent in the Adirondacks. Yeah.

[02:04:46] I put another one, you know, like if I think about inviting you over there, Mike, um, you know, like what's the one hike or an experienced hiker that you would take them on? So they get a real feel for it. You know, I think in the whites, um, I think about Madison and Adams, you know, those are good ones to get you above tree line. Um, they're, you know, they're pretty doable. You know, the mileage isn't gonna, isn't gonna kill you. Uh, I think a comparable one in the Adirondacks would be Giant and Rocky Peak Ridge, you know, Nick's done Giant, get you above tree line.

[02:05:15] It's four miles, you know, pretty, pretty solid banger up. And then you got to go over and back to, to Rocky Peak Ridge. Uh, but when you're on Giant, you just have this, this massive view of the entire great range and, and all of the high peaks in front of you. Um, I think those are like for a starter hike for people who, you know, have, have hiked before. Right. I'm sold. I'm sold on that. You can, you can mark me down. Um, and then the hiking hub.

[02:05:41] So we have North Conway and Lincoln, and then, you know, you could argue, um, you know, Bethlehem and Gorham as well. But, um, in the Adirondacks, it's Lake Placid and then Keene Valley. Yeah. And, you know, Route 73, um, leaves the, uh, the New York or the, um, the, what's called the Northway 87 North heads to Keene Valley and it goes all the way out to, um, uh, to Lake Placid. You also have Keene in there as well, but really the, the Adirondacks, like the high peak

[02:06:08] region, there's four main, what I will call sort of, you know, trailheads. There's the garden, uh, which is in Keene Valley. Of course you have, uh, you know, the high peaks, um, information center and the Adirondack lodge out of Lake Placid. And then around the South end of, uh, the high peaks region, you have, uh, what's called upper works, uh, and then you have, uh, Elk Lake. Um, and those are really sort of the four primary access points that'll get you into most of the high peaks region.

[02:06:36] Um, but on the South side of, um, of the high peaks area, there's, there's like really nothing down there. It's pretty desolate. So if you want to go out to dinner, if you want a place to stay, it's going to be somewhere between Keene Valley and Lake Placid. Okay. And then, uh, the other thing I, and this is just as an outsider, my impression of the Adirondack, much more stringent around rules and regulations than the whites. See, I feel like the whites are more loosey goosey in the Adirondacks are like, there's

[02:07:05] certain rules that you don't mess with and you, you get, you've got a little experience there, but the big ones are snowshoes in the winter are non-negotiable. They're absolutely required. And then bear canisters are required for any overnight camping, no matter what. And that's always been that way. Right. Yeah. So I'll tell you a story of how I learned this. Um, uh, I had just finished the long trail with my friend, Paul, um, and we wanted to keep hiking. Uh, so we said, well, let's, let's go do something in the Adirondacks. So we just picked a bunch of peaks.

[02:07:34] Uh, we went over, went in through Elk Lake, um, didn't have any bear cans. We just figured we would, you know, hang with a bear bag like we had along the long trail. Uh, and that first year was fine. Ran into a few Rangers who asked us if we had bear canisters and we didn't. And they said, you really should. The next year I went back by myself without a bear canister, ran into a Ranger again. He asked me, I said, no, he said, you need to hike out and rent one at the high peaks information center. I said, no, I'm not going to do all of that. So I continue my hike.

[02:08:03] I kind of went around Avalanche Lake and Lake Colden. And the last night of my hike, um, I was at a lean to was, it was actually Labor Day, uh, the evening of Labor Day, the place had been deserted. It was beautiful night. And that same Ranger came up to me, um, found me and he was doing his patrol and said, did you ever get your bear canister? I said, no, I didn't. It's my last night. I don't even have any food left. He asked me for my ID. I said, no, you know, I'm, you know, I'm just out here to have, you know, kind of have some time alone.

