Episode 164 - Welcome Doug Teschner, Discussion of 1983 Mt. Washington Rescue, Loon Echo Land Trust

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Here is the latest Higher Summits forecast brought to you by our friends at the Mt. Washington Observatory.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Weather above treeline in the White Mountains is often wildly different than at our trailheads.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Before you hike, check the Higher Summits forecast at MtWashington.org.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Weather observers working at the non-profit Mt. Washington Observatory

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Write this elevation-based forecast every morning and afternoon.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Search and Rescue teams, avalanche experts, and backcountry guides all rely on the Higher Summits forecast

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_04]: to anticipate weather conditions above treeline. You should too.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Go to MtWashington.org or text FORECAST to 603-356-2137

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And here's your forecast for Friday, August 16th and Saturday, August 17th.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Friday in the clear under partly cloudy skies with a slight chance of afternoon showers hazy.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_04]: With a low to the mid-50s winds northwest at 10-25 mph.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Friday night in and out of the clouds under mostly clear skies, trending towards mostly in the clouds

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_04]: with a slight chance of showers late overnight again hazy with a low to the mid-50s.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Winds will be west shifting south at 5-20 mph early and then 10-25 mph late.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And then finally Saturday, mostly in the clouds with a chance of morning showers.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Then mostly in the clear under cloudy skies late.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Again, hazy.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_04]: High in the mid-50s with winds south at 25-40 mph.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_12]: Casting from the Woodpecker's studio in the great state of New Hampshire,

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_12]: welcome to the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_12]: where we discuss all things related to hiking and search and rescue in the White Mountains of New Hampshire.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_12]: Here are your hosts, Mike and Stomp.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, Stomp, we are live for episode 164.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Are you ready?

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm ready, man.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_04]: 164.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's do it.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_05]: You're in like a sweatshirt, so I'm assuming it's not that hot up there.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it almost feels like we're getting an early fall.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_04]: It's raining pretty good at the moment.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_04]: As you know, the forecast for the weekend is pretty crappy.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Saturday's looking okay, but at the moment we're getting some nice rain, some thunderstorms.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to the fall.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_05]: No hiking for me this weekend, so...

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_04]: No?

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_05]: What's going on?

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Busy?

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we're just doing some family stuff, so I am going to the Wusoks in Wista.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, excellent.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm hoping I'm getting out Saturday for a long hike.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe a revisit to Al Gauguin or something like that.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's a nice one.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_05]: That's always fun.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_05]: You're always in that little hood of Waterville, so...

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, totally.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_05]: It's very good.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Is Aurora joining us tonight, or is she in for programming?

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_04]: She's getting defragmented at the moment, so she's...

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_04]: She's getting defragmented.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, she's busy.

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I did get, like I was looking through...

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I got a complaint about Aurora, and I was like, you know what?

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm with you.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I agree.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I don't know.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_05]: One person said they didn't like Aurora, so I think we need to defrag her and...

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Jeez, that's tough.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe reboot her personality a little bit and then bring her back new and improved, so we'll

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_05]: work with her.

[00:04:54] Yeah.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, but it's still the first.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_04]: The first hikebot ever.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, come on.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_05]: It's cool.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_05]: If people didn't listen to the last episode, we had a guest co-host named Aurora who is

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_05]: a hiking chatbot that is very polarizing, but we'll work on that.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_05]: But anyway, welcome to episode 164 of the Sounds Like a Search and Rescue podcast.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_05]: This week, we have a follow-up from episode 154 where we covered a March 1983 fatality on

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Mount Washington where 23-year-old Ken Hokanson lost his life and his hiking partner Ali Keshkuli

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_05]: was rescued.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_05]: At the time that we covered this story, we used the details provided in the summer 1984

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Appalachia Journal.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_05]: The writer of that article was actually the person that was first on the scene that helped

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_05]: rescue Ali and had triaged Ken when he came on the scene.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_05]: So his name is Doug Teschner.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_05]: So Doug actually was told about our segment from a listener.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_05]: They randomly ran into each other at the Highland Center and then I made contact with him and

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_05]: he was kind enough to do a follow-up interview with us.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_05]: So we've got a segment that we'll be going to shortly.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_05]: So definitely stick around for this segment because Doug has a lot of interesting background

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_05]: on that particular event.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And then we get into a lot of details about what the White Mountains were like back in

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_05]: those days.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And Doug has a lot of background and experience.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_05]: He's written a ton of articles for Appalachia Journal.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_05]: So very interesting discussion.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm excited to share that.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And then later in the show, our friends Scott and Addie sit down to talk about the Loon Echo

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Land Trust, which is sort of in my neck of the woods where I like to hang out in western

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Maine, the lakes region.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_05]: So Loon Echo Land Trust is a nonprofit organization that conserves, protects and maintains many of

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_05]: the trails and land in the lakes region of Maine.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_05]: So Scott and Addie are overseeing a trail race series that we talked about previously to help support

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_05]: the trust.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So we'll talk to them about those races.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_05]: We'll learn a little bit about Loon Echo hiking areas and talk some trail running in the whites.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_05]: All this plus we've got discussion about Falling Waters reroute, powered hiking pants.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And then we've got recent hikes in Quincy Boggs.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And then I was up on Middle Mountain in Conway.

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm Mike.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm Stomp.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's get started, y'all.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's get started, Stomp.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And let's hand it over to the hiking buddies for a safety tip.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's do it.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Titter-titter.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_08]: This has been Pease from Hiking Buddies.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_08]: We are a 501c3 nonprofit committed to reducing avoidable tragedies through education, impactful

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_08]: projects and fostering a community of support.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_08]: You can find out more at hikingbuddies.org.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_08]: We wanted to say thank you to those who have supported our mission.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_08]: And most importantly, say thanks to those who speak up, who ask questions and who are willing

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_08]: to provide guidance and assistance on the trails when needed.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_08]: You embody what it means to be a hiking buddy.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_08]: And now, for all my newer hikers out there, here's this episode's Hiking Buddies Quick Tip.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_10]: Never leave any buddy behind alone.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_10]: Keep people in buddy groups.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_10]: Wherever possible, check on your hiking buddies.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_10]: Wait at trail junctions, roads, summits and huts.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_10]: Choose a buddy to be the sweet buddy, the last buddy in the group.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_10]: And want to be the turn back buddy in the event that one of your buddies needs to bail.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Brought to you by Hiking Buddies.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_10]: This is my buddy.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_10]: This is so funny.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Christina with White Mountain Endurance Coaching.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to let you know that not only do I coach endurance athletes, I also coach hikers and mountaineers.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I have plenty of experience in the White Mountains and would love to teach you how to start out whether you're a beginner, if you're more advanced, give you some more skills to transition from hiking to trail running, and most of all, teach you how to move safely in the mountains.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So whatever your goals are, whatever your experience is, reach out coaching.christinapulsick.com.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to help you.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And we are back.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you, hiking buddies.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_05]: And thank you, Christina from White Mountain Endurance Coaching.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you very much, everybody.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Good stuff, huh?

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Good stuff.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_05]: So where do you want to start tonight?

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_05]: We've got a list of things, but we've got to go quick because we've got to get to the meat of the show.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we've got a little bit of hiking drama going on.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody with the IG handle of DeleteTheCog, I guess that's somewhat of a provocative name, posted a video of some old trestles and ties up probably at the, what, Burt Ravine level, would you say, Mike?

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Around 4,000 feet, 4,900 feet?

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it looks quite steep.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_05]: It looks like an area that you don't want to be poking around in.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and the person was accusing the COG apparently of just making a mess up there with new, you know, just new trash and new, you know, throwing ties everywhere onto the Alpine Garden.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And not sure if that was the case, but that was the allegation.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And then folks from the COG responded and put some context to it.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And apparently some of that damaged structure up there was due to the Great Hurricane of 1938.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, there was discussion in the past about cleaning it up, but apparently it just wasn't feasible.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_04]: It would have caused more destruction to the area, bringing up large equipment, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_04]: But we have provided the link so you can make your own decision.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Check it out.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I think that there's rules about, I had to look it up, but I feel like there's rules in wilderness sections about artifacts that you're not supposed to touch after a certain amount of time.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_05]: So it could be that they fall under that.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it looks, it doesn't look great, but it's also like, I feel like my understanding is that they've cleaned up a lot of those areas.

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Because this particular area here looks like it's down into the ravine and doesn't really look like it's safe to navigate.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_05]: And there's a fair amount of vegetation in between.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah, it's probably better to leave it, but I don't know.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Smarter people than I will figure that out.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_05]: But, yeah, again, people like to bash the COG.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_05]: They like to bash the AMC.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_05]: At the end of the day, the more you dig into the history of the White Mountains, the more, and the auto road and everything like that.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_05]: We've talked about this endlessly.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, right.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, there's historical context to why these structures exist on the mountains.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_05]: There's benefits to them, particularly when it comes to accessibility that people wouldn't otherwise be able to access the mountains.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And then there's, you know, there's the fact that these groups, and we talk about this time and time again,

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_05]: the COG steps up when they need search and rescue assistance.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_05]: The AMC steps up when you need search and rescue assistance.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_05]: The auto road makes themselves available for search and rescue.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_05]: The people that work up on the summit will come down and help with rescue.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_05]: So, it's like, take the good with the bad and make your own judgment.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I'm a little bit biased, I think, at this point.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, we'll put the link in the show notes.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_05]: People can check it out.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Leave it at that.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Slasher plays it neutral.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, yes.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_04]: We wash our hands of the drama.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_04]: We're like Switzerland.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, we just present the drama.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_04]: That's all.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like you used to be all about the drama stomp, but not anymore.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Does that mean we're getting old?

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, maybe we have Legionnaire's disease.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, Legionnaire's disease.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_05]: So, we've done a story on Legionnaire's disease before.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_05]: So, this came out in USA Today.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_05]: So, it's getting national news.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_05]: So, five New Hampshire residents developed Legionnaire's disease after an outbreak of the bacterial.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_05]: So, this is a bacterial, not a virus infection caused by exposure to contaminated water.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_05]: So, Stomp, do you know, like if you use like a Sawyer filter, does it protect you from Legionnaire's disease because it's bacteria?

[00:13:40] I don't know.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not an expert on Sawyer.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't really use them.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, if anybody, any listeners know, I feel like there's one, it's like it doesn't protect from bacteria or it doesn't protect from virus, one of those.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_05]: So, if a listener knows, just hit us up and we'll do an update on this.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_05]: But, essentially, these five people developed the illness in June and July after being exposed to contaminated water droplets from a cooling tower behind the Riverwalk Resort in downtown Lincoln, New Hampshire.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_05]: So, they just want to put the warning out that anybody that had been near this cooling tower should monitor this.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I think this has part of your answer because it's respiratory, so it leads to pneumonia.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_04]: So, a filter's not going to stop it, but if you're breathing it in, then yeah.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And what cracks me up about this story is they put like a gigantic circumference caution zone around the city and it was massive.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, it covered almost the entire downtown of the town.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_04]: It's pretty wild.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what's going on with it at the moment, but it was part of that new Riverwalk, excuse me, resort that they built and the tower was used to provide water to that whole building.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_04]: So, it's probably cleaned up by now, but interesting story.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_05]: So, be careful.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I learned about that stuff way back in PT school.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, to hear about it now is like, damn.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So, the friendly, the over-friendly bears in Lincoln Woods continue to make the news here.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_05]: So, this latest is our friend John Huck, who listens to the show, sent over a CBS article that says that there's bears in that Lincoln Woods area.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_05]: They're no longer afraid of humans.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And they've been trailing campers as they search for food in the White Mountains.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_05]: So, the Forest Service put out a statement that it's received reports nearly every day about food-conditioned bears that are interacting with hikers, campers, and their dogs around Lincoln.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_05]: So, they've become habituated to humans and are following campers and begging for food.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_05]: So, my guess is probably, and I got a feeling like anybody that's listening to this show knows the deal.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_05]: You don't feed them.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_05]: But, my guess is that, like, you know, car campers and people that are just up here once a year or something like that are probably, maybe inadvertently, feeding some of these fellas and causing some issues.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_05]: So, they've been destroying tents, backpacks as they look for easy meals.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And the thing about, if you're in Lincoln Woods, like, I know it's easy to sort of like, okay, let's drop our backpack and step off and do whatever you're going to do if nature calls or whatever reason.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_05]: But, I think you just be careful if you leave your backpack sitting around.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_05]: There's bears in the woods.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I hadn't thought of that.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_04]: But, there's a lot of buzz about this bear out there at the moment.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Just the other day, we had the team picnic and stuff.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody was talking about it.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_04]: But, just to qualify it, it's not just campers but hikers.

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, absolutely right.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Great point about the backpacks.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, Lincoln Woods, Boncliffe, Franconia Brook, Lincoln Brook, Black Pond, Liberty Springs, 13 Falls, Tent Site.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_05]: All that area there is coming up and down Osseo.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, there's plenty of situations where you might drop a pack or whatever.

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_05]: You just got to be careful.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, Stomp.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_05]: So, next, oh, show note here.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_05]: We got a reminder.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Stop me if you heard this before, Stomp, but I'm traveling.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Where are you going?

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I got to go drop my kids off at school.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Ah, there you go.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, tis the season.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_05]: We're empty nesting now.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_05]: So, my baby is going off to college.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_05]: But, that means that there's no show next week.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_05]: So, we are going to skip this week and then we'll be back.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, we're going to skip next week and then we'll be back with the show on August 30th.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Sounds good.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Back to school, kids.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Back to college.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I saw all the back to school aisles at the local stores recently.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, eeh.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Still cringes me out when I see it.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I got to do that road trip down to North Carolina.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, it's like a 12-hour ride to get down there and then you got to move them into their dorm room and put all their furniture together.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_05]: It's fun times.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Good stuff.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_05]: So, next up here, Stomp, there's been an update that Falling Waters Trail, which is well known on this show because we talk about it quite frequently because it's a hotspot for rescues.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_05]: There is a plan to relocate about 5,100 feet of the Falling Waters Trail to a more sustainable grade and location along with construction of a new 1,900-foot spur trail to Cloudland Falls.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I'm reading this and this, to me, looks like they're planning on bypassing Cloudland Falls, which is the iconic, you know, when you think of falling waters, essentially that's the iconic waterfall.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_05]: So, it sounds like they're going to reroute away from that area, probably avoiding that sort of steep climb to the left of Cloudland Falls and go to a better area.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_05]: But then they're going to add a loop trail that brings you out to Cloudland Falls so that you can still enjoy it.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Is that what I'm reading here?

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_04]: The implementation date looks like it's sometime in April of 2025 and it's just in the early reconnaissance phases now.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_04]: But that's great news.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's a great idea.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_04]: That trail is a mess for that mile stretch and dangerous.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_04]: So, having spurs out to those locations sounds like a really great alternative.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Even like the last five years or so, like that section where you approach Cloudland Falls has just gotten more and more worn down.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's just too steep and too slippery.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm assuming that they have a fair amount of – you can manage it, but a fair amount of people probably, that's where they slip and fall and injure themselves.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_05]: So, more on that one.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_05]: And then, Stomp, we've got a patch update.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_05]: So, we sent out our shipment of patches.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Are we good here?

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I think we're good.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Except for I stiffed Nick.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I sent out his package and I had missed his patch inside the package.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Oops.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, this is our friend Nick Sidler?

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_04]: That's right.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_04]: He's awesome.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_04]: But, sorry, Nick.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry about that, bud.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure I'll be hiking with him at some point soon, so I can give him one, two if we need to.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_05]: But, very good.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Are we going to open up orders or do we run out yet?

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_04]: No.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_04]: We've got about 100 left, but I figured I would just give it a rest instead of having them trickle in.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And having people wait for, you know, in inordinate time waiting for their patch.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll just do another bulk order again.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_04]: It's just easier.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that we're going to start like basically doing merch.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Like once every couple of months, we'll do a new merch thing.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And then I'm going to do hats next.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Stop.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to do a bulk order of hats and we'll sell those.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_04]: That sounds great.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I think the bonfire does hats.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_04]: We should look into that, but it sounds great.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_05]: So, this next update I have here is back in September of 2021, there was a fatality on

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Bald Face Mountain.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_05]: This is on South Bald Face.

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_05]: This was a group trip from Lakes Region High School in Maine.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And there was a group of, I don't know, 20 to 30 kids and a couple of chaperones.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And they were hiking the South Bald Face Mountain.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And a high school student, a 17-year-old kid, I think, had complained to the chaperones and

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_05]: indicated that they weren't feeling well.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_05]: They didn't want to continue hiking.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_05]: According to the family, he was pressured into continuing the hike.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_05]: The chaperones didn't ensure that he had water.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And according to the family, they didn't feel like the chaperones took his safety seriously.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_05]: He didn't end up dying later in the hike.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And there was a lawsuit that was filed.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_05]: The lawsuit claimed that the young man had died of heat stroke, that students and staff

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_05]: weren't properly trained or equipped for the overnight trip, and that the students' access

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_05]: to water was restricted.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_05]: But according to this news story here, the family had sued the school district.

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think two of the chaperones and the judge in the case cited a law that gives wide protections

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_05]: to schools and their employees and dismissed the lawsuit.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_05]: So no word on whether or not they're going to appeal.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_05]: But sad story all around.

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I feel bad for everybody in this story.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think the chaperones that were involved here having to live with this for the rest of

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_05]: their lives is a pretty serious punishment.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_05]: But I understand the family looking for justice to ensure that something like this doesn't

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_05]: ever happen again.

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_05]: But there's just no way.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_05]: No one's ever going to be a winner in this one.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_04]: That's right.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Hopefully it wouldn't happen again.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, at the very least, that's the whole idea with the justice system.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, Stomp.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And then next up here, we got a quick article sent to us from the Daily Mail.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_05]: So the Daily Mail is a mixed bag.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Some people call it a crappy rag.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And a lot of times I find that the Daily Mail actually is pretty good.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_05]: And they do dig in and get the real story.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm more positive on the Daily Mail than maybe some other people are.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_05]: But anyway, this one here is an article that talks about Gen Z hikers are blamed for record

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_05]: number of avoidable call outs by mountain rescue teams as Instagram obsessed hikers rushed

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_05]: to dangerous beauty spots for selfies.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Makes sense.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_05]: So this is a story out of, where is this located?

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_05]: They call this Lakes District Search and Mountain Rescue Association has received 7% more 999 calls.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_05]: So I think that's in the UK with many coming from 18 to 30 year olds.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And volunteers from the Search and Rescue are blaming social media because they're saying

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_05]: that these pretty spots are going viral and inexperienced hikers are trying to tackle

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_05]: these peaks and they don't have the skills to climb.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think you're right about it being England.

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I was curious if it matched up with some of your data that you've plucked over the years.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I looked up.

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Hard to say?

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_05]: No, I can say.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_05]: It's not hard, Stomp.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that it's more correct than incorrect at this point.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_05]: So when I pull this data and I'm pulling it up as I'm talking to you, Mr. Stomp, and I have a

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_05]: couple of graphs that I can share in the notes.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And what I do is I assess each case and I basically make a call to say whether or not

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_05]: the person was negligent or not negligent.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think in cases where they don't have headlamps and they get caught outside,

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_05]: like that's an automatic negligent.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And then I have this graph that's broken down by age.

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And I would say for the negligent, the biggest category by far in the last five years, there's

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_05]: been 70 cases of 20 to 29-year-olds where I have indicated that they had negligent calls

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_05]: on them.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And then if you look at every other category from 30 to 39, 40 to 49, so on, the 20 to 29-year-olds

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_05]: have more negligent calls than the rest of the age categories combined.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's New England?

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Or is that?

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_05]: That's just New Hampshire.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_05]: So it matches up.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_05]: So it matches up.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_05]: The thing I will say is that I don't think that there's malice in a lot of these.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's more lack of education, not having a headlamp or you get some of those cases

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_05]: like the two young men that got caught up by the watcher in that area there that are just

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_05]: completely reckless.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, I think young people just like they...

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_05]: The other thing I've noticed about young people is that many of the group scenarios where you've

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_05]: got like seven people hiking and they went completely off trail and got lost.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_05]: There was one group that got lost near the Rainbow Trail near Wildcat and there was another

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_05]: group that went off trail in Shakora in really bad weather.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_05]: What I found is that the deadly combination is large groups of young people hiking together

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_05]: in bad conditions.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_05]: There's been probably like five or six incidents of groups of young people over the last five

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_05]: years that have gotten in trouble like that.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this article may be slightly weighted pro this group being the problem because it's

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_04]: a popular place for younger adolescents and in particular during Easter break they climb

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_04]: this mountain and they've had like in 2024 they've had 418 emergency calls, 22,000 hours

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_04]: of rescue time.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And if you look at the pictures, it's like a monadnock.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_04]: There's like hundreds of kids on top of this peak.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_04]: So that might impact the data there but interesting.

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Who knows.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, Stomp.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Why don't we skip the big trees because we can spend a little bit more time on that next

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_05]: episode.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, just mention it.

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_04]: That's all I wanted to do is mention that it's out there.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_04]: New HampshireBigTrees.org is a very cool site.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_04]: It lists all the locations of the largest trees in New Hampshire.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_04]: So check it out.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a great, great site.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I want to go back to this Stomp and see if we can get somebody from this site

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_05]: on here to talk about it later.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_05]: But I was looking through, I'll put this in the show notes.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a map that you can link to that has a bunch of big trees.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_05]: There's one.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_05]: There's an oak tree in Portsmouth that was planted in 1776.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_05]: That's like 90 feet tall that I want to go check out.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_04]: That's amazing.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, super cool information.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_12]: We all know that hiking a mountain can be hard at times.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_12]: So here's a corny dad joke to help you get over it.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_12]: Ba-dum-bum.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, Stomp, do you like dad jokes?

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I love them.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_05]: You do?

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Did you hear the story of the magic sandwich?

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_05]: No, I haven't.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, never mind.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just a bunch of baloney.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Classic.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, boy.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_12]: Ready for Slashers?

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Your review?

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_05]: So next up here, Stomp, we've got a gear review.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_05]: So this got sent to me by like five people.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And it looks pretty cool.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's Arcteric, which is...

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the price, though.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_05]: They're an apparel.

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, even just without this particular gear,

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_05]: like Arcteric is really expensive.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And I probably mispronounced this too,

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_05]: so people are going to make fun of me.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_05]: But they have a new pair of pants that has an exoskeleton.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And we've talked about this before.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_05]: These are basically assisted hiking exoskeletons.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's like an electronic engine with...

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Or an electric engine with the ability to assist with leg movements.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And Arcteric has...

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_05]: They're selling these.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_05]: They're called powered pants,

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_05]: which could make hikers feel 30 pounds lighter.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And they're typical hiking pants.

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_05]: But then on the outside,

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_05]: they have like these...

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_05]: It looks like carbon fiber

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_05]: with an engine around the knee that pivots.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_05]: So pretty cool.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, they are powered.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_04]: So they're like an e-bike or...

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's assisted motion.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Correct.

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_04]: So we're heading towards the Avatar robots.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_04]: We are.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Gradually.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Very cool.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Very cool.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Ironman.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Sounds good to me.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And then next up,

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I wanted to give a shout out to Will Robinson.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you know this guy?

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I've seen this guy's name around before.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't ring a bell.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_05]: So Will Robinson,

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_05]: he had posted on the 4,000 footer group

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_05]: that he established a new fastest known time

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_05]: for the Northeast 115.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And he did this in 19 days, 15 hours, 43 minutes, and 10 seconds.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_05]: So what he did is he did the Northeast 115.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_05]: So all the 4,000 footers in the Northeast.

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And he was able to do them in just under 20 days.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's a lot of hiking and a lot of driving.

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And he's got a lot of details on this post that I will share

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_05]: where he's got the breakdown of all of his days,

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_05]: what his strategy was.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_05]: It's really helpful.

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I appreciate it.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_05]: He gives basically the whole strategy for how to do this.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_05]: So I thought it was pretty cool.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_05]: And essentially, he's doing this self-supported

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_05]: and driving to the trailhead.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_05]: So he would chunk it up.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And it looks like he started in Maine for his first.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_05]: So he did Baxter and Hamlin.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And then he made his way south to North Brother, Avery, Bigelow.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_05]: So you can sort of see his strategy, which is pretty helpful.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_05]: So I'll include this in the show notes.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_05]: And congratulations, Will.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_05]: That's awesome.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, congrats.

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_04]: What's the fastest known time for the Deretissima?

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_04]: How long does that typically take?

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like that's floating somewhere around like four and a half,

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_05]: five days at this point.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_05]: But I got to take a look.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Is it? Yeah.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll have to take a look.

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not sure.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, Stomp.

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_05]: That was the time of the show where we do a sponsor.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And this is the final plug for 48 Peaks for the season.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_04]: It was a great run for them this year.

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_04]: So use your passion for hiking to help end Alzheimer's.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_04]: In one collective effort, 400 plus hikers will climb New Hampshire's 4,000 footers

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_04]: or create their own hiking challenge to advance the care, support, and research efforts of the Alzheimer's Association.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Hike anytime this summer and help turn the White Mountains purple to end Alzheimer's.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_04]: No fundraising minimum is required, but you can unlock fun prizes as you fundraise.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_04]: So visit alt.org right slash 48 Peaks to learn more.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, Stomp.

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And while you were doing that, I was looking up in the Google machine here the fastest known time for the Deritissima.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm showing...

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Arlette did that too, right?

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I think she should be in there somewhere.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I think she's in there somewhere, but it looks like the standard Deritissima is three days, five hours, and three minutes.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So...

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_05]: That's the standard route, which I can't remember what that looks like.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_05]: And then there's a self-powered, which I think is carrying everything on your own, and that is Will Peterson in five days.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And then Andrew Drummond, our friend Andrew, he's got the supported Deritissima.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_05]: So...

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Good times.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_04]: So that puts some context to that 115 finish.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_04]: How impressive that is.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you couldn't do that without driving, but yeah, it's pretty impressive.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It's wild.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Stomp.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Now, you want to tell people how they can get their swag, their slasher swag?

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, let's do it.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we can talk about the hoodies because it is the season I'm wearing my sweatshirt tonight, but you can get those really cool slasher hoodies up on the Bonfire Shop,

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_04]: and you just got to go to the Instagram link tree to find the link to it.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Check them out.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And we also take donations for the podcast, and if you're interested, you can go to the Buy Me a Coffee for Slasher.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And we have a donation this week from Mike Idavia, and he spelt, he hyphenated his name so I could get it right for a change.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_04]: So we donated five, and thanks for the spell correction, Mike.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Mike, and if I had to say your name correctly a hundred times, I would get it wrong 101 times.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_05]: But thank you for the coffee.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And we have a sponsor here of CS Coffee.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_04]: So the podcast is also sponsored by CS Coffee, makers of eco-friendly instant coffee.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_04]: It's perfect for anyone who loves the outdoors as much as we do.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Great for backpacking, day hiking, camping, and even at home.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_04]: So learn more about CS Coffee and get in touch with them at csinstant.coffee,

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_04]: or email them at info at csinstant.coffee.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Very good, Stomp.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Very good.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Now is the part of the show where we talk about what beer we are drinking, if we are drinking a beer?

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm on my Stormalong Cider Kick.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I am so addicted to these legendary dries.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_04]: They're like two grams of carbs and 6.5%.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they're so delicious.

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And you don't get that heavy feeling after like a big double IPA or something like that.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And I've looked into a whole bunch of other things that they make, too.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_04]: They make all kinds of great stuff.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Blueberries and you name it.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a company out of Mass.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Lemonster, to be exact, I believe.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Lemonster Mass.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Good for you, Mass.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Love it.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Very good, yeah.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I have not...

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't bring a beer tonight, Stomp.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I drank a little bit too much over the weekend.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I was out on the boat.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know, sometimes like just a little inside baseball for people that listen to this show.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_05]: So, this is like one of those episodes where we're like, we'll splice in segments.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So, we actually aren't going to be recording that long, like maybe a little under an hour.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_05]: But the show will end up being like two hours.

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_05]: But whenever we do these show, Stomp, I always sort of like...

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't settle in.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_05]: So, sometimes I'll forget to bring a beer.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I'm like, all right, this is going to be a quick one.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I forgot.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I apologize.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_05]: But I will get back on the drinking next week.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Now, Stomp, we're talking about recent hikes.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I can go first?

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_05]: So, this weekend, we had a boat weekend.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_05]: So, once a year, we rent a pontoon boat and we go out onto Brandy Pond in Naples.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_05]: So, Moose Landing Marina is the shout out I want to give because it's a great place, great place to rent a boat.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And we get the whole family together.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_05]: We had some family friends with us.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_05]: So, it was a fun day to get out.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_05]: So, we rented the boat.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_05]: We went out to Brandy Pond and then we went through the Songo River Locks, which rise you up from Brandy Pond and you can get into Sebago, poke around Sebago a little bit.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And then we came back through the locks again and went over to Long Lake.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_05]: So, it's a nice day to be out there.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_05]: But I didn't get to hike that much.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_05]: But the day before, I went and I did a run in North Conway.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I parked at Redstone right behind the Walmart.

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And then I did the real trail.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I did about two miles on the real trail.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_05]: And then I went up and hiked up into the green hills in Middle Mountain.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_05]: So, it's a pretty good hike.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_05]: It's about eight miles total.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_05]: So, about two miles on the walking path, two miles on the trail, and then another two miles back on the trail, two miles on the walking path.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_05]: So, it was a good time.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_05]: The Middle Mountain has got great views, not a lot of effort.

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_05]: So, highly recommend.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, nice videos.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, good for you, man.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_04]: It's great.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And then what about yourself?

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Not that much, really.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I just had the DJ thing with the cog and all that.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And then, you know, Mr. Stump and I got out to Quincy Bog again.

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_04]: We try to grab that if we're late after work.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And we just have an hour to kill before the sun goes down.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So, that was really nice.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Quincy Bog in Plymouth, if anybody's interested.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Super chewy air.

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, as it is today as well.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_04]: It's been like, it must be the wildfires somewhere, you know, burning away or something.

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's been smoky up here.

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, same here.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_05]: The sunrises have been pretty, but yeah, it's definitely hazy.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I've snuck in a couple Welch Dickies.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And just a side note about, you know the poo bags that people bring for their dogs to pick up the poo?

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Top-notch job, everybody.

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_04]: You're doing great putting the poo in those bags.

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_04]: But there's a second step to that, if you haven't noticed.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_04]: It's called taking the poo bags out with you when you leave, damn it.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I couldn't believe it.

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I did WD Loop and there was like half a dozen bags of shit just laying on the trail.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, what are you people doing?

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, take them out with you.

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know, they'll tell you, oh, I just leave it there.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And when I come back, I pick it up.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_05]: But they don't.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right.

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I doubt it.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, just a minor note.

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, listen, I've had situations on trail.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I had a situation recently.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I pack everything out.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I put it in a trash bag and it's gone.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_05]: So, anyway, that's my advice.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_05]: That's my philosophy.

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, final note here.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_04]: We did sneak in a float with my daughter.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_04]: She's back.

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_04]: She actually got a place in Keene.

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And we were working for Montessori there, which is super cool.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Awesome.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_04]: So, she came up when we floated the Pemi.

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And I actually got my true punishment float from our story when I mistook Sully for Shrek or vice versa.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_04]: So, here it is.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Ready?

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Ooh, looks good.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Octopus.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Is it goofy as hell or what?

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_05]: It looks good.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_05]: So, what do you say?

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like a float, but it has eight octopus arms sticking out of it.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's like a Kraken or something.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_05]: The guy looks...

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_05]: The guy looks...

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_05]: He's a handsome, jacked up guy.

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_05]: It looks like Casey a little bit.

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Our friend Casey.

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a pretty tacky looking float, I gotta say.

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, before I forget, I actually have like a tip for listeners if you want to do something cool.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_05]: In Naples, Maine on the causeway, this is not far from North Conway in that area, if you want a fun night out, there's a boat called the Songo River Queen, which is a paddle boat.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And we've been going over the causeway like every weekend.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_05]: We go out there for drinks or pizza or whatever, and we watch the people.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And every Saturday night, Friday night, the Songo River Queen goes out, and they have different theme nights.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_05]: So, it's like a lot of ladies that are dressed up like in 1980s clothes, a lot of neon clothes.

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_05]: They have an 80s theme night.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_05]: They had a 70s theme night.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_05]: They had a country night.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_05]: So, if you're looking for something fun to do when you're up in like the lakes region of Maine, the Songo River Queen, I'll put in a link to the show notes to check it out.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_05]: But it looks like a fun night.

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_05]: They have a DJ.

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_05]: They blast music.

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And everybody's partying and drinking.

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_04]: How big of a boat?

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, they could probably fit 300, 400 people on this thing.

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_04]: So, it's like a Mount Washington?

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_04]: It's exactly like that.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the exact same thing.

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a Mount Washington paddle boat.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Got it.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Got it.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_04]: That's awesome.

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_04]: We've been trying to get out to do that.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_04]: It looks like so much fun.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, let's go into the segment that I did with Douglas Teschner.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_05]: So, you remember talking about the rescue in episode 154 from 1983.

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_05]: We got a lot of details.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So, if you didn't listen to episode 154, it may be worth it for you to go back and check out that segment.

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think that Doug covers a lot of the details pretty good.

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_05]: So, Doug's a great guy.

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Fascinating story.

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_05]: So, let's move into that segment and then we'll come out.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Stop.

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's do it.

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Do-do-do-do-do.

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Do-do-do-do.

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_12]: It's time for Slasher's Guest of the Week.

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_12]: Very cool.

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_12]: Very cool.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_05]: So, we are here with Dr. Douglas Teschner.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Did I pronounce your last name correctly?

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't emphasize the doctor usually, but it is true.

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I do have a doctor of education.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, you know, you made it.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_02]: The dog is perfectly good.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't need the dog.

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_05]: No problem.

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_05]: So, Doug, thanks for joining us.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_05]: So, for the listeners, just as a reminder, I had done a segment on a fatality and then

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_05]: also a rescue on Mount Washington that went back to March 24th, 1983, which is my birthday.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm 72, but March 24th is my birthday.

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And Doug was involved, intimately involved in that search.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And he had also, the reason I was able to actually research it and get all the information

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_05]: is Doug was the person that had organized the article that was in the summer 1984 edition

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_05]: of Appalachia.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, we'll go into the story in more detail, but essentially there was a fatality,

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_05]: a slip and a fall from Mount Washington down into the Alpine Garden area.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And Doug had come upon the body of a young man that had passed away.

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And then his hiking partner later on and had been involved in the rescue operation to save

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_05]: this young man who had survived and then also to work to get the body of Ken Hokanson off

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_05]: of the mountain.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I definitely want to talk to you about that, Doug, and we can talk a little bit about

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_05]: how we got connected.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_05]: But I guess maybe just to start off with, if you could just introduce yourself and give

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_05]: a little bit of a brief background of your life and a little bit about your sort of hiking

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_05]: and climbing background.

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, delighted to be here.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was just delighted that you found this story.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And I should also mention, it's in one of the AMC books, No Limits But the Sky.

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It's sort of an orange and black cover.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It was reprinted.

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you don't have to find it.

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_02]: If you want the story, you don't have to go back to the 1984 Appalachian.

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You can find it a little more.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_02]: A little more modern setting.

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to remember how long ago that book was published.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But, yeah, I grew up in Westboro, Massachusetts.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And when I was young, my parents sent me to summer camp.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_02]: My parents weren't hikers.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_02]: No, they didn't take me hiking.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_02]: But in summer camp, I got the bug.

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was a YMCA camp based out of Worcester, Mass.

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And I went to the White Mountains.

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And ironically, I was very nervous about moving up to these older kids who did these big mountain adventures.

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd been going to that camp since I was 10.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And at 13, I was moving up with the kids that did these trips.

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was nervous about it.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, I told my parents I wanted to stay back with the younger kids.

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And when we got out to camp, my father sort of disappeared.

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And he came back and he found me.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And he said, Doug, you need to go with those older kids.

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And ironically, my father was killed in a car accident the next year.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But I did write in Appalachia.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I've been involved with AMC and the Appalachia Journal for many, many years.

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wrote a story called The Father's Last Gift about my father and how he convinced me to go.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You never know what events in your life are going to shape your life.

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And through that summer camp experience, it was so influential in my life.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And so when I started getting into hiking, I didn't have any family members.

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And I found about the one of my counselors told me about the Worcester app at the AMC and Worcester chapter.

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's how I started going on hikes with them.

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_02]: We helped build them.

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I helped with the first trail up Hancock.

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_02]: We built Hancock.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_02]: You usually have to take a slide.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is going back to the 60s now.

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm getting kind of old.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm 74 years old.

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm still moving.

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I was up on Mount Washington yesterday, I'm proud to say.

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you said that.

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I sort of have two roles right now in AMC.

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_02]: One is I'm on the journal committee, the Appalachia Journal.

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And in the newest edition, I just wrote, I found out my wife and I had recently moved.

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And I found out my neighbor was a wildlife biologist, a renowned wildlife biologist named George Schaller.

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And I interviewed him.

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's in the current issue of the Appalachia Journal.

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But I also do hut naturalists.

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So I go up and give nature talks at the huts, which I enjoy doing because through my connections with Worcester Chapter and I was getting into hiking,

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and I did work in the huts three summers starting in 1968.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I tell a joke at the huts, I say, I was working way back the year of the moon landing and Woodstock.

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And I asked people, what year was that?

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And I just did it the other night at Lake of the Clouds hut.

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And people always seem to know that was 1969.

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's how far back I'm trying to show in my age.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_05]: So when you were doing the camp work with AMC, so you were basically able to connect with the camp connection and then working directly for AMC after you got a little bit older?

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the camp was not directed to AMC.

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_02]: The camp just took me to the White Mountains.

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, got it.

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And one of my counselors, and I said, I wanted to keep hiking during the school year.

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And one of my counselors, a guy named Brian Fowler, who's kind of well known for some of the work he did on studying the old man of the mountains.

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you see the diagrams of the fall, how the old man of the mountain fell in 2003, Brian is the one who did that work.

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But Brian had told me about the Worcester AMC, and I made connections, started going on hikes with AMC.

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And then Brian himself worked at Lake of the Clouds hut, and I went up to visit him when I think it was 1967 when I was a camp counselor at that point.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, wow, this looks pretty good.

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And eventually I managed to work in the huts.

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I worked two summers.

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I worked 1968 and 1970 at Zealand Falls, my favorite hut.

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And 1969, like I mentioned, the Mispah, the moon landing, I worked at Mispah Hut.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's how I sort of got into hiking and got the mountain buzz, I guess you would say.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And we're going to get into some of that stuff in the late 60s that you were involved in.

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think just to get the listeners up to speed.

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_05]: So essentially, like I came to know about you based on the article in the Summer 84 Appalachia, the story of the rescue from 1983.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_05]: So we did that segment.

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And then, you know, we have a decent number of listeners.

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, lo and behold, like one of our listeners, gentleman by the name of Christopher Haley.

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And Doug, you'll have to fill me in because I was exchanging messages with Christopher.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_05]: But maybe I missed part of the story.

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_05]: But my understanding is, is that you came into the Highland Center.

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Christopher was in there with a crew of people.