[02:08:32] So he stormed off. I was getting ready to leave the next morning, um, six o'clock having my coffee and up walks this man dressed in complete, uh, military fatigues. And it was an Adirondack, a DEC Ranger. Uh, and he instantly sort of confronted me, said, do you have any weapons or knives? I said, well, I have a Swiss army knife. I told him. And I, he says, put that on the deck right now. So he kind of reads me the riot act. He says, pack up where we're leaving.

[02:09:02] I'm like, we're leaving. I said, yep. Or he said, yep. So he marches me out five miles to, um, the upper works, gets in his truck, um, pulls it in front of my truck in case I, you know, thought I was going to make a run for it or something. And he sets about writing three tickets to me. These are, um, DEC Rangers have the same authority as a state police officer in New York state. So he writes me three tickets. Um, one was failure to sign in at the register. One was failure to comply with a park ranger.

[02:09:32] One was failure to have a bear canister. And he says, follow me. I said, well, where we're going? And he says, we're going to North Creek, um, uh, to the town clerk. So we, we drive all the way out to North Creek. We go to this town clerk's office, walk in. There's a woman in a tank top and shorts. And he kind of chats her up. He says, why don't you go wait outside? I'll call you in when the judge is here. I said, okay. Calls me in about 20 minutes later. The judge is here. It's the same woman in a black robe.

[02:10:02] I kid you not. So, so all of a sudden I'm in this impromptu court and she reads those charges. She says, how do you plead? I said, well, if I plead, um, guilty, what will happen? She says, I'll assess the fine. I said, well, how much is the fine? She says, I haven't decided that yet. I said, well, what if I plead, um, innocent? Uh, well then, um, we'll set a warrant for a future court date and you'll have to come back and prove it. I said, fine, uh, guilty.

[02:10:30] Um, so she assessed a fine of $175 per ticket. So it was a $550 fine. Uh, and so from, from that day on either, I don't hike, uh, when a bear canister or I don't stay overnight when a bear canister is needed. Uh, and if I do, I have one with me, but they take their role seriously. They can write you a ticket on the trail, uh, for bear canisters and or failure to wear snowshoes, uh, in winter.

[02:10:56] I think it's above, um, six inches, uh, which is essentially most of the winter. Right. Right. So they don't mess around and you can, you can testify to that. Yes. So, yeah. And do you, I've been asked this too, do you know, Dan specifically, if it's like, I feel like it's more, you need snowshoes on you, not necessarily have to be wearing them. Cause at least one of the Rangers I got checked out of the lodge one time was like, you just need them on your pack. He's like, you're probably not going to need them until you get further out. I think it was when Ash and I were maybe doing street and I or something, but.

[02:11:24] Yeah, I would say in some of the higher use areas, especially going out of, um, you know, the high peaks information center, um, where that, that trail is packed pretty well up to Marcy dam. Uh, I'm sure they're a little more lenient, but, but they do often, especially on the weekends, they will have people at, um, the, uh, at the, um, the sign in checking your gear. And, uh, if you don't have, um, snowshoes, I don't know if they'll turn you away, but certainly you, you are not allowed to, and you, you can be written a ticket if you run into a DEC

[02:11:53] ranger out there. And I've, I've seen them out there. They, they do kind of make the rounds from time to time. If you're, if you're carrying snowshoes and micro spikes, will they tell you like, you better not wear those micro spikes or how do they react? Yeah, I think it's really an etiquette thing, you know, cause there is, there's a, there's a big skiing community over there as well, backcountry skiing community. Um, and so I think it's really a matter of like keeping the trails manageable. So again, in high traffic areas where you're not post tolling.