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, somehow the topic of the 1983 rescue came up.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_05]: You start telling the story.

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Christopher's like, wait a minute.

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I literally just heard this story on the Slasher podcast.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And he must have told you, like, you must have been like, wow, I can't believe anybody actually, like, would have remembered that.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's pretty much it.

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was a connection.

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I had, there was a guy named, he was, Chris was with a guy named Joe Massery, who was, had been very active in the Worcester AMC.

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I hadn't seen Joe in years, but I have.

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was at Highland Center helping out with some training for some of these volunteer naturalists and volunteers for the AMC.

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Joe saw me.

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_02]: He recognized me.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And we got talking.

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And I, back in, I think it was 2017, I had gone back to the Worcester AMC for their annual meeting and gave a talk.

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And I really emphasized how much they had shaped my life in being involved with that group when I was in high school.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I said to Joe, well, I'd be happy to come down again.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got another story I could tell you that would be very different, but I think would be interesting.

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And Chris was with him.

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, Chris was part of the training to become a volunteer naturalist.

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I had never met him before.

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And he recognized the story.

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And I have to say, I was flabbergasted.

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_02]: He gave me the account.

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I listened to it.

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought, wow, this guy, Mike, he put a lot of effort into getting to know that story.

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's how we connected.

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_05]: So I, you know, it's a small world.

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess it's fate that we came together, which is great.

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_05]: But I read the story.

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, my father-in-law has a place up in Brownfield, Maine, right on a little pond.

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And I sat in my hammock and read the story a couple of times.

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And I was like, this is the, and we'll get into it sort of like that day in your life.

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_05]: My sense is that that's a very impactful day in your life.

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And we'll get into the details.

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_05]: But I just sort of, I tried to put myself into your shoes to see, you know, okay, how would I react in this situation?

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And I have some questions for you for sure.

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_05]: But before we get into the incident in 1983, prior to that, in the late 60s, you had been involved in another rescue.

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And you talk about this in the story in Appalachia that this incident, so there's an article in, I think, the 70s, somewhere in Appalachia.

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's called Accident and Rescue at Odell Gully.

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_05]: You were involved, and this was in Huntington Ravine as an 18-year-old.

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_05]: You were part of a rescue team.

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_05]: So can you just briefly talk about, like, what happened there?

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, when I first started, my first time in 1967, after Brian Fowler told me about the huts, I had reached out.

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And actually, that year, I ended up, when camp closed, I came up and I helped with what they call the closing crew.

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_02]: The huts used to close on Labor Day.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was a lot different.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_02]: The mountains were a lot different back then than they are today.

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And Labor Day, we shut the huts down at every hut.

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, I guess MISPA stayed open until Columbus Day weekend.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_02]: That was kind of a – that was the only one.

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I helped out on the closing crew, and then I sort of started taking interest next summer.

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I was a freshman at the University of Massachusetts.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I got involved with the outing club there, which is another story.

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_02]: But during my – I was really enamored with working for the AMC.

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And during my college breaks, I would come up and work room and board at Pinkham Notch.

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, just being part of it and being in the mountains, to me, was so spectacular.

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And that one particular incident happened where there was an avalanche up in – now, I was not a climber at that point.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think the worst thing I've ever seen, maybe I did a little basic rock climbing, but very little.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And this accident unfolded.

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_02]: There was an avalanche up there.

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And they had trouble getting these guys down.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And in the middle of the night, they sent two climbers up there.

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And me and another guy were the backup.

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So we weren't doing the climbing, but we hiked in the dark with these big headlamps, with these big battery packs, up to the base of the Odell Gully in Huntington Ravine.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And me and this other guy were sitting there, waiting for them to come down.

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And the two guys went up.

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Ice climbed up, and they got the victim.

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And they were – and the other guy who was with me ended up leaving.

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_02]: He got cold.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was sitting there, and there was a – somebody previously had brought up a, you know, a rescue sled that was sitting next to me.

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And we were up there in the middle of the night, but then, you know, the sun rose.

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And I looked up, and they were bringing – they were rappelling down with this victim.

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And the guy said to me, bring that sled over here.

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I took the sled, and I went over next to where he was coming down.

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I put an ice axe in the snow.

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_02]: My ice axe – I had an ice axe, even though if I didn't know it, maybe I didn't know how to use it, but I had one.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And in my ignorance, I wrapped the rope around this ice axe, but without a knot, thinking, oh, there will be plenty of friction.

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And this sled just took off like a shock down the mountain.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And fortunately, it didn't hit anybody because there were other people coming up at that point.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And fortunately, you know, some of the people coming up got – brought it back up.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it didn't have any bearing on the rescue, as it turned out.

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But it was kind of mortifying that I was – I had done that, and it showed a level of inexperience.

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And so when the incident happened in 83, that was 15 years later.

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And I had done a lot – I had done a lot of things between 1968 and 83.

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I really did a lot of rock climbing and ice climbing.

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And when I graduated from college at the University of Massachusetts, I was in the Peace Corps in Morocco.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And I spent time on my vacations up in the high Atlas Mountains.

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And there was another Peace Corps volunteer who was from Seattle area.

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_02]: He climbed in the Alps.

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_02]: He knew glaciers.

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And we actually took a boat across to Spain and a train.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And we went to Chamonix, France.

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And we climbed Mont Blanc up the glacier, which was, you know, wow.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we did a traverse of Monta Rosa Mountain from Italy into Switzerland that I had cooked up that idea from Miriam Underhill's book.

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_02]: If you've ever seen that, it's Give Me the Hills.

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_02]: We barely had a map.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It was pretty funny, but in retrospect.

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, after that, I started getting pretty serious about mountaineering, climbing.

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And I had done a lot of pretty big mountains by, you know, really the late 70s.

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_02]: We were back in the Alps.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I climbed the Matterhorn.

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And in 76, we went to McKinley.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Me and my friends organized a trip up to Mount McKinley.

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And I had climbed a number of mountains in Africa and Europe and all across North America.

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I had climbed in the Tetons.

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, I think I would say this, that, you know, the experience, as I reflected on what happened in 83, I was looking back and saying, you know, this is the experience that I had gained.

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And so when the events happened in 83, I kind of knew what to do, which I obviously didn't know in 68.

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't good, but so I think that answers your question.

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And can you talk about, like, in the early 80s, can you describe for the listeners, what was the search and rescue infrastructure at that time?

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I know, I think Mountain Rescue Services was getting stood up right around that time with Rick Wilcox.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_05]: But otherwise, what was it like for search and rescue?

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, there was a lot less people in the mountains, you know.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It really started taking off in the 70s.

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But, for instance, that day that I was up, it was a midweek day on the 24th of March.

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I had seen one or two people the whole day up until I came on this accident.

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that would be very different today.

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's so many more people in the mountains today.

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, yes, the Mountain Rescue Service was getting organized.

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But you didn't have, like, the PEMI.

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You didn't have the big volunteer rescue groups like the PEMI.

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure what year they started.

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And then another one up, the Anderskoggin up in Gorham.

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And there were a lot less rescues.

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, because there were just a lot less people in the mountains.

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So, ironically, though, there had been, the year before, in 82, there had been a major incident where a rescuer, Albert Dow, had been killed.

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's funny.

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I was just up at the top of Mount Washington yesterday.

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And I went down to the observatory.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It has a little museum up there in the Summit building.

[00:58:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And they have a plaque in there for Albert Dow.

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was thinking about that because after, I don't know if it was a law change or whatever, but after Albert Dow died trying to rescue, trying to think of the guy's names, they got over in the Great Gulf.

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Hugh Herr.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Hugh Herr.

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Hugh Herr is quite famous today for the work he's done on, you know, he lost his legs.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And then he went on to become, you know, from frostbite.

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_02]: They were out there for multiple days.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And before they were found over in the Great Gulf, they kind of got off.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_02]: They headed up Mount Washington and got turned around and ended up down in the Great Gulf and were down there for days in deep snow until they were found.

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And Hugh Herr lost both of his legs.

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_02]: But then today he's an expert on prosthetics.

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you can find a TED Talk by him.

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But during that search, one of the rescuers, Albert Dow, lost his life in an avalanche on a lion's head.

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And as a result of that, they decided that any rescuers would get free medical attention if needed.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think I was the first one to actually take advantage of that because I had a little bit of a frostbitten thumb when we get into the incident.

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And I stopped by the Littleton Hospital on my way home and they took a look at it and I didn't get a bail.

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you referenced that in the story about the fact that somebody I think had mentioned or given you the assurance that like, hey, you're going to be covered if anything happens.

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's good.

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_05]: And then as far as that – so before we get into the details of the event, the other thing is with Appalachia, during the 70s, were you continuing to write and you had the relationship with the AMC in Appalachia?

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I was writing by that point.

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So when the – you know, after this rescue, I said this would make a good story.

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And today I consider it – I think I have more other – it sounds like I'm bragging.

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think I have more articles in Appalachia, the journal, than any other living person, at least major articles.

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I've been writing for them for many years.

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And I sent you one of the other ones that I had written.

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a lot of them weren't that easily accessible online, although they're putting more of them now.

[01:00:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Dartmouth is now a repository.

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of the old Appalachias now, you know, they're creating online editions.

[01:01:09] [SPEAKER_02]: But I had been involved with that.

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So when this particular – after this particular incident happened, I thought, well, that would make a good story.

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And I got a lot of the people, including the one guy we rescued, to actually write accounts.

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I look back to this day of all the work that – all the articles and things I've written for Appalachia, I consider that the best.

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was the best to me – well, of course, it was a good story.

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think it was the fact that I got so many voices involved.

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And I managed to – I sort of – you know, I was one of the voices, but I also sort of edited together.

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was kind of, you know, logical and it read well.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I knew we were doing this interview today, so I went and read it again last night.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, there's a few details in there that – oh, yeah, I forgot about that.

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, it came out really well.

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm very proud of that article because I think it's a good story.

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you know from a reader's perspective, like, it gets your hooks in, like, literally the first couple of sentences.

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And, like, it's just you're not putting that one down.

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_05]: So you – whatever the mix is to get the reader to stay, you found it in that story.

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you.

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate that.

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_05]: So for the listeners – and I think I'll likely replay the segment ahead of our discussion, so hopefully people will listen to the detailed summary.

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_05]: But essentially you've got two friends, Ken Hokanson and his friend Ali.

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_05]: These were both students at UMaine and, you know, relatively new friends.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_05]: They had had some success hiking up at Baxter.

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_05]: They had done Katahdin in the winter.

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_05]: So they felt sort of confident that, like, you know, the next level here is let's go out and do a late winter hike on Mount Washington.

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_05]: They had grand plans.

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, we all have grand plans, Doug.

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, the mountain doesn't care what our plans are.

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_05]: So they run into, you know, some not great weather.

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_05]: That period there, apparently there was, like, a warming and then a freezing rain.

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And it just created, like, a really icy effect on the summit.

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And you yourself had kind of gone back and forth on which day you were going to go climbing.

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_05]: So you had plans to climb up in Huntington.

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And Ali and Ken were over on Lakes of the Clouds hut and trying to decide.

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_05]: They were on, like, a four or five day overnight.

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_05]: They're trying to decide what their plan is.

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_05]: They ultimately decided to cut their hike short and go back to Pinkham Notch.

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_05]: They decided that they were going to go for the summit of Mount Washington that day.

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_05]: They did get a little bit of view when they got to the summit.

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_05]: At the same time, they're on the summit.

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_05]: You're climbing up from Huntington.

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Now, you had gone back and forth about weather decisions prior to that as well.

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Can you talk a little bit about, like, what's the resources?

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, you can't go online and just find out the weather report.

[01:04:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So what are you doing back in, like, 1983 to figure out what day is your go day?

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a great question.

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I was thinking about the wind.

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I was more concerned about the wind.

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think the key, and it was a key part of this event, is they had rain and then a freeze up.

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And so the summit of Mount Washington was a sheet of ice.

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, now, I was going ice climbing, Huntington Ravine.

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was looking for ice.

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So that didn't necessarily bother me, although even coming up, there was a point where I thought,

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, I should have stopped and put my crampons on earlier than I did.

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was aware of it.

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But I was a little more focused on the wind.

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And usually when we'd climb up in Huntington Ravine, we didn't go up to the summit.

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You would climb up to the top of the ravine, and you would hike over, hike across the Alpine Garden Trail and down Lion's Head.

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_02]: That was sort of the traditional way to do it.

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: We were that fixated on the summit.

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So I had actually never done a solo climb up there.

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: My friend couldn't go with me.

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, some of the gullies are pretty straightforward with modern equipment.

[01:05:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Even then, the equipment had really revolutionized in the 70s with ice climbing.

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a lot easier to – there was the rigid crampons and the shorter ice axes and whatnot.

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: In the 60s, when I first did ice climbing with the Worcester AMC, you had to chop steps.

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But that really changed.

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_02]: It really – Yvon Chouinard really revolutionized ice climbing.

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when I really got serious about ice climbing, we already had this front pointing and some of these other tools.

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And so to climb up what was the central gully, which is not the same one that I had been involved with.

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I had climbed up there multiple times with ropes, with partners.

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was very familiar with the mountain.

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And that had all happened since 68, of course.

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I told you I had developed myself as a mountaineer.

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I was pretty confident that going up the central gully by myself would be safe and reasonable, which it was.

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And I enjoyed myself.

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But I got to the top.

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I was a little concerned about the wind.

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And I almost crawled off onto the flat before I stood up because they were – you know, they were talking about 50-mile-an-hour winds.

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And 50-mile-an-hour wind is when you start getting knocked out.

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you get about 50-mile-an-hour winds, and it's very hard to move.

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_02]: You can move in a 50-mile-an-hour wind, but it's pretty much the limit.

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I got to the wind wasn't too bad.

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, okay, so now I've accomplished my day, and I'm scooting across the Alpine Garden and down the Lion's Head Winter Trail,

[01:06:50] [SPEAKER_02]: which is different than today's Winter Trail.

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a minor detail.

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_05]: But one question I do have is – so as you're coming up, Ken and Ali, they hit the summit.

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_05]: They're coming down.

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And now I'll just give you my – I mean, I've been on Mount Washington multiple times.

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I've always come up the Ammanusik side because I'm coming up with friends, and it's like – it's less stressful.

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's just coming up that way.

[01:07:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I was there yesterday.

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I do go up in the spring and the summer and the fall on the Pinkham Nod side.

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm trying to visualize, even in the worst conditions I've been on, and I've been in icy conditions where I've needed crampons coming up the cone from lakes to the clouds,

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I still can't visualize how somebody – so essentially what happened with Ken and Ali is they slipped.

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_05]: They fell about 800 to 1,000 feet down from the summit.

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I still can't visualize how they would directly fall in those conditions without at least having some stoppage on a rock or a boulder.

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_05]: It sounds like the snow was completely filled in, and then it just created like a sheet of ice.

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_05]: But was that common back then?

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I feel like it's –

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you have on that side of the mountain.

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you've been up like the Tuckerman Ravine Trail, to the right, if you're going up, is what they call the southeast snow field.

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's – so it's pretty much a snow field.

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Now there's occasional rocks stick out.

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've skied that southeast snow field on occasion.

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And people do glissade down that snow field.

[01:08:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think Ken Hoganson had done it previously.

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_02]: But the mistake he made that day was he didn't really anticipate these icy – I'm a little surprised because he had been up there before.

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_02]: He was experienced.

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_02]: They had come up from the lake of the clouds.

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: They should have seen these icy conditions.

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And he sort of underestimated what it was going to be like going down that way as opposed to maybe just to stick to the Tuckerman Ravine Trail.

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Ironically, two days later, a student from –

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Was it BU?

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_02]: BU.

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, BU.

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_02]: There was a BU student group up there.

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And somebody slipped.

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it's not – once you start falling, it's not that easy to stop.

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, you can self-arrest and stuff.

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But if you don't get it quick, you're flying.

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And an abused student died.

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was, again, because of the same – this freeze-up after rain had created those conditions.

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And they were even on the trail.

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So it wasn't as steep and there was more, you know, less likely to happen.

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think that was kind of the mistake that they made.

[01:09:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And then maybe they got knocked off their feet by the wind.

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't a little – it was a little unclear.

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, what's remarkable to me is how they came all the way down the summit cone.

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_02]: But when you get to the bottom of the summit cone, it's still like, I don't know, at least 100 yards or 200 yards across Alpine Garden.

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's flat.

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Somehow they had gone all – they had not only gone down that steep part, but they had gone right across the flat part too, which indicates how fast and icy it was.

[01:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Because if they had been farther back, I might not have even seen them.

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_05]: True.

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, true.

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And you're worried about the wind and you're sort of like, I'm heading over to Lion's Head.

[01:10:22] [SPEAKER_05]: So you get up – you basically top out from Huntington at the – you know, within – I think probably it sounds like –

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what the exact time is, but it sounds like to me it was probably within 20 minutes or so.

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_05]: You top out.

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_05]: They had already, you know, slid.

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Ken, unfortunately, had passed away.

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Ali had worked to get Ken at least into – partially into a sleeping bag and then made probably the heart-wrenching decision that he had to move on.

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And so you come upon that scene just as Ali's heading to Lion's Head.

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Can you talk about that a little bit?

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I looked across toward Lion's Head and I saw somebody – now again, I had seen one or two people that day.

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I said, I saw somebody and I thought I saw, which should not be true, dropped a pack.

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And it went sliding down into what's the ravine of Raymond Cataract, which is a ravine – it's not a big glacial ravine, but it's between Huntington and Tucker and Ravine.

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought, boy, that was really odd.

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_02]: What was that all about?

[01:11:23] [SPEAKER_02]: But I was kind of – well, I'll get over there and I'll find out because I was going that way anyway.

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So there wasn't any question about it.

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But then as I came across, I saw Ken Hokanson in the sleeping bag and I thought, you know, you don't know what to think.

[01:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: My first reaction is, oh, somebody's camping here.

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, nobody's camping.

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_02]: That's ridiculous.

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, quickly I realized, you know, this was a dead man.

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, when I took off my gloves, they blew off the mountain.

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I always have backup gloves.

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_02]: That's no problem.

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, I even had a pair for Ali when I came up on him later.

[01:11:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I was actually – when I used to go ice climbing, I'd have three pairs.

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'd have two backups.

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And I used them all that day.

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think one of the lessons of all of this is – well, as I've given talks to other people, I say, well, you know, you're going to have stuff.

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You never know what you're going to need or if you suddenly break your ankle.

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But you also need to be thinking, what if I came on somebody else?

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_02]: What if I came on a scene?

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a takeaway, you know, that you've got to be –

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_02]: are you going to be prepared to be able to help somebody else?

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you going to have enough equipment or whatever to be able to do that or the wherewithal?

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I kind of knelt down and I put my hand on his chest.

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It was still warm.

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I looked in this face.

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to – yeah, I was trying to take a pulse.

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But it was like, you know, the wind is howling, blowing.

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't hear anything.

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of screaming in this guy's face and it was pretty evident to me that he was dead.

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was incredibly shocking and, you know, you never expect to be put in a situation like that.

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_02]: But there I was.

[01:13:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it was sort of hard to leave him in a way.

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But I knew there was somebody else over there.

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, this guy had gotten in – he hadn't gotten in that sleep bag by himself.

[01:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: That was pretty clear.

[01:13:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It was pretty clear that – I assume that he had hit his head on the rocks at some point.

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably was what had killed him, my assumption.

[01:13:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Although, you know, who really knows?

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, I left and I headed over to – now, again, you know, no cell phones or anything.

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I just went for that.

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So I headed over to Lion's Head knowing that there was, you know, there was somebody else over there.

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And as I approached Lion's Head, if you go across the Alpine Garden Trail, you kind of drop down to Lion's Head.

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm coming up behind this guy sitting on the rocks at Lion's Head.

[01:13:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm thinking, well, what am I going to say?

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You know?

[01:13:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So I said, well, hello.

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Or, you know, how are you?

[01:14:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Or it was just one of these strange experiences.

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But this guy turns around and he had blood hanging off of his beard.

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: He had lost his gloves and his hands.

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_02]: They were just frozen.

[01:14:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And they had plenty of clothes.

[01:14:20] [SPEAKER_02]: But you can see how he had shred right through, like, his wind pants and his wool pants.

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_02]: They didn't have so much fleece back then.

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And not the long johns or whatever.

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: You can see bare skin on his legs.

[01:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was kind of horrifying.

[01:14:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you – and I don't know.

[01:14:38] [SPEAKER_05]: There's no way for you to know this with certainty.

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_05]: But do you think, like, if you had not come upon him and then, you know, Tom and Chris obviously helped out.

[01:14:48] [SPEAKER_05]: But do you think Ali would have got down on his own?

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Or was he close to being done at that point?

[01:14:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's a good question.

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe those two guys could have got him down.

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:15:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they didn't have as much experience.

[01:15:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they were – you know, what happened is two guys were coming up the trail.

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, picture, you know, on a winter day nowadays, it was actually a fairly nice day.

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, as it turned out.

[01:15:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, because you get out of the wind and it's no problem.

[01:15:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But you could – there was views and it wasn't such a bad day.

[01:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And my first reaction is, it's me and this guy.

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: This isn't going to be easy.

[01:15:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I was very – I felt very connected to him.

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm going to help this guy.

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I got out my extra gloves.

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I had a vest I put on and I put on some more clothes.

[01:15:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And – but what happened was there were two guys coming up the trail and on their way to the top.

[01:15:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And they'd spent the night in Herman Lake.

[01:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Their names were Chris and Tom.

[01:15:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And that sure made me excited because I was thinking, man, this is going to be easy to get this guy down by myself.

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Got it.

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I kind of left – I kind of left Ali for a minute because I didn't want to explain what was going on to these two guys in front of him.

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I just went down and told them.

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was perfect because one guy was going to go down.

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I said, you go down and get help and the other guy stay with me.

[01:16:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought it was important to write a message.

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And I tried to write it up with some toilet paper.

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_02]: That didn't work too good.

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_02]: The wind's piling.

[01:16:22] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was like up there.

[01:16:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's sort of an interesting aspect of the story.

[01:16:29] [SPEAKER_02]: This guy Chris takes out a little Bible, which I gave – afterwards he let me keep it.

[01:16:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I wrote a note on there.

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I knew the caretaker down at Tuckerman's ravine was a guy named Joe Gill.

[01:16:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So I wrote a message to Joe, you know, dead guy, and I wrote it on there.

[01:16:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I made an assumption these guys didn't have crampons or what were they doing up there.

[01:16:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But they did as it turned out.

[01:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they had lost them.

[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: The crampons ripped off somewhere.

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And so anyway, Chris went down and Tom and I were going to get this guy down.

[01:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And I never had any doubt we'd get him down.

[01:17:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe that's just the confidence that comes with experience.

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I actually remember that once when I was with Ali and helping him down,

[01:17:17] [SPEAKER_02]: it's kind of a positive experience.

[01:17:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I was kind of tested and enjoying myself and doing my best.

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it was a beautiful day and the wind was howling.

[01:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, but I think of it as sort of the culmination of years of experience.

[01:17:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I was confident that we would be able to do that.

[01:17:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And you're in your prime at this point.

[01:17:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Like you've been doing big mountains for 15 years.

[01:17:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I was slightly past my prime.

[01:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I got married in 1981.

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It's all downhill from there, right?

[01:17:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It's sort of a joke with my wife.

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I used to refer to like the late 70s as the glory year.

[01:17:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is before we had children.

[01:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I've been blessed with good health.

[01:18:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I'm 74 years old now.

[01:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I got up.

[01:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: At least I'm under the book time getting up to Lake of the Clouds.

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_02]: That's pretty good.

[01:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm blessed to be able to do that.

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I've got good health.

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And, but yeah, that was a period where, you know, I had done a lot of serious mountaineering at that point.

[01:18:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Now, there came a point where, you know, there's three of you.

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_05]: You're helping with Ali.

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Now, you could have just very easily just kept going down to Hermit Lake and, you know, relied on Joe to get on the radio and, you know, get some rescuers up there to get to Ken.

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_05]: But you made the decision to go back up.

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what happened was, you know, when Chris Hardiman got down to the, down to Tuckerman's, they radioed up to the, you know, we had radios back then.

[01:18:57] [SPEAKER_02]: They still have radios.

[01:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: But, but they radioed up to the Mount Washington Observatory and a guy named Albie Polkrobe was an experienced guy.

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And they said he came down looking for Ken.

[01:19:09] [SPEAKER_02]: He came down from the summit.

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And he somehow missed him.

[01:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: He didn't find him on the first take.

[01:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, at some point, we're going down the mountain and two guys came up.

[01:19:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And it wasn't actually Joe.

[01:19:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess I thought it was Joe, but I read the account.

[01:19:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Joe must have been on his day off.

[01:19:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It was Peter Crane, who's well known up there.

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_02]: He was, he's a historian for the Mount Washington Observatory.

[01:19:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I think he was working with Joe.

[01:19:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Peter Crane.

[01:19:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And then there was an, who was the other guy?

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_02]: There was a guy, there were a couple of guys climbing up there.

[01:19:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was, was it Chris Hebert?

[01:19:43] [SPEAKER_02]: But the other guy who was a pretty experienced climber who was with him.

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And they came up and they, and when, anyway, they showed up with the litter and they're going to take, they're going to take, get, we were at that point, we were getting down below treeline.

[01:19:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we're going to take him down.

[01:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it was starting to look like we had the situation under control, at least as far as for Ali.

[01:20:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And, but meanwhile, Albie hadn't found, they hadn't found Ken Hokanson.

[01:20:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So they asked if I would go up and help him.

[01:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Identify where he was.

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Can't say I was too thrilled about turning around.

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But I did at first.

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: But at some point I noticed I had a frostbite thumb and I just said, I think, I think I'm going to go down.

[01:20:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And, but they did eventually, those two guys plus Albie, they did find Hogan's body and they stayed up there.

[01:20:34] [SPEAKER_02]: They sat up there for a long time with him while there was a rescue.

[01:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they, they brought up some mountain rescue service guys from, you know, the Conway.

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_02]: They came up on a, on a snowcat up to the auto road and came across, it's not that far across, you know, from the Alpine Garden from the auto road.

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So, and, but, you know, they got them down in the middle of the night, you know, it wasn't, you know, they were up there after dark.

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:21:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:21:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And then you, so you had to, did you go to the hospital right afterwards when you got down or did you?

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I went down and I went into the, I went into the, the office there.

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a funny thing because Tom, you know, I'd been around AMC and I kind of knew kind of how they were organized.

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But it was a touching part of the story when Tom and Chris said that they got to the bottom and they just got in their car and kind of drove home.

[01:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they didn't know like, oh, check in over at the office.

[01:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know what I'm saying?

[01:21:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So I went over to the office and there was, there was a couple of guys.

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: There were people I knew.

[01:21:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew people around the HUD system.

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And then there was a guy from the, because Fish and Game is also, well, technically they're not responsible for the rescues on that side of the mountain.

[01:21:45] [SPEAKER_02]: The Forest Service is.

[01:21:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, Fish and Game guy was there.

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I think it was, there was a Dave Warren and Mike Torrey, I think were people I knew.

[01:21:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And, and you know, they were in there, you know, so they're on the radios and communicating.

[01:21:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I kind of went in there and gave them a little report.

[01:22:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And, and I think there was Joe or somebody, you know, put, they put my thumb in there and they're supposed to heat it up and put it in, you know, hot water for so many minutes or whatever they do, you know, for frostbite.

[01:22:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But I was feeling like, man, it was nice to have somebody taking care of me.

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I've been kind of the, I've been doing a lot of, even coming down the trail by myself, it was kind of a nice feeling.

[01:22:24] [SPEAKER_02]: The tuck trail, it kind of felt flat.

[01:22:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember it just felt flat.

[01:22:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just walking down the trail.

[01:22:29] [SPEAKER_02]: It was dark.

[01:22:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, at that point, you know, we got our headlands.

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a long day.

[01:22:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:22:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Now, at what point do you decide like, okay, I'm going to put this, I'm going to put this together for, for an article.

[01:22:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And then do you, so we talk a lot about search and rescue events in the White Mountains and we tend to like on the, on the podcast, like I don't ever like reach out to people that are involved in the rescue situations.

[01:22:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I don't know.

[01:22:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And we usually just kind of try not to, I used to be more judgmental about things and, you know, you would be kind of like, oh, you know, that would never happen to me.

[01:22:58] [SPEAKER_05]: But the more I've sort of looked at search and rescue situations, it's like, it can happen to anybody.

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, it's more about educating.

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But for the grace of God goes on.

[01:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I've seen that too on Facebook where people are quick to condemn.

[01:23:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, we get, any one of us can make a mistake at any time.

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And, and, you know, even yesterday, yesterday, I was good.

[01:23:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_05]: But do you have any, is, is there any qualms?

[01:23:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:23:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Is there any qualms about like, okay, you know, maybe this is too traumatic for people to talk, talk about it.

[01:23:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Was that not really a concern back then?

[01:23:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't know.

[01:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I reached out to the people and they said they would do it.

[01:23:36] [SPEAKER_02]: They said, yeah.

[01:23:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And Ali said he would do it.

[01:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the next day, I went back to the, I mean, this was pretty, for me, I was pretty, you know, I don't know, traumatized.

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: This was just a total life experience, you know.

[01:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't think about anything else.

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I bet.

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And my wife and I drove up to the hospital in Gorham and I went and visited, you know, Ali in the, you know, in the hospital as they were taking care of him.

[01:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And unfortunately, I lost contact here after him.

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Although since I've talked to you, I've been trying to track him down.

[01:24:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I started Googling last night and I found a phone number.

[01:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I called.

[01:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I left a message.

[01:24:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So if what I found out is right, he's still in Maine.

[01:24:23] [SPEAKER_02]: But maybe I'll connect with him at some point.

[01:24:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Then that would be interesting.

[01:24:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know.

[01:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I suppose there is a sensitivity to that.

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I do feel, you know, as someone who grew up with Appalachia, I mean, there's a lot of good stories to be told.

[01:24:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think, in fact, in that new edition of Appalachia, there's two stories in there that I'm spacing out what they are right now.

[01:24:48] [SPEAKER_02]: But they're a rescue.

[01:24:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm encouraging the author that we should have more major stories around this.

[01:24:54] [SPEAKER_02]: We do have the accident reports in there, which people look at.

[01:24:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But to have more personalized stories.

[01:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'll tell you, I've been doing this hot naturalist thing.

[01:25:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And two years ago, I was up at Lake of the Clouds.

[01:25:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And just about this, well, it was at the end of June.

[01:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And somebody had died of hypothermia on the ridge.

[01:25:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Two days before.

[01:25:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Two days before.

[01:25:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And later, people were just buzzing about it.

[01:25:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously, a death in the mountains, especially in the summertime.

[01:25:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:25:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Because that was like the day of the Mount Washington Road Race that happened that day, too.

[01:25:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And that was a...

[01:25:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, is that right?

[01:25:37] [SPEAKER_05]: It was just extremely cold.

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm assuming it's the...

[01:25:40] [SPEAKER_05]: It was rain.

[01:25:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It was extreme rain.

[01:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: It was rain and cold.

[01:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I'm up at Lake of the Clouds even yesterday.

[01:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And they were talking about these severe thunderstorms.

[01:25:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, is it a good idea to cross the ridge, you know, to Madison or from Madison to Lakes?

[01:25:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, you're really exposed out there if the weather...

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And they had, you know, they did have some bad thunderstorms, but there weren't until last night.

[01:26:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you have to be really conscious of this.

[01:26:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But that particular incident with this man who died in June 2023 was written up in one of the magazines.

[01:26:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I forget which one.

[01:26:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And he had actually texted his wife during this whole traverse.

[01:26:27] [SPEAKER_02]: At one point, he texted her and said, I'm getting hypothermic.

[01:26:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But he didn't leave the ridge.

[01:26:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And he texted her two hours later.

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And he said, I can't move now.

[01:26:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And he died.

[01:26:40] [SPEAKER_02]: That's heartbreaking.

[01:26:42] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you've got to be ready to bail out.

[01:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think there's been some wonderful stories.

[01:26:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Ty Gagne has written a couple of great books.

[01:26:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you've interviewed Ty.

[01:26:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, we have.

[01:26:52] [SPEAKER_05]: We've interviewed him multiple times, yeah.

[01:26:56] [SPEAKER_02]: The stories he's done about the mountain rescue and some of the psychology of it.

[01:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And how hypothermia affects people.

[01:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Where you'll find me.

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And the other one is, what's the name of the other one?

[01:27:07] [SPEAKER_05]: The Last Traverse.

[01:27:08] [SPEAKER_02]: The Last Traverse.

[01:27:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably the Last Traverse might be a little more identifiable for the average hiker.

[01:27:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it was two kind of regular guys.

[01:27:17] [SPEAKER_02]: They were conquered coach bus drivers.

[01:27:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And one of them had a tremendous amount of experience.

[01:27:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And yet, you know, he didn't quite anticipate the forecast or whatever.

[01:27:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So, it's definitely true.

[01:27:31] [SPEAKER_02]: This can happen to anybody.

[01:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yesterday I'm coming down and it did start to rain as I was coming down the Jewel Trail.

[01:27:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I'm just being really, really cautious about where I step.

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, it doesn't take much.

[01:27:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've been lucky.

[01:27:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've had some close calls.

[01:27:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I wrote up some of my own personal close calls for another Appalachia story.

[01:27:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we might have to have you.

[01:27:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like I've got to have you back probably about ten times to go through some of this stuff.

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Because there's some good stories.

[01:27:59] [SPEAKER_05]: But one thing I did want to ask you about is the main reason why I got this version of the Summer 84 book is I was researching Michael Miller who had gone missing in November or October of 83.

[01:28:14] [SPEAKER_05]: This was in Franconia.

[01:28:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And he was never located.

[01:28:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And we had talked about this a little bit before we started recording.

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_05]: So, you said you were on that search.

[01:28:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it was fascinating.

[01:28:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Again, they didn't have the infrastructure for search and rescue.

[01:28:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:28:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But I had found out about it.

[01:28:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And I went over and volunteered one day.

[01:28:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And we were up on the, you know, up on the summit.

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I was with a fish cop.

[01:28:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And I introduced myself.

[01:28:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, they were, you know, they were, you know, now with like the PEMI search and rescue, when those people show up, they know they're people that are experienced and prepared.

[01:28:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think in this particular case, it was just people were showing up.

[01:28:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Or at one point, they had scouts doing a traverse.

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And I said to the fish cop, I said, you know, they're in an area with a lot of rocks.

[01:29:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if that's a good place.

[01:29:02] [SPEAKER_02]: They had to make judgments about that.

[01:29:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So, I had to introduce myself and say, you know, I used to work for the AMC.

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And so that I had some experience.

[01:29:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But we were up looking up near the summit cone of Lafayette, like going into the sort of the crumb holes along the way.

[01:29:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And, yeah, I didn't remember that name and that person.

[01:29:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And to my recollection, it was funny you brought it up because I had never seen anything about that.

[01:29:29] [SPEAKER_02]: That would be a good story for somebody to write about.

[01:29:31] [SPEAKER_02]: The body was never found because they were actually looking low down early on.

[01:29:36] [SPEAKER_02]: They were looking below like the bridle path.

[01:29:40] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, there's a whole slope there between where the Greenleaf Trail is and the bridle path.

[01:29:45] [SPEAKER_02]: They were down looking there.

[01:29:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And then somebody, then they got a report that somebody had seen them higher up.

[01:29:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So, all of a sudden, we were looking up higher, you know, kind of crawling around in the crumb hole.

[01:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So, I wonder if it was a situation similar to that young lady that's a tragic story last year, that young lady who died.

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, coming down Lafayette Brook.

[01:30:06] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, people get coming down that trail.

[01:30:09] [SPEAKER_05]: They missed that turn, yep.

[01:30:11] [SPEAKER_02]: They missed that turn and they end up over into that Lafayette Brook drainage.

[01:30:16] [SPEAKER_02]: My guess is that's where he ended up, over there somewhere.

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:30:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't recall that they had never found the body, but I was interested that you could do more research on it.

[01:30:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And I did put a message out on Reddit.

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_05]: There's an unresolved mystery thing.

[01:30:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And some of his family members chimed in about it because I did a summary on it.

[01:30:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, they did some interesting tidbits.

[01:30:40] [SPEAKER_05]: They said, like, he had a 35-millimeter camera on him.

[01:30:43] [SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, you could go out there with a magnet and look around, see what you could pick up.

[01:30:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, who knows?

[01:30:48] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's tough to know.

[01:30:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's literally a needle in a haystack.

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, now especially, you know.

[01:30:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So, it's been, what, 17, 40 years?

[01:30:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:30:59] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a long time.

[01:31:00] [SPEAKER_02]: 40 years.

[01:31:02] [SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, interesting story from 83, Doug.

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_05]: But I have you for a few more minutes, and I wanted to touch on a couple of other topics.

[01:31:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe not all specific to hiking, but I feel like, you know, we do general sort of New Hampshire topics as well.

[01:31:16] [SPEAKER_05]: So, one of the things that interested me is that you spent a number of years in the New Hampshire State Legislature.

[01:31:24] [SPEAKER_05]: New Hampshire, do you, is there anything, did you get involved at all in, like, search and rescue funding or funding for the development of trails or anything like that?

[01:31:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Can you talk a little bit about that?

[01:31:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I mean, you know, Fish and Game Department, you know, in different states, there's different roles.

[01:31:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But New Hampshire Fish and Game Department is responsible for rescues.

[01:31:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And that, you know, and that's been for a very long time.

[01:31:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And you remember when I told you the Fish and Game, the Fish Cop, we called him the Fish Cop, was down at the base of Pinkham Notch that day in the office when I came down.

[01:32:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So, they have the official responsibility for it.

[01:32:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And over time, you know, there's more and more and more rescues.

[01:32:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, it became a big, it's been historically been a big issue in the legislature.

[01:32:13] [SPEAKER_02]: How are we going to pay for this?

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, the argument is if somebody's got a snowmobile license or an ATV license or a hunting license, when they go searching for those people, they, you know, they're at least contributing to Fish and Game.

[01:32:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But there's more and more of these rescues.

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's phenomenal how many rescues there are.

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_02]: There's something going on every week, it seems.

[01:32:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And, well, I want to make sure I tell you a story about the top of Mount Washington.

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'll come back to that, being up there yesterday and the list of people that have died up there.

[01:32:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I was really about that before we're done.

[01:32:53] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, so Fish and Game had been pushing the legislature for more money.

[01:32:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, in New Hampshire, we're very frugal when it comes to it.

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So, we don't have the sales and the income tax.

[01:33:03] [SPEAKER_02]: But eventually, after many years, they developed the Hike Safe Card program.

[01:33:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So, it's really, you know, I encourage anybody who's hiking in the mountains to pay, you know, chip in their $25.

[01:33:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not really so much about insurance.

[01:33:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yes, they will bill people who are negligent.

[01:33:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think there's too many people who are negligent that have a Hike Safe Card.

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So, it's mostly just a way to contribute to all the time that goes into the search and rescue.

[01:33:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, now we have these other groups.

[01:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: We have the Mountain Rescue Service.

[01:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: They've been around longer.