[02:12:23] Um, there's probably not, um, there's probably a little more leniency. Uh, but as soon as you, you know, get into situations where, you know, you are going to be post tolling or the snow is, is not consolidated or, or wet. Um, they want you in snowshoes so that you have kind of a good, even, um, even tread. Right. I'm glad you brought up the backcountry skiers thing. I mean, so when I, on both my attempts to cold and I've seen more people in backcountry skis than I saw in hiking gear, which is kind of like, I maybe saw two or three hikers when

[02:12:53] I went out this year and I saw like seven or eight people with backcountry skis getting it. Cause of those distances, like Dan, as you mentioned, I think a lot of people, um, if you know how to do it, tend to kind of ski out to places and then they'll stash something and then hike up or, or just, or they're just skiing lines off cold. And I crossed the guy that was trying to go up to the angel slides, which was cool. Cause he mentioned he was reading Steve Smith's blog about hiking up there when he was looking for a route to get to below it. Um, but also across people that were planning on skiing one of the slides down cold and which was pretty gnarly to hear.

[02:13:22] The slides are a big feature there. I mean, there are definitely slides in New Hampshire as well, but, um, you know, there are guidebooks just on the slides of, of the Adirondacks and, you know, the skiers love those, the climbers love them as well. Like some of them are great kind of, um, low angle, um, climbing routes as well. Um, but almost all of the high peaks have, you know, some form of slide going off of them. All right. Well, Dan, we're almost up at time here. So we, we've learned a couple of things here.

[02:13:50] So we're invited back to, um, to the, the, the fests, the various, um, Deegan fest or Vanderfest. We're invited back, which is good. But then Nick, we have to bring our, we have to bring it's not competitive, but we got to bring our game with the food situation. Yes. So we, we are doing, um, Paul, who you haven't met, uh, he's from Ohio. He's coming back this summer, um, for you, Mike, uh, he's doing all five dicks in a day. Okay.

[02:14:18] Um, so that's a, that's a pretty epic hike. And he also wants to do the sewers. So if you want to get over there this summer, uh, we've got, uh, we've got a place to stay and some mountains to climb. Yeah. Yeah. Stay in touch for sure. It's always tricky in the summer. You know, the kids are back from college and like the, there's, there's definitely some weekends where I'm, I'm already committed, but, uh, and we're doing a Katahdin thing as well, um, which you can jump in on if you want. We'll, we'll send you the info, but, um, yeah, let me stay in touch for sure. But the winter stuff I'm in a hundred percent. So, um, but this was great.

[02:14:47] And then you're invited back to the podcast in any time you, you seem to have a good timing of this and everything. You definitely have some experience. And so, yeah. And we didn't even get into a lot of different stuff that I wanted to talk about too. So we, we kind of touched in Italy and well, we've got to have you back at some point. I'll be your ADK connection. Yeah. Yeah. And then we'll also update everybody. So you have Jefferson and the bonds to do in the winter. We're around. We definitely got to time that out and make sure that we're there for your finish.

[02:15:13] And, and, uh, you know, you've, you've got some more stories, so we'll have you back. This was a good, you get a little taste of what the podcast is about and you did great. Awesome. Thanks guys. Thank you, Dan. Appreciate it. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed the show, you can subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Podbean, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[02:15:44] If you want to learn more about the topics covered in today's show, please check out the show notes and safety information at slasherpodcast.com. That's S L A S R podcast.com. You can also follow the show on Facebook and Instagram. We hope you'll join us next week for another great show. Until then, on behalf of Mike and Stump, get out there and crush some mega heat.

[02:16:13] Now covered in scratches, blisters, and bug bites. Chris staff wanted to complete his most challenging day hike ever. Fish and game officers say the hiker from Florida activated an emergency beacon yesterday morning. Fish and trail when the weather started to get worse. Officials say the snow was piled up to three feet in some spots and there was a wind chill of minus one degree. And there's three words to describe this race. Do we all know who they are?

[02:16:45] Lieutenant James Neeland, New Hampshire Fish and Game. Lucinda, thanks for being with us today. Thanks for having me. What are some of the most common mistakes you see people make when they're heading out on the trails to hike here in New Hampshire? Seems to me the most common is being unprepared. I think if they just simply visited hikesafe.com and got a list of the 10 essential items and had those in their packs, they probably would have no need to ever call us at all.