[01:33:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But now you've got the PEMI Search and Rescue.

[01:33:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And you've got the Anders Koggin Search and Rescue.

[01:33:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think there's one in the Upper Valley now where you have, you know.

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're someone who's doing a lot of hiking and you'd like to contribute, that's a great way to volunteer.

[01:34:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you just have to be ready.

[01:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to be called out who knows when, you know, like your friend was talking about.

[01:34:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I never joined those groups.

[01:34:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I was overseas.

[01:34:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I lived overseas for a number of years.

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And by the time I got back, I was getting kind of older.

[01:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So, at this point, I'd be a liability in those.

[01:34:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But you never know when you're going to come on the scene of Search and Rescue.

[01:34:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I happened on one up on Moncardian where they were carrying somebody off.

[01:34:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:34:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And if you do come across one of those, like, you know, it's all hands on deck.

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, they're not going to ask you.

[01:34:36] [SPEAKER_05]: They'll be happy to take the work.

[01:34:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Now, one other thing about the New Hampshire State Legislature.

[01:34:40] [SPEAKER_05]: So, you're involved in leadership training.

[01:34:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Can you talk a little bit about, you know, my impression.

[01:34:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm always fascinated with the New Hampshire State Legislature because I'm a Massachusetts guy.

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_05]: So, we've got, like, these politicians.

[01:34:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, they've got a full-time job.

[01:34:54] [SPEAKER_05]: They're getting paid for their committee assignments.

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_05]: They've got pensions.

[01:34:57] [SPEAKER_05]: They've got everything.

[01:34:57] [SPEAKER_05]: So, the New Hampshire State Legislature is very unique because it sort of goes back to sort of the founding principles of the country where it's really like a citizen legislature where it's not full-time.

[01:35:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Nobody's getting paid big money to be in the legislature.

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And you have a very high volume of legislatures or representatives in the legislature.

[01:35:18] [SPEAKER_05]: So, that breeds sort of a unique dynamic where, yeah, you get more of a diverse background of people in the legislature.

[01:35:30] [SPEAKER_05]: But you may not get people that are as seasoned or trained like you would a classic politician from a place where it's like a full-time job.

[01:35:40] [SPEAKER_05]: So, can you talk a little bit about, like, were you involved in getting that?

[01:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure. Well, I mean, every state's different.

[01:35:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's sort of two models.

[01:35:45] [SPEAKER_02]: There's sort of what they call the volunteer legislature and the professional legislature.

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, New Hampshire's on one extreme of the volunteer legislature.

[01:35:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. Yeah.

[01:35:53] [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, it's a small state.

[01:35:55] [SPEAKER_02]: There's only 1.3 million people or whatever.

[01:35:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's also got a very big legislature, 400.

[01:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It's one of the biggest.

[01:36:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you don't represent that many people.

[01:36:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's in the Constitution you get paid $100 a year.

[01:36:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, that used to be maybe when the state constitution was passed, that was a fair amount of money.

[01:36:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But it isn't much right now.

[01:36:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Although, we'll say it's the only job I ever had where you get paid two years in advance.

[01:36:18] [SPEAKER_02]: They give you a check for $197, they take out a little Social Security or whatever.

[01:36:23] [SPEAKER_02]: But, I mean, that is part of the ethos of the New Hampshire legislature.

[01:36:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And I did it for 12 years.

[01:36:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a wonderful experience.

[01:36:30] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, politics now has gotten so divisive.

[01:36:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And my biggest project these days, I mentioned that I was overseas.

[01:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I ran the Peace Corps.

[01:36:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was in Ukraine when Putin invaded in 2014.

[01:36:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And I had Peace Corps volunteers.

[01:36:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And I also went through Ebola in West Africa.

[01:36:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I was evacuating for Peace Corps volunteers.

[01:36:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I was sort of the bad luck country director.

[01:36:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But when I came back home in 2016, I have a small consulting business, Growing Leadership LLC.

[01:37:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm passionate about leadership.

[01:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But I spend most of my time these days volunteering with a group called Braver Angels

[01:37:11] [SPEAKER_02]: that's trying to get people to have respectful conversations across the political divide.

[01:37:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean you're evil and you're stupid.

[01:37:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And when I was in the legislature, that was much more the spirit of it.

[01:37:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we disagreed with each other, but it didn't mean you weren't a patriot.

[01:37:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And we've gotten into this very nasty situation.

[01:37:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd really encourage people to go check out BraverAngels.org.

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of free workshops you can attend.

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was just out in Kenosha, Wisconsin at a national convention a couple weeks ago.

[01:37:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And what's exciting, I'm back working with the legislature because we now have a caucus of legislators

[01:37:46] [SPEAKER_02]: who are interested in this.

[01:37:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And one of them came out to Kenosha to the Braver Angel convention.

[01:37:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm still working with the New Hampshire legislature.

[01:37:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not just strictly as a volunteer.

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm proud of that work.

[01:38:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's sort of, I'm also writing a book right now.

[01:38:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm very passionate about this work.

[01:38:07] [SPEAKER_02]: It's called Beyond the Politics of Contempt.

[01:38:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Practical steps you can take to make our country better.

[01:38:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So just getting people to sort of step back and think about how are we treating each other.

[01:38:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And I do encourage people to check out BraverAngels.org.

[01:38:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and it is, I had sort of my own journey during like COVID where I was like, you know,

[01:38:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I would see people that were, you know, family members, cutting off family members over different disagreements

[01:38:33] [SPEAKER_05]: and things like that.

[01:38:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And I had my own sort of, and I actually did stumble upon Braver Angels.

[01:38:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And I learned about like the hidden tribes model, which is a nice way to look at things.

[01:38:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Just to say like, all right, it's not team A and team B.

[01:38:47] [SPEAKER_05]: It's actually, there's like seven or eight teams and it's really two teams that are on the extremes of,

[01:38:52] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, the sides that suck up all the oxygen in the room.

[01:38:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Everybody focuses on them.

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_05]: But there's these five or six other groups of people that don't really, you know, don't have that same agenda.

[01:39:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And the things that we do now, it's like the media is set up basically to cater to the divisiveness

[01:39:10] [SPEAKER_05]: because that's what gets the clicks and that's the revenue model.

[01:39:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And the legislatures and our leaders sort of play into that.

[01:39:17] [SPEAKER_05]: But like in the old days, you know, you'd have, my understanding is like Tip O'Neill and whoever,

[01:39:22] [SPEAKER_05]: they would have dinner together.

[01:39:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And through eating and things like that, they would be able to keep a channel of communication together.

[01:39:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think we're missing that.

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, I don't know if it's going to be solved anytime soon,

[01:39:34] [SPEAKER_05]: but I appreciate you, you know, working on trying to figure out a way to do that.

[01:39:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is what I'm committed to.

[01:39:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm glad you mentioned that hidden tribes report.

[01:39:42] [SPEAKER_02]: People can Google that, but they talk about the exhausted majority of the people who aren't on the extremes.

[01:39:46] [SPEAKER_02]: One portion of the extreme agenda.

[01:39:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, people, you know, we have a lot more in common than we realize,

[01:39:54] [SPEAKER_02]: but there are people out there that are trying to divide us.

[01:39:57] [SPEAKER_02]: We call them conflict entrepreneurs.

[01:39:59] [SPEAKER_02]: People making money and power by being divisive.

[01:40:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And we've got to step back and say, wait a minute, just because you don't agree with me,

[01:40:07] [SPEAKER_02]: that means, you know, of course you're going to have disagreements in politics.

[01:40:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You should have disagreements.

[01:40:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But that doesn't, let's not personalize it.

[01:40:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And one of my chapters in my book is how did family, how did politics become more important than family?

[01:40:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Just what you were talking about.

[01:40:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's terrible that people are having these issues with family members over politics.

[01:40:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But can I just tell one story?

[01:40:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I know we're coming up on the end.

[01:40:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:40:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, sure.

[01:40:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead.

[01:40:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, some years ago when I was up on top of Mount Washington, I discovered they have a plaque up there.

[01:40:45] [SPEAKER_02]: The people that died on Mount Washington, they define it kind of loosely as the, I think, the presidential range.

[01:40:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And Ken Hokanson is number 98 on that list.

[01:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And I always sort of took a moment when I was, after I realized they had that list.

[01:41:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And whenever I was up there, I would always just kind of have a little sacred moment next to that plaque, which I happened to have yesterday.

[01:41:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't get up there that often, maybe once a year.

[01:41:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, that was a terrible loss of life, and I feel terrible about it.

[01:41:20] [SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, for me, that was a very meaningful experience that really shaped my life in a lot of ways in terms of some sort of the spiritual values of my own life.

[01:41:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I used to be a little more critical of people before that.

[01:41:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And over time, I became a little more tolerant and a little more respectful, a little less judgmental of people.

[01:41:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And I take that away from that experience.

[01:41:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sorry that it had to take someone's life.

[01:41:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But it was just a coincidence.

[01:41:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I was up there yesterday standing next to that plaque.

[01:41:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was just a solemn, special moment for me.

[01:41:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm delighted that you found my story.

[01:41:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'd encourage people to check it out if you can get an old Appalachia or get the book, No Limits But the Sky, which is an AMC.

[01:42:07] [SPEAKER_02]: They took some selection of articles over the years from Appalachia.

[01:42:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's still in print, I believe.

[01:42:14] [SPEAKER_02]: The Appalachian Mountain Club has that account.

[01:42:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And the lessons are be prepared when you're out there.

[01:42:22] [SPEAKER_02]: You never quite know what you might find either in yourself or your injury or trying to prevent that.

[01:42:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And also be prepared if you happen to be on the scene and someone needs your help.

[01:42:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Because, you know, we all, that's part of the sort of responsibility of being out in the mountains.

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And the mountains have been such a big part of my life.

[01:42:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just grateful.

[01:42:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm grateful for all the experiences I've had.

[01:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm grateful I'm still able to do it.

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I did Mount Washington yesterday at age 74.

[01:42:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not breaking any speed records.

[01:42:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But I got down in one piece.

[01:42:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm grateful for it.

[01:43:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I appreciate you taking the time to sit down with me.

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, fate, I'm glad that, you know, you and Chris came together.

[01:43:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And he was able to give me your number and I could reach out.

[01:43:12] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, and I think the thing that I take away is like what you said is exactly right.

[01:43:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Like be prepared.

[01:43:17] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's not just about your own safety.

[01:43:19] [SPEAKER_05]: But you may need to get, you can get called into action at any one time.

[01:43:22] [SPEAKER_05]: So have three pairs of gloves.

[01:43:24] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's a little heavy.

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, have everything that you need in order to, you know, spring into action if you need to.

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And, Doug, definitely I think I've got a bunch of questions that I could cover with you.

[01:43:37] [SPEAKER_05]: But we're limited on time.

[01:43:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I want to talk about, I'd love to talk about like you're developing the trail system on Hancock and the arrow slide and all that.

[01:43:44] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, let's stay in touch.

[01:43:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And maybe we can get back together and cover another topic.

[01:43:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be delighted to do that.

[01:43:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Mike, for the work you're doing.

[01:43:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, appreciate it.

[01:43:54] [SPEAKER_05]: So thank you very much.

[01:43:58] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, Stomp.

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_05]: So what do you think?

[01:44:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Pretty interesting, huh?

[01:44:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, good stuff.

[01:44:03] [SPEAKER_04]: What an interesting life.

[01:44:04] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a crazy story.

[01:44:06] [SPEAKER_04]: The one comment I have just for the sake of time is that I love the fact that he calls conservation officers fish cops.

[01:44:15] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like you could, it just pegs him to a specific generation.

[01:44:19] [SPEAKER_04]: It's so great.

[01:44:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:44:22] [SPEAKER_05]: But he's great.

[01:44:23] [SPEAKER_05]: And he mentioned it, I think, on the show.

[01:44:26] [SPEAKER_05]: But he's probably, he said he's one of the most prolific article writers for the Appalachia Journal.

[01:44:32] [SPEAKER_05]: So documenting that history is so important.

[01:44:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you never know.

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Incredible.

[01:44:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[01:44:40] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, Stomp.

[01:44:41] [SPEAKER_05]: So I've got another, Stomp, I've been working overtime.

[01:44:45] [SPEAKER_05]: What have you been doing here?

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I got another segment I did.

[01:44:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, this seems like punishment for the whole Aurora segment because now I have to edit these two gigantic segments.

[01:44:54] [SPEAKER_05]: That's true.

[01:44:55] [SPEAKER_05]: That is true.

[01:44:56] [SPEAKER_05]: But anyway, so I had mentioned this probably a week or two ago, but I had, Scott Eugley had reached out to me and had given me a heads up about the race series that they're doing for the Loon Echo Land Trust.

[01:45:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And again, this is the Lakes Region, Western Maine is my hood.

[01:45:14] [SPEAKER_05]: So I immediately wanted to jump on this and I've been talking to Scott a little bit over email.

[01:45:19] [SPEAKER_05]: So he was able to sit down with me and we had Addy as well and the two organizers of the races that are coming up.

[01:45:27] [SPEAKER_05]: So let's go in and we'll find out a little bit about the Loon Echo Land Trust and a little bit about the race series.

[01:45:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And then we'll come out and do recent search and rescue.

[01:45:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, actually, no, we'll do your lost person strategy and then recent search and rescue.

[01:45:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, cool.

[01:45:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Sounds great.

[01:45:48] [SPEAKER_05]: So welcome, Scott and Addy to the Slasher podcast.

[01:45:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Scott, have you ever been on a podcast before?

[01:45:55] [SPEAKER_11]: No, first time on a podcast.

[01:45:58] [SPEAKER_05]: First time.

[01:45:59] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[01:45:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, Addy, you look like you've got a little bit of broadcasting experience.

[01:46:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to guess, have you ever been on a podcast before?

[01:46:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I've been on one for trail running.

[01:46:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Trail running.

[01:46:08] [SPEAKER_05]: What was the name of the podcast?

[01:46:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you remember?

[01:46:10] [SPEAKER_09]: I think it was the all in trails.

[01:46:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Nope.

[01:46:13] [SPEAKER_09]: I actually don't remember.

[01:46:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:46:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And then just so you're a trail runner.

[01:46:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Did you sort of talk about your trail running exploits?

[01:46:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we're both big trail runners.

[01:46:23] [SPEAKER_09]: We do a lot of the white mountain endurance races.

[01:46:25] [SPEAKER_09]: We did Jigger Johnson last year.

[01:46:28] [SPEAKER_09]: We run all over the whites.

[01:46:30] [SPEAKER_09]: It's like our favorite thing to do.

[01:46:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm going to ask you a little bit about Jigger Johnson because I'm curious about that later.

[01:46:36] [SPEAKER_05]: But so you're both here.

[01:46:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So Scott had reached out to me to talk a little bit about the Loon Echo Land Trust, which is a nonprofit organization that can serve, protects, and maintains a lot of trails in the lakes region of Maine.

[01:46:50] [SPEAKER_05]: So I call it like the western Maine area.

[01:46:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And typically you can sort of look out on most of the mountains on the whites and you can see like Pleasant Mountain and other areas sticking out.

[01:47:00] [SPEAKER_05]: And I get over there quite a lot.

[01:47:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And there's a couple of trail races that are coming up in September and October that we're going to talk about.

[01:47:08] [SPEAKER_05]: But I guess maybe to start off with Scott and Addy, if you could both introduce yourself.

[01:47:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Scott, you can start off.

[01:47:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Tell a little bit about yourself, your background, a little bit about how you got into outdoor activities.

[01:47:19] [SPEAKER_11]: For sure.

[01:47:20] [SPEAKER_11]: So I had a pretty non-traditional start to hiking and trail running, I would say.

[01:47:25] [SPEAKER_11]: I was very much not an athletic kid sort of in my early years and throughout high school.

[01:47:30] [SPEAKER_11]: I was more of a music kid.

[01:47:32] [SPEAKER_11]: I would say sort of in my mid-20s, I started road running just for more of the health benefits of it.

[01:47:40] [SPEAKER_11]: I just felt like I needed to start exercising.

[01:47:43] [SPEAKER_11]: Probably spent a solid two years as a road runner doing 5Ks, 10Ks, half marathons, road marathons.

[01:47:51] [SPEAKER_11]: And then one of my buddies turned me on to this incredibly epic hike that I'm sure many of you know, and that's the Presidential Traverse.

[01:48:00] [SPEAKER_11]: Once I heard about that, I was sort of like, I got to do this.

[01:48:05] [SPEAKER_11]: So it took two attempts for me to do at first, but I did end up completing it.

[01:48:11] [SPEAKER_11]: I do remember driving home the day that I did the Presidential Traverse, seeing them, seeing the mountains in my rearview mirror and just being like, man, like, it just really drew me to the mountains.

[01:48:22] [SPEAKER_11]: I couldn't get enough.

[01:48:22] [SPEAKER_11]: I was then out there every single weekend tackling the 48, and that sort of evolved from hiking into trail running and sort of where I'm at today, sort of doing trail races and competing in the circuits and stuff like that.

[01:48:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Awesome.

[01:48:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And then, Addie, what's your background with hiking and outdoor adventures?

[01:48:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, so I grew up in the lakes region of Maine, so grew up hiking.

[01:48:45] [SPEAKER_09]: My grandmother was a big hiker.

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_09]: She was also, like, an adventurer.

[01:48:50] [SPEAKER_09]: She climbed mountains out in the Alps and in the Himalayas, and she did the 4,000-footers back in the 80s and 90s.

[01:48:55] [SPEAKER_09]: So I grew up seeing, like, her pictures of it and her telling stories, and I couldn't wait to do them myself.

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_09]: So as soon as I was old enough to drive, I was out in the whites every single day, every single weekend doing the 48.

[01:49:09] [SPEAKER_09]: I was mostly a hiker at first, a backpacker, and then I discovered that if I ran, I could cover a lot more ground in a day.

[01:49:15] [SPEAKER_09]: So I started trail running through that, and yeah, now that's what we do.

[01:49:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Awesome.

[01:49:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And then you're both involved with the Loon Echo Land Trust.

[01:49:25] [SPEAKER_05]: How involved are you?

[01:49:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Are you just supporting the race series, or do you also work in support of the Land Trust?

[01:49:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And I guess, Scott, you can answer that.

[01:49:35] [SPEAKER_11]: So we do work for Loon Echo Land Trust just on a volunteer basis.

[01:49:39] [SPEAKER_11]: Our capacity is mostly within the realm of the race series.

[01:49:47] [SPEAKER_11]: So yeah, we're not, like, full-time employees of the Loon Echo Land Trust, but we really love what we're doing,

[01:49:52] [SPEAKER_11]: and we gladly volunteer our time to help fundraise and run these races for them.

[01:49:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Awesome.

[01:49:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And Addy, can you speak a little bit about the, so just for the listeners, like, the areas that I think would be most familiar is, like, Pleasant Mountain in Denmark, which used to be called Shawnee Peak.

[01:50:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I talk about it actually a lot on the show because it's, like, one of my go-to places to go hiking when I don't have a lot of time.

[01:50:16] [SPEAKER_05]: But there's a bunch of other locations, and generally, there's 14 preserves in the Loon Echo Land Trust spread out across Western Maine.

[01:50:25] [SPEAKER_05]: But can you give, like, your summary on what the trust oversees?

[01:50:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[01:50:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, so Loon Echo conserves land across seven towns in the Lakes region.

[01:50:35] [SPEAKER_09]: So it's Denmark, Naples, Sebago, Bridgeton, Harrison, Casco, and Raymond.

[01:50:40] [SPEAKER_09]: They have 9,300 acres of protected land and over 32 miles of trails.

[01:50:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Some of the more popular ones are, like, the big one is Pleasant Mountain.

[01:50:51] [SPEAKER_09]: That was sort of the catalyst to a lot of the conservation that they've done.

[01:50:54] [SPEAKER_09]: But we also have a bunch of local stuff.

[01:50:56] [SPEAKER_09]: We have, like, Pondicherry Park, which is in downtown Bridgeton.

[01:51:00] [SPEAKER_09]: We have Hackers Hill in Casco that's really popular.

[01:51:02] [SPEAKER_09]: We have, like, film festivals, live music, sunsets, yoga, and all sorts of things there.

[01:51:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, there's places like Raymond Community Forest where there's even rock climbing.

[01:51:12] [SPEAKER_09]: It's, there's kind of something for everyone where, if you want to, you can go out and run 20 miles on Pleasant Mountain.

[01:51:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Or you can access, like, a wheelchair accessible trail in Pondicherry Park.

[01:51:22] [SPEAKER_09]: There's, there's always something for everyone.

[01:51:29] [SPEAKER_09]: I think, I mean, I love Pleasant Mountain.

[01:51:32] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm on ski patrol at Pleasant Mountain.

[01:51:34] [SPEAKER_09]: I spend so much time there running and skiing.

[01:51:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, but we're also big fans of Bald Pate.

[01:51:39] [SPEAKER_09]: You can, you can link a surprisingly, like, a good run there, uh, with all the loops and all the trails you can do.

[01:51:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I get, I get asked a lot, like, um, people will say, oh, you know, what is there to do?

[01:51:52] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, what's, what's sort of a hidden gem?

[01:51:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And I always tell people, like, a great day for me is to go to downtown Bridgeton.

[01:51:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And, like, I'll poke around, like, the bookstore down there.

[01:52:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll go to Rennie's.

[01:52:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll go to the corn store.

[01:52:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And then walk around that Pondicherry area.

[01:52:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And then there's another, I think there's another museum over there as well.

[01:52:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, it's a great way to, um, to spend an afternoon.

[01:52:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, I think that that Pondicherry area, I know, it's, it's wheelchair accessible and it's got some great areas.

[01:52:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think it's a ton of mileage on there.

[01:52:20] [SPEAKER_05]: But you can, you can go back in there and get lost for a little while.

[01:52:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, definitely.

[01:52:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, and there's another one that's close to where we live that has recently developed a good amount of trails on it.

[01:52:29] [SPEAKER_09]: The Crooked River Forest in Harrison.

[01:52:31] [SPEAKER_09]: You pretty much never see people there.

[01:52:33] [SPEAKER_09]: But it's gorgeous.

[01:52:34] [SPEAKER_09]: It follows the river.

[01:52:35] [SPEAKER_09]: It's super, super peaceful.

[01:52:37] [SPEAKER_09]: And Fluvio Brewery is right down the road.

[01:52:39] [SPEAKER_09]: So you can make a day out of it as well.

[01:52:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:52:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And do you, I know, like, I'm a runner as well.

[01:52:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I run basically, you know, usually about 25, 30 miles a week.

[01:52:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And I do some trail running.

[01:52:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but I, I, I try to shy away from the, the, the crazy up and downs when I'm doing trail running.

[01:52:55] [SPEAKER_05]: So I prefer to try to find trails that are flat.

[01:52:57] [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm assuming that if you're like me, these areas here, you can find a fair amount of trail running where you don't have to do a lot of up and downs.

[01:53:06] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a little bit flatter, right?

[01:53:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:53:08] [SPEAKER_09]: I would say the Crooked River Forest would be really good for that.

[01:53:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Or Pondicherry Park.

[01:53:12] [SPEAKER_09]: I know for a while they were hosting an intro to trail running series there.

[01:53:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, so that's a good spot.

[01:53:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Bald Pate is like sort of an in-between and then Pleasant would be one of the harder ones.

[01:53:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[01:53:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And then if you want to climb and get some views, then it's, it's Pleasant Mountain and Bald Pate would be the two that give you a little bit of elevation and some views, right?

[01:53:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, definitely.

[01:53:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Especially Pleasant.

[01:53:31] [SPEAKER_09]: The network of trails on there are gorgeous.

[01:53:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, really you could, you could do a lot there.

[01:53:36] [SPEAKER_09]: It's a small mountain, but there's a lot.

[01:53:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:53:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:53:39] [SPEAKER_05]: So I've, I got to check.

[01:53:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I probably hiked every trail and went from every trailhead there.

[01:53:43] [SPEAKER_05]: So for Pleasant Mountain, for people that haven't done it, essentially like you can go up, there's like a fire warden's trail or a fire trail.

[01:53:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, that's kind of along the ski resort, the ski hills.

[01:53:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And then there's Bald Peak, which is off of Mountain Road, which is, that's my, that's kind of my favorite ascent.

[01:54:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and then that brings you along a ridge where you can do blueberry picking this time of the year and then brings you out to a fire tower.

[01:54:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Have you guys ever climbed the fire tower?

[01:54:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I know you're not supposed to, but I do climb it up to like, to touch the bottom of it at least.

[01:54:15] [SPEAKER_09]: I think like in high school.

[01:54:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:54:18] [SPEAKER_09]: You can't help it.

[01:54:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I'm in my fifties now and I still, I still sneak up there.

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, but it's good.

[01:54:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Now, how many times have you, have you climbed a Pleasant Mountain, Addy, do you think?

[01:54:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I don't know.

[01:54:31] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, between growing up here and we run it like once a week, sometimes like multiple times in the same run, probably like a hundred something times, like a lot.

[01:54:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I tell people too, um, Pleasant Mountain and Burnt Mountain, um, they do not give you any, like you're, you're on the treadmill on, you know, 12 degree, like right away.

[01:54:54] [SPEAKER_05]: That's the one thing that I always tell people about Pleasant Mountain and Burnt Meadow is that, you know, you're going up.

[01:54:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And even though people think of these mountains as like, oh, they're these small little mountains over in Western Maine, the hiking on them can be as tough as some of the 52 with the views for sure.

[01:55:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:55:10] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think another one is there's actually a fastest known time route on the mountain where if you do all the trails, it's called the Pleasant Mountain Quad.

[01:55:18] [SPEAKER_09]: So if anyone's a hardcore hiker or runner, that's, it's like 18 miles.

[01:55:22] [SPEAKER_09]: It's, it's a good one.

[01:55:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Really?

[01:55:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's an established route?

[01:55:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:55:26] [SPEAKER_05]: For, okay.

[01:55:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to have to check that out for sure.

[01:55:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, all right.

[01:55:30] [SPEAKER_05]: So then both of you are, you're involved in the trust.

[01:55:33] [SPEAKER_05]: You held volunteer.

[01:55:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you do trail maintenance and, or are you mostly just doing the, um, the, the, the race series right now?

[01:55:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:55:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, we have done some trail maintenance in conjunction with the race series.

[01:55:44] [SPEAKER_09]: So we just had the Fluvio 5k on August 3rd.

[01:55:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and that connected from Fluvio Brewing and Harrison down to the Crooked River Forest.

[01:55:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And in order to have that course, uh, we created, we basically converted a snow,

[01:55:59] [SPEAKER_09]: like a winter snowshoe trail into a year round trail.

[01:56:02] [SPEAKER_09]: So we were out there many, many hours weed whacking and clearing the trail.

[01:56:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and then we also cleared an old snow wheel trail to connect the preserve to the brewery.

[01:56:11] [SPEAKER_09]: So a lot of trail maintenance with that.

[01:56:13] [SPEAKER_09]: And hopefully that year round trail can stay now.

[01:56:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, but with others, I mean, Pleasant Mountain is so, so well used that the trails are pretty

[01:56:22] [SPEAKER_09]: well maintained there.

[01:56:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, they actually bring in professional trail crews for things like that.

[01:56:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah.

[01:56:27] [SPEAKER_05]: They like that ball peak, um, I mean, it's got nice stairways and it's got everything.

[01:56:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't been over on the ledges side lately.

[01:56:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I, I've been going mostly up bald, but, um, I know that both of those trails are really

[01:56:39] [SPEAKER_05]: well, well developed.

[01:56:40] [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, it's impressive.

[01:56:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Now though there's a, there's like a partnership with private landowners for that mountain.

[01:56:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you, do you, Scott, do you know anything about that?

[01:56:49] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so from what I understand, a Luneco land trust, um, purchased, uh, a lot of the land

[01:56:56] [SPEAKER_11]: on Pleasant Mountain aside from the ski resort, there is some private land that sort of borders

[01:57:02] [SPEAKER_11]: it.

[01:57:03] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, and that stuff is usually clearly marked, but in terms of all the trails, if you stay

[01:57:08] [SPEAKER_11]: on trail at Pleasant Mountain, you're just on Luneco land trust land, which they own

[01:57:12] [SPEAKER_11]: outright.

[01:57:13] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, okay.

[01:57:13] [SPEAKER_11]: So there's usually no issues there with private land, but.

[01:57:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[01:57:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And can you talk about the, uh, the two races that are coming up?

[01:57:21] [SPEAKER_05]: So you have one race that is coming up in September 7th and then there's another one

[01:57:27] [SPEAKER_05]: on October 5th.

[01:57:29] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, absolutely.

[01:57:30] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so the first race that we have coming up is the ball pate 10 K that's, as you said,

[01:57:37] [SPEAKER_11]: on September 7th for Saturday in September.

[01:57:39] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, so that one summits ball pate, uh, three times gives you a total elevation gain of 1800

[01:57:45] [SPEAKER_11]: feet.

[01:57:46] [SPEAKER_11]: I'd say even for a small race, it has a lot to offer.

[01:57:50] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, anything you can think of in a trail run, it's got technical single track.

[01:57:54] [SPEAKER_11]: It's got a steep climb.

[01:57:55] [SPEAKER_11]: If anyone knows pate trail, that's a really steep trail up to the summit there.

[01:58:00] [SPEAKER_11]: You got bombing downhills.

[01:58:02] [SPEAKER_11]: I assure you, you'll get covered in mud.

[01:58:04] [SPEAKER_11]: There'll be scenic vistas, uh, great views.

[01:58:08] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, of course the, the next race in the series, uh, which I really like to call our premier

[01:58:13] [SPEAKER_11]: race.

[01:58:14] [SPEAKER_11]: That's the pleasant mountain race first Saturday in October, October 5th.

[01:58:19] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, you will definitely be feeling the elevation gain in that one.

[01:58:24] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, you'll go up bald peak.

[01:58:26] [SPEAKER_11]: You won't completely summit.

[01:58:27] [SPEAKER_11]: You'll come down fire warden's trail, sort of circumnavigate around the bottom of it and

[01:58:32] [SPEAKER_11]: then make your way up Southwest Ridge, uh, which is my personal favorite trail up the mountain.

[01:58:37] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, then you will get to the summit, sort of go all the way across the ridge, go past

[01:58:44] [SPEAKER_11]: ball peak and, uh, come down Sue's way.

[01:58:49] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, and, uh, I'm not sure maybe, maybe you've done Sue's way, Mike, uh, but it gets pretty

[01:58:55] [SPEAKER_11]: rocky and technical out there, but it's a really good one.

[01:58:58] [SPEAKER_11]: I feel like a lot of people, uh, uh, don't, don't venture out that way, but it's one of

[01:59:02] [SPEAKER_11]: my favorites on the mountain as well.

[01:59:05] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[01:59:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And then you're going to have live music.

[01:59:06] [SPEAKER_05]: There'll be food and beer that's served as is the, is the, uh, the start is right by Shawnee.

[01:59:11] [SPEAKER_05]: The, the, the, I call it, I'm going to call it Shawnee peak.

[01:59:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I always do.

[01:59:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm never going to get that out of my head, but it's in the parking lot of the ski area.

[01:59:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Is that where you're starting?

[01:59:20] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, correct.

[01:59:21] [SPEAKER_11]: So it's, it's not at the main lodge.

[01:59:23] [SPEAKER_11]: It starts at the East ski lodge, which is just a little bit, uh, further down mountain

[01:59:28] [SPEAKER_11]: road.

[01:59:29] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, if you're coming from three Oh two.

[01:59:32] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, and, and yes, you are correct.

[01:59:34] [SPEAKER_11]: So we have a full on after party happening at the event.

[01:59:38] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so we'll have live music.

[01:59:40] [SPEAKER_11]: We'll have a food truck there.

[01:59:42] [SPEAKER_11]: We'll have a beer garden serving beer.

[01:59:44] [SPEAKER_11]: So, you know, hopefully it'll be a good time.

[01:59:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[01:59:47] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'll make sure that I, I've already put out the details on the show notes, but I'll

[01:59:51] [SPEAKER_05]: make sure that we, uh, we put them in the show notes and we'll send them out over our

[01:59:55] [SPEAKER_05]: social as well.

[01:59:56] [SPEAKER_05]: So people can sign up and are you both running it or are you going to be running around organizing

[02:00:00] [SPEAKER_11]: everything?

[02:00:01] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so we'll probably be running around like, uh, chickens with our heads cut off for most

[02:00:07] [SPEAKER_11]: of the race, just trying to make sure everything goes off, um, without a hitch.

[02:00:12] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.

[02:00:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and then Addy, do you have any big races planned besides these two, um, coming up?

[02:00:19] [SPEAKER_09]: I think for running for us, both of us are going to do the big Brad 50 miler, uh, in October

[02:00:25] [SPEAKER_09]: in Bradbury mountain state park in Freeport, Maine.

[02:00:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, other than that, we pretty much have just been exploring trails ourselves and having

[02:00:33] [SPEAKER_09]: fun out.

[02:00:35] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[02:00:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And early you had mentioned that you, you both did the Jigger Johnson last year.

[02:00:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Can you talk a little bit about that experience?

[02:00:43] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, yeah, definitely.

[02:00:44] [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh, I was actually, uh, I was a part of the inaugural hundred mile event last year,

[02:00:50] [SPEAKER_11]: um, which, uh, I don't know if you remember last year, the weather was, uh, pretty wet.

[02:00:56] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, it's like you would get to an aid station, change your shoes, swap out your socks within

[02:01:03] [SPEAKER_11]: being on the trail and five minutes, your feet were just like wet again.

[02:01:07] [SPEAKER_11]: So your feet were just wet the entire time.

[02:01:09] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, but it was, it was totally epic.

[02:01:12] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, I mean, it took me like 48 hours or so to complete the thing, but it was, it was an

[02:01:19] [SPEAKER_11]: absolutely legendary race.

[02:01:20] [SPEAKER_11]: One of the best times of my life.

[02:01:21] [SPEAKER_11]: Honestly, I would totally do it again.

[02:01:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.

[02:01:24] [SPEAKER_11]: And how, how did your feet hold up being wet all that time?

[02:01:27] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, they actually held up pretty well.

[02:01:30] [SPEAKER_11]: I'll have to say I did not lose a single toenail.

[02:01:33] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, shout out to, uh, Joseph Cloyte who, uh, helped me out with some foot care at an aid

[02:01:40] [SPEAKER_11]: station.

[02:01:41] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, which, uh, you know, shout out to one of our sponsors, squirrels nut butter.

[02:01:45] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, lather that on your feet before you put your sock back on and it sort of keeps the

[02:01:51] [SPEAKER_11]: water at bay and prevents you from blistering.

[02:01:53] [SPEAKER_11]: So that I think that was really sort of like key to keeping my feet in good condition.

[02:01:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.

[02:01:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's impressive.

[02:01:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And then Addie, did you, did you run the same distance?

[02:02:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, so I did the a hundred K.

[02:02:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, so I started a day after Scott and actually got to run into him on the course, which was

[02:02:09] [SPEAKER_09]: really cool.

[02:02:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, we both had glitter on our faces, so we were known as glitter guy and glitter girl.

[02:02:15] [SPEAKER_09]: What nice.

[02:02:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, yeah.

[02:02:17] [SPEAKER_09]: So it took me, I think, 27 hours.

[02:02:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, so I finished three hours after Scott and he actually like stood at the finish line

[02:02:23] [SPEAKER_09]: and waited for me to finish.

[02:02:24] [SPEAKER_09]: So kudos to Scott for that.

[02:02:26] [SPEAKER_05]: What a guy.

[02:02:27] [SPEAKER_05]: What a guy.

[02:02:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And then Addie, well, I have you.

[02:02:29] [SPEAKER_05]: So you're a real townie.

[02:02:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, you know, so we're in Brownfield.

[02:02:32] [SPEAKER_05]: My father-in-law was in Brownfield.

[02:02:34] [SPEAKER_05]: So I feel like Brownfield's like looked down upon for these other towns, but I don't know.

[02:02:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know for certain, but, um, Naples, Harrison, Bridgeton, like I grew up, matter

[02:02:43] [SPEAKER_05]: of fact, I grew up going along Lake.

[02:02:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I've been going along Lake since I was 14 with my friends.

[02:02:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but this whole area here.

[02:02:50] [SPEAKER_05]: So I need to know from you, what are some hidden gems?

[02:02:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Like if there's other places to eat, places to drink, where, where do you tell the, um,

[02:02:59] [SPEAKER_05]: the people that don't know that area that well, if they want to spend a day in Bridgeton

[02:03:03] [SPEAKER_05]: or Naples or Harrison, like where are you sending them?

[02:03:06] [SPEAKER_09]: I think to start, I mean, I work in Norway, which is two towns north of Harrison.

[02:03:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And I work at 290 main street, which is a pub right on main street there.

[02:03:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And that's a great spot.

[02:03:16] [SPEAKER_09]: That's a great spot.

[02:03:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Not too far north.

[02:03:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, if you go somewhere like Sunday river, if you go to Evans notch or Grafton notch, it's

[02:03:24] [SPEAKER_09]: not too far out of the way.

[02:03:25] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's a, a nice spot, uh, in Norway, I think around town.

[02:03:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I think standard gastropub in Bridgeton is really good.

[02:03:35] [SPEAKER_09]: I think Queen's head is new.

[02:03:38] [SPEAKER_09]: I haven't been there yet.

[02:03:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, Scott, you work at, he works at fluvio brewing in Harrison.

[02:03:43] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's always a good spot.

[02:03:47] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, yeah, I mean, uh, I also should check those out.

[02:03:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I've never been to those.

[02:03:54] [SPEAKER_11]: I should also plug, uh, that, uh, the pub up at pleasant mountain blizzards is also

[02:04:00] [SPEAKER_11]: now open during the summer.

[02:04:01] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, so that's also a good place to get some food, especially if you're just hiking right

[02:04:04] [SPEAKER_11]: down the road on a mountain road.

[02:04:06] [SPEAKER_11]: They're either at ledges or ball peak.

[02:04:08] [SPEAKER_11]: You can just swing right, right by blizzards pub and grab something.

[02:04:11] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, but really you can't go wrong with anything off of main street in a Bridgeton.

[02:04:15] [SPEAKER_11]: I think pretty much all those restaurants are pretty solid if you're, if you're looking

[02:04:18] [SPEAKER_11]: for some good, good eats.

[02:04:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[02:04:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:04:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Cause we, we end up going down to Naples to the causeway a lot and, um, going down by

[02:04:27] [SPEAKER_05]: that area there, but I gotta, I gotta check out Bridgeton in a little bit more detail

[02:04:30] [SPEAKER_05]: in the food scene there.

[02:04:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Excellent.

[02:04:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And then as far as hiking goes in the white mountains, are you both pursuing anything

[02:04:39] [SPEAKER_05]: interesting?

[02:04:40] [SPEAKER_05]: 4,000 footers 52 with a view terrifying 25.

[02:04:43] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so I would say I am vaguely working on my T25 right now.

[02:04:50] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, kind of working on my 67, uh, and my new England ultra eight.

[02:04:56] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, I believe I've got two left on that to kind of crest and devil's path.

[02:05:02] [SPEAKER_11]: No three.

[02:05:02] [SPEAKER_11]: Cause I have the great range traverse as well left on there, but I'm sort of like a, like

[02:05:07] [SPEAKER_11]: a loose list goer, um, sort of right now we've just been focusing on sort of exploring

[02:05:15] [SPEAKER_11]: some of the less traveled trails in the whites.

[02:05:17] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, like, I don't know if you've ever been out there, Mike, maybe, maybe you could expand

[02:05:20] [SPEAKER_11]: on this as well.

[02:05:21] [SPEAKER_11]: If you've ever done the dry river trail there.

[02:05:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't.

[02:05:26] [SPEAKER_05]: That is, um, that is one that Stomp has talked about quite a bit cause he, he was over there

[02:05:32] [SPEAKER_05]: because of a rescue, but that's an area that I got to get over to.

[02:05:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but he was saying that like really hard to follow a lot of washouts, um, and just like

[02:05:41] [SPEAKER_05]: a black hole when it comes to just the staying on the trail there.

[02:05:45] [SPEAKER_05]: So I got to get over there too.

[02:05:47] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, exactly.

[02:05:48] [SPEAKER_11]: It's, it really is a great trail, but we were, we were kind of expecting to do a little

[02:05:53] [SPEAKER_11]: bit more trail running.

[02:05:53] [SPEAKER_11]: We had never been out there before and, uh, we ended up running into multiple spots where

[02:05:58] [SPEAKER_11]: the trail kind of just like disappears off the embankment or like a landslide has just

[02:06:03] [SPEAKER_11]: kind of come through and, uh, and wash the trail out.

[02:06:06] [SPEAKER_11]: But I mean, it was completely epic.

[02:06:08] [SPEAKER_11]: Like we went up Crawford path all the way up the Southern Prezies, went down to Lake of

[02:06:12] [SPEAKER_11]: the clouds hut and then, uh, went down Monroe and follow dry river, uh, all the way back out

[02:06:18] [SPEAKER_11]: to the trail head.

[02:06:19] [SPEAKER_11]: But it was, it was a pretty epic day.

[02:06:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:06:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:06:22] [SPEAKER_05]: See, it's nice to be young.

[02:06:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm getting old.

[02:06:24] [SPEAKER_05]: So the listeners can't tell, but you, you two are both young.

[02:06:27] [SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's, you got young legs and you can probably buy, I try to avoid the elevation

[02:06:31] [SPEAKER_05]: now.

[02:06:32] [SPEAKER_05]: So like I, for trail running, like I think about like, I like going in the Hancocks.

[02:06:35] [SPEAKER_05]: That's a nice run for me because it's just, you can bust out three, three, four miles.

[02:06:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And then you do have to do that one up, but for the most part, it's, it's pretty gradual.

[02:06:44] [SPEAKER_05]: So I like that whole area there.

[02:06:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, Lincoln Woods is always good for me.

[02:06:47] [SPEAKER_05]: It's nice and flat.

[02:06:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but I haven't been doing as much trail running lately.

[02:06:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I've been sticking more to the roads, but I am going to, I think I'm thinking about doing

[02:06:56] [SPEAKER_05]: the, the pleasant mountain race.

[02:06:57] [SPEAKER_05]: So I'll let you know if I sign up.

[02:07:00] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, absolutely.

[02:07:01] [SPEAKER_11]: We'd love to have you at the, at the race, Mike.

[02:07:04] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, yeah, also, also, I, I, you know, I don't know if I should plug this here, but,

[02:07:10] [SPEAKER_11]: uh, we also want to offer the listeners or to anyone that listens to the podcast, a nice

[02:07:14] [SPEAKER_11]: little $5 discount.

[02:07:15] [SPEAKER_11]: So if you use code all lowercase slasher S L A S R 24, um, yeah, I mean, feel free to

[02:07:22] [SPEAKER_11]: use that code.

[02:07:22] [SPEAKER_11]: You can get $5 off the pleasant mountain race.

[02:07:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Awesome.

[02:07:25] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[02:07:26] [SPEAKER_05]: We'll include that in the, the show notes and, um, you know, we're looking forward to

[02:07:31] [SPEAKER_05]: it.

[02:07:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you reached out and I immediately was like, yeah, this is right in my wheelhouse.

[02:07:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I'm, I'm trying to convince my wife.

[02:07:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, let's move up to this area here, but we'll see someday.

[02:07:40] [SPEAKER_05]: But I, I love Western Maine.

[02:07:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It's where I spent most of my, you know, time growing up and I've spent the last 25 years

[02:07:46] [SPEAKER_05]: in Brownfield on, on the weekend.

[02:07:48] [SPEAKER_05]: So anything I can do to get the message out and, and, you know, this sounds like a great,

[02:07:52] [SPEAKER_05]: um, opportunity to do some cool races and support, um, the, the Loon Echo Land Trust.

[02:07:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you very much.

[02:07:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Have a great night.

[02:08:03] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[02:08:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Stop.

[02:08:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So.

[02:08:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Excellent.

[02:08:05] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[02:08:05] [SPEAKER_05]: You're going to run those races?

[02:08:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I honestly have not heard the segment yet.

[02:08:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not, I cannot tell a lie.

[02:08:11] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to hear it when I edit it.

[02:08:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.

[02:08:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll have to get back to you on it.

[02:08:15] [SPEAKER_04]: See, I was going to, I was ready to go right into the line and be like, so stop, do

[02:08:19] [SPEAKER_05]: you think you're going to run the race?

[02:08:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And you were supposed to play along like you had heard it.

[02:08:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I just recorded it last night.

[02:08:23] [SPEAKER_05]: So we're a little under the gun.

[02:08:25] [SPEAKER_05]: So, well, tell me about it.

[02:08:27] [SPEAKER_05]: How was it?

[02:08:28] [SPEAKER_05]: It was, it was great.

[02:08:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, the, um, you know, there's a lot of, I have a lot in common with them just because

[02:08:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I, I'm, I love that area.

[02:08:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, Pleasant Mountain is a, is a, is like my home hiking area.

[02:08:42] [SPEAKER_05]: So I think that they're really passionate about it.

[02:08:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm going to try to do one of these races for sure.

[02:08:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And if I can't do the race, maybe I'll try to just throw in for volunteer, but that's

[02:08:52] [SPEAKER_05]: they did say they need volunteers.

[02:08:54] [SPEAKER_05]: So I think if anyone's around, um, during those races, you know, there's one coming

[02:08:58] [SPEAKER_05]: up on September 7th and then another on October 5th and Pleasant Mountain, uh, definitely reach

[02:09:04] [SPEAKER_05]: out to them and I'll include all the details in the show notes and on our social.

[02:09:13] [SPEAKER_12]: Slasher's hiking topic of the week.

[02:09:20] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, Stomp.

[02:09:21] [SPEAKER_05]: So you pulled together, I, I, I kidded a little bit about me doing all the work, but you did

[02:09:25] [SPEAKER_05]: pull together a cool little segment here about lost person strategy.

[02:09:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like we've talked about this before.

[02:09:31] [SPEAKER_05]: We talked a little bit about like that missing case of the young man and on Mount Katahdin,

[02:09:36] [SPEAKER_05]: like years and years ago in the 1930s, we talked about like a book that, that had covered some

[02:09:41] [SPEAKER_05]: strategies, but you've got, you've got something you wanted to do a, like a deep dive on.

[02:09:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[02:09:46] [SPEAKER_04]: So I have the book.

[02:09:47] [SPEAKER_04]: This is, uh, from Jack Daly who sent it to me.

[02:09:50] [SPEAKER_04]: So he's been on the show before, Jack Daly, uh, who is active with civil air patrol and

[02:09:55] [SPEAKER_04]: it's the book Lost Person Behavior, a search and rescue guide on where to look for land,

[02:09:59] [SPEAKER_04]: air and water.

[02:10:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I've been planning on doing, uh, some segments on this for quite some time, but it's sort of,

[02:10:05] [SPEAKER_04]: sort of an overwhelming book.

[02:10:06] [SPEAKER_04]: It's, um, it's, it's heavy on strategy, which I don't think the listeners would get much out

[02:10:12] [SPEAKER_04]: of at the moment.

[02:10:12] [SPEAKER_04]: But as I was looking through it, I did find a chapter, which I think will be great to just

[02:10:17] [SPEAKER_04]: cover briefly.

[02:10:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's called Lost Person Strategy.

[02:10:20] [SPEAKER_04]: So this basically covers what do people typically do, whether they work or they don't work when

[02:10:27] [SPEAKER_04]: they're lost on trail.

[02:10:29] [SPEAKER_04]: So there are 10 things we'll talk about briefly here and, uh, just chime in Mike, uh, because

[02:10:34] [SPEAKER_04]: I, I'm sure you've experienced some of these.

[02:10:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I certainly have.

[02:10:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And then at the end, we'll talk about what the best thing to do is according to this.

[02:10:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, a lot of this data was put together by a bunch of cases out of Nova Scotia, uh, generally

[02:10:48] [SPEAKER_04]: involving 120 deer hunters.

[02:10:50] [SPEAKER_04]: So they have a whole bunch of data, um, to work with.

[02:10:55] [SPEAKER_04]: So the first situation, if, if you're lost and you, you just lost your way on trail, the

[02:11:00] [SPEAKER_04]: first strategy that may be, uh, employed here is called random traveling.

[02:11:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And this is when you're totally confused and usually experiencing high emotional arousal.

[02:11:12] [SPEAKER_04]: The lost person moves around randomly following the path of least resistance, which with no

[02:11:18] [SPEAKER_04]: apparent purpose other than to find something or someplace that looks familiar.

[02:11:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Self familiar?

[02:11:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah.

[02:11:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:11:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:11:25] [SPEAKER_04]: So that's your random traveling.

[02:11:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Route traveling is the strategy where a lost person decides to travel on some trail, path

[02:11:33] [SPEAKER_04]: or drainage or other travel aid.

[02:11:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, but the route's unknown to the person and they're uncertain as to where it's going to

[02:11:40] [SPEAKER_04]: take them.

[02:11:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, but they hope eventually that it'll, it'll come out to something familiar.

[02:11:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[02:11:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

[02:11:47] [SPEAKER_04]: That's route traveling.

[02:11:49] [SPEAKER_04]: The third is called direction traveling.

[02:11:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, route sampling.

[02:12:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, route sampling would be when, uh, you have a traveler that's, uh, using an intersection

[02:12:23] [SPEAKER_04]: of trails, um, and traveling some distance down each of those trails to find something

[02:12:29] [SPEAKER_04]: familiar.

[02:12:30] [SPEAKER_04]: That's pretty standard, right?

[02:12:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[02:12:32] [SPEAKER_04]: After sampling a particular route without success, they come back and try the other one until

[02:12:36] [SPEAKER_04]: something works out.

[02:12:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, we move on to direction sampling, which is similar to route sampling, except that the

[02:12:44] [SPEAKER_04]: lost person doesn't have the advantage provided by the intersection.

[02:12:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Rather, the subject selects some identifiable landmark as a base, such as a large tree outcropping,

[02:12:53] [SPEAKER_04]: and from there they go in selected directions, always keeping the base in view, uh, which

[02:12:59] [SPEAKER_04]: is interesting.

[02:13:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, view enhancing, I think we've heard of quite a bit in the White Mountains.

[02:13:04] [SPEAKER_04]: This may be where, uh, actually, this, it's more familiar to us as, uh, the podcast for

[02:13:11] [SPEAKER_04]: situations where somebody's been injured and their partner goes up to the ridgeline to get

[02:13:16] [SPEAKER_04]: signal.

[02:13:17] [SPEAKER_04]: But in this case, if you're lost, you're going up to a higher elevation to get a view of familiar

[02:13:23] [SPEAKER_04]: landmarks or topography to set you in the right direction again.

[02:13:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So that's view enhancing.

[02:13:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.

[02:13:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, backtracking, that, I mean, that generally tends to work.

[02:13:32] [SPEAKER_04]: So this is when somebody gets turned around, the person reverses track and attempts to

[02:13:36] [SPEAKER_04]: follow the exact route back out of the woods.

[02:13:38] [SPEAKER_04]: It can be effective.

[02:13:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, it does take some skill and patience.

[02:13:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Unfortunately, lost people seem reluctant to reverse their direction of travel without

[02:13:46] [SPEAKER_04]: good reason, statistically.

[02:13:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, just a couple more here.

[02:13:51] [SPEAKER_04]: So we have folk wisdom.

[02:13:53] [SPEAKER_04]: This would be, you know, just all, all water leads to civilization.

[02:13:57] [SPEAKER_04]: That may not always be the case.

[02:13:59] [SPEAKER_04]: So folk wisdom is a strategy that's often employed.

[02:14:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:14:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I always think about that.

[02:14:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, okay, let's, let's fall the drainage, but you ended up falling the drainage that

[02:14:07] [SPEAKER_05]: goes down the North side of the mountain and, and civil is it.

[02:14:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Now you're in the middle of Northern Maine.

[02:14:12] [SPEAKER_05]: That's what happened to the kid that got, or the young, the issue in Baxter back in the

[02:14:18] [SPEAKER_05]: 1940s or 30s when that person got lost.

[02:14:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Or you may end up in like a bug infested swamp.

[02:14:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you just don't know a hundred percent of the time.

[02:14:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, the recommended course of action according to this book is staying put.

[02:14:31] [SPEAKER_04]: So most, uh, safety programs stress the importance of staying where you are.

[02:14:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, it's somewhat passive strategy for reorientation.

[02:14:40] [SPEAKER_04]: As long as the lost person can reasonably expect that a search is being organized for them, that's

[02:14:45] [SPEAKER_04]: probably the best course of action statistically according to this data.

[02:14:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, is typically the case.

[02:14:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:14:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And then there's doing nothing, which is a subcategory of staying put, but doing nothing

[02:14:58] [SPEAKER_04]: is generally applied to people with say dementia that just stop walking and just sit down.

[02:15:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, so it's very interesting.

[02:15:06] [SPEAKER_04]: So does, I mean, honestly, to summarize it, there is a chart here that I can't really explain

[02:15:10] [SPEAKER_04]: too well, but it goes left to right from what works to what doesn't work.

[02:15:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And, um, you know, you have direction sampling, staying put, um, root sampling, things of that

[02:15:22] [SPEAKER_04]: nature, finding shelter as things that work.

[02:15:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And what definitely does not work would be, uh, actually surprisingly view enhancing, doing

[02:15:31] [SPEAKER_04]: nothing, cross country, wandering, and discarding your gear.

[02:15:36] [SPEAKER_04]: That's interesting.

[02:15:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:15:37] [SPEAKER_05]: We do see a fair amount of that discarding of gear as well.

[02:15:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, you know, every once in a while you'll hear a story about, oh, I stumbled upon this

[02:15:44] [SPEAKER_05]: backpacker or other random gear.

[02:15:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I've actually stumbled upon multiple backpacks.

[02:15:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:15:51] [SPEAKER_04]: It's very interesting.

[02:15:51] [SPEAKER_04]: But that was the most, uh, dangerous with the most, the highest percentage of dead on

[02:15:57] [SPEAKER_04]: arrival, um, you know, body recoveries, people that got lost and discarded their gear.

[02:16:03] [SPEAKER_04]: That is an absolute no, no.

[02:16:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:16:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I think too, a couple of things that I think of here that aren't on this particular list

[02:16:09] [SPEAKER_05]: and it could, I don't know when that book was written, but the advice you want to think

[02:16:13] [SPEAKER_05]: about as well is marking your, and I know you don't want to rely on cell phones and whatnot,

[02:16:18] [SPEAKER_05]: but you do want to mark your, um, your, your cell connectivity.

[02:16:23] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[02:16:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Where did I have cell connection?

[02:16:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Where did I lose it?

[02:16:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And that can be important because you may be faced with making the decision on whether

[02:16:31] [SPEAKER_05]: or not, like, okay, do I go up towards the summit so that I can get connectivity to call

[02:16:36] [SPEAKER_05]: for help?

[02:16:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Or do I have to go back towards the trailhead to make that?

[02:16:40] [SPEAKER_05]: As a matter of fact, we were faced with that issue when I had that hypothermia issue on

[02:16:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Mount Kerrigan.

[02:16:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I sort of, I was like, well, I know about a mile up the trail and signal Ridge will get

[02:16:49] [SPEAKER_05]: a signal.

[02:16:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Is that better than going all the way out to, uh, to Sawyer River?

[02:16:54] [SPEAKER_05]: So I do think marking your connectivity when you can, I know we like to stay off devices

[02:16:59] [SPEAKER_05]: when we're in the, in the wilderness, but it is worth it to mark your connectivity, um,

[02:17:04] [SPEAKER_05]: just so that you, you can make a quick decision if you're, if you run into a situation where

[02:17:09] [SPEAKER_05]: you need help.

[02:17:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a great point.

[02:17:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:17:13] [SPEAKER_04]: So there you go.

[02:17:14] [SPEAKER_04]: So I will do some more digging into this book because it's fascinating.

[02:17:17] [SPEAKER_04]: There, there are other chapters such as this one here, Lost Person Myths and Legends.

[02:17:21] [SPEAKER_04]: For instance, do people that are right-handed veer to the right or to the left if they're

[02:17:27] [SPEAKER_04]: left-handed?

[02:17:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's, there's a lot of neat stuff in this book and we'll definitely touch upon it again

[02:17:31] [SPEAKER_04]: in the future.

[02:17:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:17:32] [SPEAKER_05]: By the way, Stomp, at being a left-handed person, I just want to give a shout out to my fellow

[02:17:36] [SPEAKER_05]: lefties because Tuesday was left-handed, International Left-Handed Day.

[02:17:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't know you were a lefty.

[02:17:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a lefty too.

[02:17:43] [SPEAKER_05]: You are?

[02:17:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.

[02:17:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[02:17:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Look at that, Stomp.

[02:17:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Good to God.

[02:17:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't know that.

[02:17:47] [SPEAKER_04]: That's weird.

[02:17:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:17:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome.

[02:17:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it would have been like 5% of the population, 10% of the population or something.

[02:17:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:17:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:17:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:17:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a little bit ambidextrous, but primarily left.

[02:17:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Cheers to you, my lefty friend.

[02:17:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Cheers.

[02:18:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Never forget.

[02:18:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Two weirdos on the podcast.

[02:18:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.

[02:18:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[02:18:07] [SPEAKER_05]: So Stomp, we talked about earlier in the show that you're wearing a sweatshirt, so you're

[02:18:13] [SPEAKER_05]: not hot, but generally this time of the year, you would be kind of sweaty, right?

[02:18:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[02:18:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm always sweaty, but thank God there's a solution.

[02:18:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, wow.

[02:18:24] [SPEAKER_04]: What a segue.

[02:18:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Isn't it nice?

[02:18:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[02:18:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So does your backpack not provide enough ventilation?

[02:18:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Does your back sweat too much when backpacking?

[02:18:33] [SPEAKER_04]: As you know, sweat can be extremely uncomfortable on the trails.

[02:18:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Plus, sweat is a serious risk factor in both hot and cold climates.

[02:18:40] [SPEAKER_04]: As your clothes get wet, your core temperature can dramatically fluctuate, resulting in hypothermia,

[02:18:46] [SPEAKER_04]: heat exhaustion, and dehydration.

[02:18:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's not forget just very uncomfortable.

[02:18:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Today's your lucky day because we have good news for you here at Slasher.

[02:18:54] [SPEAKER_04]: It is a piece of gear that solves the sweat and ventilation problem, making your backpack

[02:18:59] [SPEAKER_04]: more comfortable.

[02:19:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Volkluse Gear's ultralight backpack ventilation frame.

[02:19:03] [SPEAKER_04]: It weighs less than 3 ounces, which is equivalent to a pair of socks, and it's an accessory that

[02:19:14] [SPEAKER_04]: attaches to your pack size 15 liters to 45 liters.

[02:19:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Whether hiking in hot or cold temps, the ultralight backpack ventilation frame from Volkluse Gear

[02:19:23] [SPEAKER_04]: is a real game changer regarding airflow and ventilation.

[02:19:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So visit them at volklusegear.com to order an ultralight ventilation frame today,

[02:19:32] [SPEAKER_04]: and use promo code SLASER, S-L-A-S-R, to enjoy a $5 discount, and let them know that Mike and

[02:19:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Stopp sent you.

[02:20:25] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, Stopp now is the part of the show where we do recent search and risk.

[02:20:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like this is going to be a world record long show for us tonight, but that's okay.

[02:20:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's all good.

[02:20:35] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, it's getting busy again.

[02:20:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we have six to go through here.

[02:20:40] [SPEAKER_05]: So I usually don't tally up all the data in the search and rescues until the end of the

[02:20:45] [SPEAKER_05]: year, but maybe I'll do it a little early this year to see how we're trending.

[02:20:48] [SPEAKER_05]: But this first one brings us to Middle Moat Mountain, and this one is a beast.

[02:20:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I was reading this one earlier.

[02:20:53] [SPEAKER_05]: So Thursday, August 1st at 11 a.m., fishing games notified of a hiker that was injured

[02:21:00] [SPEAKER_05]: on the Moat Mountain Trail in Middle Moat Mountain.

[02:21:03] [SPEAKER_05]: So they're in the middle of, they're in between north and south, which is, it doesn't look

[02:21:08] [SPEAKER_05]: like it's that big of a deal to go from south moat to north moat, but I think it's probably

[02:21:12] [SPEAKER_05]: about a mile and a half, two miles to get in between.

[02:21:16] [SPEAKER_05]: So 44-year-old hiker from Kennebunk, Maine, she was hiking with a friend, slipped and injured

[02:21:22] [SPEAKER_05]: her ankle on wet rock, and she was unable to bear weight on the injured foot.

[02:21:27] [SPEAKER_05]: She made a little bit of progress by crawling along the trail towards the direction of rescuers.

[02:21:32] [SPEAKER_05]: So kudos to her.

[02:21:34] [SPEAKER_05]: But the fishing game got the call.

[02:21:37] [SPEAKER_05]: So conservation officers, along with Bartlett Jackson Ambulance and Lakes Region Search

[02:21:41] [SPEAKER_05]: and Rescue, Forest Service and Mountain Rescue Service responded.

[02:21:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Rescues were able to use a gated forest service road to gain a more direct route.

[02:21:51] [SPEAKER_05]: So I feel like, I feel like on the south moat trail, like there's some service roads or fire

[02:22:01] [SPEAKER_05]: roads or something like that.

[02:22:02] [SPEAKER_05]: So maybe they were able to get in from that direction, but they also, I don't really know.

[02:22:08] [SPEAKER_05]: There's definitely some fire roads around that area.

[02:22:10] [SPEAKER_05]: So they were able to get in, but unfortunately the hiker was like three miles away from the

[02:22:16] [SPEAKER_05]: access point.

[02:22:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And the way that they brought her out, rescuers had to create a harness system to assist her

[02:22:22] [SPEAKER_05]: through some steep, rocky terrain.

[02:22:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And she was able to negotiate it with assistance from Mountain Rescue.

[02:22:28] [SPEAKER_05]: They had to rig up lines along the steeper sections of rock.

[02:22:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And ultimately they did get her in a litter to be lowered down and she was carried the remaining

[02:22:37] [SPEAKER_05]: distance out to an ambulance.

[02:22:39] [SPEAKER_05]: So she got to the ambulance at like 7.30.

[02:22:42] [SPEAKER_05]: So 11 a.m. the call came in and she was at 7.30.

[02:22:46] [SPEAKER_05]: She made it to the ambulance.

[02:22:47] [SPEAKER_05]: So this is a long day for everybody.

[02:22:50] [SPEAKER_05]: 7.30 p.m.

[02:22:51] [SPEAKER_05]: 7.30 p.m.

[02:22:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:22:53] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's like eight and a half hours because she was way, way away from like, that's just

[02:22:58] [SPEAKER_05]: far away as you can get on the moats.

[02:23:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[02:23:01] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I've been not too familiar.

[02:23:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:23:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And you haven't, you haven't hiked over there?

[02:23:06] [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, man.

[02:23:07] [SPEAKER_04]: We got to get you up there.

[02:23:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I know.

[02:23:08] [SPEAKER_04]: They look great.

[02:23:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, we have to get you up there.

[02:23:10] [SPEAKER_05]: You'll love it.

[02:23:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:23:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:23:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:23:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I can, I can agree with that one.

[02:23:15] [SPEAKER_04]: What I've seen.

[02:23:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.

[02:23:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:23:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And then this next one is falling water.

[02:23:21] [SPEAKER_05]: So again, this is a slip and fall, serious injury.

[02:23:26] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the spot.

[02:23:27] [SPEAKER_05]: This is the spot.

[02:23:29] [SPEAKER_05]: 150 foot section of trails accounts for many of the injuries that occur on falling waters.

[02:23:34] [SPEAKER_05]: So at four o'clock Friday, August 2nd, conservation officers found out there was an injured hiker.

[02:23:39] [SPEAKER_05]: They slipped on the wet, slippery ledge, falling 10 feet and suffering serious injuries.

[02:23:44] [SPEAKER_05]: So Pemi Valley search and rescue conservation officers heading up there and good Samaritans had rendered aid until the first rescue was arrived.

[02:23:54] [SPEAKER_05]: So four o'clock, the call came in.

[02:23:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Rescues get there at 540.

[02:23:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Injured hiker was secured into a rescue litter with the carryout commencing at 6 p.m.

[02:24:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Rescue team covered the one mile trail in a little over an hour and arrived at the trailhead at 710 p.m.

[02:24:12] [SPEAKER_05]: So 42-year-old hiker from Quebec.

[02:24:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And he was thankful for the passing hikers who called for help and rendered aid.

[02:24:22] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, that's it.

[02:24:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And then they say at the bottom here, a large portion of falling waters trail parallels dry brook.

[02:24:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Dry brook is anything but dry with much of the trail running along the edge of dry brook and several water crossings that are often slippery.

[02:24:35] [SPEAKER_05]: So proper footwear.

[02:24:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Have we ever really defined that one spot?

[02:24:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Because if this podcast can do anything, it's probably to really pinpoint that one spot.

[02:24:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm assuming it's like above Cloudland Falls, right?

[02:24:51] [SPEAKER_04]: It is.

[02:24:54] [SPEAKER_04]: There's two final crossings.

[02:24:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Above Cloudland, you cross over to the right.

[02:24:58] [SPEAKER_04]: If you're ascending falling waters, you're crossing over the water to the right.

[02:25:05] [SPEAKER_04]: You climb up this section, which is the 10-foot drop that this person likely slipped off of.

[02:25:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And then from there, you cross the final crossing to the left back on trail.

[02:25:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's the top of this whole stretch.

[02:25:19] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's that one section, particularly if you're descending just below what would be the top water crossing.

[02:25:27] [SPEAKER_04]: That's where people are slipping.

[02:25:29] [SPEAKER_04]: They're gaining velocity on this green slippery moss and flying off the rock at speed and then falling 10 to 15 feet and crushing their spine, their head.

[02:25:41] [SPEAKER_04]: It is the worst area and you have to be aware of it because if you're not, you could end up like any of these people very, very easily.

[02:25:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:25:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, when you look at the terrain too, to me, and I don't know, I haven't looked at the plans at this point,

[02:26:01] [SPEAKER_05]: but it seems to me at like 1.9 miles, 2,400 feet, oh no, actually at the 2,400 foot mark,

[02:26:10] [SPEAKER_05]: it seems like you could easily just break away and just start doing switchbacks and then reconnect up above Cloudland Falls,

[02:26:18] [SPEAKER_05]: which is what I suspect that they're going to be able to do there.

[02:26:21] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, it's just, it never ends, but it'll be interesting when they reroute it,

[02:26:27] [SPEAKER_05]: what the impact is on search and rescue numbers because we're assuming they'll go down.

[02:26:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I hope so.

[02:26:33] [SPEAKER_05]: It's such a sketchy area.

[02:26:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[02:26:36] [SPEAKER_05]: So good stuff.

[02:26:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Next up was Saturday, August 5th, I believe.

[02:26:42] [SPEAKER_05]: 11.15, Fishing Game was notified of an injured hiker on the Mount Eisenhower Loop Trail,

[02:26:48] [SPEAKER_05]: about three miles from the Edmunds Path trailhead parking lot.

[02:26:53] [SPEAKER_05]: So I think the Mount Eisenhower Loop Trail is essentially like the part of the trail that connects to Edmunds Path.

[02:27:00] [SPEAKER_05]: And as you're going up to the summit.

[02:27:02] [SPEAKER_05]: So again, you're pretty far in.

[02:27:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So officials say a 57-year-old hiker from Weston, Florida was descending from Mount Eisenhower when he slipped on rocks and suffered a lower leg injury.

[02:27:14] [SPEAKER_05]: The party attempted to treat the injury, but the hiker could not bear any weight.

[02:27:20] [SPEAKER_05]: So they called 911, Androscoggin Valley Search and Rescue, and Pemisar responded to the call.

[02:27:27] [SPEAKER_05]: The rescuers went up Edmunds Path, placed Silver, oh, they're going to go all the way down Edmunds Path in a litter.

[02:27:35] [SPEAKER_05]: They placed the hiker in a rescue litter and carried him down the trail, arriving at 7.25.

[02:27:41] [SPEAKER_05]: So again, the call came in at 11.15, and he didn't get back to the trailhead until 7.25.

[02:27:47] [SPEAKER_05]: That is another long day.

[02:27:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sure is.

[02:27:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Brutal.

[02:27:53] [SPEAKER_04]: The good news about that is Edmunds is fairly gentle after about 3,000 feet.

[02:27:59] [SPEAKER_04]: You can put the wheel on the litter.

[02:28:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but it's not gentle.

[02:28:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Bounce them down.

[02:28:02] [SPEAKER_05]: That other 1,500 feet in between is not easy.

[02:28:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, no question about it.

[02:28:08] [SPEAKER_04]: It's brutal.

[02:28:09] [SPEAKER_05]: You've got steepness, you've got water crossing, so good luck.

[02:28:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:28:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[02:28:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, all's well that ends well.

[02:28:16] [SPEAKER_05]: That's another long one.

[02:28:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And then I'll save this one for the end here.

[02:28:23] [SPEAKER_05]: So Sunday, August 11, 2024, conservation officers were notified by the AMC Carter Notch Hut crew of an injured hiker.

[02:28:37] [SPEAKER_05]: So the hiker, 39-year-old hiker from Nottingham, New Hampshire, had slipped while crossing a small brook.

[02:28:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And because of the slip and fall, the hiker sustained lower leg injury.

[02:28:50] [SPEAKER_05]: At the time, she was hiking the Wildcat Ridge Trail in the vicinity of Carter Notch.

[02:28:55] [SPEAKER_05]: So probably coming down.

[02:28:56] [SPEAKER_05]: It's pretty steep there.

[02:28:58] [SPEAKER_05]: So with assistance of her hiking companions and the AMC staff, they were able to get to the Carter Notch Hut.

[02:29:03] [SPEAKER_05]: They gave first aid, and she was able to spend the night at the hut.

[02:29:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I was hoping in the morning that she'd be able to bear weight on it, but that wasn't going to happen.

[02:29:11] [SPEAKER_05]: So AMC crew called at 8.30, 10 a.m., five conservation officers and 24 volunteers from the AMC.

[02:29:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And Andrew Struggan Valley's search and rescue team responded.

[02:29:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And they got to the hiker around 11.45 and got her out around 4 p.m.

[02:29:34] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's a long two-day hike, or long two days to be out on the trail.

[02:29:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And she was able to get transported from the scene by hiking companions to get medical attention.

[02:29:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And she was an experienced hiker, well-prepared, proper gear and equipment.

[02:29:49] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[02:29:55] [SPEAKER_05]: This next one, Stomp, is Mount Monadnock.

[02:29:57] [SPEAKER_05]: This was a trail bike crash on August 13th.

[02:30:01] [SPEAKER_05]: This isn't even a hiking...

[02:30:02] [SPEAKER_05]: What are you doing here, Stomp?

[02:30:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, why are they on trails?

[02:30:07] [SPEAKER_05]: That's true.

[02:30:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, wait, no.

[02:30:10] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a hiker, too, here.

[02:30:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh.

[02:30:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I remember this one.

[02:30:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's a combined story.

[02:30:17] [SPEAKER_04]: So the first part is the hike.

[02:30:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, got it, got it, got it.

[02:30:20] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[02:30:21] [SPEAKER_05]: So basically, this first one's August 13th at 4.30 p.m.

[02:30:26] [SPEAKER_05]: There was a hiker that was identified as a minor.

[02:30:28] [SPEAKER_05]: They had an eight-foot fall landing on their head, and they had other serious injuries.

[02:30:32] [SPEAKER_05]: So the Monadnock Park Rangers responded to the White Cross Trail and were able to stabilize the victim.

[02:30:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Serious injuries incurred from the fall.

[02:30:42] [SPEAKER_05]: So a whole team of Good Samaritans and conservation officers, Upper Valley Wilderness Response Team, were able to carry the victim to an ambulance.

[02:30:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And 4.30, the call came in.

[02:30:54] [SPEAKER_05]: They got him to the ambulance at 8, and the victim was transported to UMass Memorial Medical Center in Worcester.

[02:31:00] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's serious.

[02:31:01] [SPEAKER_05]: The next article is about some kid that wiped out on a bike, and we're not going to cover that.

[02:31:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:31:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:31:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I just want to circle back to that, because when I was on Welch Dickey the other day, I did see three mountain bikers hiking up with their bikes on their shoulders.

[02:31:20] [SPEAKER_04]: They were planning on coming down the Dickey Trail.

[02:31:23] [SPEAKER_04]: So what is the current regulation for that?

[02:31:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[02:31:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Remember, we saw them coming down, too, when we did that hike with my friend Jay.

[02:31:32] [SPEAKER_05]: They were ripping down the ledges.

[02:31:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[02:31:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I saw somebody coming down South Baldface as well.

[02:31:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what the rules are.

[02:31:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I did find one of the guys on Instagram, and people were asking, and it seems to me like there are areas where they're allowed to ride their bikes.

[02:31:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[02:31:52] [SPEAKER_04]: It must be easy to find, but let's circle back on that one.

[02:31:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like I looked it up one time, Stomp, and it was as clear as mud.

[02:31:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[02:32:01] [SPEAKER_05]: So if anybody knows or anybody has an opinion, reach out to us for sure.

[02:32:05] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[02:32:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Cool.

[02:32:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And then this next one, Stomp, is a hiker fatality on Kinsman Ridge Trail.

[02:32:12] [SPEAKER_05]: So we heard about this one.

[02:32:13] [SPEAKER_05]: This happened on August 6th.

[02:32:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Always a tough story.

[02:32:17] [SPEAKER_05]: So Fishing Games notified of a hiker that was having a medical emergency between the summits of North and South Peak.

[02:32:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Again, this is way out there.

[02:32:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Tough spot.

[02:32:28] [SPEAKER_05]: So medical emergency between North and South Peak, four miles from the nearest trailhead.

[02:32:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Very difficult to get a response team out there.

[02:32:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Due to the severities here, New Hampshire Army National Guard was called to see if they could assist.

[02:32:43] [SPEAKER_05]: In addition to the Blackhawk request AMC staff, which is a little bit close to that lonesome lake, they were able to respond with medical equipment.

[02:32:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And eventually conservation officers and Pemi Valley Search and Rescue were able to respond.

[02:32:56] [SPEAKER_05]: And medics from the Army National Guard Blackhawk team were able to reach the distressed hiker at 3.55.

[02:33:02] [SPEAKER_05]: So not bad.

[02:33:03] [SPEAKER_05]: 2.15, the call comes in.

[02:33:05] [SPEAKER_05]: The Army National Guard team is there before 4 o'clock.

[02:33:09] [SPEAKER_05]: And they continued life-saving measures that the family members and other Good Samaritan hikers had started until they were able to transport the victim to a waiting ambulance from Littleton Rescue and Fire.

[02:33:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately, the hiker succumbed to his medical emergency.

[02:33:26] [SPEAKER_05]: A 52-year-old hiker from Topsfield, Mass., was hiking with his family.

[02:33:31] [SPEAKER_05]: So rough story all around.

[02:33:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, there's really, it's just a tough, tough spot to be in and you just never know.

[02:33:37] [SPEAKER_05]: But my advice to people, especially I'm 52 years old, Stomp, you're even older than I am and frailer than I am.

[02:33:45] [SPEAKER_05]: But my advice to people is like, don't skip your medical physicals.

[02:33:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Make sure that you're talking to your doctor about cardiology, fitness and getting those tests and getting those life scans and things like that.

[02:33:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Because you never know what, I don't know if this was a heart attack or whatnot, but it just makes me think like, if you're an older 50-something man, you should definitely get checked out for that stuff.

[02:34:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.

[02:34:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:34:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, 100% agree.

[02:34:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Circling back, first glance about mountain biking, it looks like it's okay, except for wilderness areas.

[02:34:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think so too.

[02:34:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Wild.

[02:34:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[02:34:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it looks like it's okay.

[02:34:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, there's some basic things like don't cut switchbacks, don't create hill climbs, you know, know the etiquette for people ascending.

[02:34:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Wild.

[02:34:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:34:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.

[02:34:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

[02:34:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how I feel about that.

[02:34:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:34:42] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[02:34:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, why don't you take the next two weeks to think about it and then we'll be back on August 30th with a new, cool, awesome episode.

[02:34:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Sounds good.

[02:34:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Very good.

[02:34:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Over and out.

[02:35:00] [SPEAKER_12]: Thank you for listening.

[02:35:01] [SPEAKER_12]: If you enjoyed the show, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podbean, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[02:35:11] [SPEAKER_12]: If you want to learn more about the topics covered in today's show, please check out the show notes and safety information at slasherpodcast.com.

[02:35:21] [SPEAKER_12]: That's S-L-A-S-R podcast.com.

[02:35:26] [SPEAKER_12]: You can also follow the show on Facebook and Instagram.

[02:35:29] [SPEAKER_12]: We hope you'll join us next week for another great show.

[02:35:33] [SPEAKER_12]: Until then, on behalf of Mike and Stomp, get out there and crush some mega peaks.

[02:35:41] [SPEAKER_12]: Now covered in scratches, blisters, and bug bites, Chris Staff wanted to complete his most challenging day hike ever.

[02:35:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Fish and game officers say the hiker from Florida activated an emergency beacon yesterday morning.

[02:35:55] [SPEAKER_07]: He was hiking along the Appalachian Trail when the weather started to get worse.

[02:36:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Officials say the snow was piled up to three feet in some spots and there was a wind chill of minus one degree.

[02:36:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's try this race.

[02:36:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Do we all know what they are?

[02:36:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh!

[02:36:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Lieutenant James Neeland from New Hampshire Fish and Game.

[02:36:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Louisiana, thanks for being with us today.

[02:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me.

[02:36:19] [SPEAKER_00]: What are some of the most common mistakes you see people make when they're heading out on the trails to hike here in New Hampshire?

[02:36:24] [SPEAKER_13]: Seems to me the most common is being unprepared.

[02:36:26] [SPEAKER_13]: I think if they just simply visited Hikesafe.com and got a list of the 10 essential items and had those in their packs,

[02:36:32] [SPEAKER_13]: they probably would have no need to ever call us at all.